Ep. 5 - "There's Always Hope" w/ Dr. Taylor Goldberg

I was kind of an asshole to Dr. Taylor Goldberg.

When she and I first met, she was at rock bottom - working a job she hated, isolated from the people she loved, and questioning her career choice.

I got to watch her pull herself out of the hole by building a business she loved. Then she signed on for my coaching to get stronger and healthier...

Which is when I almost died. Dick move, if you ask me.

But Taylor came along for the ride. She's one of my favorite people, and an example of the hope and direction that's needed in healthcare.

Taylor is a chiropractor, a virtual hypermobility coach, and someone who lives with hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos syndrome herself. She now works exclusively with that population and is one of the best in the world at it. 

If you're struggling with a chronic illness, chronic pain or questioning your path in life, she's got a good word for you today.

We hit:

• What her rock bottom looked like, and the only things that helped her pull through
• How she never expected to build a business serving hypermobile humans and is now a leading expert in it
• Why people with HEDS are told to protect themselves when what they actually need is to get strong
• What good coaching and rehab looks like, especially if you have hypermobility
• The stigmas surrounding chronic illness and disability, and how you can be a victim while rejecting a victim mindset
• The surprising impact that strength coaching had on her
• And why coaches need coaches too, especially ones with chronic illness

If this episode served you, leave a 5-star review. Kthxbye ❤️ 

Find Taylor: Instagram: @thehypermobilechiro | www.thehypermobilechiro.com

Links:

Book a free consult call with me: https://calendly.com/unbreakablestrengthonline/firestarter-call-1

Trying to get consistent with your own training? Get a free copy of the Consistency Catalyst guide: https://unbreakablestrength.kit.com/cac1abf5af

Wanna be more confident working with athletes in your practice? Get a free copy of the Confident Sports Clinician's Checklist: https://unbreakablestrength.kit.com/35c376acac

Follow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jared.unbreakable/

Follow me on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jared.unbreakable

Follow me on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@unbreakablestrength1

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

My name is Jared Maynard. I'm a physical therapist, strength coach, and in 2023 I was lying in an ICU bed on a ventilator with a 50-50 chance of making it out alive. I made it out. And what I learned on the other side of that changed everything about how I live, how I coach, and what I believe is possible for the people who keep showing up. This show is for the coaches and clinicians, the people who give their all to everybody else and don't have much left over for themselves. On this show, we talk about training and rehab, as well as mental health, identity, and what it costs to be the kind of person who keeps showing up when the going gets tough. This show is meant to be your companion on the road. So come along. This is Unbreakable. Welcome to episode five of Unbreakable with yours truly, Jared Maynard. But I am not alone. I'm here with one of my favorite people on the planet, and that is not news for her to hear, but I'm going to say it again. I'm with Dr. Taylor Goldberg. Tay, how are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:22

We're good. And I am with one of my, I would say my favorite coach. I can objectively say that, and one of my favorite people on the planet as well. So I'm very, very excited for today.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Me too. For people who don't know you, we're going to fix that because y'all have a problem and you need some Taylor in your life. But for those folks, super briefly, intro them. Who's Taylor? What does she do? What are the top-level things they got to know about you?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Hello, I'm Taylor. I'm a chiropractor by trade, but I call myself now a virtual hypermobility coach. Um, I am also a human being who lives with a condition called hypermobile Ellers Danlow syndrome. And I now specifically work solely with that population. I also am a clinician and I love to teach, and I have the opportunity of coaching other clinicians, specifically in the chronic illness space and in using technology and practice. And I'm a honey badger, that's how me and Jared met. And I'm also, I would consider myself a retired athlete who still wants to lift heavy circles. And Jared helps me do that, which is awesome.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

It's almost like you've practiced that or been on a bunch of podcasts and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

I've I've said I've said the scripts one or two times by this point, which it we're gonna get into the whole origin story and everything else. But Jared truly has been there literally since day one. Been there for my first podcast ever. Now, fast forward, I don't even know how many I've been on. So it's been it's been quite the journey.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Amazing. Um, and yeah, we are gonna get into all of it. And you touched on it because as we met first through Honey Badger Project, and I had the honor and the privilege of being your one-on-one coach, I remember details of those calls and those conversations as you were in a situation in a Cairo clinic that you absolutely hated and you wanted better for yourself, for your patients, and needed, wanted help on creating that path forward. And you absolutely have done that. Before we get there, I was a bit of an asshole to you.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

I don't think that's true, but let's hear it.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

I do think it's true, and the reason I say that to you is because uh we worked together through Honey Badger, and then you reached out for personal coaching to help get you to a better place where you felt healthier, stronger, and all of that.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

If you're about to say you going into a coma is you being an asshole, I'm gonna get romatt.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Well, way to steal my thunder, but that is exactly where I'm going. Because yeah, we I looked back at the the initial intake form that you filled out when we started working together. Because that was January of 2023, 13 days later, is when I, very inconsiderately, uh, went into the hospital with an as-yet unknown disease, which you know, I say this with a smile on my face, and we're we're joking about it. The the reality is that you nor I nor anybody knew how that was gonna turn out. The stakes were really high. So I say that to just acknowledge that we've been through some shit together, T. And I am extremely grateful for you being along for the ride, even though, in fairness, you didn't choose to be along for the life-threatening on this part of it, but um and just grateful, yeah, to know you, to have you here for the ride, and to be along for the ride for you. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

You're welcome. And I could say the same, and as awful as that time was, and there's I'm sure we'll even get into it, but like there are things that you don't even know behind the scenes of conversations with John Flagg, and it was really scary. I don't think that people who weren't close to you or in your inner network truly know how bad it was when it first went down, and it was really scary. It was really, really scary. And watching your support system step in and then watching your team do an unbelievable job in making sure your people got what they needed during that time, and then watching you come out of it and where you are now compared to then has been inspiring, and it just shows you are your support system, and that's something I've very much learned from you and others is surround yourself with good people and good things will happen to you.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Thank you, and I I fully agree. Um, I can never thank people enough who've been in that support system, especially in the inner circle, who have been the ride or dies, you know, through thick and thin. And I would take away the same thing where you know, depending on who's listening to this and where you are in your life, what season you're in, it might be easier or harder to resonate with the idea of having good people around you. And what I would say to that is it's understandable and that's valid. And also it's it's probably the the best time in history, at least as far as the accessibility that exists to connect with people even who are nowhere close to you geographically. And it may not be the same as having, you know, a strong family bond or people in your city, but I think you and I have both found not I think, I know you and I have both found those people. Uh, and it's been life-changing.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

I mean, you live in the middle of nowhere, so everybody I just mentioned is very far away from you.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Objectively true. Minus my wife, but yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Yes, minus your wife, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

In the middle of the frozen tundra of Canada.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

That is what I think of when I think of you. I've I picture, I know this is probably true, but I picture you in like this little log cabin in the middle of winter where there's igloos and it's always snowing.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Yeah, we have to hunt for food every morning. Some days we go without food, Taylor. Flying hockey pucks and everything. It's great. So take us back because when you and I started to work together, you were looking for, again, help and support with your own health and strength journey as you were building up the hypermobile Cairo, your business. What was life looking like before that or leading up to that point? Where were you at that chapter?

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Rough. One word, rough. Um, so I graduated Cairo school. I always mess up the years, but I believe it was 2021. And I went straight from Cairo school to an associate position in Colorado Springs where I didn't know anybody. I am from Florida. I've lived in Florida my whole life, never had a winter in my life, never experienced any sort of weather besides beautiful sunshine. Um, and I also knew going into school, I had a very strong clinical background. I was in clinical athlete. I was very much, I would say, an anti-Cairo Cairo at the time. I don't like to use those words now. Um, and I was still scared when I got out of school that I wouldn't be able to start my own business. So I took a job, the first job that was really offered to me. And it seemed really promising. I'm not gonna lie. They said all the right things. I did ask them hard questions. They asked me what my worst day ever would be, and I told them exactly it. And guess what happened? That was my day-to-day life. So I was adjusting 50 people a day. Um, I was not able to give people the true care that they deserved. I felt like I was scamming people quite often, and I was unable to speak to my boss at the time about my feelings and about really anything without getting truly like yelled at. Um, and I was a new clinician, not very confident, not confident in myself, didn't know how to stand up for myself yet, and I was really scared and I didn't want to lose my job, and I needed money and all the things. Um, and I also was really lonely. I had no friends, it was a new environment. Um, and that was when I met depression for the first time. First time in my life. Um, and it was a really dark time, a really dark time. And the only thing truly that got me out of it was was you, the Honey Badger project, and finding support, even though it was online. It was truly the only thing that got me out of it. Um, but we we'll we'll get to that later. Um, but yeah, I was in a dark place before all this.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Man, I knew these things, and it still it still hits hearing them. Especially because knowing you as well as I do, um, it makes me angry. Literally, quite literally angry to to know that you were put in that position and that you you with the heart that you have and the care that you bring felt from the sounds of it so trapped and isolated and completely unsupported. Making a shift takes courage. Especially when you're making a shift to launch and then build a business. So you mentioned the Honey Badger Project, as we both have. Was that a snap decision? I can't imagine that was an easy one to make if you were in that place already running on low with everything going on.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

No, it definitely wasn't a snap decision. So, some context, I always knew I was gonna start my own thing. And I was already following Jenna and Phil and a bunch of other people who were doing stuff in the online space. So I always knew that was an option for me. I also already had a social media following. I started posting during COVID on TikTok. That was during a time where social media was booming, things were going viral very quickly and easily. It's a completely different landscape now. Um, and so I got really lucky because I had a post go viral, so I already had a very good following. And so I knew that I could do this, but I just didn't know how. And so I actually reached out to Jenna, and Jenna told me about the Honey Badger project. And that's when I started looking into it, got on a call with them, and I told my dad that I'm quitting my job and that I need, because I didn't have money at the time, that I needed him to pay for the Honey Badger project. And my dad is an accountant, and he was not very happy with that decision. Um, but my dad and my family are very supportive. They might, they they're also from New York, so they might say some mean things, but they're very supportive nonetheless. And he said, I will do what you think is best, but I do not like it, and I will not let it happen lightly, and that is all true. And I can say now, fast forward four years, he has apologized for that time, and he is very thankful for the Honey Foundry project. But he was like, these people are a scam, there's no way they can do what they're promising to do. Um, but the reality is I saw people doing it, I have sought trusted people, people that I trust, people that I consider experts and mentors and inspiration to me doing it. So that was kind of how I ended up making that decision. And also it was at a point where it was like, if I didn't change some, change something, I was leaving the profession. And that would have been my my worst nightmare. Um, I considered myself a very good clinician, and I think there's too many good clinicians leaving the profession because they don't have the right support or in their bad, they're in bad environments, and that easily could have been my story.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Man. Uh very clear from that whole story that your dad and your parents clearly care about you. It's like this is a scam, which fair play, especially to somebody outside of the profession personally, with enough of the question and uh unfamiliarity and skepticism that exists in the profession. Of like, what do you mean? Reimagining how you how you practice. You're a chiropractor, you gotta be in person with people. So I could see where that comes from and uh talk about I don't know if turnarounds are the right word, but you know, four years later having the apology and just knowing where you are, one faith in yourself, which you needed to have, two, faith and trust that your parents had in you, um and staying the course. Like and I know it's not been easy sailing, nor is it easy sailing all the time now. No, it never is, never is so then you've made the decision, you knew you wanted to do your own thing, you had the social media following. This I think gets us into the time frame where you and I first meet.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Uh, what's your recollection of how that first call went?

SPEAKER_01 14:27

I just remember crying. All I remember. And just and I I I don't know if you really know this, but I am not a public crier. I don't, I'm much better now. Shelly has taught me that crying is okay, but back then it was not normal for me to cry, especially in front of a stranger. Oh my god, never. And I just remember, I just was sobbing, just sobbing. That's really all I remember is just sobbing in my garage. I just bought a house and I was the house completely empty. I'm in the garage, we don't have Wi-Fi, and I'm just sobbing. And then I remember like fast forward to our second call, and that's when I kind of was doing both at the same time, which was crazy. Like when I think back on it now, like I was literally waking up 6 a.m. working until 12 a.m. Monday through Sunday for like two months. It was crazy. Um, but yeah, fast. So from the first call to the second call, I vividly remember being like, I can do this, I'm quitting my job. And then that second call, it was like, okay, I know I can actually quit my job and I will be fine, but like I don't know how to talk to my boss and actually quit. And then the second call was just me even more crying, and I really didn't know how to stand up for myself at the time. And it's crazy because looking back on it now, like I was so scared of standing up for myself, and I I don't have those fears anymore. It's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

What do you if you take if you go back to that time, what do you think you were most scared of if you were to stand up for yourself?

SPEAKER_01 16:11

I think I was scared of being proven wrong, and that maybe I wasn't, I didn't I guess failure is the easiest term for it, but my definition of failure is quitting, and I knew I would never quit. But I guess I guess I was scared that I would have to come back to that situation, and that would have been my biggest fear, one, and two, I was really honestly, as sad as it sounds, my boss wasn't a good person, and I was a little scared of what what was gonna happen on that side of things, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Yeah, and it sucks that you were in that situation. I appreciate you sharing it honestly. The fear of of failing and having to go back makes a lot of sense. I do remember a a good amount of tears on on those first couple of calls, and I remember I don't remember every one of the coaching calls I've ever been on for Honey Badger. I mean, that's four years of coaching calls, it's a lot of calls, but I remember that first one, T. And I remember the echo in the empty house. I remember you being in that that new house. And what I also remember after that was talking with John Flag and the coaching team after. This is probably like coaching call two, because one of these we were going through a resource you'd made for your clients. And we ripped through like six or seven different action items, and you're like, what do I have to do here? This, got it, this one, and I came off that call and like, yo, Taylor's moving, she is putting in work and knowing you again all the all the better now. Like that is I'm gonna say that is your MO, as in, you are someone who probably for all of your life you've put in said work. Uh I also know that you've you've learned and continue to learn how to work hard and also contain it to leave enough room for the rest of your life and things you want to do.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Yeah, yeah. Work ethic, it's something I've been thinking a lot about recently. And I posted about this the other day. There's this trend online right now, and it's like the luck, and then it goes to a bunch of videos about how it's not luck, it's hard work. And I really hate that. I really, really hate that because I know a lot of people, a lot of people that work really freaking hard, really, really hard, and they don't have luck, and they're not as successful as they should be. And I am lucky to have the work ethic I have. I was born with it. I've always had a high work ethic, born with it or saw it for my mom, whatever the case is. I've always had it since a very, very young age. And I've always known I'm lucky to have that. And still, I work very hard. I'm never gonna deny that. But my success is not just because of my worth ethic, and learning to accept that has allowed me to also realize working harder, harder, harder, harder, harder does not equal more success, more success, more success, more success in every aspect, in lifting, in health, in business, in relationships. You can't just give more. More isn't better, better is better. Katie Dobrowski says that all the time, and it's so true in every aspect, but especially in owning your own business. And that's honestly what I love about the Honey Boundary project the most. Sorry, I'm gonna just like this is gonna end up being like an ad for them, but it's true, like the life design piece, and that was rooted from day one was life design. And knowing like there's gonna be a time period where your life design does come second, and that's at the beginning. And I do think a lot of clinicians miss that, or they will stay in that for too long, or they just don't do that at all. Like it was a grind at the beginning. I will never deny that. But then you have to get out of the grind, and you can't stay in the grind forever, or you will burn out and your health will deteriorate, especially if you're living with a chronic illness. You just don't have that as an option. Um, I don't remember what the original question was. Oh, the work, work, work ethic and the luck thing. You can both can be true at the same time, and just because you say you're lucky doesn't mean that you don't have a good work ethic. Two things can be true, they don't cross each other out. So that's that's my message.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Did you did you find it hard, whether it was because chronic illness forced you to, or because you realized that something had to give because you'd been grinding for so long for you know at this particular level? Was it hard? Has it been hard to pull back or do less sometimes?

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Jared, I didn't start doing less until two months ago. Are you talking of that? To be completely transparent, to be completely honest and completely transparent. That lesson, yes, I've done less. I'm not at the same level of grinding, but recently I've had some life events that have really opened my eyes to a lot of things. And genuinely, and for the first time in my life, for the first time since owning my business, I took two weeks for myself and I picked myself over my business. I picked myself over my clients, I picked myself over my team, I picked myself over my dog, which those are things I've genuinely never ever ever done in my life. Um, and it was really scary. It was really hard, and it was really, really worth it. I don't think I could have done it any earlier than I did now. Um, I think I needed the support, I needed the trust in my team, I needed a lot of things to make it so that it happened the way that it did. But Yeah, you gotta slow down. And it's so true when they say, like, when you take time off, you're gonna have a PR month the next month. Like, it happens every single time. There's a reason for that.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Yeah. I mean, hopefully, somebody listening to this, I'm gonna just validate you because I know all of these things. I've seen Taylor take the time off. And hearing it here, there's a part of me that's like, oh shit, that's scary to think about doing for myself.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

And which tells me that is something that I need to do. And probably anybody who's hearing that and also feels similarly probably needs to find the version of that that fits right now in your season of life. Because we can I attach so much of our identity to our doing and our performance and the level of achievement that many of us are born with, like you said. Um I've always been the high achiever, maybe it's oldest child syndrome, because I've got I'm the oldest of five. But also I do think there are inbuilt tendencies. My dad is like that. So, like, there's the genetic component, there's the nurture component, and uh you mentioned chronic illness is a really clear arena where it's not a linear or proportional. You put this much effort in, you will get this proportional outcomes out. Uh business is is is similar. Um and for me, like my first tastes were getting acquainted with that was getting a diagnosis of an incurable, progressive genetic blinding disease and then having to grapple with that over the years. And then it was HLH. And there have been many other smaller instances that reinforce this. Um the last six to eight months, especially for me, have been I've been receiving the message clearer that I need to let go of the steering wheel and stop white knuckling it so much. And while there there is how to phrase it, there needs to be a healthy respect of time because we don't get time back. But the where it swings too far is the artificial uh or self-imposed urgency of like I gotta get this all done like today, um, because I'm behind, or because other people already have it, and I need to get there. Any of that resonate, or has that been part of your journey to this point too?

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Yeah, still is literally every single day. And it when you posted the other day about um one of your clients talking about, I'm just gonna say a shitty coach, it just really made me think of all of the coaches who are good coaches who think they're shitty coaches, when the reality is the norm is so bad, like the average is so bad out there, and the imposter syndrome is so real, it never goes away. But if you are resonating with what Jared said, I would almost guarantee you're a good coach because bad coaches don't worry about these things, they don't think about these things. Like it's crazy to even like say that, but like they don't have that inner dialogue of like, what is this client feeling right now? What it what more can I do for this person? Am I doing enough? Like that's not normal, and that's something I've learned, which is very mind-boggling to me because my brain never shuts up. Um, but the the white knuckling is a lesson that is forced upon people with chronic illness. And I think that in a roundabout way, we're I don't want to say we're lucky to learn that younger, but kind of in a weird way, at least in I'm gonna speak for the H E D S specific world, because usually a narrative I hear a lot in in my space is like, I'm dealing with problems I didn't think I'd deal with until I'm 60. And that gives us a different outlook on life. I'm not trying to downplay it that it still sucks. Like all of that still sucks, but it also gives us a lot of life lessons that can make us have a very different viewpoint on life, and that can translate into business, that can translate into relationships because you're aware that your time is finite and that time is the only thing you cannot get back, as well as your health. And white knuckling through it doesn't make it better, it actually makes it worse. And sometimes you it takes a really long time to come out of that if you're white knuckling through symptoms or you're not pacing and you're just pushing through, then you end up in a flare and you're in debilitating pain, and now you're bedbound, and now you're deconditioned, and now you have to start all over again. When you have that experience, the outlook on life becomes a lot different, and you realize slowing down and meeting yourself where you're at actually is the best thing that you can do for yourself. And that has been a really helpful lesson for all areas of life, I would say. A hard lesson, not a fun one, but a helpful one.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

No, not a fun, not an easy, not a quick one. So the lesson, the lessons continue to continue to come. These are still things that you work on. You were a totally different person, in your own words, back in January of 2023 and earlier as you started the business, as you began to focus on taking care of yourself. What's that journey looked like in terms of your health, your training, all of that?

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Yeah, so when I was in Cairo school, my last year of Cairo school, I would say I was in the best shape of my life. Um, I miss having that amount of time to go to the gym. I think about that every single day. Um, and having my gym partner, Carissa. I miss her so much. Um, but I was in the best shape of my life. And then unfortunately, I had an incident in Cairo school that put me into an upper cervical instability. Let's call it flair. I still to this day don't really know if I had it prior or if that adjustment caused it. I'll never know that. Regardless, I ended up having severe neurological symptoms. It was really scary. And um, that was kind of how my business started because I posted about that on social media. This was during COVID times, and that's kind of how things blew up. But during that time was so I'll give a little more context. I have a very rare story in the HEDS world where I knew I had this condition from a young age, which is not the norm. And so I knew going into Cairo school I had this condition, but I did not tell anybody except for Cursa, who was my roommate at the time. She was the only one that knew. And it's crazy now because only one professor at the time mentioned it during my entire three years of school. And that professor now actually we did a collab, and now I'm in the curriculum of the school, and it's really, really awesome. Um, but it's it's really crazy how we did not learn about this condition at all. Now, um, so I didn't want to be that girl, so I just kind of ignored it. And it, yes, I had pain, I had like little symptoms here and there, but nothing that I would consider debilitating in any way, shape, or form. Then that incident happened and I experienced debilitating symptoms for the first time in my life, and I realized, oh, I can't ignore this. That's like not an option anymore. And so I started doing more research and seeing that there were other people online dealing with this because I honestly like never really thought about it. And I also didn't realize that so many people thought you can't be helped with this condition, which I knew wasn't true because I had help since second grade. My mom put me in occupational therapy, I was in physical therapy, I had a chiropractor, I had an amazing PCP, like I had support my entire life. So I knew the stories I was seeing online didn't have to be what they were. And that was really hard for me because I never planned to work with this population. That was never, never a part of my thought process. Cause to be honest, I really didn't want to even accept that I had this condition, which we should talk about acceptance, because that is that is a huge part of the journey for everybody, I believe. Um, and so chiro school, best shape of my life, now kind of heading towards my worst. Then I move to Colorado where I'm alone. I hate my job. I feel very unfulfilled in my life. I don't have a support system, I stop exercising, I'm in a lot of pain. I'm still not really recovered. Then I get COVID. Then I have to push through COVID because it's my first week of the job, and my boss is not an understanding human. Um, and now I'm navigating, living in the place without my family for the first time in my life, without real support, and in a new relationship, in a new environment, in it in the real world for the first time. I'm sick, I don't feel good, now I'm experiencing depression. It was just everything at once. And that's usually how it goes, and that's when symptoms start becoming more severe, and that's when a lot of people start being like, I don't recognize myself anymore. That's what happened. Um, and that's kind of for the first time where I really felt I had a chronic illness, and I really felt like, oh, this is something that is impacting me. I can't just bounce back like everybody else. I do need to do more to feel okay. And that was really, really hard to admit. It was really, really hard to accept. Um, and I will be completely honest, I didn't accept it for a while. And we always say business is like the best form of self, what's the word?

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Self-reflexion.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Yeah, self-reflection. And it was true. Once I started my business, when they find a problem in your business, you'll find a problem in your personal life. That is very real. And it became unignorable because when you your income is now tied to those personal problems, you gotta work on them. You don't have a choice. And that's when I reached out to you. At the time when I reached out to you, I was not exercising, I was not eating, I was not taking care of myself in any way, shape, or shape, or form. I was extremely malnourished. Um, I was extremely sad. Um, and I was in a lot of pain. My shoulder was unbearable, my neck was unbearable, I could barely breathe on a five-minute walk. Like it was, it was not good. It was not good. Um, and then right when we started, like you said at the beginning, that my coach went into a coma and a jerk. That was super fun. Um, I'll never forget that. Carissa can attest to this. I was sitting in my basement on the floor, Snapchatting Carissa, hysterically crying, saying those exact three things. My coach is in a coma. I can't breathe here. I hate it here. Like, what am I doing? Get me out of this situation. Like, everything in my life is going to shit. Um, and yeah, that's that's kind of where the help started. Then, luckily, like I said, you had some really good people on your team. I I think you want to say something, so I'll let you talk.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

I just I know we started the show off by acknowledging this, and we're here again, and we're able to say this. You're able to say this like laughing, and as which is incredible. Um, I I just know that as we're talking about that moment where things came to a head, or where it's the inevitability of the realization of like I have this chronic illness, and there's no amount of denial that's going to change that. And I have no choice but to address this however I can. And I'm I don't recognize myself, I am a totally different person compared to how I was at the last year of Cairo school. Whatever the version of that is, I just know this is hitting home for somebody. Um it resonates for me. You know, there have been multiple periods of time where I haven't recognized myself, and there's been all of this shit on the plate, and it's like, well now what? And I just want to say that so that for the person who hears that, if there's nothing else, well, there's there should be hopefully many things that you take from this conversation, but if nothing else, you are you are not alone. And clearly, as we're gonna get into more of, there's reason to be hopeful. You know?

SPEAKER_01 35:15

So if you take anything from this call, let it be hope, because things can get better. Um, that is my biggest mission this year. Hope is my word of the year. My biggest mission this year, especially in the chronic illness space, specifically in the EDS realm, is hope because there's a big lack of it, especially online. And I think as MSK clinicians specifically, we have the biggest opportunity to change that. We see patients more than any other doctor do. And hope gives you your life back if you don't have something to look for, if you don't believe in something, if you don't believe things can get better, they won't. I know that for a fact. And I'll put this question on you like you were in a coma. There were moments, and I you can cut this out if you want, but there were moments me and John Flagg were on FaceTimes together crying, thinking you were going to die. We really, it was really that serious. It was not uh, like we were planning, like, what if that does happen? That's how bad it was. And also when you got out, we didn't know like, is he gonna be the same person? Is he gonna even want to do this anymore? Like, no idea. And how did you have hope after something like that?

SPEAKER_00 36:46

It didn't come all at once. Because I was I was asking and wrestling with those same questions. And yeah, I mean, for for anybody who's who's listening, I mean you're probably familiar with with the beats of of my story, but like Taylor said, there was the point in time where the doctors told my my parents to start getting ready to say goodbye that week. Like we we were down to the week. And then after a miraculous you know, pulling up out of the nosedive, it it wasn't like then we're good. Uh I did wake up as somebody else in somebody else's body. Um and nobody nobody could have told me how long the process was gonna take. Nobody could tell me what it was gonna look like. Uh it was the double-edged sword of being a clinician myself, where as I got my bearings, uh the the upside was I understood what was going on as the the doctors and PTs and nurses and everybody came in, you know, I was up, I was with it. The downside was I also understood what was going on and how dire the situation was. So how did I have hope? It goes back to what we said at the start, and we said a couple times having people around me to borrow hope from. Uh, because there were days, T, where the depression was was more than I'd ever experienced up to that point. Um again, being a a lifelong high achiever, perfectionist, someone who prides himself on his achievements, and like I can I can work and I'll work myself into the ground and all of that stuff. When when I had zero control over whether my body was spiking a fever on this particular day, uh, which was enough to make me nauseous because of the chemotherapy and all the other infections. Um it's like, alright, bro. Now what are you gonna do? Because you don't have those same achievements to derive your worth from now. So what do you do? Who are you? Which are heavy ass questions to wrestle with. Um so you know But in the same in the same breath, the fact that I wasn't dead made the decision easy in a sense, where it was just like, if I'm not dead, then I'm not done. And I'm just I'm just gonna work. And if there's a shot, I'm gonna take it and get back home, and we're gonna figure it out from there. And along with that, so many days in the hospital at home where I just I just wept and I and I cursed and I was angry at God and I was sorry for myself and just crippled by depression. Um and I had to learn to just let myself to be to be okay with that for lack of a different term. And it's in those points in time where having people around who weren't just saying platitudes of like, oh, it'll all be fine, because I'm I'm positive you've experienced that and that it runs rampant, especially with anybody who has a chronic illness, people who mean well and are like, oh, it's fine, you know, there's gonna be a cure and this and that, which can be very dismissive and harmful, it's harmful too.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

And yeah, like it's something I'm I especially recently, I had a call with a client yesterday, and it exactly what you just said, it was that that I'm just starting to realize more and more by us, when I say us, I mean medical professionals, when we're saying things like that, or even your support system, that makes you not accept where you're at right now. And what you just said, like if I'm not dead, I'm not done, that's you accepting what happened to you. And I do not believe that you can move forward and see progress with your health if you don't accept where you currently are, and by us acting as if there's a cure or toxic posity, which is not the same as hope. Hope is not toxic posity, and that gets construed on the internet all of the time. Dr. Susie Squatts, who you had on here not too long ago, she posts about this a lot. And it's a huge problem in our side of the world of when you post something, you post yourself doing something awesome or amazing, and then you get thousands of comments saying, that's not my story, that's not my story, there's no hope with this condition. I you call me when you're 40, like that is also not not helpful either. There is meet ourselves in the middle, very much so part of part of life is not being in the all or nothing, but especially chronic illness. Like we have to live in the gray more. Um, and it starts with acceptance and it starts with learning to be okay with where you are right now and knowing, okay, it can get better, but that doesn't mean where I'm at right now doesn't suck.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Yes. Um, I'm glad we came back to acceptance because you mentioned that before. I definitely wanted to touch on it more because correct me if I'm wrong, but the chronic illness world and the disability world overlap to a pretty significant degree, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

I am legally blind. I'm losing my vision. Um I mentioned the disease earlier. And I had that diagnosis when I was like 19 or 20. We knew something was wrong when I was like six. So it had been a long time of tests. We had stand-in diagnoses and then landed on CHM, which is the one that I have. Um it was something that I didn't, I absolutely did not accept when I got the diagnosis. Uh I was definitely grieving and processing, and I don't fault myself for it. I think most people in that situation, or probably any situation, whether it's disability, chronic illness, you're gonna process and grieve in different ways. And I don't think anybody can tell you how fast it should take or it's going to take. Would you agree or disagree?

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Very much agree. Very much agree.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

So for me, I shoved that diagnosis. It it was like this black rain cloud on the horizon that I knew I was was gonna come and find me, but it wasn't here yet, so I'm just not gonna think about it. I shoved that shit in a box, put that in the closet, forgot about it as much as I could. Um there were reminders and there were elements of my life that were. Ever present. I don't drive. I haven't driven since I was 17. I was going to go for my test to get my independent driver's license, which is when a doctor said to my parents, like, hey, he probably shouldn't drive. Which, for a 17-year-old kid who has only ever dreamed of all of the teen movies where you get the graduation gift of a used car, and now it's independence and it's freedom. And this life that I wanted, that I thought I was going to have, that I thought I should have, now is flipped on its head, and I I don't have it. I have something different that I never thought I'd have to deal with. Like your clients and like other folks in the chronic illness and HEDS space have said to you. That was that was a hard pill to swallow. It got to a point where post-HLH there was no denying this anymore. And I could look back at the years even pre-HLH, and you could see the changes in vision. Um, but it was still that brain cloud is a little closer, but still kind of on the horizon. And then it got to a point where I was smacked out in the middle of the storm. And I'm I gotta think about it more in terms of which grief flavor of grief was like worse or stronger. I think they might end up just being different between the grief of being in the hospital bed or being at home and rebuilding post-hospital, and the grief of realizing that like I like I am here, I am losing my vision. This is affecting me on a daily basis, uh even more so on a daily basis. And there's more that goes into that story, as I'm sure there is for anybody who's resonating with what we're talking about. And getting to that place of acceptance is fucking hard and painful. Um I would say I have accepted this here. I've accepted this diagnosis and that it affects me in the ways that it does, and that it will continue to. It's an interesting thing where it's an ongoing grieving process because it evolves. Um and I I want you to speak in a minute to if that's if that tracks for anything for you personally or for other folks in the chronic illness world, but um all of this to say for my skin in the game, yeah. We we want to be through and done with the fire as much as or as quickly as possible, which is normal. Pain by definition is negative, whether it's physical or mental or emotional or any other type. And doing doing what you can and what you must to move closer to acceptance is necessary if you're going to have any chance of having those the flames or the pain hurt less than to get to a better place, I think.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

I fully agree. And getting to that place of acceptance, like you said, timeline can be all over the place. Um, but there are some things that I have seen for myself and for others that can help speed things up. And one of them is having mental health support on your care team, another is proving to yourself that you can do hard things, and that really is where I see lifting and strength training come into the picture, even more so than the physiological stuff, even more so than the health stuff. I can fully confidently say at this point in my life, like I kind of hinted at, I'm going through a really hard thing right now. Life has not been easy for me these past couple months. I would say about six months ago of the hardest time of my life. Harder than chiro school, harder than my first job, like harder than all of those things. I'm not really ready to fully dive into that yet, and that's okay. I get to decide when that changes. But what I will say is I know because I was so consistent with exercise, and because I proved to myself day in and day out over the past three and a half years that I can do hard things, even on days where I really didn't want to or really didn't think I could, I was able to get through this time way quicker and way easier. And I cannot understate, especially for women, and especially women with a chronic illness who already are less capable, maybe, or feel less capable, showing yourself that you can do things that you didn't think you could will change your life and it will help you accept your condition and your reality. And another layer of that acceptance that I am constantly preaching, if you will, to my clients is you're gonna have to do more. You're gonna have to put in more work, you're gonna have to do more. You're gonna have more on your plate just to feel okay, just to feel the same, if not worse, than your partner, than your peers, than your friends, than your colleagues. Accepting that is really hard. It's really, really hard. But until you do, you're never gonna get to where you need to go. And that's also really hard. And so it's pick your hard sometimes, easier said than done. Um, and then the last thing I'll say on that end, and I know that this will relate in the blind journey side of things, is like using external things for help is not a does not make you weaker. Using mobility aids appropriately, using medications appropriately can change your life and give you your life back, and that can allow you to accept where you are. And there is a huge stigma around both of those things in the wellness space that I believe is very much harming the acceptance side of this thing because I see so many people scared to try things that I know would get them out of where they are right now, and it doesn't have to be forever, but because of the stigma around them from the wellness industry or from the internet or from their peers or whatever it may be, they refuse to give themselves those things, and it is a huge, huge hindrance to the healing process in, I would say all realms. Any anybody with a disability, I think, would agree. I don't know if you have anything to add on that.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

Oh, do I? Um I I absolutely agree. And yes, there is a stigma, I especially in the wellness space, I think societally, where you know we're sold, we're given, we're shoved this idea of like the ideal picture of health and wellness for men and women is it looks like this, and you're jacked, and you're ripped, and you do all these things, and you don't have any medications, and you you handle your mental health stuff on your own. And if we drill down even deeper, what is being implied, what's being communicated is that our worth, our value comes down to how we look, what we can do, what we don't have to do, don't have to take medications, don't need a mobility aid. Um the the perception of you know, if you are someone who is considering using a mobility aid, if you're using a cane as I do, or you're thinking about using a walker or a chair, or next, or or a brace, those things are heavy, not physically. Many of these are fairly lightweight, but mentally and emotionally, because if you want to talk about something that signals externally that you are now forever different, and people how are people gonna treat me? Which like there's merit to this, um, unfortunately, currently, um but the core issue as I see it is that our well, one, there's a whole bunch of ignorance, which is correctable, and it un disproportionately falls on the shoulders of people who are dealing with chronic illness or disability, because now, on top of trying to process your own grief and trying to figure out what you need now in this season of life, you also have the burden of helping other people to understand what you need and educating them, and that's another layer of weight which is unfair to carry. There's the ignorance, there's this ableism, this view of you are more worthy if you look like this and you can do this. And these are really difficult things to untangle. And I I don't believe that our worth comes from any of those things. I think our worth is intrinsic by nature of being human beings. And um that hearing that, if you believe it, it doesn't automatically make all this easy. Yeah, it's still really hard.

SPEAKER_01 53:29

It's still really, really hard. And like you said, that that it's not fair. And I think if you accept that it's not fair, but you have to do it anyways, that because that is reality, it gets easier, but then you tie into it the identity piece, which is a whole other conversation because I have mixed feelings on the identity in the chronic illness space because I do see identifying with your illness, I see it harm people sometimes. But I also am very, very aware that it is my identity because I am not me without it, and it is something I have to deal with day in and day out. And I don't know where the line is between over-identifying and under-identifying, but there is a line somewhere, and I think it's individual for every single person. But I think that when you are too scared to allow yourself to accept that this is your reality, you will inadvertently almost over-identify sometimes with the negative sides and not enough with the positive sides. And I think that if we could meet in the middle and realize, yeah, this stuff sucks. I have to deal with it anyways. And there's still a lot of things that I can do, and there's a lot that I can help myself with. And I can say that that I identify with X condition and with exability, and that doesn't have to make me less than. That's a really hard thing in society. It's not really a thing in society because the second you start identifying as disabled or like your life is harder, or that you need help, society says you are weaker, you are less than. And now we're living in a world too, and I'll I'll just I will blanket this with I am not anti-GLP1s. I think there is a very much time and a place for it, but I do think we're overusing them. And what's crazy to me is so many people I know would never take an Advil, would never take a pepsid, are so anti-medication. But the second they find out this one makes you skinny, there's no questions, and I don't care about the long-term side effects, and it's easier. So, like, yeah, like it's very mind-blowing to me. And again, I have a lot of clients on GLP1s. I am very pro-GLP one when it is used correctly. That is not what I'm saying, but it is being overused, and I live in Florida, and let me tell you, yeah, it is being overused, and it is mind-boggling the society side of this. It's it's some, it, it's just, it's gonna be a very interesting case study one day. Um, but the reason I'm bringing that up is because it comes into exactly what you just said our worth, our identity is how you look, what you show to the outside world. That's what society deems as your identity. And so I guess, yeah, when you start to internally realize, oh, my identity is more how I feel inside, who I think I am as a person. If I think I'm a good person, then I get to identify as that. Yeah, I guess that's where that's where it needs to go. Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 56:50

Yeah. You said um doing hard things. Or actually, sorry, let's start here. You I think you alluded to it, but you you get flack for being anti-victim mentality in the chronic illness space. And I think you've laid out the case really clearly here as far as why you think what you think. If it's if there's any doubt for anybody, I fully agree with you. Um and doing hard things for you personally, Taylor, allows you to not only not only have impact on your life, but also, if I'm hearing you right, like you get to be a beacon or an example to others to say, no, you don't have to be a victim. You can do hard things, you can, in fact, get strong and be resilient and durable. And you have more than a few examples of how that's manifesting for you. Like chronic shoulder dislocations before, and uh and and now you're doing you're doing snatches, barbell snatches.

SPEAKER_01 57:57

Yeah, we are, yeah, we are. Yeah, no, and let let's just touch a little bit more on the victim, because there is a very big difference between being a victim and a victim mindset. You are a victim. You are a victim to an illness that you did not choose, both of us. But that does not mean I have to have a victim mindset. Those two are not the same thing. A victim mindset says I'm gonna stay stuck. And I have never met any human in a victim mindset make progress. I've never seen it. I've never seen it. And when you're in a victim mindset, you are in the mindset of what do I need to do? Either what do I need to do more of, or why is this happening instead of who do you need to become? Whereas what I define as the winner's mindset, which you can have a winner's mindset and still be a victim, those two things can happen at the same exact time. But a winner's mindset is how would I feel if I was already that version of me? And how can I create that for myself? And a lot of the time that is doing hard things, proving to yourself, proving to yourself you can get out of a flair. That to me is one of the most underrated tools in the chronic illness space to start managing your flares. Show yourself, oh, that happened to me once, and then it happened to me again. And this time I got through it easier and it was less, it didn't last as long, and it was less intense. That's the first thing we do with all of our clients because it shows you one, this wasn't your fault. Two, there are things we can do to help ourselves. And three, we're learning through the flares so that future you can deal with them less. Never gonna be zero. That's just not our reality. And recently, uh so the past year or a year and a half ago, I would say now, I had a really, no, it was actually like a year and a month ago, I had a really, really bad ankle sprain, like a really grade three, like it was a really, really, really bad ankle sprain. And then we rehabbed it and then I sprained it again. And then we rehabbed it and I sprained my ankle. So I had three ankle injuries in a year, and I wasn't able to do the things that I love. I couldn't box jump, I couldn't do pistol squats, but guess what? I still, because of Jared, I still went to the gym and I found love for new things. I started deadlifting and I started to really, really enjoy that. And that was really cool, but I still missed box jumping, and that was still my goal. I still knew I wanted to get there. Fast forward, I think it took probably like nine months for me to really start being able to do what I wanted to again. And then literally a month ago, I was like 100% back. Like I was back. We were doing all of the things. And two weeks ago, what do you know? I rolled my ankle again. I rehabbed it properly. I did all of the proactive things I could possibly do. I did all the things, and I still got injured, and I'm going to have ankle instability for the rest of my life. That is something that I'm going to have. That accepting that and realizing, okay, I'm gonna have ankle stuff. I'm still gonna do all the things and I'm still gonna work through it. And guess what? This ankle injury, I'm fine now. Like I can get back to my stuff on Monday. It took two weeks to recover from. It's a lot better than the nine-month journey it took prior because we learned through it and we learned from it. And that proof is truly the only way through is to just keep proving it to yourself.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

Um, I I'm not, I don't love that you have to deal with chronic illness and HEDS and all the other things that go on. I don't love that I am legally blind and that's gonna continue and all these things. What I am grateful for is the fact that you have continually through the journey, Taylor, chosen to keep going and share, share that process, and not simply in the highlight reel format of like, I was here and now I'm awesome, and I'm gonna deadlift 300, and it's gonna be great. Um, that's part of it. But you you always keep bringing the transparency of like this is the valley, this is the muck and the mire, these are, as you just shared, these are the curveballs that like I did everything right, and shit still happened. Because something that I believe more and more is that when we're going through our own stuff, chronic illness, injury, something else that makes us feel stuck. Uh seeing somebody who is going through something similar, or even if it's not similar, but they embody what we want or what we need. The willingness to say yes and yes, this sucks. And I will continue to control what is mine to control. Yes, I'm scared of what's going to happen in the future. And I'm still going to take this next step. Yes, I wish I could do this all on my own in the way that I used to. And I will still ask for help because I refuse to put myself in this box and I refuse to make my life harder than it already is or has to be. Um I I'm confident that there are far more people that you're helping with that than you know about. And I'm I'm I'm really glad that's the case.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

I couldn't agree more, and especially um the the great the the both things got to be true at the same time. And did you get the yes and from Brooklyn, or was that before?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

No, there was definitely a Brooklyn thing. Like I knew about it before, but it was crystallized from Brooklyn and our improv exercise.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:03

That was still to this day one of the most like impactful things on me. So for those that don't know, we took an improv class, I don't know, whatever you want to call it, and we did an activity where we were just listening to each other, and then we had to say a word, and the next word was it started with the last letter of the first word. And it really showed you like you have to really be actively listening, or your brain is gonna start thinking about what you're gonna say next. And um, that was one part of it. And then another part of it was we did an activity where we would say yes and and it was really, really powerful for clinicians. I I've been saying this and now I'm gonna do it because this is gonna hold me accountable, hold me accountable to this. I've been saying I want to take improv classes because it is a powerful tool for motivational interviewing and a powerful tool as clinicians. Um, but sorry, sidetrack. As far as I believe everything happens for a reason, I am a firm believer in that. I will always believe that because I have to believe that. And um, I do believe that things happen to certain people because they were meant to change lives of the masses and multiple people. And I could not agree more that finding people who are that for you and getting rid of the ones that aren't is a very underrated tool for success. Um, I just need to give Michelle Shapiro a shout out here because without seeing her and what she's created and how many people she has been able to help with what she has physically gone through, I don't know that I would have thought it was possible for myself. And also getting rid of the toxic side of Instagram and your algorithms. There was a time where I loved kind of shitting on other providers or Fighting that fight that way and getting my motivation from what I was seeing on the other side, and that is gonna destroy you. Delete them. The way to fight bad information is to just provide good information. I don't believe that we need to um play the game of calling people out anymore. I don't think that helps anything. Um, and instead, just show the good stuff, show the good work, show what you're doing, and keep doing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:29

Love that. Uh, there are probably like 17 bajillion other things that we could and that I want to keep talking about uh for now as we bring this episode in for a close. There's gonna be somebody who's on their way to work or coming back from work or somewhere else that's listening to this and is going through a really tough time because of chronic illness, because of where they're at with their profession, their career, or where they're at with maybe their relationships or injury or something else. What's the last thing for now that you want them to really hear and take away from this conversation?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

One, get back on track, find a way to get back on track, and no guilt, no shame. What happened in the past is not dwelling on that is not gonna change anything. And if you don't know how to get back on track, find help. Ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask for help, especially if you're a clinician and you think you should know better. Ask for help, anyways. Coaches need coaches too, and that there's always hope. No matter what, there is always hope. And if you're struggling, you deserve help. Period, full stop.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:44

Couldn't say it better. So much love for you, Taylor.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:49

Same.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

Thank you for taking the time. Um we gotta do a round two.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:55

Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:57

I was gonna ask, but it's actually not a question. Like we're just gonna do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

Deal.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:02

Where where can people come find you if they want more Taylor and they they resonate with some of what we talked about?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:07

Um, so if you're looking for any information on hypermobility, HEDS, etc., the hypermobelchairo.com, I have a free resource page that I think is very underutilized. Um, you can also, if you're interested in one-on-one coaching, that you can find that on my website or my DMs are always open on Instagram. It's the Hypermobile Cairo. I also do have a clinician course that is approved for 12 CEUs for musculoskeletal clinicians, so PTs, OTs, chiropractors who want to learn how to work with this population and how to actually make a difference and not just passively learn. Um, and you can find that on my website as well under the clinicians tab or just DM me. My DMs are always open. Um, and then lastly, inside of the Honey Badger Project, I am now a coach for Primed, which is our clinical side of the Honey Badger Project. I love teaching clinicians and it's been really, really cool to see clinicians utilizing technology to help them make a bigger impact. So you can work with me there as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:03

And pro tip uh if you want to get Taylor talking, mention football. I can't promise whether I can't promise whether it'll be a positive or a negative interaction for you, depending on who your team is. But I'm just saying, she loves it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:16

And if John, if you're listening to this, your team sucks.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:18

So it's the perfect note to end on. Taylor, thank you so much. And uh for everybody else, thank you for listening to this conversation on Unbreakable. Keep going and remember that you're not done yet. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of Unbreakable with me, your host, Jared Maynard. If you found what we talked about today to be useful, if it served you, please consider leaving a five-star review wherever you get your podcasts. Hit that follow or subscribe button to keep up with the show. And if you are a coach or clinician, if you're running on empty, you're giving everything to everybody else, you are exactly who I built Unbreakable Strength to serve. The link to Book a Call with Me is in the show notes. I'd love to hear where you are and see how we can help you get where you want to go. Go check that link out in the show notes, as well as the links to a few other goodies. You can follow me on socials. And until next time, my friend, you're not done yet.