I Don't Want to Live With Them

Mark and Donna begin maneuvering Bert toward buying them a house, first one property, then another, then another. Brooke is expected to participate financially but when she pushes back, the next scheme appears. Bert privately admits he doesn't want to live with them, but can't bring himself to say no. By December, Mark and Donna fly to the Caribbean while a concerned family friend, panicked by what she's witnessed at Poplar Hill, calls the police. Featured expert: Charlotte Salomon on the difference between medical and legal capacity, the bright moments older adults still have, and what she calls the biggest gray area in this whole field, when a senior with capacity is being pressured into giving away their assets.

Beware Mysterious Mark is a Radio Sidney production. This project is funded in part by the Government of Canada's New Horizons for Seniors Program.

Show notes, episode transcripts and resources: mark.radiosidney.ca

Contact: info@radiosidney.ca

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to Beware Mysterious Mark. This 10-part series is a harrowing, true account of elder financial abuse. Some of what you'll hear may be unsettling. That's intentional. Because this can happen to anyone, your parent, your partner, your friend. Our goal is to expose how these schemes work, reveal the warning signs, and help you stop it before it happens to someone you love. So listen closely. Awareness is your first line of defense. In episode three of Beware Mysterious Mark, Bert was deemed vulnerable by health professionals, but able to make his own decisions. Then Mark and Donna pressured him to buy Brooks' half share of the family home. And now here's our storyteller, Nancy Miles, with episode four entitled, I Don't Want to Live With Him.

SPEAKER_06 0:55

Our phone call with lawyer John Spencer in November of 2019 was helpful. He was shocked by the coercive manner of Mark's carrot and stick letter, very concerned for Bert's financial safety and security. John suggested Bert should have his own real estate lawyer, independent of Mark and Donna. We asked if Brooke, as her dad's power of attorney, could remove money from Bert's accounts, set it aside in a trust account, so Mark and Donna couldn't get at it. Unfortunately, John said that this would be legally considered having dirty hands and would fall right into Mark's goal of proving Brooke was untrustworthy and greedy. Most importantly, he encouraged Brooke to immediately show the keratin stick letter to Dr. Coupard. Before continuing, you need to appreciate some financial circumstances. Despite Brooke's efforts to the contrary, her dad was having trouble accepting that he had roughly one point one million dollars in financial assets. This puzzled Brooke because her dad had managed his money for decades. He was, as you now know, also a half owner of the Poplar Hill family home. Valued at one million dollars. And no debts. About 15 years ago, Bert had added Brooke's name to one of his stock accounts to simplify probate. Pretty standard stuff and never an issue prior to Diane's death. Okay, so now we're ready to go down the convoluted, twisty rabbit hole, to follow Mark Marshall's ultimate goal, that is, to get Poplar Hill out of Bert Cooper for free. The secrets between the Coopers now begin multiplying. In their next conversation at Poplar Hill, Bert doesn't mention the carrot and stick letter, but neither does Brooke.

SPEAKER_03 3:05

If I do have a million dollars, and I don't believe you're right about that, Brooke, I could buy a house somewhere else.

SPEAKER_05 3:13

Oh Dad, I don't want you to move. You love this place.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Yes, but sometimes it's a bit of a mill pond. A real weight on me. Birds have to be fed, things have got to be looked after, you know.

SPEAKER_05 3:28

Well could could Mark and Donna contribute? And and maybe buy a house together?

SPEAKER_03 3:33

Oh, I don't want to live with them, dear. No, I I I don't want to live with them. Oh okay, that's fine. I like Mark and I like Donna. They're a nice couple. But I said to them, living together's going to be a lot different. I'm I'm not very calm, and uh perhaps I prefer to live by myself. Well, you do seem happy.

SPEAKER_05 4:00

I enjoy it here. Well, let's just think about it, okay? Why not just stay where you are for now? There's no rush, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Brooke, do you want to live here?

SPEAKER_05 4:15

Well, yes. I've always expected to, but not before you're gone.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

You want to come in? I'm pleased about that, I I really am.

SPEAKER_05 4:25

Yes, I thought now you wouldn't want me and Nancy here when you're gone.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Oh I'd be delighted. I'd be tickled pink.

SPEAKER_05 4:35

Really? I misunderstood.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

I think your living here would be a great idea. I'm much happier. I can say to Mark and Donna, let's forget about living together. It's too expensive. It's not wanted.

SPEAKER_06 4:50

Okay. By the time Brooke left, she and her dad had agreed on a plan forward, and that Brooke would provide him with a net worth statement of his capital. Bert would stay in the Poplar Hill house, which he loved, and Brooke and I would move in after he died. Bert seemed content. Brooke came home high as a kite, thrilled and relieved that this issue was finally settled. One of our better moments. That night, Brooke prepared the financial statement for her dad. She returned less than twenty-four hours later, statement in hand, on Thursday, Mark was present as Brooke walked in.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Donna Mark and I are going to buy a house together in Orca Bay. After you left yesterday, Brooke. Mark took me for a drive looking at houses.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

And we found one we're interested in on Perkins.

SPEAKER_05 5:50

Oh yeah. Main living's upstairs, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

Have you got an appointment to see it? Yes. In two days. It's listed for 739,000, and I'm going to put in four hundred.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

And I have funds for the rest.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

Now, Brooke, would you buy me out of Poplar Hill?

SPEAKER_05 6:09

What? Wait a minute. I think it's a very bad idea. It's way too impulsive. Mum wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Your mom warned to me.

SPEAKER_05 6:19

Dad, I know you and Mum argued about Mark for years, but she gave up because you wouldn't listen to her concerns about Mark. And you were keeping secrets from her. Come on, Dad, please. Don't just wave this off.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

When I met your mom, she thought I was an interloper. But she did warm to me over time.

SPEAKER_05 6:43

No, Mark. Mom didn't trust you. Remember, Dad in hospital, Mum said to us to be good to each other. Dad, come on. Dad, don't look away. Aren't you gonna say something? Mom's last day. She said, beware of mysterious Mark.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Now, Brooke, I love your dad like a father. And I would like to love you as a sister.

SPEAKER_06 7:11

Brooke returned home, totally discombobulated. When I found out Bert was pushing her to buy him out of Poplar Hill, I exploded. What? Hang on here. Buy back the half share you just gave your dad in January? What the heck? Okay, okay, Brooke, just a second here. Let's take a breath and review this whole idiotic situation. Your dear mom died last December, and you inherited Poplar Hill along with most of her other assets. No surprise, your dad knew all about it and approved.

SPEAKER_05 7:49

At least he did over 20 plus years ago.

SPEAKER_06 7:52

He did. Then in January, you decide, out of the goodness of your heart, to put your dad's name on the house deed, in what the lawyer called joint tenancy meaning.

SPEAKER_05 8:04

When one of us dies, the other inherits.

SPEAKER_06 8:07

So if you died first, Brooke, the entire house goes to your dad, and your old man's not even grateful. Then in May, he wants you to sell your remaining half to him so he can live with the creeps and give them the house when he dies. That would mean your mom's final wishes will be ignored and you'll lose your family home to those two selfish, late-to-the-will gate crashers.

SPEAKER_05 8:33

I suppose so.

SPEAKER_06 8:34

That's exactly what would have happened. But fortunately, you refused, not willing to give up the house your mom rightfully gave you. And now in November, those SOBs have decided that Bert should sell you his share of the house. But please, God, help me here. Wasn't it just last week Vicky found that damned carrot and stick letter which coerces him to buy your share instead? Yes. Well, all these wacky-doodle schemes. Just so Mark and Donna can live happily together with your dad and inherit Poplar Hill. My head's spinning here, Brooke. Have I got all the Looney demands right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:20

Okay, it's kind of crazy, I know.

SPEAKER_06 9:22

You think? My God! They're just jerking you and your poor, confused dad around, Brooke. They're coercing you and your dad to do anything to get them a house for as little of their own cash as possible. This is friggin' crazy. You're not doing any of it. No friggin' way. We're calling the lawyer again. Our lawyer was out of town. But in the end, we didn't need him for this one mini crisis. That Friday, Brooke took her dad to breakfast, hoping he'd had second thoughts about purchasing a house with Mark and Donna, but he was firm, going ahead, telling her he knows what he's doing. The next day, Saturday, November 16th, Bert, Mark, and Donna viewed the Perkins Street House. Bert called Brooke on Sunday, hates the house, asks if she'll come over early Monday morning. So my beloved goes and sits in the family room opposite her dad, as he says, Mark hasn't got a dime to put into this house.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Not a dime. Donald'll have to get a mortgage for three hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_06 10:41

Bert tells Brooke he fears a deep economic depression is just around the corner. That explanation lurches on for about ten minutes before Bert admits he doesn't really want to buy the Perkins Street house. Brooke realizes her dad's developing this economic depression theory as an excuse because he's afraid to tell his friends that he doesn't like the house.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

I have a lot of doubts about Mark. I really do. A lot of doubts. He's a very sort of gentle soul. Nice. But he's not committing anything, you know. He's not committing anything. I said to him, For God's sake, can't you get your money out of this formation? You mean his offshore funds? Yeah. And he said he can't get it out.

SPEAKER_05 11:39

He can't take the money out. A few days ago he told me to my face he had the funds.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Yes. We wait a couple of years, see what happens. See if I survive or not. I won't let them live here. No, not not enough room for the three of us. He'd drive me crazy. I like him. I think he's clever, but I don't want him here all the time. I really don't. I won't leave any money to him. I'll leave it to her. Okay. I don't want Donna to have a mortgage. You know, Brooke, Mark told me I was sick and dying when I met him, and he's brought me back to life. That's just silly, Dad. I can't fathom him out. But I hope today I can get to what I want to say to them. Oh, that would be no. Mark knows hundreds of people, all sorts, but no friends. I think that's really odd. I think I'm the only person he's ever tacked on to. No one else. Now, whether that's because I've got money, I don't know. I I don't think so. Mark doesn't appear to be interested in money.

SPEAKER_06 13:05

Bert's sense of doubt about Mark's character had popped up in a variety of conversations with Brooke over the previous year, but somehow Bert always came round to praise him. Extremely frustrating for Brooke. On November twenty sixth, Brooke was clearing up in the Poplar Hill kitchen following a visit with a couple who had known her parents for over thirty years. It had been eight days of peaceful coexistence since her dad had declared a coming economic depression, and that he didn't want to buy any real estate. But that all changed when Bert began to speak.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Brooke, we found a house in Orca Bay. What? Whereabouts? Oh you know it, don't you? On Somerset?

SPEAKER_05 13:55

Oh yeah, the ravine lot.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

Yeah, but I was a fool to offer him four hundred K, a bloody fool. I really don't think it's right for me to put four hundred into it. I said I would, and I will if I have to. Donna was told she could get a mortgage for four hundred K.

SPEAKER_05 14:14

She won't qualify for anywhere near that much.

SPEAKER_03 14:17

Well yes. They went in yesterday and she can only borrow two hundred K in a mortgage. Poor Donna. She was in tears, Brooke They just love the house.

SPEAKER_05 14:28

Donna was in tears? Really?

SPEAKER_03 14:32

Well I'm not giving them six hundred K. No way. That's out of the question. Also, I'm very reluctant to pass them over four hundred K just to look after me. So I thought what if I gave you the four hundred K instead? Well actually I'll give you three hundred K and you put in five hundred K. Then the house would be yours and we would rent it. What about that? Would you consider that?

SPEAKER_05 15:01

Uh well so you're no longer going to buy a house with them? But you want me to buy it with you. Is that it?

SPEAKER_03 15:08

Yes. Well, I'd like to move to this Somerset one and and live with Mark and Donna there.

SPEAKER_05 15:15

You would? Well okay. If that's what you want, Dad.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Well, let me put it this way, dear. You'd own the Somerset house for five hundred thousand dollars. Lying in bed this morning, I'm thinking this is good for Brooke. She'll have a house. She'll have rent. Candidly. I I I really didn't want to give Mark and Donna four hundred K. I really didn't. I'd much rather you have it. We'll pay you fifteen hundred dollars a month if you rent it to us.

SPEAKER_05 15:48

But I don't need any money.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

I don't need the money. I can't spend it. I don't want it. I really don't. I'd much rather you have it.

SPEAKER_05 15:58

Okay, so long as you like the house, I want you to be happy. That's what's important to me.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

Oh I do. And they love the house, dear. They really do. But you know, I woke up this morning and I thought, heck, I shouldn't give 'em that money. You know, if I was to buy this house with them, I'd have been tied to them. I just don't want that. This has pleased me, you've no idea. I've got out of giving them that four hundred. You know, they're nothing to us. I was a bit stupid, sort of anxious, wasn't I?

SPEAKER_06 16:40

Suddenly it was a full-on rush to buy the Somerset house. Brooke accompanied her dad and Mark to view the house the next day. She came home and told me her plans. Dad loved it, Nancy.

SPEAKER_05 16:54

He just seems so happy. I'm gonna buy it for him. Your your what?

SPEAKER_06 17:00

Hang on! We haven't even discussed this. And you're gonna to spend five hundred thousand to buy a house for those creeps? Did your dad even ask if you had the money and that's what you wanted to spend it on? Not to mention that, you know, your money is our money. Give your head a shake, Brooke. That's ridiculous. Don't let them pressure you.

SPEAKER_05 17:27

I'm not. This might be the last thing I can do for Dad to make him happy.

SPEAKER_06 17:34

That's just you being railroaded by Mark. Come on! You gotta know that.

SPEAKER_05 17:41

Nah, okay, maybe. But things have been so difficult with Dad. I think this might help.

SPEAKER_06 17:48

Man, Brooke, we're totally being screwed by that F and Mark. Okay, well, I won't stop you, 'cause it's for your dad. But you gotta realize those creeps are still gonna be your tenants even after your dad dies. And just for the friggin' record, I'm against this. Okay, okay. In fact, why don't you call John again? Got him on speed dial. This time we connect with John Spencer immediately. He tells Brooke the exact same thing. In fact, John goes a step further, saying, Brooke, I won't help you close that transaction. Nevertheless, the next day Brooke puts in a full price offer on the Somerset House. After a stressful few hours, we learned the seller demanded a very tight closing date. Brooke came to her senses and decided to pull out. Hallelujah. Coincidentally, Bert's friend Chris bravely attempts a man-to-man, heart-to-heart talk with Bert that very night. In a nutshell, Chris told Bert the truth that he was mistreating Brooke, that he was a buffoon, and that Mark and Donna were just after his money. Not surprisingly, that meeting ends in a major and heated blow up. Sadly, the two men have not spoken since. When she told her dad the news about the failed real estate deal the next day, Brooke was astounded. Bert wasn't upset.

SPEAKER_03 19:34

In fact, her dad said If Mark is a confidence man, and I really don't think he is, he's not going to get a nickel out of me in that way. I'll buy him lunch. That's as far as it's going to go. You don't like him, and I don't blame you. Poor old Chris, he was terribly upset. He's convinced that Mark's a charlatan. But donors as straight as a die. I'm going to tell Mark I've given you that 300,000, so he'll think I don't have that money anymore.

SPEAKER_06 20:16

Brooke instantly recognized her dad was terrified of disappointing Mark. The old guy was truly trapped. Mind you, all this didn't stop them from quickly coming up with yet another ridiculous scheme. Swapping houses. You gotta admit that Mark Marshall's no quitter when it comes to lining his pocket. Bert began talking to Brooke about us living at Poplar Hill, and all three of them taking over our little bungalow, which is about fifty percent smaller. Of course, that was nonsensical. Brooke told her dad this suggestion was a non starter and stuck to her guns. Can you guess how we were feeling? Over the last year, only Child Brooke had lost her beloved mum, and before she could even begin grieving, her dad started alienating me, his old friends and neighbors, and of course, Brooke herself. We were devastated. Our understanding of ourselves and of Brooke's family had fractured. Yet as much as we tried, we couldn't forge a path to healing. It was like having the timeline of our lives, all those fundamental certainties, events, memories, and experiences gradually and agonizingly being distorted almost beyond recognition. As I mentioned earlier, all this buying, selling, swapping houses, jiggery, pokery happens over just sixteen days. And that wasn't all. On December second, Mark and Donna fly off to the Caribbean for a two week vacation. No contact with Brooke or even a thank you card for all her efforts to buy them a friggin' house. Their parting gift? A video camera glued to the mantle in Bert's family room. Bert believes that Mark's going to monitor him 24-7 from the Caribbean to be certain he's safe. Imagine. Brooke finally sees Dr. Coupard in early December, shows her the keratin stick letter. Dr. Coupard's very alarmed. Brooke then mentions the camera and attempts to relate all the absurd house buying demands. Dr. Coupard says she will follow up with appropriate authorities. On December 13th, family friend Janice calls us, again in a panic. She's just come from a second visit with Bert, where she learned that he's going to give Donna $140,000 for Mark's lung disease care. Janice is so freaked out, she calls the police. On December 18th, an RCMP constable named Fredericks, who Brooke has never met, called her at noon, asks Brooke who Janice is, expresses concern about her dad's situation, and ends by saying he's going to do his own research. Five hours later, Brooke and Bert return from a doctor's appointment, where they had learned Bert had been wearing his reading glasses to drive. Brooke was astonished to find an RCMP cruiser in the Poplar Hill driveway.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Our dramatization continues in the next episode. But now we explore today's theme: the gap between medical and legal capacity, the bright moments older adults still have, and what Charlotte Salomon calls the biggest gray area, when someone with capacity is being pressured into giving away their assets.

SPEAKER_04 24:38

Understand what assets they have and who they have to give it to. So I think you need people advocating for people who have these types of uh disabilities, uh, mental disabilities, and people who have um age-related um dementia, they have to be advocated for. Just because they get the diagnosis does not mean that they should not be involved in any of their decision making. So the the interesting thing about best interest is something uh that needs to be discussed. Uh when someone is capable of making their decisions, they do not need to have the approval of any of their possible beneficiaries of their estate to deal with their estate, right? So if someone in their lifetime with capacity wants to sell their assets and give them all to charity, that's their business. So it doesn't become an issue that the courts get involved with unless the person has passed away, and then in British Columbia we have something called WESA, and that is a statute that requires the willmaker to consider the duties they have to their beneficiaries. But while you're alive, you don't necessarily have that same duty. And then the issue of capacity comes in, and someone being taken advantage of. So that's a different scenario too. So someone may have lacking capacity, yet perhaps a caregiver, perhaps a family member is taking advantage of that person and is liquidating the estate in order to defeat the beneficiaries that would have been entitled to the estate once the person passes away. That is the biggest gray area we have. For example, if you have a child of an elderly person saying, You know, dad, I need the money. Can you please, you know, put $50,000 in my account, write a check for me for $50,000, and then the child takes it to the bank, and or there's an e-transfer, even better, no one has to go into a bank and the father is uh e-transferring money to the child, that $50,000 is gone. You know, so the beneficiaries ultimately will wonder where is this $50,000? Then to go backwards in time and to say, okay, did my parent have capacity to do that transaction at the time they did? That's a very hard thing to prove and disprove. The question is, is there a power of attorney? And if there is a power of attorney, this may be the time to have it invoked. This may be the time to contact the lawyer, if you don't have a copy of it, the lawyer who drafted the power of attorney, expressing your concerns, and then perhaps expressing their concerns to the parent. What the lawyer could do in the circumstances that would make sense is to have the parent in and try to get some answers themselves. The lawyer could call the parent's doctor and also see if there's any concerns. So there is a lot of inquiry that can be done. There's also resources available for a child in that circumstance. So BC Seniors, which is a provincial organization, has information on protection from elder abuse. So that's one of the resources that uh the lawyer could point the child to. And there's also a new organization called the Cent the Canadian Center for Decision Making Capacity. That's a nonprofit, brand new, uh, dedicated to advancing incapacity literacy. And and that's uh something that's going to be moving forward because there seems to be such a huge hole in what's to be done in these situations.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Today's episode featured the voices of Susan Anderson as Nancy, Andy Dawson Reed as Bert, Susan Wilkie as Brooke, and Jason Stevens as Mark. This is a production of Radio Sydney, with support from the Government of Canada's New Horizons program for seniors. The series was produced by Bill Collins, written by Nancy Miles and Brooke Cooper. Dramatization was directed by Matt Watson with sound engineering by Bill Collins. I'm Barry Bowman. Please join us again.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Coming to you from the Mary Wynn Spear Center in Sydney by the Sea in beautiful British Columbia, Canada. We are a volunteer organization funded by you, the listener. If you'd like to donate, hop on over to www.radiosydney.ca and hit the donate button. Thanks for listening and join us again soon.