Doing Business in Saudi Arabia: Setup, Saudization & Market Readiness - Tasawar Ulhaq

In this episode of Qarar Podcast, we sit down with Tasawar Ulhaq to discuss what companies, founders, and investors need to know before setting up a business in Saudi Arabia.We cover the practical side of entering the Saudi market, from company setup and early preparation to understanding local requirements, hiring considerations, Saudization, compliance, and the importance of being operationally ready before launching.Tasawar shares valuable insights from his experience on what businesses should take care of, the common mistakes companies make when entering Saudi Arabia, and how to approach the market with the right mindset.If you are planning to start, expand, or operate a business in Saudi Arabia, this episode will give you a clear and practical view of what to expect.

Contact Tasawar if you need help landing your business to Saudi Arabia: tasawar@basirah.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You're always asking for something, right? You're asking for a contract, you're asking for money, or you're building a relationship with an empire. Saudi Arabia does that. So that was the big next move after now five and a half years ago. It feels like it's been evolving. And from the moment I arrived, other than thinking, wow, how will I keep up? Manage to keep up under. But uh it's been an amazing place and it's been a very attractive investment. But if you're around good people that pushed you to just be that little bit better, the entire framework works very well.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Hello and welcome again with Karor Podcast. Today is a very special episode because we have a very special guest from the UK. Tazel Haq is a strategist and investor who spent over 15 years building businesses across the Gulf. He started in Dubai, where he founded and led a government-backed licensing and the business setup platform, pioneering some of the region's most forward-thinking moves in how companies enter and operate in the UAE. Today, he is based Riyadh, where he founding again, Batira, helping international companies and investors navigate their entry into Saudi Arabia from licensing and legal structuring to capital access and government relations. So, Tasawar, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. Uh Tasawar, you are you are doing a lot of stuff. I try not to do too much, but yeah. Who are you and what you are doing here in Saudi?

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Doing in Saudi, current focus is to help foreign corporates coming into Saudi Arabia. Uh that's predominantly large corporates coming in, helping them with market access, incorporating them and helping them navigate from a business continuity perspective. There's other elements of managing their business from a government relations perspective. And then after that, we also support entrepreneurs and startups. That's kind of making sure that the entrepreneurs have an easy ecosystem to come into. And we work with venture capital firms out there. So the VCs, we support them in their framework in accessing the different government entities. So they can focus on the investments, they can focus on their business whilst we manage everything else on the back end for them. So the other part of the question. Okay, who am I? I'm a workaholic. So I've been in the region for 20 years, learnt a lot about the different aspects of the region. I just like someone who likes to have fun. And it's a good coincidence that I like solving problems. Looking at uh commercially how things operate in UAE and Saudi Arabia predominantly, but also across the GCC. And I've found a nice niche in the market entry space. So that's our core business. But that isn't also who I am. Um I really am someone who just likes to have fun and combining business with that, actually. So we have a bunch of businesses that uh all I think focus on kind of customer corporate services, you know, or customer experiences. And uh I have fun around all of that.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah, I mean you're you just summarized a lot of things. So let me let me ask you. You have you have a lot of stations from someone who was born in Pakistan, right? Then you moved to UK, and then from UK to UAE, and from UAE to Saudi. And how how how how this happened?

SPEAKER_00 3:45

So Dubai was booming 20 years ago. So I used to do work in. That doesn't count. I I moved to UK when I was months old. So that I I don't even know anything about Pakistan. Oh, I've actually my my market entry to Pakistan has been more recent thanks to a bunch of friends who have opened up doors in Islamabad Lahore and Karachi. Uh but otherwise I had very little connectivity other than you know family. Uh then UK, obviously academics, masters in engineering mathematics, which uh kills conversations. Yeah, yeah. Um that's a full-time job. That's a very hard academic course. And then uh worked in London doing uh work with uh derivatives consulting, uh working predominantly with quants, traders, structurers in the derivatives market, and then uh subsequently moved to Dubai. I was a booming, booming city slash country 20 years ago. You know, the the landing solution in Dubai has been done very well. You go to the airport, you have this magical road of Sheikh Zad Road, you're awed by everything. They have the DIFC, which was uh a far more beautiful character. This time was the beginning of Dubai? I don't think so. I think it was probably five years late into Dubai. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think uh I I well there's no late, but I Dubai had already been booming. Yeah, it was so hard to get into Dubai in terms of getting into the DIFC, started there, and then uh, you know, you have plans, um you know, the God has different plans for you. So the life has just evolved and 20 years have passed by and it's uh it's been a great experience.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Yeah, great. So you landed in Dubai. What was your first impression when you landed to Dubai after the first week, maybe? What did you like the most about Dubai? I just thought it's a fun place.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Look, so I think um Dubai has a beautiful charm. Uh when I, you know, and and it exists always, right? It's it's got beaches, it's got a business community. Um it has quite a transient society, but very interesting people that are moving there. Uh, it attracts a lot of high networks. And for business, it's a great base, and it is positioned as a base that you can travel anywhere in the region and access uh you know a two, four, six-hour geography. So you actually have access to the subcontinent, Africa, and all of the Middle East into a new country that you're about to make home, everything is amazed. And it for me it continued that way forever. It's I'm still always amazed by how beautiful all these cities are.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Do you think the transition is is is is really easy for someone who uh who lived and raised in Europe, specifically in UK. Are there any differences or challenges you've found between the UK and maybe Middle East in general? I think some people have challenges.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

For me, I've always looked at it from a positive perspective. Um moving out, navigating accommodation. For me, I had to figure out the the intricacies, even those days, of business, of how to incorporate a business then. So I've had those headaches for a long time. I just understanding culture and the difference in how business is done. 20 years ago, Ramadan time, Dubai would shut down. I'd never had that experience before. And also, I had never experienced a period where nobody wants to work. There's nothing to do with Dubai, but you know, culturally, Ramadan time, people want to relax. Moving from London and having traveled to New York, you work all the time and it's important to you, right? So those kind of things, navigating that, I would say psychologically challenging because I didn't know how to switch off. That's that's my character, not so much the region. I'll switch off. Yeah. Okay. Because someone tells you for one month, it's okay, no business is gonna really happen, but you tell your shareholders. So I struggle with that. Finding the right place to live, f figuring out buying a car, you know, life things. That was a bit of a challenge. Equally, it's you know, the Middle East is a great place to navigate, you meet a lot of people, everybody builds a network. You integrated into whatever around you was very fast, right? Oh yeah. And uh for me, I I think I I I wasn't, I just knew this is a new home now. Need to get a nice place, enjoy life, run a business. And I settled in very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

So uh let's move uh to the part of where you found your passion with. So after afterwards, I mean I think I think you started your own business, correct?

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Or this part is so I I I've done various entrepreneurial ventures whilst also working with companies. So after that, I did a bunch of investment banking work, uh, helping raise money and providing private equity advisory uh as part of an ecosystem. Uh that was sell side advisory, then I helped people raise money for private equity funds, helping some of those private equity funds build their businesses in the Middle East, as well as bringing corporates into the Middle East to navigate the Middle East almost like a go-to-market strategy. You're always asking for something, right? You're asking for a contract, you're asking for money, or you're building a relationship with an end purpose. So I actually ended up going to the buy side, uh, way of allocating money and investing money for a family office. At the same time, joined a VC as uh as an advisor and as a as a board member. No, no, is this part of your new business or your own? So I was I was I I was working for for for kind of uh entrepreneurial companies who were fast growing. And at the same time, um they gave they've always given me autonomy to build things myself. So when I left, I worked for a family office for six or seven months. That family office, um, I had to turn around parts of their business and help them grow, uh, as well as looking at operational efficiencies. That's where the brand Basera came from, because I had to have vision to do what I was doing for them. And then Baseera took a back of burner as a brand because I started working with an investment bank. Um, but even the guys I worked with were very entrepreneurial, so they encouraged uh my way of working or to bring out the best of me. Um, then working for a family office, the chairman also understood that as an entrepreneur, I want more. So it allowed me to do other things like being on the board of a VC, being quite hands-on with the portfolio companies of the VC and building them up in the Middle East. Uh so I think that framework and that ecosystem has been there. And from there, I moved to the government where created an idea, presented to the government, the board into the idea, and created a private entity kind of owned by a government entity. And then um moved to Saudi Arabia. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Yeah, this was now.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

So that was the big next move after Dubai. So uh now five and a half years ago, and feels like yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Oh, you've been here for five years. I didn't know before. Five and a half years. Internet says less than that. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 11:16

So I moved out here just when the the tail end of COVID. So moving around, getting into the country was still not easy, and the concept of foreign investment license uh was just starting to really take off. Um, so that was really building itself where investors wanted to come into the region. Um, it seemed lucrative, but the lack of information, lack of um data on how to do it, and also availability of people is just just not there. So um there wasn't a market opportunity and that's capital.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

What is unique about uh Saudi market in terms of uh the investment readiness, if we may say? So you you you you you have seen that uh I mean Saudi government they are doing everything to attract businesses from outside to come and invest in Saudi, right? So uh I mean what do you think about those initiatives? And what do you think about, I mean, uh, or what is the uniqueness that you found in this part of the world?

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Look, Saudi, first and foremost, is is enormous from a landmass perspective, from uh from a GDP perspective, and also from uh from a history perspective. And uh the business opportunities have always been here. The market entry has not always been easy, but it's okay because the local ecosystem was so strong, those who were willing to come in and do business did and benefited from the old saga. I used to work here 14 years ago, 15 years ago, in steel manufacturing. So I did a lot of private equity work and advisory work uh for billets and rebar, so I understood the country. And and so the place has always been a mammoth opportunity for investment. Also, the opportunity has been that it's not easy to access. So those who wanted to uh invest their time and resources to come in have benefited hugely. That's why you have families here who have been here for 30, 40, 50 years, having been in business for a long time. And now they talk about you know their businesses being so successful because they'd align themselves with the right people and so forth. From from my perspective, I I saw that it was just at the cusp of taking off, and it's been booming since. And uh, you know, one of the things I heard when I first moved out here, Saudi Arabia is one of the few places where the government is moving faster than the private sector.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Do you know that? I mean, I think you're the third person who said exactly the same sentence here in this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

You know, when you hear that, so what was intimidating for me was when I came out, I thought, how am I going to keep up? Because my objective here is to provide government services. When the government are moving faster than the private sector, how can you keep up? And then you walk around Saudi and everything is amazing, huge. You can see investment has been made in there. Correct. Look at the coffee shops. You can see their fit outs are not very cheap. You know, everything has been done beautifully. It's been evolving. And from the moment I arrived, other than thinking, wow, how will I keep up? And I've managed to keep up, Alhamdulillah. But uh, it's just been an amazing place. And it's been a very attractive investment.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

So tell me, tell me what are you doing now here in Saudi in terms of, I mean, what kind of business you're planning?

SPEAKER_00 14:45

So, so our main focus, we help foreign companies incorporate into Saudi Arabia. A secondary focus to that, which is also a part of the business, is managing payroll uh and employee on record, helping with employees land here for consultancy firms and so forth who just need the residency here.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

I I I have a business running in Europe, for example, right? But I don't have any entity in Saudi. I don't have any license in Saudi, but I have a client in Saudi. Yes. Right? Can you support me? Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

So either in terms of employees. Yeah, we don't get you the employee. Uh so what we do is either you can set up a company here, you can send your staff here and be legally present through having an employer record, and all of their salaries are paid here from the end client, which can be I use gigaprojects as an easy example because the volume of people that have come out down here. Um, and then you need somebody to, so the third part of the business is you need somebody to make sure that compliance, uh, payroll, and just the management of whether it's your company or the staff is done effectively. So we manage that. So I I would I call that a simple business because we we make sure that whilst why specifically I've chosen this uh type of business and Saudi. Is it really complicated to manage? Most people in my industry will say yes, I would say no. No, it's not. But we do extremely well. It's a very simple business. I started engineering mathematics. Okay. For my final year thesis, I did a thesis on non-differential equation. This is multiple factors that change how things work in the world to simplify the language. My thesis, which I got a very good grade for, um, was based on two factors. Normally you should fail because two factors are so simple from a math engineering maths perspective, it's not complicated enough to show that you understand the subject. But if you do extremely well, which I went into a deep dive, and there was no AI to help me at the time, so I had to read. Now everything can be done in seconds. You realize the complexity of two factors changing in the world is quite complex. Adding a third part factor is astronomically complex, and any more factors, it becomes more difficult. So I just understood there was a gap in how businesses run here, how effectively clients are serviced here, and how to run and run your business here. And the the pain points other people have. Um pain points that I've seen simplified in UAE. There's 4,000 service providers in the UAE. There's a decent sized guys who are present locally, and there's a the small operators, and all have their market share, and it works for them. In Saudi, I'm gonna upset some people with this comment, but I never saw anybody. When I first came out here, that was that impressive. Maybe there were one or two people, um, companies. Some were so big that they didn't really care about the everyday client. Response rate was not uh fast, uh, certainly not 24 hours. It took me two weeks to figure out for anyone to respond to me uh as a customer who wanted to incorporate a company down here. Um I realized that there's an opportunity, it's just doing something extremely well. And it doesn't matter if it's complicated, we just do it very well. So, and that's that's always been a model, and that that model applies in every industry. If you look at the intricate depth detail of every minute uh ways to perfect it and can continue being effective, it kind of perfected, you could run a very efficient business. And I think that applies everywhere. There's never a need for Airbnb because you can just book a hotel, and there's no need for another booking site because booking.com exists. Yet new boutiques come up and there's an opportunity for everybody, and that's where I saw an opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

So uh now we built Basira in Saudi, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

What Basera uh does actually? So Basera is actually uh uh meaning vision is a simple word to see beyond what it is today. Um it's evolved and it's uh uh it's my investment company. Uh we um I'm a shareholder in a business that supports any holding structure, SPVs, foundations, um, and holding company structures, especially for high networks or startups in ADGM. And ADGM done a great job positioning itself as a as a top core company. What is ADGM? Abu Global Markets, um, a great jurisdiction for multiple structures, become well known to create the the holding structure for any shareholders uh with using you know British common law, legal framework. And uh we have a beautiful name for that company called Velox, uh great branding, and the business service is truly impeccable where we help. And we've work done a lot of work in Saudi Arabia because it's it's a jurisdiction that is almost uh complementary to how Saudis and non-Saudis come in at a holding level, especially for startups and uh shareholder agreements and so forth. Um Basera is a shareholder in a law firm uh where the natural transition from ADGM, so we do MA, corporate law, and corporate structures, and supporting predominantly UAE entities, and now with presence in Germany, UK, and uh Dubai, and doing business across the GCC, predominantly in UAE though. And then um we have a corporate services business that's focused on incorporation in UAE. You know, the that's there's 4,000 of those, so there's no added sell there. We do a phenomenal job and we make sure that clients are very well taken care of. Uh, a lot of our clients are expanding now into Saudi Arabia. We are based in Saudi, so our business is called Incorporated in Dubai, London, and Saudi Arabia, where we incorporate entities. So we chose the most obvious name. Um, and Basir is a shareholder in all these structures.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

I I don't think we we signed any uh any commercial agreement to uh promote this, but I actually I really uh encourage anyone who would like to uh have support in incorporating his business in Saudi here, please contact Tasawar. I will leave his contact details or uh contact form in the description, and um of course Tasawar will be able to support um I mean during a consultation, maybe something like that. So, Tasawar, um I would like to ask you a question which might be very useful for a lot of businesses who are thinking about coming to Saudi and establishing their entities here. Just give us like five advices, what to look at, what to take care of before coming to Saudi. To at I mean, as I mean, as much as they can, they need to be successful here, right? Yes. So what are the things that you feel like from your perspective they need to think of before coming to Saudi?

SPEAKER_00 21:53

So I I would go through that as almost like a journey. So first understand the country and the direction the country is going. So the most obvious word is Vision 2030. If you don't understand Vision 2030, then you need to start learning that because then you see the key sectors that are growing in the country. Will that mean I need to read Vision 2030? Chat GBT will tell you everything in seconds. So at least you can know which sectors are the booming sectors and how your business complements that. Secondly, understand the financial and commercial aspects of being in Saudi Arabia. But I'll tell you from our perspective, we allow clients to set up down here and have a basic entity with no real staff. But that's not an operating business. If you're in an operating business, you need somebody present or who at least visits the company on a regular basis to build out the business down here and win business. Or you hire a go-to-market entry company because that seemed to be an industry that seems to be booming now. Then understanding that once you have a business set up, what are the compliance requirements for that? From paying salaries to banking to the annual uh compliance requirements, the regulatory requirements to make sure that you don't fall into trouble. And that's in every country, there's nothing to do with Saudi specifically.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

We just have to know the navigation and the language here. I hear that even UK has a lot of regulations and restrictions.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

I think people expect because it's the Middle East, maybe there's something that should be easy.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

I think that's that's very healthy because that protects the business and protects even, I mean, the other stakeholders around the business, like maybe the employees.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

You know, just understanding how to manage your company on an annual basis from a compliance perspective, let's to make it more time for myself, also understand your your compliance cost requirements. Okay. Because you're going to renew your license in the world.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

What do you mean about uh cost requirements? Um because that's that uh maybe will make a lot of people, you know, afraid or yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

No, okay. So uh I think it's no secret now, before people used to hide it, that in your first year the official missa fees are 12,000 for a for a regular company. Okay. Uh the second year is 62,000. 60. But here I mean, yeah, they are not charging it for now today. But you do agree to pay when payment is due.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Okay. So when you So you sign when payment is digitally sign. Yeah, when when they have the final decision on the payment, you have to pay all the previous. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

All right. Okay. So if you are not aware of this 62 fee, you're in for a heart attack. And look, having not understanding the reg the regulatory processes of running a business and the annual payments, when I first saw it, I was like, why am I paying again? And then someone told me, you pay every year. And I was like, This is this is a con. This is a long time ago. But anywhere in the world, you pay for your license on an annual basis. Some countries you don't, but you have other compliance requirements or high tax or other things that justify the zero payment for a license renewal. So what we do, we make sure we share that all that information with clients right away. That's a lot of reading, but it's all summarized as well. So you understand, and most corporates do have a high-level awareness of what they need to do when entering a different market.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Every business is is is going to pay the same amount, or I mean. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

So entrepreneurs have an advantage. So the Ministry of Investment supports entrepreneurs coming into the country. Uh, so their fees are significantly reduced. Um, in the first two or three years, it's 2,000 from the Ministry of Investment. Then after that, it's 12. I think in the third year uh or fourth year, you're paying 12 to the ministry.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Do you think it's it's a very competitive market here? If if if I'm a business and I would like to land to Saudi, is it a saturated market or is still the the market is still open for new businesses and new ideas, new solutions for problems existing? So what do you think in this?

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Saudi presents a larger opportunity. The geography is you uh so uh if you look at some of the major cities, um you have Jeddah, Riyadh, Tamam, Kobra, so so East, Central, and West. Um, and within that, you have huge scope to do business. Your counterparties that you can do business with, uh, there's a there's a large volume of people that you can, or companies that you can reach out to. Who is this tailored towards? It's tailored towards corporates coming into the country. I think there's a growing number of entrepreneurs who are also Saudis. So the small businesses, small medium, but you know, medium that number is quite large, so that's also corporates. But small businesses and startups uh are welcome here if it fits into the ecosystem. How do I know? Look, I think uh the entrepreneur ecosystem is tailored towards tech startups. That's what conventionally the Middle East VC ecosystem caters towards. And then other businesses uh are designed for Saudis. And I think rightfully so because uh there's a huge growing population of young Saudis who deserve their space, right? If somebody uh comes into a country and a bunch of foreigners come into that country and start eating into a space or an ecosystem, it's damaging for that country, regardless of being Saudi or anywhere else. Saudis done a phenomenal phenomenal job of attracting corporates and large corporates coming in. Now that that mid-space and you know, companies with a few million dollars of revenue coming in and seeing how they can navigate their business. Now there's a growing ecosystem of entrepreneurs and startups coming in, major VCs who are either present down here or uh investing here or partnered with the local VCs here, and that ecosystem is growing, that network is growing, the communication amongst VCs uh it's very visible through conferences that take place down here. That the VC ecosystem is something very important within the region and the country.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

There are a lot of VCs here in Saudi Arabia who can support uh startups who are coming from outside of Saudi by any chance?

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Yes. So I would say there's the building that network is what's hard for people. So I paused is because the common challenge I've heard from startups is navigating and accessing that venture ecosystem. But that problem exists both ways. The volume of deals any venture firm would get or any investment company or individual get. So, how do you know how to filter that? So not everybody can take up your time. But then equally, it's easy to miss what's good because that individual might be a great entrepreneur but doesn't have the network. But that's an issue that's always existed, not again related to here. Uh, and you have to invest time into building your network in that space. And and now because of the overlap with just the Middle East and venture capital and the wider world and venture capital, you you see that. So you see uh from the venture capital home, California, Middle East uh VCs are there and present out there. Let's go outside the GCC, but in Egypt now, there's a big push for venture capital. What wasn't on the map up until recently for venture, Morocco seems to be quite a notable destination now for venture capital. But you have to put in the hard work, and there's no easy solution for that. I wish there was actually, but it's not.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

So again, I am a business who came from outside Saudi, and I want to establish my business here. But I would like to have all my staff, all the operations, every person in the customer service and sales and everything in my original country or my in my country. What do you think about this decision? Does it work in Saudi?

SPEAKER_00 30:14

It works. You have to be aware that you're not fully integrated into this ecosystem. You're not fully present. It works. So let me give you how it works, but also some of the negatives associated to it. Companies want market entry, they want the ability to do business, win business, and then justify the cost of going into any country. When they see that justification there, they'll invest into the country, their own business, and hire more people. And that growth should also come into that specific country. As a landing solution, there's no harm in being a business owner, starting up in Saudi Arabia, being the shareholder and the general manager of your company, so you can navigate the landscape in the beginning, you mean? Yes. Okay. You have pretty much 12 months to do that because then you need to hire. So it's mixed feedback, but regulatory requirements-wise, you should hire a Saudi.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Yeah, yeah, but I mean there is a very important question here. Yeah. After getting the license done and everything is ready and all, and but by the way, there is a lot of digital portals to be, I mean, you need to take care of, right? And you're the first person who's landing like the GM of this company. If if you're the GM, you're the first employee in this company, right? Does it count as the first employee? Yes in this company? Okay. So you count it as the first employee. When the sodization comes in or the requirement of the sodization. When you're remote. Yes. Uh of the employee. I mean, there is a percentage of employees that needs to be Saudi.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

So if you've not hired ever in the first year, it certainly kicks in in the second year. However, as you grow the business, uh you're the you're the senior authority, someone coming into the country, whose second employee should be Saudi. Okay. Um what we've found, hesitation from foreign investment coming in on due to lack of awareness. We normally discuss that at the benefits. And I would say you can find some very good and talented Saudis across entire Saudi Arabia who you can hire your first employee. And there's a dual benefit. A, somebody who just understands the country. You can provide somebody, and I would say you could even hire, look, you can hire a very seasoned person. That's somebody you lift a budget for. Seasoned person meaning you you have somebody who knows the who knows how to run your business for you. So you can hire a very expensive person to come into your company, or you can hire somebody with zero to two years' experience. And that's a great opportunity for you to be able to train somebody in your company, your culture, what we discussed before. The fourth thing that I often tell companies when they're coming into the country is be aware of the budget's requirements when it comes to uh making sure that what do you want to do with your overall growth strategy here? Do you want to be just one GM CEO here and running the business? Or will you plan to hire? None of everybody knows, but normally people have a strategy when they're coming into Saudi Arabia, just due to the budgets that they have to uh invest to come into the country. So hiring to answer your question, your second employee should be a Saudi.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

I mean, how many government portals do I have to uh register with after getting the license? So it's I mean, I'm registering after getting the license, right? Yeah. Many, many portals to manage as a business owner, or yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

So so look, there's two ways to see it. And depends on your infrastructure. Large companies come in, they want to know everything, they want to outsource that work. People like us, support of that work. Smaller boutiques, they want to learn to keep the cost down or outsource because it's cheaper for them to outsource that than hiring somebody. There's a few main government portals that are required for you on a month-by-month basis. So how many portals, when you see the list, it seems quite shocking. But I would simplify that language. You have your incorporation portals for your commercial registration. Yeah, for the business setup. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

You have your HR portals. I guess you have a banking portal because your bank gives you online access. And uh tax. So if you if you use simple words, it's quite simple. But then the the sum number of portals, so you need to be able to manage just generally who's in your company, management of the overall staff, especially foreign staff coming in, which is your MUKIM, and uh payment of salaries, which is uh a portal in connection with uh with along with your bank, the the most crucial part for any business anywhere in the world, your your tax, so that can, and then your bank account.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

So everything is connected together. And once once you get used to how to manage those portals or hire someone who take care take care of those portals or even outsource, because there is uh companies, there are companies who are providing this service to manage portals on your behalf and keep you compliant uh 100% and give you reports and those kinds of stuff. But I mean, in my perspective, this was not done to complicate the things, this was done to keep you aware of how the things are going. So uh what are the biggest mistakes for any business who comes to Saudi and suddenly exit from Saudi or just vanish from Saudi? What are the biggest mistakes? You can't vanish from here.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

So you can't vanish from here very easily. No, it can't be fine. Yes, it does, it does, it does because people are not present and uh it can it can it can happen. So I I would say um have you having a business that you well I this happens when you haven't put enough attention or support uh framework into the country, the market entry is not cheap to come into Saudi Arabia. You want to make sure that you understand how Saudi works, you want to make sure that you understand your client base. If it's a case of you come in and you expect the business to come because you're present and you fail, and then then just deciding that you're no longer going to navigate uh or even support the economical cost associated to uh doing business here, then it causes a lot of red flags and compliance issues.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

So there is a very critical topic that I would like to open with you. I was hesitated actually to to talk about this. I mean, I know that the government knows that many businesses came here to Saudi Arabia and they are not 100% following the regulations, and maybe some of them they are just hiring some fake, not fake salarization, right? I mean, I don't I don't have I I I can't have any any any any other expression. This is the expression, fake salarization, right? What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_00 37:05

So look, I I think uh I I would answer that slightly different way. Hiring anybody, uh whether they work within your company or not, incurs a cost. If you're putting that money into something that is generating no real tangible ROI, it's a it's a sunken cost. Why not put that money into how you can train somebody, and that's where the opportunity comes from for the very talented young graduates that are uh coming through, and you can train those people. If you can't afford somebody who has more experience, hire graduates, train those graduates, those graduates will know how to work in your framework.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

And you said you said that the government is supporting also like through different programs.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Yes, correct. Yeah, one of the things that I mentioned we're looking into is people with disability.

unknown 38:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

And how and the government supports with that. And that came about by I've known about it since I first moved here, but more recently, our clients have come to us and found out that they can access um and they've had staff that they wanted to hire. So we've tried to bridge that gap between what the government can support with people with uh special needs and um uh and and employers.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Um I've been here for 10 years, right? And honestly, um I never feel like I'm uh I'm away from my home. And one of the one of the things that really made me feel this are the people, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:38

So look, I think I think um Saudi is filled with extremely friendly people, very kind people, very hospitable, very generous. You tell anybody, any Saudi, that you don't know where to have lunch, they will most likely tell you that they're gonna take you for lunch and show you the country. And if you tell them you're new into the country, they want to make sure that you have the best experience and will never let you pay. That kind of generosity is lost in most of the West.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

So you moved from UK to UAE, yeah, and then Saudi. Yeah. A lot of different stages in your life and a lot of decisions that you have made. Since this uh podcast called Karar, and Karar means uh decision, what is the most, you know, critical decision that you have made, whether it was, I mean, positive outcome afterwards or negative outcome after this decision?

SPEAKER_00 39:34

You know, for me, I would say the decision I've made or the decisions I make are often based around how do I want to look back and remember this journey, experience, and everything will built around that. Um commercially, it can come through. You can go anywhere and do well commercially. But what experience do I want to have and and how do I want to remember the experience I had? Um so from London to Dubai is a good experience. But London's an amazing place. Anybody that's there, the whole of the Middle East is there in summer, so uh it's a beautiful city. I always see you take it for granted having lived there. Um Dubai is or was home. We have businesses in Dubai, uh, so it still is home, uh, especially for the fact that we have businesses that uh for the last 20 years. And then I've had an interest in Saudi Arabia for the longest time because I was here 14 years ago. 14 years ago is a very different environment. But A, from a commercial perspective, I saw an opportunity, but very authentic, beautiful culture. Uh the the love from people to show you their culture and experience it and share that with you so that you go away and you can tell everybody else how amazing it is. So it's very inviting. So when the opportunity of moving here was there, I jumped on the opportunity. So so for me, again, if I I've not talked about from a financial standpoint, because that can be done anyway. But I just saw that this is this is the next step of what I want to do with my life journey, and it's been amazing. Fallen in love with Saudi, and it's uh it's something that uh I really enjoy done here. And I think you know, most people when they make that decision, um, some people commercial, of course, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

As a business owner here in Saudi, um, what do you look at when you hire someone?

SPEAKER_00 41:44

So I I think I mentioned to you earlier, accountability is very important for me. And I look at a proactive attitude, um, somebody who carries an element of ambition for themselves and just awareness of where they want to take themselves because then you know how to support that person, build their career, build their life. Just passion. It's so hard to find somebody who wakes up every day, good day by day, who's passionate about what they do. We all have life problems, or we all have days off where we're just not in the mood to do some work. But you carry that joy at work and that passion at work, and that carries through to the people you deal with and the willingness to just adjust and learn. Doesn't matter how good you were in your previous job, sometimes you don't have the experience and knowledge. So if you're willing to accept that I'd not, I don't I I can do something better or can be better than I was yesterday, then you'll you'll bring that to the company. Somebody who just thinks they're amazing will just bring a stagnant uh element uh to the company. So I look at a bunch of these things and just a personal touch with that person. That's just my choice, though. That's that's a very unique answer.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Really? Uh yeah. Because, you know, I mean I mean, I I I don't say this is wrong, but a lot of people have mentioned maybe the trendy stuff that I mean, like AI oriented plus plus plus. But you you mentioned something very, very, very true. Attitude is very important, willingness to learn is very important because afterwards you can teach, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Other things that other things you cannot buy. Someone reminded someone reminded me that some people just want to go to work, work, and leave and go home. Which is okay, and you need that in your team. I love being around with people that that have a drive for something normal. It creates a beautiful culture. So you need a balance. I don't think everybody should work for your company that wants to be an entrepreneur because that's a nightmare as well.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

But I mean, I I I have seen a lot of CEOs and a lot of people who don't really care about what uh what we when you mention to them work culture, building company culture, they don't care. I mean, I have I have rules in my company to follow. I'm hiring for specific tasks. If it's done, this employee is good. If it's not done, this employee is not good. And that's it. Our relationship is just business or pure business.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

That's most places, yeah. I guess that you're right.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Yeah. I mean, but you want to have enjoy that company and the people that you work with. But but why? Why there is there is some other people like you in in business and they're still successful and surviving.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Yeah, so this is a good good question. Um, you can hire someone very functional, they do the job, they leave, and a lot of people are like that. I do want to enjoy the people I work with, and I want to I want to work with people that I you know their company is good. But in addition to that, if you have all of those characters in person, you know that that person's willingness to grow is there. So if you have a passion, you don't need to train that person just from the standard training that you provide. They will go out of the way to make themselves better every day. And you can't always teach that. So if you ask somebody, what are the how can you do the same thing better? Most people will know the answer. But if you keep thinking how to improve the service that you are providing, and we're in the business of providing services, just constantly improves for our clients. The digital experience, for us, the business is providing the best experience into Saudi Arabia. Without giving too much away, we provide a phenomenal end-to-end digital experience that comes from ideas, that comes from staff who we need the best efficiency out of. So it's a combination of brainstorming and execution very quickly. If they're stuck on the idea that this is how we do it, we'll never change from that. The experience you give your clients is not going to be very good. Your business is not going to be that impressive, and eventually you'll be outdated. Personally, it's not going to be a lot of fun to work in that place. And just the general, the impact you make. So you so for me, like I said, it's a journey. I want to have fun, but if you're around good people that push you to just be that little bit better, the entire framework works very well.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

So uh one last question. What does it mean the local content and uh why it's very important, Saudi? Because they are talking about it everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Yeah, you target audience, because you target audience and you again saying Saudi is enormous and predominantly Saudi. Saudi companies, Saudi people, um and and you're you're supporting or selling to or providing a service to or working with people from within the country. Um one of the most important parts of this is understanding how information is absorbed, how culturally you convey um any message, and then how do you work with somebody? Again, like I said earlier, some people are ultra generous, and you do not talk about business maybe two or three times of meeting, and you have to know that that method. Um and and how you present information visually, linguistically, the the delivery itself is very, very important. So as companies grow down here, understanding of how to deliver information or providing content in a uh suitable for uh the local environment is very important. Um, and again, you know, one of the I'll say the fifth things we we we mentioned to clients is start to understand how you do business down here. The sales cycles are longer. The, like I said, the delivery of information is very different in comparison to other countries, especially the West. The the way you communicate cold calls. Somebody I read somebody recently that cold calls don't work. Trust. Trust also. Look, I think it's a good thing because trust is built over time. Um, this is not an environment that you come into, plan to do some business very quickly, and then need giving myself as an example. I've been in the region for 20 years. There's always one or two degrees of separation of in certain industries, people can check if you're somebody that's accessible, known, good person or bad person. It's not as binary as that, but you know, you people in the business community know who you are. Um, and that trust is built over time and your agenda in the country. So um it's very applicable to Saudi Arabia, but very also applicable within the region. Uh, obviously, anybody based here leverages Saudi Arabia to also access the wider market, but just understanding things culturally. So I think it's it's very important to understand how that's navigated.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

Uh Tisawar, I was really happy to have you today here in uh this podcast. And um thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Because I know that you have a lot of stuff to do.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

No, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Uh, it's been uh you know off camera and whilst talking to you, it's been very entertaining. And uh really, really uh thank you for having me and hopefully we continue our conversations offline and online. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

Thank you so much, and hopefully that we have provided already also useful information to um anyone who is looking to uh land in Saudi Arabia with his business. Absolutely. Look forward to it. Thank you. Thank you, thank you.