The Wiz Kids are Having Fun

Bryson Akins and Henry Brown hop on after the Wizards are turning things around in their last two games. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

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SPEAKER_04 0:30

Welcome back to All Wizards Talking Podcast on the All Sports Talk Network. I'm one of your co-hosts, Bryson Akins. Join alongside, as always, Henry Brown. Ladies and gentlemen, the Wizards, uh, at the time of recording this, they just won a basketball game, which is a rare thing to do now. But I saw an amazing stat for all of like the DC sports fans in general. If I'm gonna pull it up real quick, read it to you guys, what this stat was. And it honestly surprised me that it's true, but it is. But for the first time since November 20th, 2022, that is 1,120 days, by the way. Both the Wizards and Commanders won on the same day. Whoa!

SPEAKER_05 1:14

Oh my god. Yeah, it's it's been dark because the season before the commanders they made to the NFC Championship game. I think they had four wins the season before that. I don't even know what it was before that. Who is even the quarterback? It was Howell two seasons ago. Before that, it might have been Heineke. That might have been um the Fitzpatrick Heineke. Whatever. I'm I'm really happy for I thought the set we were gonna use was um it's the Wizards' first time holding an opponent to under 90 points since 2021 was today. No, I I didn't know that. Yeah, this was a great sports weekend, not just for the Wizards. Like every like the NBA Cup kicked major butt yesterday. Tournament was awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

As as someone that grew up in OKC, even though they lost, that was a great game.

SPEAKER_05 1:56

Great game. Like and like the commanders they won today, you said that. Uh the Ravens, who I cover, uh, had like a shutout, which was pretty, pretty fun to watch. Um, I mean, even Phil Rivers threw a touchdown. I just saw it like an hour ago.

SPEAKER_04 2:07

Old man Phillip Rivers. Yeah. Uh, how how are the Colts doing? Because I was watching that Pacers Wizards game, and dude, I don't even think they had 30% capacity today. It was mad in there.

SPEAKER_05 2:19

I I'm assuming it's because they were watching uh Rivers's uh last time out. Let me let me see. Colts, they're playing this.

SPEAKER_04 2:28

He's he's up to 100 yards right now. They're winning 13-9. Yeah, I'm I have it pulled up right now. He's up to 100 yards, 92.3 QB rating. That's it's a lot of handoffs. That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_05 2:42

A lot of Jonathan Taylor. But um, for the Wizards, this was a great weekend for them, too. It's not just that they won today against the Pacers. Um, they took the Cavs down to the wire uh just on Friday. Really competitive game. Um, they blew a fourth quarter lead, yes, but uh Bub Carrington's best game of the season. You want to start there? Oh my goodness, yeah, we 100% can.

SPEAKER_04 3:00

Bub to okay, so I want to start off. If you have been one of the guys hating on Bub Carrington, saying he needs to be traded, he's not the point guard of the future, blah, blah, blah. Why is he on this team? Why'd we trade Denny for him to move up and take him? If you're gonna criticize this much, the praise also needs to be extremely high, as Bub Carrington. And I think some of it is because he's learning a new role on this team. Last year, he was, you know, you know, a starter for majority of the games. And when he started, I feel like everyone was really high on him when he started because it was like he always played well, he dished out the ball, you know, facilitated pretty well, spaced out the floor. Of course, there's some things that you always question about. I'm like, eh, can he improve upon this? And then he, you know, this well, his first game starting the season came against the Cavs. Tough, tough team to start against. All right. He goes out there and has an amazing game, by the way.

SPEAKER_05 3:53

I'm trying to find the specific stats from that game. He had 27, I think, and I'm pretty sure he shot five for 13. He shot like I think he hit five threes in that one.

SPEAKER_04 4:02

Yeah, so Bub Carrington in um his last three games now, and the game where they got, you know, like uh it was the first game against the Hawks with the Cam Whitmore situation where he hasn't been playing 14 points and nine assists off the bench. And the game against the Cavs, his first start of the season, he had 22 points, six assists, knocking down a ton of threes as well, looking really, really good. And then today, with this, I'm trying to find the exact stats. I should probably pull up the game stats itself because I'm just seeing a bunch of highlights on the timeline. But I know he balled out today as well because I saw it on the timeline a bunch. People talking about like man, Bub Carrington, he didn't have a ton of points today.

SPEAKER_05 4:47

Actually, I have today's stats up. I was um I was more impressive with his approach because even though I I guess I'll start here. So um he's been a light out three-point shooter all season. Um, but they've they've been on pretty low volume. But you're seeing what happens when he really is more aggressive than usual because uh in the Cavs game, um, he was doing stuff inside too. It's not to say he was firing quickly, it's that he was getting to the uh the one drill pull-up in the in the mid-range. I think he was just relaxed. Yeah, like he was he was composed.

SPEAKER_04 5:15

It it was very interesting. And you like you mentioned, he didn't shoot great. I do remember immediately game started. Uh, it was Bub top the key, trying to size up his uh opponent, and then Bagley sealed off. I think it was Jay Huff, like first play of the game, sealed off Jay Huff, and Bub had a beautiful pass down low. Like it was one of those passes where the situation, okay, you can't throw it high because Huff can still get up there and potentially tip it. You have to go with a low bounce pass around your defender. He pulled that off. His playmaking has been you know great the last three games that he's played. The shooting's also gotten up there, and like the thing with Bub Carrington, I think, is people are so focused on his field goal percentage, which isn't great this season. There, there's no hiding that. It's it's not great. Right. Oh, I'm mistaken. He started seven games so far this season. I feel like he hasn't, though. Because it was a very, very, very long time since his last one. Yeah, uh, because it was early in the season, I think. But uh he's shooting 36, 36.7 from the field, but his three-point percentage has jumped from 33.9 last year to 42.2 this season, and he's taken one less attempt per game. Yeah, like it's and I think some of that is because he's not playing as much. His minutes per game have gone down from 30 to 26, so of course, you're not gonna be able to get as many shots off. And in the season last year, you know, after some trades when Jordan Poole was sitting, he was asked to shoot a little bit more as well. So I feel like his stats inflated from there. I feel like his stats are a little bit deflated because he's not playing as much, he's not starting as many games as he would have last season. I feel like people thought he would have been a starter going into this season as well. He just wasn't. Um, then injuries.

SPEAKER_05 6:54

He was a starter to start the season. That's a thing. Like he I think he was a starter. Did he start against the Bucks I'm pretty sure he was a starter for like the first like four or five games? I can't remember if he did.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

It's been so long, I can't remember. That's a thing, yeah. And so, but like and hit but like this Bub Carrington in his last three games is averaging 17.3 points per game, 3.7 rebounds, 7.3 assists, a steal. He's um making 3.33 pointers per game on 38.5 minutes. Like he's getting a lot of minutes, and these are sometimes they're like, oh, guy that's been struggling this season getting a lot of minutes. Maybe it's gonna be a ton of dumb mistakes. Today, five assists to one turnover. Like, that's pretty solid. Like, he's he looks good when he starts. It's just he didn't really have a role where like he was a true like six man last season. You rarely ever saw that with him. You saw him as a starter or a platoon swap of guys coming in with Carrington this season. It's always been like, okay, Bub's coming in right here, and then two minutes later, it's Trey and Corey coming in, and Bub wasn't really starting either. So I feel like it's just him trying to learn a new role. It's a sophomore slump. Everyone goes through them.

SPEAKER_05 8:03

Yeah. Um, and the thing is, the opportunity was there for more assists. I think Keyshawn entered the weekend leading the team in assist with like four and a half. And even though, I mean, I don't think you or I are still fully convinced that he can be the point guard of the future, Bub can average more assists than that. And what I find most interesting about his assist package is for all of the smoke that he's rightfully gotten for not being super composed under the rim, for sometimes selling out for a weird shot whenever he rarely penetrates. He's actually been really good at driving once he gets down there. He had one like wraparound pass like off the slash today that I thought was really good. Can't remember who caught it. But um, you mentioned the role he's been put in. I'm still not convinced he's in the right role for I think he should have the ball more, and the last few games have been indicative of of how he's best used. But yeah, I mean, it was only a matter of time before he had a game like this.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

But you mentioned the first game, you mentioned the first game against the Bucs, and this is a game no one really talks about with Carrington. That's always if you notice, I feel like there's a trend when people talk about Carrington on the timeline. It's always been when he's coming off the bench, especially with all the negativity around him. It's always been oh, coming off the bench, you know, he had a bad game, blah blah blah. Like, oh, not a good bench player whatsoever. Why'd we trade Denny for this guy? The start of the season against the Bucs. He played 29 minutes, shot four of nine from the field, three of four from three, by the way, with five rebounds. Yeah. And only one turnover, like in 29 minutes. He was solid. He like this is what you expect from Bub Carrington as a starter when he's not asked to score, but instead be someone that spaces out the floor and facilitate a little bit, especially considering to start the season. You had arguably your best lineup so far out there. Everyone was healthy of CJ, and this was a game without Balal, but I mean, best lineup you could have without him out there. CJ, Saur, George, Middleton, and Carrington. Like he was playing with some good guys. You think Carrington's the number one option, number two or even three with those guys out there? He's like the four or five, and so he's not gonna get a lot of shots. He's just out there to facilitate and space the floor, and he was doing that, and it led in a good close game to start the year where it gave a lot of optimism to Wizards fans. I feel like it was like, man, we're competing with the Bucs, and the Bucs had, you know, some playoff aspirations, one more move. They were like, oh, they would make it to the conference finals, close game, 13-point loss. It's like, okay, like that's this isn't bad whatsoever.

SPEAKER_05 10:18

Keyshawn stole the show from that game. And you mentioned that that it that was that looked like sort of a lineup where he'd be at the at the back end of uh the priority list. Um, the lineup today was that invitation for let's see what you can do, because they let him start coming off of uh that big 27-point thing. And I think this lineup is actually sort of interesting. It was it was uh Bub, uh Keyshawn, Champagny, Bagley, and uh CJ probably. And that lineup is something to keep in mind because if we have super Bagley like this, then that's just so much offensive rebounding that you're invited to the table. And that's been really valuable over these last two games. I think the Wizards they could have won on Friday against the Cavs if CJ passed the ball to Bub in the fourth, or if um I give you a temporary bound because they had no problem getting offensive boards, but they couldn't tip the ball. And I feel like they smoked so many second chances off of just bad bounces.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

Yeah. Like I'm I'm looking through you know all his starts so far. I've only seen quote unquote one stinker from Carrington, if people wanted to call it that. Shot one at some from the field, which isn't good whatsoever, but he was good defensively, he still facilitated the ball well. He got five boards as well in that game. He made the one lone three he did take. It was against the Mavericks. I was there, I remember watching him, and it was one of those things where it's like it's like you know, it's the mid-range slash floater game isn't really there for him, but it's a common trend. The three-point shot is clearly been working. I feel like he needs to, instead of taking these, you know, deep twos, mid-range shots, try to you know, extend it out and turn it into a three because he's knocking down the three. It's just like I said, it's the mid-range shot, isn't really falling. But the overtime loss against the Sixers, he started that game in 38 minutes, went three of six from the field, two of three from three, had five rebounds and five assists to steal and a block. Like he was he was solid that game. I just I feel like the reason people are so harsh on Bub right now, even though we we have noticed when he starts, this team does play better when he starts, when he is a starter with you know everyone else, is because they look at what Denny's doing in Portland right now, and they're like, Oh my goodness, we traded away an all-star. You also got to keep in mind if Denny's on this team, is Keyshawn George looking like a player like he was to start the season? Probably not. Keyshawn George probably doesn't start, and no one knows what he can do then. And so does Alex Sarr come to this kind of stardom where he could potentially make an all-star game if he gets back sooner rather than later? Probably not. Like it's a bunch of this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_05 12:41

I'm glad you brought this up because we haven't actually the Denny and Bub storyline has been one of the bigger wizards ones of the season in the background. We haven't talked about it much, and I have a lot of thoughts on this because first of all, I think Bozman talked about as much as he has because he he really I love bub, but he statistically has been like one of the worst players in the league. Yeah, if not the worst, like if you look at like Vorp or any of these stats on reference, then he really does rank with the worst of the worst. But with that being said, I think the Denny thing is I I it's the kind of thing that you just do not want attached to your career, just that trade. No, because it's not his fault. Um, and I re but uh deep down, I really do feel like the Wizards they could have gotten a bit more for Denny. We didn't think he definitely could quit this, but you knew that he was 70% of this, and I think they could have gotten a bit more. Um, and it's been it has been an unfair narrative that's been lording over him, and especially since he just got drafted a year and a half ago.

SPEAKER_04 13:30

Yeah, I just I just think it's a big thing, like people why people are harsh on Bub is because they're expecting him to be an all-star exactly like Denny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:38

Can you hear Santa by the way?

SPEAKER_04 13:40

Hear what?

SPEAKER_05 13:41

Can you hear Santa Claus driving by? You had Santa Claus driving by? Listen to my audio. Can you hear that? Woo woo! It's the fire trucks, listen to that.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

Not really, no.

SPEAKER_05 13:51

You can't hear that? Oh man, he's right outside my door.

SPEAKER_04 13:58

Santa's Santa's come a little bit early.

SPEAKER_05 13:59

Sorry, I had to I don't have any canned goods to give him, but I waved. Um all right, sorry, as you were talking about Denny. Who might make an all-star team. Maybe might.

SPEAKER_04 14:07

I think he will. I mean, just looking at it, he's dominating over in Portland right now. I think he's a lock for an all-star team at this rate. But I think that's why people are so harsh on Bub, is because they're like, well, we trade away an all-star, you better be an all-star as well. I think that's why people are harsh, and we got to come to reality. Bub is not meant to be an all-star on this team. He is supposed to be a guy that kind of bridges everyone together when you think about it. He's a guy that's going to space the floor, he can shoot the three. If you need someone to make a three in a you know, tight game, you know he's a high percentage shooter from there, like he is this season, 42%. Like I mentioned, he'll do that for you. He can pass, he's a good perimeter defender as well. He's just a guy that kind of does everything and you know, it's almost I don't want to call him the glue guy per se, but he does kind of bring out the best out of everyone's game, like especially like we saw with Bagley today. I saw a lot of dishes to him down low. Like that's it's that kind of stuff that I see from him.

SPEAKER_05 15:00

I totally get what you're saying because he is good, he is a good secondary passer with Keyshawn, and he helps get the double point guard look going every now and then when they want to tap into that. Uh and he's a hard-working defender, he's got good hands. Um, so I get what you're saying. And it also, Denny wasn't exactly a finished product immediately, too. Like he took a while, he's come such a long way. He would do a sophomore slump as well. Yeah, I mean, there was a time when like he he couldn't hit any threes for a while, and his form looked really weird. And his rookie season was the Rust season. Westbrook was in town, and I remember Denny had the worst whistle around, and now he's got a great whistle. So these things take time, and I think we all knew Bub um, you know, wasn't gonna be that forever and still deserves much more time.

SPEAKER_04 15:37

Yeah, it just it just takes time. I just want people to stop comparing Bub to Denny because they are two completely different players, two completely different situations. Denny's the first option on a you know, coming in this season. I can't remember, I don't remember where they're at so far this season. I can look at the standings.

SPEAKER_05 15:54

Not good. They're like a I'm gonna guess a tenth seed, if that.

SPEAKER_04 15:58

Yeah, they're right now they're the 12. They're a rebuilding team, 9 and 16. It's Denny on a first option on a rebuilding team. He was now a what five or six-year player now in the league. He was in the 2020 draft, so this is his sixth season. Yeah, his sixth season where Bubb's in his second season, where it's you know, a lot of new players on this team. He was learning a new role coming off the bench where last season he started almost all the games. He's played, I think, every game so far this year as well. Never missed a game in his program. He's never missed a game either. Like this is still a young and raw player we're looking at who still has some stuff to develop, whereas Denny is kind of you know refined now. He's older. Like I said, first option on a rebuilding team compared to Bob Carrington, who was coming off the bench, even though he was a starter last year. And like I mentioned, when we see he starts, the team plays much better. There's a common trend of it's either a win or it's a really close game.

SPEAKER_05 16:49

Yeah, he's definitely but he's not fully resurging um because I think some of his some of his habits definitely he he took like I think one or two shots at the rim. You'd like to see that a bit more, but he's he looks a lot closer to what we were hoping for. And he's been big the last two games. Um now. You hear him now? He's coming back around? I I heard him now. Oh, that's funny. I was silent early and you couldn't hear him, but now these come back around and I'm talking. You can still hear him.

SPEAKER_04 17:13

You got me thinking of Santa. Man, if you could ask Santa to give the wizards one thing, what would it be?

SPEAKER_05 17:17

That's a great question. Um, how about you know, like an awesome lottery pick? This seems pretty simple, right? What else did it ask for? How about some pick? Yeah, how about some how about some fortune? Have you seen some of this? Um the people are starting to turn on Peterson a tiny bit. I think it's because of his injury. Like also, he he's one of those guys who's just making a lot of tough shots right now. And some people, if they see you just taking and making a lot of those agail suspicious for what happens when they don't fall.

SPEAKER_04 17:43

So I'm I'm trying to annoy the uh Santa Claus siren in the background a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 17:47

Can you see the lights flashing off my face right now?

SPEAKER_04 17:50

A tad bit, a tad bit. So he's gone. But yeah, no, top three pick from Santa for the uh Wizards would be nice. Um, I do want to flip it around a little bit because there is a lot of news that has happened. Yeah, and we're mainly talking about like, you know, I think the biggest difference with this team so far has been they just look like they're having fun. Let's be honest.

SPEAKER_05 18:11

I think it's because they look so young. It it matters that some of the guys who have been glued to their seats on the bench recently, like Will Riley and uh Johnny Watson, they've been getting in and they've been like making impact. That's part of the thing. Like you're seeing some of the players actually earn their minutes and making them count.

SPEAKER_04 18:25

I'm so happy to see Jameer finally get some minutes and like real, you know, rotational minutes for this team because he is a good defender. I think he'd be one of those second round gyms where potentially the best second round pick from that draft class. Uh, like and that's because of his defensive upside. He's he's already such a good defender. I would put him in, you know, like the top five of defenders on this team right now.

SPEAKER_05 18:46

I would. I was thinking during summer league, I think this guy could be the best defender who isn't Alex Tsar on the team. And I think he is right. I think he's the second best defender on the team.

SPEAKER_04 18:58

And it, you know, it's just a matter of can his offensive game come around. I I think that was the biggest question. I was like, what about his offensive game? Well, um, and the loss against the Cavs, didn't he have 15 points that game?

SPEAKER_05 19:10

He did. He did. It's really just shoot threes, like just shoot, catch and shoot threes. Like that's all you have to do. And like most of the threes he takes from the corners. And the first two games he played, he was like airballing a few, and you just figured there was really jitters from his first couple games. But if he keeps doing that, just taking like three or four threes a game, you know, make 30 something percent of them, you're golden.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

Yeah, well, like he he shot three of four uh from three against Cleveland.

SPEAKER_05 19:35

I loved it.

SPEAKER_04 19:36

He finished with 15 and 8 along with two blocks. Uh today against the Pacers, didn't do much offensively, played 15 minutes. He went one of one, only took one shot. He made that one shot, though. He did have five personal fouls, which does suck. I feel like that's a thing that you're just gonna learn as you know, a rookie coming into the NBA. Because he is he is old. Let's let's be honest. He is that's like he's old for a rookie, 24 years old. Like he that is his natural.

SPEAKER_05 20:02

He's not chasing LeBron's 10-point streak. That the offense is dealing with him. It's like if you can just provide that clamping defense, get your three and D guy.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

Just be a three, be Lou Dort. Loveless.

SPEAKER_05 20:12

Yeah, because most likely defensive specialists, but three and D guy would be awesome.

SPEAKER_04 20:16

Well, yeah, because like and I see a lot of Dort and Jameer a little bit because both guys that went under the radar. Uh Jameer Watkins. What oh, what pick was he in the second round? 43rd overall, so mid-second. 43rd.

SPEAKER_05 20:31

43rd, shoot.

SPEAKER_04 20:32

So so mid-second, Lou Dort went undrafted, but uh, you know, both guys that started off on two-way deals. They're only known for their defensibility, but they had no offensive game. And you know, if Jameer can just slowly develop at three like Lou did, he will become a valuable piece to this team. Who and the best part about it is you won't have to pay him$20 million in his next contract. You will pay him like five mil.

SPEAKER_05 20:55

Yeah, we can freaking afford it, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_04 20:57

We have like a million bucks to find like more than a million like see if you can develop him. I know he's older, but see if you can develop and see if he can help out this team a little bit. I really like his upside. It's just a matter of seeing if that offense can develop.

SPEAKER_05 21:10

Yeah, and even more excited than him has been the Riley stuff. Like, he really's such a high field guy.

SPEAKER_04 21:17

It's oh Riley has been great too. Like the whole rookie class, let's be honest. Didn't I say Riley? Yeah, you said Riley. That's what I said Riley. Yeah. Like the whole rookie class is what I'm saying, has been great this season for the Wizards when they have gotten the time to kind of showcase why they were drafted. Like today, Riley had 12 points on four to seven shooting. He's been getting to the line pretty frequently as well. Five free throws today, five free throws against the Cavs. Like it's a common thing for him. He's been knowing, you know, he knows how to get to the line a little bit. Did you see him sell that foul today as well?

SPEAKER_05 21:51

No, what do you do? I missed that one.

SPEAKER_04 21:53

It was so the play before Isaiah Jackson got a flagrant one. And so one more flagrant. He's gone. Okay. He's gone from the two game. And so Isaiah Jackson came down with the rebound. And he, you know, he did commit an off-ball foul on uh Riley beforehand, is what they saw in replay because they're reviewing it to see if it was you know hostile action. Because Riley so uh sold it that he got hit in the face on an elbow, and like it was this like this margin away from him, but you could clearly see it. Like and the margin I'm showing up is like an inch or two, by the way, guys. And so like you can clearly see on the broadcast, it didn't hit him whatsoever, but he sold it so well.

SPEAKER_05 22:36

He's smart. He can it's not just that he can drive and that he can shoot, it's he can figure things out on the fly. Like he's making these interior reads where he's just attacking a closeout and finding a pass, he's pivoting, he's waiting for his moment. He's just he's so much he was sort of touted as this guy who's this really good all-around scorer with a lot to grow at athletically and physically. Um, and you can totally see what they were thinking so far.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

Yeah, he's he's been great uh in the time that he has gotten the loss against Atlanta. He also looked good. Um, the loss against the Cavs, he didn't do much scoring-wise. Uh also that he didn't do much scoring-wise.

SPEAKER_05 23:11

He had this great pass, I think, too. Um like a little champion through spin, step through. He had that too hit that too, but he also, yeah, he yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, and he finished a lot from Bub, I think. Yeah, he he showed great flashes. I'll take that. Take flashes.

SPEAKER_04 23:25

And he's extremely young, too, 19 years old. Like it's so it's one of these things where I want to see the young guys play more often. I think give it a month. I feel like we are going to see the younger guys play. As you know, tomorrow, December 15th, is when a ton of guys in the NBA can be traded, and this is when trade season is officially starting here because of those contracts they signed over the summer. Uh, you know, officially be traded now. We might see that with a guy like CJ who gets traded in January, maybe Chris, because there are some reports that the Wizards are targeting some, you know, are I say targeting at least interested.

SPEAKER_05 24:00

And so I always wonder how legitimate those are. Like you're talking about like like the Sabonis one, because that's the big one this moment. No Wizards news, like like the Wizards front office, like a locked box. I don't know where these reports are coming from.

SPEAKER_04 24:11

I think this came because like they have been interested in the past, from what I've heard. It's a bonus, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:17

Really?

SPEAKER_04 24:18

That that's what I've heard through the grapevine is that they have been interested in the past. Specifically, this was with the old regime, with the Pacers.

SPEAKER_05 24:27

Tommy Shepard, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:28

And so when when Sabonis was with the Pacers, this is when they were allegedly interested in the past. So I don't know how accurate it is at the new regime with Dawkins and Winger. Back then, yeah, and so it'd be interesting to see how much value that does hold. But there are some players on these rebuilding teams, like the Kings, that realize they need to rebuild. You can't like all these players that you have now can't win with them. You gotta rebuild. So I'd be interested to see if they just do a fire sale on Sabonis and a bunch of these other guys, and he just goes cheap. And I I ran I I uh ran some trade packages as well that you could potentially do for Sabonis that are on the cheaper side. Let's hear it. Yeah, um, I'm pulling them up real quick because I have screenshots of them.

SPEAKER_05 25:12

Well, first of all, in a vacuum, let me just ask you: do you like the idea of Sabonis on this team?

SPEAKER_03 25:20

Um, to an extent, I will say that.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

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SPEAKER_04 25:55

To an extent, I will say I don't mind it whatsoever.

SPEAKER_05 25:59

He's a pro, he's a rebounder, he's a passer. Those are all good things. I'd be curious to see how the him and star thing works.

SPEAKER_04 26:03

It would probably be weird, but he would take up shots that's so the first one I had, of course, and this is just to get it done where you're not giving up you know a ton of valuable picks, and you're not giving up a ton either for Sabonis, because I do think Sabonis works because you can run a pick and roll with Sabonis on Sar.

SPEAKER_05 26:22

That'll be interesting.

SPEAKER_04 26:23

You you you can run a pick and roll with that. You can also run Sabonis at the high post, uh Saar at the low post. That's what I imagine. And I know I know I know Sabonis has some defensive problems as well, but SAR makes up for you know that lack of defensive problems, along with some other players that have been developing defensively. Koulibaly's still a good defender. We know that. Bubs looked better defensively. You got Jameer as well. Will Riley's looked a little bit better defensively. You you have guys that don't look bad defensively, along with a draft class coming in, where you could also get another defender with you know your second first round pick, or depending who you take first overall, maybe even a you know better defender there.

SPEAKER_05 27:00

The good thing is he wouldn't really interfere with anyone besides Starr. And I think Star is already the clear top option as far as like the front court goes. So um that wouldn't I I think they they could figure that compromise out pretty quickly, and it wouldn't be here for I think so too.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

No, he because you would get him and you'd have he and this is the big thing with him, he'd have two years left on his contract next season. It's longer than I thought. And so and but the thing is it kind of matches up perfectly because when that contract is up, that is the same time the inevitable George Saar and cool uh not cool, but like Carrington extensions would happen. And so you free up like 45 million in cap space, which will be you know, whatever SAR's contract will be for sure. Because I figure if he continues what he's doing this season, next season as well, he'll get the max.

SPEAKER_05 27:47

Well, I well, wouldn't George and Bub be due for extensions in the summer of 27?

SPEAKER_04 27:54

Uh no, they're all first-round picks.

SPEAKER_05 27:56

I know. So they're available after three years, you're available to sign next year.

SPEAKER_04 28:00

You can get them, but it doesn't go into effect until after your fourth year.

SPEAKER_05 28:03

It doesn't go into effect, but I'm talking about like the signing period.

SPEAKER_04 28:05

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, is like when that's when they would be available. And that's why I'm saying this cut like the contract, it matches up. And there's a lot of contracts I've looked at.

SPEAKER_05 28:12

Oh, you mean like numerically it matches up? Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

Yeah, it matches up numerically where like as soon as when Sabonis is on his last year, the next season will be when those extensions would have to go into effect. Again, yep. And so, like, that's what I'm saying. Like, it's not a matter of money because you would then be losing that money that you can put towards your young guys. That's why, like, it's a similar situation, OKC, where like Lou Dore and Hartenstein, they have team options this year. Well, do you know keep all these guys inevitably going to decline them? But it's kind of matched up where like you'd have to decline for Shea. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_05 28:43

But and I'd be curious to see how first before you get into these packages. I figure a lot of them are gonna involve CJ or Middleton or both, and that would just be so dumb for the Kings, but that's sort of what they do. Like, they just they get these older guys who are all perimeter scorers, and none of them really play defense. So I'm just curious to see like how they actually well.

SPEAKER_04 29:00

They're not they're not trying to get someone that's gonna make them a contender right now, is a thing. They're trying to like it's clear they have recognized they need to rebuild now.

SPEAKER_05 29:07

I freaking hope so, because I I I would have to see that to believe it that they've actually recognized that. And so because these guys are pros everyone.

SPEAKER_04 29:15

I think it's their general manager, apparently, told their owner that like it will take another five seasons for them to contend.

SPEAKER_05 29:21

That can mean a million things, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:23

But anyways, and like I said, this is nothing set and stone. This is just something that I think for sure gets it done. So you can maybe you know take away a pick from these as well. But contract-wise, it matches up picks-wise, I feel like that for sure gets a deal done, anyways. But it's a bonus over to the wizards, of course. And then the first package I had would be McCollum, Branham, uh, 2026 second rounder from us, 2027 second rounder, and then 28, 28, 2028 first rounder. I can't remember who it was from. It was uh I think it was the Suns or something. And so, which I know like that's why I'm saying, like, it for sure gets a deal done. I feel like you can take away a pick if they are truly doing a fire sale. I just feel like this is something like worst case scenario, this is what gets it done.

SPEAKER_05 30:11

Yeah, I it it's a matter of like, do he wants the bonus that badly? Because the rebounding and the the veteranness um and the passing is cool, but it it just depends on how badly you want him in the building. I don't want him that badly, so I'm just feeling especially stingy with him.

SPEAKER_04 30:26

Oh, yeah, no, I I get what you're saying, and then the second patch package is the exact same. You just take out McCollum from Middleton. Because no matter that, no matter what, you have to throw in a second player to make the contracts work, because Middleton is like 0.5 mil away from making it completely work for a straight up one-on-one with some picks. And so no matter what, you have to throw in another player. And I know he hasn't played much, but I'm not including Whitmore in any of these packages. Uh I'm not doing that. You are you're looking at someone that's not making a difference, he's not gonna be on the team, you know, for the long term, they're not gonna take a chance on him. Branham's making almost five million a year right now. He has one more year left. Might as well like get some sort of value from him. And like I know that sounds I know that sounds rude, but he's just he just doesn't play.

SPEAKER_05 31:14

You're right. So I figure a lot of these are gonna use Middleton and McCollum like sort of those are the pictures. One another because their their money is almost identical.

SPEAKER_04 31:24

Um, yeah, and there will be a bunch of teams that are rebuilding that would want to shed some cap for this offseason or you know, and maybe try to get a pick and return. That's why like Zion, I feel like, is something that a lot of people have talked about, and I it does make sense to me as well when you look at you know the money-wise and you know, the Pelicans, like making it known the Zion era is over in New Orleans that they're focusing on Queen, Fears, and Murphy. Those are three guys that they're really focusing on, which isn't a bad core to focus on around whatsoever because Queens look good, Fierces look good, and Murphy. We know Murphy, he's gonna ball out, and so not a bad core to focus on whatsoever. So get rid of Zion. And apparently, like from I can't remember, I think it was Brett Siegel, is the one that had the original stuff on Zion talking about it. How you know front offices have heard around the league that it's pretty much you know, like Zion's on the clearance rack, he's going for as cheap as possible. It's just like the first good offer that they hear, they are just taking it.

SPEAKER_05 32:23

Now you have my attention. Zion is someone who I've dearly, dearly coveted um ever since even with all of the thousand reasons why not to trade for him. I am just I comp I can't completely quit the idea of him just somewhere else. And um he was so good next SR. If he actually plays games, which again is such a huge if, but even he plays just some of the games, like him next SR, a rim protector, while he's just passing and finishing.

SPEAKER_04 32:51

I'm just thinking of a big defensive lineup right now, and it's got me salivating a little bit. I don't know how much it would work, but it just sounds so good.

SPEAKER_05 32:59

He wouldn't help much, but I think they could cover up around him.

SPEAKER_04 33:02

I am thinking of a big lineup right now of Bub, Keyshawn, Zion, Boozer with that first overall pick, then Sar. I like I know it might not work out. One of those guys probably has to go to the bench, and it might be it might be Bub, it might be, you know, it might be Zion coming off the bench, which should be an interesting that'll be crazy.

SPEAKER_05 33:26

I like how you I I took note. You didn't say Bilal, because Bilal would probably be in this move. He seems like from the traits I've seen, he's the biggest asset that the wizard would possibly be losing. It's that in a bunch of seconds, and one of the older fellas.

SPEAKER_04 33:38

Yeah, I think it's definitely one of the older fellas. I think uh from from what I've heard, I I think the Pelicans want some picks as well. And so, like, if they like one of their things is like if they can get some sort of first round pick in this year's draft, of course, they're gonna take that. And so maybe you add in the OKC pick this year, which is gonna be 30th overall.

SPEAKER_05 33:58

It's gonna be, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 33:59

But even a second rounder from this year, and then you add in let's let's give them middleton.

SPEAKER_05 34:04

Like, let's the thing is, they don't even have that much leverage.

SPEAKER_04 34:06

Like, you we could do that, but I think this could get done with a bunch of seconds. I think it gets done with a bunch of seconds. I don't even think you gotta move Bilal for it either, is the thing. So if it's not Bilal, give me the package. I I truly think it would just be like Middleton and picks. I because they want to free up cap space, they want to build around those three guys. And like, do you really want and like you what you're getting in Bilal, you already have in Murphy, if not better.

SPEAKER_05 34:32

I feel like I don't know if if on them I can justify him moving Zion and I don't know, he still carries they just want to move him, is the thing, is what I'm getting at.

SPEAKER_04 34:41

Like, they really do. You're right, they just want him gone, and that's what I'm saying. Like, they truly want him gone. You can get away from trading one of your younger guys for him, be like, look, you want picks, we got an abundance of picks, we'll give you three second rounders and Middleton. It frees up some cap space for you. So if you want to make a move over the offseason or you know, make it where you just sign contracts that are gonna be cheap and they expire, you know, when your young guys are ready for those extensions, it works out perfectly.

SPEAKER_05 35:07

Blah blah blah, all that. I think it would still require um a young guy like Bilal. But with the money even so how much is Zion supposed to make? Like a Zion for Middleton just can't be it it works. Really?

SPEAKER_04 35:19

It it works. I'll pull it up right now. I I have done this multiple times before. It works a hundred percent because Zion isn't making as much as you think he is.

SPEAKER_05 35:33

Well, that makes sense. He played his way out of a bigger contract.

SPEAKER_04 35:37

So let's give him two 2026 second rounders and a 2027 second rounder. It works. Zion for Chris and three second rounders works, and like I said, it's a fire sale, they're just taking the first decent package that they see.

SPEAKER_05 35:53

If I'm if I'm the Pelicans, I don't think I do that trade.

SPEAKER_04 35:55

But the Pelicans also have a horrible front office.

SPEAKER_05 35:58

They do. The more news that keeps coming out about not understanding pick protections just keeps looking worse.

SPEAKER_04 36:04

The fact that they didn't understand what they were giving away with their first rounder in this upcoming draft, uh, tells you a lot about that front office. And this is why I am confident you could get away without trading a first round pick or a young player. And if you do trade it, if you do trade young player, I'm telling you right now, do not trade Bilal. I would I am not training him. If you want to trade a young player, and this is the one time I would be okay with trading Whitmore.

SPEAKER_05 36:32

I I would I would I would be okay with that too. I would welcome Zion with open arms. I'm just so controlled with the idea of him.

SPEAKER_04 36:37

I know I know some people don't like the trading for Zion. Like I know Ben Strober. We I know Ben Strober mentioned when on the timeline today how he doesn't want a Zion trade whatsoever. And I asked him why, and he said it's because he's injury prone. And like I get that, but the thing about Zion is he's going to when you trade for him, his contract, it's the same thing as Sabonis. His contract expires when the you know Sard, George, and Carrington extensions come into play. That's the thing. It's like so if it doesn't work out, at least you free up this money and you give, you know, it goes to extensions. Like, it's not like it's going nowhere, it goes to extensions for your you know, core three guys right here.

SPEAKER_05 37:15

I'm gonna dream that this happens. I I just the upside, I just can't not.

SPEAKER_04 37:19

I think like it makes like to me, it makes too much sense to where it's not going to happen.

SPEAKER_05 37:25

Yeah, these things never it's like all those like sometimes it's just it it's too good to be true.

SPEAKER_04 37:31

Yeah, it makes too much sense to make it happen. And so it's but like I said, it works out perfectly money-wise because both are under the first apron right now, anyways.

SPEAKER_05 37:45

Yeah, exactly. That's not a thing that we're worrying about. Like we have so, so, so much money to burn. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 37:51

But I think we did an episode there, baby.

SPEAKER_05 37:54

Some good wizards news, and actually, like a real positive couple days.

SPEAKER_04 37:57

It was it has been positive. Like, even though they are one in one over the past few days, still extremely positive. Almost two and two and oh.

SPEAKER_05 38:05

Almost two and oh, they almost pulled it off, but you know, we're no longer on worst team of all time trajectory as well, which is nice. That is nice. That that is nice, and it's in Indiana, so they got some justice for that. They did quite one of the worst losses of their season when they when they lost Pacers earlier. This was this was a nice uh bounce back in a long long guy.

SPEAKER_04 38:24

And there's just been a bunch of guys playing really well. Like Bagley today, he had 23 and 14. Like it's he's not he he's someone he's someone I would not mind the team keeping as a backup big for a while.

SPEAKER_05 38:35

I like bag. I think when the Wizards traded for him, it was January of 2024. And I remember I was at a New Year's trip, or it was New Year's, it was late in January. I was at like a cabin trip, and he got traded for a bunch of crap. It was like whatever was left of Galinari and Mike Muscala went to Detroit, and I was so excited. And I remember like I was with a few friends, like some of them were Duke, one of them was a Duke fan, so he he likes Bagley. And I was just saying, like, look out Bagley, and it was at that moment, I think that was like when I was at my starvingest. That was the first year of we we had Balal, and that was when I was at my most hungry. So it's been nice seeing him in his own way build up some own value of his of his own while he's helping everyone else.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

Like, and um we've mentioned it in the past as well. I feel like Bagley just gets hate because he was drafted in the same class as Luca, Trey, Shea, all these you know, guys that are now all-star, all NBA level kind of players, two of them on Hall of Fame trajectories right now. And he was taken above Luca Dantri. So of course he's going to get hate because of that, where it's like, he's a bust, blah, blah, blah. When really he he has not been a bad role player.

SPEAKER_05 39:48

No, he's a guy. He's a guy.

SPEAKER_04 39:50

He's someone that can help you win games down in the nitty-gritty coming off the bench.

SPEAKER_05 39:54

For someone who's gonna be remembered as a draft bust. Sorry, it's just it's that's how his legacy's gonna be. Um, unfortunately, he still might end up getting like a decade-long career, which would really be something.

SPEAKER_04 40:05

It would really be something, and not like it, it wouldn't be a bad career either. Like it's like I understand he was taken second overall, right?

SPEAKER_05 40:14

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 40:15

If I'm if I'm not mistaken, no, you're right, you're right.

SPEAKER_05 40:17

It went Ayton, badly, Luca.

SPEAKER_04 40:19

And then Luca, yep. But it's not like he like he's a bad role player by any means.

SPEAKER_05 40:25

No, you know, I like backup bigs. I like offensive.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

Like, of course, getting drafted the Kings, it's rarely ever going to work out. Let's be honest.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Yup.

SPEAKER_04 40:33

Getting drafted the Kings, you're rarely gonna have a good career in Sacramento. And it takes a lot of players to be traded away from the Kings or leave in free agency before they kind of shine. Look at Tyree Salburn.

SPEAKER_05 40:43

Yeah, you're familiar with this game.

SPEAKER_04 40:45

A little bit. And so, but it's like he he really is like he really isn't bad. What's over in 25 minutes is rookie season, he averaged 15 a game. There was a stretch where he went 14.9, 14.2, 14.1 to start his career. He had a rough stretch in Sacramento, uh, before he got traded to Detroit, where in Detroit he averaged 14.6 again. But it's been a cons you know constant kind of like 14, 14, 10, 14, 11, 12, 10, 13, 11.

SPEAKER_05 41:10

And then yeah, you finished.

SPEAKER_04 41:13

And then uh no, that's all good. Um, because he originally was with Washington before he went to uh with before he went to Memphis and now he came back to Washington. Yeah, and he didn't have a bad stretch in Washington. His first season in Washington, he averaged 13 points, and then before he got traded to Memphis in that 2024-2025 season, he averaged 4.9 points. That was really rough. And then he's coming back now, he's averaging nine points off the bench in 18 minutes per game. Like he's a solid role player, he's not a star, but people want to say he should be a star because he was taken above Luka Doncic because of that stuff, so they're always gonna know him about him as a bust for that. But he's a good role player, he's someone that you don't mind having as a backup center.

SPEAKER_05 41:53

Yeah, and he's done great things for the Wizards outside of that, too. It's nice that he came back, but his getting traded to the Wizards or to Memphis also netted the pick that became Will Riley.

SPEAKER_04 42:03

Yes, and so it all it all worked out. So show more appreciation of Marvin Bagley. That's what we're trying to say. Nice basketball he's played.

unknown 42:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:10

Nice basketball. But nice stretch of Wizard basketball.

SPEAKER_05 42:12

Glad we got to talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 42:14

Anything else?

SPEAKER_05 42:16

That's all I got. I think I uh excuse me, sorry. Um, I think uh this this this gave me uh and the fans a lot to be excited about.

unknown 42:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 42:23

That's all I can really ask for.

SPEAKER_04 42:24

It should give a lot of money. Show us promise.

SPEAKER_05 42:26

Show us young guy minutes.

SPEAKER_04 42:28

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:29

Show us earned young guys minutes.

SPEAKER_04 42:31

Oh yeah. But that's all we got. Thank you guys for listening as always, and uh we'll see you in the next one. Peace.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you, and hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up. Spring's calling. Ross, work your magic.