Curiosity, Unpacked
Curiosity, Unpacked is a conversational podcast about the stories behind the surface.
Each episode sits down with people from all walks of life to explore the moments, decisions, and experiences that shaped who they are — not just what they do. From career pivots and personal challenges to quiet turning points that rarely get talked about, these are honest conversations that go a layer deeper.
This isn’t about highlight reels or polished success stories. It’s about unpacking the journey — the doubts, the lessons, the unexpected paths — and understanding how people become who they are.
If you’ve ever found yourself wondering “how did they get here?”, this is a space for slowing down, asking better questions, and staying genuinely curious.
Curiosity, Unpacked
Episode 17 - Heather Gurner
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Episode 17 of Curiosity, Unpacked welcomes Heather Gurner.
Heather or Hev as she is affectionately known, is a model and dancer who has been through some incredibly harrowing times to be here today.
We chat about her journey from country nsw to moving up to GC, to modelling overseas and representing Australia. Her story is one of incredible perseverance and a testament to not letting hard times in life stop you from living it.
https://www.instagram.com/hevgurner?stkn=MWxrYXl6cmJleTQ2ZQ==
Curiosity Unpacked. Conversations beyond the surface. Exploring the moments, decisions, and experiences that shape who we are, not just what we do. Honest stories, deeper questions, and the journeys behind it all. Episode 17 welcomes Heather Gurner. Heather is a professional dancer, model, and creative. From starting her journey in country New South Wales to now living on the Gold Coast, she has battled through many trials and tribulations to a point where she is pursuing more things that feel right and light up her soul. Alright, welcome back to Curiosity Unpacked. Heather, thank you for being here. Welcome. Is this your first podcast?
SPEAKER_01I think so. Yeah, well. Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_00Got a lot of those letters, which is good. It's um it's always funny when I reach out to people their reaction. It's always like, oh wow, that like it's a little bit of the shock, and like, oh, that sounds exciting. And then as we draw a little bit closer, people always get a little bit sort of nervous on what they're gonna sound like or what they're gonna talk about. Um, but yeah, as I said before we started, I'd like to just keep it a nice, easy combo.
SPEAKER_02So um yeah, no, I haven't I haven't had a preempted conversation recorded before, so this will be interesting, but I'm excited.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it'll be good. I think it's um yeah, hopefully you share the same sentiment a lot of people do. It's just a nice chance to reflect on the journey, both the the good and the bad, but it's it's you know, it's what you go through to to get to here, right? Absolutely, um yeah, and it's I think it's a good opportunity to do that.
SPEAKER_01So very thankful.
SPEAKER_00Hopefully you feel that way. So um, yeah, as I start every every episode, take me back to the beginning of your journey.
SPEAKER_02All right. Well, I I live on the Gold Coast now, obviously. So I've been a city girl for the last probably six to eight years or so, but I'm from the country, so I'm from rural New South Wales.
SPEAKER_00Um me too, actually. Really? Where are you from? I was born in Tumut in the Riverina. Oh, really?
SPEAKER_02I'm from Armadale.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, nice.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So I grew up on a farm uh with my grandparents, and my mum was a single mum at the time, but I had a very good childhood. Um, it took a bit of a turn once I was around 10 years old, but for the most part, I grew up riding motorbikes, sheep. We were a sheep farm at that time. Uh my granddad was a bush pilot, so we had a Cessna 182. Oh wow. And I spent a lot of my time sort of flying to our family's properties for different sort of stuff, which is funny because I'm I'm a dancer, but that's not very relevant in a small town, it's not really a thing, and I do thank my mother for that because she was a professional dancer. Oh wow, okay, and so that's how I was introduced to it. The rest of my family are all stockmen and tennis players, actually. And there was my mum who could not hit a tennis ball to save her life, so she introduced me to that at two years old. Uh, so I've been dancing for over 20 years now. Mum introduced me to dance, and from there I fell in love with it. So that was sort of my my thing. I was the dancer in town. I didn't have many friends because I was constantly in the studio, and as I got older, opportunities became less, you know, like there wasn't much going on. I did what I could. I got accelerated in high school for dance, so I was doing my HSC in year 10. And from that point, I thought I need to make a different move. I also had a bit of a situation, I guess, where around 15 I left home, and that was due to having a lot of violence at home with someone who had moved in. Um, so it was sort of I had two paths to go down, and I definitely went down so the nice one. Um, but that also led me to some of the best opportunities of my life. I had sort of hit rock bottom so hard that I had no other way but to go up. Yep. So mum took me down to Sydney and I auditioned for a performing arts high school, and I ended up moving to Sydney at 16 to pursue dance again and honestly get sober. That was sort of my rehab was to get back into the arts in an environment where it was everywhere, and to that day, like it saved my life. At the time, I was like, I don't want to do this, I'm in the comfort of my environment, but at the same time, there is nothing for me here, and I do find that a bit sad because I am a country girl at heart, I love the country. Sometimes I'm like, there's too much cement around me right now, I just need to breathe, go for a ride or something. But yeah, it saved my life. And I was able to train with Sydney Dance Company in year 11 whilst completing high school, and then COVID hit, yeah, yeah, and that's when things took a turn again. So I had to go back to Armadale, and obviously, in such a small town, the rules were pretty hectic, like you could not leave your front gate unless you were vaccinated, and there was a lot of brawls over that to say the least. So once things sort of lightened up, I came up to the Gold Coast at 17, had no plan, just wanted to get out of town, and I never went back. And it's been five and a half years. Wow.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_02I yeah, I found a friend that I used to know from high school, and I slept on their couch for like eight months, and then just sort of jumped around trying to find my place and thought I want to live here, I want to establish myself here. I tried Sydney, I did what I could there. Armadale wasn't the place for me, and Gold Coast has been. So that's sort of what's led me to this point. But through that, I've definitely had many various opportunities through dance and also tapping into modeling, which came in as I moved to the Gold Coast.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Take me back to, and obviously, as I said before we started recording, touch on as much as you want to. Like, I'm not gonna pry too much from that perspective, but that's very young, right? That to have such a huge monumental thing happen in your life, like it's gotta be pretty scary too, right? Like, you're only really starting to figure out who you are necessarily at 15, 16, like moving out of home from all you knew, going to Sydney, like that's gotta be a pretty scary moment for you.
SPEAKER_02It was terrifying, I will say that, but I have this thing where I just go all in. Like, fear is honestly one of the best things that you can use to face situations like this. Um, so as much as it's daunting, it was like, well, what's on the other side of this? Like, I am curious, I'm a curious person, so I want to experience it all. And at the time, honestly, I was so lost because I had many identity issues. I was an only child between my biological parents, but my mum had another daughter who was 10 years younger than me, and that's sort of why I left because I'd rather her have the stability of her family at home. Sure. So it was kind of me or who my stepdad, which is the person that I just wasn't getting along with at the time. Um, and also my biological dad has many health and mental health issues, and I had found that I had siblings on his side, and I had like found them. So I had no idea who I was. And to be so young, you don't have the ability to sort of oh drive and then go do something or figure that, get on a plane, make all these decisions for yourself, let alone the financial support of yourself, like you rely on your parents. So it was a really sticky situation to be in. But one thing that I did have was the love for art and the fact that my mum did support that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_02So at the end of the day, she tried to help me a lot, and I didn't see it as that. But through all my hardships that I've ever been through, I've always come back to dance or some form of art and expressing myself. So that was sort of I don't realise it till now, but I was like, okay, that that's what saved me.
SPEAKER_00It was your escape, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It was my escape in a healthy manner rather than trying something else. Like, I I did have issues with a drug addiction at 16, which is just so young. Like at the time, I'm like, oh, I know what I'm doing, I know my limits. No, girl. Like, absolutely not. So it's been a wild run, and there's so many pockets between that, obviously, but it's all happened for a reason, I believe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. When you had come up here, obviously that was you know 18 months sort of after, two years after, um, had the addiction. Uh were you on the other side of it by then, or were you still figuring things out by the time you'd come up here?
SPEAKER_02I think the runt of it was over because when I had left at 15, I had moved into a flat in town, so I was still in Armadale.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02And that's when I started wagging school. Like, things just didn't really matter anymore. I was more concerned about what was going on at home. Um I have the best mum, let me say that though. Like, mum and I have had a rough relationship, but she is the best woman I've ever met. This was entirely between me and the father figure in my life at that moment because I wasn't used to it. Um, so yeah, I guess not going to school, the runt of it was at 16 when you think you know what you're doing and you're just surrounded by the wrong crowd. Like, I was just with the wrong people, and I didn't really know what was outside of that town or that. You either go to school and you're a great academic, or you fall into the other pattern of things, which unfortunately happened to me. So once I got to the Gold Coast, it was sort of like this is a new opportunity I can try. For like eight months, I slipped back into it, and then I came out of it again because I cut certain people off. And that's when I found I am the healthiest in solitude and I need to work on myself just alone for now. And that that was a big white card call.
SPEAKER_00Did you realize how bad it was? Or did you have a moment where honestly?
SPEAKER_02I I got arrested when I was 19. Yeah, okay, and I think that was the turning point. Yeah, okay. I was in a very abusive relationship that ended up in a court case, and it was just this ongoing, I don't even know, like attached to comfort, no matter how abusive it is, it was predictable. And that's what I realized was the issue for me is that I was craving this predictable life out of security when in actuality I was not safe at all. Yeah. So I was living on the Gold Coast, but I was with someone from my hometown and great person, despite, but the addiction that follows these people is unfortunately like what turns everything upside down. So I had fallen into a really bad drug addiction again, and I ended up getting pulled over, and that was sort of the turning point. I just remember sort of stepping out of the car, like, I'm not even gonna argue on this, like take me back or do the secondary test, and yeah, did not want to be in that situation again.
SPEAKER_00It's almost like subconsciously you knew that you needed that.
SPEAKER_02I was thankful. Yeah, I literally went back to the police station a couple months later. I said, About time. Yeah, like I really appreciate that because I don't ever want to go through that again.
SPEAKER_00Post that did you have a moment where you sort of sat down with yourself and mapped out what the rest of your life was gonna look like, or yes, but I think that's always been hard for me to do because I still don't know what I want to do.
SPEAKER_02So I don't know how to start drawing it. And people say, you know, you can make a year plan and work your way back, but my dreams and aspirations are almost too big that it's like I don't know where to start. Um, I thought the most important thing to do was just lock in, and not in the sense with this really established routine, but just put myself first and be a little bit more selfish because I was definitely the people pleaser and obviously took accountability for my actions because I'm sure I hurt people as well in that period of my life, but it was more so about look what this does, like these actions have consequences, and I could see how much I was hurting my family with my behaviour. So that was also just the push to go, you know, you've way like you're meant for way more than this, like you're not meant to be stuck in this town doing the same thing every single day. And if there's no opportunities here for the stuff you want to do, then this is just not the place for me right now.
SPEAKER_00How long did it take you to start, I guess, getting enjoyment back out of your life?
SPEAKER_02I think once I you know what it was, it was actually my first pageant. Yeah, okay. It was not that long after I had been arrested and I was trying to get out of the relationship at the time. But I had seen there was a pageant going on in Brisbane and I had never done anything like that. Like, if you know me in my personal life, I the last person you will see on stage for a pageant. I didn't understand them, they scared me. Yeah, I can dance, but I can't do I have raging social anxiety, but because of that, I was like, let's do it. Yeah, and it went really well. I came back with like six titles. Um, I met some incredible people and I was sort of open to the community of it. So that really made me feel a sense of home because I didn't have many opportunities with dance up here. It's a different dance world compared to New South Wales. I'm a contemporary dancer at heart, it's very commercial up here, yeah, and there's obviously a lot of people and full-time schools, so it's really hard to find your place within the dance industry up here. And at that time I sort of fell in love with modelling because my passion is bringing visions to fruition. So if it was my own for that time, I was like, let's run with it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was gonna touch on that because obviously your your style is that is you know, from someone who doesn't have a huge amount of knowledge and the outside looking in, but it's obviously a little a lot more creative, a lot more artistic, right? So it's that, I guess, way to express yourself but in a different way, right?
SPEAKER_02100%. And I think it took a really long time for me to come to terms with that because I wanted to do everything. Obviously, there's a really big influencer culture up here, and what when I was in Armadale, it was like, oh my god, I want to do that, like I want to create content, I want to do what they're doing. But once I came up here, I just thought I don't align with this. Like it, if I don't feel passionate about it, I'm not gonna do it, and so I don't think that line of work was for me. And having that realization was almost a lot to go through because I had this preempted idea in my head that I wanted to do what they were doing, but realized that it's not authentic to me, and I come from a very quirky artistic background, and of course, like brands and stuff, they do amazing things like that, but I it's so niche what I'm into, so I thought, okay, maybe I need to do something that I've created myself, yeah. And that's why even today I'm in a quiet season because I only do things that I really feel aligned to and I can understand their vision behind it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was gonna say, like, it's unfortunately probably closes off 90% of the opportunity to uh much. But it's also very admirable that you've stuck to what you want to do, right? Like it's because it is one thing to need to do things, and unfortunately, there are a lot of people, like you know, people are gonna accept opportunities because they have no other choice. Need the money, they need the exposure, whatever it might be, that you have to do that, but there's also trying to find the balance between that and what you're actually passionate about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think, and I feel like everyone goes, or at least I did, goes through that phase of working for free. And I worked for free for a really long time, and then I thought I can't do this anymore. Like I'm through these projects, it's sort of like called it the elimination station, so it was experience regardless. I was like, okay, I've done that, I've been around that type of person, I've been directed by this sort of person. So I had the experience to know where I felt like I fit in within a setting or a set. Um, and that helped a lot, and now it's just a matter of navigating what do I want to bring to that instead of what can I take from it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that's it's yeah, once again, it's really admirable that you've been able to build that out of obviously some really, really horrible times and some times that you would probably not want to have had happen, but I unfortunately that's life, right? Like things happen that you don't want them to, right? Like it's not always gonna go the way that you want, but you've been able to build your own personality and your own style out of that too, and maybe you wouldn't have been able to find that had these horrible things not happened, right? Like, so it's it's always trying to, yeah, once again, you would would have preferred not to it for it have gone as bad as it did necessarily, but you know, you've been able to find yourself through it as well, which you could have very easily just let it destroy you.
SPEAKER_02I think well, yeah, because I mean you can be so naive when you and I'm still young, I'm 23. Yeah, but I I can say now confidently, before I I felt like I was being, you know, not a victim, but sort of like I've been through so much, like blah blah blah. But now it's like my power where there's so many other things, like this house that we're sitting in, this is my first lease. Like I've been homeless like four times since being on the Gold Coast, and it was a survival tactic to stay in an environment where there are opportunities, and even if I'm not activating them all the time, I'm surrounded by the right people, at least down the street for them. Like, yeah, it's it's been an interesting journey, but I'm so glad I went through that because how else would I know? Yeah, and I don't ever, ever want to be in that situation again. So I've been able to implement certain, you know, tactics and habits that don't let me go back there or whatnot.
SPEAKER_00And not to sort of bring you to the negative, but like you're not that far removed from it, right? Like it's only as you said, you're only 23, like it's it only started eight years ago. Like it's not that far away, right? So um, yeah. Do you find that you sort of not go back to that necessarily, but you sort of reflect on it a little bit more necessarily, or are you just sort of focused on it?
SPEAKER_02Well, it's funny because I do remember a lot, but when I was 17, I was diagnosed with complex post-traumatic stress disorder, and I think that's because abuse came into my life at the age of eight. So I became accommodated to this certain environment, but I still had the memory of what life was like when it was absolutely bliss. Like I have the best grandparents, like I have such a strong family, and don't get me wrong, everyone goes through their turmoil, but I think I've tried to come back to that now that I'm in, you know, outside of it. As much as it's not that far behind me, I'm also completely on the other side of the fence, so I can look at it with a different perspective. Um, I also thought, you know what, with my parents, it's their first time at life too. So I was able to sort of compartmentalize my thoughts and feelings towards certain people and kill things with kindness because I just, you know, some people that I've personally faced, I don't want to end up like that. And I took it as an opportunity to say, oh, this is what can happen if you continue to go down this path, or if you get stuck in a certain thought cycle where you just have whether it's rage or guilt or neglect towards yourself, and it's not something I want to do with mine, especially having a little sister. I'm so protective of her. She's 10 years younger than me, so I was changing her nabbies, I was feeding her too. She's like my best friend. We have such a large age gap that we never really had a you know conflict between each other. We weren't fighting over things that was just like my little baby. And I don't want her to make the same mistakes that I did, but I also can see with this new generation that she's like Gen Alpha or something. I don't understand it. But even I'm so protective with my mum now, where I think, oh my god, mom, how did you deal with me? Like, I'm so sorry, no matter what you did to me. Like, I'm sorry, I could not have one of me. So it's also taking everything into consideration and saying, okay, what mother do I want to be when I'm odd? Like, I have to get rid of these emotions of anger and learn how to regulate my emotions so that I don't pass that on to the next generation of my family in specific.
SPEAKER_00I think you should be really proud of that, honestly. Like, you know, this is the first time we've met each other, but like I and one of the, you know, to go back, I think I mentioned this on every podcast, but one of the best things about doing this podcast that I absolutely love is I get so much motivation from every person that I speak to, right? And it's yes, we talk about a lot of you know things that are not necessarily um terrific, but it's part of the journey, and that's a a big motivation behind it. It's it's so easy to just focus on the good stuff and show the good stuff, which is one mindset that helps, but you know, it's not what everyone goes through, right? Like you could very easily look at your social media, for example, and see all the amazing things that you do, but it's that's that's 10% of what people actually go through, and I think it's really important to have the conversation to go through it. And whether someone listens to this and finds motivation from it too, and can get themselves out of a similar situation, that that's incredible, right? But um, yeah, I think you should be really proud of being able to look back on that too, and it's not all about the negatives. Yes, you can use it to fuel you so that you don't end up in that situation again, right? But you can look back on it and still see the positive from that life and see and be able to go, hey, you know, it's not all their fault, it's not all my fault, it's it's just the reality of the situation, right? And yeah, um, I think you should be really proud of that. Thanks. That's really special.
SPEAKER_02It's funny you say that because I remember my I think it was my mum's telling me years ago, and it was like rage bait when she told me, but now I understand it. She said, Negative things happen to negative people. Yeah, and I didn't understand it, and it's so simple, but it lit yeah, I've watched it between friends that I'm not close with anymore because it's a neck, like your mindset is so important, yeah, and you can control what you think. And I'm still trying to figure that out, but it's so true. Positive things happen to positive people, and once I Just you know, I woke up, I was so sick of being miserable. I had meltdowns every day for over six years, and that was putting a lot of strain on my heart, like on my physical health, and these were really bad meltdowns, like hurting myself, but just my nervous system was completely tapped out, and so I had to come back to basics. And once I switched that mindset into just being more positive about things, going, How lucky am I to have a roof over my head? How lucky am I to have a car to get me from A to B? Or no, I don't have a job, but if I got one, I can get there on time, type thing. So just counting my blessings is what actually did so much more than even showing up to certain meetings or whatnot and experiences as well. I think it all starts with your self-house to look at it.
SPEAKER_00One of the big things that um I like to think about, like a quote, I guess you could call it, is nothing changes if nothing changes.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, that's one of my favorites.
SPEAKER_00Um and like as I said to you before we started recording, and I mentioned on a few podcasts, but um yeah, I've had my own struggles this year, and once again, this is not about me, it's about you, but it's you know connecting back to it. We're here for it. We're here for it. Is yeah, like um pretty, pretty bad, like yeah, almost sort of as bad as it's been for me along the journey, and um not one big thing necessarily, just a lot of little things. And once you fall into that mindset, everything, every little thing affects you more than it should, probably, right? Um but if you're not committed to trying to feel better, trying to get out of it, trying to go back to the things that you enjoy, it's never going to get better. And it's not easy as just going, all right, I'm gonna switch flick the switch and be happy tomorrow. I wish. But it's work working on those little things, right? And you can almost feel yourself go back into it, but you can't do anything about it. And once you open that door to try and do something about it, it's harder, but you've got to continue to work on it, right? And um, yeah, like you know, even just little things like you know, in Brisbane I live close to the water, so we used to go for a walk along the water, stop doing that, and you can you know you're not doing it, but you're not doing anything about it, right? And it's a silly little thing, but if you get enjoyment from it, why are you not trying to do it?
SPEAKER_02I know water is one of the best things for people, and I I grew up on a farm, I'm not used to the beach. I live on the Gold Coast, and I can't even count like I can count on one hand how many times I've been to the beach, but every time I go there, weird sense of calmness over me, like full factory reset, yeah, just looking at the water, and it's also things like that, taking the initiative to go, I know this makes me feel better. Yeah, let's go do that. And that's also a form of self-respect, which is really hard to unpack. I think it's literally like coding, figuring out how to avoid things and then activate them at the same time. It's just like constantly coding your own body and mind.
SPEAKER_00And to be honest, like, you know, I don't want to speak for you, but from all the bad things you've been through, that mindset now that you've got is obviously fantastic, but it's probably makes things easier now, right? Because you know that it probably is never gonna get as bad as what it once was. I hope not. Yeah, you definitely hope so. I hope not, no, definitely, yeah, 100%. Yeah, the little bad things that happen now, it's I can deal with that. Like it's okay, I've got the skills that I can I can move on, I can come out of the other side of it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think you know it's funny because the distinct diversity between those two is I used to react and now I'm proactive about it. Like I always say to myself, action over emotion. And it's sort of like a mantra, I tell myself a few times, and then that sort of removes this emotional response that I can feel brewing and just go into action and go, all right, what's the practical thing I have to do here? Do I need to get up, go on my computer, send an email? Do I need to clean my space because it's a complete reflection of my mental health right now, and that's not helping me because I can visually see it on top of already feeling horrible. Like, let's try and help myself here. And then, of course, asking others for help is a really hard thing for people with mental health issues because you don't know where to start. Yeah, and that's why honestly I've never done proper therapy because I just couldn't tell you where to start. I just looked at it and went, maybe we just need to start making a better life for ourselves and looking after ourselves a bit more because you don't realize how much you're neglecting yourself until you start doing it, and then you're like, oh my god, I could have done this years ago, but that's the journey of it. 100%.
SPEAKER_00And like that perspective is completely okay too, right? Like the first thing that I think a lot of people go to is oh, you can go speech to someone, and for a lot of those times it's not as easy as that. No, um, I've found when I've done it in the past, it it's it's been good because they're a third party, they don't know me. I can kind of, you know, I'm a pretty introverted person, unbiased opinion, yeah. I don't rely on other people too much, but sometimes you do need people that have got that context as well, so you find it may not help as much. And you know, I obviously I've I've got my wife who's always been a terrific support for me, but even then I you know when you get into that mindset, it's hard to go, I don't want to bother her with it, I don't want to bring her down because she can already see how much it is affecting me. If I tell her how bad it is, that's gonna make things worse. And it's it is hard to get out of that mindset too. Um, but it's also to the other side, if they love you, they want to be able to help you.
SPEAKER_02100%.
SPEAKER_00So you've got to be able to find the balance between the two there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think I see I'm such a visual person, and sometimes I think when you're going through a lot, you take up so much space in your brain, you don't have that clarity to think. Therefore, when you're with another person, especially romantically or whatnot, and they're always around you on an emotional level, you feel like a burden because it's just like baggage that you're like, I didn't ask to bring this, I know it's not like meant to be there. How do I get rid of it so that I don't interfere with the person I love's emotional regulation as well? Because they're a person too. Yeah, so I fully get that because I've definitely been there. Like I just felt like such a burden, even in my own house, wherever I walked, I just didn't want to be there because I thought I can't even think straight, like I've got too much space up in my own.
SPEAKER_00That's the thing as well. Sometimes it's easier, it's harder to vocalize it. Like you know what you're feeling in your head and you can feel it, but telling someone how you feel is hard too. And a lot of the time, like you know, I'd go, I I don't know how to make this sound like a thing to you. Like, I I don't know what you what I'm feeling necessarily, I can't tell you how I'm feeling. Articulate it, you're not gonna be able to help with this because I can't even make sense of what it is either, and it's just a vicious cycle from that perspective.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, definitely if anyone out there's feeling it, like, and you've got people that you can rely on, do it. I'm not saying that you have to completely push it onto someone else, but you know, once you you can feel like you're not going through it alone makes a really big difference to you.
SPEAKER_02And sometimes you need help opening that gate. Yeah, I think you may not get what you necessarily intend for it out of it, but at the same time it at least opens the floodgate for the right reasons, and then you end up having a conversation that leads to the next person or a conversation about how maybe they deal with something, and so you try it for yourself. I think talking is so important, and half the time I've realized that I can articulate how I'm feeling when I talk out loud. Yeah, so yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00Or even if you just get it out and it makes no sense.
SPEAKER_02No, 100% literally going to like uh I feel like you you can mentally explode and you don't want to do that, it is so bad for your body. What I've realized through my mental health journey is how physically ill I have become um periodically whilst just unwell mentally, yeah. And I think that's really important to take note of as well because yeah, you don't want to harm yourself in that way.
SPEAKER_00Not talking is also a form of self-harm in some degree, and the reality is you spend the most amount of your time with yourself, you're with yourself 24 hours. You know what I mean? Like you can't so you can't escape it, and that once again, it is scary, so it's it's hearing that sometimes is a little bit of a spin out for people, but you know, that's the reality of it. So, like you've got to be kind to yourself because what's the alternative, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's um for sure.
SPEAKER_00All right, well, let's move on to some good stuff now. Um, as I said, like it's it's really, really important, and I appreciate you being vulnerable about it. Like, I know it's it's not fun things to talk about, but it's it's an important part of the journey, and you don't get good things a lot of the time unless you go through some of the shit of it all, right? Absolutely, so yeah, but we'll lighten it up a little bit and go to some of the good stuff. Um, talk to me about I guess the the first opportunity that you got maybe professionally, and and something that made you feel like you know, maybe things are are turning back around the right way here.
SPEAKER_02Hmm, I think honestly, my first like gig with some form of production was back in Armadale when I was 16 or 17. So it was like in the midst of all of this happening. However, once I was in the dance studio, it felt like I could leave that version of me. I don't deal with change very well, so it was the one normality in my life, and that's why I think I was still addicted to it. And it was a concept video for some environmental conference down in Wollongong, but it had so many people in it that I was familiar with. It was my first time, I think, being on camera properly. We went down to Sortel. I don't know if you know where Sortell is. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and we I just remember us walking through the water with all our camera gear like on our head, trying to get to this part of the sand, which was really cool. And that was probably one of the most memorable uh gigs I've ever done because it had a really important purpose behind it. I was working with some of the best people I know in that town that some of them were my own dance teachers. Um one of them had danced with my mum for many years and known her, so it was a really cool experience, and that sort of opened my eyes up to saying, Oh my gosh, I love creating visuals, like this is sick. So then once I got to the Gold Coast, I thought, oh, I'm gonna see if there's anything going around. And there was a guy who wanted to do another concept video, and so I did that, except I was assisting him on the camera, so I actually filmed it myself, and then he ended up saying, I want to do one with you, and that just sort of what opened and said, Okay, I can do like gigs, I can just freelance for a bit. I didn't know this was a thing. Like I'm freshly 18 at this point, let's just give it a go. And that's sort of what uh introduced me to life outside dance, but also within a creative industry.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's gonna be pretty special, right? To feel that extra, I guess, fulfillment in it, right? Like you said, there was that different purpose behind it, and you're able to find sort of what was important to you. It's not just work or you know, where you your job's gonna sit necessarily. It was sort of important for you to find something that was just that little bit extra connection as well.
SPEAKER_02It was just really cool because I was so used to performing on stage, I don't see that. Yeah, like I don't see the end result of that. I honestly just see blinding lights on the stage. Like I think people assume you can see the audience when you're in a stage, but you can't see anything. Yeah, you could probably see like the first four people in the front row, which is terrifying. But yeah, I was actually able to look back and sit down and watch myself, and I was like, that is so weird. Like, I haven't really had that epiphany until now. So I thought it was really cool to have like a end result that I could look back on and keep from memory's sake as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Talking to sort of bounce around a little bit here, but you just mentioned about you know not being able to see anyone on the stage there. What do you feel when you're on stage? Is it is it an excitement? Like what's sort of going through you when you're up there?
SPEAKER_02That's a really interesting question because I have the worst stage fry, which I feel like most performers do, funnily enough. Like everyone that I've talked to, um so much anxiety standing behind the curtain, first of all, when you're waiting to go on. It is the worst 10 minutes of your life. And then once you're on stage, you can't do anything but just go. And what I used to tell, like, I was teach I've been teaching for a while now. I tell my students, you know, especially with people with ADHD or mental health in general, that when I'm dancing, it's the only time my body is at the same pace as my mind.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, that's a great way to put it on it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I can't even like articulate how I felt on stage because it was just peace. Yeah. And even though it's physically exhausting, you're trying to also, if I was competing, like put your best into it, but at the same time, I didn't care. Yeah, I don't care who was watching or you know, anything going on. Once I was on stage and the music had started, it was just sort of this yeah, timeless moment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I always like to sort of get to that moment before it happens, right? Like I've had a lot of a couple of athletes and uh you know, a couple performers on, so it's it's a very similar theming, and I I'm always so interested in that sort of mentality of right as you're about to go on the nerves of it, right? It's it's probably something I ask everyone, but everyone answers it almost the exact same way that once you're out there, it there's nothing you can do about it then. No, so you've just got to do your best with what you've got. Um, and I was sort of connected back to like it's funny you mentioned tennis earlier. I played tennis growing up pretty competitively, um, and to a relatively high level. Obviously, never went any further, and I stopped when I was approaching 18. But um a big thing for me was mentally I couldn't take it anymore. I couldn't, yeah, couldn't hack it as soon as I stepped on the court. There was way too much pressure on myself. I was never gonna be as good as what I thought I could be in that moment, and I could never could never go to the next level. I was my big thing was I was gonna become a professional first, but then I wanted to go to America to play college tennis. I had the opportunity to do that, but I didn't go because I decided I couldn't didn't want to I didn't like the person that I was anymore because it was I was too angry on the court and mentally I just couldn't couldn't take it anymore and at peace with that decision. But I think it is the difference between people who go to that next level and don't probably.
SPEAKER_02Do you regret that at all?
SPEAKER_00Um, I've probably I've probably wrestled with it a little bit more over the last little period, thinking about it a little bit more because it's about 10 years removed. Um I don't regret it because my big thing was uh I wanted to go do it and and test myself and push myself to that next level and that sense of fulfillment, I guess. But I also had an idea of I didn't want to go over there and have to come back and not feel like I feel that in my bones, yeah, you know, I was very confident that I would go over there. To be fair as well, I had just got with my now wife in that same year, okay, and it wasn't because of her that I decided not to do it, but being with her probably showed me the type of person that I was, yeah, and showed me that I could be myself.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_00Because I had probably just, yeah, as I said, I was a completely different person. I'm a pretty quiet, introverted person was back then, but as soon as I would step on the court, I was so angry, so full on, and it was it was affecting me physically as well, like because I was so stressed, and I'll put myself in a I mean all eyes are on you on the court, like 100%, and it's only me out there, yeah. Potentially, maybe that's sort of how my mental health anyway, whatever. That is what it is, but I'm probably a little bit more alone and that sort of stuff. And um, but getting with her probably showed me what I could and couldn't be, and and probably opened up to my myself to what I actually was and what maybe I could go be, right? Like I that didn't have to be that, that didn't have to be my whole personality and my my whole identity didn't have to be being a tennis player, I could be myself and I could go do other things. So they probably just opened that door a little bit where I was I would have felt worse had I have gone and failed. Yes, but because I chose not to do it and I decided that wasn't what I wanted for my life anymore. I I probably feel pretty comfortable with that. Yeah, you do get from time to time of what could have been because I could have also gone over there and it went well. Yeah, but I was probably just in the mentality where I didn't have the ability to think of what good could happen from it, except for my relationship. And see, that was what was drawing me, I think, was like I can be a good person here, I can be a good partner, that's a good thing. I need to just steer into that and I'll figure out what the rest of my life is.
SPEAKER_02But that's still a part of you, which is the cool thing. Like I played tennis for so I made it to nationals, yeah. Wow, but then dance took over, and my mum didn't really understand like the love for tennis as well. But it was there's so much pressure on you. It's hard, it's really hard. Yeah, it really did sort of I think that gave me a lot of anxiety because there could be 30 people around, but you've got two people in a court, and that's why my family loved it because they said you only need two people to play the game, and like we have a tennis court on the farm, and we all love it, but you can see the anger issues arise where all ha ha ha, and then they step into the court, it's just silence, and everyone's watching you, so and I I never played team sports really, so I never I sucked at team sports, I never had that once again.
SPEAKER_00I didn't want to rely on other people. I in a sick way, I probably liked the fact that it was just me, it was all on me, and I could control it. But the downside of that is you don't have the ability to blame someone else. I don't think that's sick, I think that's sane because and that's probably not a great mentality, but it is does make things easier for you when you can go, hey, I did what I could, but it didn't work out. Yeah, if I did what I could and it didn't work out, that's my fault. And in a way, when it went well, that made me feel top of the world because I did it. But when it didn't go well, and unfortunately, with because it is so such a mental game, when it didn't go well, there was no way of getting over it because it was that it's only my fault.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's so interesting you say that because I tried to give team sports a go, and I'll be so real, I got so bullied in school. Like I was just a target. Um, anyway, I tried to give it a go because I wanted to make friends, and like I had a friend group, and girls at a young age are terrifying, vicious. I played indoor hockey, the girls could not stand me because they were all like state hockey players, and I was just trying to give it a go. I tried basketball, I was definitely a lot better at that, but I kept resorting to dance because I was like, Well, I can do that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you steer to what you're good at, and like it's just me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I fully relate to that because it was it was awful stepping into the hockey den and just knowing like, oh, Heather's here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And it is hard, and like it's one of the big things that, like, you know, having done it, I've got a little bit more of an understanding of it. But it's a sport that everyone can play, right? Like you can ever you can go down to around the corner to the court and go play it, but people don't really understand, I think, how difficult it is to get to that level where you can compartmentalize every little thing that happens, and you know, in a lot of other sports, you probably don't have as many opportunities for things to go right or wrong. But in tennis, it's every 30 seconds something goes right or wrong. Yeah, and I think you've got to have that ability to go, okay, that's okay. I'm gonna get another opportunity to do it. Yeah, and I probably just did not have the ability to oh, I definitely didn't. I definitely didn't, especially towards the end, I was I was very much like this is as good as I'm gonna get, but I'm stopping myself, and that that is hard too, right? Like I think had it have been, once again, you know, maybe an excuse you could put it, but had it been a serious injury that stopped me from doing it, or had it been financial or location or whatever it might have been, it might have been easier. But there is a bit of me that goes, you know, I'm the one who stopped myself mentally. Um, but you've also got to go, well, this is the situation I'm in, like we've spoken about, this is the reality of it. Am I gonna choose to try to make this a positive or a negative thing? Yeah, and that's part of it.
SPEAKER_02For sure. Um, I think it's funny you say that because you're making me realize that's literally how I've looked at dance. I am so blessed to have my mum as my ballet teacher since day dot and giving me those opportunities. But once I had moved out of home and up here, I couldn't afford to dance. Yeah, like I it's honestly one of the most almost depressing like phases of my life is I will have these outbursts of emotions because um it's not as accessible to me anymore. I'm not in it as much as I was. Um and yeah, just knowing like, oh, what could have been? Like I'd been given opportunities or said, Oh my gosh, you could go do this, go to LA, go do that. Yeah, and it just didn't end up happening for me. And I know that's based on choices I made for myself as well. Yeah, and outside of it, like I definitely learned a lot of lessons, and that was to be so full of gratitude for the people I did have mentoring me at the time and for the effort I did put in, but also the effort I didn't. Yeah, like I was not a disciplined dancer, I can tell you that much. I was mum's worst student at the time, and then actually once I moved to Sydney, I remember in roll call, these teachers are like, Heather Gurner, Gurner, and I was like, uh yep, that's my name. And they started calling me Penny, and that's my mum's name. And I said, Oh yeah, that's my mother. And they had all worked together professionally when she was going on tour and stuff as a contemporary dancer, and then it clicked, and I was like, Oh my goodness, if I had put in the effort and just shut my mouth and worked hard like the rest of the students, I could have been somewhere else by now. And I did really well in my examinations and competing and all of that, but I could have been better, yeah. And so that was a massive life lesson, and now I'm sort of dealing with the aftermath of that.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, which is that's okay too, right?
SPEAKER_02It's a variation of life, to be honest. I'm like, you know what? I still did that, like it's not like that experience just dissipates into thin air, like I've taken that into choreography, which I think I almost prefer to do now choreographing and making an art piece um through my own calibre of movement, but the actual dancing. Of it and stuff like that. I'm like, oh my god, god damn it. But but this is also where I'm at, and I'm not hating it.
SPEAKER_00And there's a lot of people who aren't anywhere, right? Like there's true. So, you know, potentially that's a little mindset to have. And um I want to touch on the teaching stuff now. So obviously, you do a little bit of that. What's that like for you? You know, I love it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it I get a little bit anxious beforehand, obviously, because you feel so responsible for people being occupied and entertained for the hour or six hours that you're teaching. However, I had, you know, my mum is an incredible dance teacher, and so I learned from the absolute best. And once I started covering classes at her dance school, I was probably like 11 or 12 when I taught for the first time. And then as I got older, random contemporary classes and workshops, and then started working for a company called Ballet Workshops Australia, and I would mentor rural kids. So even though I was living up here on the Gold Coast, we were trying to give rural kids opportunities to what it's like to dance at Sydney Stedford, which is the biggest Stadford in Australia, I'm pretty sure, for both music and art. So that was really cool, and I'd train them online and then we'd meet in Sydney and they'd compete. So I was able to see how you know the progression of my mentorship was working, and it was a really cool experience because I got to connect with students that I just related to so much, like you know, trying to do something that they're so anxious to do, but also putting in the effort saying, I want to do this, I just don't know how to navigate it. Yeah, um, and also recently I was teaching for a really lovely girl, Caitlin. She owned Vault Dance Studios in Brisbane, so I was able to know Caitlin actually.
SPEAKER_00You know Caitlin?
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, that's so cool. Yeah, I I taught at Vault for a little bit. Um, and that was really cool as well because I hadn't taught up here really. I was still I've got this attachment to the country kids at home, and so that was a really good experience. And obviously met Caitlin and her team, and they are the most lovely people, they're just awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think it's pretty cool too in in these situations where you probably don't realize how much you know or how far you've come until you start telling someone else about it, right? Like you don't realize it makes you a little bit go, oh shit, like I actually do know a fair bit about this, and even to the point of it's it's got to be pretty fulfilling to be able to see yourself in some of those younger people and go, you know, good and the bad of what you did, and you can sort of help guide them a little bit more on the right path, right? And even just be there for them when things go wrong, like having that I think is pretty special too. That yeah, you probably don't realise the impact you can have on them as well.
SPEAKER_02No, I I haven't really thought about it like that because there's definitely people that taught me even just once and they've stuck with me. So that's yeah, that's a very cool way to look at it. And I think I also took such a personable approach to teaching because I was the black sheep in every room that I walked in. Yeah, um, even my family, just every scenario you could possibly think of, I was the black sheep, I was the weirdo, and I'm proud of that now. But I never wanted my students to feel like that. Yeah, if they didn't want to talk, they didn't have to talk. I just took an intuitive approach towards where their confidence was at in class, but also trying to sort of build their confidence at the same time and say, step forward, like just give it a go. I don't care if you mess it up, I just want you to move your body because I'm extremely spiritual, which I a few people know, like I don't try to blast it out online, but I've always taken a very spiritual approach to teaching or even just holding a space to begin with for people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Do you think that's sort of come over to your to your modeling sort of side now as well? That's it.
SPEAKER_02I think so. Yeah, I think so. I think um, sort of to touch back on the few recent years, I had a pretty bad eating disorder, and I had, you know, I smoked weed for eight years, and I'm recently just one year sober from that, and it would just deteriorate thank you. It deteriorated me on top of an eating disorder. It was just like the worst mix that I was doing to myself. And with that physique that I had at the time, I was the right profile for work and modeling and all that. But as time went on and I was like, this isn't healthy, and I just wasn't aligning with certain things, I just thought, you know what? I am who I am. Like, I don't want to do that, even if I see a version of myself, it's not this version that I've created through the rest of the stuff I've gone through, and even just getting tattoos and stuff like that. Yeah, I don't regret them. Maybe I don't fit a certain criteria anymore, but there is one that I will fit one day, and I think I'm just building that portfolio up for now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that switching the mindset's got to be a little bit empowering for you too, right? Of I'm just me, right?
SPEAKER_02Like it's like what can you do? Exactly. Like I can try, um, but I never want to walk in and be someone I'm not. I think through the countless hardships I've been through, I don't have the ability for this poker face that maybe I once used to. I just can't. I say what I think, I'm a little too transparent sometimes, but of course I like to accommodate to what's needed, but in a sense that I'm not stripping myself from authenticity. So it's been a really interesting journey because I think in times, I don't know what's going on, but in the world right now, you know, things are weird. Yeah, and it's almost like you just can't fabricate yourself. No, there's no point. You're not. I don't believe I'll get to where I want to be if I'm gonna bring a fake version of me in to try and do you really want those if opportunities come about but having to not be you?
SPEAKER_00Do you really want that? Like it's like I it's not worth it.
SPEAKER_02Sort of screw them over and myself because when push comes to shove and the veil drops, like I'm gonna be a completely different yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's better for them to have someone who wants to be that, yeah, or is telling themselves they want to be that or whatever it is, but um yeah, it's better for everyone if you just 100%, and it's it's just it's not worth it. No, things will come to you that are right for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I've seen, you know, even my dad, he has so many mental health issues, but I love him to death and he is who he is. But I've seen what having this front can do to someone through him, and it's his lies are his reality, whether that's what he's told people or himself, and I don't want to live like that. Yeah, and I've seen it through even other people in the industry, but it's almost inspiring to be like, let's not let's not turn up like that, like we are who we are, yeah. And that's the cool, like that's the cool thing of it because no one is the same. You can have similar interests, you can do you know, the same thing and have somewhat of the same experience throughout life, but at the end of the day, you don't have the same mentality or thought pattern as the next person.
SPEAKER_00No one's been through what you've been through, right? Exactly. So everything's everyone's unique, and people can relate to things, but it's you know, it's your journey, it's what you do that's makes you you, right? So um one other positive thing I want to touch on is you know, especially with Vault, um, I think it would have been a pretty nice community to be a part of, right? But like what was that sort of switch like for you to just to have so much positivity, right?
SPEAKER_02In a smaller community, but in and I felt found finally, I felt at home again, and I I think I used to tell her this all the time, you know, like I really struggled to find somewhere I felt safe in. And I'm not entirely sure where that comes from, but I just got so much anxiety walking to dance studios around here. And once I had walked into, I think it was Alua at the time, Alua Studios Co. before she did the rebrand, I think there was almost like this emotional point because I had signed up for a concept video that she did, sirens, and that's how I met them all. And oh my god, like the best people, like Hannah, so cool, like they are so lovely, they accommodate to everyone, they are so empathetic, they're such like people, like uh, you know. So I think I found like my place for the time being, and it helps me sort of understand where I was at with dance because I love teaching, I loved choreographing there, but I had also I think over time detached from what dance was for me without even realizing it because I just wasn't doing it, and even through physically dancing, like when I'm in the studio, I'm like, this feels a lot harder than what it used to be, like I'm loving it, yeah, but I'm actually really stressed out right now, and I'm like, it isn't worth that stress. Like, I just would rather peace. Yeah, and I think I'm learning some of the things that you have to sacrifice for that, even if you're passionate about it. Some things were just not for me anymore, which was a very interesting chapter to go through, yeah. But nonetheless, I'm so grateful for her, yeah, and she's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love it. Um, last thing I want to sort of touch on before we finish off. Um, obviously, last year a pretty exciting opportunity came about. Last year was wild, yeah. Uh talk me through all of that.
SPEAKER_02Uh so I went to Italy to represent Australia in the Planet Edition of Miss Europe Continental 2025, and that was a wild experience. I've had only been overseas once by this point. I went to Bali, and that was for like previous work in 2024, and then I ended up in a yoga course, which is a whole other story. Um, anyway, so I had no idea what I was doing. Like I had been to Bali, but Bali compared to Europe is quite a big change. Mind you, I was going by myself. I had no idea what I was doing. I the manager of the um pageant had reached out to me and I gave it some good thought and thought, you know what? This is an excuse to go to Bali, uh not Bali, Italy. Let's do it. Yeah. So I spent probably like eight months or so getting ready for it, and it's funny because I definitely could have done a better job at that, but I just wanted to go overseas and experience what that was like. Yeah, so we did that. It's actually televised, it was a really cool opportunity. I met the funniest people I ever have. The girls who are on that pageant were lovely. We spent like three full days together living with each other, um, all as nervous as each other. But it was an awesome experience, and I came fifth.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's huge.
SPEAKER_02Top five.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Which I was not expecting because these girls had worked for months, like worked really hard. And the girl who won, she was from Brazil and she deserved it. Oh my goodness, I could just tell how much work she had put in behind the scenes. But you know, pageantry isn't my first choice. But from my previous experience with it, I met really cool people and I was able to sort of suss out a community that wasn't familiar to me. It's definitely not something you do in the country. So I thought, you know, why not? I want to write about this one day. Like I can show my grandchildren, hey, I did a pageant in Italy. How cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It probably, you know, from the outside looking in, it probably helped that you didn't put so much pressure on it, right? Like you were, like you said, probably could have put more effort into it necessarily, or but you know, it's just a chance it was a really good opportunity just took it. But that's probably why it all went so well, right? And then why you reflect so positively on it because it was just an opportunity that you had to take.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it was a really good learning curve as well because I was thinking about doing this one in the Canary Islands this year, but I thought, you know what? I just need a year. I got a house sorted, like I was so grateful for that. I wanted to try full-time work and get back into that because I hadn't experienced that before, so I sort of pushed all that aside. I just did it back to front. Yeah, yeah. I pushed all those opportunities aside and go, let's just have this structured routine and see what that does for me, because it's just trial and error until I find out, you know, what's actually gonna work. Yep. But once I got to Italy, I really thought, okay, I would have done this differently, and that's really locking on myself, my health, um, going to the gym, doing all that stuff, but all little things that are just, you know, an add-on in preparation for something like a pageant. But nonetheless, I was in Italy for three and a half weeks by myself, and the person that came back to Australia was completely different. Like I needed that trip. I needed to be in complete solitude, lost in Rome, meeting random people and yeah, change my life.
SPEAKER_00It's obviously a very significant professional opportunity, but you don't really realize sometimes how moments can affect things, right? And um, yeah, it's really incredible that you were able to have that and have the time to go, okay, let's let's figure everything out from now, right?
SPEAKER_02It was why I tell people I said I went there alone, but I met myself. Yeah, wow, that's awesome. It was such a weird, I felt so weirdly at home in Rome. And it made me think, and this has happened when I was in Bali, like I just I feel so at peace when I'm overseas. Yeah, and I don't know if it's the culture or the difference from I'm not sure, but yeah, the release from the whole life. Really, yeah. You learn so much about yourself, yeah, and it just like opens your third eye almost. Like you're just able to leave everything at the door, and then you know what's important, and you come back with this sense of motivation that is just stuck with you. Yeah, even if you're in a rut and you're having a bit of a moment, like you've still got that experience to compare it to and go, I want to get back there, so what can I do? Yeah, and what am I gonna do differently so that I'm proud of the next version that leaves? Yeah, so that was sort of that wake-up call, but really cool experience. Like, I love it. My friends make fun of me, they go, Mr. Stalia, and I'm like, it's so last year.
SPEAKER_00Ah, it's awesome. I think it's yeah, it's really, really special, and I think it's important to hold on to those moments. You don't want to live in the past, but it's it's important to hold on to those moments and keep finding ways to chase that. Like it doesn't have to be as profound necessarily as that, but it's those little moments where you're just chasing it.
SPEAKER_02It's the little moments for sure. Like the show was over within a blink of an eye because once it starts, it was like a dance piece, like it's just go, go, go, cameras are rolling. Yeah, but once you come down from it and you sort of land back on earth, you're like, wow, okay, where do we go from here? Yeah, and then you realize that it was the little moments. It was, you know, I had lunch by the Coliseum, and that stuck with me more than anything in the trip. Just sitting there listening to people chitter-chatter and watching other people travel as well. It was just really cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you don't it doesn't have to be as significant as that, but you can find things that give you 50% of that enjoyment. Yeah, and that's okay too. Yes. Right. So it doesn't have to be the massive moments, but it's just finding that feeling. Whatever you can get in your life that gives you that feeling on whatever level it is, I think that's just what we need to keep doing, right?
SPEAKER_02I completely agree.
SPEAKER_00It's and it it is hard because you know, you never want to live for you know the next big trip or the next big thing coming up, like you want to try and find enjoyment from every day. But sometimes you do need to pull back to those big moments and go, okay, how do I find 10% of that today or tomorrow or the next day, and just keep chasing that. And that's what I'm trying to do now to sort of get myself out of you know those tough times, and um that may work for everyone or it may not, but it's yeah, I think that's a good thing to live by. Just keep finding that enjoyment.
SPEAKER_02I completely agree with you. And I think you know, if I was talking to my younger self, I think about that all the time because Little Hev has so many big dreams, and some of them I just didn't think were attainable, but they are. Something is even just living on the Gold Coast, like I did not think that was something that I was able to do, but it happened so naturally and so quickly, and you know, it was hard, but it's also not that hard when you want it. Yeah, like you just it's been really interesting, actually, and even just doing a pageant or having that title, like I don't care about the crown. I'll say that's so like I couldn't care less about the glam and the hair and the dresses and the carpets. It's just the experience of putting myself in an appropriate, uncomfortable situation for either character development or to go, who am I outside of that bubble and whatnot. And also it helped me accept who I am because I'm like, I'm Heather, I'm the only one there that had like you know, tattoos and stuff like that, and I just it sense of peace came over me. Like, I think people should I hope that they can take a moment for themselves and just realize how blessed they are to be simply themselves, no matter what you've been through, like it is genuinely your power. I would not be able to walk around with the heart I do now if I hadn't gone through those things. So, as tough as it was, I'm so thankful. Cause yeah, I would never want to treat the next person with a narrow mind if you you'd say and you could have let it stop you, and you didn't. And like I want to write about it, I want to help the next person. I'd hate to know if anyone felt the way that I've felt in previous years. So I think it's for someone else. We're all certain collectives, and I believe we are spiritual beings having human experience and not humans going through spiritual experiences.
SPEAKER_00Love that, love that. Alright, now we've got to the end of the episode. Um, as I said before we start recording, I'd do three questions. Three questions. Um yeah, two of them are are pretty similar themings to I guess what we've already spoken about, and the third one's a little bit dumb, but it's just a nice one to finish up on. Um so the first one is what makes you happy.
SPEAKER_02Oh gosh. The chance to wake up every day.
unknownLove that.
SPEAKER_02I think that sounds a bit sappy, but honestly, that's great. I am so blessed that I can sit up straight and you know have the freedom to do what I want. Even if there's things I've you know that are out of reach right now, at the end of the day, there is someone so much worse in a situation than me, and I always look at it like that. So I am so blessed and happy that I've got the life that I have. That's awesome. That's what makes me happy.
SPEAKER_00Right. Uh the second one is what's the best advice you've ever received? Or it could be uh yeah, once again, like we've sp sort of spoken about a a saying or a quote.
SPEAKER_02Uh I think one of the first quotes which I take as advice to myself, I can't remember who told me, but I remember having it like I carved it into my window scene and my house when I was like 10. And that was Fate Loves the Fearless. Yeah, wow. It took me a bit to understand it and break it down, but Fate does love the fearless, and that's why I think stepping into fear is as long as it's for the right reasons, obviously, is one of the best things you can do because you just quantumly you upgrade the second you step in and just be like proud of who you are. You know, life is not linear, like it's it's a journey, and that's the fun of it. Once you accept that it's a journey, you enjoy the ride a lot more. Yeah, 100%. There's no destination. You you can have goals, but at the end of the day, there's no destination, I believe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love that. That's awesome. Uh and the last one is what would be your death row meal?
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, Guzman. Oh yeah, sushi. You can have multiple things, can't you? Yeah, as much as you want, yeah. I would have a platter and pork spare ribs.
SPEAKER_00Oh, nice, yeah, yeah. I love this question because it just brings out like the look in your eyes as I asked it.
SPEAKER_02You're like, can we have a visualizing it? I'm like, what would I have? But yeah, I love Mexican food. Nice and then pork spare ribs.
SPEAKER_00Nice, very good. Yeah, and there's no consequences, right? There's no tomorrow. So and probably like 10 other things.
SPEAKER_02Just a little bit of everything, just a little bit of everything, and just like have it as a huge charcuterie board.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, love that. Awesome. 100% amazing. See, those questions weren't too bad. Probably good. Anything. Um, but no, thank you so much for doing this. Um thank you for having me. Thank you for being vulnerable and going through some of those um moments that are not necessarily fun to talk about. But as I said, I think you should be really proud of the person that you've become.
SPEAKER_03Thank you.
SPEAKER_00That I can establish you are just from this in our conversation. But um, yeah, it's really, really tough times that unfortunately probably too many people go through, but not everyone goes through. And I think there's a lot of good things that you've been able to come out of it. And yeah, certainly when we were talking about those things, the mindset and perspective that you've had on those things is not what I thought you were gonna say. And that's I think it's a good thing. I think it's because you automatically go to wow, that's a lot to go through, it's hard to come out of that. I think you should be really proud of the person that you've become and the perspective you've been able to build and how you look back on it all, and not that you know it's a bad thing to have a vic victim mentality, but you don't have that at all.
SPEAKER_02I think that's really I appreciate that because I think I don't I don't have any goals, but it's been that like it it's don't do it to yourself, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, and I think yeah, I think we're bound to have one person that listens to this that can get something out of it who's been through something similar, and hopefully they can get something possible. I hope so. Um it's one of the big things of this podcast is to open that up and you know, show that you've become who you are because of what you've been through, but also you know, you've made a lot of good choices out of that to become a good person. And I think that's really impressive.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I've thoroughly enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_00I love it. Awesome. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02No worries.