EP #1 - Dave Loves Jon Taylor and Heidi Ore

This is the inaugural episode of the Slacker Dave Loves Nebraska podcast! 
David Rabe the longtime host of the Slacker Morning Show on KZUM (89.3 on the FM dial in the Greater Lincoln Metroplex or online anywhere in the world on kzum.org) has decided to start a podcast and on this, the inaugural episode, Dave chats with Jon Taylor and Heidi Ore of the bands Thirteen Nightmares, Mercy Rule and Domestica about their friendship, teaching Dave how to live out of a van, being a married couple playing in bands for 40 years together, taking a nanny on tour, being signed on a major label, The Big Red Rock O’ Rama and so much more!

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:48

Hello everybody, welcome to the inaugural edition of Slacker Dave Loves Nebraska. Yes, I am Dave and I do love Nebraska. Uh this is my first podcast. I am uh hoping to be able to keep doing this for a long time, but you know, I gotta do the first one and then I gotta do the second one and then third one, and then we'll talk later. Uh but uh I'm from Wisner, Nebraska. I do love Nebraska. I love all things Nebraska. The podcast is gonna be, you know, music and anything else I want to talk about. Uh because uh life is good. For today's uh uh today is uh what is today? It's February Super Bowl Sunday, I think. Super Bowl Sunday. Super Bowl Sunday, it's like I don't know when this will be broad put out on over the world. It'll probably be, you know, March or something, maybe not. But uh 2026, yeah, just in case. So anything we talk about, you know, if it happened right around then, you missed it probably. But uh my first guest today, uh, I believe uh I wanted to have them be my first guest because they are kind of my my uh uh origin story in uh Lincoln's music and arts world. Without them, I would probably just be going to listening to shows rather than ever playing shows or helping with shows or working at things like that. But uh today's guest, John and Heidi. John Taylor, Heidi Orr. How are you doing, kids?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

We are great, Dave. Thanks for this opportunity.

SPEAKER_05 2:34

Oh yes, I'm excited. Good to see you, Dave. Um, so uh you and Ron, Ronnie Joe. Uh without you guys, I you know, you guys took me on the road. You taught me how to live in a van uh and sleep in rest areas and people's floors.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Almost almost taught you how to die in a van, too.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Yeah, almost killed you. But we didn't, well we didn't. But we didn't.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

No, no. So we're totally off the hook.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Totally off the hook.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

And uh didn't murder Dave. Mark that on your bingo card. Or Scott.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

That's right, and we didn't, nope, or Scott. No, no, both of those. Yeah, that was those are great, great moments. You were wonderful. You know, I think I taught you I don't stop. I think it was the trip to Iowa City. I was I was reflecting on on you, and and uh everybody had to go to the bathroom, but Heidi doesn't stop.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

No, no. Because if you turn off the van, it might not start again.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

That was always the main concern was if the vehicle would work.

SPEAKER_05 3:45

Also, uh gas stations for getting gas, rest areas for going to the bathroom. Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Right. Yeah, and I think we hit a patch of construction also, just to be fair. I don't think I was intentionally trying to torture anybody, but it happens. It happened.

SPEAKER_05 4:03

I'm sure I've done it too now. I mean, I've learned from the best.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

There you go.

SPEAKER_05 4:08

I have a I have a question on my radio show that I asked everybody. Um, like bands that come through, I like to ask when you stop to get gas, who fills the gas, who washes the windows, who does who's got their job. Uh, because uh I think uh John filled the gas, Ron washed the windows of the van, I think if I remember right.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

It was it was um it would be a tall person, so it was either Scott or it might have been Ron. Um, not me. I have a hard time even getting into the middle. I'd pay. So that was I think that was my rule. Yes. I had I carried the money, carried the keys. You poor things.

SPEAKER_05 4:54

Um well, I guess we should talk about the band. We're talking about Mercy Rule at the time. Yeah, this is Mercy Rule. You know, I guess we know what we're talking about. Early 90s. Early 90s, and before Mercy Rule was 13 Nightmares, late 80s, and before 13 Nightmares was That's my first band. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

That's my that's that's I was 13 Nightmares, nurse for old mess. I've only been in those bands.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

So random, random college bands that played cover punk rock covers. Spawning carp. Spawning carp, Pepsi Generation, I think, was all originals. Um, but it would have been drumstick era bands where ever there was this big suit of musicians in in Lincoln, and you would j you were just pop from band to band. You know, so you might have you know Ron Alberts in one in one band and then you know um Randy Krause in another. You know, you were you we all kind of bounced around until things kind of, you know, for for me, me and Ron and Greg and Heidi, that we kind of just settled on thir uh 13 nightmares when it all when the dust settled. Yeah, so yeah, you go till you s you play in bands till something sticks. And I think that was that was our one of the first moments that we got to have musically where you noticed a difference, right? When things were kind of working, or it seemed like oh, everybody's on the same page. And then for 13 Nimers, especially, you know, you that was isn't this is kind of a cliched thing. It's you things are going okay, you think they're going great, but then you get you're a superstar drummer, and then you go, oh, oh, that's that's what a band is. And it happens all the time. Like if you watch the movie, That Thing You Do, that movie is spot on. Go if you want to know exactly how it is to be in a band, that that movie's hilariously accurate. And that's what happened. I don't remember that. I remember we all noticed, you know, oh, Ron, Ron's the difference. And so that we that was yeah, 80 would have been college, you know, it would have been like eight, maybe 85, 86.

SPEAKER_05 7:20

Didn't you guys famously go through drummers like Spinal Tap for a while before Ron?

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Yeah, yeah, invincible. 13 drummers.

SPEAKER_05 7:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

No, there wasn't that many, but yeah, that would have been 1986. So that is um we were playing show 40. That's 40 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Yeah, we would have played a show like with one a drummer, you know, a show. Yeah. Never the same drummer twice. That was kind of how it was, or pretty rare and to do more than one show with a drummer, and then uh until Ron showed up. And then again, that's a that's another uh revelation that you have in a band. It's like, oh, okay, everybody, everybody's gonna show up for practice, and we have we'll have a practice place. So it's there are all these little stair steps into becoming maybe what you look back and say, oh, that's our first real band.

SPEAKER_05 8:16

Yeah. Uh uh and then uh and then your current drummer, didn't he play with you in 13 Nightmares for a show at least?

SPEAKER_02 8:24

He did. Paul Tazil, who is who currently drums for uh Domesticette, is was in 13 Nightmares. Uh he didn't last.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Greg didn't, I don't think that was one of the one show guys. One of the one show guys and he lived in his parents' house, in his mom's house for a while. He didn't even live live there at the time.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

No, he did. He was in the basement in a room in the corner. Like he would just emerge sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

We practiced in the basement. We practiced in his room. Yeah, no, it was like in the cellar, like the uh it was scary, but we're all that was a kind of for us, that was a typical thing too, was that we all the band all lived in the same place. The idea being that you'd rent a house or a floor, and then you wherever you lived, your basement was your practice place. Because I'm thir early on, 139 remember rented a practice space. And we uh we used we shared it with this band called For Against. Of all things. So of all things. And way out on uh Corn Husker, kind of like high, like uh uh what's the diner out there?

SPEAKER_05 9:32

Highway, uh Virginia. Yeah, in that neck of the woods for a while until we maybe a little bit of magic in that uh that that uh fry oil right there. Ooh. Uh so uh first off, uh John, where are you from originally?

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Oh, grew up in Omaha.

SPEAKER_05 9:53

Omaha.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

And then came to Lincoln to go to school.

SPEAKER_05 9:56

Heidi?

SPEAKER_02 9:57

I grew up in Seward, Nebraska, and then I also came to Lincoln to go to school. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh so uh so John, when you were in Omaha, did you start a band in Omaha or was it until you got to college?

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Uh wasn't in a band in Omaha, went to go see high school kids I knew in high school go to see their bands and uh a band I can't remember the name of, like, you know, there were bands putting out records even back then. So this would have been, you know, 80 81, 82, and that's just me listening to records and playing guitar in my room, and then going to see, hadn't got hadn't no jamming or anything with anybody.

SPEAKER_05 10:39

Yeah, and what I did then how did you did you always want to be in a band? Did you always want to play guitar? What age did you start playing guitar?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

I mean, I was it was like I should be a lot better, but after I say this, but I it was like 10 or 11, like a it was a great sweet spot because it was, you know, right when I started getting records, you know, right when I started getting like Cheap Trick and Kiss Records, you know, I I had been learning guitar at the same time, and a buddy showed me, oh, here's how you learn how to play, you know, play along with records. And so it would have been in high school, you know, just goof the same thing, just standing there with your record collection playing along. And it wasn't until, you know, and I brought all the guitars on, you know, the guitar and the records with me to college, and you know, my first my first college roommate, David Zickman, came from Kearney. And you know, and so I mean I wasn't in certainly didn't go to college intending to be a band, I just guitar is a hobby, like it still is. And and the funny thing about Dave is that he uh he was in a band in Kearney, and their entire band came to UNL uh to go to go to school, except for the guitar player who went like who went University of Kearney instead, I think. And so he uh he had their set list, you know, it was all covers, and we say he and I had the same record collection, and so that just big dumb luck of it that you know they they had a band ready to go, and I just jumped right in because we knew all the same songs.

SPEAKER_05 12:24

And what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

That was spawning cards.

SPEAKER_05 12:26

That was spawning car great name, great name.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yeah, so that was and a pr in a super typical first band, just you you don't have you're not writing songs yet, you know. But we were playing Dead Kennedy songs, the Clash, 999, you know, uh just circle tricks, but probably not even that progressive, probably like more like seven, like sex pistols would be late 70s, you know, you know, eighty early eighties punk rock stuff. Yeah, and and that was what you did. And we would play there, used to be a small diner snack bar in the bottom of Nyhart Hall called the pub, and it had an amazing stage, and you could check it out like a library book. A lot of times we didn't do it, we was just set up and start playing down in the basement of of this dorm, which people hated.

SPEAKER_05 13:20

When I was on the University Program Council, I did a uh dance party in there one time, and uh Paul Tisdale was the DJ.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

I'll bet that was great.

SPEAKER_05 13:31

Yeah, it was quite good. And Heidi, how uh I mean, how did you get started?

SPEAKER_02 13:37

So John brought bought me a bass guitar and an amplifier, and my first band is Cirte Nightmares. And um Greg and we used to live in uh in a house, Dave Zickmund and Wendy Mauger, I think were on the third floor. It was Greg, you, and me on the second floor, and then I'm trying to remember who's on who's on the first one. So we all knew each other, then the whole house. We would practice in our living room. I just yeah, so that's that 13 nightmares and those songs and me playing bass on those songs. That is me learning how to play bass.

SPEAKER_05 14:16

But you come from a musical family.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

So I come from you, so I understood mute. I like I I come from a musical family singing. Um, I don't really have an instrument outside of oboe, which I didn't play very well, and bells, marching bells, which I also played poorly. Um, what's what's fun about those instruments is that you can hear those over all other instruments in the band or the marching band. Yeah, so when you suck, you just drag the whole thing down. So I uh I would uh I highly doubt that. Oh, I it was bad. It was great, but bad. No, punk rock was definitely has always been my friend.

SPEAKER_05 14:58

I mean, I remember Dad's quite famous, though.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Yeah, my dad is a composer, he's an organist, Dr. Charles Orr. Um my mother was an organist. Um yeah, I sing, and bass is one note at a time, so hard could it be.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Yeah, we it's not like you went to bass lessons. Never. No, we you learned as a as I recall, you you know, we you I think you you and I have similar record collection, so we either you used yours or my Ramones records. And if it and so pro tip if you want to learn how to play the bass, play, go grab some Ramones records, and you'll be a bass player in about four hours.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

I don't think I ever played a longer record. That was later. So what I would do is that you guys would play and I I'd hum something and I'd go, oh, that kind of goes. And then I'd find it on the bass neck and go, oh, there, that's a bass line, and then I'd just play that.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

You learn on stage, basically. We didn't it wasn't right.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

I remember being at the drumstick and the the band that we were opening for, one of them would go, Hey, you'd you could uh you'd give uh need uh bass lessons. I'm like, okay, thanks. What I appreciate is my bandmates never once said that to me. So I really appreciate you, John. I appreciate Greg and Ron. None of them said, Wow, that that's terrible. So I was good enough for you guys. And I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

I think in most rock bands, good enough works for all the instruments.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

Well, there it is.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah, and people it's not it's not that tough.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

How hard could it be?

SPEAKER_00 16:37

That's the fun thing about rock bands. You don't have to be great to have a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

That's all true.

SPEAKER_05 16:43

Um, so 13 Lightmares, a little more about 13 Lightmares. Uh you just started touring. How did you I mean, well was there many bands in Lincoln at the time that went out and played shows? I mean, other than like the cover bands playing the weekend at the whatever.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

I mean, there was a I mean, there kind of was a model band. For us, for me, one of the first people I met, and you know, or a couple of people I met, I remember meeting Charlie Burton and Phil Schumacher, right? So not punk rock in any way, but they were, I thought at the time they were kind of the model band. They were putting out their own records. So they were just they were an indie band, no matter how you how you look at it. And they were putting out records and going to play shows. They were doing it a little bit different. They were this was a time in the time of I guess bars at that time where they had to take their own sound system. That was like the big difference. Phil would always tell me stories about, you know, they have they drive to these places and they would do the whole weekend, kind of like how bands back then would come to the zoo bar and they would play three nights in a row. And Charlie would do that too. And that's right, you know, they had a lot of songs. So they were kind of the model, and then we would go see bands, kind of sneak in, you know, when we were underage, you know, um, to the drumstick. And I I mean, I asked Dave Perner point blank, you know, after their show, how do you do what are you doing? How do you do this? You know, because uh after Soul Sound played at the drumstick, and he just said you put out a record and then you go go play it, is what he kind of said it. So you just go play those songs and sell that record.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Right. So there was that so the indie rock, so that you know, X would come through, REM came through, there would be these bands that you'd go see and read out Chili Peppers. And so there's this idea like, okay, they're doing a thing, they're going. But it was um Wayne Coyne from The Flaming Lips who we invited after they played um to sleep on our floor, and we said, How do you do this? That would that was our question always, how do you do this? He goes, I'll send, I'll have Michelle from Bullet Bull Jay Booking send you the list. So we got a list of places that entertained or would have indie bands play.

SPEAKER_05 19:10

And this was before the Book Your Own Life. Book Your Own Life.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

No, this is a place that's pre-that.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

You had to make your own list at that time, or you you'd get names from other bands. Right. And so we didn't expect to get that from Wayne, but they would but we it you know bugged him and he goes, and he didn't want to talk because he wanted to go to sleep. And so we go, Oh just shut up. I will get I'll have Michelle talk all night. No, I'll get Michelle to give you the thing. And so that's that's how everybody did it. You kind of um put together your own collection of where the cool clubs.

SPEAKER_05 19:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

And then once we kind of got an idea of, you know, we would go and just do kind of one-offs. We would, you know, play, you'd go to Minneapolis or you'd go to Chicago and St. Louis and Columbia, and I remember our paling or bangers, and they would set us set us up like a week of shows. And just because of where how she worked, she could call. The problem is that you have to send a pack a package, which would be your press kit that was all fabricated, and then your record or tape, or you know, at that time it would be tape.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

With a stamp.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

And then you'd have to call the club back 800 times to say, Did you get our stuff? Did you listen to our stuff? When can we have? And so it was pretty super laborious, it was terrible. You know, but you were just typically at that time, you're so into your band, you're just gonna you you just do it.

SPEAKER_05 20:35

I've been on the other side of that a million times. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah, because you were getting buried with stuff as soon as as soon as Duffies got on the radar, because the drumstick closed, and then Dave was smart enough to No, no, I'm I'm later.

SPEAKER_05 20:49

Who's before you? Uh well, Reg uh Scott Schultz was involved. Uh Sean Mashou had a lot to do with Duffies. Without Sean Mashu, uh Nirvana wouldn't have played there.

unknown 21:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 21:03

Uh so Scott Schultz had a lot to do with it, and then Reg did a lot on his own, and then I think you guys, uh my brain says you guys recommended me to Reg, I think is what I remember.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 21:17

I mean, but were you still kicked out of there by then?

SPEAKER_00 21:19

No, not we hadn't not yet.

SPEAKER_05 21:21

Well, no, but because that was well you were kicked out before.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

I I think Yeah, because that was 13 Nightmares that got kicked out, and then um, and then yeah, what and then without Greg in the band and then Mercy Rule, um there was never a conversation. There was never a okay, now you guys can play. It was just we showed up.

SPEAKER_05 21:43

I think I just booked you one time.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

I think you did, and then we just played and Reg just all right, never mind. And and then we just moved on.

SPEAKER_05 21:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

No, I'll bet we did because we you know, because you were I was doing the university stuff at that time. Well, yeah, and you had done UPC. I mean, and then you had had been in other venues, and you had you had the resume that a bar would watch.

SPEAKER_05 22:10

I I really miss the Culture Center so much.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 22:15

Uh Culture Center for people who don't know was on the corner of was it 14th and R?

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Yeah, it was between R and Q.

SPEAKER_05 22:27

Right behind the Wendy.

SPEAKER_02 22:29

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Between the university and Wendy's.

SPEAKER_05 22:32

It was a uh an old church place that uh was uh the greatest punk rock venue for a bunch of years in Lincoln.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Yeah, it really was.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Yeah, it took the place of the brickyard. Yes. When brickyard turned into apartments, then everybody went to the commonplace, and it was picture you know, picture a small church with no pews that you could indestructible space check out like a library book. Same kind of thing. From it was university property, right?

SPEAKER_05 22:59

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

And lots of yeah, tons of great show. It seemed like a show every weekend there, and no adults involved. It was, you know, you you reserved it, and it was up to you to take money out the door or not, and you know, put it all together.

SPEAKER_05 23:14

A lot of times we did them for uh benefits for like Amnesty International or Earth First or you know, College Now or you know, any of those benefits. And a lot of times the benefits were just an excuse to have a show.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 23:28

Because the university would allow that group to rent the space more like you know. Philanthropy was better than I mean there were so many bands that played there that really never ever got paid.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

No, well bet that's true.

SPEAKER_05 23:44

But they were packed places and paid for some good things, actually. I believe. I believe. Um yeah, about right then is when you needed somebody to guys go on tour with you every once in a while. And your guys' tours are the greatest. It's like what, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, or Friday, Saturday, Friday, Saturday, Friday, Saturday.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Yeah, because we worked. We didn't we didn't quit our jobs and like, okay, now we're gonna be in a band. We we were able to kind of with Wayne's uh, and kind of the idea was we'd try to play to get press in St. Louis because they had publications, Chicago did. And Wayne had also said, don't move because when you're a touring band, you can get a better spot. If you're the Chicago band, you're gonna get Tuesday night.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Oh, but you're touring. If you're uh from out of town, you're the exotic thing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

So now you get Thursday, the Saturday, the Saturday.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

You don't want to move to Chicago because now you're another Chicago band. But if you try to book Chicago and you're from somewhere else, now now you're the cool.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Oh, you have a better night.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

And and they don't know. You're now you're the cool touring band. You know, if you have a record out, you're on the you're kind of on the same level as everybody. Okay, you know, they'll give you a chance. Um yeah, we played a lot of a lot of shows. That'd be like the sweet gig would be like to do Iowa City, Chicago, and then drive home Sunday. Like the best cool thing would be like to do a Columbia, then St. Louis, and then drive back on Sunday, and then have the Sunday night show at Duffy's. I'd like that's your like the best that you can do.

SPEAKER_05 25:25

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

But it was always, you know, it was Lawrence.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Interstate 80, you know, down Interstate.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Like Kansas City or Lawrence, you know, we'd play like Grand Emporium in Kansas City. And then um, what was before? Well, the bottleneck, if you were lucky, in Lawrence, and then come home. So it was a lot of weekends. And so that was, and that that was tough to get past that. So just, you know, these little these little trips, getting outside of where you were known for. And so that was, you know, we would have, you know, so I'll back up a little bit. So Ingrid book us five shows, we went all the way to Kill Devil Hills, you know, and and played, you know, lots of days in between, you know, you had band breakdown, all the you learned those late 80s 13 nightmare gigs where where you learn we need every sound person. Yeah, we need you know, you would like decide what you wanted to do. You know, a lot of bands they would bring a merch person, and we never did that. You know, we always way back then, as we were transitioning, I remember, you know, just learning to not you you had to expect everything to go wrong. And it was a and you just you know set your brain up for that, that things were gonna fail. And so you it was always just about bulletproofing stuff, making sure you had a really your van and you had like a, you know, you had a what is it, you know, you had like a differential, an extra differential in the toolbox. I mean you know the children's book. You had the children, yeah. You took the children's book, you took tools, you had tried to have two of everything, and you tried to, you know, and learned all that stuff in 30 Nightmare. So by the time we got to merchy rule, we were, you know, everything is streamlined, but then we also learned that not for we don't need merch, we'll just sell, we can handle that. But it was if you're gonna be a super loud band, you really need to take a sound person with you. And so we would just, you know, Scott, we would take Scott, Dave went. How many times did I not know?

SPEAKER_05 27:25

Well, I went for a long time until you guys got too good for me because I'm my sound system theory was I went into the club and said to the guy that was working, or girl, I'm sorry, person that was working, uh do the sound, let's just set them up like you would do any other band, and then I would just wrote faders because I know what the songs are supposed to sound like.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Yeah. Perfect.

SPEAKER_05 27:49

I didn't I didn't mess with any any buttons or EQs or effects or anything like that. I just knew the song sounded like and the drums needed to be way louder.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

And that's a that's no guitar. So without knowing anything, that's like that's a huge win. Taking somebody that knows what your dumb band sounds like, taking them you know, on the road, now that person's making that audience hear you how you want to be heard. You don't want to drive all, you know, you don't want to drive to St. Louis and then just be at the mercy of some sound guy who says, Ah, these guys are too loud, I'm not even gonna worry about it, you know, where you take your own sound person, they go, hey, I know enough to not mic the guitar and I and just crank do punk rock sound, you know, with vocals only, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Like Sue Miller at Cubby Bear, standing in front of Sue Miller, who's yeah, standing in front of us and her, he's plugging her ears.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Yeah, and that but and that's another thing. Part of the group, these people that I was in a band with, we you don't show up worried if you're gonna make people happy. Like that's a that's a deal breaker and that's a band killer. If you're showing up and all of a sudden you drop all of your whatever dumb standards you have, right? And and to hope that to make a sound person like you or a club, because you know, if you're your yourself, and I mean that was our our move was volume and and our weird little songs. And some, yeah, a lot of times we were only playing to the bartenders, right? But those bar who's who's at the end of the night, who's who's talking to the club guy? The club owners, the bartenders, no, oh, all of a sudden we go from being crappy band from Nebraska to the geniuses who impress the bar owners, and then they talk to the club owner, you should have those guys back. And and so, you know, you know, the moral of this little story is you know, if if you think you're cool, you are cool. That's that's it. You don't don't worry about reviews, don't worry about people liking you at home, especially don't wait. And that was another thing. You do not wait to be the hometown heroes. Do not wait to be popular in wherever you live before you decide, oh, now we'll go on the road. But sadly, the people in your hometown don't know anything. And so just with all due love and respect.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Yeah, it to those who who are, you know.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Yeah, get your sound together, get it how you think it sounds, make it you play exactly how you want, and then go do that. And people will get that. Their earnestness is what that's very Midwest.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Well, that that is very Midwest. Like, because I remember seeing bands from the West Coast or East Coast, like you could tell Midwest bands, especially our little our little areas. It was it was people who are not used to playing for industry, they're not trying to get signed, they're not trying to have a career, they're just trying to impress the bar pre the people at the bar. I don't know what they're trying to do. I don't know what we are trying to do. We just had weird weird stuff, and we were just like, we just should do this.

SPEAKER_05 31:16

I I've told many a band, I'm like, if you number one, you gotta go to someplace three times.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Reasonable.

SPEAKER_05 31:23

And the first time, you have to make friends with the bartenders. That's the number one rule of any band going someplace is make friends with the bartenders.

unknown 31:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:32

Because as angry as bartenders are, they're still gonna tell their friends if you're super cool and we're nice and the band was great. Sometimes being great people will get you more shows than your great band.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Yeah, being easy to work with, not being, you know, yeah, just treating people cool, doing the Yeah. I mean, I don't think we made in I don't think we made friends with a single sound person ever in like in. It's hard to make friends with sound people, yeah. Because they're in there trying to make it sound like a record, and and our band was in there trying not to do that. So you're at, but again, we took a sound person, we took we took our buddy Scott, cut him in, he got part of it, he whatever we got paid, he got part of it.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

We paid you, didn't we?

SPEAKER_05 32:24

Yep, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

And so that was far more important. And but so we missed part of the transition. So once you get your sound together and decide to go play, that the for us the struggle became well, we we need a booking agent. And so you talk to the booking agent and say, Well, you need a record or you need a label. And then you talk to the labels and say, Well, do you have a booking agent? You know, and so it will and we went, oh, okay, this is all it all kind of fits together because the booking agent wants to make sure that you're on a label that will promote your shows. It's not the booking agent that does that, it's the label. And so I remember that was always a big deal. So when we first put our first record out on Pravda, then we could say, Yeah, we're on a label, and then and started getting, you know, we had like big city booking from Chicago because Pravda bands had used this guy. So that was, I remember that was a big being on Pravda or getting putting a record out, that wasn't even like the goal. It was like the booking agent was more important because we just wanted to play outside of the Midwest. That was like the oh, we just want to play more shows. We know it's fun, and yeah, and we knew how to do it. And so I could then yeah, but then so then once we find other skill so I think it was like a big city booking show or me or somebody. I mean, we play New York and we got on a bigger label and then got a little bit bigger, you know, booking agent. So we get then whatever big city I think turned into something else. So I just remember that was always the struggle is making sure you had a cool booking agent. And then that guy, we had great ones. I still have back then, I still have all the faxes upstairs of you know, we would do 30 shows in a row. You know, we have I have it's there's one on the refrigerator in there from that just starts out at an Albuquerque and then goes to San Diego and then all the way up the West Coast and back, you know. And that was like that was exactly what we wanted to do.

SPEAKER_05 34:25

Well, Mike Watt would say, if you ain't playing, you're paying.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Yeah, that's like, yeah. I mean, we we were we lucked out, we were smart enough. You we thought we were taking it seriously, and we still had jobs, but we had like I had the best band job. And so typically band job, there's a bit typically there's one band job, and that band job is called bartending. You work at you work at the bar in your hometown between gigs, and I lucked out and didn't do that. I was I that I wasn't qualified, but lucked into the guitar repair thing at Deeds.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

So it had the sweetest band, you know, band gig, and then Heidi had like a real state of Nebraska job that they were flexible enough and would let her leave, right? You were doing some some one-off part-time things, but then settled into that. So we lucked out this that's pretty unusual to have that solid of a job because all her buddies were did not have that arrangement, right? So we all are you know, everybody in Opium Taylor, everybody in Sideshow. You know, they're looking always in between Iran, even, you know, always looking for a job in between. So that was being in a band is a is pretty tough, just the music part. But I remember all over the country, all the bands that we would talk to, like that was always the thing. You know, they would keep in, you know, that's why they always wanted to play constantly. Because, right, they because how are you gonna pay for rent?

SPEAKER_02 36:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

So that was a big deal. That was, I remember.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

And rent was cheap. Yeah, rent's cheap and later.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

And that's why we live together. So the band's all paying$300 a month to live in a house, and that was the practice place. So that's another luxury of the Midwest that you don't have in you know, Minneapolis or Chicago or St. Louis, right? You're like you likely wouldn't get a whole house, you know, for 400 bucks. Not now. No, yeah, not even not now. And so back again, these were different times, and you remember pre-cell phone, pre-internet, and it was all pretty, pretty flintstones, you know, compared to what we got now.

SPEAKER_05 36:41

Flintstones. Um hey, I'm gonna take a break here. We're gonna talk to our sponsors, we're gonna hear from our sponsors, and then uh we're gonna come back. And one, well, you know, I'll be right back. Hey, y'all. I just want to thank uh Rourke's Tavern for sponsoring Slacker Dave Loves Nebraska. Rourke's Tavern, it's Lincoln's downtown. It's like a neighborhood bar right in the middle of downtown. We're at 1329 O Street, and uh, you know, Rourke's I've always described as kind of like the backstage to the Lincoln uh musical community. They do fun things all year round, they got specials every day, they got two pool tables, they do dance parties, they got a chili cook-off every year. So you just want a nice, relaxing time, come on down, see Jordy and the whole family down here at O'Rourke. Hey, want to give a big thank you to Rick Peters for sponsoring the Slacker Dave Love Nebraska podcast. Rick is an independent insurance agent, uh, AMS Insurance Center. The phone number is 402-476-3599. He's a great guy, great personal service. Amanda and I have been uh customers of his for years. He just real good guy. You just you want to come see him. But the most important thing about Rick is he is a host of not one but two shows on KZUM 89.3 FM. Uh he hosts Rockin' Bones on Friday nights from 6 to 7.30. Rockabilly and all that kind of related fun music. And then Tuesday mornings from 6 a.m. to 8 a.m. It's the Sugar Frosted Chocolate Bomb Diggity Good Time Show. And you never know what you're gonna hear on there, but you know, they call him Rickabilly. I like to call him Rickopedia. He knows a lot. Great shows. Thank you very much. Hey, uh, I just want to thank uh Pete and Amanda from the Zoobar for sponsoring the Slacker Dave Loves Nebraska podcast. Zoobar, wonderful place. Uh live music almost every single night, sometimes most of the weekends, twice a night. Uh Zoo Fest, July 10th and 11th. Put that on your calendars. But thanks, Pete. You rule. All right, we're back. Thanks to all our sponsors. Uh so Pravda Records uh for 13 Nightmares.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:29

The poster, the everything. That was some great marketing in that uh uh album.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

It was really beautiful. Shitride, uh just uh the black, the gold picture. Who's that picture? Is that Hudson Luce that took that picture? Or is that Bernie? Oh, that's Bernie. No, that's Hudson. No, the one at the commonplace the one in the middle is commonplace.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

That's Bernie.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

That's Bernie.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

The poster was from Bernie. I think the covers might have been from Hudson. A guy uh Cincinnati a guy we met in Kansas City, and I think he took pictures of us in He started in Cincinnati.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Yeah, just some person.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Yeah, random people. So yeah, though we we played Chicago enough to get on, get some attention. And we we knew about Providence and bothered them. 13 Nimers bothered them enough, and basically, listen, we record, we'll take care of it, you put it, you know, we'll make it, you put it out. And that's exactly what they were wanting bands to do.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

You covered recording and you know, and we put up all the money and then they just put their name on it.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Yeah, well then then they paid for pressing and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

I mean they did that though.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

So we that what you know that was the beginning of what we thought being a real band was.

SPEAKER_05 40:44

So last I checked, you could still get 13 Nightmares records on the POV the Pravda website.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

I think so.

SPEAKER_05 40:51

I think you still can't. Well, last I checked.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 40:56

When was the last time 13 Nightmares ever got a royalty check?

SPEAKER_02 41:00

Um, the one check I have from Pravda is actually still upstairs.

SPEAKER_05 41:05

We didn't cash it.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

We didn't cash it. It was for$30. And I didn't it's it's was that from day one?

SPEAKER_00 41:12

No, it was just a late one we got, I don't know, years and years later.

SPEAKER_05 41:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

Yeah, years and years. No, we never got we never got anything.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

I think whatever money they make is what is paying them back for making it.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

I guess they're renting.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

I do not believe there's a profit being just one, just because Mercer as soon as that band ended, we put out a Mercer put out a four four song seven-inch EP. You know, we and didn't we didn't see, we just wanted to get Oh that was Caulfield, obviously. That was that was and then I remember we just wanted to get something out and with a re with a recognized at least regionally you know label.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

So that we could reintroduce ourselves to hey, you guys had 13 Nimers, now we do Mercy Rule, here's this. And the and it really we just we didn't there wasn't a bump or it just okay.

SPEAKER_05 42:16

Which one was that?

SPEAKER_00 42:17

That was 100 miles per hour, was that seven inch?

SPEAKER_05 42:20

And then that was yeah, pre uh uh I just saw Red Max a couple months ago play a show. Is it not on the back of Randy Doctor's motorcycle?

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Yeah, speedometer photo was me riding on the back of a you know, hypothetically a person would contact their friend who had a big big motorcycle and say, Hey, I'm gonna get a picture of the speedometer at 100 miles an hour. So hypothetically, myself and and that gentleman may have broken laws, hypothetically, and to get a couple passes to make to get that photograph, which is a real photograph of what a speedometer looks like at 100 miles an hour, because I was there. And trying to, you know, this is using a manual photograph, taking a picture of being on the back of a Harley Davidson, and the speedometer was located down on the side, it was because it was a you know let's call it a chopper for and then it was a modified motorcycle, and and so that that was that. And I remember all that, so that's all that's pre Caulfield.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

Pre-AI.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

And then so what was the what was that first record? Oh, God protects fools, then was our that was so we were again, uh usually you know, you would there's always some there's always like a cool guy in town making records. Like it was, you know, it was it was like uh uh Randy Watson. Randy Watson. Well, you know, but like 13 yeah, and also uh Rick Morris did 139 stuff, and then Randy Watson, and then Um by the time we were Mercy World and Eric Medley, we you try to you know was the cool guy who had the coolest studio and then he we did I remember making God Protect's Fools and it was like right right after uh Nevermind came out and I remember having that record in the studio go make it sound like this and so if you listen to God Protect's Fools, it's all drums.

SPEAKER_05 44:30

Which one uh Dave Snyder didn't uh I mean Dave uh Dave Snyder, yeah, right? Yeah, didn't he do one?

SPEAKER_00 44:37

He I think we may I don't he might have done it done a seven-inch, I can't remember, not an album, but he he was another cool guy because he had worked, he was in the room working on Pixies Records.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

So he was another Lincoln just happened to have these real cool guys that would that had recording experience, and I can't remember what we did.

SPEAKER_05 44:56

I think he was an assistant engineer, and I think he I remember talking to him, and he didn't, he just took straight points for the album.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 45:06

And so he made way more than if he would have just taken pay to work on that album. And I think that's where his uh studio was all paid for by the Pixies, pretty much. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Yeah, he was like the incredible. He was like the first. I remember we go, well, let's just do it. He goes, We're gonna do it like the Pixies did, and then I would record a recorded track, and he's okay, do it again, and record a track, okay, do it again. I remember like doing eight tracks, you know, of guitar. He was like, that was the pro way to do it. We're just doing a layer on top of a layer of stuff. And now I gotta now I'm gonna have to go back through all of our stuff. I can't remember which which songs or song or record. Because I remember being in Studio Q over there, and it and he it was just a really fun, interesting thing working with working with him. Also, we're working with Eric. Eric Medley was uh luckily we he you know the timing was just right that we got he was kind of you know your usual evil recording genius, and really you know, I listened back to what we did, and he was never critical of any any of the stuff we did. He just let us do that.

SPEAKER_05 46:19

He did that for a lot of bands, like that yard ape stuff was brilliant. And you know, he would just he just wanted he in my opinion of Eric, rest in peace, Eric. Uh uh he just let the bands be the bands, and he would just like, what can I do to help? Not like you should do this. He would like, what can we do together? More kind of guy.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

Absolutely. He really was that.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

And this was all you also gotta remember, this is all on tape. And so this is pre-pro tools, you know, where it was either 16 or 24-track tape. I think for Eric it was probably 16. I don't think we did two-inch tape till later, because we wouldn't have been able to afford the tape. I so I had to, I can't remember what, or like when we I remember we recorded this was on the big tape. Yeah, but that was that was 24-track tape, but but way back when when we would record with Randy Watson in the basement, that was on videotape.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

Beta. Beta, yeah, because it was that was the cool thing.

SPEAKER_05 47:23

Yeah, I remember, I remember that. Where are these uh they are yeah, they are? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

Yeah, they're all sure. So we have some real to reels, 13 Nightmare stuff.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

No, it's all real to real.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

I mean, that's what I that's what I wanted to say. Oh, the beta tapes. We have those.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

Yeah, we don't have any, I don't think we have any two-inch tape.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

No, we don't have beta tapes.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Because that all stays at the studio because then they'd use it over they tape over you. So I imagine they, you know, that's that was the thing. Your option was when you go in the studio, you can have new tape or you can record over some other band. And so I'm shoes or whatever. If it you know, I imagine like Lu Giordano has the two-inch tape. Um he's probably got a basement full of tapes. I don't think he would leave it at a studio.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

At Fort Apache. Or no, he would have at a smart studio or something.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

Yeah, they because they couldn't. There's no way they have enough, that's a small place, they don't have enough space to have all that junk. I thought that's true.

SPEAKER_05 48:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so uh then uh and then uh uh Mercy Wall, you guys got signed to a major label.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

We did, relativity, and that was because most of that was because we had developed a following in Columbia, Missouri, which none of that in relativity is a New York label, and so none of it makes sense until you you have to connect all the dots. The gentleman that was the AR uh person for relativity used to work at the college radio station in Columbia. And so when we were doing starting Mark Attenberg, Mark Attenberg.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

So when we were gaining popularity in Colombia, and specifically those guys would do we opened for this band Uncle Tupola.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

Yeah, we got some good shows. We lucked out.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

And that I think that that there was that was the most people, you know, probably the immersive role light, you know, the the beginning with we had ever played for. But we had been in Colombia a lot.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

I mean a lot, but that that show, and then someone talked to Mark, and then Well, the the radio the current radio station people at is it Well, I'll get I'll get it wrong. So I have a I'll have to go downstairs and look at an old sticker on a guitar case at the radio station. Because I had I yeah, and so yeah, people people at the college radio station taught mentioned to Mark, you know, our band, and it just so happened we were playing in New York City, and then Mark came out to see us, right? For no reason other than somebody in Columbia said, go see this band. And then the way in we happened to, again, it all sounds like a dream, but we booked our I think we booked ourselves in this club, it's this place in New York City called CBGB's, and you New York City is exactly what the movies and TV say it is. It's stuff happens 24-7. There's no you if you go to New York City, don't plan on sleeping because there's stuff to do all the time. So, for example, you'll have the headlining bands will go on, you know, uh 11, 12, 1 o'clock. And so that's the place is packed. Yeah, so you'll be super excited. You know, we what we played with, it was like Love Battery and the Fluid. We got on the, we we got on this bill, but not as the opening band. You play after the headliner. So like we didn't after the real show, it was I I think the fluid headlined it. So they're done at one or two in the morning. By the time we started playing, it was three o'clock, three o'clock in the morning. And for some reason, Mark stayed.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

And a collection of people from Nebraska.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

Yeah, I have the photograph of like there's all these transplanted Nebraskans that all we took this really amazing group photo out in front. And so we had we played through at least 12 people. I just want to make that clear.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

If the sound person didn't like you, they just turned the PA off. So you could go 1800 miles out there, be super excited, but we we could not, I could not, I personally was so excited to be there. We just exploded. Yeah, it was a it was a great show. We played, I thought we played well.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

I don't, yeah, I don't remember a single thing about it. Uh we have pictures of us each we handed the camera to each person, so we have pictures of us on stage. I have a picture of the toilet there. I mean, of all the things to worry about, I wanted to make sure I got a picture of the toilet at CBGB. So I have that somewhere. And played this dumb show, and then Mark said, Well, well, let's have um breakfast tomorrow. And so, you know, jokingly agreed to this, you know, and we ended up signing with relativity. Well, once relativity started sniffing around, because every label was looking for the next nirvana, and once the labels hear one label sniffing at a band, then they all will come looking, right? So we had people from Mammoth Records come out, we had people from Caroline Records come to Lincoln. I think it was Carrie, you know, it's Touch and Code. You know, no, I think we want no, because they were way too cool for us. Uh, we wanted to be on Touch and Code.

SPEAKER_05 52:49

Yeah, what was the Super uh uh not superstructed? Um my God.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

Uh well super chunk or chunk.

SPEAKER_05 52:58

What were they on?

SPEAKER_00 53:00

What uh they were on that um merge. I thought it was or something like that. Yes, yeah, that we weren't cool enough for that. We play, I mean, we hung out, you know. I mean, at the time everybody wanted to be, what was Figazi's label again? Discord. That, you know, whether you were a punk punk enough or not, like, yeah, you wanted like I remember us wanting to be on Touch and Go. We wanted to be on Discord, you want to be like on the cool, and we weren't, you know, we I don't think you know, we weren't mean enough and we weren't poppy enough. So we were that was the whole thing with this band. It was being between, and I remember we would come back from shows and you'd go through the answering machine. I remember like Mart writing it down. Hey, 13 labels called that day. I remember like, because and it was just this feeding frenzy, right? Every band, just about every band got a bump up. Sideshow went on Fly Daddy or whatever. Remember, is that what it called? Fly, what was it called? Something, you know, and then all the bands from Kansas City, like, you know, I mean, Hustler of Sizes got on, you know, uh some big label. Everybody was signing a deal. And I remember us just going with the first, basically, because relativity were the first people to care about us, you know, we did we went with them.

SPEAKER_05 54:20

It's hard to beat Mark, too.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

And he was Mark was super delightful and fun guy. He let us stay in his house in Queens. And you know, he yeah, I mean, so super easy. It was it was easy and he was fun and they were nice, you know.

SPEAKER_02 54:35

Cheesecake was great.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

They had great cheesecake at the Monique Cafe, and uh, you know, it wasn't so much about how you know what the rec record deal was, but I remember us our dumb little heads trying to wrap our heads around like a seven, seven album record contract, you know, and so at that point you have to all of a sudden you go from dumb band in Nebraska to dumb band in Nebraska with a booking agent and a manager because you have to have people help you read these stupid contracts, which Oh, lawyer. Yeah, yeah, the lawyer. It's just hilarious, all going from zero to that.

SPEAKER_05 55:08

So if I were right lawyer, mystery science. Well, uh didn't he have something to do with mystery science theaters?

SPEAKER_00 55:18

Oh, maybe Mr. Larry Ottenberg. Oh no, uh what was his name? Attenberg, Larry Osterman. Osterman. And and he had well, he also has something to do with we we had brunch with him and somebody from Prince's band one day. You know, just you know, in like we were too dumb to know what we were who we were hanging out with. And then Brun. Yeah, something that Amelia we didn't know existed until we until we started having people like lawyers. Oh, what is this between breakfast and what?

SPEAKER_02 55:57

I think Mercy Roll and 139 Race, and obviously the medicine, I do we really got the full experience without really having the full. It's kind of a fun thing. We got to tour, we got to, we got a manager, we got to have brunch with people, and uh that's that's incredible. I mean, we we obviously it's not not been our vocation, but wow, what what a time.

SPEAKER_05 56:23

And not to mention, uh, you got to tour while pregnant, and right after having a baby, taking a nanny on the road.

SPEAKER_02 56:32

Right, we had a nanny on the road. Yeah, that was that was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

Um we don't advise it.

SPEAKER_02 56:39

No, it it uh for the mom, the mom hours and rock band hours uh do not cross. And so you'd get up really early with your baby and then you'd stay up really late with your band and not sleep at all. And yeah, sleep deprivation is a is a real thing. I think uh some of those pictures. Oh my goodness. But uh the child uh turns 30 this year, so she is nervous for work.

SPEAKER_05 57:10

That's not right. That's just not right. I remember John announcing on the stage at Duffy's that you were gonna there was some hockey thing, I think, involved.

SPEAKER_00 57:21

Oh, slip one past the goalie.

SPEAKER_02 57:23

Slip one past the goalie.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

Yeah, not and I remember not an eloquent way to say your wife is pregnant. But it seemed it was funny at the time.

SPEAKER_02 57:33

It was funny at the time. No, it was intentional. It was you know, we were we are yeah, we were intentional parents, and I think after after everything, after the tours, all uh after after everything, I think we got we got dropped by another agent by by Matt by who we yeah, put out a record on relativity and then they dropped all their bands, which is pretty typical, right?

SPEAKER_00 57:57

All the all the things Steve Albinny was warning everybody about that was was happening, it was exactly happening. And we and we knew we knew you know it's pretty lucky to get a label that would stay with you and let your band develop like it should over some albums, right? You put out it's like you're nobody's fully cooked after their first record. Maybe you'll have a hit, maybe you won't, but you you're certainly not you're not done yet. And that, you know, you have bands like maybe the poster children who picked a better deal and they and their label was behind them and let them put you know, develop and and get to be you know the cool band that they were. And all of our what happens at a label is that people leave and you don't have anybody on your side anymore, and plus it they just you know, and then the new owner says, Ah, we're not we're only gonna do rap bands now, you know, because that's what makes all the money.

SPEAKER_02 58:52

So it's all about and it is, so we it's about money.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

You know, so put on a record, put it on a record, relativity got dropped, but we had already entered into a discussion with our the guy we were gonna make the next record with. And that person had a development deal with MCA. And so we lucked that producer sit talked them and hey, let me record a few songs and you can see whether you want to sign these guys. And so that worked out really well for a moment, and we got to make got to make another record for uh, and this time for MCA, and then who after we were done decided they didn't want to put it out, which was part of the fun of being on those kind of labels. So if you were in it to win it, at the point you have an album but the label doesn't want it, you have to go and try to find another label to put it out. Now that label you just made cost money to make. So in addition to us trying to shop around um that record, they also had a bill to pay. So let's say that record cost 70 grand to make, which it did. And and then so now you're trying to talk, not only you're trying to talk somebody into believing in your band, you're also saying, and we need you to give us how whatever the purchase price for that record was. And we did that for a little while. I mean, we didn't, you know, we you like for months, not like a year, but if you're in it to win it, you you say, no way, we're gonna we're gonna find another label. And that's why you hear stories about bands having years and years and years between records, because they'll make a record, but nobody wants to put it out, and they got to find somebody to put it out. And then by the by that time, they'll go, hey, just re re-record it, even though you love it. So I remember trying for a while, you know, having our manager and having the lawyer try to find a label for this record. But we, you know, we I think we gave it set, we went and played shows and we gave it like six months, and then we decided, oh, let's just figure out a deal where we can buy it from MCA and then we'll put it out on Caulfield. So that was the Flat and Flat Chronicles, which was done by, you know, this major label producer, Luigi Ordano. And he he's the guy that had hits with the goo dolls and stuff. And so we had this really great record.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:26

Beautiful record.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:27

Yeah, and so we that we liked and uh end up put self-releasing it, you know, on Caulfield, and then played shows, and those would be the shows where we would take the uh very small child. So then it was uh Chevy Beauville Van with guitar player, bass player, drummer, sound person Scott, and then his then girlfriend, now wife as the nanny. And so we would go for one for for some of the shows. And then the other, some other shows, it was um Pat. Pat Necker. And so Pat so we had people basically we by then we had a kind of a set place to stay in every city. So at that point, we're not really asking for places to stay from stage like you normally would, because especially since we had a baby. So we had pla we had known commodities and you know known locations in cities. So it this is not it. So I'm trying to make it not sound like child abuse. And so the you know, we had we had safe places to go to in each city, and but we still weren't in hotels because that just it was just what beyond you.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:47

Sometimes, sometimes we would do a hotel and and then that started.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:51

And you go to the hotel or you go to the the place that you normally stay, you drop off nanny and baby, and then you would go do your rock thing and then come back. It was a the system was was great. But again, what Heidi said is that the rock band schedule was 10 to 3 in the morning, no matter how you whether you're headlining or not. It just takes that long to do the stuff, right? To load in, load out, eat, you know, do all the stuff. And then so mom's not back to the place where we're sleeping until you know three-ish, four-ish, and then baby decides to enjoy the world at six in the morning for five, you know, and so and wants to see one person, you know, who happens to also be the bass player and the singer. So that the we actually did that for a while until um until we stopped.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:46

And then I think Ron and Ron left for New York. And yeah, well, that was that was when Kira, then I was pregnant with Kira. So then we decided to have another kid.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Yeah, the kids kind of replaced the band, the same kind of juice, the same kind of energy and enthusiasm you have for music. So just for all the people in bands now that are wondering what parenting is like, I'll tell you, parenting is like being in a band. It's all it's uh all the fun, all the excitement, all the um, you know, it joy of being in a band is what parenting is. And so we real we, you know, it was an easy choice. Oh shit, we'll just gonna we'll just be parents. That's kind of that is a band. So all of a sudden your band is you, mom, dad, and your kid. And then we had you know, Kira, child number two, and so you kind of hang out and be that band. So once they were old enough to kind of take to watch themselves, then we came back to music. So once people are, you know, old enough to be unsupervised while you're about an hour for while you're down in the basement, then you can kind of you can come back to music. So it's for us, it wasn't you know, music, you know, it I guess once you're wired to make or write music, it's I don't know if that wiring goes away. Right? It doesn't, it I you you know, I never expected us to be coffee house musicians, and that's and that won't happen, right? I mean, we'll I you know the I think really the the goal now is to be like a we're gonna tour um senior living facilities, but super loud.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:31

People can hear you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:32

Yeah, they'll be so like it'll be the perfect.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

I can see that, right? I have to remind you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

We have no uh I mean you come over. There you there are no acoustic guitars in the house. So well, you know, so maybe that that's where it's headed. But you that you know, once once the kids kind of grew up to, you know, uh to a certain point, then you get right back into music again. You know, once you can have a babysitter upstairs with your child. And they our kids kind of grew up with the very loud sounds in the basement. So that was the norm for us.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:08

Oh, they didn't know any better. I do have a couple, we gotta just start wrapping this up pretty quick here. We're gonna have to do this again sometime. But I have a couple questions.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:18

Do you still have or do you know where the plans from the Big Red Rocarama class that you gave on building a loft in your van?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:31

Yes, we have those. They're upstairs. Would you like a copy?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:38

Yes, someday I would love a copy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just thought that was one of the funnest. That big red rock a rama was.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:44

Oh, that was that was amazing. So that was so screech all the way back. You had to teach everybody how to be in a van. Like you got really excited. You're like, oh, I've got this list. We shared the list that we got from the flaming lips and we copied it, like, here you guys go. All right. Vans would be in our front yard at Plum Street, and John would build the loft in the van. We're like, okay, I know how to do that. That's how he and Ron Ron drew it, but John, like, okay, this is how you do it. Then we'll put the lock on the back so nobody can get in there.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

And yeah, we did a so big red rock around was a music festival on East Campus. Yep, yep. And then the genius of this was people, people and bands gave presentation, you know, I mean how they do it. Yeah, it's genius.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:37

I was trying to make like a South by Southwest kind of experience in a weekend.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:42

It was a great idea. And and there's there's plenty of stuff to share because we don't nobody knows nothing. And so we would we so in addition to having like poster children played that thing, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:07:54

I thought one of them. No, they played at East Campus one time, but that wasn't that not for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:04

Yes, we did.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:04

And we had judges. Phil Shoemaker was a judge, uh El Kent was a judge, and uh uh what's his name from The Animal was a judge. He was not, he was not, I think he was at KFMQ then, but they and the radio station KFMQ uh broadcast it live over the air. Uh and then the winning was like uh it was the winning band got studio time. Nice because back then studio time cost money. You couldn't just go to your basement, pull out your phone, and record your band and have it sound really good.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:47

Yeah, again, no pro tool, so you had to have people who knew what they were doing. So we did put you gave a presentation. You gave a content. Who won the contest?

unknown 1:08:55

Nope.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:55

Who won? I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:58

I don't know. Great friends of yours. You done things on his label.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:03

Burning him again, the the the sideshows?

SPEAKER_05 1:09:06

Pioneer Disaster.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:07

Oh funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:08

Oh good, that was a good call.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:11

So we had presentations. Screen printing. So we taught people how to do how you did the screen printing one, right? So you could so you can so you're screen print your own shirt.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:20

Your own shirt.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:22

And then I did the how to build a loft in a van one because you need to have your equipment hidden. You can't just throw it in the back of the pickup and drive to Chicago because then you got no equipment. So we that was the cool thing. It was the instead of panels, you know, talking about the state of the industry, we showed people how to do really important you know functions.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:44

Get out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:45

Big regret of my life is I've I didn't save every poster I've ever made. And and things I've done.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

And you know, we don't we don't have everything we there's things from that big red rock a rama.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:57

I wish I had some of that just because you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:00

So what's great about big red rock a rama is you know bringing everybody together in this dumb town, this great town, that's that's the beginning of our music scene. So, like Lincoln Exposed is this weekend, and there's gonna be over a hundred bands, everybody plays. It is a joy because everybody knows what to do. They get on the stage, they get off the stage, everybody plays, they all everybody loves each other or hates each other, or whatever it is, but that is our music scene. That's what Lincoln is, because nobody's getting signed.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:36

I like the thing, I like to talk about Lincoln Expos. It's the only time that you're excited that the other crowd was the other band.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:44

Because, you know, normally like, how's the crowd? It was the other band, you know, seven people at watching you, but it's Lincoln Exposed, you say it's the other bands, it's like a hundred people in there, and it's like, you know, it's just a it's a good thing. I think the bands, I I like it. The bands are all everybody's happy, everybody's, you know, and that's it's democratic, everybody gets paid the same.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:06

I love that part. So some of the some of the things like big rock big rock red rockarama come forward are part of this music scene, you know, where the drumstick, where the zoo bar, where the where music in this town is not like other towns. Like other towns, it's cutthroat, or people, you know, are weird, or there's no weird I don't think there's any weirdness. It's great. It's fun. It's super fun.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:36

All right, last question for you. If you're gonna tell somebody they're gonna go on a weekend vacation in Nebraska, where are you sending them?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:49

Well, Car Henge is amazing. Um, you know, uh Fort Robb up in the corner, or Highway 2 outside of Grand Island. Oh god, that's right. That's a moonscape. Like you go, wait, this is Nebraska? Like you know, you have no idea that that's actually what Nebraska looks like. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:09

Like a whole state? Yeah, just we're going for a weekend. Where are you sending them? Just you gotta, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:18

The National Forest?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:19

Haldy.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:20

Halley because of the dark sky.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:23

There's so many options. So many options.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:26

John, where are you gonna go?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:31

Yeah, I'm gonna send them to the Goodwill Bend store in Omaha, which is the wildest of Wild West thrift stores. Oh, you gotta go there. It's it's uh the all the things are sold by the pound. So you put everything in your cart and you wheel the cart over to the scale.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:53

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:54

Like a dollar seventy-five a pound. So you can get so if you buy light stuff, you win. So you're gonna do that, you're gonna then go to Schlotsky's, uh Omaha's best restaurant, and then you're gonna come back to Lincoln, and then you're gonna go to the aisles and get a Leaning Tower pizza. You're gonna eat that, and then you're going to go to the Museum of Speed, which I haven't even been to.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:24

But I've been to the Museum of Speed.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:26

The Museum of Speed, I you know that uh just from what I've seen, and they have like you know, cool model cars, they have toys. It kind of cover if you like any kind of car thing, they had the one three-wheeled car that they had the the the Dale. They had like, you know, there was a documentary on the Dale. So go to Museum of Speed, and then yeah, if you're gonna do like a Western Nebraska thing, then I like nature.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:58

That's like and the sky. You know, to me in Nebraska, the sky is the show. And so anything you can do, which is literally just standing outside, you can go look at the sky. It's that is what's incredible about Nebraska. The cranes are coming up.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:15

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:16

The cranes are incredible. Uh the flat river is incredible.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:21

I'm doing urban stuff. So after museums of speed, you should have time to go see bands.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:26

Come for Lincoln.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:27

Yeah, yeah, just go go see bands, just hang out on 14th.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:31

All right. Well, thank you very much. Uh, I love you guys, uh, and I owe a lot to you guys. Um, and you know, I'll always come running if you just say, hey, bring some gloves and a shovel. Don't ask any questions, you know, I'd be there for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:46

You know, so good to know.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:48

It takes a village, Dave. And so it's it's all it's all of us. But thank you for making facilitating our wildness.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:56

I'm glad we're all still here.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:00

All right, thank you. Uh I'll uh talk to you guys next week. Uh, and remember, uh, be excellent to each other and party on kids.