Episode 10 - Buddy

We have a special guest cohost this week!

In 2012, 20th Century Fox executive Gavin Smith vanished after leaving a friend's home in Oak Park. A devoted father of three, Gavin was the kind of man who always showed up—until one morning he didn't.

As investigators searched for answers, years passed with no sign of the missing father. Then, in a remote stretch of California desert, an ordinary hike took an extraordinary turn when a loyal Labrador named Buddy refused to walk away.

What happened next would help unravel a mystery that had haunted a family for more than two years.

Join Paula, and her "buddy" Monica, as they tell the story of the dog who helped bring a missing man home.

And always remember... #krazyforkeith

Sources

Dateline NBC – "Dark Valley"

Los Angeles Times

• Coverage of Gavin Smith's disappearance
• Discovery of Gavin's remains
• Arrest, trial, and sentencing of John Creech

NBC Los Angeles

• Reporting by Eric Leonard
• Coverage of the discovery of Gavin's remains and subsequent investigation

ABC7 Los Angeles (KABC)

• Reporting on the recovery of Gavin Smith's remains
• Investigation updates and arrest coverage

People Magazine

• Case overview and trial coverage

Variety

• Reporting on Gavin Smith's disappearance and his career with 20th Century Fox

Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department

• Missing person investigation
• Statements regarding the discovery of Gavin's remains
• Arrest information

Trial Testimony and Court Proceedings

• Chandrika (Chandy) Cade
• Stan McQuay
• Jorge Valle
• Detective Ty Labbe
• Detective John O'Brien

Additional reporting and background materials regarding Gavin Smith's disappearance, recovery, investigation, and prosecution.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

And then I couldn't even find him again. Wow, that's unbelievable. Yeah. Hey, I have something in her mouth. Oh man, I'm it's in your mouth. Come here. Piper, no, leave it, leave it alone. Oh my god, it's a condom. Oh my god. Piper, get away from it! What do I do? What do I do? Get it out of her mouth. I don't want to touch it. Here, use a poop bag. Oh, gross, gross, gross. That might be the worst thing she's ever picked up. Um, Monica, I think Piper has Oh no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Sometimes animals find what we wish they wouldn't. And sometimes they find what leads to answers. This is Dog Days of Murder, where your love of animals meets your fascination with true crime. Welcome to episode 10. As you all know, I'm Paula, and this is Ayn. Today I want to introduce our special co-host, Monica. Hello. And Piper.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

So, Monica, have you been listening? Of course I've been listening. What do you think? I think you're doing a fantastic job. Oh, thank you. What do you think of the stories?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

I think the stories are amazing. This is something we've talked about for years and you've put it into action, and it's been such a great ride so far.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Oh man. Well, it's really, really, really nice to have you here. And I mean that sincerely. Um, it's good to be here. I'm so glad. So I know I've mentioned uh in episode one that Monica and I have been friends and we were neighbors for years and walked our dogs every day, always talking about what we were watching. And one day we were talking about this particular Dateline episode. It's Dark Valley from Dateline, hosted by Keith Morrison. Our favorite. Hashtag crazy for Keith.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Crazy for Keith.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

And so we're walking around that day. We were talking about this episode, and we just kind of thought this would be a great podcast. The idea was born. The idea was born. It never faded. Here we are at episode 10, the end of the first season of Dog Days of Murder. That's amazing. It is amazing. So listen, at the end of this episode, I'm going to tell you more about what's in store for Dog Days of Murder. So keep listening. So let's get to it. Today's episode is called Buddy. This case happened right here in our area, and we have a connection that we didn't even realize we had. First, a quick note to the listeners. This podcast covers real crimes involving real people and may include themes of violence or loss. Listener discretion is advised.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

It may also include having to carry water and a collapsible bowl, running out of poop bags, and checking for ticks after a hike. You have been warned.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

The California High Desert has a personality all its own. Joshua trees dot the landscape like silent sentinels. Scrub brush stretches toward the horizon beneath the endless blue sky. During the day, the sun bakes the earth. But as evening approaches, the desert softens. Shadows grow long. Coyotes begin to call in the distance. And the sunset seemed to stretch on forever. For a man walking his dog, it was familiar territory. On October 26, 2014, they set out on what should have been an ordinary hike. They'd only been walking a few minutes when the dog stopped. Something in the brush had caught his attention. The man called out to him, Buddy, stop. The dog didn't move. His name was Gavin Smith. At six foot six, with blonde highlighted hair and an easy smile, Gavin was hard to miss. Friends described him as charismatic, outgoing, and larger than life. Long before he became a Hollywood executive, Gavin had made a name for himself on the basketball court. As a player at UCLA, he was a member of legendary coach John Wooden's final national championship team. It was the end of an era in college basketball, and Gavin had been part of it. After college, his path took several unexpected turns. He worked as a stuntman before eventually building a successful career in the entertainment industry. By 2012, he had spent nearly 18 years working for 20th Century Fox as a film distribution executive. He was respected by his colleagues, known through the industry, and proud of the life he had built. More than anything, Gavin was a family man. He and his wife Lisa had three sons together, and despite the challenges that would later emerge, the people closest to him never doubted how much he loved his boys. It was a devotion that would become painfully important in the days to come.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Years earlier, while working as a stunt man, Gavin suffered a devastating injury on the television series Remington Steel. During a stunt gone wrong, he fell from a building and broke his back. The physical injuries eventually healed, but the pain never completely disappeared. According to Lisa, doctors initially prescribed Percocet to help manage the pain. When that stopped working, Gavin was prescribed oxycotin. Over time, he became addicted to it. Determined to regain control of his life, Gavin entered a Southern California rehabilitation program called the Matrix Program. The treatment helped Gavin and he got sober. While he was there, he met a woman named Shandrika Cade. Most people knew her as Shandy. What began as a friendship eventually became an affair. Over time, however, the relationship faded and the two went their separate ways. By 2012, Gavin and Lisa's marriage was under enormous strain. Though they remained deeply connected through their three sons, the couple had separated. At the same time, Shandy's own marriage was unraveling. She was married to a convicted drug dealer named John Creech. Although the couple was estranged, they were still legally married, and Shandy was still living in the family home. Meanwhile, Gavin was dealing with problems of his own. There were financial pressures at home, as well as the cracks in the relationship. Lisa would later describe the family situation bluntly. We were in a horrible position financially. Mortgage payments had fallen behind. Gavin had withdrawn money from retirement accounts to keep the family afloat. Everything would come to a head on the night of May 1st, 2012.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

By the spring of 2012, Gavin Smith was no longer living at the family home in West Hills. Instead, he'd been staying with a friend in Oak Park, right around the corner from us. The quiet community nestled among the rolling hills of eastern Ventura County. On the evening of May 1st, Gavin spent time at the house before leaving in his black Mercedes. According to the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, he was last seen between 9 and 10 p.m. Later reporting would place his departure at approximately 9.35. At the time, no one had any reason to believe those would be the last confirmed moments anyone would see him alive. After leaving Oak Park, Gavin drove east toward Chatsworth. There he planned to meet Chandrika Cade. The two eventually met near the top of Fallbrook Avenue, not far from Chandy's home. The two spent about an hour together inside Gavin's Mercedes. They talked and at times they kissed. It wasn't the first time they had met, but this meeting would be different from all the others. Without either of them realizing it, someone else was watching. John Creech had become increasingly suspicious of his estranged wife's relationship with Gavin. What they didn't know at the time was that he had been tracking their movements. Just after midnight, Creech approached the Mercedes. What happened next would leave investigators searching for answers for more than two years. When the violence finally ended, Gavin Smith was gone.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

The next morning, Gavin Smith failed to do something that everyone in his life knew he would do. He didn't pick up his son. Lisa put it simply, nothing would keep him from picking up his kid ever. At first, she hoped there was a reasonable explanation. Maybe he had lost track of time. Maybe he'd stayed somewhere unexpectedly. Maybe there was a misunderstanding. But as the hours passed, those explanations became harder to believe. Lisa called Gavin's office at 20th Century Fox. Perhaps he'd gone straight to work. Instead, she learned something that immediately deepened her concern. In 18 years, Gavin Smith had never failed to show up for work. Not once. On May 2nd, 2012, he wasn't there. As concern turned to alarm, family members began searching for answers. Calls went unanswered. No one had seen him. No one had heard from him. The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department soon launched a missing person investigation. Detectives started with the obvious questions. Had Gavin left voluntarily? Had he suffered a medical emergency? Had he relapsed? As they searched for answers, investigators began examining every aspect of Gavin's life. Detective John O'Brien would later describe what they found. His phone was missing, there was no use of it. We checked his bank accounts from the time that he was missing. We checked his medical insurance to see if he had checked himself into a hospital. There was never any activity. Then he added, he completely dropped off the face of the earth. Meanwhile, Gavin's family refused to give up. They printed flyers, appeared on television, used social media, offered a reward. Friends, co-workers, and loved ones searched for any sign of the missing father of three. But the days became weeks, the weeks became months, and Gavin Smith remained missing.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

As the months passed, detectives continued pulling at every thread they could find. One of the most important led back to Chandy and John Creech. Investigators began examining cell phone records, looking for anything that might explain what happened after Gavin disappeared. What they found immediately caught their attention. Detective John O'Brien later explained, John Creech's phone and Gavin Smith's phone paralleled each other, sometimes hitting off the exact same towers or parallel towers. For investigators, it was another indication that Creech might know more about Gavin's disappearance than he was admitting. As detectives dug deeper into Chandy's circle, he interviewed her father. Detective Ty LeBay later recalled that the conversation took an emotional turn. The man began to cry. She saw everything, he told investigators, referring to his daughter Chandy. But the conversation didn't end there. Chandy's father also pointed detectives toward another person, Rena Lim, the caretaker of Chandy's grandmother. According to LeBay, Chandy's father told investigators, I think Rena knows where the car is. That statement gave detectives a new direction. As they investigated further, they learned that John Creech had asked Lim to rent a storage unit in Simi Valley. Why Creech wanted the unit wasn't immediately clear. But detectives knew they needed to see what was inside. When they finally gained access and opened the door, they found exactly what they had been searching for. Sitting inside was Gavin Smith's Black Mercedes. It was the first major break in the case. Labay later admitted he was so excited he kissed his partner on the cheek. That's a true story, he said. But the excitement quickly gave way to something far more sobering. As detectives moved closer to the vehicle, they realized they weren't simply looking at a missing man's car. In their opinion, they were looking at the crime scene. The passenger seat was covered in blood. Detective John O'Brien described one detail investigators never forgot. It was very eerie, he said. You looked at the blood and you could see a handmark of Gavin Smith as he died in that seat. Investigators also noticed that the Mercedes license plate had been removed. Not entirely, though. One screw had been left behind. When detectives tested it, they recovered touch DNA belonging to John Creech. The discovery changed the direction of the investigation. Detectives now had a vehicle. They had blood evidence. They had phone records. And they had a growing list of questions surrounding John Creech. But as O'Brien put it, one thing we didn't have was Gavin Smith.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

While detectives continued searching for Gavin Smith, life went on. More than two years passed. Then on October 26, 2014, a man and his dog headed into the high desert north of Los Angeles. The man was Rocky Ramos. The dog was a chocolate labrador named Buddy. Rocky enjoyed exploring the rugged terrain near the Angeles National Forest. It was the kind of place where people sometimes dumped unwanted furniture, old televisions, and other debris. Buddy was a regular hiking companion and rarely left Rocky's side. He'd be mad if I didn't take him, he said. That morning, they had been only walking for a few minutes when Buddy suddenly stopped. Rocky called out to him. Buddy, stop. Buddy wouldn't move. Instead, he stood staring into a bush. Curious, Rocky walked over to see what had caught his dog's attention. What he found made his stomach drop. Partially hidden in the brush was a human skull. Years later, Rocky still remembered the shock. You know, I was just totally amazed. I was without words. I didn't know what to do. Authorities quickly responded to the scene. As investigators researched the surrounding area, they made another discovery. Nearby was a shallow grave. Detective Ty LeBay said the clothing was still intact, and the body had been wrapped in a blanket. A blanket that had once been kept in the trunk of Gavin Smith's Mercedes. After more than two years of questions, investigators finally had the answer to the one question they had been unable to solve. They had found Gavin Smith. His remains were located in a remote area between Palmdale and Acton, adjacent to the Angeles National Forest, roughly three-quarters of a mile south of Mount Emma Road and 47th Street East. For Gavin's family, the discovery ended one agonizing chapter, but another painful one was waiting. After more than two years of wondering where Gavin was, they now had to confront a different question. For the investigators, the discovery marked the beginning of a new phase of the case. The mystery of where Gavin Smith was had finally been solved. Now they needed to prove what had happened to him.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

For more than two years, investigators had been searching for Gavin Smith. Now they finally had the opportunity to learn how he died. The Los Angeles County Coroner's office examined the remains and reached a conclusion. Gavin Smith had died from blunt force trauma to the face and skull. Findings painted a picture of extraordinary violence. Investigators determined that the injuries were not the result of a single blow. Fractures to Gavin's arms were also consistent with defensive injuries, suggesting he had tried to protect himself during the attack. Detective John O'Brien described the damage this way: it was repeated hitting in order to do that much damage, very violent. The injuries also helped explain the blood evidence detectives had found inside Gavin's Mercedes. For years, investigators had suspected the vehicle was the primary crime scene. Now, the physical evidence was beginning to support that theory. It strengthened the case that had been building since the day they opened the storage unit in Simi Valley, and it brought them one step closer to the man they believed was responsible. Before investigators could understand what happened on Fallbrook Avenue that night, they needed to understand how Gavin and Chandy had found their way back into each other's lives after years apart.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

According to investigators, the affair had largely ended nearly two years before Gavin vanished. The two had gone their separate ways. For a time, there was no contact between them at all. Then something changed. Communication resumed. Investigators learned that the two first reconnected through email. The emails became phone calls. The phone calls became plans. Eventually, they agreed to meet in person. That meeting would take place on the night of May 1st, 2012, on a quiet stretch of road near the top of Fallbrook Avenue, the same meeting that would ultimately place Gavin Smith directly in John Creech's path. So exactly what happened after Gavin and Chandy met on Fallbrook Avenue. Much of what investigators ultimately learned came from testimony given under oath. According to Chandy, she and Gavin spent about an hour together inside the Mercedes. They talked, and at times they kissed. Then just after midnight, everything changed. John Creech appeared beside the vehicle. Somehow Creech had tracked them down. What happened next unfolded quickly. Creech suddenly attacked Gavin. Chandy watched her husband repeatedly strike him. She could see that Creech and had Gavin pinned down as he continued punching him in the face. Terrified, Chandy screamed for help. She begged him to stop. At one point, she said Creech turned toward her and delivered a warning she'd never forgot. You're next. Fearing for her own life, Chandy ran. She returned home and armed herself with a knife. Not long afterward, Creech arrived at the house. According to Chandy, he was covered in blood. She said Creech told her he wasn't going to hurt her. Instead, he asked for a ride back to where Gavin's Mercedes had been parked. Creech told her he was going to take Gavin to the hospital, but investigators would later conclude that by then it was too late. By the time the attack was over, Gavin Smith had suffered catastrophic injuries. He was dead.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Much of it came from witness testimony. And much of it centered around two men, Stan McQuay and Jorge Vaillie. Phone records show that in the hours after Gavin was attacked, John Creech repeatedly contacted Vaille, over and over again. As investigators reconstructed the timeline, they concluded that Creech was looking for help. Meanwhile, Creech arrived at the home of his friend Stan McQuay. According to McWay, Creech was covered in blood. Creech claimed he had been in a fight, but McQuay said that there was something else. He saw what appeared to be a body wrapped in a sheet. At that point, Gavin Smith's Mercedes had become far more than a vehicle. It contained evidence. And according to testimony, it also contained Gavin. The Mercedes was brought to McQuay's garage and it stayed there. Not for hours but for days. For several days. Gavin's body remained inside the vehicle while Creech worked to figure out his next move. He desperately enlisted the help of others. Bayer became involved alongside McQuay. As the days passed, the focus shifted from what had happened on Fallbrook Avenue to how to make it disappear. Witnesses described efforts to move evidence, to move the car, to move Gavin's body, and to distance Creech from all of it. At one point, investigators learned that Creech and Cade's clothing that was connected to the crime had been burned. Mercedes was eventually removed from McQuay's garage. Later, it would surface inside a storage unit rented by Arena Lim at Creech's request. For more than two years, the people involved remained silent. Gavin's family continued searching. Investigators continued digging. And the truth remained buried in both the high desert and the memories of people who knew what had happened. But secrets have a way of unraveling. As detectives gathered phone records, forensic evidence, and witness statements, the story began to come into focus. And in January of 2015, investigators finally had enough. John Creech was arrested for the murder of Gavin Smith.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

John Creech's arrest was a major breakthrough, but an arrest is not a conviction. Prosecutors still had to prove what happened on the night of May 1st, 2012. That they turned to the people who had been closest to the events. Over time, several key witnesses agreed to cooperate with investigators. Among them were Shandy Cade, Stan McQuay, and Jorge Valle. Each would eventually receive immunity in exchange for their truthful testimony. Together, their accounts helped fill in many of the gaps that investigators had spent years trying to understand. Jurors heard testimony about the attack on Fallbrook Avenue. They heard about the days that followed. They heard about Gavin's Mercedes sitting in McQuay's garage with Gavin's body still inside. And they heard about the efforts to move evidence and conceal the crime. Chandy took the witness stand and described the attack she said she witnessed. McQuay described what he saw when Creech arrived covered in blood. Other witnesses helped prosecutors establish a timeline that stretched from the attack itself to the eventual disposal of Gavin's body and the concealment of the Mercedes. The physical evidence supported many of those accounts. The blood inside Gavin's vehicle, the touch DNA recovered from the remaining license plate screw, the injuries documented by the coroner, and the location where Buddy ultimately led investigators to Gavin's remains. Piece by piece, prosecutors assembled a case they believed showed not only that Gavin Smith had been killed, but that John Creech was responsible. To the defense, however, offered a different version of events. And the trial was far from over.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

As the trial continued, jurors were asked to consider two very different versions of what had happened on Falbrook Avenue. Prosecutors argued that John Creech had tracked down Gavin Smith, attacked him, and then spent days covering up the crime. The defense painted a different picture. Creech took the stand in his own defense. According to his testimony, the encounter began as a confrontation. But he claimed Gavin attacked him first. Creech told jurors the two men fought. He described it as a violent struggle that spiraled out of control. The prosecutors pointed to the physical evidence. They pointed to Gavin's injuries. They pointed to the blood inside the Mercedes. And they pointed to the testimony of the witnesses who described what happened afterward. The prosecution argued that the evidence simply did not support Creech's version of events. One of the most important witnesses remained. From the witness stand, she described seeing Creech repeatedly strike Gavin while he was pinned down. He repeatedly punched him in the face, she said. Her testimony was supported by the injuries documented by the coroner. Fractures to Gavin's face, fractures to his skull, fractures to his arms that investigators believed were consistent with defensive wounds. Prosecutors argued that the physical evidence, witness testimony, and Creech's own actions after the attack told a very different story than the one he described from the witness stand. By the time both sides rested, the jury had heard testimony from witnesses, detectives, forensic experts, and John Creech himself. Now it was their turn to decide what had happened on that dark stretch of road in Chatsworth, and whether John Creech would be held responsible for Gavin Smith's death.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

After years of unanswered questions, months of testimony, and weeks of trial, the case was finally in the jury's hands. The jurors deliberated for less than a day. On March 27, 2018, they returned with a verdict. John Creech was found guilty of voluntary manslaughter. He was also convicted of mayhem. For Gavin's family, the verdict brought a measure of relief. But it was not the first-degree murder conviction they had hoped for. Creech would ultimately be sentenced to 11 years in state prison. For Lisa Smith, the outcome was difficult to accept. After years of searching for Gavin, years of waiting for answers, and years of living with uncertainty, the sentence felt inadequate. The frustration only deepened when she learned that several key witnesses had received immunity in exchange for their testimony. Candy Cade, Stan McQuay, and Jorge Valle. But without their testimony, prosecutors may never have been able to reconstruct what happened. For Lisa, the agreements came at a cost. It seems to me that everybody got deals and everybody got off, she said. And that Gavin was a victim long after he was murdered, and so are we. For the Smith family, the trial may have ended, but the grief had not. And the legal troubles surrounding John Creech were not over either. Around the same time, federal prosecutors in Detroit were pursuing an entirely different case, a drug trafficking investigation. In June of 2019, Creech was convicted of conspiracy to distribute a controlled substance. He was sentenced to an additional 10 years and 10 months in federal prison to be served concurrently with his state sentence. For investigators, the case that began with a missing father from Oak Park had finally reached its conclusion. For Gavin's family, there would never be a true conclusion. Only the difficult task of learning how to live with what happened.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

They were just doing what they had always done: a man and his dog exploring familiar ground. But sometimes the smallest decisions change everything. A turn down a trail, a dog stopping at a bush, a moment that would have been easy to miss. For more than two years, Gavin's family had lived with questions. Where was he? Was he alive? Would they ever find him? Buddy couldn't answer all of those questions, but he answered one. And that answer changed everything. It allowed investigators to recover Gavin's remains. It allowed prosecutors to strengthen their case. And it allowed a family to finally bring their husband, father, brother, and friend home. There is something fitting about the way this story ends. Not in a courtroom, not in a police station, but in the desert, among the scrub brush and Joshua trees. In a landscape where distances seem endless and secrets can remain hidden for years. At noon, the desert can feel harsh and unforgiving. At sunset, it becomes something else entirely. The same Joshua trees that look twisted and lonely in the bright daylight stand silhouetted against a sky painted in gold and orange. Beautiful, quiet, almost peaceful. And maybe that's the lesson Buddy leaves us with. Not every act of heroism looks heroic in the moment. Sometimes it's as simple as a dog refusing to walk away. Sometimes it's a nose pointed towards something everyone else missed. And sometimes that's enough to bring someone home.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Oh, we did it. We sure did. And I have to give a shout out to Buddy because he really was the unsung hero. The unsung hero of this case. And all he wanted to do was go for a walk. And he literally found the biggest bone he could. He did. What a good dog. We shouldn't yell at ours for pulling stuff out of the bushes.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Well, no, I will continue to yell at mine about pulling stuff out of the bushes, especially the condom story. By the way, you guys, to the listeners, I will be sharing the actual condom story because yes, it's a true story. As everything else that Ayn has found in these episodes since episode one, they're all true stories. So if you want to hear the condom story, I'm going to be putting it on my Instagram. So follow us there.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

And if you haven't yet, please rate and review the show and add any insights you have. All the feedback is so appreciated. Love it.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Love it. So, and just remember that this concludes season one. I cannot believe that season one is over. Here we are, episode 10, season one. So Ayn and I will be taking off a few weeks. We're going to do some more research and some writing and we're going to bring more stories in a couple of weeks. But keep looking, keep coming back because you never know. A bonus episode might appear in the feed. And just I just wanted to let you know, I actually reached out to Rocky Ramos to see if he wanted to talk about Buddy, but I never heard back.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Aw. Well, we're going to just celebrate Buddy because he was the solver of this case.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

Just a good boy.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Just a good boy. He should get an extra bone.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

He should. I bet he did.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

The right kind.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

The right kind of bone.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

And also, we didn't realize until later that we, Monica and I actually have a personal connection to this story. Our friend Robert, friend of the podcast, actually worked with Gavin. And we reached out a couple weeks ago and asked him if he knew Gavin. And he said, absolutely he did. So he just sent me a quote. I'm going to read it. Robert says of Gavin, Gavin was just one of those guys that would walk into a room and people would notice. Tall, tan, million-dollar smile, look like an actor. Charming and nice as well. When you'd be talking with him, he was present, which isn't always the case with the above traits. That was a really nice thing to say. It was. Yeah, he had really, really lovely things to say. So that was from our friend Robert. Hi Robert. Hi, Robert. So thank you again for joining us for this episode. And I'm so happy that Monica and Piper decided to come and co-host. We're really glad that they're here. We'll be back. Okay, good. I'm glad. I was just gonna say, I hope you guys can join us again in the future. So Dog Days of Murder is an Angry Hamster production, hosted and produced by me, Paula Quintana, and Ayn. Once again, thank you to our special hosts, co-hosts, Monica and Piper. Dog Days of Murder is a listener-supported podcast. After you leave a rating, five stars, and a review, check out the Buy Me a Coffee. Ayn loves a pup cup. Sources for this episode and links to our email, Instagram, and Buy Me a Coffee are in the show notes. Seriously, you guys, we'd love to hear from you. Do you listen with your dog? Let us know. Again, thank you for your support and encouragement. Like I said before, there would be no show without you, the listeners. We can't wait to be back here with you. Until then, girls, grab your leashes. Okay, we survived that. You know what I'm thinking? What? Martini, bottle of wine? Let's go.