Ep. 3 - I Was Wrong

After 11 years as a Physical Therapist and coach...here's what I got wrong.

In this episode I spill the tea on what I've changed my mind on after many a painful and embarrassing lesson. So let me save you the trouble.

The Nihilistic Valley, manual therapy, the four questions I now ask each client at the end of every assessment, and what I actually think makes a good coach or clinician in 2026.

If you've ever come out of school thinking you had it figured out before reality handed you a very different message...this one's for you.

Links:

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

My name is Jared Maynard. I'm a physical therapist, strength coach, and in 2023 I was lying in an ICU bed on a ventilator with a 50-50 chance of making it out alive. I made it out. And what I learned on the other side of that changed everything about how I live, how I coach, and what I believe is possible for the people who keep showing up. This show is for the coaches and clinicians, the people who give their all to everybody else and don't have much left over for themselves. On this show we talk about training and rehab, as well as mental health, identity, and what it costs to be the kind of person who keeps showing up when the going gets tough. This show is meant to be your companion on the road. So come along. This is Unbreakable. Welcome back to episode three of Unbreakable with yours, truly, Jared Maynard. So I put it to a vote as for the topic of this episode, and I am nothing if not a slave to the people. Now, what did you want to hear? You did not want to hear my biggest influences as a coach or PT. Actually, that's not true. Some of you did. That's not what won, nor did the option of what my biggest lessons have been working as the coach for coaches and clinicians. No, you want me to spill the tea. You want to hear all of my deep dark secrets of how I've messed up over the last 11 years. More specifically, you want to see what I've changed my mind on as a coach and clinician. And I hope you're happy because that's exactly what we're about to do. Now, obviously, I wouldn't have put that as an option if I didn't actually want to talk about that. Because if you're anything like me, you clearly care a lot about your patients and your clients. You do everything that you can. I mean, shoot, you've studied and worked for many, many years through undergrad and graduate school and your career to this point. And you keep working because your people deserve it. You also very likely have encountered situations where something that you held very dear, something that you thought was common knowledge, that you thought was settled science, wasn't so settled. I've definitely had those experiences. And I've had to confront them in often painful ways. And we're going to explore maybe three or four of them. There are more than three or four of them over the last decade plus, but I've picked out the key ones that I think mattered the most and will serve you the best. So strap in and prepare to experience the death of my ego in real time because we're going to dive into how I've messed up. Also, the fact that I've, this is take number three. This is going to be the one. This is going to be the one because I'm not going to let my perfectionism stand in the way. This is my commitment to you in real time. Let's do it. Okay, so. What is the Nihilistic Valley, Jared? Well, it's not a place that you'd like to build a summer home. Anybody who's a fan of the Princess Bride, that one's for you. Never forget the fire swamp. But no, the Nihilistic Valley is the experience that many of us, if not most of us, have had. We're coming out of school where we are bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, we are ready to get into the world, change some lives, we are newly minted as coaches and chiropractors and massage therapists. Maybe we've got our C S C S, whatever the case is, we're ready. We're going to change the world. We're going to live our dreams. And then you start encountering the fact that many of the things that you thought, like how you could specifically palpate joints and spinal segments. And you had all these special tests that if you just deployed in the right order, in the right circumstances, you would then unlock the secret code for the perfect treatment plan for that person. You would change their life and they would forever grovel at your feet. They would build a shrine to you in their home. They would tell everybody near and far with the same fervor as people talked about breaking bad aka the greatest show on television ever. Or maybe that was just me. But my case was coming out of PT school, thinking these things, and then starting to encounter the research on pain science and natural history of injury and pain. As in, people would get better after, or people with low back pain would get better on their own in what, six to sixteen weeks, six to twelve weeks, something like that. Which begged the question well, why am I part of the picture for my clients with back pain? What am I really doing? Same thing with specificity of tests and palpations, or even what does spinal manipulation do? What does ultrasound do? What does acupuncture do? What do any of these things do that we took tests on? We had to memorize these particular pathways. And uh, you know, this would modulate the pain gate, and this would modulate substance P, and this would therefore make people have less pain. Therefore, it's a viable therapeutic option. And then encountering not only research, but also people in the evidence-based rehab spaces saying, this is bullshit. And remember what I started with. You and I give a damn about our people. I would hope. Otherwise, why are we even in this profession? It's not the quick way to get rich. So if that's why you're in it, uh reevaluate your life immediately. But you care about people. So if you're confronted with this tension of what you thought was true and now what you're being told is true, or what is, you know, just not substantiated, that leaves you with questions. And not only questions, but you have to wrestle with those questions or compartmentalize them and shove them deep down because you have Dorothy coming in in five minutes for her appointment. There are still people who show up and need you. So when did I shift? When did I get out of the nihilistic valley where I thought that nothing mattered? When I was making jokes and hearing jokes from my friends saying, hey, we're gonna open our own clinic and we're gonna call it regression to the mean, and we're gonna see people a grand total of once because Mother Nature is gonna do her thing, and that's all we're good for. Ha ha ha ha. We were crying on the inside. When did that all shift? There wasn't a singular moment, no singular patient case, no singular point in my clinical timeline that I can point to. But there are two patient cases that I'm gonna tell you about where I screwed the pooch. And these were catalysts for me changing my opinion on it. I remember one of the patients' names. I don't remember the other. We're gonna start with the nameless one. She, I believe, came in with some chronic back pain. And the way that I found out that I had screwed the pooch here was she left a one-star review on the clinic's Google page. She didn't use my name, but I recognized hers and I knew she was my patient. She said, All this guy did was talk for an hour. I got no answers, and he wanted me to come back in for more visits. All they want is your money. Ooh. I thought that went way differently than she did. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how I thought it went. She thought it went terribly. That's what counts. And this was occurring during the period of time where I was in the nihilistic valley, and I was all about, you know, letting the patient talk for a bunch of time during the subjective history. I still am about that for the record. Um, and then after doing my objective, I didn't have a whiteboard that I could use, but I would bring in my clipboard and I would write down the diagnosis that I thought was going on. Uh, I would write down resources that I was going to give the person. I would write down what I think they need to know and the treatment plan and just write it all out. And I thought I was doing right by people, right? I wanted to educate them. I wanted to empower them, to give them the tools, to share what I knew or what I believed and what I thought was going to help them. In the same breath, looking back honestly, I was stroking my own ego, bro. I was. This was me being like, look how much I know. Let me lay it out for you. And that woman did not feel heard or seen. And that was the fatal flaw. It didn't matter worth a damn how much I knew or what the latest research paper was that I had read, and if I could quote it or give you citations or talk about other rehab influencers that I thought were great and were going to help you. If you, or more specifically, if she didn't trust me, if she didn't believe that I gave a crap about her and that I took the time to listen and continued to listen and saw her as a person and cared about helping her achieve what she wanted, nothing else mattered. No shit, she left the clinic thinking that all I wanted was her money and more visits. The patient whose name I do remember was a different presentation. She had something to do with her calf or her foot, maybe some Achilles tendinopathy, something in that general region. But similar in that I saw her for the assessment and then she didn't come back in. So multiple weeks later, maybe six weeks or so, I was sitting down at my desk going through my attrition list, people who hadn't been in the clinic for a period of time, and I was giving them a ring on the phone. I called this woman and I said, Hey, it's been a while. Wanted to check in on you and see how you're doing. She was pissed at me. She said, You said this was going to be better in two to four weeks, and it's not. Uh, I was taken aback. I'm I'm I'm yeah, I apologize. And I eventually tried to ask if she wanted to come back in. No, I don't. Hung up on me. And same experience where I thought it went a lot better, and I was so dead wrong because she did not feel seen or heard. The trust and relationship was not there. And I was ego stroking, even though I was trying to help. I was also stroking my own ego. So these are not the only examples of clients or patients where I dropped the ball, but they are two that stick with me. They are two that got away and that I think about from time to time. It was after this period of time where things shifted because they had to. I realized that while I was helping a good number of people, and a good number of people were getting better, there were still these people who were not. And most importantly, they weren't getting better because I was doing everything possible in my power to serve them. There was a lot of room to grow. So maybe you relate to some of this. This tension of, man, what I thought was true, I'm now being told is not, by people that I respect who have been doing it longer than I have, by research, and I still have these people coming in who I want to help, clearly. How do I do that? What do I actually do? If that is where you are, Ditto, here's what I think matters now. I think it does matter that we strive for excellence and skill proficiency in our knowledge, in our craft, like our therapeutic treatment, our assessment, our programming. I think it matters that we keep trying to be better there. But I don't think it matters as much as recognizing that trust and relationship and communication are the foundational elements of any client or patient relationship. Um why do I think this? Because humans ain't machines. We are not neat, tidy, you know, cars or robots. We are squishy meat sacks with emotions and fears and life circumstances and prior experiences. And if there's something that the research tells us about pain and meaning, it's that these things matter and they are complicated. So when somebody comes in to see you, whether you are a clinician, whether you are a coach, wherever this happens in your life, I think it matters first that the person sees that you care. The old saying goes, they don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. I think that's true. And how do you show them that you care? You take time to listen. You ask good questions, you clarify when needed. Also, I said a few times that I was stroking my ego. And the way that you show somebody really that you care is that you put your ego aside. What does that look like? That looks like saying, I don't know. That looks like saying, Oh, I haven't heard of that before. Can you explain that? It looks like saying, can you tell me more of what you mean by that? That means when somebody challenges an idea that you have, you don't respond defensively. And look, man, that stuff ain't easy. I still have to work intentionally at it. Um and I think it's important. You know? So trust and relationship and communication, they're the foundational components, and they go hand in hand with striving to do the best job that you can to help people. That might sound kind of vague, and if it does, I'm with you, right? I still think that's the foundation. That's where I've landed. Uh and it leads into the second thing that I've changed my mind about, which is manual therapy. Actually, before I get there, last note, because I'm bouncing over here to my iPad to remind myself of the things I want to say. Um, I think what people want when they're dealing with pain or injury, when they're coming to you for help, even knowing as we do that, yeah, things are probably going to get better over time in general, that's a great thing. People still want and need someone to journey with them on the path. They want and need someone who's going to help reassure them when they're scared. They want and need someone who's going to help them be consistent with the actions that they need to take to get where they want to go. And what does that look like? When it comes to tissue healing, if they have an injury, cool. They need to make sure that they keep moving, or we need to help them keep moving, to let the area heal, to uh continue to train and maintain the qualities that they need for the rest of their life slash goals, which means strength, means mobility, means endurance. And based on where they want to be, if they've got athletic endeavors, cool, that's where we perform our needs analysis and figure out where are they now? Where do they want to be, what needs to change, what's the simplest way to get them there. And consistency is the glue that holds it all together. People, people by and large, know what they need to do. That's certainly true for coaches and clinicians, most of the people that I work with as clients. It's also true for the general population. But they're overloaded and busy, and they just need someone to give them some clarity. More than that, they need a human that they believe cares about them to tell them, hey, look, I know shit is scary right now. We're gonna get you through this. It may not be smooth, it may not be as fast as you want, but I've been here before. And here's what we're gonna do. On the bad days, let me know, I will be here with you. We will figure it out. If that is communicated, that can change everything. Doesn't make everything easy, but it does change everything in my experience. So, with that, now my allergies are acting up. Excuse me. Uh, we're gonna get to manual therapy because you may also have experienced what I did, where people uh on the internet, people who you respect, would say things like, manual therapy sucks. And the message that I received was sorry, backtrack, manual therapy sucks, because we are not specifically releasing adhesions. We are not adjusting or putting back into place joints that were misaligned. Uh, we are lying to people with the mechanisms that we are proposing are at work here. So don't do it. Otherwise, you're a bad person. That was the message I interpreted, even if those weren't all the words that were used. Many of them were, not the bad person part. Um, but there's plenty of criticism being leveled at people who use manual therapy, uh, especially in the circles that I ran in, from people who I respected, clinicians who had been at it longer, people who had a high degree of epistemic responsibility and advocated for that, i.e., how do you know what you know? That is important. I still believe that matters a lot. We have that responsibility to ourselves and to our people. But this created a problem for me because the first clinic that I worked at was a mill. So I didn't have a lot of time to work with people and to train them. We also didn't have a whole hell of a lot of equipment either. The model was built around manual therapy and modalities and then delegating to PTAIDs. So, you know, you kind of had to go with the flow in large part, especially when things were busy. When I left that one to go to the next clinic, I was again the black sheep. This is during the Nihilistic Valley. This is where I started to be the rebel with a cause, where I wouldn't wear my polo and khakis. I'd wear my Lululemons and my t-shirt, you know, my powerlifting championship t-shirt or something else, uh, you know. And I would spend a lot of time exercising with people. And again, many people got better. Is it because I was magical with my exercise prescription? I would say no. I would say the exercise prescription made sense for people, but we're talking about manual therapy now. So many people would come in wanting manual therapy. They'd want an adjustment. They would want me to do some soft tissue work. Uh, they would have previous experiences with other clinicians, some of whom were at the same clinic, who did that and it felt good and they want to feel good. And can you blame them? Who doesn't want to feel good, you know? Um, but I had this inner tension where I would dread the moment where someone said, Hey, I just really want you to massage my neck, or I really want you to do some some hands-on work for my back. Uh, it also applied to modalities. Hey, I really want some ultrasound for my shoulder. Because in my head, I have all these voices of people who I want to earn the respect of and try to be like. And if I do those things, I'm a bad clinician. I'm wasting time and effort that otherwise could be spent in a better way that would help the person. And I struggled with that for a long time. What shifted? Well, what shifted is now I no longer believe that there is a moral judgment placed upon you as a coach or clinician, whether you choose to use manual therapy or modalities or any therapeutic intervention of your. Choice. I see most of these interventions. I'm going to limit this discussion to the mainstay interventions you would probably see in clinic: manual therapy, electrostem, acupuncture, cupping, scraping, things like that. I'm not going to include things beyond that typical scope right now. I see most of these as neutral. And that said, I still believe that there is likely a hierarchy of things that are going to be the most valuable for you and for your patients. I also believe our epistemic responsibility doesn't go away. Specifically, we owe it to our people who are spending time, money, they are trusting their health and their livelihood and their time, which they don't get back. If they're giving us time, I think we damn well better make it a good exchange as best we can. Which means being honest about what we can do and what the intervention is doing. That means not holding out these narratives that we can't support. We can't deform fascia. We've got physical studies that look at how much force it takes. And if we could deform fascia and connective tissue with our hands, we'd all have big old dents from barbells and our butts would be flat from sitting. Does that mean that manual therapy can't feel good when you got a bunch of tension? Hell no. That's why my wife asks me to massage her neck and shoulders when she has a tension headache. These things do make changes. There is this interplay between the nervous system and the tissues, and might be different mechanisms. Maybe it's greater tolerance of noxious stimuli, so there's less stiffness or pain in an area after we address it or use acupuncture or dry needling, or we use a foam roller, or you know, hands-on soft tissue release. Maybe they can just tolerate more and they feel better. Fair enough. Maybe it is a downregulation of the nervous system and guarding. Maybe it's having to do with de-threatening certain positions or movements. We do know that when it comes to pain, meaning and threat matter a lot. If we can get people to feel safer, that matters a lot. How does this tie into trust and relationship and communication, which I've told you, I believe, are the foundation. If somebody comes in asking for manual therapy, they want some work on their upper traps and their low back. Uh, and I am to sit there and say, No, we're not going to do that. How would you feel if you were my patient? If I just throw out the thing that you told me that you want? Versus if I said something like, got it, okay. Uh is that one of the things we need to do by the time we're finished today for you to feel like this was a good use of our time? Yes. Okay. So long as I'm not doing harm, which I believe is a line that cannot be crossed. You know, we're not medical doctors, but the Hippocratic oath I think applies anyway, do no harm. So if I'm not doing anything that's going to cause harm, I think that's fine. And if I say, got it, we can do some manual therapy. Are you open to talking about how that maybe plays into the bigger picture and what else I think is going to really help you get over this pain or get towards your goals? And if the answer is yes, great, there's my door. We get to talk about it. But I'm not injecting or overriding their wishes with my ego because I think I know better. Granted, I am the expert, as are you. People are coming to you because they want you to tell them what you think. So do that. Don't be a dick about it. You know what I mean? And trust me, this is coming from the guy who's been a dick unintentionally many times. So I don't think there's any moral judgment on you or anybody else if you use manual therapy or you cup or you scrape. You know, I'm definitely, I have my biases, as does everybody. I bias towards more active interventions. And now I don't work in clinics, I work entirely online. Uh, so there's mostly the active approach. But, you know, my team and I still prescribe mobility drills. We still prescribe self-soft tissue release. We will still ask or advise people or encourage them, hey, look, uh, do you have a local PT that you can go see or a massage therapist? I think that would be really helpful at the points in time where it makes sense. We have local PTs that we refer out to. At the end of the day, I think it matters that again, we care to learn who this person is, what's going on, where do they want to be, what do they think they need, and then cross-reference with what you think they need. And then lead as best you can. You cannot force somebody to do anything. It they have agency and autonomy. But again, we have responsibility to lead them as best we can and to be the best stewards of their time and money and health as possible. Two down. One or two to go, as far as what I've changed my mind on. You want to hear more of the T of how I messed up? Because that's what leads into this one. There were four questions that I asked every patient at the end of every assessment uh for the last year or two years of two years of working in person before I went fully digital. I landed on the fourth question by screwing something up on my second day of work at a new clinic. Uh stay tuned because I've actually already said that question in the last few minutes. See what I'm doing? I'm hooking your interest so you keep listening. Oh, the attention attention economy. Anyway, second day of a brand new clinic, and this client comes in who is a clinician herself. She had seen the clinic director, who's one of the managing partners of this facility before. But this day she was coming to see me. She was dealing with an acute flare up of low back pain. She worked with a sports team, she was traveling back with them, her back flared up after the bus ride or plane ride or whatever it was on the way back, came in wanting help. And she was fully expecting and wanting and vocalizing that she wanted manual therapy. But again, as I shared with you, I have been on this journey of manual therapy bad. Don't use manual therapy. Um, or at least use as little of it as possible and spend more time doing things that are higher value. So on this particular day, I went through this objective, figured I had a good picture of what was going on. We did some manual therapy, some soft tissue work on her low back, kind of felt a little better, and then got into some active work, gave her some exercises to do at home, and wrapped up the session by asking, hey, you have any questions for me? Does everything make sense? You with me on this? And she goes, Yep, no problem. Uh and I think I don't know if it was the same day. This was a Friday. Uh I noticed at some point she didn't book in any more sessions. But I think it was Sunday evening, I got an email from my new boss, the clinic director, saying, Hey, I got this email from so-and-so, that patient. It was not a nice email. She was very upset at her experience. She felt unseen, unheard, like her time was wasted. I thought I was gonna lose my job. I thought I was getting fired on the second day. Your boy was not feeling confident at all. Uh the clinic director was able to handle it, you know, some good PR skills, and you know, he made it right with the with the patient. Um, and then he and I talked about it afterwards. So, this is what led to a really important question, which was one of four that I ended every subjective assessment with. The first one was, what do you think is going on right now? And people gave me one of two responses. One was, they told me what they thought was going on. And the second was, I don't know, that's why I'm here to see you. To which I would laugh and say, Yeah, that's fair. I'm gonna tell you what I think here in a second. I just always like to ask. Question two is what do you think we need to do to fix this? If you've grown around the evidence-based rehab world, you might bristle at the word fix because we're not fixers, man. I get it. I use that word intentionally because for the vast majority of people, they want this problem fixed. They view us as fixers. And not to say we have to view ourselves that way, but I think it's important to meet people where they're at. And it helps get me information that I want. What do you think we need to do to fix this? If they have an idea, they're gonna tell me. Well, I think, you know, my doctor said I need to do this, and ChatGPT said I need to do that. Chat GPT didn't exist at the time, but bear with me. Um, and not to say that I'm going to immediately do all of the things that they mention, but it helps me understand where they are at. Because what did we say? What did I say is the foundation of all of this: trust and relationship and communication. This is building, this is communicating to build the trust and relationship. Question three is all right, let's say that we wave our magic wand, and it is now two or three months down the road, you are killing it. Like life is amazing. What does that look like? Paint me that picture. People go, you mean with my back? Or and I'll say anything and everything. Because also remember, people are not just their painful back. They're not just this collection of bones and muscles and tendons and all that stuff. Whole squishy meat bag with expectations and life stresses and all of that. Excuse me, again, allergies. Um so I want to know what the goal is. What does total success look like for them? And they'll paint me a picture, which again helps to illustrate what the target is that we're shooting for. And it helps me with my needs analysis. This is where they want to be, this is where they are now. What is the gap? How do I start to close it with them? The fourth question came from the angry email. Not directly in that email, but I asked myself, how do I avoid having this ever happen again? So the question that helps to hedge against it is this. What do we need to do by the end of our time today, in the next 40 minutes, 30 minutes, so that you walk out of here feeling like this was a really good, productive first session? Whatever they answer, that is now the target. Again, so long as what they're asking is not going to cause harm, excuse me, so long as what they're asking, I'm going to be honest about if they're asking for manipulation because their joint needs to be put back in place, I'll say something like, understood, you want some, you want a joint manipulation that's worked for you in the past, you want it to help now, got it. Can do, so long as it's true, it's true for you. Can do. Are you open to also a discussion about what it is doing, what it's not, and the rest of the things I think we need to do to help you feel better? If it's framed that way, what does that do? It helps them see that you're thinking about how to get them better, which is why they're there in the first place. It asks permission to have that further conversation, which respects their agency. And it also shows that you've got your thoughts. You want to lead them, you are inviting them along, which creates that trust and relationship. You're seeing why it's the foundation. Now it's coming together. Those four questions helped a lot. They were not magic, they did not stop me from messing up other things, but they really did help. And I found in the years since, because that would have been seven years ago, uh, those questions and permutations of them, even as I work fully online and have for the last five years, uh continue to be very important and very useful. I got one more for you. Something that I've changed my mind on, something with which I'm in a very different place than I was 11 years ago. What makes a good coach or clinician? I used to think it was being like my professors, being the clinician that had all of the answers, the magic hands that would astound people with your healing abilities and your knowledge. You were essentially the equivalent of a uh a Buddhist monk that was a master of kung fu, but of manual therapy and manipulations. Um, and people would venture and pilgrimage to come see you. What I believe makes a good coaching clinician now is surprise to nobody, hopefully at this point, somebody who leads with seeking trust and relationship, somebody who leads with honesty, uh, who strives to be excellent in not only their technical skill and craft, but also their communication skills. Um and someone who is also not afraid to say, I don't know, or say, you know what, that's not my skill set. I'm not sure I'm who you need right now. Someone who is precise with their words, uh, as in, I've always found the mark of a really excellent coach or clinician as someone who knows what they know, knows what they might know, knows what they don't know, and is willing to say I don't know. Um it's easy, especially in the social media landscape, to hear people use catchy sound bites and use words like always or never, um, and speak with oodles of confidence. Confidence is great. You need it to earn people's trust. If you're not confident, why would they be confident in you? And that also needs to be paired with honesty. Uh, because I've seen it just be too easy to fall into the trap of I'm going to speak with sweeping confidence and statements, and it's not true all the time. So how do you balance that? That's been a challenge of mine and something that weighed on me, especially earlier in my career. Uh the phrase always confident, never sure. I first heard from Derek Miles, um, who is somebody that I've looked up to and learned from over these years. Um I look at people like Dr. Eric Helms or Mike Toshir, uh, or I mean, they're the two who come to mind really as examples of this. Because Mike Toshir in the powerlifting space, Dr. Eric Helms in the nutrition and training spaces, they they know a lot. And I've heard them say, I've heard them speak very confidently, uh while maintaining honesty about what they know and what they don't know. They're able to present confidently things that they don't have full confidence in, if that makes sense to you. Um and I've always striven, strove, I've always strove. What's I always try to emulate that uh with varying degrees of success. Because again, I think it's our responsibility. If people are going to trust us with time, money, and their health, all of which are extremely valuable resources. Uh we owe it to them, to be honest. And I also don't believe that means that you have to have all the answers all the time. Impossible to have all the answers all the time, unless you are a deity. In which case, amazing, um, but also not the case. So I think it's important for us because again, at the top of the show, we talked about we all care, which we should. Uh we also need to free ourselves of the expectation to have all of the answers perfect all the time and just instead strive to do the best that we can for our people. Because if we if we have that as our North Star, people are going to be well served. Um, and we are going to be able to help get get the clarity that we and they need to find the right path forward for them. Whether that's stuff that we can help with, whether they'd be best served elsewhere. And at the end of the day, if we can leave people better than we found them. That's the whole point. That's why we got into this field in the first place, right? So I'm gonna leave you with that. As I said, there are plenty more stories and things that I've changed my mind on. Uh like I'm much more aware and uh proactive when it comes to incorporating cardiovascular work. When your boy, being a big old meathead, likes to bias towards strength work, and I still do. Um, but also cardio is great, uh, necessary, not only for health and not dying so early, but also like being able to run after your kids and to do other fun stuff. So there's that plyometrics, uh, getting more into getting better understanding of how to program for quote unquote hybrid training, as in when someone engages in sports or activities that don't complement each other, like lifting and running, they can interfere with each other. Uh, shout out to Alex Beatta, who coined that phrase many years ago and who's been my biggest inspiration uh there. So that's been a more recent development, at least as far as a focus of mine. Uh, I'm positive there's more that will come up as we go uh for these solo episodes and then also for the guest episodes. And I do have more of those coming up. Dr. Susie Spurlock is gonna come back on because uh we hit so much gold the first time around. We didn't actually talk about all of the things we wanted to, including myth busting in the PT world. So that's coming up. Uh, and I got a bit of a running list of some other folks I'm gonna get on that I think are gonna serve you. So, with all of that said, I hope this served you. Um, I'm gonna add the outro so you might hear this twice. But if it did serve you, please consider leaving a five-star review. I would really appreciate it. It does help the show reach more people, which is the whole point here. And if you're a coach or clinician looking for help, if you are giving everything to everybody else and you want something poured back in your tank, or you realize that strength and taking care of yourself is not just for you, but rather a service for the people around you, your clients and patients, I built Unbreakable Strength to help you. Yeah, you. Hey, go figure. So if you're looking for that help or you're curious about how it could look, the link to book a call with me is in the show notes. I'd love to chat here where you're at and see how my team and I can help. And until next time, keep showing up, keep going, and you're not done yet.