Ep. 2 | Financing: The Ultimate Deal-breaker | Case Closed: From Consult to Crown

In Episode 2 of Case Closed: From Consult to Crown, Ryan Pritchard and AJ Davino tackle one of the most misunderstood and underutilized systems in implant dentistry: financing. From real-world stories inside implant-driven practices to the psychology behind affordability and case acceptance, this episode breaks down why financing is often the difference between a patient moving forward with treatment or walking out the door.

Ryan and AJ discuss:
 • Why financing is not “selling.” It is helping patients afford care
 • The biggest financing mistakes dental offices make
 • Why “we have financing” and “we actually use financing” are two very different things
 • The role of the implant treatment coordinator in case acceptance
 • Waterfall financing and why multiple lending options matter
 • Why some patients choose financing even when they have the cash
 • The dangers of loan stacking and poor financing ethics
 • Why many offices unintentionally talk patients out of treatment
 • Real stories of offices dramatically increasing implant production through better financing systems

The guys also explore patient psychology, treatment presentation, consultation flow, and why affordability conversations should happen privately and professionally instead of at the front desk or in the waiting room. Whether you’re a dentist, treatment coordinator, office manager, or part of an implant-focused team, this conversation offers practical insights into improving patient experience while increasing case acceptance the right way.

🎙 Hosted by Ryan Pritchard and AJ Davino
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

People love when you sit down and they see you working with different financing companies, bringing up different ideas, coming up with creative ways to be able to pay for it. That type of thing isn't really happening too often.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Welcome to Case Closed from Consult to Crown, a podcast for dentists who want to place more implants. My name is Ryan Pritchard, and I'm joined here by my co-host AJ DeVino, and today we're talking about financing. AJ, if someone were to ask me what is the single most effective way to move the needle in a dental office, uh for me, I find it difficult to come up with something more effective than financing.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

It's true. Imagine going to a car dealership and you find the car that you really want, and they tell you, okay, great. Uh do you have $40,000 to give me? And uh I say to them, uh, well, no, uh, I I I don't have $40,000 to give you. Can you help me, you know, pay for something that's $40,000? And they say, Well, I have a brochure.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Here you go. Take it home. Take it home. Let me know if you get approved. Call us. Give us a call. Yeah. Then we'll then we'll sell you the car. Because that's what's happening at a lot of dental offices, right? We're we're asking for lots of money from people, and then we're just sort of looking at them like, I don't know, I guess if you don't know how to pay for it, I don't know how you're gonna pay for it either.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah, yeah, right, right. And the and they have they have financing, like you said. We'll talk about that as as we get into this podcast. The the aggravation that comes with well, well, we have financing, um, but having it and using it are very, very different. And you can see it in in the bank account. But before before we get too deep into this episode, and I do, I want to take, I want to let you take it away, uh, because this is uh you know your department, if you will. But I want to tell the story of uh how we really came to be working together. I don't know if even you know all the details on this, but probably yeah. Um so we we we worked together uh well, we worked at two different at the same company at two different times, right? And and we knew someone who worked there. We started playing soccer together, and uh I remember trying to hire you on on the soccer field uh a couple times. And then one day uh my only client at the time, who also happened to be my dentist, he said to me, I'm gonna hire your friend. And I said, My friend, who? And he said, AJ, and still I said, AJ, who? Right? And and he said, Don't you play soccer with someone named AJ? And I said, Oh yeah, yeah, AJ soccer, yeah, that's how you are in my phone. Same as my phone. Yeah, still today. Um, and he said to me, uh, do you think he would be a good hire? And I said, Yeah, I've tried to hire him several times uh on the soccer field. You should definitely hire him. Uh and and he said, Okay, do you do you have any any criticisms of of AJ? And I said, Yes. I said, Here's here's what's gonna happen. You're gonna hire him, uh, and he's gonna do great. He's gonna kill it here. And and then uh one day he's gonna come in and he's gonna say, Doctor, I uh uh I'm I'm moving to Texas, and you're gonna say, Oh, okay, when? And he's gonna say, Tomorrow. Uh, because AJ is is a nomad and um he's amazing, you know, but I think he's meant for bigger things. Well, you he said, Okay, great, I'll I'm gonna hire him. Right. And then you started, and 30 days into you working there, yeah, um, you took an office that consistently did about $10,000 in implants a month. Okay. And he was not spending nothing on marketing, actually, he was spending kind of a lot on marketing, and consistently doing $10,000. And then you were there for 30 days, and the the revenue went to the implant revenue went to it's like $135,000. Yeah. And I remember Missy coming to me and saying, AJ just closed $135,000 for the treatment. And I said, No, no way. I actually told her this. I said, No, no way, you got through your numbers wrong. Go go back and redo the numbers. And then she she she left and then she came back and she she said, No, this is right. AJ closed $135,000. And I said, Yeah, holy shit. Um, but I also said, Let's see what he does in another 30 days. My guess is what he did is he went in and he found all these failed treatment plans, failed as in not closed, and he cleaned them up, right? And she said, Yeah, that's gotta be it. 30 days later, it was like 220,000. Yeah. So from that point on, I'm like, holy shit, this guy is uh an all-star again. I didn't know you that well. Uh and then the doctor calls me fast forward a year, a year later, maybe a year and a half. He calls me and he says, Well, Ryan, AJ's moving to Texas. And I laughed and I said, I told you that was gonna happen. Uh now obviously I did know that because you had come to me prior and said that you wanted to launch your own company, which you did, and we work together now. But um, when I asked you how did you do it, you know, what did you do here? You said to me the the most important thing I did here is bring in financing. It's true.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Uh when you need when you're looking for uh again, I'm I'm not trying to draw parallels between selling cars and selling dentistry, right? They're two vastly different things, but I mean the largest case I've ever sold is almost sixty thousand dollars. I mean, that is a car, that's a really nice car, right? Or or two okay cars, right? And uh it's just it's it's unreasonable, right, to ask that from someone uh and then not have an ability or a way to just help them be able to afford it. It's it's always fascinating to me. So that's almost a prank. Yeah, it's like ah well, I know you like this shiny object. Yeah, you can get it one day if you figure out how to pay for the shiny object, right? Just just blew my mind. Um, so I got into the office, I added more finance companies, and you know, I I think we're as as this this episode I think goes on, we're gonna we're gonna drill down a little bit deeper into some of the uh specifics, but you know, not stopping at one, not just having one. Uh when I visit offices, new offices that don't really work with us too often, and I'm asking them, hey, uh, do you have finance? You you brought this up a few minutes ago. Do you have financing? Oh, we do, we do. Oh, okay. Well, what do you have? Yeah. Okay, well, I I uh well, we have one. Oh, oh, okay. Well, let me see how often you send in an application. Let's let's log in. Uh, does anyone know the logins? You know? Or I love because uh some of the websites, you know, uh, they're not just you can't just find them on the internet. And I see someone typing, you know, you know, www.thefinance company name.com. And it's like, that's that's not the that's not the website. This isn't where you do that. Right. This is not how you log in. So you you just see that uh, you know, oftentimes there isn't a champion for it, right? It's yeah, we have this uh these lovely brochures they print for for us, aren't they lovely? Yes, patient. Here you go. Yeah, please. Here's our finances. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, you know, we have payments and and things, yeah. Oh, well, what's the interest rate? You know, I don't know. You know, I've never actually read that brochure I'm handing you. I'm just yeah, I just know it it pertains to what you're asking about. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

This is a finance. That's that's what I do know. Quick word from today's sponsor, Care Credit. We use Care Credit in all of our own offices, and we recommend it to our clients because it removes one of the biggest barriers to treatment. Cost. Care Credit gives patients flexible monthly payment options while your practice gets paid quickly, often in just a couple of business days. When you're presenting implants or larger cases, having financing built into the conversation makes a huge difference in case acceptance. Take it from me, I see the numbers. If you're not offering it, you're leaving opportunity on the table. Okay, so let's start. Yeah. Basics. Okay. Yeah. What is financing? Yeah. What is it? Right? There's so many different versions of that. You know, I think to me, the essence of financing financing is the ability to make something expensive, uh affordable by breaking it into multiple payments. Right. Right. And in a dental office, we can do that in several ways. What are some of those ways?

SPEAKER_00 8:48

So uh the different types that we have that yeah. So obviously we do have these nice third-party companies, you know, a company like Care Credit. That's the most I usually say that's the only company that a patient's ever going to walk in and have any experience with, right? They know what it is. They know what it is, right? Household name. Right. For good reason, right? You can go to, you know, the veterinarian and see them. You can go to the I, the iDoctor, what what have you. They're they're everywhere, right? And they have they have that name brand uh on lockdown. Everyone kind of knows what care credit is, right? So you have the third-party companies, you know, that's I guess our first uh line of uh offense, I guess, being able to say to someone, okay, look, I have a way that we can apply you and try to break this up into payments that are going to work for you, right? Uh maybe it'll have interest, maybe it won't, you know, whatever. That that's you know, our our core uh uh way of breaking up payments for patients, right? Uh a lot of offices get into the trap of saying, well, you know what? Uh I don't need all the money right now. You you can just kind of pay me as you go, right? I don't I don't like that. This is the dreaded in-house finance. Yeah, the in-house financing. Right. A lot of offices default to that. And it's like, oh, okay, well, well, I really only need a I I only need a little money at this appointment. And then at the next appointment, I need a little bit more, and then, you know, and then I'm getting a call from the doctor eight months later saying, Why is my why is my accounts receivable out of control? And it's like, well, because you have 12 patients that are in this this nebulous region where they're they're not actually paying every time they come here anymore, right? They're just sort of paying when they can, what they can.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Well, there's a major problem with it too, right? Because if I have a roofing company and I want to give someone in-house financing, I can say, let's say the job's $20,000. I can say, okay, I want $5,000 now. Okay. And then the guys will start. And then once they're halfway through, you'll give me another five. Yeah. Right. And then if you don't, I'm going to just stop doing your roof. You can't do that in dentistry, right? There's laws that prevent that. Right. Um, or with cars, say you can repo a car. I always tell my doctors, you can't, you can't repo teeth. Yet, right? Yeah. They're working on it. Yeah. Give me those dentures.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Give me those chompers, right? Someone steals them while you're sleeping. Yeah. It's happened. Maybe. I don't know. It probably has, maybe in a nursing home. Anyway, uh, some other these are, you know, when someone says, you know, what is financing? What are some ways that we can help patients break this up? That's the first and foremost that I want an office to to throw their resources at. I want them to use uh what these companies are intended for. I mean, they exist for a reason, right? They exist for a reason to to help people afford things. Now, is everyone gonna be able to get approved or get approved for the amount that they need? No. That's that's it's not, right? You know, it's it's my belief that if someone has a dental problem and they come to us and we have the solution, they're gonna say yes 100 out of 100 times to the treatment. Getting them to be able to pay for it is actually where this the this is that that's the job, right? That's what we're actually trying to do.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

We're trying to help someone be able to actually afford this. Affordability. Right. Yeah, not selling. No, it's not selling. It's done. We have yeah, the the sell is I can help you. You know, patients want two things. Can you help me? What does it cost?

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah, I mean, if you take someone through the entire process and at the end of it they say, I don't want that. Call me. Yeah, something's wrong in seriously.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

We we can fix that very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Very quickly. Yeah, very quickly.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Oh my goodness. But you know, I guess another layer down from okay, the patient can't get themselves financed. Okay. Uh, and I know that this may hit some people's ears um strangely, but understand whenever, you know, what I'm gonna talk about in the next few minutes, whenever I say to to you, uh when I'm when I'm actually talking to a patient, what I'm when I'm saying to the patient is, look, you want this, right? Yes, I do. We can't get you through our financing means. Okay, I understand that. Here's what other people do. It's not me saying to someone, well, you didn't get approved. I need you to go get a co-signer, right? Call your mom. Right, call your mom. I I don't want to come off so callous. That's that's not what I'm that's not how I view it. What I view it is, or how I view it is this this lens of look, I know tons of people who have been in the same position as you. This is what they have done. Right. I'm going to make these suggestions to you. I'm not saying to you, go and do this right now, because you might not be able to do whatever I'm about to suggest to you. So I just want to make that distinction. I'm not trying to force people to do something they don't want to do.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Yeah, well, let's put another perspective on that too. There's there's a world where, look, uh all the time, if someone needs financial assistance and they can't get it, they they're not surprised. Yeah. Right? We all have an understanding of where we stand financially. If you go into a bank and you try to borrow a certain amount of money and they tell you no and you're surprised, you gotta pay, you gotta pay attention. That most people that's not the case. Yeah. Um, but there's plenty of people that might have had themselves in that situation, and and whatever got them there is now over. Right. The banks take a while to catch up and to identify that that has happened. Yeah. But family and friends maybe know and trust this these people who need help more than a bank does today. Right. Because they're cleaning up their credit or what have you. And and so a family member might know, I know you're good for it. Right. You know, I'll I'll lend you the 12 or I'll come co-sign on the 12. Um, and and so to deny someone of that opportunity just because they haven't thought of it, right? I don't think it's fair. Right. Right. So, like you said, we don't push them into it, but some people don't even think about it.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

The the lens of this is what other people do in this situation. I know you want it. Let's see how some other people that have been in the same spot, let's see how they did it, right? So, yeah, the the first one is a co-signer. Is there someone in your life who would be willing to potentially take out a loan? We put you on as the patient. Do you have anyone like that in your life? You do? You don't? Okay. You do? Okay, great. Let's get them in. Let let's have let's bring them in here. Don't do it over the phone. Bring them into the office. The person has to see and understand like, what am I doing? How much money do you need? This sounds crazy to me. Yeah. Right. If you try to do this over the phone, right, or you god forbid, have the patient try to re-explain what they just went through on the clinical consult, right? It's gonna be a disaster. So I'm a big, you know, big fan of bring bring them in. Let's come back again for another consult. There's no charge. Let's just have you come in, let's sit down and let's talk and let's show them what is behind this whatever it is, 10 grand, 15 grand, 30 grand, whatever it is. That's a great way to be able to move the needle on someone who can't do it themselves, right? Uh something we didn't mention. I'm a big fan of when we schedule someone for a consultation to come in. I usually want them to bring someone with them. You know, I I use the word advocate, right? Uh is there someone that you bounce big ideas off of, Mr. and Mrs. Patient? Yeah. Uh someone that you go to when you have to make a decision. Spouse, a sibling. Yeah, someone, right? Because we don't want to assume anything, right? So uh can you bring them with you? At no point during the consult will you two be apart from one another. When you have that person who could potentially be a co-signer, or maybe they're the person that the patient's using as the excuse to have to go home and talk to blank, right? If they're if they're with you in the room, you don't you don't have that excuse. And now you also have potentially the person who's going to maybe do the cosigning, you know, with the patient. So big fan of in inviting advocates. That word gets thrown around a lot in our industry lately.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

I don't know why, but whatever. It's a nice word, it's very flowery. So that's one of the, you know, in this hierarchy of where we start, you know, hopefully they can self-finance on their own using our our uh companies that we have then. Okay, you can't. Okay, let's jump to a potential cosigner. Then we start jumping into the more, I'll say, creative spaces to potentially be able to find a loan. Uh, and it's very important that I say this. Uh, I don't want coordinators or doctors or anyone listening in this to think that I jump to these next things immediately. Everything else I'm about to list is probably not something that can be done while they're sitting in front of you. These are things that are gonna take time, right? So you don't default to these, you don't bring these up first. You go through, hey, let's try to get you're you let's try to get you financed through our companies. Then you jump to, okay, maybe we have a cosigner, and then you get into these more uh fringe, you know, ideas that are gonna take time. Don't just jump to them. You know, one of them, I know this sounds absolutely crazy for someone that's maybe listening to this, but I've had people um borrow from their 401k, not take money out of their 401k, but borrow from it.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

And this is the line I usually say uh when I'm when I'm suggesting it to someone. It's like, okay, so what I've had people do in the past is they've borrowed from their 401k. And did you know a lot of different 401k uh holding companies, uh, if you borrow the money from you, the interest that you actually pay back goes to your account, it's not kept by the company. And then that usually, if someone has a 401k to borrow from, usually elicits some kind of, whoa, is that true? And then I immediately say, Well, I have no idea. I have Vanguard. That's how it works for me. If this is something you want to look into, you have to call them.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

But usually, right? Yeah, right. So to be clear, you're not saying pull $10,000 out of your 401k. Uh, you're saying there are either third party companies or you or maybe even the whoever's providing the 401k, you can borrow against it. Correct. Basically, what this means is you're collateralizing a loan with your 401k. So if you default, they just that's they'll pull it out. Absolutely. Um, and someone may have a strong 401k and not the best credit. Right. And so that's a I think it's a great, I think that's a great option for people. Um, I don't see why anyone hears that and and and thinks, oh well, we're asking someone to pull money out of their 401k. No, no, we're not. We're asking someone to utilize the assets that they have. Right. Right. To borrow money that they need to change their life.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

And and sometimes it's not even that they have bad credit, right? They're maybe just overextended. They have a few lines. Yeah. They don't have a whole lot of uh, you know, it's a debt debt to income ratio thing. For sure. So their credit's okay. It's just like I I can't give you a I can't give you this $20, $20,000. Probably because they just bought a Ford F-150. Of course, they need that raptor, right? Yeah. I feel like we're doing a lot of uh shameless uh plugs to different products here. It was not not intended. We're sending you the bill. Ford, please send me a raptor. So uh another layer down, and I know that this is gonna sound absolutely crazy, but I mean I've had plenty of people do this. They've actually taken taken out a home equity line of credit to be able to afford it.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Again, same thing. There's no difference between that and in borrowing against your 401k, right? It's an asset you have. Yep. And if you can utilize it how you want it.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Right. Um, I think of that awful commercial from years ago. It's my money and I want it now. Oh, yeah. JG Wetworth. Another shameless plug. Oh, God. Uh, we're gonna get a lot of letters after this episode. See some desist immediately. Uh so for a second, let's talk about one that I think for me, there there is a type of financing that I I don't like. Oh, okay. I think in-house is is one. Definitely. I tell my clients do not do in-house financing. Um, years ago, I suggested uh without knowing, don't do this because it's not legal. You uh the the like lay layaway, yeah, it's a layaway. Yeah, so it's it's you know, if you're going to do in-house financing, allow someone to make payments now for future work, 150 bucks, whatever it is, for two years, and then you know, and then they can do it. That's actually not legal. You can't do that in a dental office, so don't do that. Don't do that. Um, but contingent funding. Let's talk about that. I won't name the companies because I actually know some people from these companies and they're good people, but there's there's financing out there that's contingent on the person paying, right? So the the bank says, Yes, approved. Um, we will collect the money. They have some sort of soft collections program. And uh what they'll do is they they basically chase the patient for money. And when they get paid, you get paid and then you pay a small fee for that. And it is really small, actually. It's not not not big. But to me, that's it's like a slightly better version of in-house financing. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Uh, I think you you nailed it when you said it's a slightly better version. I almost wonder, like, if you're gonna do that, why why have someone else manage it when you could potentially manage it yourself?

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

If if you're okay with this, yeah. And then, you know, a response would be, well, they they they hunt the person down, so I don't have to. And it's like, okay. I mean, I guess that's what you're paying for if you use these companies, but why couldn't you just do it yourself if that's really a an avenue that you wanted to go?

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Right. Well, in in you know, in our offices, we do not hold AR. We don't do work for people that we aren't paid. We aren't a bank or a dental office, right? And so um we get paid up front for all the work that we do. So we don't find ourselves in that situation. But if we did, right, where we have a a large amount of AR out there on a patient, these are patients, these are people that needed medical help, and then for whatever reason, they're unable to pay for it. So it's our rule in in the companies that we own that we don't go after patients in in any sort of hard collections, we don't send them to collections. Right, you know, we might dismiss them as a patient, um, in but we might do some soft collections, but we don't do it. Right. Right. So even then, I don't I don't know that I want a patient being hounded um by a company because they won't, if they go to leave a bad review, they're not leaving a bad review for the company that's hounding them. Right. They don't say, hey, this is company so and so, and you owe doctor whatever all this. They they say, you know, you owe the doctor this, and if you don't pay, we're gonna call tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow. I don't love that.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Yeah. There there's also some uh interesting uh newer companies or newer avenues that you could potentially explore. One of them, people tend to say, I have a better relationship with my credit union, and I'm going to go and ask them for it. Okay, it's possible. You know, maybe at a credit union you're not a number there. And I've had uh there's there's some other companies right now that believe it or not, uh I don't even know if you know this. Um someone can apply and then actually use assets in their life to actually help back the loan.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Which pretty awesome never I've never seen that before. It's pretty new uh uh to dentistry. So someone can just to be clear here, someone can apply and the and the company will contingently uh uh approve them, and then they start looking into their life to see what assets they have. And one of them could be a car, and they literally use their car as the second lien on a car or a first lien if they own it outright.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Yeah, that's that's newer, unique. So we're collateralizing, you know, and that gets out of control, right? And and if it starts to get out of like you don't want to collateralize your Nikes, right? That's ridiculous, that's ridiculous. Some of them are valuable. That's true. That's true. Give me your shoes and I'll do your teeth. Um so yeah, okay. So there's there's a lot of different types of financing. Um I want to talk next about what why financing is so important. And I think a good way uh to do that is to is I want to tell the story of when we were in uh a town outside of Potsdam, New York. Uh, it is the most no-name town on the planet, and I can say that I'm from a no-name town. Um and I remember we we showed up there, right? I uh it was the second time we had gone because the first time we were late and the doctor was very unhappy with us, so we had to come back. So the the second time we had we had showed up and uh there was somebody coming in for for dental work. And you before they came, you said, okay, do you have a consult room? No, we don't. Okay, do you have financing? And it's like, well, yeah, yeah, we do. It's like care credit or something like that, just one. And um, you know, you said you kind of assessed the situation, and then you said, Okay, what I'd like to do today is just watch. I'm gonna be a fly in the wall. I'm just gonna watch, which is what you normally do, right? On your asset visit, uh, your assessment visits. So, so I'm there too, and and Missy's there, and and you're doing your your assessment, and and we're interviewing everybody in the office. And so we made it through the office was small. So, so her and I, our job was done pretty early. And I remember we ended up walking to an Amish stand and getting strawberries. Yes, the best strawberries I ever had. And we brought them back and we're sitting in the break room, and we're we're just chowing on these strawberries while you're working. Yeah. And uh I remember you came busting into the break room, and you said, I I I just can't, I I need you to get you guys got to get out of here. And we're like, Oh, what do you mean? Get out of here. You're like, You gotta get out of here. I'm gonna bring this patient back to this break room. And the break room was not super nice. It was like a kitchenette. It was like a storage, it was very basement-y, yeah, right. And so we were like, Oh, here now? And you're like, here, now go. And so we're like, okay, and took my strawberries and and I left. And then when I came back, you're like, close that case. Like, what the hell happened? You said you were watching chair side, and you're you you did everything in your power to not jump in. Yeah, but the person was like, Yep, I want it. Um, you know, if you have financing, I I want to do it. He, I think he had said he was like an ex-engineer, yeah, yeah, you know, well educated. Um, he had the money, he just said I wanted to do financing. And the coordinator there um, for whatever reason said, you know, here's a brochure, right? Go go home. Yeah, don't worry, don't worry. And you just were like, no, no, no, no, no. I I need to jump in. Um, it's like National Geographic saving dying turtles. Um I love the turtles. You jumped in there and and you said, I I just gotta, you took it over. You brought the patient into this, you know, decrepit break room uh and you sold the guy in in like 20 minutes. Yeah. It was amazing. 20 minutes, used financing, and it was a big case. Activated the loan. Tens of thousands of dollars activated, and then we came back with uh you know strawberry-filled faces and said, What happened? You said, Well, you just closed some massive case. That for me is there's no better story for for the difference between thirty thousand dollars or something like that, that case was, um, and nothing.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Right. That's financing. It's incredible. Uh, you know, different companies, different people have different percentages, but someone comes in for a consult, that initial consultation, if they leave and you haven't set up how they're gonna pay for it, you haven't activated, you haven't you haven't done that part of it, right? It's just like, yes, I want this treatment, I'm gonna go home think about it, whatever it is. They leave without any kind of commitment. About 15% chance you have of maybe bringing them back. Yeah. You know, I think it's 12. I think 12, yeah, it's it's even lower. Yeah. So uh you have a patient that really wants the treatment, they really want what they came here to to hopefully find a treatment that helps that uh makes them happy, right? They found that. Uh, we came up with a price for them. We we have everything in place, and then to to just say, okay, I can't actually finance you here, or we don't do that here, or why don't you go home and do that? Yeah, it's just crazy to me.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Especially with that specific example, the guy was like, I want to do this. I'm all the way in. I want to do it now. Right. Right. And he lived forever away. Yeah, well, everyone does it that open. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

But the money was made for him. Yeah, the point remains. The point remains. Yeah, just do it now. Again, I'm gonna I'm gonna come back to the car world. Imagine if a car dealership said to you, when you're like when you found your car, you found everything, I gotta have this. Okay, great. Do you have the forty thousand dollars to pay for the car? No, I I I don't. I uh who does? Yeah, I I don't carry, I don't have my forty thousand dollar uh sack of uh sacks with a dollar sign on it here. No, I don't. Okay, well when you do, when you do, here's a couple brochures. Give me a call and then then we'll we'll start cleaning the car for you. We'll see. We'll start getting it ready for you to deliver. Just crazy.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

That's insanity. And and it reminds me actually of we've done a lot of talking about patients who need the affordability, right? This is someone who they don't have cash sitting around right. The idea of fifteen thousand dollars in cash is some people have never even seen that, right? Um, and that's the type of person who needs help to make it more affordable. But on the other end of that spectrum, let's talk about that. Yeah, someone who understands financing. I I I think to, you know, I understand money, I I think. Yeah. Um I hope. I hope. Uh I I have several businesses and and and we have to move a lot of money around a lot. And um, it's not a difficult concept. If you can finance something for me that's $25,000, maybe I have $25,000. I can just give it to you. Right. It's like a suitcase full of cash. Here you go. $25,000. Uh, or I cannot give that to you, and you can give me a loan for six percent, right? Uh, or interest free. Some offices do that. I know you have feelings about interest free, we can talk about that, but but some offices do it. If I can get a deal like that, and I know I can take that $25,000 and and um I don't know, boost a marketing campaign for one of the offices or or or put it toward a down payment on a CBCT, I know that that money I can make more with that than I can save in in avoiding interest. Right. Uh, as long as that interest doesn't get crazy and and they do and they can. Um, but it's not just people that need it to be able to afford it. There's also people on the other end of that spectrum who understand money and they don't want to let go of $25,000. Right? They want that. They want it to work for them. They want it to work for them.

unknown 32:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

I like this setup. I'm not gonna give it to you. I mean, that that actually happens a lot. Uh I don't know why it's not maybe more popular in our world. I'm sure that someone listening here knows the, you know, when we visit offices, uh how often I hear like, oh, this this patient uh is a is a is a local uh knows a lot locally. He's a is a big wheel in town, right? And it's like, I know that they have money. And it's like, okay, well, there's someone you can have a pretty high-level conversation with if their treatment plan is pretty big, right? You could have a very high-level conversation. And uh something I think uh I'm realizing now maybe we didn't mention, uh, or or I didn't, I guess. Um when you have that type of conversation, whether it's someone who does have that kind of money and just doesn't want to necessarily give us $25,000, or someone doesn't have $25,000 cash and they need a way to be able to pay for it. Uh patients and people appreciate when you like do work with them like that, when you go to bat for them, when you are like, okay. A lot of offices are probably just gonna tell you, okay, it is what it is. Call me when everything is settled on your end. People love when you sit down and they see you working with different financing companies, bringing up different ideas, coming up with creative ways to be able to pay for it. That type of thing isn't really happening too often. People recognize it. I think about uh there's an office. For some reason, we have tons of offices in Wisconsin. I think of the office up in Wisconsin, uh, where I was helping to just change that office's approach to talking to people about treatment. And we're in the consult room. We had just gotten them approved for big uh dollar amount for a company that isn't in dentistry anymore, a finance company from yesteryear. And uh I remember everything was set up. I turned the loan on. Uh, I was there, the person who is now the implant treatment coordinator there, even to today. And then the patient was there with uh his significant other. And uh the patient, after everything was done, we're all like excited. The patient says, it was a big, beautiful table like this, and says, you know, guys, I didn't think this was gonna be like this. I just had a completely different vision of what a what an implant consultation at a dental office was gonna be, and it wasn't this. Yeah. Well, it's built by their past experiences. Yeah, we're in a quiet room, the awards on the wall, big screen, going over the treatment, working with them to make sure that this this fits into their budget for an hour, hour and a half. He was completely blown away. And I was very happy because at the time I had just started working with that that coordinator, she got to see in real time, like, this is real. Like, yeah, this is how you can like it, yeah, you can have people apply to financing. Yeah, you can try to help them, but like you're also literally helping them as like from a human-to-human level. You're just literally showing I I'm gonna try to do whatever I can to help you. I know you want this. Maybe I'm getting a little bit of the weeds here, but no, I don't think that that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

And and let's talk about um so even within the third-party companies, um, we've talked about them a little bit. You've got your your lines of credit, you've got um, you know, care credit, they typically are at credit cards. Revolving line, yeah. Yeah, revolving line. Um, you've got some of the financing companies are term loan, some of them are basically in-house financing, contingent funding. Um, some of them waterfall. Yeah. So that's a big buzzword in the financing world uh as of late. Um waterfalling.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Yeah. Tell me what that is. So basically, one application uh for you know, you take the patient, they apply one time, and then it nails, uh it nails, I should be a little more little more proper here. It then takes that application and it hits 50, 60, 70 different banks. So now one application isn't just one, it's now one application is now 60 applications. It's increasing the likelihood of that patient one of those banks saying, Yeah, I will work with this person. Yeah uh it's becoming more popular, I think, because as things are ever evolving in the world in general, outside of dentistry right now. Yeah. And uh, I think more and more companies you're gonna see that model of one application hits many banks, many different banks.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Well, uh, you know, I I like to think that you have something to do with why those companies are are being created. You you said it earlier. I remember a few years ago, uh, I'm sure you remember this too. You would talk to a financing company, big ones, right? And they would say, Well, we want to be your only. Uh right. And in years ago, we would be like, Yeah, sure, Jane, uh, you're you're gonna be our only financing. That's insane. You're not going to be our only financing company. I remember telling um some some big wigs at some of the monster companies. I remember telling them, I'm never ever going to say that in my dental offices. That's crazy. And you talked about it before. You said, do all of the financing companies. And um, you know, we do that at at Crown. It is a rule that you need to do all of them, even if you get an approval. Right. Right. So let's say we've got 10. You go through one and two, and then three, you get an approval. We tell our ITCs or implant treatment coordinators, you have to keep going. Yeah. Why?

SPEAKER_00 38:06

I mean, people like options. Right. If you are just constantly trying to force everyone into the same like little box, you'll lose some people. I like this idea of hey, this company offered you this. I've got this other company here, let's see what they offer you. And I've got this other company here, let's see what they offer you. Some pushback I get sometimes is, well, I don't understand. We already have an approval. Why, why, why would why why wouldn't we just stop with that? And it's like, well, patients don't know what they don't know. If they aren't aware that some of these other companies, and remember, none of these companies hurt your credit to check with them, and none of them have an application longer than if you're good at typing that's gonna take 90 seconds. No hard inquiries, right? What is the harm in getting them approved, right, for five companies and having them choose what makes the most sense for them?

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Right. And when you what you're saying is sometimes for someone it's interest rate. So maybe I've got a 17% interest rate, but over here I have a seven. And listeners might think that's no way. There's no way that's gonna happen. But it does happen, right? It happens all the time. And it it's because I I think you tell me if I'm wrong here, um, maybe I have a certain financial profile that will yield on average a 17% interest rate. Right. But one of those companies I have done business with several times in the past. Yeah, just pick one, Wells Fargo. I have done business with Wells Fargo. Maybe they do my mortgage. I run my name through their through their system. And to them, it's like, oh, we know this person. Yeah. We know this person pays. We have a history with them. Right. And so you'll see 17, 15, 17, 7.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Right. This does happen all the time. It's a major, major reason. If you care about your patient, you will run every single option that you have to make sure that they have the best deal for them.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Right. Or everything you just said, I'll I'll tell you a very quick, crazy uh here's something that you probably anyone listening didn't think of. Uh we work with an office in Texas at this particular office. I'm not gonna say the name, but they serve uh alcohol to their uh patients in consults because it's Texas. No, literally a little rules in Texas. Literally a little beer fridge. Not kidding. Anyway, maybe that helps them. I don't know. So I'm talking to uh it was actually the patients, uh it was actually this gentleman's daughter who we had just moved uh laterals using ortho, ready to get two implants in guy is telling me he makes uh half a million dollars a year, has uh travels the world, you know, very, very, very well off. Like, oh sure. To your point, five, ten minutes ago, could have just handed me the check for whatever it was, nine grand, whatever. We just could have done it, but said, Hey, you got financing, right? I do, I do. Uh let's look, let's see what I can get. Let's see what I can get. Well, uh I applied, I the first one I applied to immediately denied him. Immediately. I said, Okay, that's funny, that's interesting. You know, I'm thinking in my head, you know, maybe he's overextended, maybe he's just lying to me. Maybe, you know, okay. Go to the next one, max amount approved. Go to the next one, max amount approved. Forgot what which one we landed on, chooses it, uh, picks it up, everything's signed, sealed, delivered, everything's great. But I'm I I got this thought in my head. I'm curious. You know, that first one denied why? So I start asking him some questions. I'm like, hey, just out of just morbid curiosity, have you ever worked with this company before? Have you ever worked with this bank before? You know, here's the bank. Have you no, I don't think so. I'm like, are you sure? The one that denied him. Yeah, the one that denied him. I'm sorry. Like, are you sure? Because this seems very odd. And he goes, Oh, wait a minute. When I was young and dumb, uh, I got a boat, and this bank was the holder of the note, and I defaulted on it. Uh-huh. Doesn't matter that he makes half a million dollars a year and can it's blacklisted. That company doesn't want to work with him again. Right. If I had stopped at one, I mean he would have just paid cash. However, in this scenario, right, this isn't life or death for this particular person, but that's like a unique situation you don't even necessarily think of. If you if you it's possible, right, that uh one of the companies you use, you apply, they get denied. And then maybe it's just that one. I've also been uh on the on the opposite side of that. I apply them to seven, eight different companies. They all say no except for one, and that's the one that they go with. I mean it works both ways, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Yeah, right. Your history with a bank follows you probably forever. Yeah. Right. And we've all defaulted on boats before. Oh, countless times. Countless, countless bolt defaults. Uh um okay. Uh so I want to play a little game with you without thinking. I want you to just quickly don't go into detail. We'll get into detail on all of them. I just I want to see how your brain's working. Okay. Uh I'm gonna ask you the three biggest no-nos in financing that someone can do in a dental office. Don't go into detail, we'll go into detail after. Okay. But the three biggest no-nos in dental financing, what are they?

SPEAKER_00 43:22

Uh don't talk about it in the if you have a consult room, do it in the consult room. Don't talk about financing in the waiting room. The waiting room. Don't talk about financing at the front desk in earshot of everyone. Yeah. Don't do that. Uh, I would say another huge one is don't just hand someone a brochure. Do it for them. You've got to do it for them.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

Or with them. Or with certain financing companies, certain places you you have to assist. That's correct. Yeah. But don't send them home. Don't send them home. Here's a brochure.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Don't send them away. Here's a brochure. Yeah. Let me know when you got it, right? Let me let me know when you're all set. And I would say just not having enough or only having one, I think, is just a huge no-no. Yeah, big one. Not not being able to offer oh well, this one didn't work. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Yeah. Whoops. Sorry. Oh, that's crazy. Uh, those are three awesome ones, actually, but but I I I have one too that that I think is is really, really strong. Yeah. And it's something that people almost never talk about. So loan stacking. Oh. Let's talk about loan stacking for a second. So uh for those of you who don't know, loan stacking is this practice. Essentially, what we're doing is fooling the blank, the banks, right? So um, we talked about a financial profile. We all have a financial profile. It's it's it's both good and bad, right? Um you go into a dental office, they try to get you approved, and let's say this bank says this person can be approved. We back the idea of this person being approved for 5,000. But the treatment is 15,000. So we have some dental offices, and I have worked with some major KOLs who actually teach this. Key opinion leader. Yeah, yes. Uh, they teach it, right, to loan stack. And not only is it not legal, uh, it's an awful thing to do to another human being. And so what happens is this bank has said, okay, 5,000, this is what this person can afford. Another bank says 5,000, this is what this person can afford. And then another one says five, right? So we've done all of our due diligence, just like you've said, checking every single bank. We've determined basically uh your profile yields a $5,000 lending power, borrowing power. Right. Well, in some shady ways, some offices will activate three loans to get the 15. Yeah. And so now three different financial institutes have told you this person should not, they'll be stretched after five. And we put them into fifteen. Yeah. Right. And we did it by tricking the banks. Right. Uh, that's wrong. I don't think we should do that. I mean, from a legal standpoint, it's banks, so like whatever, guys. Yeah. Uh, but still not cool. Right. Um, but with our patients, it's an ethical thing, it's a moral thing. Morally, yeah. I hate it. And so loan stacking, um, not allowed in in our dental offices.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

Yeah, we don't like that.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about the waiting room for a second. Love it. I think people do it less. And again, I like to say that you and I have something to do with it. But yeah, three years ago, the number of people we would go into a dental office and and I my brain would melt as I watch them talk about $25,000 in in funding, right? Well, we do financing. Yeah, where do you do it? In the waiting room. Yeah. Patients standing, literally, not figuratively, literally halfway out the door. They're halfway out the door. Yeah. They're on their way out. And we stop them in front of staff and in front of other patients to say, do you want to do financing? Yeah. What's your social security number? Let's fill this out. How much money do you make a year? How much money do you make? How much money own a home? Do you want to have a home? Sorry, you've been rejected. Do you want to do another one? Right. I mean, I can't imagine why anyone would do that and not realize this is a bad idea.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

Yeah. Uh a lot of car analogies here. When you go to test drive a car, do you talk about money on the test drive? Do you talk about money in the middle of the showroom floor so everyone in the dealership can hear what the heck you're talking about? No. You talk about it privately in an area where no one else can hear what the heck you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

Do you talk about their treatment at the waiting room? Yeah. Oh, that's a that's another thing. You know, like silly. It's it's really silly. Uh and and we went through the the brochures and and and the different types of banks and and waterfalling. So there are a few companies um just kind of reach out to us about uh these companies. And the reason why I I don't want to just say who they are is something that happens a lot. It's funny, I just got a call from a doctor and and he's well connected across the country. He said, Ryan, what's going on? I said, What do you mean? He's like a such and such financing company. They're they're no longer, they just don't approve like they used to. And I said, Yeah, Doc, this is normal, right? We have uh a finger on the pulse of financing and it the ebbs and flows, and God knows what and why that happens, right? There's acquisitions and mergers and and different things that happen. You know, there was a uh a couple years ago, there was a really hot financing company that came from um home improvements. And I remember talking to uh Russian guy. He was a VP there, and and and I said, I don't he was telling me what they do. Oh, we do kitchen remodels and and attic remodels, and we want to get into dentistry. And and I remember looking at him like, you're you're insane. Yeah, right. Like the person who's getting a $45,000 kitchen remodel, that's not the same person who's getting $45,000 in new teeth typically. And he said, Oh, yeah, yeah, we know that. And I'm like, I don't I don't know if you do. I don't know if you do. Uh fast forward a year and a half later, they're gone. But they were they were super hot for a while, right? So there's this massive ebb and flow with different financing companies, and we constantly keep our finger on it. So to say, oh, this is who's who's hot right now, it's just waste because if you're listening to this a year later, whoever's hot today is not gonna be hot tomorrow. Flat out might not exist anymore. Yeah, it happens all the time. Yeah, and you also need to be careful with the fly by night company. So absolutely. Um okay, cool. So how often should someone utilize financing? So as someone has a hundred patients come through their dental office, how often should they do, should they run financing for patients?

SPEAKER_00 50:16

I mean, if it's my office, uh I would want an attempt on all 100.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

All 100.

SPEAKER_00 50:22

Yeah. Uh our highest performing coordinators, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. I know Maxilla tracks this, but our highest performing coordinators are what between 50 and 60 percent of the patients that move forward are using some form of financing.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

Yeah, I think that's an important KPI or or key key performance indicator that Maxilla tracks for um for us in our offices, the ones that we own, and then also for our clients, but also for you. Yeah. Right? It's a number you love to see. Yeah. So um when you're hiring and in in um I guess monitoring, right? An implant coordinator, I can tell you um, you know, to the second decimal what percentage of patients they utilized financing for. And I love this one. I love this one. Uh you'll go in and you'll say, hey, you know, you're only doing five percent fine. Five percent of the people who move forward. You have actually you've got, you know, 60% of people who come through here are moving forward, but only 5% are using financing. There's a lot of reasons why that's not a good idea. By using financing, we can improve many things, including dollar per per uh treatment. Um, but my favorite one, my favorite response to that is oh, right, you don't understand. Everyone in my office uses cash. Yes. Have you heard this before?

SPEAKER_00 51:44

Oh, yes, just a few times.

SPEAKER_01 51:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

What is up with that? Everyone who comes in, our patients, they pay cash for it. I've actually flat out had patients, excuse me, uh, doctors, clients, when we're when I'm starting to work with them, flat out tell me, so listen, I really want to make sure that we we we get a lot of the patients who move forward that they can just afford it on their own and they don't need financing.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

What? Yeah. I I I literally ask out loud, what what what did what does that mean? I don't I don't understand. What are you what are you what what is your aversion to that? Well, why don't you feel like you should sell something else? Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

You you should sell million dollar condos. Right.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Um fascinating thought process. I only want cash paying patients. Yeah, right. Why?

SPEAKER_01 52:31

Why I don't understand why uh yeah, and and then uh to go back to the ITCs that that tell us, or it's usually not an ITC, it's someone who's filling that role. Um people in our office use cash, you know, it's then you go and you say, Well, how many times have you run financing in the last six months? And you run into what you just were talking about earlier, which is when I even ask you to log in. Don't know how. Don't know you don't even know how to log in. So you're not trying. And so it just it's silly to me. Uh, if I have a burger place that also sells fries and I don't have fries on the menu, I don't ask anyone if they ever want fries, and then when a consultant comes in, I tell them, Well, we just don't sell fries here. We there's people just don't want it. And it's like, but you don't have it on your menu, you don't talk about it, you have it in the back, yeah, right? Uh, you have a brochure about fries. Um, that's why you only sell burgers here, right? Right. That's it's I mean, it's the exact same thing. Um, and never ever have we been told that oh, people just use cash here, and we can get our hands on it, and then it maintains that people use cash inevitably. It just is uh a silly idea.

SPEAKER_00 53:45

Right. We're not we're not advocating talk them out of using cash. It's just you're missing a whole subset of people that don't have cash. You're just remembering the ones that do have cash to pay for things. So a whole long list of people that if you just offered, if you just helped them be able to afford it, they would have moved forward too. Yeah. Your cash patients are your gravy, your your your low-hanging fruit, your wow, this is great. Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, talk about this person who really wants this treatment but doesn't have the buckets of cat. Yeah, right. Bucket weeds a cat. I love that one.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

I stole that from you. Yeah. Okay, so uh we are running out of time here. I I I want to in our last episode, we we did uh an AJ's adventures. Um, and and I want to do that, but but before I do that, I I showed the podcast to my nine-year-old daughter, Lily. Oh her. And she said, Dad, you should have uh Lily's dad jokes on the episode. Oh and she gave me one. Okay, and I'm gonna give it to you now. Okay. So before we go to that, I want to do that. Let's do it. All right. So she says, What do you call a fish with no eyes? An amoeba. A few no eyes. Oh boy. Uh so she's not gonna like that that bomb so bad. Uh okay. AJ's Adventures. Let's hit the let's hear your story. The audience will let us know if it's a good one. I think the audience will get it. I don't think you got it. Guys, did we get it? Everyone else got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

See a lot of nodding, smiling. Uh so uh a nice adventure. Uh, I've got a fun one uh that relates to today. They won't always relate to what we're talking about. Oh, yes. This one fits pretty well. So uh I visited an office a few years back. Uh I was doing my assessment visit, which is just the first time I visit an office. I need to see what the heck is going on. I need to meet the people involved. I need to just be a fly in the wall and see what's going on so that I know how to help it, right? So I'm I'm doing my assessment visit, and when I arrived, I was told, you know, what each person's function was in the office, you know, dental assistant, hygienist, uh front desk uh financing coordinator. So I, of course, you know, zeroed in my a lot of my attention during this assessment visit on the finance coordinator, because in my brain, that means that this person talks to patients about money, right? Watched for two days. And uh after the second day, what I noticed a lot of uh, because it did come up, when someone needed to talk about money or treatment or financing, it was okay, yeah. So uh yeah, here's a brochure, you know, uh, I don't, I don't, you know, I go home, think about it, you know, that here's your treatment, here's a treatment plan. You know, consider all your options, make sure this is something you want to do, and then it's kind of brooms them out the door. So that night, uh I'm sitting with the doctor at a at a dinner, just sort of recapping some things that I had seen. And I said, Hey, you know, I I've I've got to ask you. Uh, I've been here two days, and you know, I I didn't see your your finance coordinator. Uh not only did they not process one financing application, they actually actively talked people out of looking into financing.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

I told people not to do it.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

Basically, yeah, like, oh, I don't know if this is something you want to do, you know, just here's your treatment, you know, let us know. Um I I asked her, I said, you know, hey, why don't you your role as finance coordinator? I I I asked her before I left, and and this is before the dinner with the doctor, I asked her flat out, like, like, why do you not offer this? Uh that's kind of your role here. Is is there something wrong? Do you do you know not know how to use them? She said, AJ, I just think that if you can't pay for something in cash, you just shouldn't have it. That's what I believe. Well, I I I just took that information and said, okay, you know, and uh you know, typing notes in my laptop there. Fast forward to that evening with the doctor, and I tell him what I I had just told you, which is your finance coordinator basically just told me I don't believe in financing. And it's because my belief is you shouldn't pay for something that uh uh you shouldn't have anything that you can't just hand someone cash for.

SPEAKER_01 58:10

And this has been his financing coordinator for years.

SPEAKER_00 58:13

Yeah. And the doctor uh thinks about it, and he's really funny. Uh I still chat with him to this day. Says, well, uh, that does make sense. She did marry like a local millionaire, and she doesn't really need financing for anything. If she wants something, she just buys it. There it is. There it is. Do you think this is the best person to try to get people to finance it? Did you ask her if she believes in financing? So that that's that's AJ's fun. I don't know if we're gonna have music. Oh, yeah. Let's do music, Jason. We want music for for AJ's adventures. Yeah. I want it to be the uh the theme song for uh Bulk and Skull on the Power Rangers. Does anyone know what that wow?

SPEAKER_01 58:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

It's that show's defunct, right? We can totally use that sound. I think so. I think so. It's public domain now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:01

Oh, it's been around that long.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

Oh, I didn't think of it that way.

SPEAKER_01 59:05

All right, I'll shut up. Yeah, you should. Okay, we have got to to close it up here. Um, AJ, this has been an awesome conversation. Yeah. Um, I'm so glad it's our second episode ever. Uh and and I I think financing really uh should have been the topic that that that we talked about. It is so wildly important to different uh success stories in so many offices, and it will change the game. Um so uh for those of you who are listening, just if if you follow, like, subscribe, and all the other podcasty things, we would very much appreciate it. Thank you for attending uh our podcast, and we'll see you next time. That's another that's another case closed.

SPEAKER_00 59:50

Tink and we'll get it right.

SPEAKER_01 59:52

Uh these days. Closed. Done. Thanks for tuning in to Case Closed from console to crown. New episodes drop every other week. If you're watching on YouTube, give us a like, leave a comment, and consider subscribing to catch all of our upcoming content. Click the notification bell, and feel free to leave a review or share the show with a friend. We greatly appreciate your feedback. And if you'd like to reach out to AJ or myself directly, leave us a message at anothercaseclose.com. Thanks for being here, and we'll see you in the next episode.