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All Wizards Talk
The Wizards Disrespect Has Gotten Insane
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Bryson Akins, Josh Valdez, and Henry Brown talk about all the disrespect the national media has given the Washington Wizards in the past month.
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All Wizards Talk is your go-to podcast for everything regarding the Washington Wizards. This show is hosted by beat writers Bryson Akins and Henry Brown of Wizards on SI, and Joshua Valdez of FanSided. They bring inside knowledge of the team, along with in-depth topics from press conferences and games.
Welcome back to another episode of All Wizards Talk. I'm one of your co-hosts, Bryce Snake, just joined alongside, as always, by Josh Valdez and Henry Brown. I'm back. I was on a little bachelor trip. You guys did not want me on the last podcast episode. I would not have been able to get any coherent thoughts out. But we are back, ready to go. Appreciate Josh Henry holding it down while I was gone. And in the meantime, while I was on that bachelor trip, all right. Anytime I had a little bit of free time, I would get on social media and just check what's going on with the Wizards. All right, what's what's going on? And there's been a trend of like the last three weeks where everyone has just been destroying, just pooping on the Wizards, basically. Just talking to as much crap as they can. And it doesn't really make sense. All of a sudden, they get the first overall pick. They get Anthony Davis, who's one of the best power forwards that ever played this game. All right. And then Trey Young, who is, you know, one of the best playmaking guards, you know, at least passing wise, in the NBA right now. All right. And all of a sudden, people want to talk about the Wizards that haven't been keeping up with the Wizards for the past five years because they didn't care. And it shows, it shows what their thoughts are. And so today we're just going to air out our thoughts on all of the horrible takes we have seen this offseason so far, starting with a lovely group over at Bleacher Report. I know a lot of people have thoughts on Bleacher Report. All right. I know I'm sounding like Donald Trump a little bit saying this. Frankly, Bleacher Report, it's you sound more like Larry David talking about, you know, it's a problem. Okay. All right. All right. All right. I see that. But Bleacher Report, a while back, they did their ranking of the starting fives for every NBA team. And the Wizards, a lot of people, you know, joined in the offseason after they got the first overall pick. A lot of people were like, oh, this is a good starting five. It's one of the better starting fives in the Eastern Conference, at least. Do you guys know where Bleach Report had the Washington Wizards uh ranked among starting fives? It was in the 20s, right? It was in the 20s. It was in the 20s. They had him at third. They had him at 22nd. The 22nd best starting five in the NBA. A starting five of Trey Young, Keyshawn George, AJ Debonsa, Anthony Davis, and Alex Sarr. Look at this. It's like, how can this be one of the worst starting fives in the NBA when you have a guy when he's healthy is a top 25 player in Anthony Davis? All right, I know keyword health. All right, but you can't use the health excuse when you're talking starting fives when he's playing. All right. True. That is when he is on the court. Okay. Trey Young, who has become, you know, very, you know, hated, I would say, in the past three years. A lot of people don't like Trey Young or his style of play. But when he has a good group of centers around him and he does now, shows that he's a top 50 player in the NBA. AJ Ubantu can come in and already be a top 100 player in the NBA as well. Alex Sarr, who's one of the best defensive big men in the league, and Keyshawn George, who is one of the best kind of role players that you could have as well. How this is a bottom third starting five in the league, I don't get. I don't. Well, give us some of the teams that are just above them. So right above them at 21 is the New Orleans Pelicans. Which that alone should not have you talk about basketball ever again. Who's in that who's in that start? They don't have Poole in the starting lineup, do they? No, they have DeJounte Murray, Trey Murphy, Herb Jones, Zion, and Derek Queen. I don't I don't see how that's a better starting five than the Wizards.
SPEAKER_01It's not bad, it's not better than the Wiz.
SPEAKER_00No, it's not better than the Wiz. Then they have the Phoenix Suns at 20, which you can make the argument because of you know their big three of Booker, Green, and Brooks. You you could make you could make the argument. You could, but I personally don't see it because Jalen Green, while he's a great offensive player, he does tend to turn well on defense. I like Jalen Green on offense at least.
SPEAKER_02I know, but great offensive player.
unknownI think he is.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think I think great is stretching it.
SPEAKER_00I think he's okay. Okay, never mind then. Never mind then. Help my case a little bit then. Help my case a little bit then. Um then Miles Bridges at the four and Mark Williams as their starting center. I just don't see how that is a better starting five than the Wizards either. And then another big one that I hate a lot of it is just because of legacy. Um is the Warriors at 19th. Like, sure, you have Steph Curry, all right? But then your starting lineup is Roundup of you know, pods. Like, we really saying pods elevates this team that much to be better than the Wizards when you also have Yaxel who will start at the three, Draymond Green, who starts at the four, and Chris Dops at the five. I'm still taking the Wizards over that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't I don't like the Warriors.
SPEAKER_00I guess they can't say Jimmy. And like Orlando at 18, which like I can kind of get like you can make the argument, you know, and this is where like the rest of the teams from here on out, I can kind of see where it's like, yeah, you can make the argument of them, you know, being ahead of the Wizards or them at the same level. Trailblazers at 17. Once again, I can kind of see that with adding John Morant to that lineup when you already have Damian Lillard coming back from injury when they had him in the starting five. Donovan Klingon, he is a good rising young center as well. Uh Kamara um at the three, not a bad role player to have there either to round it out. Lakers at 16, which I'm surprised they had him, you know, that low because a lot of people tend to boost up the Lakers mainly because of the.
SPEAKER_02I know, but come on, that offseason of theirs was so weird.
SPEAKER_00It was so weird. It was a good offseason, it was just weird. They brought in they brought in a lot of good role players, and then this is one that also had me a little like distraught. They had Utah at 15 when you look on paper, the Jazz and the Wizards are very similar teams. Like with how they're built.
SPEAKER_01They put them seven spots ahead. That's wild.
SPEAKER_00That's what's wild to me is like they are pretty much on the same time frame, they have the same kind of roster makeup and build, same level of players and all their position, where it's like it doesn't make sense to have the Jazz at 15, but yet the Wizards at 22 when they are eerily similar.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the Jazz have uh Lori and Jaron Jackson as like their their you know proven star vets.
SPEAKER_00Well, they didn't even have Jaron Jackson starting.
unknownWhat?
SPEAKER_00What they they had Yusuf Nurkic starting at the five.
SPEAKER_02All right, I've heard enough. So moving past that. What I think, I think if you're talking about, I mean, you you mentioned it, 80 and trade is they're not in good reputational spots. It's how they got to DC, it's how they arrived here for so cheap on the dog.
SPEAKER_00Hilo guys.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I think this is a matter of most of those teams you named, except for the Jazz, which is an interesting case, um, have made the playoffs recently, um, or you know, maybe one around, like the Warriors did two years ago. And I think it's a matter of no one's seen the Wizards yet. You look at it, the the starting lineup, there are some fits that still haven't been determined yet. You don't know how Treyon can play with the young guys. You don't know how AJ's gonna adjust to being this sort of role player-ish rising star type guy where he's sort of stuck between roles. You don't know how Sar and Keyshawn are gonna do with the Bretter Lights. I think it's they look at this lineup and think of the questions that haven't been answered as opposed to what they could do together.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, I wonder I want to read off what their reasoning was for Washington at 22. All right. And kind of showcase just why this is just so wrong for where they put them, all right? The Washing Wizards starting five finally looks like a real NBA team for the first time in years, which, yeah, I agree. It finally looks like a real team. They're ready to compete a little bit, all right? No more young guys or players that are trying to still fight for their way in the NBA now. Okay. Davis and Young have 14 all-star trips between them, and Devonta was a number one overall pick this summer. That's a nice starting point before filling in two more members of the Wizards Young Corps. Yeah, nice starting point. Can't disagree. This is when it gets a little weird. Saar should be safe at center. It's not, it shouldn't be a should. Who are they gonna start over SAR? Who are they gonna start over?
SPEAKER_02Well, are you moving that from a ladder perspective or from like an actual full-time or are they talking about him as a full-time center against you know other NBA teams?
SPEAKER_00I think they and then they say ensuring Davis can slide over to the four after that. So I'm assuming as a full-time five is what they're saying. But it's it's not should be safe, is he is yeah, no, his his position as a starter is unassailable.
SPEAKER_02It's a matter of you know how he'll do as a skinnier guy on the on the boards. If you're talking about that, maybe, but I feel like they're talking about in terms of like I mean it's it's not clear enough either way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So yeah. But this this this final sentence is what gets me where it's like, oh, they have no clue about what's actually been going on behind the scenes with the Wizards, all right? We could see a battle between George, Trey Johnson, and Bub Carrington for the starting shooting guard spot next to Trey Young.
SPEAKER_02So this is, to me, the biggest dog whistle red flag someone can have, but they haven't really been quite locked in. And this isn't meant to disparage Bub standing within the organization or the or the rotation.
SPEAKER_00No, and like we should we should like clarify like I love Bub. He is one of my personal favorites on the Wizards. I think he's a great player. I think he gets a lot of unnecessary hate. I think he's gonna be a key offensive role player off the bench for the Wizards for the next few seasons.
SPEAKER_02Could be, but he is just not in the same running. Like it's it's it's it was Keyshawn and Trey for a bit, and now it's like Keyshawn is just better at most things. Like he's a tick uh smaller as a pull-up three-point shooter, but he's bigger, he can play defense, um, he's a really good playmaker. It's like Bub is just farther from the rotation than I think a lot of people assume, given that he plays everyone's recognizable guy.
SPEAKER_00It's just also the fact that they also didn't include Balal in that kind of like it's if you're gonna include any third guy, it's Bilal. Yeah, if you include any third guy, it's Bilal or Justin. It's one of those two guys that you're gonna include for that battle. All right. And like we said, this is no, this is no shade to Bub. I like I said, I personally love him. All right. I'm trying to buy out as much card stock as I can with Bub right now. That is how much I believe in the guy. Okay. But it's just not close. Like, he's not even considered for that starting five roll right now. He just isn't.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_02He just no, a Trey Young and Bub Carrington um one, two. Uh man, that would be insane. Like, they'll probably turn to that at some point, but I just can't imagine that'll give some of the defense that they're looking for with that you'd have in Keyshawn or AJ.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, my my thing is it's easy to look at the roster and like, oh, like, yeah, this looks like this guy could start. But it's like, no, if you really don't know what's going on, you're just gonna look at the nails on a roster for that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, these guys could battle it out. It's like Bob Carrington was a lottery pick. He should be in that running, right? And he's again never missed a game.
SPEAKER_02So you assume he's gonna be a feature.
SPEAKER_00It's just it's so it's so weird, like where they're like ranking some of these teams where it's like I'm trying not to like put too much thought into it because they also have Dallas at 23rd, which I don't agree with that either. What's the thing?
SPEAKER_02What's the Dallas five, if you mind telling us?
SPEAKER_00They have Kyrie, Max Christie, Cooper Flag, PJ Washington, Derek Lively to second, but it's really Daniel Gafford that should start at the five.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, well, well, because you said health isn't the isn't a factor in your starting fives.
SPEAKER_00Even with health, I'd rather have Gafford over Lively. That's just me. Maybe. That that's that's just me. Um, but like, even you know, that starting five, just adding Kyrie back alone, you know, Dallas already had one of the worst rosters in the NBA last season. I think Blinch Report had him at like 25. Adding Kyrie only moves him up to 23.
SPEAKER_02Again, he Kyrie is getting the Wizards attacks right now, where no one knows what they're gonna get with him.
SPEAKER_00It's just it is just so like it's the fact that there are teams like the Pelicans and Warriors that they put ahead of the Wizards, where it's like, what like outside of like one or two players, what do those teams have? All right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the the the Warriors one makes a bit more sense if you just still believe in like the Curry Draymond Warriors DNA still deep down in there. But like, I mean, the Pelicans, I mean, this is like what an interesting time to buy in on them. I mean, last year they were one of the worst teams and they weren't tanking at all, like the whole season. And they didn't do it.
SPEAKER_00And they haven't done anything. Yeah. They I I think they made no offseason moves, yet somehow the same roster as last season is better than a completely revamped Wizard starting five.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I gotta, I gotta, we gotta be careful here that we just don't sound like the biggest wizards homers ever. But I I just think that they're they're getting they're getting taxed with it with a different kind of uh expectation.
SPEAKER_01Here's the thing it's that, you know, it's not that we're saying that they should be top 10 ranked or whatever.
SPEAKER_00It's just that they they need to be in the plane range, you know, whereas like we're not saying they're a Miami Heat team, all right, like level of that starting five. We're not saying they're a Lakers level of starting five, all right? We're saying they're around that 18-19 range, all right? No reason that they should be considered one of the bottom third teams in the league regarding starting five. I'm sure they think the same thing with the rotation as well, because they probably don't realize how good Will Riley was as a rookie. They probably don't realize that Justin Champagne is, you know, one of the best role players in the NBA when you talk about impact to winning on the court. It's just a bunch of stuff like that. It's just kind of showing like, and this is my whole point with this is this list just shows how little the national media has paid attention to the Washington Wizards, and like I can't blame them. Like Wizards haven't been putting on much to watch for the past three years, like you can't blame them, but it's also you can't all of a sudden start talking on these teams when you haven't been watching, especially at the Jazz, who have been in a very similar situation to the Wizards, no one paid attention to them, and have them seven spots ahead. Yet it is an eerily similar starting five. If they played in a seven-game series, it's going to seven games.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the the media wants to have it both ways where they didn't watch, but they want to act like they know, you know, and it's like, look, yeah, it's one thing to not know as much about a losing team in and not the biggest market, but it's like, okay, when you say that Bob Carrington is in contention to start, you know, over other guys, it's like, all right, that is just unfortunately is just showing that you don't know. And it's like, if you're gonna put out this analysis that people are reading, and then people believe it, you know. That's the problem. That's what we were saying off camera. So it's like you're putting out this analysis that is misleading people, like Bub Carrington's not starting unless you know other guys get hurt.
SPEAKER_02So for the jazz thing, I think, and it's funny because they got they got Darren Peterson and you know, bully for them.
SPEAKER_00But um And they didn't even have their best starting five out there. They didn't they didn't even they had Yusuf Nurkic over Jaron Jackson Jr.
SPEAKER_02That makes yeah, that's that's that's baloney. Um I I think um I'm not even sure Darren Peterson like solved some of their lineup problems that they had last year. Like he's not like he's not really gonna pass a ton, and there aren't really many guys on the team who are gonna pass at all. And I think it's a bit of Danny Ainge bias, if I had to guess, because everyone assumes he's like he has a plan and and he's you know he he tricked everyone by getting DP second in ace five last year. But I I don't know. I think the only case for them being better than uh the Wizards, uh distinctly at least, is the Western Conference mid-level is just mushier than the East. Darren can pass, though. He'd pass in high school pretty well. Uh it's a matter of like how trans to me, it's about how you go to the NBA level still passing. Listen, I I liked his passing. I I thought he was my favorite prospect. But um that's high school. That's the thing. You have to I'm trying to balance like what we saw at that level with what you know he can do two levels up. It's gonna be an adjustment, of course. I mean yeah. That's the thing. You're pinning this this necessary need on a rookie who's adjusting to the league, and that's that's when I don't know, 15 times. So who else is in the jet starting five? It's gonna be so it's it's I assume it's uh Keontae George, Keontae George, Darren Peterson, Lori Marknon.
SPEAKER_00Oh no, they had Jaron Jackson Jr. in there. I completely missed out.
SPEAKER_01Yusuf Nurkic at the five, but like I feel like that's still wrong.
SPEAKER_00I feel like there's just guys just missing.
SPEAKER_01Wait, so it's Keontae, Darren, Lori, JJJ, who's the other who's the fifth?
SPEAKER_00Yusuf Nurkic. Where it's like I would move Laurie to the four, Jaron Jackson to the five, and have Ace Bailey start.
SPEAKER_02The thing is, Jaron Jackson Jr. doesn't rebound, and that's it makes the five thing a bit more complicated.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it's a good one. He sort of needs to be next to a five.
SPEAKER_02The Memphis showed he sort of needs to be next to a five.
SPEAKER_01I kind of I kind of compare Ace on their bench to like uh the Wizards not starting a Trey.
SPEAKER_02It's it's those two have such similarities between their over their career so far.
SPEAKER_00I can I can see that just to me, it just that starting five should not be basically where they're putting them as a bona fide play on playoff team, is what they have them basically at with their ranking, should not be that much higher than the Wizards, who by their ranking are the 10th seed in the East, basically.
SPEAKER_02I think a lot of people still think it's 2022 and they're not a hundred percent locked in on the draft picks.
SPEAKER_00I think a lot of people I think a lot of people still have that thought of Alex Starr's rookie year in their mind instead of actually what he showed last year. Because when I see people It's that one summer league game. Yeah, when I see people yeah, when I see people talking about Alex Star, yeah, they keep talking about him as he's this inefficient big man where it's like you look at his rookie season, yes, he was inefficient. He's also taken more outside shots than he should have been. You know what he goes, yeah, you notice he goes inside this season and his efficiency really jumped. Or it's like, oh my goodness, a center who dominates down low stops taking four threes a game and goes down in the paint and really focuses on those shots instead, all of a sudden is a 50% shooter from the field. Who would have thought? Who would have thought that is possible? Oh my goodness. We solved basketball, ladies and gentlemen. We solved basketball. Basketball is safe.
SPEAKER_02Pre-all-star numbers were were very good.
SPEAKER_00But it's like just looking at the you know where they like ranked the Eastern Conference wash rosters they have. Bucks 15, Nets 14. What? Hold on. Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were I thought this is still top 30 I thought Bucks. No, no, no, no. Like by Eastern Conference, like right in the starting lineups. Bucks 15. Whose rank was this one now? Like going like how they would have the starting fives like ranked in the Eastern Conference. Okay. All right, Bucks 15, Nets 14, um, Bulls 13, Hornets 12. Then they have the Wizards, which would be 11th, missing the play in. That's dark.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I was saying a lot of people got the Wizards missing the play in the general. Um, like in a bunch of rankings. That's what I I put a piece L yesterday about that. I mean, it's which I think is kind of unbelievable, you know, considering the amount of talent they have. But I but I just think a lot of people, again, don't know the amount of talent is on the team, even with Trey Young and AD.
SPEAKER_02They don't get and I think it's gonna be a high variance kind of team. The fact that you're pinning your hopes on AD, who hasn't been super durable, and Trey Young, who you don't really know 100% can fit on this sort of thing. They're they're an easy team to sort of pick on and say, if anyone has to miss it, it'll probably be them because they're unproven. They've they haven't done anything yet. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's just it's so weird, but you mentioned that where it's like a lot of people have the Wizards missing the play-in in general as well. Michael Pina over at the Ringards at his like you know, top 15 rankings for the Eastern Conference, all right. He had the Wizards 13th in the East. 13th. He had he had the Nets above them at 12. And his whole list, by the way, is like it, it's it's not great. And I have made it publicly known that if the Nets have a better season than the Wizards this coming season, I will like, I'll eat ox tongue live on the pod. I will like there is no way, like, everything would have to go wrong with the Wizards seasons. They would have to trade H.J. DeBonsa, Anthony Davis would have to have a season-ending injury. Trey Young would say, F it, I'm playing my own style of ball here. Alex Starr would have to go back to his rookie season, Bub Carrington would have to get 32 minutes a game. Like all that, all that stuff would have to happen for the Wizards to have a worse season than the Brooklyn Nets, who have two ball-dominant players and Michael Porter Jr., who never passes the ball, and Julius Randle, who is a horrible ball handler but still tries to attack the rim like he owns it. And then you're not you're also not developing Mikhail Brown, who you just just got, Danny Wolf, like all these other guys, Yeagor, like it's it's horrible over there. How do you have them at 12 above the Wizards at 13? But his whole list is ridiculous. Miami at 11, Charlotte at 10, which Charlotte, it's hard to justify after the moves they made this offseason that they're still a play-in team. And then all of a sudden, Indiana 9, who's adding Tyrese Halliburton into the mix, along with Zubak, where it's like, I don't see that at all how they're a play-in team. But you have the Boston Celtics at 2. You have the 76ers at 7th, a play-in team?
SPEAKER_01Wait a minute. Was this after they got Braun? He got he's got them at 7th.
SPEAKER_00This was after they got Braun. This was on August 7th that he made this list. August 7th, he made this list, and he has the Sixers 7. He has he has the Hawks as a better team.
SPEAKER_02That I don't know. Don't buy. I I get I sort of I get the nebulous idea that the Sixers won't be like breaking 55 wins or something just because you know you're not gonna ride LeBron and then beat for million games, but he's just gonna have Maxi and Jalen Brown the whole time. Those are two pretty durable teams. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like it's it is still like it is a great roster where it's like you're looking at it right now. The top two teams in the East are the Sixers and Knicks. Those those are the top two teams in the East. Having the Sixers in the play in is blasphemous, let alone you know, nothing higher than five is insane to do.
SPEAKER_02Were there any explanations for this ranking, or was it just here's 15 names?
SPEAKER_00Uh he did it on a podcast. I haven't listened, but like even just looking at the list, like no reasoning explains why you should have a the Brooklyn Nets better than the Washington Wizards. All right. I don't even have them better as than the Chicago Bulls.
SPEAKER_02Like the Bulls might be interesting. I get it. And then you have I'm more excited about their team than the Nets.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00And then you have Detroit at third in the East, which, like, I get they finished as the first seed this last season. I get it. What do they do this offseason to really maintain that they're going to win 60 games and be a dominant team in the East?
SPEAKER_02I think they'll be able to shoot now. I think I think we talked about that on another podcast. I think they actually did good on getting some shooters, but it's still a lot of Cade. They got a lot of Cade.
SPEAKER_00They got one shooter. They got a few. They got Isaiah Joan.
SPEAKER_02Isaiah Joe and who John Collins can shoot for a big guy. For a big guy. Is he a shooter? Is he a shooter, Henry? He's a guy who will shoot threes in that team.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I think shooter means.
SPEAKER_02I don't mean he they got JJ Reddick. I'm not talking about shooting specialists. I'm talking about guys who can now shoot on their team.
SPEAKER_01But is John Collins like spacing the floor? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02John Collins was like pretty good in LA last year.
SPEAKER_00Is but let's let's put it this way: Is John Collins and Isaiah Joe enough to make sure that they still finish with 55 plus wins and get the third seed? 55 would be a lot. It's going to be a lot of Cade. Because that means that they would have to finish above a few of these teams in this list of the Sixers, the Pacers, the Raptors, the Cavs, maybe even the Celtics or Knicks.
SPEAKER_02I think the Celtics are going to finish higher. Or the Celtics, he has them at like what 50-something wins? He has them at second. Yeah, that would be like in the 51. I mean, they'll still probably crank out like a million wins in the regular season, but I don't know. I I think if the if the Pistons can recreate that, it's just going to be, I mean, Cade's is going to be slaving away like every night. Like what we saw in the regular season. Like that one Wizards game they played, the Pistons Wizards game where he had like 55 or something. There's going to be a few games like that.
SPEAKER_00My my issue with it is like, yes, while the Pistons did add a shooter in Isaiah Joe and a versatile player in John Collins. I'm not going to say he's a shooter. I'll take what I can get. He he he'll shoot the ball. He'll shoot the ball. But that's not what he's known to be or do.
SPEAKER_01I'm just not scared of John Collins 3, man. I don't think he can hit the call.
SPEAKER_00I don't think anyone is. Doesn't scare me as an opponent. Like it's not coming back to the opening. I'll put a hand up, but I'm not tracking you. Right. And so but yeah, he had a good season. And like he was someone I wanted the Wizards to try to sign this offseason as well. Like I won't lie about that. I thought he would have been a nice fit, but not as a shooter. He's not, again, he's not Cal Corver, but he's a guy who can space the floor.
SPEAKER_01It's just he can he can improve floor spacing. Yes. He's not someone who Yeah, because the Pistons didn't have any last season.
SPEAKER_02So it's like That's my point. But the question was how'd they get better? There's your answer. It's not that he's gonna give them 10 wins, but okay.
SPEAKER_00You want you want to hear how the Sixers got better? They got LeBron and Jalen Brown for pennies. Listen, I am not backing up that seven ranking. For pennies, for pennies, all right. Cleveland, they're they're pretty much the same team.
unknownAll right.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say careful on Cleveland.
SPEAKER_02I don't want to get too excited about them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Boston, while yes, they traded Jalen Brown. Okay, while yes, they did that. They also brought in Mitchell Robinson. Okay, which is a great pickup, I think, for the Celtics alone, right there. All right. New York, while they did lose Mitchell Robinson, they brought in Andre Drummond, if I'm not mistaken. All right. They still have Oz Alvarado, which Andre Drummond is going to be a good fit in New York. He is. It's still the same starting five. It's the champions. Okay. Atlanta, they still brought they brought back CJ McCollum. They added Kingston Flemings as a rookie to this team. They got better as well. Indiana's getting Tyrese Halliburton back. They're also going to have Zubak. Orlando kind of stayed the same. They lost Mo Wagner, which will hurt them a little bit with their backup center def, but still, they're going to be able to manage. They're still going to be good. They got Vucevic back. And Miami got Giannis, and he doesn't even have them as a play-in team.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I can see the world in which Miami just completely falls off a cliff. I mean, their their bench, their bench is sort of nasty. Yeah, I mean, they don't really have a backcourt. Giannis. They also can't shoot. And Giannis sort of needs shooters. Yeah, I mean, I think they'll make the play-in, though. I do too. But absolutely having a healthy Giannis.
SPEAKER_00It's just a lot of these reasons that I'm like, or I'm not even reasons, but like looking at these rankings where it's like the Wizards had 17 wins last season. All right. Milwaukee and Chicago are going to be in that 20-win range. Okay. If they're finishing 13th, that means they're only getting like 25 wins this next season. You're telling me adding Trey Young, AJ DeBanza, and Anthony Davis to this team. And we didn't even mention, you know, DeAndre Ayton as a backup center, which is a good backup center to have, okay, along with young development, only gets you an extra eight wins. That's what you're telling me? That's what you're telling me? That only gets you an extra eight wins?
SPEAKER_02That's either case. The East is just a blood bell.
SPEAKER_00He did say the East is hell, but once again, that is no reason to have the Brooklyn Nets who did practically nothing to help out with their young development at the 12th. Someone's got to win games. Yeah. Who, which I would rather have, you know, Trey young Anthony Davis all day over Michael Porter Jr. and Julius Randle.
SPEAKER_02I think I'm most intrigued by the Hawks ranking because they represent everything Wizards aren't. They don't have the same high-end question marks. It's not a matter of, you know, are the All-Stars going to fit in or how's AJ gonna do the first overall pick? But the Hawks, we know exactly what they are. They have this exact archetype that they're like surrounding their star guys with. And they got more of them over the offseason. You got Dort, you got um Kingston Flemings, these guys who can just be hounds on defense and give no opposing guards any rest. And we just saw it work. They got to the playoffs, they got a few games off the Knicks. And the Wizards just you have nothing to work with. It's all theoretical. And that's what I think the Wizards, people still think of the Wizards as this hypothetically good team instead of when we're doing a stuff. You should be looking at what they could be together instead of what they've proven.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the Hawks added Aaron Wiggins, they added Lou Torque, Kings and Flemings, like they added good players. They they did. It is it is a very good team in Atlanta, which I think they can shock a lot of people. And instead of B six, where they finished last season as well, they got you know substantially better. They could potentially finish five or four. They they could finish that high. They have that kind of potential. I want to apologize to everyone right now if you hear the lawnmower and weed eaters going on in the background. Um, because for some reason they love to mow my lawn at nine in the morning. Um but all it's just a lot of these reasonings that I'm I keep on saying reasonings. We don't know the full reasonings because I haven't listened to the hour and a half long podcast episode over there. Um but just looking at it, like I said, Indiana 9, like I get you, I understand you can say, Oh, we haven't seen Tyrese Halliburton and Vakazubak, you know, play together. Tyrese Halliburton led this team to the finals in 2025. You think they're just gonna be in the play-in?
SPEAKER_01You're like I mean it's it's possible, but I wouldn't like bank on that.
SPEAKER_02It's possible if like the case is like they're they're easing Halliburton in and not putting too much on his plate because everything goes run around him when he's there.
SPEAKER_00Even then, it's a I think I think this is a better team than they had in 2025. Even then, I think this is a better squad than they had in 2025. Yeah, like it's it's just a lot of this. I get the East is tough. I get it, I get it, I get it. It's just how a lot of these team rankings don't make sense. There, I don't understand how you can say the Philadelphia 76ers are a play-in team.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, yeah, of course they're gonna do some load management with Braun and Embiid, but still, I mean Jalen Brown don't really miss games.
SPEAKER_00They don't really miss games, they're elite. Like, you also have Vijay Edgecombe, who's still gonna be awesome for you. Like, the starting five is arguably the best starting five in the NBA. That alone is not going to have you in the play-in, that's gonna have you in a guaranteed playoff spot. That that alone. That this is what annoys me with these lists, where it's like it's clear, like A, I want to be a contrarian. That's what it is. I want to be a contrarian, I want to be different. Let me let me get my clicks real quick. And insane ratio by uh on him, by the way. 100 likes on his post, two 150 comments, along with 200 uh quote tweets, and 600k views. Like, he just got flamed.
SPEAKER_02That's how you know he did a good job. 100 likes. That's how you know you gotta do a good job.
SPEAKER_00Good rage debate, good rage debate, Michael. I mean, create this podcast what yeah, man.
SPEAKER_01You know, you gotta create that uh interest in what you're doing and being uh, you know, getting um someone where you're outside of the normal, you know, theories, you know, create that uh unique take, I would say, that um gets the people going. It's provocative, right? So did his job.
SPEAKER_00No one knows what that word means though. But that's that's all I want to say on Michael, and then there's one more. Um a guy named A and who AM Hoops made a video about the Washington Wizards and how Anthony Davis is in a weird situation because of him not getting his contract extension. Okay. And his video, uh I know you guys haven't watched it. We talked about before the pod. I watched the full thing, and he said Wizards fans are delusional for thinking this is a play-in team and that this team is gonna make the playoffs. Delusional. He said Wizards fans are delusional. All right, and there have been some fans out there that have made some crazy comments. I saw one person say, I can't wait to watch us beat the Sixers in five games in the playoffs, which is like that is crazy. But if you look at 95% of the fan base, what they have said, their hope is let's be in the play. That is the hope. We have said it multiple times where it's like the hope, be in the play-in. That is a good season. Be in the play in, double your win total. That is a good season, right there. Boom. You you did what you needed to do, you got better. And he was saying that they're delusional for even thinking that they can make the plan, that this is still one of the bottom teams in the league, where it's like, that makes no sense. And he also said part of it is the GM has come out. Will Dawkins has come out and said this is going to be another rebuilding season. You guys have been to the press conferences. When has Will Dawkins ever said that they're going to lose again next season?
SPEAKER_01He said that the train hasn't left the station or whatever, right? He said he said that I believe in February.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. He said it is starting to leave the station and that they are the evaluation stage for contract extensions.
SPEAKER_02Here's what he said. Um, the deconstructive phase is over. That's what he said uh heading into the draft. That the teardown is over. Right.
SPEAKER_01They they have the guys they want. Now they just gotta develop and pick the ones they want out of those.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, see, because some people know they're smart enough to know that they're not gonna go balls to the wall just doing completely reckless moves in the in the in the chase for 45 wins or something. Um, but again, they're not punting anymore. Some of the lineups that people saw out there just aren't gonna exist. Right.
SPEAKER_00It's it's just insane that he said publicly, like, yeah, the Wizards are going to try and lose next season. The general manager has said that. He's never said that. I think everyone can agree.
SPEAKER_02He said that like a year ago, but not for this season.
SPEAKER_00I think everyone can agree that the Wizards this coming season are trying to be a competitive basketball team and win quite a few games because they have the roster they want now.
SPEAKER_02All the people, like 80s at an extension. There's there's no reason to still do that with these guys on the books.
SPEAKER_00No, and this is what gets me. I I delve further into the video. I watch it some more. All right. I finished it, and he said that the Wizards' plan is to keep rebuilding until Young's money is off the books. Do you know when Young is in his final year of his contract?
SPEAKER_012030, right?
SPEAKER_002030. So they're gonna rebuild for another four years.
SPEAKER_02This is like the most dangerous time to try to rebuild or the next three years when the when there's gonna be the theint for the lottery anymore.
SPEAKER_01So what do you think? No, what do you think?
SPEAKER_00So, what's the point of losing games? And he also in his video, he included uh a clip from Good Friend of the Pod, uh, AB over at Locked on Wizards, along with DJ over at Chocolate City Hoops, where like they were talking about what's what's what's what's the plan for the Wizards this season. And he was like, the plan is to be in the playoffs and hopefully get past the first round. He said that's a delusional thought. That is not a delusional thought, that is a clear-headed thought for a team finally out of the playoffs where or uh out of the rebuilding phase, deconstructing it all where it's like, yeah, hey, let's try to get in the playoffs and see if we can make it past the first round.
SPEAKER_02So there was a video of A B and it just said like black and white, delusional.
SPEAKER_00Like, like it was like No, no, it doesn't say that. Like he's calling them delusional for having these thoughts of make the playoffs and try to get past the first round. I don't that's not delusional thinking for a team first year out of a rebuild. Like delusional is saying, yeah, this is an Eastern Conference Finals team. That is delusional. It is hard to go from the worst team in the NBA to instantly being a top four team. It's not hard from being one of the worst teams in the league after you're in the first overall pick and having a great roster construction with a few other guys, um, adding Anthony Davis and Trey Young to the squad, going from worst team to being in the playoffs or at least a play in. That is not delusional.
SPEAKER_01My thing is look at Charlotte last year. The Wizards are so clearly similar in that situation where I don't I don't know if they're gonna win you know as much as Charlotte did last season since I think they had 44 wins.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Charlotte had a crazy season.
SPEAKER_01But it's clearly that they're gonna have a jump as long as they're healthy, right? And that they are legitimately a playing team just based on the talent. I know that people don't know all the young guys, and A D and Trey are a little bit theoretical, like Henry was saying, but you gotta give them some credit for assembling a good amount of talent. Just do some research, right? Where it's like this is my thought.
SPEAKER_00This this is my whole thought on it. If you have not been keeping up with the Wizards for the past three years and all of a sudden you want to form an opinion, respectfully, don't say something to say, I don't know enough about this team. I'd rather you say that instead of make some bogus claim that fans are delusional and that this is still a rebuilding team that they're gonna intentionally lose. Just say, I haven't been keeping up with this team enough. I need to do more research before making these kinds of comments.
SPEAKER_01Right, but that but that but that's not you know exciting content to be all measured and rational. You know, people just gotta, yeah, it's too honest. They gotta throw their stuff out and just get clicks. And who whoever says the the wildest stuff, you know, gets clicks or whatever.
SPEAKER_02So above all, it's it's important that that we hammer home, even though they won't be throwing away games or putting out some of the strange third string dominant lineups we saw last year. The young guys are still the focal point of the team. Trey Young might have gotten paid. The AD rumors are still gonna be out there for the next couple months. But beyond AJ DeBonsa, it's gonna be, you know, Sarr, Keyshawn, Riley, Trey Johnson, like all the other young guys that I think get ignored when people are talking about if you're if you're doing a re-rebuild, then you're sort of ignoring all the guys. Like we talked about with Bleach Report. Those guys are all still at the middle of the team.
SPEAKER_00Like the Bleacher Report thing where it's like, yeah, Bob Carrington's gonna be earning for that, you know, fighting for that starting two role, and they completely omitted Bilakwabali and Justin Champagne.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's like it's they're still developing their young guys, but that does not mean that they are developing them at at um at the expense of winning games.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's just like I said, it is a sign that they haven't actually been following along and keeping up with what the Wizards have been doing the past three years. A lot of them have these kinds of false, you know, pretenses on some of these players where it's like a lot of people still think Alex Sarr is a player from his rookie season. When if you watched him last season, he was a borderline all-star. Like you have that kind of player at your center now, not the rookie who shot what, 39% from the field? You know, starting five, starting five, who was second in the league in blocks per game and leading the league in total blocks for a time before his injury, who is one of the best defensive centers in the league. Yeah, and his average. Yeah, a lot of people forget that. All right, Keyshawn George, one of the best role players in the NBA, who, if he could be a second option on his own team, he could probably make two or three all-star appearances in his career. But he's more than the Wizards. Yeah, he's more than a role player. But on the Wizards, he's seen as a role player because he's not your focal point like he could be on another team, a very Jalen Williams-esque player. Like having that as your fourth, fifth best player in your starting five is great to have. Trey Young, who when he's on point and has a team actually built for him to succeed, is an all-star and all-NBA level player. Anthony Davis, when he is healthy, is a top 25 player in the NBA. But a lot of people, it's the oh, it's unknowns, we never seen them play together. Okay, cool, but you still have, you know, like the Sixers. They added LeBron and Jalen Brown. They haven't played together, but a lot of them have them as a top-tier team. I do, so you can't like use that same reason for why the Wizards are going to be bad.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I and I think, like, let's face it, they get, you know, because they've been bad in recent years, you know, it's just that they're not gonna get the benefit of the doubt. You know, I I I do think history plays more into these rankings than a lot of you know, uh people that make their rankings want to admit, you know. Um, obviously, like yeah, they they try to make it look like, yeah, it's all updated, but your your brain kind of naturally has a bias. Like, that's why I was saying it was surprising they put the Lakers 16th, you know, because that's lower than you think. Because usually the Lakers are, you know, they're they're propped up more, you know, because they have a lot more hype, right? But you know, usually teams like the Lakers they get propped up more, whereas a team like the Wizards, they gotta really get it out the mud. Like no one's gonna just hand them that that that attention that that a team like the Lakers will get, you know.
SPEAKER_02So you got that name, you got that jersey, you're gonna get dinged. Right.
SPEAKER_00It's just like I said, it's just a lot of the reasoning, it made no sense for some of these people, and then also just kind of shows you, like I said, with that one YouTube video where it's like it's clear you have not been watching the team. If this is a thought you came away, where it is going to be what you think is entering the fourth year of a rebuild. If you're entering the fourth year of a rebuild, something went horribly wrong in years two and three. This is the fourth year of a rebuild when you added Trey Young, Anthony Davis, and the first overall pick.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, man. It's like I just I just really want people to like do at least do deep research on their own. And a lot of people do. I'm not like we can't, we can't say a lot of people do.
SPEAKER_00This is not for everyone, it's just the ones that end up blowing up are the ones that don't do the research and haven't been paying attention to the Washington Wizards. That's what sucks. That's what it is, right? That's what we're here for. That's so what we're trying to do. It's just the ones that do do like do their due diligence. Like, I know Windhorse has talked uh about you know the Wizards in a very good positive light before. He actually does his research, all right. Tim McMahon the other day, you know, he did it, all right. But I do think he does his research as well. I will say that he was able to form more coherent thoughts about it and was like, yeah, it's just there's so much unknown. I don't believe in Trey Young because of his defense, blah blah blah. It's like that makes sense. And he was like, You're relying on A.J. DeBonta to be, you know, one of your top guys in his rookie season. It's like, I get those. That those are good reasons. Don't be like Bleacher Report saying, Yeah, Bub Carrion is gonna be starting for, you know, fighting for the starting two role, right? It's like that just shows you haven't been paying attention, right?
SPEAKER_01Give me valid reasons, yeah. So with all that in mind, like, yes, they do have issues, so there's a lot of unknowns and all that. What do you guys think? I know we've talked about it before, but if you had just had a pick or uh what seed there are in the east as of today, what's your pick?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I did this on my TikTok the other day. Um I'll I'll pull up where like where I hold that I'll talk.
SPEAKER_02Um it's funny because we we were talking about them being 11th, but I'm not that I'm still higher than them, but not like meteorically so. I would say like eight or nine, probably.
SPEAKER_01I agree. And yeah, this is the thing is we're not that much higher on them than some of these rankings, but it's just that it's it's that we we have them in the uh you know play in tournament, whereas these guys have them outside of it, and that's a huge difference, right?
SPEAKER_00If if you if you get in the plane, you can make that is that is a huge difference because the play in last year, you needed 43 wins to be the 10th seed.
SPEAKER_02That's the thing, guys, is is when we're going from 11 to 8, that's a huge chasm they're crossing. As when that that's like the the bad teams are all sort of clustered in that bottom five, but like you have to really mean business if you if you're in the top 10, right?
SPEAKER_01Right, and and that's the thing. I just I understand that they don't have the track record and there's a lot of unknowns, but if you're looking at the talent, I think they should be in the playing group. You know what I mean? Even if they're 10th, I I could live with that. Having them below 10th, I just think you're really underselling, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I have the Wizards at nine, and um, yeah, you know, this is also partially because I think the East is just a gauntlet this year as well. Yeah, it is. It is like where it's like I have the Cavs at seven, that doesn't mean I think the Cavs are a bad team and they really regressed. I just think you know, 48 wins isn't getting you a guaranteed four seed anymore in the East.
SPEAKER_02No. And you also have to a lot for, you know, there's there's a world where the wizard season goes great, but there's a lot that has to go well for that to happen. So you're we're all sort of accounting for the bumps and bruises you're gonna take along the way of and like we said, we're not buying every night.
SPEAKER_00We're not vying for them to be like the sixth or fifth seed. To do that, Anthony Davis has to play like seventy games and be an MVP candidate. All right. And you're basically saying they're gonna have a winning record, but maybe not by much. Record, maybe not by much, maybe they're two or three games below 500, but having them at like 13, for example, all right, that is in that 20 to 25 win range, which is just if you only increased your win total by three to eight wins after the offseason the Wizards have, you need to do some internal deep thinking and figure out well, why did this just happen?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, and also it's like, okay, you know, like you guys were saying, we're not saying that they should be top five, but at the end of the day, it's like how realistically can you how can you explain it other than like I don't know, I don't I don't like the unknowns that I'm gonna have them 12th. Is it is that enough to put them like in the bottom three or four of the conference just because I'm not sure how it works?
SPEAKER_00Like it isn't enough to have um below teams like the Nets, for example, where it's like the unknown where it's like the Nets, where it's like you sure they might not have unknowns, where it's like objectively has more talent in the Nets.
SPEAKER_01So how do you Yes?
SPEAKER_00Objectively from top to bottom, it's it's the fact that the Wizards' 12th man is Chris Middleton, who is a you know key rotation player for a lot of playoff teams.
SPEAKER_02Good 12th man. I think these these negative these negative assumptions, if we can end on a positive note, are that I think soon there's gonna be people seeing this and picking the Wizards as like they're their big sleeper to maybe be a top six team. So I think the Chaos is gonna bounce back forth. We have we have two more months of offseason. There's gonna be people picking hot takes. So I I would assume there's still a lot more opinions to be had and shared, and maybe some of them will swing our way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and like there are some people out there that do great stuff. I'm just gonna go ahead and give uh my guy, and I'm I know I'm gonna butcher his last name, Finn. I'm just gonna say cool because he's a cool guy. All right. I'm sure you guys have seen him around. He just did his top 100 players rest. He had Keyshawn at 98, and I know a lot of people don't even have Keyshawn George as a top 100 player. Like, he does his research, he follows along with all of the teams in the NBA to make sure like he is caught up and knows what he's talking about because he likes to do a bunch of trade and off-season talk. And it's like he knows what he's talking about. It's like it's all of the underground guys where it's like you look at him, it's like talking about the Wizards where it's like, yeah, like that makes sense. He had Alex Sarr, 81. That is, I think, 17 uh spots higher than what the ringer had them had him at last season going into the year. Where it's like, yeah, I can I can see him at 81 in that range. Like he's right next to Donovan Klingon, and you could argue that they are very similar in talent right now. Where it's like a lot of it just it makes sense. It makes sense. He actually does his research unlike a lot of the big name network guys, unfortunately, because they focus on five teams because they dominate the scene.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think you know something else about it is that even if the Wizards don't have everything go their way, they can still be 10th. You know, they have no talent.
SPEAKER_00Even if everything doesn't go their way, they can still be 10th in the Eastern Conference, which is play-in, and play-in in the east gets you in that 40-win range. Right. That's that's what it gets you. And so that's what we're arguing, where it's like like I you can't really justify them being there, but then having teams like the Nets above them, or regarding starting five, the Warriors and Pelicans, for example, the Jazz being seven spots ahead, where in the West they would have had him, I think, as like the seventh or sixth best team in the West. For Utah, yeah. Where it's like it's stuff like that looking at it, it's like, ooh, that doesn't really make a lot of sense. Doesn't really make a lot of sense, but that's a podcast, baby. That's a podcast. We're back. But anything you guys got before we sign this off here?
SPEAKER_02I I a part of me wants to watch that video that you're talking about, the YouTube one. Uh I've seen it, I seen it in our group chat. Yeah, you you you did. I just I forgot to watch it. Um, and I'm I keep imagining like them showing A B, like talking about you know, the wizards could be good, and then it just turns black and white and it goes like idiot. And there's there's like a title card, like like a like a Smash Bros. Brawl um unskill cut scene.
SPEAKER_00Oh it was just like his reasoning was just horrible. It was just not good reasoning. It was not it was not good reasoning whatsoever.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, that's all I think. I I think it's it's just like I think the biggest thing to take away is like just fans keep in mind, you know, not don't believe everything. Just do your do your research and then see kind of which content creators and pundits are like kind of aligning with the research you're doing. Like just actually digging deep into the trend. Right.
SPEAKER_00Like not the guys that are saying Bob Carrington's going to be fighting for that starting role.
SPEAKER_01Right. But like really look at you know who they who what moves the team made. Like how what what what is the depth chart might look like, right? You know, what skills do the players have outside of their stats, right? There's just so much more to it than just oh, okay. Well, this guy's played a lot of minutes, so he he could start. And it's like, no.
SPEAKER_00So sorry. I think I think the weedoeder right next to my window is a sign that we got to sign this off. Buzzer beater. Buzzer Buzzer Beater. Thank you guys for tuning in, listening as always. We'll see you guys in the next one. Peace.