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All Wizards Talk
Wizards Hit Big in Vegas
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The fellas hop on another episode to discuss Summer League action in Las Vegas, where Bryson Akins and Henry Brown are on sight for the games.
Welcome back to another episode of All Wizards Talk a podcast on the All Sports Talk Network. I'm on your co-host, Bryce Nakens, show alongside as always by Henry Brown in the flesh. Oh my goodness, we're at Summer League, and Josh found us. He's he's in DC. He's still stuck in Washington. He did not make the trip. And so he uh he will not have a fun time on this trip with us tonight. So um, but we have had a fun time. We went to Summer League last night. We saw Wizards versus Jazz in person. It was a blast. It was a lot of fun, a lot of great takeaways from that. That we're gonna bring you guys here today. And the first thing that we gotta talk about is just AJ Devonta. They were Jazz FC was all over him. They were saying, we can't believe that the Wizards passed up on DP, that they gave us DP. Like it was a blunder, and then we see what happens, and DP got locked up. AJ outperformed him. That was a great game. What'd you take away from that, Josh, while you were uh watching uh watching on the TV?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I wasn't there. See, you guys were on TV. I was watching it. Yes. Yeah, that was really funny.
SPEAKER_02I give Bryce and we all give Bryson some crap for that because we we were we were um out of focus for uh many a play af after that game. Anytime someone would come down to the running back in transition, there's uh sitting in seats that weren't supposed to be sitting in.
SPEAKER_03So funny. Kind of fun though. So funny, fun, very, very uh fun times. Um but yeah, no, I think um I think uh Jamir's defense on DP was like he he caused him like six turnovers. That's kind of crazy.
SPEAKER_01Caused six turnovers. The I remember because I made a comment about it, um after the first quarter, he forced two turnovers and held DP to one of five shooting from the field. Which is just absurd.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was a tough start, and you know, we talked about this earlier, but John Mary isn't gonna get this kind of burn on a regular basis, given that he's on a two-way deal and there's you know a million other guys in rotation. But what a handy wild card, just be able to throw out in any future Utah matchups, just to say, here's this ready-made guy who is like half a decade older and he's strong, he has a relentless motor, and now we know we haven't really seen this before. Now we know that he is willing to like start subtle contact and you know sort of push him. DP pushed him back, got called near the end of that game.
SPEAKER_01Or his ninth foul, by the way.
SPEAKER_02Nine fouls. They won't have nine fouls, and they're willing to get dirty, and it was a very, very intriguing um advertisement for the many AJ DP Wizards Jazz battles to come, I thought.
SPEAKER_03And you know what's crazy is like I wasn't even that surprised because John Meer has given trouble to like NBA stars before on defense. It's like it's it's amazing how good he is on defense. It's just he literally just has to develop offensive game, and then you got a serious, serious player.
SPEAKER_01But like in itself, develop a shot.
SPEAKER_03Right. I I wrote last night, I was like, they can bring him in, you know, at the end of games, even like early on in the season against like the best player. And so they you know, say if they have like a six-point lead, you could just you know, last like two minutes of the game, you make sure like the best player doesn't score, jump against the guy.
SPEAKER_01You know, it's nice to have that. And I was talking about it with Henry at the game where it's like imagine like Bilal or Keyshaw getting to foul trouble. Let's say Bilal gets four fouls at the start of the third quarter. Now you have Jameer who can just come in and sort of replace him for that time before you get back to the four for it. It's like, look, like we know you know Bilal, our you know, best defender that we regular regularly play right now, he's in foul trouble. But we have Jameer Watkins on the bench, we can just throw him out there. We know he's gonna put on some good defensive pressure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was almost like a coming out party where he was this guy who mostly Wizards fans know about him, but he's not super talked about outside. He's this now this sort of open secret as this really scary defensive weapon you can throw in sort of doses. Utah fans were not happy with him, and that was the first time I've seen anyone start to start to throw some hate on any wizards in a while, let alone you know some of the stuff AJ heard last night. That was pretty crazy. Some of those foul baiting accusations he's already getting. It is wild. One game into Summer League.
SPEAKER_01We have we have had one Summer League game, and Brick Center has already made a foul baiting montage of AJ Debonsa. The Wizards are back. That's what I'm taking away from this. The Wizards are back in action. I gotta step away.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so is housekeeping. They're back as well, right?
SPEAKER_03That's so true though, because if you think about it, it's like the it's like if you are like, you know, talked about and you know, you're like in the news, that means you get hated on, right? It's like so now it's like they're getting an SGA Foul Bay montage after one summer summer league game, Jazz fans hate Jamir Watkins. That means like your team has motion, serious motion.
SPEAKER_01We I saw people calling him a 30-year-old scrub on the timeline.
SPEAKER_03Like it's like, can you just Google for two minutes? It it doesn't even take two minutes, actually. Google Jamir Watkins, just look at what his career has been. One season.
SPEAKER_01A lot a lot of the comments that I got under that post about how Jameer guarded DP in that first quarter was also like, well, yeah, he also had five fouls after the first quarter. I was like, the five fouls are the reason he went one for five from the field? That's that's the reason he was shot.
SPEAKER_03That's true. I I I love the Summer League ten fouls thing, it's pretty funny.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they they've done it where it's uh one for two now, and so it's like it's yeah, it's weird. And so like I was doing the math. Um AJ shot, you know, went to the line eight times last night. One of them was an and one. Realistically, he had you know, he would have had 15 free throws in a regular NBA game.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thawed on the floor a bunch, a bunch of times. He was going up for a runner and they just got him on the go. Yeah, he he's already so good at just like the idea of needing paint touches isn't gonna be a problem for a while. You know, Trey Young was one thing watching a guard glide into the paint the way he did in those five appearances, 20 years maybe five appearances. Um now this guy is like almost infectious, where now he's getting he's getting there at will, and he's getting fouled, and he's having some crazy finishes. That was like two or three like up and under layups he had, the touches there, the athleticism, and and the effort, the the the initiative to get down there. It's it's as crazy to see out of a wizard of all people.
SPEAKER_03And the thing is, is like, okay, imagine when this guy, first of all, this is his first game in my four months, right? Ever since he lost in March Madness in the first half, right? And then it's like so he's not like in full like peak you know form yet, and his his jumper's not even really there yet either. But he was still cooking, right? Obviously, I know he missed a lot, but in general, you saw there's just extreme explosiveness and like athleticism at the rim. That's such a good foundation to work off of.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think he shot seven of sixteen, if I'm not mistaken. Over five from yeah, over five from three. The three, it wasn't pretty. Like they we can't ignore that. A lot of front rims. Yeah, the three wasn't pretty. He was short on a lot of shots, but I mean, shoot, you take away the threes, he went seven of eleven, I think, from the field, you know, from inside.
SPEAKER_03I think he was seven of eighteen uh in total.
SPEAKER_01Okay, then seven of twelve, that's or seven of thirteen. That's still very good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and the coverages he was seeing were crazy. Like Peterson got a lot more talk for that because he was just playing with a simply less impressive summer league lineup. Like everyone we saw out of the Wizards starting lineup, we're we're gonna see play real minutes at some point in this season. Even someone like Hilario, who is pretty far down on the big man death chart. Uh the Utah Summer League team isn't really like that. They don't have as much uh uh talent sort of built up that far down. They already saw Ace Bay off. They always had Ace Bay. Yeah, yeah. That matters. It was it was pretty pretty dark without him. So he was definitely seeing uh some early doubles, but so is so is AJ, and so was Trey for that matter. Like the Wizards were were getting collapsed on really quickly, and I thought they handled it much better than many of them did last year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, early in the game, I saw like he had a he had seven points in the first minute and a half, and then after that, Trey started getting doubled almost every single time. Then it opened up the chance for AJ to start to score a little bit as well, and it's like, well, now, and this is where I think you're gonna see the wizards as well, where like in that game last night, it was like, okay, well, you can't double Trey because then that's leaving you know open space for AJ. It's like, well, we can't double AJ because that's leaving open space for Trey. It's like, well, we can't double both because now of a sudden we have one defender for three players. You can't do that. And so it's created this sort of situation where it's like, man, like they really like you can't double anyone. I think you're gonna see that with the Wizards as well, because let's say Trey Young is hot one night, and we'll talk about him soon as well, since he has his press conference. We're at that. Um, let's say Trey Young is hot. Let's say he starts a game, you know, or like the third quarter, going four for four from three. All right, he's hot. He's getting double teamed now. Well, all of a sudden, you have A D, who he's getting one-on-one matchup, and he starts cooking, he goes three for three back to back to back. Bang! Now he's getting doubled. Well, like, shoot, go back to Trey Young now, or like A.J. DeBonz is out there, where it's one of those things where this roster, how you have it set up now, is like you can rarely double team a player now for the Wizards. And it's gonna open up this offensive time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's it's it's it's actually insane how much talent is on this team. I mean, and the thing is, is like, you know, like like you're saying, okay, you know, AJ and Trey, they're not gonna see these like looks on on defense that they were seeing last night. But it just shows you that even when they do, see that even when they are like, you know, at the top of the rotation, they can still like have a really loud performance, you know what I mean? So it's like what happens when they're not even focused on as much because you got Trey and A B and Star and everyone else out there, that's gonna, you know, like I don't think Trey Johnson's gonna be double teamed at all this season, I doubt it. You know what I mean? So I mean he he's a fantastic shooter. So it's that that's the kind of thing that they have a really bright offensive upside.
SPEAKER_02And it reminded me that a lot of our projections for what the Wizards can be next season are built around the idea that that AJ's gonna be this good rookie. But if he is like a great rookie, which he looked like yesterday, setting some kind of time the record for most points that's starting like debut with 27. Yeah, um, for first overall, I should say. That that that changes everything. If this guy is already ready to be the third best player, or maybe more, who knows, on a really good team, that that's everything. That's that's immediate playoffs. That that because we're looking at play-in right now as their sort of range, what we should expect, how we should tender our uh sort of uh more bullish expectations. This this changes everything. If he's ready to maybe not give 27 every night, but uh attack in so many different ways. Give him 20.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think 20 points a night is very much in the car. It's it's really just gonna be about how many shots is he taking.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, with that with that kind of knack for drawing free throws. That that even for even by rookie standards and rookies aren't known for getting the best whistles, but the idea of knowing where to go and sense in the moment, which he definitely did last night, there were a bunch of plays he a bunch of highlights he left on the table, honestly.
SPEAKER_01Like there was one time he got DP up in the air, and there was a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02He got DP up in the air, he broke someone and like missed a three at the first quarter buzzer. There was he and DP didn't have many possessions on each other, but they had one where DP was guarding AJ uh near the end of the first half. And you felt in that moment that it hadn't happened very often because that whole Vegas stadium just sort of out loud. It was like it was like a big playoff game the last time possession when you're just watching, you're feeling momentum change, and the windows did help for riding really high. But those guys really know there's a rivalry, and they said so, or at least AJ said so in his press conference yesterday, sort of likening he and um DP to T Mac and Kobe as like their comparisons. And he sees those two. He really he he's really embracing the rivalry they've had all the from high school to college, uh now summer league, and you know, the regular season is been here, but the fan base is already getting in on the top, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And also this was AJ's first win over DP in his life. So AJ actually mentioned that after the game. He was like, This isn't this the first I finally beat him because he beat him twice uh you know before college, and then and then you know he beat them uh yeah last season. Um yeah, that game, uh DP scored like 20 points in 18 minutes or something for Kansas.
SPEAKER_02You know, he probably played in the second half.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was crazy. Um, but yeah, but but AJ finally got him back, so you know it could be, you know, something we see more of. But I think Wizards Wizards' jazz games in the actual season are gonna be a movie for sure.
SPEAKER_01The two that we get.
SPEAKER_03It's gonna it's gonna be that, it's gonna be AJ versus any other.
SPEAKER_01It's not it's not even just AJ versus DP form because they're like the when you look at it, they are the two up-and-coming teams in their comp for respective conferences, you know. And so anytime you play against them, and they're very evenly matched as well when you look at it. I mean, like, you know, Keontae and Trey, uh, DP and AJ, uh Jaron Jackson Jr. and Anthony Davis, Axar and Lori Mark and stuff like that, where it's like it's very evenly matched, and it's gonna make for good hoops no matter what, every single time they play against each other.
SPEAKER_02They're two of the earlier picks of uh these teams that haven't been good in a while to return to the playoffs. I've noticed that among some some jazz hype as well. Definitely.
SPEAKER_03And you know what's funny is like Ace Bailey is probably gonna come off the bench for that just like trade just like Trade Johnson for the Wizards, both in the first round picks, or the or actually the you know, the top six picks from from last year. You know, that's that kind of shows you how fast they're going up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's almost like this this second level rivalry that's going on, where it's not there hasn't really been any any buzz about it, but they were compared a lot as prospects, they're picked back to back. Um and they're both these you know score first highlight machines. And that's another thing about this game, it sort of made me remember just how good Trey Johnson is, because we've only really talked about in the last few months in regard as you know, will he be the fifth starter? And you're seeing if this guy comes off the bench, this this is how how good he could look. It's deadly shooting. And for Trey, for Trey for Trey Johnson, yeah, especially considering he, a lot like AJ, it seems just he he was willing to do so much damage inside the arc. The runners, the floaters, the pull-up game off, off, off the off the uh off the pull-up. Um he was getting to the rim, finishing these sort of crazy gliding uh hook layup shots. He he was just so much more versatile than your than your average, you know, guy who hits crazy three-point shots. And you felt out with all of the young guys that you know maybe they did say they were gonna get more physical, and it does take a while for you to add that implement to your game to your to your shot diet. I know we don't like saying shot diet over here, but there there's a real there's a real mindset shift in place. You could see that with with uh Will Riley as well, even though he wasn't as successful at the last couple minutes. But these guys were all trying to make sure they get their paint touches up and keep the feet in the big guys.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's that's something that you know I think if all the young guys can get to the paint, um, I think this team's in a good place, you know. I I mean the ones who can't probably won't be in the rotation as much, you know. I I feel like it's at that point now it's like, all right, you gotta you gotta make the defense collapse, you know, you gotta be able to have some gravity, even if you're like mostly an outside player, you still gotta be able to go in when when when we want you to.
SPEAKER_02It really mattered to me that the Wizards got up uh by a lot in the first half. The lead was like hovering around 20 for like a quarter.
SPEAKER_01They were up 18 to 4 when the Jazz took their first time out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and a lot of that was because the Wizards getting better shots. It helped they had like some of the better players, they had a more, I think. Well, that's the thing. They were doing that, but also they were creating better shots at the rim. I thought the Jazz were having to settle for a lot more threes that were gonna go in.
SPEAKER_01To me, it wasn't necessarily them creating better shots. It's just you can tell a lot of these players have just gotten stronger. That's my thing.
SPEAKER_02The fact that they can get downhill and do things, they're not just getting bumped out of the way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, like Trey Johnson, for example, I think that's what really separated him is like he just he just looks so much more physical. He does. And by seeing him last night as well when he came to the scrum, I mean, you you could just tell he has gotten bigger. He was wearing his classic quarter zip that he always wears, especially under his practice jersey for some reason. But even in the quarter zip, you could tell, like, hey, he's gotten a little bit bigger. You can tell he has gained some muscle and size too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's like an institutional uh approach to actually making sure they did watch the playoffs and showing everyone we know that the name of the game right now is show that you can do more than just chuck threes. As valuable as that can be if we're comparing threes and twos.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I think uh it's definitely really nice that the whole young court sort of having that mindset, all right, let's get stronger, let's get in the weight room, and now let's get to the rim. It's like it's it's really that simple sometimes because it's like once you do that, it opens up everything. You know, if you can't get to the rim, it's just it's just really hard to do much because then it's it's just way too easy to guard against you. So if you know, I I know I know Trey Johnson kind of came in as a three-point shooter, but if he starts getting to the rim a lot at the you know, uh when the actual regular season starts, he could be a three-level scorer too. I don't see why not.
SPEAKER_01A lot of it was just those bump-offs in the mid-range. That's what like really just stood out to me. It's like Keyshawn. Oh my goodness, it looks so much, it just looks so much better now. It's just it was impressive watching him. I'm not trying to overreact just to one summer league game for like performance. So yeah. I know that's what summer league is for for us to overreact to one game. But I mean, like, it's just it's it's the fact that it's like if he can do this at the NBA level instead of summer league, if he can do this during the regular season, it's gonna be deadly. It's the same with AJ and like that's kind of goes into my thing where it's like mentioning he could be a 20-point per game score in his rookie season, it's not from what he just did against the Jazz Summer League team. It's the fact that we saw the Jazz Summer League team say, we can't double one person because it leaves someone else open. The Wizards, you know, opposing teams are gonna have the same problem against the Wizards in the regular season because that, like we mentioned, with the amount of offensive weapons that they have and that starting lineup and just in the roster as well.
SPEAKER_02Here in Vegas, we've been thinking a lot about how these guys fit into the general full roster when everyone's ready to play in the fall. Because it helps that everyone's been at the first game. The whole team showed up to game one, and they're all there today. It's crazy. I've never seen them four in the game.
SPEAKER_01Everyone showed up at the press conference.
SPEAKER_02Exactly the right press conference.
SPEAKER_01The only person gone was the only person gone was Middleton. I think it was at least there yesterday. Yeah, he was there yesterday, and I think Will actually said that he left early.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh, well, the fact that he showed up at all, everyone's bought in, and it's it's sort of like the really optimistic version of last year, where the Wizards, I believe they lost their first summer league game, and they were getting dogged on because people were thinking, oh my god, this is their actual starting lineup. That Sar, Keyshawn, Bub, Riley, and Trey Johnson, because that's that's all they're really working with this time last year in Bilal. And now it's still uh a summer league lineup full of guys who have major league talent, but then you're seeing all the other guys who are in the mix on the sideline, guys who have better cases for starting, guys who have more experience. It it shows that there is just a much better team in place, really suddenly than there was this time last year.
SPEAKER_01It's just it's it's really impressive to see like what has actually happened with the Wizards now. And like you mentioned the people on the sidelines, like they have uh Keyshawn George who's playing for Team Canada right now. You know, they have they have some they have some dogs on that team.
SPEAKER_02He took the time to show out, so did the recently uh signed guys like uh Middleton or the recently traded for Aiden. Everyone, no matter how recent they got there, everyone showed up. Middleton, he just he just got the you know, got back what three days ago?
unknownSomething like that.
SPEAKER_01That's crazy. That's crazy. And he was already there supported him. It was just it was very like I it was impressive seeing what they did on the court, but it was more impressive to see just how bought in this team is for this upcoming season. You don't like you you don't ever really see a full team just show up on the sideline to watch the game. Like the Jazz had some guys there, they had you know uh JJJ there.
SPEAKER_02Yes, they like he was Collier there.
SPEAKER_01Collier was there. Outside of that, it was like didn't really see much anyone for the Mavericks game. I only saw Coop there. Max Christie. Max Christie was there, that was it. Where it's like all these other teams that are playing, it's like you don't see over five players from that team be there, you know. Whereas with the Wizards, the entire team was there, and it's like Anthony Davis, Trey Young, those are big name guys where it's like they could have been somewhere else to like stay out of the light a little bit, but they decided to show up and support the team. It was impressive.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, especially with A D, right? Because we know that's been a huge talking point this summer. Um, you know, as of now, it looks like A D is fully bought in. You know, I we know that they, you know, he and his reps met with the team over the summer to talk about things. Just like AD said they were gonna do, like, we're gonna talk the summer, see what's up. You know, uh, we don't know all the details of what happened there. Uh, we know that A D is uh extension uh eligible in August. Um, I don't think they should uh sign anything in August. Um I don't think so either.
SPEAKER_01We'll see. Even though he is very, very talented, I don't think they should extend him right now. I just think that would I think that'd just be bad business at the moment, but we'll see. We'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_03I I agree. But but it's just nice, regardless of that. It's just nice that he is fully bought in and he's not sort of like you know halfway one foot in, one foot out, I think he was before.
SPEAKER_01I think I think part of that is because A, he realizes that there is something going on here where it's like, even if he does want to stay here, and it is very rare you see a player take a salary cut just to be on a championship team. But if he's trying to solidify Hall of Fame case and no doubt go in it into it, it wouldn't be a bad idea for him to take a budget-friendly deal to stay watching and be like, yeah, I'll be the starting four here. And I don't gotta be the first option like I had to be for the Lakers during that 2020 run because he had to be the first option sometimes, and so LeBron. He he had to take that role where he's like, right here, I can be the third option and still put up 29 for this team, and we're gonna blow a lot of teams out of the water. And so I'm not saying this is my advocation for A D to stay in Washington long term. That is not what this is. I'm just saying I think he's starting to realize that this could be an option for him a long term. It just comes down to if he's willing to take a pay cut to truly keep this team together.
SPEAKER_02If nothing else, you know, you advertise I still have value because Guys arrive in Washington because they were a Bilo experiment. So you might as well show. I'm still in Phany Davis.
SPEAKER_01If you can do 20 and you know 20 and 9 a night, you know, for the Wizards, and they have a winning record come trade deadline, this stock's gonna be high where you can get draft capital in return form.
SPEAKER_02And on the topic of extensions, uh, I'd like to also talk about some things we saw today at that conference because it felt it wasn't just that it was in the Fort Seasons Hotel, which you know Brass and I were really marveling at the whole way through.
SPEAKER_01They have they have glass uh or they have water in a glass bottle. Like they were just handing that out, like how do you get that rich?
SPEAKER_02And the old staircase there, but it felt like a really big deal besides the venue because it was the first press conference we've had that was based around an extension. All there's really been on the extension front has been the little contract between the two-way guys on these whole deals, whether it's Uskovich or uh Watkins. But this felt like a real big buy-in that Trey Young talked about it, is willing to commit to the team through the rest of the decade, but they're willing to commit to him, the rest of the team is here, they can sense the moment the jump coming. And as as we said, the whole team who was out in the game yesterday showed out in a single file. Um you know, Bob had some questions. And it it it felt it felt like sort of a commemoration of, you know, we're we're we're cutting the ribbon on the next step of what was the rebuild.
SPEAKER_03It's um it is it is amazing when you put it that way. It's like the first like extension press conference since I guess the new the this regime came in, right? Um I didn't think of it that way. That that is a cool, it is definitely like a marker in time. Like, okay, this is a big, you know, things are changing. Um, you know, yeah, I think in in terms of what he said, it it seemed good. I I think that you know, we already knew he was super bought in. Um and he was just kind of like, yeah, I don't really want to talk about it. I just want I just want to show you guys, you know, that's that's cool. Uh, you know, I I definitely think as good as he is, he does have a lot to show given that this is such a massive contract. This is this is the max that someone else could have offered. Um, you know, and uh I I think the the the Wiz, you know, probably knew that it was a big chunk of change, but they also just wanted trade and town, you know, and they were like, you know what, let's just do it. We don't even want to mess with it, we don't even want to have any issue, let's just do it. So they did it, you know, and I think that um, you know, trade mixed a game with with AJ is gonna be tricky. I just you know, AJ's gonna have to be off the ball more, and that's fine. But I just think that Trey's gonna have to be super leaning into his passing side, I think, a lot, just because of how much talent's on his team. And look, he he has 9.8 assists a game for his career. It's not like a problem.
SPEAKER_01It's just that I think I want to point out something that when I asked uh Will this, I specifically asked him, it was like, you know, he had he had options in free agency and via trade to bring in someone other than Trey. So I was like, what specifically made him stand out? And he said something that has really stuck with me, and he said, in the few games that he did play for them, he had a higher career assist percentage with his lowest usage ever. That is that's something showing because when we think of Trey Young, we think of someone like he has a high usage rate. He needs to be involved almost every single time. Whereas like, if that's really the case, and he's gonna take a little bit, I don't want to say backseat role, but just hike down the usage, because it's pretty high in the past. And so, like, if if that's you know going on where it's like this is his highest career assistance percentage with his lowest usage percentage right here, that is just like that's music to my ears because then it's gonna leave the floor open for AJ DeBanza to do a little bit more work on ball. A AD to have a little bit more, you know, leeway with the offensive work load as well, where you know it just really impressed him. And I also asked Trey, and this was almost a gotcha question, which I feel bad about in hindsight now. I didn't even realize at the moment, but I asked him, um, sort of like, you know, like sort does he feel a sense of relief now since he's playing with one of the best big men in the game is seen with Anthony Davis? That's something that we can't deny. Um, you know, just everything that he does. And then one of the best young sinners in Alexar, I didn't even mention A.J. DeBonsa, but then everyone on the bench, it was one of those things where it's like looking at us, like, man, like one of those things where it's options. Yeah, one of those things I asked him is like, is there a sense of relief where it's like you can rely on those options late in the game? And he said, you know, it's a great word. Um I definitely feel a little bit more of that now. And so like it's just it's really impressive to see, A, just how bot any he is, and B, we were just so worried that he was going to be the Trey Young we saw in Atlanta, where it's like he is going to be one of the have one of the highest usage rates in the NBA and be on balloton, not you know, give it up until like last second, or you try to use a bunch of screens, not get everyone involved or move off ball now. Where it's like, like I said, this was his lowest usage rate, um, ball having his highest percentage and assists.
SPEAKER_02Like it's it really reminded me of his uh exit interview at the end of the regular season when he had sort of a similar response, about but he talked more about the Hawks, where he he said, and got some flag for this, but he said he's never been around an assortment of uh defenders that's impressive. Um he recognized the team was huge, and he was just sort of you know rolling out the red carpet for uh for all that he can create alongside a bunch of big disruptors. And now to start the offseason, they've gotten AJ and Felix, who are two big guys in the draft, Deanna's Aiden as a third big, and it just shows that they're even more serious about uh following through with this best version of the team that he's envisioning, and that again has to appease him entering a free indicating even if it was just for like a week.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it it's um it's amazing that I I think that he's not gonna say like super directly, but he's I think it's pretty obvious that he's like this is the best roster that I've had like far enough.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say that like it is crazy the Wizards have done a better job of you know, so so to speak, building a roster around Trey Young in the past what five months than the Hawks did in eight years.
SPEAKER_02You gotta really think that that that after that 21 run they went on one of the went to the conference finals, that roster's getting a lot of love. And uh now they're all gone, they're all just sort of scattered across different benches across the city.
SPEAKER_01The second best player was John Collins, and now his second best player he's ever played with is Anthony Davis. Yeah, like it's that sort of put this in perfection. That's a huge upgrade for him where it's like, man, like this this truly is the best roster Trey Young's ever played with. And he took that 2021 squad to the conference finals. Imagine what he can do in a more off-ball role with the Wizards. That's like anything.
SPEAKER_03So, you know, the thing with Trey Young in 2021 is you couldn't stay in front of him, right? Yeah, like I remember that so clearly. Like, just nobody could say they just you just couldn't, but you couldn't. Yeah, Reggie Bolock couldn't.
SPEAKER_02Um, never on Soel couldn't, whoever else was on the Knicks team couldn't.
SPEAKER_03Bro, but same with Philly though. They couldn't do nothing with him. Like it was like it was just it was he was incessantly getting to the rim, and I think he can still do that, but I just think it's not gonna look the same as that 21 Hawks team. Probably because now it's like, again, that team, they had good players, but it wasn't like this kind of firepower the Wizards have, you know, where it's like A B and A J.
SPEAKER_01And that's that's the thing I was thinking, where it's like he doesn't need to be the player that blows by everyone. That's that's not what you need from Trey Young now, especially for this Wizards team, because guess what? You have a player that can do that right now in AJ Devanza. Right? He has uh insanely quick first step. Whereas one of those things where it's like we need you to facilitate and learn how to come off off ball screens for a three-point shot.
SPEAKER_02That's what stuck with me after uh Dawkins' conference today was he pointed out Trey Young's connective tissue that you you can you you can't average that many assists without without having some desire or you know some instincts to keep the ball moving and create plays. And you know, it might be it might be sort of a clunky fit next to AJ, whether we're talking the defense, whether we're talking how willing they both are to play off the ball.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But they both have something there in terms of uh uh facilitating some crazy offense with a lot of different attackers. You can go 12 deep. Most guys in this raster have a way of getting their own bucket.
SPEAKER_01And he mentioned, I think, how Trey has been 99th percentile or better in uh assists per game in the NBA since he was a rookie. Where it's like you you don't do that without you know naturally being a good facilitator and playmaker. I just feel like he got a bad rep because you know, he was, you know, unfortunately in Atlanta, he was the offense. They didn't really have anyone around him for a few years.
SPEAKER_02The thing we have to say there is he was the offense partially because he wasn't very flexible, and that's where the ball really is in his core. He said at you know, end of season that he was gonna prove more in defense, and he showed in tiny bits over fighting for the wizards that he was willing to defer a bit more. And a lot of that is built on that sort of promise without ever, you know, he never did a pinky promise, but he told he he made the impression that he's ready to turn to uh to uh turn a new leaf in DC. And he has the players where if he wanted to do that, this is who it's for, someone like AJ.
SPEAKER_03I think that yeah, he could almost do kind of like a Steph Curry thing where he like runs off of the ball in time and gets it like the whole thing. Like that, that could be something really great. That he hasn't really done much, you know, as much in his career yet. But if if he does that on this team, that could be crazy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and he doesn't have to be that kind of shooter, but if we just keep the ball moving and just set the example for um this this undying effort.
SPEAKER_01I'm just trying to think what those pick and rolls and pick and pops with Anthony Davis is gonna look like, man. That's gonna be crazy.
SPEAKER_02All of the divers to the rim are gonna be nuts. They the guys you can just have wide open off on the corners for for shots. There's a lot of possibilities.
SPEAKER_01Exciting times. It's it's gonna be so much fun right now.
SPEAKER_03It's it's crazy. Like, like, like, like we were saying earlier, like compared to this team from you know last year or a couple years ago, you know, and it's just like look at this. It's like they've turned this around, not that it doesn't take them that much time if you really look at it, you know. Like this this roster, right? Trey on AB AJ alone is crazy. And then you add like um another year of experience for these other young guys that were already there, like Saur and Trey Johnson and them and Keyshawn, they're all getting better, right? So it's just like it's kind of hard to even conceptualize how how good they'll be, you know.
SPEAKER_02Even you know, we we said this comparing last year's Summer League roster. Yeah, then they were preparing for a regular season that was going to be manned by guys like CJ and Middleton as like the starters, and now Middleton is back as like window dressing just a year later. And it's not like his game has drastically changed, but there's just so many more options they've gotten so quickly.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's um if you guys had to kind of predict, you know, based on what we've seen so far, sort of sort of the stats for both Trey and AJ, how they work off of each other. What do you think?
SPEAKER_01Um if I'm being realistic, I have AJ at like 17.3 points per game. I'm like just trying to be realistic. 20 20 as a rookie is just extremely hard unless you are the bona fide first option. And there's gonna be a lot of teams. Yeah, especially this team when you have so many weapons here. So I'm thinking like 17.3 points per game for AJ. Trey, I could see somewhere around 21.5, somewhere in that range.
SPEAKER_02I think you could aim a bit higher. That's probably those are both 16 to 18 range is is good for AJ, I think. Um for Trey Young, I feel like you could go up to like 23 just for all of all of the attention he's gonna he's gonna draw.
SPEAKER_01You're not gonna see the Trey Young that's averaging 30 on this team. You're just gonna average he's every every night, it's not like he's the first option now. Uh, every game, there's gonna be a different first option between Anthony Davis, Trey Young, and AJ Devonta.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, with that said, the offense is gonna start with him. And if anyone else is ever uh inactive or unavailable, Trey Young is this season aside almost always there and ready to play. So he is fully willing to take whatever is is there for the night and put it on his shoulders.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's um well, also how many uh assists is Trey gonna get? Because we know that that's you know that's gonna be a big thing.
SPEAKER_01I think it gets double digits, just being honest with wow. Well, it's mainly because he uh he always thrives when he has a a good big men beside him. He has two great starting big men.
SPEAKER_02That's true. I believe you they will need some good spacing to take the most advantage. Because I when I think of double-digit assists, I think you're running one of like the best offenses in the game, but I'm not sure the wizards are presently. My worry with them has always been I wish they had more guys who could play offense and defense. I feel like they have a lot of guys who are good shooters or good runners who can't do it in the end or the round, like good specialists who aren't the best forward spacers. I feel like they will need some developments on that end of guys becoming a bit more versatile. But I I would imagine, you know, you can see Tra I can see him like getting like I don't know, eight eight assists per game.
SPEAKER_01Is that oh I don't know. I think that's low. That's too well. I think I think you're underestimating it a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Just what am I underestimating?
SPEAKER_01So that 2021, 22, 22 season.
SPEAKER_02Well, go to the 21 season, that was when they made the 2020, 2021.
SPEAKER_01He averaged 9.4. We know that offense. It wasn't like they had the weapons that Washington has, right? But by let's say pick you had much higher usage than than you will now. He did, but like I also mentioned, this was his highest assist uh rate or usage rate.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And like, you know, like the lowest usage rate and his highest, you know, percentage of assists, yeah, before the wizards in these five games.
SPEAKER_02Maybe I I think a lot of this depends on how good the rest of his teammates are to do that now. I think this season might be for some of the other prospects, not named AJ, who may be ready for immediately for all we know, a lot of them might need a bit more time to fit into what he needs. Um who knows? Maybe he will get double digits. I'm trying, I'm trying to make sure.
SPEAKER_01And it's just like the less shots he's been taking, naturally, the higher his assists have gone up. I mean, he took um the third least amount of shots per game in his career um in 2024, 2025, uh 18 a game, and it was the most assist he's ever averaged in his career at 11.6, almost at 12.
SPEAKER_02There's hope. Maybe he can. It's not it's not ridiculous. But I think he will need some more ready teammates. What do you think, Josh? Are we are we who's you think we're going too low or too high?
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, I'm kind of in the middle. I would say Trey gets like nine-point something assists. And the only thing is I think that the starting lineup lacks three-point shooting a little bit. Um, because you know, but he won't always be with the starters.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know, but but well, I know, but I'm saying three-point jump from like Sarah or I mean Trey Johnson, but you know. That that would help. But like, even if you have those guys, you need probably a bunch of guys who can play really good defense. And as we're saying, not a whole lot of those good defenders can do a ton of offense.
SPEAKER_01I just don't think he's gonna get assists from you know three-point shooting, though. Like, I just think it's gonna be mostly like ripples. It's gonna be screens, uh, it's gonna be screens and cutters that he's gonna find for assists.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but a lot of that collapses if you don't have like good floor space. Otherwise, they know that the book's out. Like, yeah, but if you have tray, then you don't have a ton of offense everywhere else, I think. Because you if you have if the if you have the trays, you probably need good defenders to make sure that no funny bus is going on in the backcourt. So maybe who knows? Maybe maybe some guys will learn to be really good too. Maybe that's where AJ comes in for all we know.
SPEAKER_03Maybe close to that. Maybe. But the the thing is about the cutting and the screening is like that will work, but also if you're not shooting threes enough, the defense will pick up, you know. So it's it's like that that's the only thing. It's like I want to see the balance. Just because a lot of it is just like, you know, if like AJ's gotta, you know, work minus three, we know that. Like A D and Star, you know, it's they're just gonna hit like you know, 30% at best, probably, right? So it's like that's the kind of thing where it's like, okay, then like Henry said, Trey, uh, Trey, Trey can come in off the bench, but then his defense isn't great either, you know. So it's like, okay, you know, that's where it's like it feels like they're always losing something when they gain something, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02They need to bounce. Yeah, I agree with you. So he definitely has like the chance to, you know, maybe lead the league in assists. It's definitely, you know, it's in his blood. He's done it before. He he almost always like there's like like through the last four seasons or something, like he's he's like led the league in total assists or something like that. He's he's always gonna get his county stats.
SPEAKER_0111.6 assists with less weapons than you know in Atlanta, but he does now. It's impressive. That that's where I'm looking at, where it's like he's averaging all these assists with, and like this is no shade to John Collins, but John Collins was his second option. And he was averaging you know 10 assists then. Like that's that alone is impressive. Now you're going from John Collins and rookie year Jalen Johnson, who wasn't that great in his rookie year, to now Anthony Davis, AJ DeBonta, Alex Saar, See Sean George.
SPEAKER_02Do you expect any like potential growing pains getting in the way, or do you think he's gonna be fine?
SPEAKER_01No, I think he's gonna be fine. I I don't see any growing pains for um Trey. I see growing pains with AD. I think that's gonna take some time getting used to for him a little bit. Um, because he's never really played with a true passer like Trey, in my opinion. Not not to the extent Trey. Trey's Trey's a much better passer than LeBron. Like, I'm not saying LeBron's, you know, Trey's a better player than LeBron. I'm just saying pure passing standpoint.
SPEAKER_02No, you'd have to give your podcast Mike a gear with something like that. I well, it's worth noting, LeBron did lead the league in assists uh the year they won the title with A.
SPEAKER_01He did, he did. I'm just saying, like, from a finding someone in the perfect spot, setting them up perfectly, knowing where they want it. He hasn't played with someone that might train that.
SPEAKER_02Trey Young is a better pick and roll entry passer, I'll give you that. I think one of the knocks against Trey though is that he doesn't always play within the game. And that's where I think LeBron takes some of the cake, as LeBron is just he always knows what the situation calls for. But if you want someone to feed a big man and just make sure you're saying 20 points, there's Trey.
SPEAKER_01That's what I'm saying here, where it's like AD's never had someone like that. He just hasn't.
SPEAKER_02Are we are we including the the games of Ronda we had? Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01He just he just hasn't.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, I yeah, I know what Rice can means. It's like this style of pass or this this this type of passing. Yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01Whereas like I think I think AJ is gonna you know thrive with Trey. I think you know some of the other guys are going to do great with him, and we saw that in a few short five games with him on the team. It's just A D, he is 33 years old and hasn't played, like I said, with a passer like Trey, where it's like it'll take a few games for him to actually get used to that and learn. It's like, oh, this is what a point guard's supposed to be like.
SPEAKER_03Maybe I would say Trey gets like 23 points a game, nine point something assists, and then AJ. I agree, it's around around 17 points.
SPEAKER_01Um it's just hard to average 20 as a rookie.
SPEAKER_03We have many options, as we said. That's the thing, because this team is gonna be good. It's not gonna be like, you know, a team that it's it's not it's not like the Kings were A Cups, like shoot all the time. Yeah, so so you know, it's not like it's just it's just hard conditions for AJ to average 20. But I think he can definitely still be in the rookie of the year conversation.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. It's just I think I think he needs to average 17 if he wants to be in that rookie of the year comp uh competition, and they have to have a winning record. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Now, Josh, with game two looming on Sunday, what are some things you're looking for?
SPEAKER_03Guard up on on Acuff, because he's he's kind of hasn't been shooting that well so far in his summer league. I want to see like if like John Muir can like continue doing what he did to DP, like that's gonna be exciting because it's all right. This dude kind of just locks everyone up.
SPEAKER_01On a two-way deal.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, right. So it's all right. This guy has to be a rotation guy too. But I know I know they've got a million players, but if it's if you can just lock up the first options, I mean, obviously it's different when you know you're gonna face like the big the big guns in the NBA, but even like I remember last season he he he he guarded Donovan Mitchell pretty well, you know. Like he heard Harden a lot. What happened?
SPEAKER_02I thought he had some good runs against Harden when he's still a clipper.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, it's like he he's done well against like some of the big main guys, and it's like, all right, like you can't waste that, you know. I mean, I know that the the the rotation's crowded, but it's it's it's gonna be crazy to see, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02So it might be crowded, but if you have a guy who can do that against Darren Peterson in the fourth play.
SPEAKER_03No, that's the thing. It's like when it's crowded, you need guys to like show like, okay, you can't take me off. Like, I I have to.
SPEAKER_01That's a big thing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's the only thing. Yeah. Um wizards for that matter. Yeah, and then I want to see, I just want to see AJ shoot from the outside. Well, shoot better from the outside, you know. Um it's kind of a situation where we've seen it with other young wizards players where their their their form and their arc isn't really there yet, you know, so just keep keep working on that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you wonder how much that changes if his release point is gonna stay that low, but he's not gonna go for five every game. You you're right. He's gonna have some moment where he's gonna finish one of those highlights. You don't have to be Steph Curry, just you know, hit two or five.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02He's a rookie, like you don't have you don't have to set some kind of record right now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. We can all be cut. Because it's like as as good as he was last game, he could he'll be ten times better if he like actually it's more of a threat from outside.
SPEAKER_01Maybe he's become like a 36% three-point shooter. I'll take that. Yeah, I don't I don't I don't know.
SPEAKER_02That's like I wouldn't anything higher feels like almost unrealistic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'm I'm saying like, you know, for his career at 36% three-point shooters.
SPEAKER_02That's that's about as good as I'd hope for.
SPEAKER_01And so like that'd just be that'd be awesome because like and I was talking with um Henry on the way back where it's like we're trying to figure out like what his game encapsulates the most. And it's like you watch how he plays. I'm not saying they are the same player. Sorry. It reminds me a lot of Shea. It really does with the footwork, getting to the rim, getting to the free throw line. It's just very Shea-like.
SPEAKER_02You know, you know who my comp is? I'll give you a hint, he's a former Knicks legend. Former Knicks legend. Yeah. Really? Tracy McGrady. That's the comp. Yeah. The T Mac comp gets thrown around a lot. Like he hates that Knicks record. I think he gets thrown around a lot. I think this is the first worthy T Mac comp we've had in the modern era.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I it's funny. I never think of T Mac is a Knicks guy, but it's it's true. Like, it's uh, you know, I I yeah, the the T Mac and Shay have both been thrown around. Uh, it's funny because Shay isn't like an above-the-rim guy the way AJ can be. No. But it's it's the it's the foul thing, you know, if you want to control it.
SPEAKER_01It's the majority of how he plays, the mid-range, getting to the rim, because they're both amazing at getting to the rim, and it's the footwork. The footwork is just amazing for a rookie.
SPEAKER_02The finishing defeat, they they both had it already.
SPEAKER_03AJ AJ had this one play where he didn't he didn't hit the shot, but it was like he like he like got to the block and then like like faded away spun and like on DP, right? On Peterson. Yeah, I know you're gonna do it. That's fine. Like it's DP flying.
SPEAKER_01And then like that that two-hand jam that he had where they had four guys on him trying to stop him that playoff.
SPEAKER_03Like it's just that he knows where to work in space. He's very he's very powerful. Like, it's just like it's just you can't really if as soon as he gets like a full head of steam or like any kind of really if he gets any kind of run towards the rim going, it's tough.
SPEAKER_01It's just been really impressive watching him. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02One summer league game.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so about as fun of one game as we can ask for wanting some wizard basket. And this next one might be his last with how well he's playing. Yeah, we might not even see Trey Johnson next game.
SPEAKER_02You never I'd assume they come out for one more, but you never know. They both they all look like they're very perhaps overqualified for summer league ball.
SPEAKER_01Too good for summer league, as Tyler Rufford would say.
SPEAKER_03I I think uh Riley should play more.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Definitely.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I want him to play more simply to learn how to be more of a point guard. That's the funny one.
SPEAKER_03You know, I I just I don't know if he's ever gonna be like a like a point guard the way that fans play.
SPEAKER_01I yeah, I get what you're saying. I just like this the bench needs a facilitator. It does. And Will Riley is their best option at the moment for a bench facilitator. I just want to see him play more to kind of you know learn how to be a better passer.
SPEAKER_02It seems like they're definitely breeding the young guys for that. They didn't run an obvious point guard out to sorry the summer league game, and you know, AJ and Will and the other guys are sort of alternating, you know, who's gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_01They they rarely went back-to-back possessions of someone running the point.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so it seems like they are prepping for the idea of platoon-style playmaking off the bench.
SPEAKER_03And it's like, you know, this this this is like we said before, this is gonna be Bob's chance to be like, all right, like this is kind of your path to like getting real minutes on this team, right? Because it's like if you're just talking about shooting off the bench, they do have, you know, Trey, you know, Trey, the younger Trey for that, right? So it's like, you know, Bob's a great three-point shooter, but it's like you can't be too redundant. That's another thing with this team. Is like they got some guys with kind of similar skill sets. I feel the same about Jamir and Bilal a little bit too, so defensively. So um it's like, all right, you got to stand out where it's like you're bringing something that is kind of a void, and it's like a backup facilitator, you know, is a void on this team. So it's you know, who whoever is better at that between Bub and Will, I think it's gonna get the inside track to be ahead in the rotation. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that's it for me, man. We've it's a long episode.
SPEAKER_03That's okay.
SPEAKER_02There was things actually happened. We had we had good things to talk about today. There's a lot, there's a lot going on. Yeah, of course. Take care of the East Coast sports while we're gone, all right, Josh?
SPEAKER_01Yes, sir. Well, thank you guys. Thank you everyone for tuning in, listening as always, and we'll see you in the next one. Peace.