Ep. 3 | The ITC: The Most Important Hire In Implant Dentistry | Case Closed: From Consult to Crown

In Episode 3 of Case Closed: From Consult to Crown, Ryan Pritchard and AJ Davino break down one of the most overlooked roles in implant dentistry: the Implant Treatment Coordinator.

From case acceptance and patient communication to financing, expectations, and follow-up, the ITC often becomes the difference between an implant office that stays stagnant and one that truly scales.

Ryan and AJ discuss why most offices either misunderstand the role entirely or fail to dedicate the right person to it. They also explain why the best ITCs are not “salespeople,” but patient advocates who help people move forward with life-changing treatment.

Topics discussed:
 • What an Implant Treatment Coordinator actually does
 • Why most implant offices never scale without one
 • The personality traits that make a great ITC
 • Why patient trust matters more than “selling”
 • Financing conversations and case acceptance
 • The difference between average and elite coordinators
 • Why some practices stay stuck despite strong marketing
 • Real examples of growth after implementing the role
 • Hiring for personality vs. dental experience
 • How expectations shape the patient experience

If you’re a dentist placing implants, building an implant-driven practice, or trying to improve case acceptance, this episode explains why the right coordinator may be the most important hire you ever make.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Without a treatment coordinator in office, it's just never gonna be as big as it could be, and not by a little. Right. By a lot. Yeah. Hello and welcome to Case Closed from Consult to Crown, a podcast for dentists who want to place more implants. I'm your host, Ryan Pritchard, and I'm joined today by my co-host AJ DeVino. And today we're talking about the treatment coordinator, or as we commonly refer to them on the show, AJ, as the ITC.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Yes. Uh for anyone who has listened to the prior ones, I think I used IC ITC as an acronym 29 times without clearly defining what it is. My apologies.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

We have a whole episode today to define what ITC means. And there's a lot of different names for ITC: financial coordinator, uh treatment coordinator, patient advocate. Patient advocate. Um just so many different versions of an ITC. Uh we have landed on ITC or implant treatment coordinator. Um I think our last episode we talked about you know the single most important thing. If there was one thing that you had to have, it was financing. Um but I also think treatment coordinator. Without a treatment coordinator, an office is just never gonna be as big as it could be, and not by a little, right? By a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Yeah. It's uh it's an often, I don't know if misunderstood is the right word, but it's for a lot of doctors, they don't necessarily they're not necessarily ready to maybe take the plunge. They don't necessarily know who to look for, how to anoint someone, how to train them, where to find them. Uh recently a uh I was asked a question at a at a at a dental uh conference, you know, where do you where do you hunt for ITCs? Where do you get them from? You know, those are all like really fascinating questions, uh, because uh I have in my head uh uh some rules when I'm looking for one for one of our offices or for an office that has hired me to find them in ITC, right? Um it is a big commitment, right? It's an employee that on paper isn't, you know, uh not a hygienist, right? They're not producing something, right? They are, hey, this is someone I'm putting installing into my office. They don't produce anything. I'm just hoping that they're gonna get enough people to say yes to justify having them in the office, right? It's a it's it's a departure from the norm in a dental office, I'd like to feel.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Yeah, that's what I was just gonna say. Is it's not normal. Um, and it's becoming, I think, more normal. Yeah. Um but but still to this day. I just I walk into a lot of dental offices, and there's two things I don't see very often. Um consult room. Yeah, right? Crazy. And then a person to sit in that consult room and and talk to patients about their consult. So let's start at what a treatment coordinator is. What is their role? What are they doing? Why are they there? Yeah. Um, and then what are they not? Quick word from today's sponsor, Care Credit. We use Care Credit in all of our own offices, and we recommend it to our clients because it removes one of the biggest barriers to treatment. Cost. Care Credit gives patients flexible monthly payment options while your practice gets paid quickly, often in just a couple of business days. When you're presenting implants or larger cases, having financing built into the conversation makes a huge difference in case acceptance. Take it from me, I see the numbers. If you're not offering it, you're leaving opportunity on the table. Right. So let's start with what are they?

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Well, uh, uh just in in in plain English, they are a person in a dental office, and their primary function is to help people uh move forward with treatment. And it's in its most simple definition, right? It's so much more than that, though. I like to look at an implant treatment coordinator as something or a person who is white glove uh treatment, uh wearing white gloves while handling dealing with patients from beginning to end, from phone call to consult to them moving forward to everything in between, right? They are like a liaison between the dental office and the patient, right? A lot of times uh we look at a patient coming in, let's say for like a filling, right? It's a pretty easy conversation. Hey, you have a filling, we need to fill it, it's gonna cost this, and let's have you back on this day. You don't need that extra touch, you don't need that extra uh higher-end experience, right? When you're talking to someone about, hey, um, I need to remove all the teeth out of your mouth. I need to completely change fundamentally everything about you in your mouth, right? Uh, and it's gonna take X amount of months and it's gonna take X amount of tens of thousands of dollars, right? Asking someone in a dental office who was hired to, I don't know, turn turn turn rooms over or to answer the phones in the front desk, right? It's unfair, I think, to maybe ask them, hey, can you can you please go talk to this person who's crying in there who came here thinking they were gonna get a partial and now I need to take all their teeth out, you know? So to me, they're they're actually three things they're uh they're a clinician, meaning they have to know a lot about the work that the office can give someone or selling anything that you don't really know about is insane.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Is insane. And and I'll interrupt you for a second to say my salespeople at Maxilla, you know, I when I see my salespeople reading sales books, oh my God, I take that thing and throw it right in the fire. If you are a salesperson and you're reading a sales book, you've already failed. Right? The books you should be reading is is the the content of the subject that you're selling. Right. Right? You should know about what it is that you're selling. So give me that sales book, yep, and here's a dental book, and and I want you to read about you know whatever it is in plantology.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Yeah, what life is like in a dental office, because you're not in one every day, right?

SPEAKER_03 6:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

So absolutely an ITC needs to be a clinician. They need to understand fundamentally, they're not the doctor, they're not replacing the doctor. They should be able to basically almost speak like one, right? Because the audience that they're speaking to are not experts, they know virtually nothing. So it's not necessarily hard to get someone you're talking to, a lay person, to understand these concepts, right? If anything, it's it's better if you're not some big cerebral clinically driven person, right? Because you're trying to relate to someone who most likely isn't. So it's it's actually not a bad idea if you're not this crazy, oh, you know, every uh what millimeter of thickness is gonna be a clinician. You you also need to be uh, I like to say, a psychiatrist. You're dealing with people uh with crazy, crazy charged emotions, right? Can't tell you how many times I've been involved in a consultation where someone comes in thinking one thing, thinking they need a tooth, and we have to break the news to them. There is not one tooth in your mouth worth saving, right? Uh doctor, uh great doctor I used to work for, mentor of mine, used to say to patients, he was kind of gruff with patients, but it it's because he cared. He would say, you know, you're you you you came in here and you want me to fix this one tooth. You're you're asking me to paint the fence while the house is burning to the ground. Yeah. Could I do it? Sure. Does it make any reasonable sense? Absolutely not, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Well, that's good dental treatment planning, right? Great point. Understanding what's broken and and that philosophy works, I think, yeah, in all ways.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Yeah. Yeah. And uh do you think most people are gonna just take that information and be super happy about it? Oh, great. I wanted one tooth. I I need 32. We don't give people 32 teeth back, but yeah, you know, this this this idea that uh you're gonna be this this robot or uncaring person when you're gonna be talking to someone who has to make a life-changing decision, right? Both, you know, medically they're thinking about what's gonna change for them, but also financially what's going to change uh for them. If you aren't a compassionate, uh caring person, right? You're just some automaton that just tries to get people to move forward with treatment, that's ridiculous. It's part of that white glove handholding uh from beginning to end uh ability that I mentioned about ITCs. And the third one is of course, you need to be a banker. So you need to wear these three hats. The banker one I think we covered pretty heavily before in a previous episode, but that's the uh patient financing. Patient financing, right? Uh whether they're financing or they're not, you're a banker in a sense that you have to help someone come to terms with this is how much money I need to amass to be able to reach the outcome that I want. Do you want to look better? Do you want to eat better? What what what why did you come here? Do you have a lower denture you don't wear? Did your uh grandson come up to you and say, you know, uh pep pep, why did your teeth fall out? I have no idea where pep pep came from. Is that what you call it? There's a pop pop. I don't know. Either way, pep, pep, pop, pop, poo, poo, whatever. Whatever it is. You know, whatever it is, whatever the motivation is, uh, you need to wear these three hats. So uh that's probably the most long-winded answer ever when you asked what is an ITC. At the end of the day, it's its primary function is assist people in the decision-making process and then help patients be able to afford life-change potentially life-changing treatment. I guess if I had to affix some kind of broad sentence to them, um I feel like I've literally, this is the longest I've literally spoken nonstop without any interaction from you. I'm very sorry. Staring into your eyes as you as you talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

I throw it as dry. Listen, it's super important. Um, and what I didn't hear you say is they are a salesperson. Ah, I don't think you said sales once. Um, and I think it is so commonly confused uh in in in the dental office, um, you know, uh that I need someone who can sell. Yes, right. You know, oftentimes someone who can sell can do this job. Um, but uh, you know, I I I was gonna say I don't want to be a beat a dead horse, but I do. We're gonna beat this horse dead and then we're gonna beat it dead. Um beat again and again again. Uh our ITCs are not salespeople. The patient who comes through this process does not get to the end and go, I don't want that. Right. 99 out of 95 times uh at the end a patient says, I want this. Right. Right. And then it becomes, how can I afford it? Absolutely. And so it sales, you know, it the sales part is easy. And the doctor, the staff, the experience, this really the need, the solution to the problem is what does the sale. Right. Then we need to find the way that it's affordable. So in your very long-winded, wonderful description of what a treatment coordinator is, you didn't say a salesperson even once. Never will. Um but other common mistakes, right? I I I think uh two I heard you sort of talk about. Uh one is they're also not an assistant, they're not a front desk person, right? Um, they're not a hygienist. You might find someone who could do the job, right, from those positions. But the amount of times we go into an office and you have a front desk person who's also your ITC, how does that work? How do you have someone selling treatment, financing a patient? That's the that's the thing that takes the longest, right? Is the financing. Right. It's like, yeah, you have a problem. Yes, we can fix it. That's gonna be 12 grand. Yeah, let's go talk about how we're gonna afford that. That's what takes so long.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

So here they are, you've spent the hundreds or thousands of dollars to get them in the office. They're here, they're talking to you, they're interested, and you're in the middle of financing, and you have to come grab this person and say, Hey, you gotta go prep your room. Yeah, you gotta go turn it over, you have to go answer the phone.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Someone needs to be checked out. Yeah, whatever else it is they do. Uh God forbid a filling, right? Meaning, you know, like the the the trade-off being what you're talking about is tens of thousands of dollars, and then going and assisting with something with insurance uh we're basically doing for free, or we're doing it a wash, right? Yeah, it's it's incredible. Um just the the thought of you know what, I don't necessarily need a dedicated expert on this. I'm just gonna let the office uh really good. The patients love her. Oh, they love talking.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Yeah, they love her. It's it's not about if they connect, it's about do they have the time. Can you afford to give them the time they need to do the financing, which takes a long time?

SPEAKER_00 13:22

You know, just to uh harp on this, to me, a the consult yes, you need to bring them in, you need to take a scan, hopefully a CT, bring the patient in, have a CT, talk about treatment, come up with options, right? Yes, that's all part of the consult. But for me, that really isn't because I know the person will always want what we just came up with. They will. If we have the solution, that's why they're there, right? It's you can be the best car salesman, you could be the best high-end watch salesman in the world. There's a world where all of your skill matters not because you literally just don't have the inventory for what this person is seeking. That literally doesn't happen in dentistry. If you can help the patient, you have the inventory. So now it just becomes getting them to be able to work it into their budget. So for me, that's the consult. Everything clinical in an in an implant consult is important. You need to have it, absolutely. But it's expected, the outcome there is expected every single time. The consult really is okay, we've got the solution. Let's make sure that we can get you to be able to uh work this into your budget, however, whatever flowery uh language you want to affix to it, right? That's that's to me the consult. If you have to interrupt it, like you said, um cardinal sin, cardinal rule in all of our offices, when the consult room door is shut, unless the building is on fire, don't bother that.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Yeah, we were in our office in New York uh two, three weeks ago. Ah, and you you came busting into the we have this office that we commandeer when we're there. You came busting in the office, you said, I'm gonna buy this thing. I'm I'm buying it right now. Is that okay? And you showed me it was like 12 bucks. I'm like, yes, it's a little slider. It's a little slider on the the the the implant treatment coordinator's door that basically red, red, green, red or green. Red. Don't come near this place. Green, okay. Because you every time you go down there, we're we're in the middle of a consult and someone comes in in this office, uh, this important point, uh, that the the the office for whatever reason shares the consult room with the ITC, which we've told them several times, stop doing this. Um, they gotta go grab their lunch, they gotta go grab their coat, they gotta go grab whatever it is, they're going and they have to bop in there. And if you've done sales in your life, again, I just said they're not a salesperson. I keep saying the word sales, but if you've done it in your life, then then you know if you knock me off track, even a little bit. It happens on this podcast. Yeah. Go ahead, go ahead. You just did it to me. What was I saying? All right, if you knock me off track, even a little, you've hurt the shot that the the chance that I have to sell. Yeah. Maybe I still do it, but each time you do that, um, it's it becomes more and more uh troublesome, harder and harder to sell.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

And so um we have a very strict rule if you have a console going on, so much so now that that you've bought a device for him to use to say, do not enter this room because it's that important. We're gonna see next week if they listen or not. Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, we're back down there next week. So um I'm I I hope to see that in action. Um, let's get back to what they are not. Yeah. So the second thing I think that a lot of people expect to see out of someone in their office is they'll say, oh, you know, have Shannon do it. Shannon's really good at collecting money from insurance companies. So so she'll be really good at collecting money from patients. Uh I can feel you cringe as I say that, don't you lie?

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Well, I mean, uh what do we want in someone who's good at at collecting money from insurance companies? Someone who's really good at beating them up, right? Aggressive. Being aggressive. Mean. Flat out mean. Yeah, beat the beat the insurance company up. Beat them into submission, right? Yeah. All traits that we absolutely want when someone is talking to patients, right? All perfectly awesome traits. Beat the patient, beat the patient into submission. Twist their arm, right? Yeah. But I understand conceptually, right? Because this idea of, well, they're really good at getting money from insurance companies, they'll be really good at being able to get money from patients. So I you can see that there is some correlation here, right? But it's it's not. It doesn't go beyond this idea that they're they're they both collect money.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Right. That's it. That's it. Uh it's a super different person. And it's not to say that that an insurance coordinator. My God, we need them. You need them. Yeah. They're the enforcers, right? Absolutely. Holy cow. Um, it it it reminds me uh of an office who uh they signed up with us and a doctor told me that. And I went down and and I met this person. Um she has since passed a, you know, um, you know, God rest her soul. But she she was exactly what we're describing. The doctor said, Oh, you gotta have gotta have her do this. She she's so good at beating up insurance companies. And I'm like, oh, okay. And then I went down and I met her, and I'm like, oh no, no, we can't never. And and I told her, and she was like, Yeah, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do it anyway.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

I don't want to talk about you.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yeah, I like beating up the insurance companies. And and so we said, Okay, we're gonna we're gonna shift you away from implant treatment coordination. Because another thing, we just talked about it, how often its office manager is also the coordinator and how sort of they are so sure they can continue to do that. Well, not her. She was like, No, no, no. Please get me out of here. Please get me out of here. Let's have someone else uh take this position. And then we brought you in to hire that person. And I would say pretty recently, AJ, she is starting to approach, maybe including you, the best ITC I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

I uh I said it last week. We've been dethroned. Yeah, I think I I I have been. Um, she's on another level. Uh her abilities uh far, I think, surpass what I was doing years ago. And uh I think something that's really uh important to point out, uh as good as she is. Uh in fact, I I 93 correct me if I'm wrong, 93% of the treatment that was presented to patients in the last three months, the patients move forward.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

It's a testament to her ability. It's just absolutely incredible. Numbers I don't think we've ever seen.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yeah. So it it Maxilla, we call that realization rate. So yeah, basically what we're doing is we're tracking what was actually presented and what did patients accept. Um, and that tells us a story of you know how we are managing um our treatment presentation. Right. Right. If you're presenting hundreds of thousands of dollars and patients are not accepting it at a regular basis, then we need to shift that process. And a good ITC is going to understand that. Something that you did at the first office you were you were ever at, you know, you realize that this particular doctor was treatment planning massive stuff, which it's like, okay, treatment plan the massive stuff. But we I you gotta give me other things, right? I'll sell the Ferrari all day long. But for the people who don't want a Ferrari or can't afford a Ferrari, where's my Lexus? Where's my Corolla? Right, all the way down to where's my moped? Where's my bicycle? Yeah, right. Um, I I the the idea is transportation. I need to sell them something. Right. Um, and um, to me, again, I just said that word again. Uh, but it is to me that's patient forward. Yeah. Okay, right? We're gonna bring you in here, and maybe we we want we all want the Ferrari, but we most of us can't afford it. So what can we do? Let's meet the patient where they are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Uh McDonald's doesn't have uh one size, they have three, right? Most people fall somewhere in the middle. This is just a common it happens to us is we're out consuming things all the time. People like options. If you're only throwing one option at someone all the time, you're you're missing out. Uh one other thing I wanted to comment about this particular person is you know, that that 93% number, basically almost everyone that she spoke to move forward. Um, I guarantee if I took all of those people, how many? I don't know, it could have been 50, 60, actually in a quarter, it's probably closer to like a hundred or more people. I bet you if I brought all 100 of them somehow onto this podcast, uh, none of them would ever say that she. Pushy that she made them feel like she wasn't listening. I I just know it. I just know it because I know how I know her style. I know what she's like. She's able to throw up numbers like that. Not because she is, you know, an aggressive, I don't know, aggressive insurance salesman or an aggressive person, right? She doesn't hide people's keys, she doesn't twist arms. She just understands, hey, I know you want this. I'm gonna help you be able to get it. And I'm gonna go to bat for you. I'm gonna do whatever I can to help give you what you want. I mean, man, I I definitely don't think we were we were maybe thinking about going off into this tangent, but I think about offices that will come back to us sometimes and say, you know, gosh, you know, I'm I'm I'm kind of getting weird about implants because you know, a lot of times uh implant patients, they're not like super thrilled with how things turned out, right? That they're a little confused, I thought the treatment was this. I I thought I was getting this. And, you know, I can tell you from experience, the, you know, shit in, shit out, you know, if your consult process is shit, and how you're describing what's going to happen to this patient is shit. We've seen it in in real time with one of our offices. There was an ITC there uh that was weak and would just gloss over details and gloss over things and just get the patient to move forward. And then that patient was seeing lots of, excuse me, that office was seeing lots of patients unhappy with the work. People aren't unhappy. This this person we're talking about, uh this amazing 93%er here. I don't know where that's what I'm gonna call her now.

unknown 23:36

93%.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

She doesn't have that. That office doesn't have that because she's incredible at setting an expectation and delivering such an amazing experience that it's actually helping the outcome. Uh again, I I don't think we necessarily necessarily had that outline as something we were gonna talk about today, but I I actually think it just kind of happened organically. It's very natural.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

No, but it is though. So I did want to talk about it because whoops. Um he's jumping ahead. Uh no, it it's so important. And to be clear, just so everybody understands, what we're talking about is we've got ITCs that help a patient go from I don't know anything about this to now I do, to now I want it, to I'm going to get it and I'm going to pay for it. Now I have it, and and now I have post op whatever. This is the ITC. This is what they do. And it can greatly affect, believe it or not, people are gonna roll their eyes at this. A good ITC will have an effect on your clinical success. Totally. Does it really?

unknown 24:43

No.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

No. But a great ITC has an effect on the perspective that a patient has on your clinical capabilities. So I always say at Maxilla, when people get mad at us, they get clinically critical. And when they get clinically critical, you are in front of the board. And this has absolutely happened to our offices. There was an office down in Texas that we worked with for so many years. I want to say nine? I was gonna say almost a decade, yeah. Yeah, nine, nine years. Still work with them. Um but but uh these guys for years, they had they had an ITC that was really successful, and then they had left, and the doctor had said, I I want to bring such and such up to do it. You know, I want to promote them. And we were like, love her, but maybe not a great idea. Let's look for someone else. And and he said, No, let's let's uh this is what I want to do. Okay, no problem. So we put her in in place, and within six months, yeah, six to eight months, like three board-reviewed cases. Um that comes from not managing expectations uh either either ethically, which maybe that wasn't so much it. I don't think it was malicious. Yeah, go ahead. Well, yeah, yeah, it just it was like I I'm gonna tell this person what I have to to sell the case. And it's like, don't don't do that. One, you'll sell less successfully doing that. Yeah right. And then also that can bleed into to bad clinical success. Again, it's not bad clinical success. This doctor It's the same success. Yeah, the years that I worked with him, I'd never seen him in front of the board once. And then one person is hired and now he's in front of the board three times in six months. No, that's because of bad managed expectations from the ITC. So great segue, actually, uh into our our next segment, which is yeah, which is um uh what makes a great treatment coordinator as a as a human. Like what are we looking for? Yeah. Personalities and and and characteristics.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

I mean, I'll use uh that's probably cliche, but definitely student student of the games, students of the game, right? I think about uh, you know, uh we have a really high-performing coordinator at one of our offices. Well, they all are, but one in particular, he lives, breathes, eats, and sleeps this dentistry learning. He doesn't stop, like we don't tell him to do this. He just actively, when he's not at the office, wants to learn more, sees things, brings things to us, says, Wow, I saw this. Uh I uh hey, have we ever thought about adding this to our arsenal of offerings? Have we ever just someone who genuinely finds what we're doing with patients, how we're helping them, not just as a means to an end, right? But as like, whoa, this is this is awesome, this is life-changing. I want to learn more about this because not because I have to, because I'm genuinely interested in this, right? Uh can't teach that, I don't think. I I think you just kind of have to find the person that that has that inherently in them.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Yeah, they got they have to care and and it has to go top down. Yeah, right. Your marketing company, you know, I I like to tell people, you know, people ask me what why did you get into in-plant marketing? What even is that? Um, and for me it's it's because you watch one true raw testimonial and it's like that's why.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

You know, the number of patients that come out of a dental office and they're crying because you've just literally changed their life. If if that doesn't do it for you in this space, you shouldn't be in it. Yeah, you're in the wrong. And so an implant coordinator that sees that and feels that and wants to produce that over and over again, right? That's the core of what you need. Right. But there's so many, there's so many more things you need out of them.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Yeah, I mean, you you also need someone who's organized. You need someone who you don't need to necessarily hold their hand to track what is going on in the practice. They're doing it automatically, right? Because that's how their mind is wired. Uh, some other traits that I'm always looking for is hey, are you able to communicate on the phone? You know, as time marches on right now, it's getting harder and harder and harder to find people who will pick up the phone and call and talk, right? Everything is text and email. And uh, I'm just gonna say this, and it may shock, you know, if you're driving the car, pull over so you don't crash, okay? I think email is worthless. I think it's the the lowest form of follow-up. Like, oh, I'll email you. Yeah. What I I have 21,000 unread emails on my phone. Uh one more from a dental office about a treatment I went to two weeks ago. Is that gonna be what gets me to move forward? Get out of here, right? So as time marches on, uh, it's getting harder and harder and harder to find someone who I'm just gonna pick up the phone, I'm gonna call this person. So, what am I looking for? Someone who is, I guess, relentless, not bothersome, not annoying, right? But someone who's not afraid to just pick up the phone and get into a conversation with someone.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

It may seem like, oh, well, of course. I have lots of people that like to use the phone in my no. When you have to call someone and try to refocus them or get them to come back, it's a completely different type of conversation on the phone, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Yeah, I I I you and I are together more than we are with our our wives, I think. Um and so I've been a part of so many of your your phone interviews, and I changed the way I do interviews and actually watching the way that you do interviews. It's it's kind of um fascinating. You just the person calls or you call them, and then you just sort of say, tell me about yourself, and then you just talk. Yeah, you don't ask a lot of questions. You you you kind of pass the baton to them and you sort of make them talk to you.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Yeah. Which is what I want, right? This is what you want, yeah. Right, out of the person, right? And this is really I'm getting way into the weeds here, but I'm glad you brought this up.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

I did it to you, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

I love it. So uh my interview style is very hey, I'm gonna call you at this time from this phone number. You better, you know, that this is what I'm doing. I'm calling you. This is for when I'm looking for people to be an implant treatment coordinator at offices that don't have one. And I don't think we've uh explicitly stated that. So I'll call. And the way someone says hello can can set the entire interview off on a terrible or amazing note. Uh uh hello? And I'm thinking, well, this is interview is over. Yeah, this is gonna be very difficult for this person to do this job. It's very, very, very difficult. Yeah, I told you my name, when I'm calling, the phone number. Yeah. Uh the most I've heard this. I I I've been on the car with it. Yeah, yeah. Uh you don't know this. The most recent ITC that I just hired. I can't wait. Uh, she she just started. I haven't even started training her yet because I need her to learn dentistry. Anyway, when I called her at that time, she picked up the phone and she said, Hey Jay, how are you? Wow. Instant. Instant. Could could that interview have gone south and gone to sure, sure. But she had my attention immediately. I I like to say, uh, someone that you're looking for in this role, or someone I'm looking for anyway, you want to talk to them. Which is hard to describe or quantify or or or describe how that works, but you you want to talk to this person, right? And uh you mentioned how I kind of turn the interview around and I and I and it's like, okay, I'm not really gonna interview you too hard. You let's just like see how you can keep my interest, right? Yeah for some people, they they collapse. They they they're they're very good interviewers when an interviewee is directing everything and directing the traffic and asking uh stupid pedantic questions like how many windows are there in New York City? There is an answer to that. There is an answer to that. It's only one. That stuff to me, I get it. You know, if someone's gonna be uh an accountant, I understand why you need to maybe ask them. I don't know how many pivot tables have you done the recently. I don't I don't know what someone would ask in a in that type of interview. But I don't know where that came from. It's probably after my very first job. But for me, I I need someone who can just build instant rapport, instant. Just I want to talk to you. Ooh, I'm interested in talking to you. What are we gonna talk about on this? Um, uh, this is a this is a year or two ago. Um, I I called, I started talking to someone, it sounded great. And I said, Look, I'm not really gonna, I don't have a whole lot. I let's just talk. And and she said, Um, I forget the person's name. I don't know. Some woman in Massachusetts had gone to jail for killing her her husband, having running him over with the car. She goes, Hey, did you just hear she just got uh exonerated? She's free. And I'm like, Oh my god, that's amazing. And we talked about that for 10 minutes. Oh, that's it had nothing to do. Excellent interview. It was because we just started talking and she she understood the assignment. She understood, like, let's just be cool, right? Uh I'll tell you whatever the heck you want to know about this goofy job, right? I think it's not actually goofy. Sorry, sorry, I said goofy. This very important, very, very strict job. But for now, let me just see the human side of you. Let me see how you're gonna be when you're talking to someone who needs $30,000 worth of mental treatment.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

So what a way to put that. Let me see the human side of you. Without the human side, the sale is just not there. It's transactional. Just a sale, right? It it's it is it's not there. And then if it is, there's an openness to be critical. We're not critical, we're not as critical of our friends as we are of strangers, or worse, people we don't like. Yeah, you know, how many times have we all acted like some dinner we had at someone's house was just phenomenal because it's our friend, but really it was trash, right? Uh this happens a lot. And so um we want to become friends with our patients. We want to show them we we don't want to make them think we care. Right. We want to actually care. And when you actually care, that will translate and then the sale will just happen.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

That's exactly right. I don't think any of our, I mean, they do ask for the sale, I suppose, but a lot of ITCs that at work in our network or I've hired, I mean, I I'm starting to the numbers are since I've started doing since I started my company and doing this, it's the numbers are starting to get crazy. How many I ITCs I have out there in the world right now. And what what you hear from them and what you find is that they don't feel like they're selling anything either. They just feel like, look, this is how I can help you, and this is how I can help you clinically, this is how I can help you financially. Uh let's let's just talk about that, right? And I feel like I've hit that point like three times now, but it's incredible how uh when you find the right person, like you find like a hardcore salesperson, and then you basically say to them, Hey, you actually don't have to sell anything, yeah, just be cool, and it will sell itself. The the good one, I mean, they just take it and they run with it. Yeah, I think of uh I'm I've got an awesome one down in uh Louisiana right now, and I stole him from uh in in insurance like world, and it hit him really quick. It hit him really quick, like whoa. Because I understand in his world that he came from, it's probably a lot of people aren't actually interested until you have to you have to get them interested in what you're talking about, right? Or what you're trying to sell them. And here he's like, Oh my god, these people just call and they're interested, and they come in and they want to talk to me. And this is yeah, right. This is amazing. Uh this is such a departure from the world I just came from.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

Yeah, he's grabbed it. I mean, I lived it. I lived, I didn't do insurance sales, I did insurance marketing, and sales and marketing are so you know, so close, closely related. I'll tell you that um you kind of feel dead inside when you're selling insurance. I believe it. No one gives a shit, right? It's just it's just is this cheaper than what I have now? Yeah, that's what it is. Right. Here you go. Yeah, here. And then do it sucks. It's just the worst experience and it's the worst thing to sell, it's the worst thing to market. Um so in the same way that your ITCs are sort of foaming at the mouth at the opportunity to be involved in this process for a patient that just needs to work and wants to work and to have, like you said, an endless inventory where we can help that patient. That is a salesperson's dream. Um, and it's also a marketer's dream, right? So, so um it's so closely closely related. That's tough for me to say. So I want to get back to something that you said because uh a keen listener would, I think, would go, wait, what? You had said something maybe 10 minutes ago where you said a you you you haven't spoken to this person in a while because you want them to learn dentistry. And I guarantee you, some some listeners went, wait, hold on. You don't hire people that know dentistry. That is true.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Uh, I'm not completely opposed to it. I have. It's I mean, technically, I was hired to be an ITC and I came from the dental world. I worked for some big dental companies that some of the biggest in the world at what they do at the uh when I work for them. So I technically am a dental person that had sales experience, but typically speaking, most people who work in a dental office did not or they they work in a dental office to not sell. A dentist doesn't go to dental school for seven to ten years to learn how to sell or want to get out of it and get get out of school and go, okay, I can't wait to start selling treatment. Hygienists don't go to hygiene school for I think it's two years, but I just read that there's some kind of accelerated program. So it's even less now. They don't do that to be like, I can't wait to go and get when I'm talking to this person, or I'm talking to them uh with their mouth open and I'm gonna sell them something, right? No, no, no. Most people who work in a dental office don't want to convince people to do things or talk about money, right? Uh so why would I go out and find people who know dentistry? I'm going to find people whose personality matches what I want them to do, which is can someone in a dental office be personable and be cool and give yes, absolutely. I'm not trying to disparage the everyone that works in a dental office, but what I can do is I can teach someone who has the personality traits of an expert salesperson, heavy air quotes if you can't see me, heavy air quotes. I can teach them dentistry. Sometimes I will be in a dental office and there's some weird gatekeeping that goes on sometimes, and I don't quite understand it. We forget most people who work in a dental office, they didn't necessarily go to school to work in a dental office, right? You know, I I think of um really cool a lot of Florida offices. I think of a really cool doctor down in Tallahassee, Florida. His two top assistants, surgical assistants, amazing, lights out, incredible. He took them away from the same restaurant that's walking distance from the dental office. He's banned from that restaurant. He's banned, he's now banned from that. They're like, please stop coming. We'd like you to buy food, stop stealing our employees. What does that mean? That means that that doctor took the personality or the, you know, saw something in them and is like, hey, do you want to try something completely new and different? Neither one of them knew a thing about dentistry. Now, when you talk to them, yeah, I know the millimeter, this, uh, we need twerk road. I the that was not meant to be disparaging. That was meant to be like, they're just geniuses now in dentistry. He didn't go to school for this. Yeah, he took the personality that fit him, his office, what he was looking for, and he taught them dentistry. I'm doing the same thing with these ITCs. I'm gonna take the personality that I want, and I'm gonna teach them dentistry. And um this is a line you've heard me say before. You know, uh doctors will sometimes ask me, Well, is it hard? I mean, they they have to learn like all these dental terms and everything, you know, is it hard? And I say, No, it's not hard at all. And I think about uh The Simpsons, the TV show The Simpsons. And there's an episode where uh uh the family is in the living room, I think, and then they're like, Oh, we need to raise money. I don't remember why. There's so many episodes, who can keep track? But they're all talking and they're like, we need to raise money uh for whatever reason. And uh Marge, the mom, says, uh, well, I could start teaching piano. And Lisa, the daughter, looks at Marge and says, But, but mom, you know, you don't know how to play piano. And Marge says, I only need to stay one lesson ahead of the students. And I say that to dentists, and and I'm sure some of you are ready to turn this off right now, thinking, I have no idea how this person is going to bring, how is AJ gonna bring this around? And the answer is simple. An ITC's audience knows literally nothing about what we're talking about. Nothing. Zero. We know it because we live it every day. If someone you hire is just slightly more informed than their audience, they're going to sound like a genius, right? Because they do know way more than what the audience knows, right? The the patients don't come in with all of this unbelievable knowledge about uh, you know, oh yes, we use these types of implants and we have many different types of zirconia-related teeth and whatever, whatever it is, right? So you get someone who's a fast learner or just can can very quickly understand, hey, uh, I get this, and I'm a lay person. So instead of saying, I use this example all the time, instead of saying to a patient, I'm gonna remove that thing covering your palate, it's I'm gonna remove that part of the denture that's covering the roof of your mouth because palate often means nothing to a patient, but roof of mouth means something. So getting someone who's not from the dental world and teaching them dental, they're going to translate.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

No, I I I think that is so right. And and I I always used to say, I wasn't a very good student in in high school, but but but uh I used to say the best teachers were the ones that understood how dumb we were and could, you know, talk to the talk to us that way. And and I it doesn't, I'm not trying to say that patients are dumb, but in this topic, we are not as knowledgeable. Patients are not as knowledgeable as the doctor, and how many times the doctor is trying to explain to a patient an osteotomy? Right, right. It's like bone graft and and the sinus lifts. These all sound scary, yeah, inexpensive, and long, and and we can say a hole, right? Like, and so I I think someone who is freshly Knowledgeable on what these things are, they can remember what it is to not know what they are, and then it just naturally they they they want to help the patient, and so it's like, listen, this is what the doctor is trying to say to you. So that sort of intercept um and then translate, I think is really, really, really important.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

It's incredible. And uh also they will I have yet to hire any ITC at any office where they don't become experts at dentistry in their domain. Do they know every thing going on with fillings or or I don't know, crown prep? No, but they don't need to, right? That's not what they're talking about with most patients. They're talking what they need to know to be able to get this information to a patient, that's what they become experts in, right? I don't I don't want them to be dentists, right? I just need them to be able to get the person they're talking to to understand why or the what the why or the what behind the treatment.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

Uh so we preach a lot about um implant coordinators. It's this is a full-time job. Yeah. And what I hear uh once I get a doctor past the idea that just my office manager can do it, you know, and I can get them past it, or you get them past it, then the next thing we run into is, well, we don't have enough for this to be a full-time job. We tell them this has to be a full-time job, and then immediately they say, Well, we don't have enough for it to be a full-time job. And I want you to speak to that. But before you do, I want to talk about in our office in Cincinnati. I really wanted him, our the coordinator there. We talked about him, I think, in our pilot episode or first episode ever. Uh, I really wanted him to be sitting with us for this episode. That would have been nice. And two reasons. Uh, Dr. Joe uh like was ready to kill me when I said, Hey, in like a week, I'm gonna take your implant coordinator. He's like, No, you're not. And I need him, I need him. Uh, and then also I thought he might find it weird that that we're sort of drooling over ITCs and in there he is sitting with us. Um, but we'll have him on the show at some point. Yes. But the difference between not having one and having one, yeah. This is the office. It was the second office we ever bought. In the first episode, I talked about how we bought an office in February, and then within a few months, April, we were like, oh yeah, we know we know exactly what we're doing. Let's buy another one. We bought another one. And I remember at that point, we were stretched a bit thin between our two offices, brand new startup. And and we just we were doing a lot of work over here, and we're doing a lot of work over here, and we we had not brought an ITC on. Now I know you were you were chomping at the bit the whole time to bring one on, but it was actually Missy in one of our meetings. We were like six months in, maybe, maybe longer. Yeah, maybe longer. And we were saying, you know, why can't we get this office? Uh we they were doing 1.8. We bought it and six months, eight months in, we got it to like 2.2, but we were like, there's so much more here. And Missy was saying, Oh, we don't have an ITC. Like, why don't we just finally get one? Right. And you were like, Thank you, Missy. Uh, and then we brought this person on, and the office exploded this year. They're they're they're pushing, we'll push 3.5, 3.6. Um, and actually, we just brought on a new associate, so so maybe even push over four. Yeah. So that's the difference. Right. So maybe today it feels like I don't have it, you know, but it's like chicken or the egg, cart, cart before the horse kind of thing. You're not gonna get there until you do it. So there's a little bit of a leap of faith.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

Yeah. Uh you just have to take it, you have to trust. And somebody who gosh, I I didn't know if we were gonna wanted to get into this, but the way that an ITC is typically compensated, it lends itself to they need to get they need to hunt and get people to move forward enough to make it worth it for them. So you being the dentist, being the owner by proxy, right, are taking not taking advantage. You you're sharing in the spoils of this person who your only job is this. Well, what do you think they're gonna do? Do you think that they're gonna wait and sit in their office twiddling their thumbs for the phone to ring? No. They're gonna ask Maxilla Marketing for a list of uh phone numbers. They're going to look in, run a report for the last two years of patients who didn't move forward with treatment and call them and try to get people back. They will literally find treatment and people to talk to in places that it's not that you haven't wanted to maybe look in any of the places I just said. You just don't have someone who has that time to be able to look into these places, right? That's what they can do when you have one in your office. They're just relentless in trying to again, not forcibly, but just relentless in this. I've got to get people in here to talk about treatment. You came here six months ago, I'm sure your teeth haven't gotten better. Come back in. Yeah, let's see what we can do now, you know.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Yeah, and it's and it's not relentless with an individual, right? Like you said, that we're not being annoying, we're not, we're not, we're not, we're not banging down their doors. It's relentless in the curation of opportunities. Yeah, right. I uh today it's a slow day. The relentlessness that you're talking about is well, let me call Maxilla and find out if they've got a list of names I can call. Let me call AJ and see what I can do. And I think that's an important note. You can't just go do what you've said, right? Like, I've been around you long enough that if gun to my head I had to do what you do, maybe I could do it. But I've never ever even had that thought, right? We just hire you in our offices because it's like, hey, just AJ is able to do this. And in and it's not just go listen to the five things AJ says to look for and then hire that person and then plop them down and it's done, right? It's not what you do. And it's it between Maxilla and and what you do, we're able to identify what is going on uh with an ITC and and then fix it. And we just had this, let's call it an issue. It is what it is, right? We we hired someone that you really loved a few months ago in the fall of last year. Yeah, you really loved this kid basically. He's very, very young. And then I went and met him, and I was like, holy cow, this this kid's gonna be something. But then actually in Q4, he didn't perform at a level we really wanted him to, right? And and we both felt really good about him. We then we'd said to each other, let's dig in. This isn't so important. You don't just get someone who's good, plop them in, and then oh, everything's cupcakes and rainbows, right? It's it's not. So uh we were able to identify, okay, where is this falling apart? Maxilla said, Hey, AJ, here's what's going on. You said, Okay, I'm on it. And we went down in February. I think you ended up going down twice in February, and this guy just put up numbers that are rivaling our best ITC.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Our two year, our two, you know, two-year veteran ITC.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Yeah, just incredible, just massive, massive numbers. And um, I I look forward to what else he he can do. Um, so uh I I I hope that this has been really helpful for our our listeners and in the expl explanation of ITCs. And uh I I think I won an AJ's adventure. You got one?

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Well, uh I had a fun okay. I had a fun uh fun. I don't know what the heck this is. Uh so years ago when I was an ITC, not in my current uh, you know, nothing to do with my current company and Dena plant. This is before that, uh had a really interesting uh case come up where a patient came in, really wanted the treatment. Well they all do, applied to financing, denied, no cosigner, looked into different ways of maybe being able to afford it or finance, or different ways to be able to get the money wasn't happening. Uh this is part of the relentlessness, I guess. I'm tying it back and weaving. So as time went on, I I I put people that are like clearly want it, trying to figure out how to afford, I put them in a different category where I'm not constantly peppering them all the time with follow-up. I just have them in like a long-term follow-up folder. So this went on for, I don't know, let's say five, six months. You know, we would occasionally I'd call, say hello, or I'd God forbid, send an email, something like that. Right. And then one day I come in and phone rings and it's this patient. And she says, uh, AJ, great news. Uh, I have the money. I want to come in. Uh, I I want to pay uh in full, because my rule is you pay in full before we do any of the implant treatment. Uh, when can I come in? Uh so that you can take it and we can take impressions, all that good stuff. I said, Oh, let's come in on this day at this time. Uh she goes, okay, so just as a heads up, um, it's all in $100 bills. This was $30,000 worth of treatment. So I decided, okay. We we have no problem with that. Yep, yep, that's that's great. Thank you for telling me, though. I went to the doctor, let the doctor know what was going on, and I said, Do you want to do anything differently? He's like, uh, yeah, actually I would. I uh we we this office was lucky enough to have two consult rooms. I want you in the consult room in the main office area, and I want you to to count it out there because I have cameras, and if you're counting it out, you know, it'll be on camera. Like I what he was trying to do is just say no funny business. Right, no funny business on the patient, no funny business for me. I'm like, you don't trust me, doctors like, no, no, no. It's like I get it, I get it. So patient comes in, uh, comes in, literally just has envelopes, all these old crusty envelopes, and I start opening them, and she starts telling me the story of how she happened upon them. And did you say happened upon them?

SPEAKER_01 54:15

Happened upon them. She happened upon $30,000. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

Well, it was actually more. It was it was it was in the 70s. So what happened is uh her brother and uh her she and her brother decided her parents could no longer live in their home. They needed to go into an assisted living facility. Uh so uh the they they moved their parents in, and uh the house was paid for. The the her brother and the patient, they're like, okay, this is great. We need to get the house ready to sell. They were gonna be able to take money uh from the sale. She she she said, like, I was all I was gonna call you and tell you that we I was gonna be able to get the money because we're gonna sell the house, it'll sell real quick, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, okay, amazing. Well, what is all this? She goes, Well, as we my brother and I start like moving through the house to clean, upgrade, whatever. Uh, we'd we'd go to a bookshelf and we'd pull a book down and an envelope would fall, and we'd open the envelope, and there were, I don't know, $5,000 and $100 bills stretching back to the year like 1944. And sure enough, the more they started cleaning, the more they went around the house, they just kept finding more and more and more of these envelopes of all this money all over the house. I mean, all said and done. I want to say it was between $70,000 and $80,000 and $100 bills hidden throughout the house. Wow. So she took that money and she brought it in to me and said, I the uh this is the only thing on my mind. Here is here is this, you know, and I'm counting it out. I felt like I was in a casino because I was looking at the camera. Like, see, Doctor, I'm not stealing anything, right? It's the house's money. So then as I'm doing this, you know, all this money is spread out all over a table this size, right? Uh I hear a commotion out in the in the front office area. So I'm like, what is happening? And part of me is like, what's what's going on? Does it does someone know that all this money's out? So I open the door, and uh the the door has uh glass paneling so I can kind of see. And uh apparently a patient the day before had had all of his teeth removed and uh was given immediate dentures, and he came back for his 24-hour checkup, and the patient was told, When you go home, please rest. And he, of course, did the opposite and literally went back out into the farm to his farm and started farming, and then just came into the office the next day from the farm, wasn't listening to anything we told him, which was relax. So apparently he he got his check, he stood up from the chair, and this is when I walked out of the little consult room and I closed the door behind me because again, there's the $30,000 and $100 bills behind me, and I see this guy. He's walking around and and he faints and literally put his head through the wall in in the front office, just just boom, took a header into the into the wall. Wow, is he okay? I think so. Well, yeah, we absolutely called the ambulance. Yeah, you know, a patient was of course furious that the ambulance was called because he well Oh, he was he was furious. Well, you guys could have you guys could have been. Why did you call? Why did you call the I did you call? I'm fine, I'm fine.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

Well, that story turned just like we were all this cash and then faint. I think you're gonna say the patient saw all that cash and fainted from it, just like holy cow. No.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

No, he he just put his head right through the wall.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Holy cow. This is AJ's Adventures. Thank you for the story. Uh uh again, awesome topic. I I love doing this with you. This is our our our third one, and I'm really happy to do it. And uh I'm I I love doing it with you. And if this has got any of our listeners thinking maybe you're ready for an ITC, maybe you think you are and you want to chat it out, um, you can call AJ, you can call us, we'll put the number or the link on the screen. Um, and we'll we'll have a conversation. Uh but for now, this this does it for this episode. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time. Oh God, it's another case closed. Ah, closed. I'm never gonna remember that. Uh once we have the gavel, it'll work. Thanks for tuning in to Case Closed from console to Crown. New episodes drop every other week. If you're watching on YouTube, give us a like, leave a comment, and consider subscribing to catch all of our upcoming content. Click the notification bell, and feel free to leave a review or share the show with a friend. We greatly appreciate your feedback. And if you'd like to reach out to AJ or myself directly, leave us a message at anothercaseclosed.com. Thanks for being here, and we'll see you in the next episode.