Ascend: Stories of Scale

The New Moat: Scalable GTM in Regulated Crypto Markets

• AScaleX • Season 1 • Episode 7

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AI is shifting from experimental tech to core infrastructure for the next generation of finance. As blockchain and digital assets mature, the real frontier is building systems where intelligent agents can actively participate in the economy.

On this episode of Ascend: Stories of Scale, host Angelique Strauss sat down with Sagar Shah, Chief Business Officer at Evernorth, about building the infrastructure layer for next-generation digital asset markets and how crypto is evolving into a new operating system for finance.


Sagar Shah

Chief Business Officer, Evernorth

Sagar Shah is the Chief Business Officer at Evernorth, a digital asset treasury platform backed by Ripple, SBI Holdings, and Arrington Capital. 

Sagar brings deep experience across traditional finance, enterprise tech, and crypto infrastructure. He previously spent five years at Ripple, where he held leadership roles across RippleNet, digital asset custody (including the acquisition of Metaco), and stablecoins, helping launch RLUSD.

Earlier in his career, he worked in investment banking at Citi and private equity at Brentwood Associates, and held strategy roles at Salesforce and WeWork.

Thank you for listening! This podcast is a passion project of AScaleX. Know more about us through the links below:

SPEAKER_01

And so I think it's really hard to be right about your business and the decision, but get the market timing wrong. And so I think the way to think about it then in my eyes is like, all right, what is it that matters to the market today? Right now it's risk control, risk mitigation. How can I start with that first and then build in the value-added services as the market kind of matures and is ready for that?

SPEAKER_02

Hi, everybody. This is Angelique Strauss. We're here at Ascent Stories of Scale. As technology continues to evolve, we're all navigating one of the most significant shifts in the financial market in decades. Today we're joined by Segir Shaw, Chief Business Officer at Evernorth, a company building the infrastructure layer for the next generation of digital asset markets. We'll explore how his journey from traditional finance to Ripple and now to Evernorth has shaped his perspective and how the right go-to-market strategy can position a company at the center of crypto's transition into institutional grade. Thanks for joining us, Sagar.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much for having me, Angelique. I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, amazing. Let's talk a little bit of your background, right? You started your career with City and then Brettonwood Associates in investment banking and private equity. At what point did crypto and digital assets become something you wanted to build inside rather than just analyze and on the outside?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I think the stages that I took in my career really helped inform and helped me decide what it was that I got most excited by and really what gave me that joy. I think I really developed a very strong, fundamental and foundational set of skills while working at Citigroup. But we were working on, let's say, multi-billion dollar transactions and we were just advisors to uh our clients. But the ownership and the accountability kind of stopped there. And so when I took that next step into uh Brentwood Associates and into private equity, I recognized that I was taking a lot more ownership and a lot more long-term conviction with each decision that you're making. But ultimately, also when it came to really building and scaling these businesses, you would kind of come in as like a board member or an advisor and kind of provide guidance to the management team. But then execution and kind of whether they decided to go with any of your recommendations is really up to the existing management team. And so I think what I realized with each of these steps in my career was that I was excited more by from going from maybe assessing and allocating value to actually going out and creating it. And that's really what led me through from financial advisory to private equity to ultimately being more of an operator. And then ultimately what got me excited about crypto was just a lot of the way that it kind of blended, not just finance as well as tech, but the way that it looked like this was going to be the next layer of the financial stack. Having seen what it was like it in investment banking and Citigroup and some of the limitations and challenges that you have in kind of really harnessing that and moving value, uh, that was where I was able to see that crypto and blockchain assets could really be that next transformation for finance.

SPEAKER_02

EverNorth describes uh itself as a purpose-built digital asset treasury. For someone who does not live in crypto every day, what does that mean in plain terms? And why does it need to exist as a standalone company instead of having it, the product inside a bank or an exchange?

SPEAKER_01

For someone that is new to crypto, you may have heard things like not your keys, not your coin. And what that really means is that you need to figure out how to securely safeguard and custody your digital assets. Um, working with Web3 and blockchain can be a little bit scary because if you lose those keys, you lose all that value. And there's a lot of hacks and everything else that uh have historically been a part of the crypto and blockchain industry. Something like Evernorth does is it removes that need for you to have to actually manage that crypto and blockchain yourself. The way to access and get exposure to uh digital asset currency like XRP is you can get directly through your broker that you're already familiar with, whether it's your e-trade or fidelity, you can go and buy the equity shares. It makes it a lot easier to access. The difference then is that between maybe what something Evernorth offers versus an XRP ETF is that an ETF is just going to be a passive holder of XRP. They'll buy when they're in flows, and then when people sell, they will sell the XRP. They're not really generating anything other than just matching the price of what XRP offers. Whereas Evernorth is here, we're not here to speculate, we're here to compound and add value. When we've taken on this amount of XRP or digital asset currency, we're going to be putting it to work. We're going to be compounding that yield by generating additional yield or capital like revenues off of that by let's say lending it out, determining doing different types of basis trades and all the like there to generate incremental yield on top of what you could get from just a passive ETF. Additional thing that I think a unique thing that Evernorth gets to do that an ETF doesn't is that we'll actually be active members and proponents of the XRP blockchain itself. And so while an ETF just kind of buys and holds, what we're going to be doing is actively utilizing the technology and the blockchain that exists to really help bring that next generation of finance, uh, the financial stack to the market.

SPEAKER_02

Let's talk about more of the go to market for Ever North. Regulatory alignment is one of the key tailwinds of Ever North that you're building into. How does a company actually incorporate like regulatory process into your go-to-market strategy? I mean, do you wait for clarity or do you build ahead of it and then pivot? Like, what's the story behind there?

SPEAKER_01

So it's very hard to build for regulatory clarity for a new and novel lines of business. A lot of these regulations were codified before the even internet even existed.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And so it's hard for us to really just be able to build for something that was maybe written 50, 60 years ago. Uh, but we do understand the spirit of what the regulations are often trying to do. And that's often protecting the consumer. And so when we build, we build with that line or sight into everything that we're doing. We view regulations as more of like a moat and kind of build for it as if like this is what is ideal to protect everyone involved. And then ultimately, when the regulations do catch up, uh, we see ourselves as being like an incumbent that's already kind of met that highest level of stringent standards that uh you wouldn't be able to get if you were kind of just thinking about one of the hardest go-to-market problems in fintech in general is selling to buyers whose risk appetitis uh shifting and not really fully formed yet, especially if you're new in the market.

SPEAKER_02

How do you build the sales motion for institutional investors who are directionally interested in digital assets but still compliance team and investment policies to support your product?

SPEAKER_01

So the way that we approach that is that we never try to sell crypto, if you will. What we do is try to sell the uh utility, liquidity, and efficiency of the blockchain. We lead with that and we come in as experts on risk management, on regulations, and we really partner with our clients or customers on helping educate them on what the promise of blockchain is and how we're gonna be able to, how we are harnessing that and would love to bring them along on the journey. Um, it's very rarely about like you must buy this asset versus this. It's more about let's educate and be more of that consultative go-to-market function.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. What's the most effective medium that you guys have looked into and that gets you the highest conversion from your ICP today?

SPEAKER_01

So the way that we tend to go through is definitely mostly through partnerships at the moment. We definitely like to partner more so with institutions. We have not been targeting retail and trying to acquire retail customers through that manner. And so it is oftentimes through the relationships and network that you build, it is through different types of in-person events uh as well that we really try to build that relationship. And then also thought leadership is a way that helps us also kind of attract and show that we are trusted, proven stewards of the capital and knowledgeable on the blockchain space as well.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I like that because it's all about the credibility and trust building. Speaking of that, like how does the relationship with Ripple backing and the XRP ecosystem connection help with your go-to-market strategy?

SPEAKER_01

It's helped a lot, largely because I think we have a number, myself as well as their CEO, has come from Ripple and having that backing just gives you a bit of instant credibility, especially as you were talking about. It's that institutional grade. We've got a respected backed partner that you're not going to be seeing with a lot of these other fly-by-night institutions out there. I think that credibility lends a lot. And it also helps us harness the XRP family or army that is just this fervent and massive retail base that's just very passionate about XRP and have really helped scale the ecosystem that you don't really see uh a lot of other, let's say, chains or protocols or tokens have that type of excitement about. And so those two ways have really helped us grow and helped us also understand what the market wants a lot more as well.

SPEAKER_02

At a high level, how does it going public process change how you guys operate day to day and how you show up externally with partners and prospects?

SPEAKER_01

We show up with then with a public ready mindset every day. I think we know that by being a public company, it adds an additional layer of credibility by being listed on the NASDAQ. There's so many requirements that we have. We think about governance, one of our top priorities, and that transparency that exists by having to file public filings on a quarterly, annual basis, eight case. I think that rigor really helps build the credibility and helps us also make sure that when we're thinking about something that we want to build, how can we take that compliance first and regulatory first mindset towards what we're developing?

SPEAKER_02

And so how do you build a go-to-market motion and even with a SPAC going and all of these motions happening all at the same time that survive market shifts, but flexible enough to take advantage of them?

SPEAKER_01

So the way that we try to then think about it is what are our core competencies and what are the things that will last and will be our main differentiators on an ongoing basis? And so we try to focus on that, whether it's around risk management, whether it's around yield generation or just the trust and credibility that we're creating, that as long as we've kind of managed those three appropriately, we see that the things that happen outside of that, we can always adapt to and make sure that we're still delivering uh on the expectations.

SPEAKER_02

When you guys started EverNorth, if you can share a little bit of backstory, was there any scenarios when you're testing your messaging, your positioning in the market?

SPEAKER_01

Let me see. So, like an interesting story is just how we got the name EverNorth. Yeah. The way the origination of it is that Chris Larson, the original uh one of the first CEOs of of Ripple, uh currently the chairman, he kind of talked about XRP and its being the North Star. And it was about how having the internet of value, allowing value to move as easily as information does today. Uh, the way that you might think about how, like, hey, if I want to access something on the internet, very easy to do, especially with AI. But for some reason, it was a lot more clunky to move actual dollars and cents or value across. His um overarching vision for Ripple was like, how do we help uh value move as easily as information does today? And so, as a nod to that being Ripple's North Star, we wanted to talk about how Ever North would be kind of a continuation of that uh as a way to kind of continue focused on that North Star. And so we came up with a lot of different names, a number of them we thought which we thought were gonna be good, we tested, and folks were like, uh, I don't think that's a great idea. And and so we gotten so close to finalizing it, we'd registered trademarks and all of that. And then they're like, actually, that's probably not the right name. And so yeah, I think the way that we've gone about it is like, you know, we uh you'll test it with a number of folks that you trust. That's one of the ways that we kind of were out there sourcing data and information from kind of the public uh and and from trusted collaborators as well.

SPEAKER_02

When I was looking at Ever North, I know there's some historical relationship with Ripple and all that, but why XRP? Why not Bitcoin? Why not like other, you know, um uh options out there?

SPEAKER_01

I do believe in a multi-protocol world. Uh, I think there is room and a place for Bitcoin. I think there's a room and a place for Ethereum, and I think that there is a use case that's different for XRP. Oftentimes, what you'll hear about is that Bitcoin is like digital gold. It's great as a potential store of value. Um, but the challenge is that for the same reason that I don't go out and let's say buy my toothbrush with a brick of gold, it's not great for payments. So Bitcoin's great for certain things like store of value, but it's very computationally intensive. It's not very energy friendly, and it can take a long time to settle a transaction. While I think Bitcoin is great for that potential store of value, not great for payments. Now, this is where XRP comes in, and we see it as being like the new utility for the financial stack. XRP settles transactions very quickly at roughly three to five seconds and very efficiently, uh, fractions of a penny, no matter what the time of day is. And so as you're thinking about doing lots and lots of volume of transactions, you want that predictability and you want that speed. And that is where I think the XRP ledger shines. And as more assets become uh tokenized uh and brought onto the blockchain, whether it's equities, whether it's um more esoteric things like alternative investments, yeah. We see the XRP ledger as being that great financial plumbing and utility for that transfer of value.

SPEAKER_02

You've mentioned we don't sell the crypto, we sell the infrastructure behind it, the trust, how fast it is, and all of that. But what was the biggest pushback that you got usually when you start this conversation? And how do you handle those conversations, especially because they're very conservative?

SPEAKER_01

The big, large traditional financial institutions are gonna be a little bit more conservative and they're gonna be the type of folks that are gonna wait for regulations to catch up before they're willing to kind of really play in a space. And that's understandable because they are heavily regulated. They've got a license, whether it's a bank charter or a money service license or money transmitter licenses or anything like that. And that is really their bread and butter. Like if they lose that charter, uh it's what they're using to monetize to be able to run all other aspects of their business. With them, it's kind of like it's a build and credibility, it's educating them until they're ready to take that plunge. Um, showing them that you're taking a risk-mitigated approach or risk thought forward approach, and then showing them how the blockchain works, what are the pros and cons of the different channels, and then helping educate and under help them understand why this is one that we see as being uh showing a lot of promise.

SPEAKER_02

What's the usual sales cycle look like?

SPEAKER_01

It depends on what products of yours that you're trying to sell and which ones you're trying to even utilize from them as well. I can give an example, which is when I was still at Ripple and uh we were launching Ripple USD or RLUSD, which is Ripple's US dollar stable coin. I thought that the complicated part would be how do we actually offer something like this on the blockchain? Yeah, make sure that it's easy to mint and burn as someone someone gives you US dollars. How do I mint and give them uh a stable coin? And then how do I even make sure that people don't have the ability to mint their own? Like, how do I keep controls in place for being able to do that? Interestingly enough, it wasn't the blockchain and cryptography part that was the most difficult part about launching Ripple USD. It was actually uh the off-chain having banks that were willing to bank us and even hold the underlying cash reserves that we had for the stablecoin. And so that's where the deep and trusted relationship and credibility plays. We were launching uh Ripple Stablecoin before the Genius Act had passed. And so there wasn't that regulatory clarity. And so the only way to get banks to work with us was to show them that we were operating at the highest standard. We were launching under the regulatory guidance of the New York Department of Financial Services or NYDFS. We went out and secured a New York-based trust company that would be regulated by them in which they had some guidance and use that as a way to show that we are taking, there's there's no requirement for us to do this to issue our stable company. But we're doing it, yeah. But we are doing this to show that we care uh the most about that regulatory clarity and that certainty and kind of holding ourselves to that highest standard.

SPEAKER_02

What advice would you give to a founder who's building a category where the tailwind is real, but the timing is uncertain and where bias are very adverse, like given that you've done this several times?

SPEAKER_01

It's really hard uh to be right about the business or the model, but have the timing off. I think we've seen that more than once. The most common example that comes to mind is uh Instacart and WebBAN, both very similar products, but 10 years apart. And the market finally caught up in Instacart now, a $10 billion business and WebBAN, despite having raised so much uh back in the 2000s, more than a billion dollars, and from I want to say even Sequoia, if I recall correctly, no longer even in the zeitgeist, if you will. And so I think it's really hard to be right about your business and the decision, but get the market timing wrong. And so I think the way to think about it then in my eyes is like, all right, what is it that matters to the market today? Right now it's risk control, risk mitigation. How can I start with that first and then build in the value-added services as the market kind of matures and is ready for that? I think that is one of the ways to kind of be able to be ready for the long haul, uh, knowing that you can't always control when the market's gonna turn, but to be ready to seize it. And I think if you kind of align on what your core competencies are, your value uh differentiators and start there and then also kind of deliver based on where the market need is today and be ready for it uh when the market changes.

SPEAKER_02

I do have um quick questions, like five questions answerable by yes, no, or you can pass. Okay. Let's do it. Will crypto become core financial infrastructure for institutions within the next five years?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. I think that crypto is uh already shown that it can deliver a lot of value. Have you seen you've kind of started seeing that with stable coins? And that has had a trajectory that has run up. And I think to your point around market timing, it's another good one, which is stable coins have been around for more than 10 years now. Uh, it's only in the recent 12 to 18 months that they've really taken off. And I think you've started to kind of see that tipping point exist. And I think we're kind of going all in now.

SPEAKER_02

Stable coins have bigger long-term opportunity than traditional payment rails.

SPEAKER_01

I think stable coins bring a lot of benefits to payment rails that historically have been a little bit of a challenge. Once again, similar to the settlement of the efficiency. Right now, traditional financial rails can take anywhere from three to five days to do a cross-border payment. It can be costly. With stable coins, you can settle nearly instantaneously. And I think that creates uh a lot more velocity in the financial system. And so that allows a lot more people to instead of having to wait for their cash to arrive, you can start putting that capital to work. You can turn it a lot more. And I think with a potential agentic economy on the horizon, you can even do that faster and in smaller amounts. Like you never send 30 cents cross-border in the traditional financial rails, but you could do that with stable coins. And uh, I think that's gonna create a whole new economy that we haven't seen before.

SPEAKER_02

Will regulatory clarity ultimately accelerate innovation more than it slows it down today?

SPEAKER_01

I'd say that regulatory clarity will help, but it's I think it's always necessary in some way. I think I can see regulatory, if you include it as part of your regulatory product market fit, it is important to protect your users if there is a way for regulatory clarity to make it so that we're no longer doing enforcement through just like the courts and have a clear guidelines. As long as everyone's applying and playing by those rules, I think that'll help uh the markets really grow and scale as well.

SPEAKER_02

Well, most traditional banks end up relying on crypto native infrastructure rather than building their own.

SPEAKER_01

They will definitely have to start leaning towards blockchain. I think they've seen the promise of the opportunity and the infrastructure that it offers, especially because I think a lot of the banks historically have relied on like cobalt and technology that like they're just afraid to touch anymore. It's like it works. A lot of the people that still work that know even know how to use it don't know how to change anything. And so it's just like we're just gonna leave that the way it is and then kind of working. It's working for now. Um, but I think with this new paradigm that blockchain offers, which is like we went from trading on paper tickets to electronic and it created a whole new industry. A lot of times you're gonna see that banks aren't always comfortable working with other banks' technology. Like there are a lot of competitive banks out there, and it's like they'd rather they protect their own system protect their own system. And so to the extent that there can be a neutral third party that they can all work with, that's like no bank owns an outsized voting share in or anything like that. Yeah, I think that's gonna be where uh we're gonna see a lot of activity headed towards.

SPEAKER_02

Is the biggest risk in digital assets today no longer technology, but the trust and perception?

SPEAKER_01

We've overcome a lot of the trust and perception obstacles and hurdles that have existed with blockchain technology and digital assets. The technology opportunity, I think, is still growing. We're going out and building a new operating system for finance. I think we're still on the precipice of building. And I think that the technology has created a good foundation, but there's still so much more we can do, especially as I tie it to like an agentic economy where you might not be able to have your agent, AI agent, its own bank account, but can it move blockchain and digital asset value and can it use its own credit uh through that? Uh, I think that's a massive opportunity that uh we we have yet to build towards.

SPEAKER_02

Sounds good. Thank you so much for joining us. This has been amazing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Angelique. This is a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02

Great.