Should He Stay or Should He Go

Bryson Akins and Henry Brown have a lengthy discussion over if Bilal Coulibaly has a future in DC anymore. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

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SPEAKER_05 0:35

Joined alongside, as always, with Henry Brown. Ladies and gentlemen, it's uh we got we got some we got some thoughts to discuss today. Our Slack got heated. Oh, our Slack group chat for work got heated a little bit as I decided, and I don't know if it's up yet. I can check real quick if it's up, but I decided to write an article about Bilal Kulabali. Love him, hate him, whatever you may feel about him. I'm neutral because, like I said, you know, like I try to stay unbiased when I'm writing about our guys. I like I do, like it's not ill will towards him, it's not like I'm writing him about him out of pure spite if I write badly and I did write badly about him. Oh, I will be clear about that. But it's time to have a discussion. What is Bilal's future on this team? What is it? Because I I don't see a future for him.

SPEAKER_04 1:24

I'm gonna be honest, I don't see a future for him on this team, and I do, and that's why I I figured that we should just have like this old school debate style once and for all, because we've been tiptoeing around it for a few months. Um, because I don't think he's cooked goods, he's too impactful a defender, and he's too young for me to just throw in the towel on this guy.

SPEAKER_05 1:44

It's just I get he's young, he's 21 years old. I get it. He's 21 years old. I I I get that. I understand he's young, okay? I I completely get it, but this is his third season by now. You have to see a leap from him. You do, and like, yes, I get he's a good defensive player. He is like we can talk about it. He ended the Giannis era in Milwaukee technically, if you want to get you know in the deep dive of that. Defensively, he's been good. I won't deny that. Offensively, though, oh my goodness, he's like a pile of dog poop that someone just burns and leaves at your front door out of spite.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

If the other guy's not bad offensively, I so this is what I thought you were gonna say. So I think you know, I'm gonna let you go first, because you already you already got going. I figure you give your you give your argument here, yeah, and I'll go back and then we can rebut. So, as you were, you just started uh bag of dogs.

SPEAKER_05 2:33

And like I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about you know like what I kind of wrote in the article as well. I I mentioned how basketball is a game built on runs when you think about it. But basketball is a game built on runs. You can win a game because you go on a 20-point run in the third quarter. You can also lose a game because you give up a 15-point run in the fourth quarter. Stuff like that. We know this. Players have bad stretches of play, all right. Little runs where it's like they don't do well whatsoever. Cool of Bali, though, this has been like 80 games of a bad stretch where he's just not looked good. Last season, he didn't look good. Yes, he averaged 12.4 points per game, but he like the efficiency was just terrible. He was shooting below 40% from the field, 28% from three. And you would think this season, after, you know, okay, getting adjusted, Jordan Poole's off the team, you know, like a bunch of other guys are just shot chuckers. It just kind of felt like he had to get a shot off a little bit. Maybe it changes around a little bit. He's worse this season. He he's been worse this season. He's averaging eight points per game on less efficiency at 35.7 from the field, and then his three-point percentage, he's taken the same amount of shots as last year, and he's averaging 24% from three, below 25 on the same amount of shots per game from distance. And like, it's just I get it. The defense, he's still young, maybe he can improve a little bit. It's his third season, he's due for an extension coming up. All right, you just gotta come up with these decisions a little bit, and I also mention you gotta look at the injuries, too. He he can't stay healthy at this point. It's like it's like he plays two games two games and he misses five games at this point, is what it feels like.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

Yeah, it's I'm not gonna defend some of the shooting stuff, but what I will defend is he does have a bum wrist, which we know. And I think he's the kind of guy who needs a certain kind of context. He's a role player at this point. We know that. He was picked like seventh or eighth, I can't remember in the lottery in the 2023. Um, he's a role player, he's a he's a high-level role player, uh, I think is his ceiling. Um, and I think he's one of those guys who needs context, he needs a point guard. He's lost in the half court a lot of the time, but I don't think that means that it's over for him. I think that just means he needs a bit of direction and someone to just feed him on the cut. Um, he's athletic, find him at the rim. Um and I just think that this situation is a little too complex to just look at him and say it's not like it's not like he's like some crap shooter next to LeBron. You're like, all right, this guy's his made for the bright lights. Like, I think this is just it's it's a it's a weird context to evaluate a player, especially when the injuries, you're right, they do matter. Um, but I don't think that just because he is hurt all the time means that he's like not long for the team. Because you mentioned earlier, we know he's young. Will Dawkins also knows he's young. He said at the pre-media day thing, we know this guy, he's 21, we're giving him plenty of time. Um, and I think that they're gonna be a lot pay a lot more patient with him than some of the fans will be, even though it has been a rockier road than a lot of us expected.

SPEAKER_05 5:30

Look, and he he had a decent start to, you know, like when he finally got back from Aaron Drini. 16 points against the Thunder. Do you take that? It's just he really like hasn't looked great shooting-wise, like efficiency. Like, even a game, you know, like his best game so far came against the Knicks. He had 15 points, 5'11, pretty good. Like, you take that. It came in a loss, a close loss, but like you take this kind of stuff, but then you look at some other games, it's like, oh man, oh for five today against the Celtics, oh for three from three, one of six against Toronto, one oh for five from three, oh for three from three against Atlanta. Uh last night against the Spurs, oh for four, one of seven from the field, one of five against Philadelphia, oh for three, three for nine against Milwaukee, oh uh one for four from three. Like, it's just this has been a common theme now where it's like he started off hot and it was like, okay, that's solid, but like even against the magic, he had 10 points. He went three of 10 from the field. That's horrible. That that's like it's just the shooting isn't there, he's not efficient. And like, I get what you meant of like maybe you know he needs to keep slashing, point guard finds him on the cut, maybe, maybe, but Kulabali is not as like the archetype that I feel like the Wizards are trying to build with him is not a slashing kind of guy. Three and D. Yeah, oh that's almost what it feels like to me, what they're trying to build out of him. What three and D guy is shooting below 30% from the field? The only way I can see this season being salvaged for him and him actually getting a nice contract extension coming up here soon, because it is coming up soon. You have to make a decision, you know. It's like, man, do we want to extend him right now, or do we want to play it risky and have him be a restricted free agent, us lose a bunch of like, you know, bargaining ground, he gets disgruntled, unhappy with us, you know, like that's not gonna help out the locker room whatsoever. You got to come up with that decision, especially a young guy like him. And the only way I see that happening is if he somehow turns around and starts shooting 38% from three to finish out the year, and I don't see that happening.

SPEAKER_04 7:28

That's above league average. I don't see that happening either. Um, I do, however, not agree with the idea that he's gonna be a three and D guy. I think that any three he gives will sort of be icing on the cake. I think he's a defensive specialist who's really athletic and can just be awesome in transition. That's probably a more realistic idea of what we're looking at. And I think if he became a consistent version of that, we'll be happy. But when I talked about him not really smoothly fitting into what they're doing, he's taking almost half his shots from three this season. And that doesn't help when he's not hitting any of them. So I think that he just they're letting him try things, they're letting him go out there and just see what he's got. But I think after a while, he hasn't played that many. Has he played 15 games yet this season? Like he hasn't played 13.

SPEAKER_05 8:06

He hasn't he's barely played half of them.

SPEAKER_04 8:08

Yeah, so they're still, I think just let seeing what he's gotten after a while, they're gonna narrow him down. I think it's gonna be a they it's been a long process with him so far, and you know, this isn't gonna get shorter anytime soon.

SPEAKER_05 8:18

I'm just I'm like I'm frustrated at this point because I feel like there are players that sh, you know, I say should be that have been playing better that I think should get the opportunity to start over him to see like, hey, what happens? I mentioned to you earlier when we were texting, maybe move Balado the bench and see if he's just better coming off the bench. His best season so far was as a rookie when he barely started any games.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

Yeah, that team had like you know a few more pros. I think Denny was still on that team. Um, they had Kuzma, uh, pool. Uh, but I I think before they do that, they're probably gonna just keep fluctuating his role in the starting lineup. They're probably gonna keep giving more power to the to the other ball handlers. Then I think if that flops too, they're gonna move to the bench. And and I'm I'm all for trying to change his role to see what works because it's no use just trading a player out there if the the the tried and true method isn't working for anyone.

SPEAKER_05 9:08

I'm just I'm I'm just really frustrated because I I'm looking at you know the stats for the team. Bulal Kulubali, who is you know, he he started every game he's played this season. 13. There are guys that haven't even gotten a start yet that are averaging more points than him.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

He's on a score. Makes sense. Or tell me about Whitmore.

SPEAKER_05 9:27

But like it's uh Whitmore's averaging more than him. Whitmore's also out of the rotation, like completely. He's out of the rotation, but like it's still frustrating with Bilal Kulabali, who is supposed to be one of your guys, averaging the fifth most minutes on this team, is I think ninth or tenth in points per game right now for you. Like, I I get the defense. I I truly do. I love defense. You know, I covered the Thunder last year. I love defense, I do. He is a great defender. Don't get me wrong. I don't care though if you're limiting teams to 110 points, if you can't even help your team crack a hundred points.

SPEAKER_04 10:08

It's tough. I I don't think he needs to be a star. I just I don't know. Like, he's not a good thing. I'm not saying he should be a star. Like, do you did you know the Wizards actually are better with him uh on offense and defense on the floor? Like, he actually doesn't hurt the offense as much as you think. Um, with him on, I'm gonna read this right, these numbers are really small. Um, they have an offensive rating of it's like one point higher on offense and one point lower on defense. So I think that there's so much room for improvement that even in this version, he's still not hampering them as much as we think he is.

SPEAKER_05 10:41

I just it's frustrating. Like, I am just really frustrated by it because going into this, I've heard so much hype about Bilal. I have. I've heard Bilal has hype because he's athletic, he's you know, he has a long wingspan, he's a great defender. The shooting, there have been signs of the shooting being there, especially his rookie season. I remember, you know, Eurobasket watching him play for France there before he got injured. Like he looked good. I was really hyped to watch him, but now he's come back, he's constantly getting injured. He plays two games, he's off two games. He plays two games, he's off two games. Like, it's like every other day he has something new going on, and it's it's frankly, I'm just like I'm I'm done with this shit, frankly. Like, it's like it's just annoying.

SPEAKER_04 11:25

I I I think he's got more time in the tank. It's definitely the injuries are frustrating. There's I mean, you said it plenty of times already in this podcast. Uh nothing worse than a guy who you just feel can't get out of his own way, but uh the road's long.

SPEAKER_05 11:36

And I I would rather have Will Riley start. I'm gonna go in and say I'd rather have Will Riley start over Bilal at this point.

SPEAKER_04 11:43

I mean, there's gonna be a point where that's not ridiculous. We're we're sort of heading towards that now, especially if he's gonna be unavailable. But he he's he's you need these high field guys. I wouldn't hate that down the road, but I think that Bilal deserves a bit more time.

SPEAKER_05 11:56

It's just ugh. Like I said, uh there was I had so much hope and hype go for him going into the season. Maybe, maybe we've talked about it, you know. Maybe he does better coming off the bench. Maybe he brings high energy, maybe he thrives against second units, but against other teams first units, he doesn't really do much offensively. You mentioned the plus one. How much of that is because he's been on you know the floor with runs? Because I don't like using offensive rating and defensive rating to evaluate a player's you know impact on a team because it's a team-based stat cumulative of what your teammates also do.

SPEAKER_04 12:28

No, those were just his on off splits.

SPEAKER_05 12:31

And so, yeah, but still, like it's not I'm I'm not too impressed by a one-point difference.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

One point I yeah, you're right, but I'm saying that's with him giving as little on offense as he ever ever has.

SPEAKER_05 12:44

That's it's not just put that like if he could just become a 43-32 split guy, maybe this team, like when he has played, because there have been a bunch of games that have been kind of close where he has looked absolutely you know, dog. Like, yeah, you're but that's that's the point I'm making.

SPEAKER_04 13:03

That that he's shown that you can if he has that kind of ceiling that's this is his third season, though.

SPEAKER_05 13:07

This is his third season, and it's just he's you know, players usually in their third season look much better compared to their rookie year, or at least are serviceable on offense. He does not, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 13:20

You're right that it doesn't always look this gnarly sometimes, but other players also aren't usually in this spot. Three straight years of rebuilding, not a whole lot of guys can just clearly prevail over that sort of situation, especially again when no one's creating for you on a consistent basis. You mentioned Jordan Poole and uh Bub last year as his point guards. Those guys aren't weren't really point guards, and they weren't really creating on a consistent basis for for any other teammates. Uh and I just I don't know, he's he's he's in a weird spot. It takes a real player to to rise above that kind of context.

SPEAKER_05 13:50

It's just like I look at the stats. He was shooting 6.9 shots per game his rookie season, 43% from the field. He's shooting 7.5 this season, shooting 35.7% from the field. He's making less shots this season compared to his rookie season, even though he's taking more shots. That shouldn't that shouldn't be a thing. That like frankly, if I'm being honest, that shouldn't be happening.

SPEAKER_04 14:15

A lot of season left, and I don't think he's gonna end up shooting 46% of his shots from three throughout the whole season, like he has so far. They're probably gonna keep narrowing down his role, I would assume.

SPEAKER_05 14:26

Like I said, it's it's it's annoying because we've talked about it, and I know the potential is there, but at some point you have to realize, especially, and I mentioned it in my article too. This draft coming up, how much forward talent is there that can easily replace Kulabali? As far as replacing a starting spot, plenty. Like that's that's my point. Let's say the Wizards go out and draft Boozer or Dubansa. Let's say that happens, all right. You will then have to figure out who is your two of your three last starters between because it's going to be Keyshawn, of course. All right, it's going to be Sarr. Who else is going to be in there? I would assume.

SPEAKER_04 15:05

I'm glad you brought this up. Bubber Trey is probably going to duke it out for one of the starting spots.

SPEAKER_05 15:09

Yeah, but like, because you're, you know, whoever you take, you know, with your first pick is going to start. Let's be honest. Top three pick. You get one of Peterson, Boozer Debonsa. Let's say it's Boozer Debonsa for this scenario because of Bilal. So you get Boozer, Sarr, Boozer, and uh Keyshawn are going to be starting. And then your last two of three spots, duking it out as a starter, is going to be Bub, Trey, and Bilal. And with how Bub has stepped it up lately, I would rather have Bub if he continues to do this.

SPEAKER_04 15:39

For spacing reasons, I don't think Balal's in that conversation because you're talking about guards at this point. Like Keyshawn, um, and I'm gonna assume Boozard or AJ, like you said, and Sarr.

SPEAKER_05 15:48

Trey, Trey, not AJ, Trey Johnson. Or no, AJ DeMonsa is what you meant. My bad.

SPEAKER_04 15:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, AJ DeMonte. Um, so I'd assume it's it's it's Trey or or Bub for that last guard spot. And who knows, maybe Riley. But I don't think Bilal's in the in the conversation for for his basing purposes at least.

SPEAKER_05 16:04

I just I I like I said, the future, when I'm looking at the future of this team with the draft picks, because there's also the chance that they can trade up in the draft and take you know another good player, and we've talked about it before. There's some good guards that are going to drop because of how much forward talents in this class and how many teams are looking to have forwards now for their future. You're gonna get a guard like Acuff drop out of the lottery that you can easily trade up for. Darius Acuff is a starter right now for a lot of teams that are trying to rebuild. Darius Acuff could be the starting point guard for the Wizards, and he wouldn't be a star by any means, but he would help space out the floor, help Dishi out a little bit, help find guys that are open, like Boozer, Saar, and um oh Keyshawn, help them out a ton. Where then it does move where it's like Balal is coming off the bench at that point. It's just the future of this team. When I look at the draft picks, you know, future, you know, outside the 2026 as well. It is really hard to you know give a good reason why Koulibaly should remain as a key part of this team going forward. And like you said, he's not gonna he's not a star role player, but even then, he could he could demand a decent amount of money because of how high he was taken, because of his defense. Would that be better used somewhere else? Probably.

SPEAKER_04 17:17

Well, if you go back to the last two extensions that the Wizards signed uh their guys to, it was Denny and Corey Kispert. And those were like pretty manageable deals. Um, I think if you signed Bilal to that sort of deal, it would be like some of us would be would be nervous. I can see you being extremely apprehensive about that. But if you just look at like what did Denny make? It was like four years these are like really tradable contracts. It's four years fifty-five million, yeah. And he was he was drafted around the same part of the draft that uh Balal was. It was also pretty hairy at the beginning for him. And kiss what's making almost identical money, four years fifty-four million. I think if if Bilal signs that kind of deal, it wouldn't be like a franchise killer, it would be interesting.

SPEAKER_05 17:58

It wouldn't be a franchise killer. I just they're they're like at because it's so much money to burn. So much money, like you have to spend some money, I get it, but I also look at it and it's like, man, like he's the future of this team. I really am struggling to find a reason why he sticks around. Because by 2027, if he continues to play like he is right now, he's not even the top 10 player on this team, he's out of the rotation. That's why I am so apprehensive to him because he does he has to prove something to me here. He and I know I don't make the decisions, I know I don't make the roster changes or moves or any of that stuff. I understand that. But like for me, I am almost completely out on Balal Kulabali because he he can't score. He I get he is limiting players to like 20 points per game. Like, shut down, Giannis. I get that. It doesn't matter to me if you can't score more than 10 points per game as a starter. It doesn't matter to me.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

Not everyone is meant to be that kind of guy who can pull a bucket out of their butt. Like he might just be a system guy on offense, and that's okay.

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SPEAKER_05 19:37

Like I said, it is just annoying. Thanks. She was climbing on the back of my chair because she heard me yelling. You don't like Balal Coolbali being a starter right now either, do you? No, look at those eyes. She doesn't. Oh like I said, it's just the offense is such a killer for me. Okay. It it's such a killer. I can't like so I sometimes when I see him put up a shot, it visibly makes me want to throw up.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

So you're like not interested at all in what could happen if he were paired with a table setter.

SPEAKER_05 20:08

Uh at this point, no, because like I'm like I said, I'm just sold out. I I'm just sold. Like it's it's gonna be very hard for someone to convince me why he deserves to stay on this team for the future. It's it's gonna be really difficult.

SPEAKER_04 20:21

I can see him flourishing with someone who can actually set him up. He's shooting second, he's second back-to-back season, he's shooting like over 73-ish percent, like right at the bucket. Um, he's athletic, he can get there, he can get up there. He's fast. I can just see him working as well.

SPEAKER_05 20:35

So, how often is he gonna be able to get down there, especially with some of the player?

SPEAKER_04 20:38

Well, if there's someone to actually like help him on like a pick and roll, he can be like, I don't know, someone who can jump off a screen. That's pretty feasible, right?

SPEAKER_05 20:46

I just don't really, I really just don't see it. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 20:49

I just all we need is just a coach to institute that sort of thing, and a player to put him in that position.

SPEAKER_05 20:55

Man, I just we we could go on for this for hours, but we should probably.

SPEAKER_04 21:00

Glad glad we uh glad we burned some juice there. And I'm glad you talked about uh potential lineups because I think that's been a hot topic recently.

SPEAKER_05 21:07

Um my thing is I I I I just want to finish on this. I I want to see him coming off the bench just to see if he truly is better coming off the bench, like we saw his rookie season, where we saw glimpses of potential in him, where it's like, man, he could he could really be something. Maybe coming off the bench, he is a more efficient shooter and is actually averaging more points per game. Maybe maybe that's the case. That's why I'm saying have him come off the bench, and if he does play better, that's what could salvage be like, okay, keep him as a role player off the bench, keep him as like a seventh, eighth man. Then I'm fine with that. It's just as a starter, at this point, I am out.

SPEAKER_04 21:41

Starter, reserve, it doesn't matter. I think the difference is is someone actually helping set up his shots. And if that happens off the bench, then so be it. If he finds that kind of role. Um, I don't think just should determining what part of the game he comes into um will necessarily push his game forward as much as the right scenery will.

SPEAKER_05 22:00

Yeah, it's that's where we stand.

SPEAKER_04 22:03

Oh no, I doubt how this is gonna change your mind anytime soon. No, probably not. But but but but but a few guys have caught our eyes recently in a good way. Yes. Um because even I will because some of the crapple all shooting stuff recently. Um Will Riley, for one, uh is someone who I think is gonna challenge a starting spot at some point soon for Riley. Give it up for Riley. That high feel at that size. Um and at first he looked uncomfortable in the bigs. Uh he's sort of a frail dude, he's 6'10, really skinny. Um, he's one of the guys you could probably put your like connect your fingers around his forearm if you wanted to, uh like they used to in school. Uh, but as he as he keeps getting more and more time, he looks more comfortable when he's the pick and roll operator. He's finding these interior dump-off passes, he's spraying out, he's showing effort, and he looks like an NBA player now, more than ever before. What do you think?

SPEAKER_05 22:53

And hey, yeah, yeah, no, and first off, shout out Will Riley. I've really loved him so far this season. He's looking like he can be a seal of the draft. The Wizards keep on giving him some more time here. I really like his game. People have talked about can we find a point guard? I know he is really, really big, but he he could run that point guard position pretty decently, in my opinion, because he's smart enough to kind of dish it out like that. And so I I would be intrigued to see what happens as you know, him as a point guard, as he's even mentioned from time to time before, where like he feels like he can play any position where it's like he's not defined by you know his size on the court, where it's like, yeah, he's you know, like six foot ten right now. He still wants to run the point guard position because he thinks he can run it well, and I think he could as well, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 23:35

He's so young, so I I totally 19.

SPEAKER_05 23:42

And like you know, he's he's also got a great support group, which also helps you as an NBA player. Like, let's his his mom's been defending him on the timeline all the time. She's been really active. Shout out, Tracy.

SPEAKER_04 23:54

Yes, you saw the Wizards' mom's trip to San Diego.

SPEAKER_05 23:56

Yeah, they took hey that that's why I love to see.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

That's what it they're a young team, they don't have wives yet.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

No, no, and like it's a good support system that they got going on over there. And I really like Will Riley, really like his game, really think he's gonna be good. Just let's see. You know, like I I want to see him in the starting lineup. I do. I want I want to see him as a starter.

SPEAKER_04 24:18

Yeah, and uh Minnie Riley, Bubbington. Good starting. Also quietly getting inside. He's actually like taking they're very finessey, but he is taking more shots at the rim. Um, and he's still got the three, and he just he he looks like himself again. It's been a real relief to see.

SPEAKER_05 24:35

My my my problem with bub was never the three-point shot like it was with Bilal. It was never because this season, if you like dude, this season he's shooting 41% from three, and he's taking almost you know, like he's taking 4.2 attempts per game. Like that's I I'll take that all day. That's almost half his shots being made right there. 1.7 out of 4.2. I love that. Go ahead, keep shooting the three ball. My problem was never the three ball, it was the mid-range game where it's like, hey, if you're gonna shoot the mid-range, at this point, just step back a few feet and take a three instead because the mid-range was never there. It was he was always doing well around the rim and he was always doing well behind the three-point line. It was just that mid-range, that like 15 to 20 foot range. For some reason, he just couldn't figure it out from that range.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

Yeah, but we figured it was only a matter of time. That was his bread and butter in college and as a rookie. So that's not the kind of shot that like you can really build your game around in 2025. But it's the mid-range, get where you're get where you're comfortable. As long as it's just this this thing that can just help you get your game off, um, then go for it. Take those shots and you're making them, keep doing it.

SPEAKER_05 25:38

Oh, yeah, he's he's looked much better the past few games. Like, he had 27 against Cleveland. Like that was a really good one. 10 of 20 from the field, five of 13 from three, like really crushed it, eight assists as well. He also had 14 and 9 against Atlanta. Love to see that as well. And he wasn't taking a lot of shots. He took four six shots, went three or four from deep. Like, it's you know, like it's not like he was taking a lot of shots that game. Um, and the loss against the Spurs, 15 points, three assists, five boards, six to twelve in the field, three to seven from three. It's just the past few games, he's really stepped it up. And if you notice, what's been the trend with him these past few games? He's been starting. I think he is just naturally better as a starter than off the bench, and like it's the complete opposite of how I feel about Balal. I think he's just better coming off the bench as like a six-man role than as a starter, and so I've been really impressed with him as a starter, and there's been a lot of games he's started where he he has looked good. The game against Milwaukee, 11 points, four of nine, three of four, first game of the season, looked really solid as a starter there. Against Dallas, didn't do much offensively, but defensively, he was all over the place and dishing out the rock well, still, you know, was able to get them a win. It's like as a starter, you notice a little bit, he's a better player as a starter than he is coming off the bench.

SPEAKER_04 26:57

He's a rhythm guy. We knew that he just sort of needed the ball in his hands to really feel good, as fun as some of the the shooting numbers were at the start. I'm sorry, like the three-point shooting numbers were at the start of the season. We knew that he was just not as useful as just a spot up guy. Um, the comp I saw for him as a rookie before the Wizards actually traded for him was like a mini, like a small, more contact-diverse Chris Middleton, actually. The way that he just sort of had the three, the mid-range, drive, kick, um, pass from the top, be like a part-time point guard, because even then we didn't think Bub was like a real point guard. Middleton like is a good passer, but he was never a point guard. Um so the fact that you're seeing him comfortably get to his spots, I think, has been more valuable than seeing him post sort of empty, efficient, but low volume three-point numbers, like early. Like he was making his threes early on, but he was taking like two a game, and defenses weren't respecting him. So you're seeing him actually be a factor. That's what's been more important than he's actually been like featured in these games. He hasn't been invisible because I feel like he was for the first month of the season.

SPEAKER_05 27:59

Yeah, it's it's definitely interesting, kind of looking at how he's played a little bit. And and like I said, the problem has never been his three-point shot or around the bucket. It was always a mid-range game, and he was taking a lot of mid-range jump shots. He was, yep, and that's why I feel like people were kind of sold out on him. Once you saw him taking more threes or attacking to the rim more often, that's when you started to notice, like, man, like he's actually, you know, pretty good. Like the the 2024 draft class, they have been doing really good when they've been trying to get to their spots, doing what they're comfortable doing. You notice we're like, that's the potential right there around those three guys, get a you know, first overall pick this year, get Boozer to Bonser Peterson, add that one of those guys in the mix. You have a squad coming up.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

You do, right? So it's really Trey's Trey's been a bit banged up, um, hasn't been quite honest since he came back. But his fellow draft classmates, as you said, Riley and uh Watkins have both been big pluses in the rotation. Um, and there's one last thing from this game I wanted to ask you about because uh Sarr faced against Wemby yesterday, and it was a pretty good matchup where Wemby definitely got the better of him. He didn't play a ton of minutes. Um he probably played like under 20 minutes, but when he was there, he was just there's just there's levels to this kind of game. And Sarr did get like a really nice block on him, but what did you see from that kind of matchup?

SPEAKER_05 29:18

Um of course, you know, Wemby's gonna be Wemby. All right, minutes restriction coming off the bench. He only played 17 minutes, but he still had 15 points, 6 of 11 from the field. Like he still was a nightmare to kind of play against four blocks, eight rebounds. Like that's insane. He did that in only 17 minutes. But Alex Tsar wasn't a bad game for him coming back, coming off of entry. 24 minutes, he got 18 points, eight of 18 from the field, two of four from three, which like he's not taking as many threes this season, but he's knocking down more. I feel like I feel like he's just gotten a little bit more comfortable just with the ball in his hands, and I think that's kind of natural as a second-year guy. It's just other than that, I feel like down low, the interior, rebounding-wise, couldn't really do much, which really like if you if you look at the numbers, I mean the rebounds really hurt this team.

SPEAKER_04 30:10

But you notice even when he's going against these big guys in the front court, he's not scared anymore. He's it's not just that he's not scared, it's like when he's going up, he's like physically not scared. He he stays upright when he hangs. Like, there was one where he called bankers where he could have fallen back, but he just kept and like he didn't like double clutch, but he just sort of hung, uh, waited for his moment, got his shot off, and he's he's sturdy. He's playing sturdy.

SPEAKER_05 30:33

He's confident, that's what I'm seeing. Yeah, he was playing really confident. And I feel like last year, first year in the league, trying to get used to a new system. You know, the team wasn't really asking to be an inside threat. He was more to be an outside threat, and that's not Alex Tarr. Yeah, he's got to be an interior presence a little bit there, and but he'll you know he'll he'll make you pay if you leave him open from three. He he definitely will. And so he's just more comfortable. He's finally playing the position, and you know, type of basketball he's known to play. You know, it's just it's confidence. He he looks like a confident player, and dare I say he looks like an all-star.

SPEAKER_04 31:09

He does, he looks like an all-star. I agree with you.

SPEAKER_05 31:11

Um, he's definitely what centers in the east are playing better than him? East is pretty thin. Um but you see what like off the top of your head, because like I can give I'll give you cat. Yes, cat, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:26

Uh yeah, yeah, cat. Not by as much as it was last year.

SPEAKER_05 31:30

Not by as much as no.

SPEAKER_04 31:33

It's just so thin out east. Uh quietly, Durin is playing really well.

SPEAKER_05 31:42

Those are the only two that I can think, like, because I will give you Durin. Bam?

SPEAKER_04 31:47

How's Bam's stats?

SPEAKER_05 31:50

Are they better? I don't think they're better than let's see.

SPEAKER_04 31:56

Honestly, they line up really evenly with Sar. In fact, they're actually extremely even with Sar. That's really good.

SPEAKER_05 32:04

They are they are really even. I think Sar's been better than Christoph's because you also gotta take defense into account. And he hasn't played better, he's been better than Embiid because Embiid doesn't play and he's not a great defender.

SPEAKER_04 32:15

Gosh.

SPEAKER_05 32:16

So like I look at it, the only two only two I really give you are Durham because he's been good interior-wise, and he's also been phenomenal defensively.

SPEAKER_04 32:25

And he's on the one seed.

SPEAKER_05 32:26

And he's on the one seed, so of course that's gonna help you out a little bit. Giannis is on the center. He's a he's a four.

SPEAKER_04 32:32

You're right.

SPEAKER_05 32:33

He's a four, and then I'd give you cat, but then even then his defense makes it where it's kind of close.

SPEAKER_04 32:40

I know we're forgetting someone. Who are we forgetting?

SPEAKER_05 32:42

I can't think of I'm looking at the list and it's like no.

SPEAKER_04 32:46

A lot of bad centers. A lot of bad teams and a lot of centers. Not bad, but like guys who you might not know are starters.

SPEAKER_05 32:53

Mobley, I think he's been better than Mobley.

SPEAKER_04 32:56

Oh, I think of Allen as the yeah. Um, oh, the Mobley. Let me look at the Mobley comparison. That's actually really interesting.

SPEAKER_05 33:02

I just like I just look at it and I don't really see a ton of centers better than him in the East, and this is why I think he's an all-star. I mean, like right now, SARS averaging 19 and 8 with what two blocks a game, I think.

SPEAKER_04 33:12

Uh Mobley, I might have the edge. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. Um shooting 49.6% from the field, 35.2 from three, uh, 19 points a game, nine boards, and his blocks are he's like 1.6. SAR is like 1.9.

SPEAKER_05 33:32

So that's actually like SARS 1.9. SAR is shooting it better from the field. How many threes is uh Mobley taking perfectly? More than I thought over four a game. Really? Yeah. Okay. I was probably what he's got him that one is he's got him beat in the three-point category and rebounding's rebounding by just a small margin. That's it. That's it. It's just many. And again, SAR is covering a lot of holes on defense as well, as we know.

SPEAKER_04 33:56

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:56

And so I just think I think SARS has been playing like an all-star. There's not many centers better than him in the, you know, even in the NBA when I really think about it. He's definitely a top 10 center right now.

SPEAKER_04 34:06

Oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_05 34:07

Hold on, we can do this. Uh because you think you think out west, of course, you got Jokic.

SPEAKER_04 34:11

Top 10. Um, of course, Jokic.

SPEAKER_05 34:14

So, like, let's let's go down the list. Jokic, Hartenstein, because one seed, best record in the NBA by a large margin. You know, and he he has been balling for OKC because I still got to keep up with my guys over there. I can bring up his stats real quick.

SPEAKER_04 34:29

Okay, I'm sorry, but naming Hartenstein second is hilarious.

SPEAKER_05 34:33

I'm not, I'm not like saying he's second like overall in the league. I'm just saying like top of my head right now. All right, let's see. Like top top of my head, Hartenstein yeah, has been playing like a top 10 center. But I do think it's kind of close between him and Sar when you look at stats. I mean, Chet's better. You could you could have started there. Uh, but is Chet a center? I I think he's a center. You think he's a center? Okay, so let's go. I'm I'm actually gonna replace Hartenstein because I think it's a lot closer when I look at the stats a little bit. Okay, because uh the reason the reason Hartenstein's been doing so well is because he's also a great facilitator for okay. That also helps. And he's on a kickbutt team, so that helps out. So let's go Jokic, Chet, Wemby. All right, those three for sure. Um we mentioned uh Duran over in Detroit, which I I will give you that one.

SPEAKER_04 35:25

Uh I think zoo as well. You might not like that one. Yeah, Zubak.

SPEAKER_05 35:29

I don't mind it.

SPEAKER_04 35:30

I like I like Zubak.

SPEAKER_05 35:31

So there's five. We had one more over in the east. Oh my goodness. Um Cat.

SPEAKER_04 35:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:37

Six right there.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

This gets nasty, man. I'm looking at this list.

SPEAKER_05 35:40

I he's been better than Gobert.

SPEAKER_04 35:44

I don't hate that. Yeah. There's some guys who like were good. Like, I don't think I'm he's been better than Davis. Davis interesting. He's not but he's better than Sibonis. I'll give you that. He's better than Sabonis. Like, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_05 35:56

Like, right now, isn't he top ten? I think he's top ten. I think Shangun. Sangoon. So that puts him what, eighth overall then?

SPEAKER_04 36:08

I'm covering him a base. I'm still looking.

SPEAKER_05 36:10

But you you see my point. It's he's been playing much better than people are giving him credit for because he just plays on the wizards.

SPEAKER_04 36:17

Yeah. He might be wow. Yeah, there's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_05 36:20

You put him on a fringe playoff team and he's putting up these kinds of numbers.

SPEAKER_04 36:24

I won't say Sabonis, I won't say Vucevic, I won't say Definitely not Vucevic.

SPEAKER_05 36:29

Who? Aiden, no, God no.

SPEAKER_04 36:31

God knows Aiden. I won't say Jarrett Allen.

SPEAKER_05 36:36

No to Allen.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

No to Edie. I mean, would you still say Edie's interesting? I won't say him yet, but talk to me again in a month, and we might talk. We might talk there. Dude, honestly, Edie.

SPEAKER_05 36:49

I think I think Keyshawn George was playing better than Edie, but that's another conversation.

SPEAKER_04 36:54

I've dabbled with this take. I've thought about whether or not the Wizards are the two best guys in that class. Edie is really like I think I think when you look at this. I think the best guys in that class are those will be those two in Edie. I think will be the best three guys in this draft class.

SPEAKER_05 37:08

I didn't mind Edie coming out of college. I didn't mind him. Um Castle's been balling in that class as well.

SPEAKER_04 37:16

I actually think Keyshawn will be better than Castle. I was watching him last night and I was just, I just I just like what Keyshawn brings to the table more. Yes. Because last night you saw Keyshawn like unleashed a bit. He took like nine shots in the first half.

unknown 37:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:27

Um, threes weren't falling, but the bump middie was. And I was like, I'd just rather have this guy. I think Keyshawn's better on defense and he's a better decision maker. He's bigger and he's a better shooter. So after that, like what are we doing?

SPEAKER_05 37:38

I think right now, when you're looking at this draft class, right now, the top five is easily Keyshawn Saar. This is no particular order. Just naming off the top of my head. Keyshawn Saar, Castle, Edie, and then you gotta put AJ, who's six man at the year front runner right now.

SPEAKER_04 37:57

Do I have to? I guess I could. Yeah, I'm trying to think.

SPEAKER_05 37:59

Because I mean, I guess we pull up his stats real quick. He didn't really put up much in his rookie year. He was, you know, a two-way contract. He got injured early on. Let me pull up the stats and I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_04 38:12

I wouldn't say he's a he's absolutely over like Buzelis or Klingon or someone. Those guys have cases.

SPEAKER_05 38:20

Uh you ready for this? AJ's AJ's averaging 14 a game right now and 46% shooting and 35% from three, along with 1.5 steals and only 1.6 turnovers. Okay. 26 minutes of action right now.

SPEAKER_04 38:37

I'm just gonna say he's really good. We have to take account how supremely easy it has to be to play in OKC. That's the thing. Like these guys are like these these poor bastards are just like Buzales is in Chicago, uh, Klingon's in in Portland, where it's just it's Centerville. There's a bunch of big guys there trying to figure it out.

SPEAKER_05 38:57

Um I'm just I'm just saying when like you're looking at how everyone's played so far this season, that's what the top five season, this season. Yeah, I was talking about totality. In the future, in the future, let's look in five years down the line. Of course, it's gonna change. Of course.

SPEAKER_04 39:10

Yeah, I was talking about from the season and a half they've given us of content.

SPEAKER_05 39:13

Yeah, I think when you look at what AJ's done, because there are some games AJ's looked like a player who's gonna start on majority of teams in the league.

SPEAKER_04 39:21

Man, this is a weird rookie class. I remember thinking Risha Shea, I thought should have won rookie of the year over Castle, and now I can't say that takeout loud.

SPEAKER_05 39:29

Yeah. Like second game of the season, he dropped 26 on 9-19. Coming coming off the bench. Like it's like he's he's been balling. He like I think he's the favorite to win Sixth Man of the Year right now. Which it's crazy. Which like we're talking, we're talking the Wizards need a point guard. They had the opportunity to take AJ Mitchell.

SPEAKER_04 39:56

You know who actually liked for Six Man of the Year is uh Big Mitch in New York. I'm gonna keep my eye on that.

SPEAKER_05 40:02

Keep your eye on that. I said that on Twitter.

SPEAKER_04 40:04

I just talk about a big big game player, that guy.

SPEAKER_05 40:06

Hey, that that's another that's another center Sarr is playing better than it makes sense, he's a bench guy. Um But like I said, Sarr, the case for him being an all-star is definitely there. Like I definitely think Sar being an all-star is there.

SPEAKER_04 40:24

It's definitely there. Um one last thing I wanted to bring up. I forgot about this before we end this this episode. Um we lose this earlier, uh, but four straight uh DNPs from Cam Whitmore. Yeah. Hasn't played since the Boston game. Something's going on. Uh he's shooting in the five games, in the last five games he played, he was shooting under 35% from the field. Um, and 13 guys appeared in the San Antonio game, which included Anthony Gale and AJ Johnson, and that did not mean Cam Whitmore left the bench. Yeah, no, glued to a seat. So that's been as it was.

SPEAKER_05 41:01

Whatever's I don't want to comment on it right now. I I definitely don't want to comment on it right now. Well you know when you look is yeah, because when you look at when you look at the bench, he's you know, he's smiling, he's chapping it up like I saw last night and in the game, he was chapping it up with Sar and Carrington. Like he's it doesn't look like he's being a bad team meet teammate where he's just gloomy and pounding on the bench. He's still chatting. You can see like you can see signs of him still being locked into this team a little bit, and if there was truly something going on, he wouldn't have been featured in those like you know, like holiday kind of you know, give back stuff that the social media account was posting.

SPEAKER_04 41:41

Yeah, they would have made sure to leave him off if there really was something going on. Yeah, and so it hasn't been awkward or anything, or at least awkward. Uh, I will like gosh, whatever standard, all we know is whatever standard they want him to meet, he's not meeting. That's all we know right now. And hasn't changed the game.

SPEAKER_05 41:58

It could just be a practice thing.

SPEAKER_04 42:00

Maybe we don't know. Yeah, I thought we should update that story, that's all.

SPEAKER_05 42:06

Yeah, like there's not much, you know, really else to update besides like, you know, he hasn't played four games in a row now, but it's not like we know anything else. Uh, I know Varun and hey, congrats, Varun's no longer with the post. Congrats to whatever he's going off and doing. All right, it was fun keeping up your content over the Washington Post. So uh, wherever you are, we're still gonna support you no matter what, man. Keep it up, you do some good work. But I mean, he asked uh Keith the question after the second DNP, and Keith told him it was like this is the last time we're talking about it. I'm not gonna answer any more questions on this. Weird story. It's just a weird story. I think it's a nothing burger, if I'm being honest. I think I think he's gonna play again, you know, by the new year. I I do.

SPEAKER_04 42:50

He's gonna have a few games chances. There's like a half dozen games between now and then. Uh in which case, uh, you'll be making the trip down to DC. So I hope you get to cover uh person. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:01

We'll see. Still still waiting in confirmation for that, but we'll see.

SPEAKER_04 43:04

Of course. Well, if that's all, that's all I got today.

SPEAKER_05 43:07

It's all I got, too, man. That's really it. Nice content. Thank you guys. Good content, good, good debate at the beginning. Good, good argument, good argument. And then finally, we started to agree a little bit more towards the end. Only a matter of time. So oh yeah, oh yeah. But thank you guys for listening in as always, and we'll see you in the next episode. Peace.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

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