Sherri's Story for His Glory

In this episode Sherri explains:

1. A little about her family's history.
2. How her mom and dad grew up.
3. The repetitive cycle of trauma.
4. What Sherri survived in her childhood.
5. Some of the mistaken beliefs that embedded themselves along the way.
6. Early dating relationships and marriage.
7. Her story of saying "yes" to The Lord.
8. The power and impact of love and non-judgement.

Edit: Sherri's dad has two brothers, not three.

If you feel triggered by any information in this podcast, or if you feel led to start your own therapeutic healing journey, please visit psychologytoday.com to find a mental health therapist in your area.

If you are having suicidal thoughts, please call 911 or 988 for support. You can also visit 988lifeline.org for more resources, and information.

Remember.....YOU MATTER!

To schedule a discovery session with Sherri, please go to Elevatetoabundantlife.com. 

The information provided in this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. This podcast is not intended to replace professional medical advice.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to Divine and Most Unlikely, A Cause for the Kingdom, with Sherry Conrad and Nathan. Sherry and I are here to help you find healing, develop or enhance your relationship with God, and instill hope in an upside-down world, and learn to laugh out loud. Uh, because let me tell you, Sherry's got some good laughter.

SPEAKER_05 0:21

I think we both have good laughter, Nathan. We have a lot of fun laughing together.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Yeah, we do.

SPEAKER_05 0:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Okay, so when you and I were thinking about this podcast, as a general rule, you and I try not to script things too much. Correct. We have some ideas about important topics, but we don't write a script. We'll kind of maybe just write bullets.

SPEAKER_05 0:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

This is a little bit different. Tell me why it's different this time.

SPEAKER_05 0:46

Oh, Nathan, good question. This one is different because shortly after we finished the last one, I felt the Lord impress upon my heart to tell the story about how you became my Isaac.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:00

And in order to tell that story, um, and to help you better understand what I mean about Nathan becoming my Isaac, I want to tell a little bit of my life story that led up to that point of you becoming my Isaac.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:15

It's a story of great hope and restoration. The Lord has, I believe, I know in my life, and I think even in your life right now, he has us in a season of restoration, restoring what the locusts have eaten. And many years ago, and I'm gonna guess, around 2003, um, so here comes a little bit of my story, and I'm just gonna pause for a minute because I did want to give a little bit of a trigger warning. My story includes um some death of family members, it includes uh an abortion story, it includes domestic violence, alcoholism, some things that might trigger the listening audience. And so I just want to give that little bit of a warning, but I also want to encourage you if you if you can to hang around because it's a really story of redemption. It's a story of his glory coming in and redeeming what the enemy tried to steal, kill, and destroy.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

So there's some some darkness here. Want to give people just that warning up front. And the darkness is not the end of the story. The darkness leads to some pretty cool light.

SPEAKER_05 2:20

Yes, Nathan. The darkness is never, never the end of the story. And boy, do I I could pause right here and preach, but the dark I'm not going to. But you guys, the darkness is never the end of the story. There's darkness all around us right now on the earth. Um, especially I would say in the state of Minnesota where we live, but the there's darkness all around the earth, but there is a lot of light too. There's a lot of light. So I would encourage everyone to look for the light and in this pop podcast specifically look for the light.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 2:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

So tell me where do you want to begin this particular story?

SPEAKER_05 3:01

Well, I think, Nathan, where I want to begin is telling you that I went for many years um not having any major losses in my life as far as my loved ones passing away. Um, and they weren't necessarily back-to-back, but sadly, I lost my sister in 2009 at the age of 47. She, as part of her trauma response, she became a drug addict and an alcoholic and started um experimenting with drugs. I think she was probably around, I'm gonna guess 10 or 11. I I have um some amnesia from my childhood.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 3:41

Um, I remember bits and pieces from my childhood from about the ages of zero to eleven.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Do you want do you want to talk a little bit about what you do remember?

SPEAKER_05 3:50

Yeah, that's gonna definitely be in the story. Sadly, what I do remember, I do have some positive memories, but not a lot. Most of my memories are are the memories where it was like life and death and really scary stuff.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:04

Um, sadly, that's where most of my memories are. But I feel like the amnesia is there because it's God's way of protecting me to not, you know, be able to remember all of it. But at the same time, some of the positives, I'm sure there were some positive experiences because I think you know, I think no matter what our life story is, there's some positives, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 4:27

Right? Yeah, so okay. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

All right.

SPEAKER_05 4:32

So, yeah, I'm gonna start with the deaths. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Okay, because I had not had many losses. My sister died in 2009 um from cirrhosis of the liver. Um, and then my mom died. Really sad story. She died in 2020 in the height of COVID, and she had a surgery, and they gave her, she had a really negative um response to the amnesia. Not amnesia, anesthetic, anesthetic. She had a really negative response to the anesthesia. And she woke up from the surgery combative, and they kept her knocked out a little bit longer. And so she never fully recovered. She came out of that that experience with a lot of memory loss, a little some dementia symptoms, and and things like that. And she she just never fully recovered. And she ended up dying sadly in a nursing home. And we were one of those families that was impacted by um the COVID rules that you can't see your loved ones and all of those things, and and it was complicated anyway because she was in Texas, and I'm, you know, was far away in Minnesota, so it was already complicated.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:39

Um, but very, very sad. Um, she passed away in 2020, and then as you know, my dad passed away in August of 2025. So I've done a lot of work with my trauma, but when someone significant passes away, it can peel back a whole other layer that needs to be healed. So I really want to start out my story letting everyone know, and you've already heard a little bit about my childhood and and my dad's alcoholism and the domestic violence that was present. But I want to just start out the story saying that um I truly believe, Nathan, and I think you agree with me, that people do the best that they can do.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Without a doubt, right? Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 6:19

People do what they know, yes?

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 6:21

Um, I think my daughter loves this phrase, and I have this hanging in my office. I don't know if you've if you'll remember it, Nathan, but um, a picture that says it's a phrase by Maya Angelo that says, when you know different, then you do different. Right. Or when you know better, then you do better. Right. And that's when we're responsible, is when we learn different and healthier responses to have. And um my dad did eventually do that, I think. As he aged, as he got older, he became kinder, he stopped drinking, he became as loving as he knew how to be. He never really, he never really was able to fully love, like, like in a very sincere way. And so, um, and that was sad, but I was I was happy that he became nicer and he was really funny. You know, you think I'm funny, I think that's where I get my sense of humor from because he was really funny and joyful towards I would say not too long after they got divorced. They got divorced, my parents got divorced when I was probably I'm gonna guess 12, 11 or 12. Um, and he kind of became he slowly became more fun after they divorced. He did physically abuse um several women before he married my current stepmother, and um he slowly kind of outgrew that, right? But so my mom grew up with 13 siblings.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Wow, right? That is a big family, it's a big family.

SPEAKER_05 7:50

Nathan, I asked one time, I asked my grandmother, like, Mom, do you know do you know how that happened? And she said, Well, we didn't have a TV back then. Yep, and then my dad grew up with um three siblings, and my mom and her her birth father was an abusive alcoholic. Okay, and then somewhere along the way, even way back in those days, my uh no, I think actually he died. They didn't divorce, he died. Um, so and then she married a much nicer man. And my dad, uh, my dad's parents were very mentally ill. And my dad and I think the other boys, um, his three brothers, I think it's three brothers, um, were very physically abused. And my dad, just pretty tough from the get-go. He he shared the story with me that he refused to cry when they would beat him, and that made that made them beat him even more, trying to get him to cry. Um, and then they they told him throughout his life that he would be in prison by the time he was 21. So he definitely did not, neither of them grew up in the in the early years in really good homes in that sense. But my dad, for all of his childhood, um, lived with the mentally ill parents and um just very abusive. I can't even imagine. He, I don't remember at what age, but my grandparents made him pay for deodorant and pay for basic necessities. They kind of kept a track of how much that costs and he had to pay for it.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 9:28

Yeah. And he ended up leaving home. He told me at like 12 or 13.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 9:34

I know, I know.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

That is incredible.

SPEAKER_05 9:37

I know. He was very entrepreneurial, and he did not graduate high school, he could barely read. Um, he could write, but he could barely read, and he ended up becoming fairly wealthy throughout his life and was able to help a lot of people. And very interestingly, he helped my grandparents a lot. He bought them houses, he bought them cars, he bought them jewelry. Whenever my dad would get, you know, some fancy piece of jewelry, so would my grandfather, you know, and so I never quite understood that, but I I kind of think that was his way of saying, ha, I'm not in prison. Look at me, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:20

Um, so anyway, very interesting history. So I just want to preface before I share any more of my story that they both there's always a reason, right? Whenever you grow up in trauma, that usually means something happened to your parents. Yeah. Right? Because we just repeat what we know, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 10:37

I was not the worst parent, but I was not the best parent because I tried to overcorrect. You've probably heard me say a lot that on that scale of zero to ten, if you're trying to overcorrect at a 10, that's not healthy either, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:52

So I tried to overcorrect. I became very religious, kind of like a Pharisee in my earlier years of faith. Um, sadly got involved with um a really religious-based church, and just my faith got really twisted in that way. So I just became over tried to over-correct. And so not a great parent in that way, and just not emotionally mature at all, couldn't handle my emotions and that kind of stuff, and a lot of anxiety, as you can imagine. And then, as you've as you know, and as I've shared, I think before, married to alcoholics, of course, kind of going, finishing that pattern, not finishing, but continuing in the generational curse of addiction, being attracted to addiction.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah, trauma attracting trauma.

SPEAKER_05 11:37

Trauma attracting trauma. Yep, yep. So my dad being um, my dad was very physically abusive, just to my mom. Um, he he was emotionally abusive to us. I wasn't allowed really to have a voice. I frequently heard, you better shut up or I'll give you something to cry about. Or little girls are to be seen and not heard. And so I was never taught about emotions, wasn't really allowed to have a voice, and I'm pretty sure I became like I developed perfectionism pretty young.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 12:10

Right? Because I think I and these are assumptions because I really don't remember, right? But I think I became um like a perfect child or really focused on perfectionism, trying to keep my mom safe because I'm pretty sure I thought if I upset the apple cart, if I did anything to upset the apple cart, that my dad may might kill my mom.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Right? Jeez, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:34

So I I was a pretty good kid, and I've heard all of my life, even into my adult life, I've heard you were such a good kid, you didn't need us. Oh do you know of any kids that don't need their parents?

SPEAKER_00 12:49

I don't know of any kids that don't need their parents. Yeah, you get a lot from your parents, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:54

Right, right. So when I heard that along the way in my life, I thought um I was I just was astounded by that belief. Like that, oh, I was such a good kid, I didn't need to be parented. Right. I was like, every kid needs their parent.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Right, right.

SPEAKER_05 13:11

Yeah, so my sister was very needy throughout her life. I think throughout her life, she was in in and out of 10 drug rehabilitation programs.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 13:21

Yeah, yeah. She really consumed my parents when they were married, and then afterwards she really consumed my mom because my mom couldn't keep her in school and just constantly getting kicked out of school and in trouble at school and and doing all kinds of drugs. She did some crazy stuff. I think she even kind of concocted her own crack and stuff. She did some crazy things, which the one good thing, um one good thing that came out of all of that is that it scared me to death. I didn't hardly do any drugs. I smoked a little marijuana, but I didn't do any other drugs. So that was a really good thing. And then my brother was the chosen male of the family. My my dad made my mom keep having kids until she had a boy. So he was the chosen male, and which that's a whole other story that I'm not gonna tell because that's his story, but um a lot of pressure on him being the chosen male and the one to take over my dad's business and um that kind of stuff. So yeah. So I was just kind of a lone ranger, I think, most of my life, right? Um, trying to find my way. And in that um, in that process of trying to find my way, and the Lord, the Lord showed me, he reminded me again at my when my dad died at his funeral. Um, the Lord had told me this before, but he told me again, he told me that there was uh like a generational curse of sexual perversion over my family. Um, because my dad was very sexual, had lots of girlfriends. Um he was married three times, and my mom was very sexual, lots of boyfriends, lots of men in and out of the house after they got divorced. And so that's that's what we as three kids witnessed, right? And then um unfortunately, um it impacted all three of us, right? That that spirit of sexual perversion impacted all three of us. I became sexual at a young age, I was 13 years old. Wow, yeah, 13 years old. Do you know of any 13-year-olds?

SPEAKER_00 15:28

I not no, I don't.

SPEAKER_05 15:31

No, well, when I see a 13-year-old today, Nathan, I'm like, oh my gosh, they're just a little kid. Yeah, right. They're just a little kid. Absolutely. Our brains don't develop until I think they say these days, 26, 27, right? And a 13-year-old having sex. Yeah, right. And then my sister was very sexual, and my brother, again, I'm not gonna speak for him because I don't I don't fully remember his whole story, but I know pornography. He was active with pornography at a pretty young age, so um, just a strong spirit of sexual perversion, even some pictures that I got after my mom died. Pictures of us, like, I don't know, expose just exposing things. And again, I was 12 or 13 in those pictures, and my mom was having the same poses, and I was just like, what the heck is going on, right? Yeah, so anyway, a strong spirit of sexual perversion as I have matured in the faith and matured in my life. I've definitely cut off that generational curse so that it won't go any further, and thankfully it has not been passed on, you know, to my girls. And so that that was a beautiful thing, and not it's not gonna be passed on to my grandchildren. And so generational curses can be broken, you guys. And if you don't know about that, do some research because it's really important because those things can be passed down to us, just like the alcoholism or drug addiction or sexually acting out, those things get passed down through generations, so it's really important to break those curses. So um I I want to go back just for a minute before I jump back into me being sexually active. Um, the two main memories that I have of my dad and my mom and the domestic violence was one I just heard about, and the other one I witnessed, there was a time I was in fifth grade, and I rem I remember being in fifth grade because I ran back to the house to check on my mom, me and my sister both. I was in elementary school and she was in junior high. But there was one time where my dad just severely beat my mom. It was before school, and I remember blood being in the hallway and all over the front door. I don't know if my mom had tried to get out the front door. I don't know, I don't know what happened. But my dad also carried a gun with him, and so um I think it I was just probably really scared all the time, right? As a little girl. Um, but so this was all before school, and I I don't know if my mom was passed out. I just remembered there being blood everywhere, and mom usually drove us to school, and I remember my dad yelling at us, go get in the car. He was driving us to school, and this was back in the day where you know we would fight over the front seat. I don't know if you grew up. Yep, grew up in that era, but we would fight over the front seat, but all three of us were in the back seat, and because we were all three terrified, right? My sister was in junior high, I was in elementary, and my brother also in elementary. So my dad comes out to the car and he's like, Why isn't anybody in the front seat? And I don't remember if one of us got into the front seat or not, but he dropped us off at school, and I don't remember if me and my sister connected because the junior high was pretty close to my elementary school. I don't remember if we connected. I honestly don't even know how I I guess in fifth grade I guess I knew the path, but we both ran home from school to make sure my mom was alive. I remember that. I don't remember going into the house and seeing what we found, anything like that. But I, you know, she was obviously alive. He didn't kill her. Um, but that was one of my most traumatic memories of him and domestic violence. And then another one was he had taken her out. I think I she had hired, she had hired, I think this is how the story goes. She had hired a private detective to watch him. This was after they'd gotten divorced, and then I think she was having an affair, or maybe it was before they got divorced. No, it was before they got divorced because I think she had an affair with the private detective, supposedly, and my dad found out, and so my dad took her out in the country and he was gonna kill her. And um, my dad and his best friend at the time later I talked to them about this, and the best friend was like, Yeah, thank God your dad got his wits about him and called me, and I told him to knock it off and all this stuff. So she survived that as well. And I think she came home and told us the story.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 19:56

About that.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

And how old were you?

SPEAKER_05 19:58

That one I don't remember. I don't remember which one of those stories came first.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 20:03

So I don't remember, but I if they got divorced when I was 11, it had to be before I was 11. So young, young, but yeah, that's the only way that I would know that is if she came home and told that story. Right. Um, I don't think my dad came home to tell that story. But as an adult, and somewhere along the way in my healing journey, the Lord took me back to that time where we were all in the backseat of the car, and Jesus gave me a picture that he was in the front seat of the car that day.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 20:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

That is really powerful.

SPEAKER_05 20:37

It was very healing. It was very, very healing. Um, and I as you know, I just recently went to a writer's advance conference, and someone prophesied over me, don't know this part, but someone prophesied over me that Jesus has just always been with me through that. And I have no doubt, right? There was another time where um where he we had my dad was being abusive, and all three of us kids were in my bedroom, and we pushed the dresser in front of my bedroom door so my dad couldn't get us because we never knew if he was gonna come after us. He didn't come after us physically, but we didn't know that as kids. Can you imagine? I we you can't predict that, right? You can't predict that. So we had blocked um the door with um with the dresser. I think we might have called the police that time, but I don't remember. Um, and I saw Jesus and my and when he took me back to that memory as an adult, he was sitting on my bed in that situation. Wow, yeah, yeah. So he's he's done some really cool, um, he's helped me heal in some really cool ways, taken me back to those days and shown me some things, um, which has been amazing, right? Yeah. Uh more of the story of redemption and transformation, right? And you guys, uh, it it just doesn't matter what you've been through, where you've come from, what you've done. Oh, I'm just telling you his day. With his arms wide open to welcome you and to love you and to pour his love out over you. It truly doesn't matter. It truly doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you're sitting in a prison cell right now. It it just truly doesn't matter. He is there to invite you into his heart and to have a relationship with him, with him, and to bring healing. Right?

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:20

And you've you've experienced that, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:23

I absolutely have.

SPEAKER_05 22:24

Yeah, yeah. In your journey, you've experienced that. All right. So let's go back to 13, being sexually active. And crazy, crazy, crazy. I think that my he I think he was maybe my second boyfriend at age 13, but he was my first sexual interaction. And he was, I believe, at the time, 16 or 17.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Oh okay.

SPEAKER_05 22:48

Now looking back on that as an adult, I'm like, what 16 or 17-year-old do you know that wants to be with a 13-year-old?

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Right.

SPEAKER_05 22:58

So that that's troubling to me as I look back on that. Um, but we we were dating, and at the age of, I think I might have been, I'm still 13 or either 14. He gave me a promise ring. That was back in the day when we gave we got promise rings, and of course I thought I was really cool because I had a promise ring. And he had he had like a Camaro with pipes on it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:25

It's Tim that told me I'm gonna come out.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

A little bit.

SPEAKER_05 23:31

Um, he had a really cool car. Um, so of course I was impressed by that. Um, and I got a promise ring, and then I think I must have been talking to my mom about marriage because um I got an engagement ring. I don't know how long after the promise ring, but I got an engagement ring. He wanted to get married. Wow, yeah, he wanted to get married, and in my little head, in my little young, naive head, I did too. And you know what this is bringing up for me?

SPEAKER_01 24:02

What's it bringing up? This is Cinderella and Prince Charming?

SPEAKER_05 24:08

Cinderella and Prince Charming, yes, but um no, the time we were in session and I was I was talking about men, and you guys when Nathan wants to laugh, he turns his head, he tries not to laugh. Um we were in my office one day and talking, having a conversation about men, and this is I think as we were trying to become friends, you know. Um, and do you I just love how you say it.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

I don't even remember like the full context of what what came before that, but what I remember is we're getting ready to we're literally getting up like to end the session. And then Sherry looks at me, she goes, You know, I don't even like men. And I'm already laughing, like that's hilarious. And then there's a brief pause on her end while I'm laughing, and she goes, Well, I liked him well enough to marry him, I guess. And just, I mean, I was crying laughing. One of the funniest things you've ever said to me.

SPEAKER_05 25:13

That's one of the funniest things for sure. Yeah, sometimes you guys, when things come out of my mouth, I'm like, Did I really just say that? Um, and I really did just say that that day. And as I've thought back about that, it's the example I was given. You gotta have a man.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 25:33

You gotta have a man. And I don't think I was taught love that I didn't I don't think love had anything to do with you gotta have a man. Oh I just think it was you gotta have a man. Okay, yeah, yep. And I think that went for my dad being with women and my mom being with men, right? Because um, yeah. Some, you know, I wouldn't say there was high moral characters and high values with the men that came through our home in those days, you know what I mean? So I don't, I don't even I oh I'm not gonna say that part, but I don't I just don't think I looked, I don't think that was a top priority in my mind to look for someone with high character and high value in relationships because I don't think I knew anything about that, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Well, right, and if you're talking about being 13 years old, what what 13-year-old with a 13-year-old's brain has a strong grasp on what elements of character you're looking for in a man or husband?

SPEAKER_05 26:40

Yep, yep, yep. And so, yeah, I I definitely didn't know any of those things back then, right? And so my mother was gonna let us get married. I think we were talking to her about that when I was 15, like 13 to 15. It was promise, engagement. And then we're talking about marriage, and thank God somehow I came to my wits. Um I don't know, but I broke up with him. He became suicidal, he literally kept track of me the majority of my life. He reached out to me when I was in my 40s and we had a conversation, and even now looking back, I just think, man, that was weird. All of that was so weird. Um, so we broke up, and then I knew nothing about birth control. Okay, nothing. No, I don't remember. I highly doubt I was had any kind of conversations about, you know, the sex talk. I highly doubt that ever happened. Um, and so I think the next guy I met is the guy who got me pregnant, definitely not an upstanding young man. Um, and my mom at this point was with my stepdad, and I'm pretty sure they were married at that point.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 27:51

Um, now my stepdad was married when my mom met him, and he left two children and a pregnant wife for my mother. So um that's a whole story in and of itself. But I became pregnant, and I remember, I vaguely remember thinking, oh no, I might be pregnant because my my period didn't come. And I went and had a pregnancy test, and sure enough, I was pregnant. No, I didn't know anything about being pregnant either, obviously. And I remember telling my mom, and she just straight up said, You can have it and raise it, or you can have an abortion. And I don't think there was any dialogue about adoption um or anything like that. And I don't remember how I made the decision, but I do remember the doctor said when I went to see the doctor, he said, if you're worried about God and religion, God'll forgive you. You know, I don't think I asked him anything about God, but that's just what he said. And um, so I opted for abortion at the age of 15. 15. 15. Yeah, can you imagine?

SPEAKER_00 28:58

I can't. Yeah, I can't.

SPEAKER_05 29:01

Yep, yep. Fifteen years old. So I um opted for abortion and I had an abortion, and after the abortion, went right back to living life the way I had lived it because that's what I knew. Um thank goodness I did not get pregnant again. Um, I did meet my first husband at the ripe old age of 16. At the ripe old age of 16, Nathan.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:30

And um, I had a cool car this time. Yeah, I had a Z28, a dark blue Z28. I love that car. Um, and I was cruising the strip in Texas, such a small town, cruising the strip with a girlfriend, and we picked up my husband and his friend, and I started dating my husband, and she started dating his friend. And I did get married at the ripe old age of 17.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 29:57

17.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 29:58

17. I was a junior, Nathan. A junior in high school.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Oh my gosh. I just I know who I was when I was 17 years old.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

I would not have been a good husband. That is wow.

SPEAKER_05 30:14

Mm-hmm. Well, I didn't know how to be a wife, that's for dang true. That poor husband, that poor husband ate a lot of goulash. He ate a lot of goulash because I learned how to make goulash in Girl Scouts.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Hey, that's that's that's a good foundational.

SPEAKER_05 30:39

Oh, you're being really kind right now, Nathan. I remember trying to make gravy, and gravy turned out something I could throw against a wall. Oh my gosh, it wasn't very gravy-ish. Um, and my mom, you know, my mom used to stay on me when I was a teenager, like, you need to learn how to cook. You better let me teach you how to cook. You're gonna need to know how to cook. And I didn't want anything to do with cooking, as you know. And um honestly, you guys, this is a little embarrassing to admit as a former trauma therapist, but um Nathan, Nathan called called that out as a trauma response, right? Um, and I don't think I'd ever connected those dots because I think I and I don't I don't have specific memories of this, but my dad was really um, he wanted dinner on the table when he got home, and it better be hot, right? And I don't know if my mom would get beat if it wasn't on the table. I don't have those specific memories, but dinner on the table was really important to him. Cleaning your plate was really important to him. I think my mentally ill grandparents had a lot of issues with food in general. Okay, um, and that I think my dad had very disordered thinking around food, and that that trickled down for sure. He was really into body image, as were my grandparents, and then um, and then that trickled down to my mom, and that trickled down to all three of us kids. We've all three struggled with our weight and a lot of shame around it and all that kind of stuff, but I had not until I don't know how long ago, two or three years ago, maybe even sooner than that, connected me not liking to cook with with trauma, right? But I do think that's kind of my F you, if you will, to my dad, maybe you know. I think even Nathan, sadly, over the years, um my excess weight was even an F you to my dad, right? Because my dad was with his focus on body image, with his focus on body image and his like not uh me not being allowed to have emotions, me not being allowed to talk, me not being heard, right? Yeah, so when you grow up under extreme control like that, um my response, I'm not gonna talk for everybody, but because we can all have different responses, but my response was loud and proud, F you. Yeah, right, yeah, and somewhere I think in my unconscious mind, I don't think it was a conscious thing, but the excess weight I think became an F you. And sadly, the only F you it really impacted is to myself, right? Right, because it harms myself, right? Yeah, so whenever you guys, if you think you're doing something like to be in control or to get back at someone, guess who it's really guess guess who it's really harming?

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Right, right?

SPEAKER_05 33:24

Yeah, who's it really harming?

SPEAKER_00 33:26

It really harms that individual themselves, not the not the person who the object is to cause harm to right, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 33:32

And you've gone through a little bit of that yourself. Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:39

When we've had conversations around the importance of forgiving others, right? Yes. And you went through this big thing with forgiveness and um yeah, had to embrace that the anger when we oh, and you guys have heard my story about being angry, right? I was so angry, so angry. Um, even into my gosh, 30s and 40s, I think I carried a lot of anger. And sadly, my my second ex-husband, they're both alcoholics. One and two, we're both. Oh, my my funny brain wants to say thing one and thing two, but I'll just I'll just whisper that. Um, they were both alcoholics, and um I think that definitely put fuel on the fire of my anger, right? In the second marriage, especially.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:27

Um, so yeah, I carried a lot of anger for years. Um, and it only it only hurts us, right? It only hurts us literally physically, you guys. It causes physical illnesses um when you when you're when you carry that much anger. Yeah, it's just not good for your body. There's so many studies. There's the ACES studies, I think I've mentioned that before, but the adverse childhood experience studies. Um, if you have experienced from one to seven of the adverse childhood experiences, um your physical health is likely to go downhill. The more of the more out of that one to seven you've experienced, the more physical harm it can cause. And I um I don't know if I checked every one of those symptoms, but I checked quite a few of those symptoms. So anyway, um, okay, so here comes here comes the the positive part, right? The positive part of when I had an abortion and I I I grew up and got married the first time, and I was able to stay faithful in both marriages, um, which I think is quite miraculous, given the way I was raised and given the way I was as a teenager. Um, and then got divorced the first time and then became more sexually active again after the divorce and then married for the second time.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

I want to ask one question. I want you to keep going, but there's one other thing I want to just because I think it's important for people to know. How young were you when you had your first child?

SPEAKER_05 35:58

It's a good question, Nathan. I was 19.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

19. 19.

SPEAKER_05 36:02

Pregnant at 18 and had her at age 19. And um, I will never ever forget. She and I were having a conversation because my oldest daughter, um, I won't give her age, but um, because uh in order to honor her, I won't give her I won't give her age, but um I had a I was having a conversation with her because I've talked to her off and on throughout her life, just trying to correct all the wrongs, you know, that I did along the way, asking forgiveness, all the things. And um, and and she's done a lot of her own work too. And she said to me, Mom, when you had me, and I have a grandson, you guys, who is about to turn um 17. She said, Mom, when you had me, you were only four years older than Jaden. And Jaden, of course, was 15 when she said that. Yeah, and so I was like, right, and a 15-year-old boy, do you know how do you know do you know how mature?

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Oh, yes. I have I have been a 15-year-old boy once many moons ago, and I was yeah, I was I was not very mature.

SPEAKER_05 37:08

Yeah, so when she said that, I was just like, oh my gosh. I was very immature, didn't know a thing about parenting other than what, you know, other than what I had experienced, and I just wasn't, I don't know, I I didn't know what to expect. I, you know, I I knew that I wanted someone to love.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

Oh yeah. You have well, yeah. You guys, I'm sure that you've already picked this up, but one thing about Sherry is she's got a heart about as big as Texas. So that that wanting someone to love completely makes sense to you.

SPEAKER_05 37:45

Yeah, I wanted someone to love, but the maybe not so healthy part, Nathan, was I wanted someone to love me.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:52

And I wanted to do parenting differently.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:56

You know, I thought I was doing marriage differently, and I was. There was no physical abuse. Um, but I didn't know how to be a wife either for sure.

SPEAKER_02 38:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:06

Right? I didn't know how to be a wife. Um, but I figured out how to be a mom slowly but surely. Um, and then after my second marriage, I believe I was 26 or 27 when I got married the second time. We travailed for 28 years and then got divorced. But um the first year into that marriage, the Lord had already been pursuing me. Um before I married him, the Lord had been pursuing me, and I would be having these doing just go going to party at bars and sleeping around and all kind of stuff. And I would wake up on Sunday morning and find myself in a church. And I would be like, How in the world did I get here? I literally don't even like remember how I got there. I don't think anyone invited me, anything like that. And then I got married, and then um I was living in Texas, and we we moved to Michigan, and then we moved to South Carolina, and there we bought a house in South Carolina, and there was a church like I don't know, a couple blocks from us, and Sangary Baptist Church in South Carolina. And Nathan, that is where that 15-year-old girl got healed from the impact of having an abortion. I will never forget, I was in a Sunday school class with women after I had very reluctantly, you guys, very reluctantly received the Lord. He kept on my tail for, I don't know, for a while, hot and heavy. And um, that was back in the day when they had pews in churches. Some churches still do, but most don't. But they had pews, and I would literally, Nathan, grab a hold of the pew when the Lord, because the spirit, I could feel the spirit calling me, and I didn't know what was happening. I didn't know the late had have any language for what was happening, but the Lord was calling me, and I would grab a hold of the pew. That'd be like, and this was back in the day when you walked up the aisle to receive the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Oh, yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_05 39:57

But I would grab a hold of the pew and be like, nope, nope, nope, not doing that, not doing that. I am too young for that. I still have a life to live. I got partying to do, I got, I got things to do. I am too young for that. And that went on until I just couldn't anymore. And finally, I was like, in my mind, I was like, fine, I will say yes if you'll leave me alone.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 40:24

Uh-huh. You can't imagine me being stubborn, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:27

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_05 40:28

Nope. Nope. So I finally said yes um to the Lord, and my daughter actually said yes on that same day with me, and we both came to know the Lord and got baptized. And I started that Sunday school class. And I just remember being in that Sunday school class, and I think one woman had a son with bipolar disorder, and they were having there were there were some older ladies in that class. Um, one who is still a very, very dear friend to me this day, Josie. So, Josie, I'm sure you're listening to this because you love the podcast. So, hello, and thank you for all of your love over these years. Josie, you're my longest friend. We have been friends for 37 years, Josie and I.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

What a gift.

SPEAKER_05 41:09

What a gift. Yep. She has so loved me over the years, um, super unconditionally. And you want to talk about laughing. My daughter can tell you some stories about she and I just like being just like lost in joy and laughter. And my daughter was like, What have you guys been smoking? And we're like, We haven't been smoking anything. We promise it's the joy of the Lord. So um, she was Josie was in that that Sunday school class with the women, and a woman named Kathy was in there. And both of them just they were just so loving and kind and so down to earth, um, unlike uh my my grandparents, my dad's parents, who who were they called themselves Christians, but um they were not a good example, I would sadly say of that. But um, and so for many, many years, because of their example, I didn't want anything to do with God, right? Yeah, my my my dad would beat my mom and my mom would call them for help and they would just come and sit and read the Bible. Now I know that might sound nice and good, but when you've got a mother who you think is dead, um I didn't receive that very well. Just coming, just coming to read the Bible, even as a young kid, age whatever, 10, 9, 10, 11, whatever. I did not receive that well.

SPEAKER_03 42:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:25

Right? And so it took me a long time to trust God and to know that he was a loving God and that he cared. Um and I know that there are people that are gonna hear this story that um that you think God is not a loving God. Right? And um, I'm just gonna tell you he is, no matter what your experiences are, he is a loving God. He is a loving God. I went through all the horrific things in my childhood and I had a lot to overcome. But you guys, he pursued me, he pursued me until I said yes. And he didn't care, Nathan. He didn't care if it was uh dragging my heels, yes. He did not care, he did not care. He said, I'll take it. He said, I'll take it. And I have had a lot of things that happened after that because I didn't even know that I had experienced trauma until I got saved. Can you believe that?

SPEAKER_00 43:39

I absolutely can.

SPEAKER_05 43:40

Yep. I didn't know I and then man, when I got saved, the filters came off my eyes. And whoa, Nelly, man, did I get a lot of insight and the and the things my life actually got a little bit harder after I got saved. But I want to go back to the Sunday school ladies and um them did. them just being so kind and loving. I ended up telling them about my abortion and they just loved on me and they gave me grace. And I'm telling you the shame, the hatred, the self-blame, all the things that I had carried with me from that day of having that abortion fell off. It just fell off. Like miraculously fell off. And I I've carried shame about other things, but I I that that just fell off. Shame around the abortion just fell off. Um and ever since then I think you probably know I've been a little loud and proud to just tell people I have had an abortion and God healed me from that. God healed me. I went last year to that writer's advance in Kentucky and this memory will never leave my heart and mind. There was a 70ish year old woman there and we were all sharing some of our story and just writing some declarations and she shared with us that she was in the process of overcoming an abortion that she had and I just said me too and another woman said me too and what do you think the impact of that was I the well first of all solidarity like this feeling like we have we sometimes have this false feeling like we're all alone on an island and we are uniquely bad yes twisted whatever the word is that you tell yourself and then all of a sudden someone else says oh yeah me too and then another person says me too and then you start to look around and go oh I guess I'm not so all alone as I thought.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

And I guess I'm not so broken or as twisted or whatever as I thought.

SPEAKER_05 45:40

Yes. Yep. And I think that is exactly what happened right because one lady in the group had a son with bipolar that was out of control and um I don't remember the other women's challenges but they had challenges and we just all shared our challenges like just real life stuff. Right. And that's what real Christ followers do real Christ followers um are just genuine and real because we all have stuff that we have to overcome.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_05 46:06

We all have had some form of trauma or some horrific experience whether it's losing a loved one unexplainably whether it's domestic violence like what I grew up in you have a little bit of a similar story. Yeah it doesn't matter we all have something we all have something to overcome and so we all need God's grace and mercy and he is just you guys if you're a woman who's had an abortion or if you are a woman who's contemplating having an abortion I want to say that too God has grace and mercy for you and God has a plan for you and God has a plan for you if you're that woman who's already had an abortion and God has a plan for you if you are the woman contemplating having an abortion. And if you're that woman contemplating having an abortion I just want you to go find some wise counsel um and talk to someone about that because there's so many other options. There are people I know I've got I've I've had clients that are dying they're really not dying but desperate to get pregnant there's people that would love you know to adopt a baby and you guys you guys I have not thought about this until maybe right this moment my grandson is adopted yep yep and his mom has had multiple multiple kids and he was number three for her and by I think it was a miracle from God my daughter was having some challenges getting pregnant and I just think by God's grace this woman asked my daughter do you want do you want this child? And my daughter said yes that is a beautiful beautiful miracle. Right? Yeah and another story of redemption where he takes things and redeems things he takes and redeems what the enemy has stolen right and I think I I think I said this early on in the podcast so if it's a repeat bear with me but it's it's worth repeating um in 2003 I know I said this but my when my sister attempted suicide not successful thankfully the Lord told me he was going to restore what the locust had eaten and I was a super brand new Christian back then and didn't know what that meant but um he's been restoring literally what the what the locusts have eaten this whole time in my life right as I'm sitting here listening to my own story again for the umpteenth time I'm looking at even he's showing me new places where he's restored things and I would say my grandson was just another part of that restoration process and maybe really some restoration for my daughter too in her life with that. But um it was with in the let's go back to the Sunday school class for a minute it was in that Sunday school classroom where I got such love unconditional love no judgment and they just embraced me I'm pretty sure we all laughed and we all hugged and cried and um yeah the shackles fell off the chains fell off um right there in that moment and um Nathan I wanted you um I don't know I wanted your thoughts your input because I do know that sometimes men are in relationships with women um and if they're not married they don't have a lot of power right if a woman gets pregnant um an unplanned pregnancy happens and the woman wants an abortion and the male doesn't they don't have a lot of power um I don't know what are your thoughts about that like I don't think you've experienced or encountered that in your life but do you have any thoughts about that?

SPEAKER_00 49:36

Yeah I well you you had kind of brought this up before we started and I what I just thought about was I'd never looked at it from that perspective before I'd always looked at it from the perspective of a woman who's made the choice to have an abortion because you know for like that may that may be the best choice to make at the time I don't I don't know I'm not gonna judge that excuse me right but um I didn't and I I've thought often about the emotional impact that that can have on a woman because I from my perspective you know one of the things that women can do that men can't is they can uh bear children men can't do that.

SPEAKER_05 50:17

That's correct and we could go we could go a whole other direction.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

But but we'll not do that this right now.

SPEAKER_05 50:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Um but that's so so I I guess what I'm saying is I've I've always looked at it from that perspective because I could see how even if that were the right choice to make at the time with the knowledge and the dis and the resources you have available all that stuff I could see how as a woman's life progresses she she's gonna carry that with her or she might carry that with her. Right. And that might really hang around her neck and she might have a lot of shame and guilt about that.

SPEAKER_02 50:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

So that was the perspective that I'd looked at it before. But when you brought this up the idea that men don't really necessarily have a whole lot of say or power in this particular instance I didn't think about it until you brought it up but you're absolutely right that that same wound that a woman carries or a very similar one might also be hung around the neck of a man who maybe wasn't involved or didn't you know have the ability to advocate for a different course right in that particular instance. Yeah I didn't think about that but this is very powerful.

SPEAKER_05 51:31

Right and I just want to speak to the men that may be listening that have been in those circumstances. And I want you to know that God loves you and sees you and knows you and he he sees and knows whether you know you had limited power maybe you didn't even know that that was going to happen maybe you didn't even know there was a pregnancy until after after everything had happened. I mean it can there can be so many variations of the stories and people's experiences but I want you to know men that God loves you sees you knows you forgives you right for that and if you've had that experience guys I would just invite you again to go find wise counsel whether it's with a a a trauma therapist or a coach a pastor a leader a parent whoever it might be there's a lot of wise people out there to go find wise counsel to help you process that because that that can be a wound for men without a doubt right without a doubt I have had the privilege through one of my dear friends Angie when she went overseas to study she used to speak for a group that it wasn't a counseling group where women came to when they were pregnant but it was a a company a business or a nonprofit that trained the counselors for um who the women who counseled women who were contemplating abortion. So she asked me if I would go teach and I got the privilege to go teach like two or three times um to women who attended those trainings and um one of the leaders of that nonprofit company shared that she had had an abortion and I also shared that you know that I had had an abortion and I could speak from real life experience about what the the women need when they're sitting in the counseling room right yeah they don't need for you to solve problems for them they don't need for you to tell them what to do oh yeah right what happens Nathan if you go talk to somebody do you know if you go talk to somebody about a problem and they you know like if you came to talk to me and I don't think you've had this I don't think you've had this experience with me but what would happen if you came to talk to me about something really serious and I just simply said Nathan this is what I think you should do you should go do blah blah blah yeah you know what happens if if when if or when that happens well I think you know one thing is first and this is not the fault of really any human but when you opine about what someone else should do in that other person's life the thing that we often don't recognize is when we are rendering that opinion we're rendering it based on really really really incomplete information.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

100% we see one small perspective it by the way it doesn't make it right or wrong. It's just we see one set of information from one angle. And if that if we're looking at that from from one degree of that person's life there's 359 other degrees of that person's life that's really good that they're living and that we can't know. And so just offering that that hey you should do this it's based on incomplete information. And then it can make it more challenging for that person too because I mean let's say they do that. Let's say they do whatever the recommended course of action was well then whatever comes next you know those consequences aren't going to be born by the person rendering the opinion right they're born by the person living their own life you know so I think that that's it's and I'm not saying don't ever give you know advice certainly people come and specifically ask for advice but a lot of what you did in your former role as a trauma therapist and in your current role as an abundant life coach is to help people work through the problem set for themselves and then identify what outcome they want and then talk about the steps to go from where they are now to the outcome they'd like yep and helping them to identify the steps right to go from point A to point C or D, right? Right, because it's iterative.

SPEAKER_05 55:45

Yep. Yep yep I always tell people and I think Nathan you've heard me say this like I'm 61 years old and I'm a female right if you came to me and said Sherry what would you do with XYZ situation do you really want a 61 do you want to go do what a 61 year old female would do as an almost 40 year old male? You know what I never thought about that but the answer is probably not so oftentimes right I have young clients too I've got some clients in their 20s mid-early mid-20s and I'm like you're not gonna want to do what I would do right there's all this age gap and all the different life experiences and so it's important to um walk people through the options of the decisions that they could make so um I really enjoyed getting to teach those those um the women that came for those sessions to learn about how what's the wisest way right to counsel um women who were going to be counseling people who were contemplating abortion right because we want to do everything in love right those you got something to say I can say I was just gonna say set that heart posture in love.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

Yeah set that heart posture in love oh Nathan this is where you have to say um Nathan's Nathan's been having some conflict you guys and he's been having some conflict he sure he certainly has been yep yep about tears about tears yeah so this is coming up because you said heart posture of love yeah so you came in today and you were telling me you were telling me and you weren't so happy with me why were you not so happy with me today yeah so this is I'll tell you the story today but this also goes back to a couple months back so it's kind of a repeat of the same event couple months back I'm watching and it dudes listen to this I just okay I'm watching you guys I'm watching Rambo okay like you know that movie when you just need to like watch something that's about man stuff and shooting stuff and blowing stuff up and so I'm I'm stoked. I love Rambo I've probably seen it I don't know 30 40 50 times over the years um but this is a couple months back and I'm watching Rambo this is the first time I've watched it uh post-therapy by the way and I'm I'm I'm watching Rambo and I'm like all stoked it's a great movie and then you know in that scene toward the end when he's in the sheriff's office he's kind of taken over he's got that six and he's just laying waste and then Troutman comes in and he's talking to Rambo he's trying to talk Rambo down and then Rambo he he is explaining like hey I these people don't get it man like I'm back in the world and they don't understand and and this guy died and that guy died and all this stuff happened and I'm listening to that and I kid you not guys I start crying and I don't mean I don't mean tears are sort of gravity fed falling down my cheek.

SPEAKER_01 59:01

I mean there's some pressure behind them and I I'm so glad I was by myself at that point.

SPEAKER_00 59:08

But I also kind of had this moment while I'm crying that I'm like dude what is wrong with you this is a man movie like we're supposed to get all fired up you know go chop some wood afterwards do man stuff and here I am crying and this morning as I was getting ready I actually watched uh Sylvester Stallone uh do a little bit of a breakdown on Rambo and they showed that scene and I'm crying again and so you know just I think he might have been cussing me at that point. I probably was and if you guys haven't heard me say it before I'm gonna say it now I went to therapy and I caught feelings and I said Nathan that is something I will proudly own that I gave to you is helping you have emotions but what did you tell me you're just underneath um oh yeah underneath the emotions yeah what did you say this morning I said that I I think that whether I had to do it or not I what I did do was I think I built like a big layer of concrete and rebar you know over my emotions and then Sherry chiseled away at the freaking concrete and she removed all the rebar and now there's just this soft warm pool of love and feelings there and it's so now I cry at Rambo.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:32

And Top Gun by the way I cry at Top Gun not just the part where Goose dies either but other parts so there's that how you guys know I wish this is only this is one of the only times I wish we were on camera because I wish you guys could have seen his face as he was telling you that story he looked like he was in a lot of pain yeah there was some pain there oh and I wasn't being a very good spiritual mama because I was laughing you sure were it lightens the it always lightens the atmosphere yes right we do have to laugh yep which is one of the reasons why I wanted you to tell that story because you guys laughter is healing laughter is a weapon in the spiritual realm.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:26

It really really is when you can laugh at some of the things that come your way or some of the little antics the enemy tries to do to bring you down laughter is such a weapon and it's important to integrate that right when you're dealing with heavy stuff and all the things like this conversation today has been pretty heavy. Yes right pretty heavy talking about domestic violence and having amnesia as a child and all the the not so healthy choices I made growing up but it all culminated in my early you know my mid-twenties with me finding Jesus my daughter coming to know the Lord um and finding his grace and mercy around this this tragic event of having an abortion and taking a life and I I I don't use it jokingly but when I am with a client whether when I was a trauma therapist or even now as an abundant life coach people people will tell me some things that they carry shame around and I'm like well I committed murder right um and that's a harsh way to say it but it is it is the truth um as I've as I've gotten older and I've literally seen video of what an abortion is it's it's just very disheartening very sad. Yeah and I know you know it breaks God's heart but God still has that grace and mercy right he always has grace and mercy regardless of of the choices that we've made I fully believe my mom's in heaven my dad's in heaven my sister's in heaven and they've all made some some hard choices um and I just believe he's a God of grace and mercy. So um restoration started for sure restoration started in that Sunday school classroom with that amazing group of women who just gave me poured out their grace and God's love over me. And I will never ever forget those women. When we left South Carolina we moved overseas to Italy for four years and the church gave us a big send off and I just will never forget those women they really played a pivotal role in my life by helping me to um forgive myself for having an abortion.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

And I think about I think that speaks about something that we can do in our own lives the incredible power that we have with love and non-judgment. Now no one's perfect and we're not gonna be able to do that all the time.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:01

But if you're presented with an opportunity and you could go one of two ways you could go the way of judgment and anger and you should have and you've got the other option of being loving unconditionally and non-judgmental right it shows us the power that we have to alter the course of someone's life and we may not know it.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:25

Right right yeah just like in the Sunday school classroom right yeah and Nathan you you do that so well you do love so well you do love so well. I I see it all the time when we're interacting even as we were preparing for this podcast you were like Sherry we can stop the podcast if we need to we can not publish the podcast if we need to we can pause if we need to and I'm like I just love that he was giving me all the options to if I needed to be safe if I didn't feel safe in the process right you're giving me all the options and I hear stories all the time of you at work and how you're interacting with others and how you're modeling love and how you model love to your mom and um and the person you're dating and all the things yeah I hear about how you model love. And that is so important loving you guys is the most powerful thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

It is not about agreeing we do not have to agree that is a really interesting point.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:27

So you can disagree and still love somebody believe it I can you believe it yes I can you guys that's where our world has gotten a little broken right and I absolutely believe it's a ploy of the enemy to cause um unit disunity in families um to break families apart and sadly I've experienced that in my family another story for another day um I have friends that have experienced that in their family the enemy we're gonna go back again you guys you've probably heard This before the enemy John 1010. He's out to steal, kill, and destroy. And he's going to steal, kill, and destroy however he can, whether it's through abortion, whether it's through domestic violence, alcoholism, pornography, um drugs, you name it, whether, and don't let me leave out polit, you know, politicians in the political realm. He's definitely out to steal, kill, and destroy in that realm too. He used COVID to steal, kill, and destroy. Lots of things going on on the earth today. And so this is where I just want to encourage you. If you don't know the Lord, I would just highly encourage you to read the book of John and the Bible. Find a Bible.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:42

I was so hoping that that's what you were gonna say. I was so hoping that's what you were gonna say. Because that's exactly what you asked me to do or encourage me to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

And I remember thinking, yeah, I mean, okay, I'll do this. I don't know what I mean, you know, I didn't get the the equation wasn't adding up to me. I had read the Bible before, as you know, I was raised Roman Catholic, and that's kind of blood in, blood out. Um, but I read it and I just had a different mindset this time, and I think the mindset was really just open, open mind, open heart, and curious.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:17

Curious.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:19

And Nathan, thanks for saying the word curious because as a former trauma therapist, now an abundant life coach, curiosity, right? Curiosity, you guys. You have to engage people in the spirit and heart posture of love and curiosity, right? Because when you are curious, that doesn't make people want to be on the offense or on the defense. Right. On the defense is what I want to say. Um, it doesn't make people become defensive, it makes people think, and then you can have a dialogue back and forth, and that's what Nathan and I did um along the way in our therapeutic relationship, um, and having conversations about Jesus and conversations about the Bible. I just practice a lot of curiosity.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:03

And one thing I would just say is there's a, and I'm I know people absolutely know this, but I do think it's worth saying that there is a palpable difference between the heart posture of curiosity and a heart posture of interrogation.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:19

You interrogate someone who you think has committed a crime so that you can figure out what that crime is and then nail them for it.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:26

And nail them as a good yeah, like accuse them, like I'm pointing my finger right now. That's what, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:31

Yes, yeah, and curiosity is not any of that. Curiosity that is that is out of a desire, a genuine earnest desire simply to learn.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:40

Right, right. Yep, yep. And so maybe we'll tell more of that story with Nathan in the book of John in the next in the next podcast. Um I think we're gonna wind down, wind this one down. And um, I want you guys to please listen to the next one because there's even a bigger redemption story in the next podcast, and that's where I'm gonna talk about um how Nathan became my Isaac. Right? Yeah, and I'm gonna just leave you hanging with that when you're like Isaac. I thought his name was Nathan. His name is Nathan, his name is Nathan, his name is Nathan. Sometimes people call him Nate. I started out with Nate.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

Yes, you did.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:23

And then we went to Nathan. Um, that's another story. Um, but yeah, I hope you come and tune in for the next um podcast because that's where we're gonna talk about he how he became my Isaac and what that means. And you guys, it is it's a mind-blowing example of the level of redemption that God wants to do in your life, in your life, because I'm not anyone special. Nathan's not anyone special. We're all special to God in our own ways, but um what I'm trying to say um is that God has the same desire to bring restoration to everyone's life, not just our lives. He has the same desire to bring restoration to everyone's life because the enemy has come to steal, kill, and destroy in everybody's life, not just ours, right? Um, yeah, so I hope you guys tune in. So, Nathan, what is something that we've we've been having this habit at the end of the podcast, right? Um, to say things that we're grateful for. What are you grateful for today?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:26

Well, I got two things. I'm gonna say one of them, I'll say the second one next time. But the one I'll say this time is I got to help my mom out with some some stuff around uh her house yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:40

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:40

And I am just really grateful that I got the opportunity to do that. You know, I as a son, I I I think about my mom often. I love her very much. I always want to help her in any way that I can. And this wasn't anything big, it was small stuff, but the ability to be able to do that, you know, when she's done so much for me. Um I'm just really grateful that I had the opportunity to help her out in a small way and you know, spend some time with her, hang out, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:10

Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:13

How about you?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:14

And I'm sure she was so appreciative.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:16

She is, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:16

Yeah, I am grateful. I I'm grateful for the opportunity to do this podcast with you. Um, yeah, and I'm grateful for all the things that you brought to my life.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:29

Things, Nathan, things that I never could have imagined because I'm I'm I'm sighing deeply, guys, because that very much goes both ways.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:46

I love that. But I tell him I tell him all the time, you guys. The Lord in 2007, I got two prophecies um that I was gonna speak, teach, write a book, all the things. And I was just I kind of laughed when I got those prophecies, like I'm not an author. And yeah, here I am in the middle of trying to write my autobiography. And here I am, sort of, sort of preaching and teaching doing a podcast. And I told Nathan, nowhere along the way did God say there was gonna be a Nathan in the picture.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:20

Nowhere along the way.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:22

So, you guys, if you've ever gotten a word from the Lord, which I'm sure many of you have, maybe some of you haven't, but if you haven't, I want you to know he has a word for you. He has a blueprint for you. Nathan and I talk all the time about our blueprints. And God talks to us all the time about our blueprints and about our blueprints converging the way that they have converged. But um I just God never told me that there would be a Nathan in the picture. I just assumed it was just gonna be me writing a book, me maybe speaking and teaching and sharing my testimony, whatever that looked like. And then here comes this guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:59

This dude?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:00

This dude. This dude who is was all the things client. And um, yeah, you guys know a little bit of that story, but you're you will hear some more of that in the next one too. But yeah, he never told me about a Nathan. And I I think I had a little bit of uh revelation that had the Lord told me about a Nathan, I would have sabotaged it, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:22

So it was a secret, Nathan.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:26

It might have been a secret, Nathan, but you know, Nathan, you're you're did you know you're a dude?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:31

I did know I'm a dude. And then so thankful to be a dude.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:35

I'm happy you're a dude too, but guess what? What wish you guys could have seen that face. Oh, Nathan. Yes, me and dudes, yeah, and you guys have heard. I've never said dude in my entire life, and here I am at 61 saying dude, but Nathan, yes, me and dudes have not always gotten along well.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:59

Yeah. For for good reasons.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:02

For good reasons, yeah. So, you guys, as you can hear, and as I know you know that God sent me this special dude. A really special dude, because I don't know, I keep telling him all the time he's an anomaly, because I don't know any more dudes um that God could have used, like he used Nathan. So I'm thankful for um God surprising me with a Nathan, and I'm thankful for the opportunity to do this podcast for us to share the challenging life experiences and just the life experiences in general that we've been through because I just really want to normalize whatever it is, whatever mountain that is standing in front of you. And I want to give you the tools, and Nathan wants to give you the tools to speak to that mountain. God says for us to speak to the mountain and it will crumble. And um, yeah, I just want to encourage you that that is possible. I uh, you know, all of the mountains that I talked about today with domestic violence and abortion and divorces and all the things, God has brought so much healing to me, so much healing, and God's brought a lot of healing to Nathan as well. So we're gonna end, we're gonna end there. Good place?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:14

Yeah, great place. We'll pick it up again next time. And then lastly, guys, as always, we want to thank you. You've devoted some time to this. Time is our most valuable resource.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:25

We can't buy more of it, make more of it. We just have what we have, and you've chosen to spend a little bit of yours with us.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:31

So thank you again for joining us on Divine and Most Unlikely, and we hope you'll join us again soon.