Minister Meets Machine #2

Join Brandon, Caleb & Dale as they talk about uses of AI responsibly for ministers. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Morning, Dale. Morning, Brandon. Morning, Caleb. Good morning. Uh so recently I've finished preaching in a sermon and I thought it went well. Is it it was a good Sunday? We had a great day. And afterwards, one of the members came up and was talking to me about a couple of points in the lesson, and then asked the question about a point. Was that AI? And my my heart started to race a little bit. I got a little a little sweat started popping up. I I didn't know how to handle a member asking about AI and how I had used it. Is is that where we've gotten to in ministry?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Welcome to Minister Meets Machine, the podcast helping ministers use AI wisely, ethically, and effectively in real ministry. With your hosts, Brandon Jackson, Caleb Kelsey, and Dale James. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

I'm preaching the gospel with a little lay.

SPEAKER_05 1:36

So a good question I think that we probably ought to ask is why aren't we talking about AI? Why is why is that a thing? The feeling that you just described, why is it problematic for us to when someone asks about AI like that situation that you just brought up?

SPEAKER_06 1:52

And before you answer that, I gotta ask, did she ask the question because you had two heads in the picture? Is that what you're doing? Six fingers on one hand. So it was an image.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

No, I it was it was um it was a a particular thought with within it that that I honestly probably would have missed or would have seen differently. And I think one of the reasons she asked is because I talked about having used AI and and cited it as one of my sources. And so that um that kind of prompted the question. Um but a lot of you know there is some fear or concern.

SPEAKER_06 2:26

So what are what are those fears? Let's let's let's unpack those fears.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

I think the first is a perception of laziness.

SPEAKER_06 2:32

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

And we worry about about how that's going to be perceived by the congregation.

SPEAKER_05 2:42

Being genuine, I mean they we want to be genuine, and we want to do it our ourselves, but but as this new age is coming out of learning to do this um with new technology, new tools, the those fears, particularly of laziness, like what Google was, as we talked about last episode. Um that's real. That's real.

SPEAKER_06 3:02

Yeah, I think that's kind of where it gets to. It's uh I have a good friend that uses a flip phone, and it refuses to go to anything beyond a flip phone. And often the the question for a lot of us is at what point are we going to get stuck? You know, the the Amish just up the road from this, they got stuck with a horse and buggy. But somebody invented the wheel. They're using technology. So technology decided to record. So the question is, are we gonna get stuck at Google? Are we gonna get stuck at typewriters, or are we gonna get stuck at AI? Where are we gonna get stuck? And and so is and we ask it, you're right, we asked it last time. Were you lazy because we use uh you know quick verse to search to search rather than using concordance? Are we lazy because we use concordance rather than memorizing the whole Bible? And what that what it what makes us lazy?

SPEAKER_02 4:00

And I think ministers feel that even more especially because so few understand what it means to be a minister. What what is involved in that role and how that mental um work takes place and where it takes place? And um, you know, a lot of a lot of times people think we we're tied to a desk, but I I don't have a desk. And so and so I do my work for ministry all of wherever I'm at, I have to do it because I don't have the time to sit in an office and just read and study in a traditional fashion, but that doesn't mean I'm not thinking about it. It's it's present in my mind all different places.

SPEAKER_06 4:44

We use a name that that we will know and Caleb may not, but Gus Nichols, when he first started preaching, would would he was plowing, he'd take his old testament out of his pocket, read a verse, memorize that verse as he plowed a row, get to the next, get to the end of the row, pick his Bible back up, read the next verse, memorize that verse as he walked down the what was he doing? He was using a technology, the printed, the printed text that he had in his pocket to to study as he worked. And that's what you're doing if you're using Chat GPT and asking it questions or clothing, asking it questions as you fly fish or whatever. You're still studying, you're just you're just you're just you don't have the plow on the paper book. I mean, it's too it's it's still the same thing. So we we hide, we hide. Uh is that a is that a positive thing for us to hide it?

SPEAKER_05 5:35

I think it makes sense why for a little bit, but uh yeah. So let's talk about why.

SPEAKER_06 5:40

Uh the why comes back to, and and I'm gonna use this, um there are there are uh if you've got a heart condition and you you take medicine for that heart condition, and the medicine adjusts your chemicals in your body in a way that keeps you from having a heart attack. It's not lazy to take that medicine. If you have some um problems emotionally that it makes you depressed, and the chemical imbalance your body causes depression, and you take a medicine to help with that chemical imbalance, it's not lazy, and you shouldn't have to hide that you take that medicine for that. If you're like I am and I do my best trump impression, you take the fat drug. You know, I've I've I've said it publicly a couple of times, I'm on Majorno. It's helped me. Uh I've lost a lot of weight, but I walk 10 miles a day every day.

SPEAKER_07 6:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:34

Am I being lazy? No, I'm working hard at every work to do this. But that medicine has helped apparently some things in my body to adjust a way that it's helped me. So is it lazy to say, all right, uh I have a hard time focusing? This helps me unfocus. I have a hard time doing this, this helps me do this technologically.

SPEAKER_05 6:53

I think I get in the mindset of thinking that this is um talking about AI, obviously, I am only thinking about it from the preacher lens, but I have to every now and then step back and go, how are my friends who are doing all these different jobs using AI? Are they using it? And the question, the answer is absolutely. I mean, in in so many fields, if if you're not using you're behind. And so and and they're learning, I mean, the world is learning ethical uses and and safe uses for AI. And so this question of why is it intimidating in particular our uh our profession, we we want to be the utmost ethically um living, and so yeah, it it that that has to do with a lot of it.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

I think that the illustration that I I love Dale's illustration in terms of of its use and and and it is a it can be a great tool and a great benefit. There's certainly people that think, oh well, I'll get the shot and then I'll suddenly be skinny, and they don't put in the work. They don't, and they are, but but that's because they they don't want to.

SPEAKER_06 7:55

I'd rather the friend who's on the shot, and he said, Why have you lost all the weight? I hadn't lost a weight, and I you know, I'm walking 10 miles a day, you know, and and eating a little different. And he's and he's not. I mean, I've been with them. Sure. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

And so we we see that, but there's also for I think for a large part of the I don't know about a large part for for a segment of the church. Um, I I love Taco Bell, but I don't want to watch the kitchen. I don't want to see how the tacos are made. Um and and so there's a lot of people that want to and know the preacher, they want to and and enjoy the sermon, they want to know know more about God's word, but they don't need to know the ins and outs of how that sermon got to that place. And so so there isn't a concern for them about it, but for me, it becomes very important. And so we're not talking about it because the members aren't really asking about it, because they never knew how I created a sermon before AI. So they don't they don't need to know how I create it with AI.

SPEAKER_06 8:57

We're not making an off uh an episode of the office where their cut takes to the camera where we talk to the camera while we're preaching. And by the way, the here's how I did this, you know. So and and and every once in a while we do pull that curtain back. We say, here's how I got here, and that's probably a positive thing to do every once in a while, but but for the most part, people want to know what's the text say, how to apply it to my life today.

SPEAKER_05 9:18

Yeah, and we're also talking about the um love each and every member of the church, but in the sense of how much does as you're talking about, how much do they know about what's going on in the kitchen, how much time that week was spent visiting, was spent being a being a husband. Um all these different things that are going on in life, of and we want to prioritize the preaching and teaching of God's word. But using this to make that even better, we're we're we're in the beginning stage. I say beginning stages, it feels like we're behind on it, but it's we're we're just we're learning.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Sure. Yeah. I think there's also some fear. So in flat fishing, 15 years ago, there wasn't YouTube to have everybody who wants to teach somebody how to cast, record a video and say, hey, if you want to cast, here's how you do it. In order to learn how to cast, you had to find somebody who knew how to cast. And so there was a there was a guru. Uh, if you knew how to do mechanic work, guru in your community.

SPEAKER_06 10:17

But now I go to YouTube and I say, I need to replace this belt, give me a s show me a step-by-step video. That's right. Does that make you lazy? It makes me better.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

I can do things I couldn't do before, you know. But there is so for those older mechanics, they hate it.

SPEAKER_06 10:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

They they want to be the guru. They want to.

SPEAKER_06 10:35

You've got a sister-in-law or something that was in advertising, yeah. And and so there are some people in advertising that are angry right now. Yes. Oh, she's not, I understand.

SPEAKER_07 10:45

She's not.

SPEAKER_06 10:46

But but but it it's it's gonna change that industry. I remember years ago when when uh digital books first came out, they started saying it's gonna kill print books. You realize there were more books printed last year in the United States than any time in the history of the United States.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

And magazines are coming back.

SPEAKER_06 11:01

Magazines are coming back. It's it's not hurt it, it's helped it.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Yep, yeah. And I think as preachers, sometimes some folks are gonna fall into that. I'm I'm the expert. I'm I'm the one who spent this time studying, and so I don't need that. I don't I I can do it on my own.

SPEAKER_06 11:17

Well, and and to those guys, I want to say, and I'm I'm just honestly, good for you. I I'm really glad you can. I've got a good friend I'm thinking of right now that he claims he has never used anybody else's material for anything. I I can't say that. Uh I don't I I do my very best. How do you do that? Does he do a lot of hobbies? Well, he's not very good. I didn't call his name, so but I mean that's reality. I mean, you know, um uh I'm happy if somebody's got that ability. I I'm sending a text, I think, I need an approach to this. I need to know how to introduce this, how do I and and you know, sermon outline books, I I've I've used them, you know, make it your own. Yeah, make it your own.

SPEAKER_05 12:04

Hey Brandon, hey Dale, I am preaching on Matthew 23. And uh this need this is gonna be a bit of a in-your-face lesson. How do I how do I do this in an appropriate way to um properly say this is what the text is saying, this is what Jesus is doing, but then actually make it make sense for the for the single mom, you know, the these people. We would call each other.

SPEAKER_06 12:28

Oh, you call a single mom, and you say, Yes, there's a lot of single moms in our congregation. How should I approach this? Or I have a good friend that had an abortion. And uh when I learned that, and anytime I preached on abortion for the next several years, I would call her and say, Here's what I'm gonna say. She's a godly woman. She did wrong and she knows it and she she hurts. She she cries every time she thinks about this. But but you know, she I needed to hear her voice to help me express what I'm saying to people who might be in the audience that haven't said that. Jeff for years, my brother my brother Jeff for years, we call Hugo McCord on Saturday night. And he said, Here's what I'm preaching tomorrow. Any ideas? And he would record those those phone calls. You know, how neat is that? Does he still have those recordings? He does. I think he does. That's awesome. So, you know, he is he is AI. You can record.

SPEAKER_05 13:18

But what happened then though, I and and and still happens. We still do that of calling friends and calling mentors and saying, Hey, here's my plan, what do you think? Tell me how it's awful, tell me how it's great. And and I would take your ideas, I still will do that. I'll call a friend and say, Here's my plan, and then I'll take what is told me, and I usually might I'm gonna make it a bit my own. I'm not gonna just I mean, unless it's just yeah, I just need to say that verbatim, you know. Um, but but we will still do that with people. But once we do it with AI, it's uh this this ethical boundary right now is is that's that's why we're here discussing it. Right.

SPEAKER_06 13:54

Yeah, so in the in the show notes you put the word imposter syndrome. Is that what we're talking about?

SPEAKER_02 13:59

I think there's some of that. We I know that I'm not an expert and couldn't could not access what AI is able to access, and yet it's doing it for me, and I'm reaping the benefits of that. How much of that benefit do I need to share? Is not that's not me. I'm not I'm not able I spent I was sharing that I spent a week with uh combat veterans and and I was with them and I was doing that they they repelled over um a free fall and asked me if I wanted to do it. I was like, yeah, I want to do that. And they're all encouraging me and cheering me on, and I'm like, but I'm not one of you. And I I didn't go through what you did to deserve to be here. I just was the lucky next door neighbor who who got to come over. And so I think some of that is it is a little scary to use AI when it can get you out of your depths if you're not careful.

SPEAKER_06 14:55

Any of us who preach have I see any of us, I imagine most of us who preach have had a time in our life where we're trying to find our voice and we used other people's voices. Yep. You know, I like the way this guy preaches. I mean, I can tell you, I can listen to a guy preach and I can kind of figure out here's who he's influenced by. So you hear that guy, um, I remember, and I'm gonna use a name that that that's not a very popular name, but I remember when Bert Thompson was big and uh he spoke it for your hardman one year and then he came to the dorm after and he spent three hours talking to all the guys over there gathered around just to listen to the guy preach. Well, the sermon, he had a PhD in microbiology, uh, which I also thought, I mean you knew how to operate a microwave. So but uh but uh he used big long words. Well, I went back home and I just thought I'm gonna pre- that's a great sermon. I'm gonna preach that sermon. And talk about imposter syndrome. I was up there to use words, and everybody on audit me, I didn't have a clue what I was talking about, but it sure sounded good.

SPEAKER_05 15:54

Me being a young guy, I I can notice myself that if I watch some of my uh favorite preachers that I might watch, I noticed myself I could that Sunday, and I could do some impressions of some movie characters too, so I can notice myself going, I kind of sound like him.

SPEAKER_06 16:07

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_05 16:10

Who you got? I do Dan Chambers every now and then.

SPEAKER_06 16:13

No, I want to hear your movie over your who you're best.

SPEAKER_05 16:16

Oh no, no, I I could do Gollum, but I'm not doing Gollum. Do not ask me to do Gollum. Um, my precious, you know. Um gracious. I I you know, I would I could do um a little bit of a Trump one. I can kind of do it that much of an Obama voice. Um kind of his oh hello, you know, just a little bit better than I can do. He does that a lot, it seems. Um but it's just like cool to listen to.

SPEAKER_06 16:45

Um let's hear a Trump line.

SPEAKER_04 16:48

What would Trump say to us about this podcast? This podcast, it's the best. There's nothing better. These three preachers, you won't find any others like them. I've talked to them. They're the most wonderful people.

SPEAKER_05 17:03

It's our it kind of makes maybe a drunk trump. I like that's good. But I'll tell you, I I can do maybe a few more, but I would trade them all if I could do um Peter Cullen's Optimus Prime. Oh my goodness. I'll bots. I I can't do it though. But but yeah, um, I I notice myself mimicking creatures in a in certain ways. If I watch them a little bit, I go, I you know, I can't sound like that guy, you know. You know, Dan Chambers of good morning, it's so good to be with you. I think that that's kind of how he sounds in my opinion. But love you, Dan. Um but yeah, that um so when it comes to AI, you know, we're I don't know if we do we mimic AI voices? I'd say not quite yet, but yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 17:43

So part of the problem is there aren't any established really guidelines and guide rails and rules yet for this. How often do I have to say I got this point studying using Claude? I got this point from I I developed this slide using uh chat or my or uh our co-pilot or whatever. I mean, how often do we have to do that to for or do we do it once and say today my lesson, here's the materials I consulted? I I would do that regularly with series. I'd say the series I'm preaching on Hebrews, here are the three commentaries I used in putting together, here's here's a couple of people I consulted, here's a couple of sermon series I listened to, there's my there's my biography, and then I'd move on. And then if anybody asks, I'd then say, I well, you know, in the first series lesson of the series I told you what I did. And then sometimes a long series, I go back at least one more point in this in this in the series and say, here's home consulting.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Is that I don't find myself verbalizing it very much, but I'll put it on a slide and I'll put you know, created with help from or you know, AI usage or something like that.

SPEAKER_06 18:53

So the question is, is that do we and I I don't know about the answer may be yes, but do we even need to do that to the point that if if I used uh a commentary, uh no, listen, if I used uh uh uh strong's concordance and I'm preaching on faith and I I look up faith and strong concordance, I I go through and read every verse on faith, I put my sermon together. Do I have to put on the slide that I used Strong's Concordance to put together? It's not like a commentary or a tape of someone else. You're still doing the work, you're just doing the work differently.

SPEAKER_05 19:23

Is that right? But but even if if back to those conversations of if I've if I've talked with the two of y'all about my sermon this Sunday, and talking with y'all helped me get my main point crafted a little bit better so that I knew this is exactly how I need it preached. In that moment where I am trying to drive it home of like repent, let's see you perish. Do I need to by the way? Dale and Brandon gave me this never pent! I mean, I just I don't see that happening, and and I don't think that we need to do that.

SPEAKER_06 19:53

And so with AI, do we have to so maybe the answer is establish your own guidelines ethically and and and review them yourself periodically, you know?

SPEAKER_02 20:05

Make sure you're being honest with yourself and the congregation.

SPEAKER_06 20:07

Yeah, yeah. Okay, there we go. That's pretty good discussion. I like that. Absolutely. So um we uh let's move forward, let's talk about uh about uh some of the challenges that we face with this.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Yeah, it's we need if we're if we're talking about those ethical ideas and making sure that we're trying to to create some of those boundaries. Um we we try to talk about a guardrail, some some barrier that we shouldn't cross in AI. And I think one of those barriers should be don't don't have a thought and immediately go to chat GPT or Claude or some AI interaction chatbot and and ask it to tell you what to think. Um if you have a thought, if you have an idea for ministry, if there's a verse that you're reading, spend some time with it yourself first. Um and so that that is one of the boundaries that that I've set up. I'm I'm not going to immediately consult AI.

SPEAKER_06 21:12

I I like your list you made for us, and the first one on there, you put pray about it. And and so I think that's that's more important even than the other, but but but you're right. But you spend some time praying about God. I you were you developed this long before man developed it. You knew it was coming, you're not shocked that that AI is out here, you're not shocked of the abuses of it, the use of it. God, I want to use it responsibly. Help me to know how to use it responsibly.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

That's great.

SPEAKER_05 21:41

What else? I I like that. I think um praying about it. I can't stress and pray about it first enough. But but the sense of, you know, as as particularly someone young, of you know, I'm reading a text and I'm thinking about it. I'm rereading it. I might might read it in a few translations, might look At some Greek words, and I still go, I have no earthly idea how to preach this appropriately in a sermon. It's a this is a hard text I'm looking at. I'm eventually of having just no direction, I might go to one of y'all. I might go to someone, my dad or someone. So uh in the sense of helping point, so that I can then start continuing to think about it. If you know, if you give me an idea and I just take it and I'm I'm up there Sunday preaching it and hadn't even thought about it, I wouldn't like that. But if you give me a direction that I can start thinking about it a little more and do and and you know, praying about that direction, I like that.

SPEAKER_06 22:35

I get that call all the time. Have you ever preached on this? Yeah, you know, and oh yeah, here's how I approach that. And oh, okay, well that that works, you know. I always like it when somebody does that, and I actually have one I've done. I've done that video. Uh the you also said something important there that I I I don't know if you meant to move past it real quickly, but you struggle with the text yourself. You live with that text. Uh my brother says, you know, you read from ten ten different translations, you read it over and over and over again. You you you work with that text yourself before you do anything else. And I think that's I think that's responsible for a preacher to do.

unknown 23:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

We've got exoskeletons now that have motors in them, and you just strap them onto your as they're they're putting them out in mass production now. You can buy them individually, but they uh the idea is that they support your weight. They don't take somebody who can't walk and let them walk, but they take somebody who is walking, who is exercising, and they let them walk further. They let them walk higher, they let them do more. And and that should be AI. If you if you just sit on the couch and then push a button and try to make the make the thing lift you up and take you to the refrigerator, that's that's not good. Yeah, but the to put in the work and then let it assist. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:57

And I think for me, um one of the ways I might put this into practice as far as uh sermons is going is you know, I might be thinking for most of the week, I'm preaching on this text, and I've I've come to one main point, and I think I need two, but I've been thinking about it. I've been thinking about this text seems like it needs two points. And then after at the end of the week, I'm just man, I'm still, I cannot find that second point. So then I might ask AI, I might ask a friend, what are some is two points a good idea? Does this need to just be a one point? I'm overthinking this, and then getting that idea of, you know, you could do two points, you could, oh it'll be you could give 50 points if you wanted to from AI. Um, but but then getting the getting the gears rolling of how do I want to do this and then making that decision yourself, that's that that's the tool that it can be for us.

SPEAKER_06 24:46

Okay, so part of our goal in doing this is to talk about practical uses. Um and we want to give people some practical things. So the the section, what you call it in the wild, I like that title. Uh so uh but we we haven't talked about this yet, so let's talk about some of the things that happen. I I'm trying to remember, I gotta look at my notes here, what you called it. Um I don't see it on there, but but the idea of of uh we need to talk about prompts because while most many people watching this, I don't know most, but many know what a prompt is. A lot don't don't know what a prompt is. What do you how do you how do you do a prompt? And so uh the prompt is what you put in the search bar, is the easiest way to say that. What do I do? Yeah, yeah. I'm preaching from Hebrews. I need to know what to do with it. Yeah. Well, that's kind of vague. You know? I'm preaching from Hebrews 5, verse 12. Oh, you know more specific. I preach from Hebrews 5, verse 12. I'm gonna talk about how Jesus ever liveth to make intercession for us. The more specific you get, the more of an answer I can give you. So that's that's your prompt, isn't it? Alright. So uh I'm I'm I need to create an image. Okay, type in create an image. Wow. Of what? Okay, well, two of three people sitting around a campfire. Uh okay, all right. Uh three people sitting around a campfire casually dressed. One's young, one's not as young, and one's really not as young. Uh three people, you know, and and you just get more and more specific. And your prompt. So one of the things you can do is you can ask your computer how to ask a prompt. I'm here's what I'm trying to do, how would be the best way to ask to ask for this, and it'll give you a prompt to use and to create whatever you're creating. Um but it doesn't always get it right, does it? You said six fingers earlier. We all had that early on. It's about that seems to be pretty well corrected itself, but yeah, eyes going every week's direction and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

So in creating those prompts, do you try to give it um a specific religious background through which you're looking? Do you how how do you curate because you're you're really curating your answer by creating the prompt. And so, because if you if you ask ten different people questions about a verse, you're likely to get six different answers. Um, but if you ask six different or ten different members of the church, you might get only eight different answers. Different answers. And so so that that curation is limiting the resources from which AI is going to pull its information, and it's going to pull from more specialized or um certain perspectives or or ideas. And so you can you certainly can can ask AI to give you um a better understanding about a verse from a church of Christ perspective. And it'll use Church of Christ resource. It'll it'll it'll search for things that claim to be um Church of Christ related, so that still doesn't uh do it. I wouldn't I wouldn't suggest doing that a whole lot. Um I would I would want a very I would start with very broad, you know, from just the general religious world and then begin to narrow down. Um but but it allows you to curate where that's coming from.

SPEAKER_06 28:33

And so what are some of the prompts that you've used to help so um I had a call from a friend of mine in Arkansas, and the church that he's at, the the dynamics of the community of change, it's become a totally industrial area, and their building is worth a whole lot of money. And he said we have 20 members and they all drive a long way to be here. And we've been here a long time. But nobody lives here and we need to do something. So what do we do? And I gave him four or five pieces of advice. You could you could sell the building and and and build somewhere else. You could you could sell the building and give the money to you know another congregation. You could sell the building and you could sell the building to a um Hispanic group if it's Hispanic area or whatever, you know, several of So then I I I I lived with that two or three days, you know, thinking about it. And then I thought, you know, I this would be a good example. So I I developed, I have a five-page document now. And it and and so here's the here's the prompt. It's uh right. A church in Arkansas that's in an area where the dynamics have changed, the church is probably going to end up closing its doors. What are options for them? I came up with five different options. Three of them were the ones I just worded, two were ones I had not thought of, but but they were so useful, they were good. And I s and and and it said, find a bishop, and I thought, okay. So I had to say then this is a congregation that calls itself the such and such church of Christ from the Church of Christ in the United States, and you know, and then then so then it it it it adjusted. Yeah. Uh, and it was helpful because it was so in this document now it's not it it doesn't say pastor, it doesn't say reverend, it doesn't talk about sprinkling. So again, your prompt, and and I think you can overdo it where you're end up just talking into a vacuum, but but the reality is if you're creating something for the church, you don't want it to be you know, one of the challenges of like VBS material through the years I'm I'm I'm going off weird, I guess, but like VBS material through the years, is is people get VBS material from Christian Standard, which is a Christian church group. And it was pretty good material, but it wasn't really us. And you'd say, I wish we just had something we could use. Well you now can do that. You can try say, I want to create a BBS lesson for our congregation. Here's what you know about our congregation, what would be best?

SPEAKER_05 31:02

I think if if I was gonna give um a piece of advice to someone for for prompting, it depends on do they know what AI is. Uh, but if if they're starting with it, just uh fiddle around. I mean, literally, of just of just going on and saying anything to it in re in a and just getting familiarized with it, of not just ministry, but just have some fun with it is my recommendation of hey, I'm gonna I I love uh using AI to help me smoke barbecue. I I do that actively. And so I might say, hey, I'm about to smoke a pair uh uh you know two ribs and um baby back ribs. Here's my plan. I'm I've it's right now uh 7 a.m. I need these things done by 6 p.m. Go. And it will help me do it. So but that's but the the reason I've come to that point is because I've fiddled with it. So for those who are brand new to AI, just fail. Like learn how to learn how to do it and not do it.

SPEAKER_06 31:59

Or you're creating an image, and you say, All right, I don't know what I really want. So you you Google, that's weird, but you you Google, all right, I want I want pictures of such and such. So then you you you go to Google, you take that image, you copy that image, you paste it in chat, you say, I want an image in this style of this thing. And and because you may not know what that style is called, but that then just what you're doing.

SPEAKER_05 32:21

So then your best um for for finding images, do you think that might be the best way to do it that you found? Um I mean, for me, I I do like saying, here's you know, I I'll give me give me 10 picture ideas.

SPEAKER_06 32:33

I've created a list of of prompts for images. Okay. This prompt is from a 1950s scene. This prompt is from a comic book pixelated type scene. This comic is uh this is a Pixar type. And I have a list and I'll go through and I'll say this image I'm trying to create. I want to use this prompt to create this. I'll typically I'll use two or three and and and pick the one I like the best. So the prompts become really important. And you can develop, you could develop, you know, in a a document, uh, in a keep file, in a a reminder file, whatever you whatever particular file you use, you could create a list of prompts for you. Uh I imagine you probably got that with some of the study you've done.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

One of the most practical ways I think I have helped create some of those prompts is by taking a singular thought and asking chat in different ways to get to the same result. You know, answer this question, but now I want you to answer it like a Catholic priest. Yes. I need you to answer it like a uh a Jewish rabbi. I need I need you to answer it and trying to trying to get different perspectives and different ideas, and then answer it like uh someone who really doesn't know much about the Bible. And and you just get all of these different perspectives, but you also see where it's kind of pulling that information and how it's pulling that information, and then it allows you to to and then the other side of it, I'm going to be talking to a Jewish priest, a Jewish rabbi.

SPEAKER_06 34:06

How would you approach this subject in a way that would engage them?

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Yeah, I think that's a fabulous use.

SPEAKER_06 34:11

So yeah, just the but the prompt is everything. All right, we got to move on. We we got we got questions, guys. We we had our first questioner, so you can call us and leave us a voicemail with a question. Keep it about 30 to 45 seconds, and we'd love for you to have that. And you can ask about anything dealing with AI, and we'll do our very best to answer whatever is asked. But let's let's take today's question.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Hey, this is Joey Smart, a preacher at the Parish Church of Christ in Parish, Alabama. If I were to use AI of some sort of generated list of suggestions for a sermon series, lesson topics or lesson titles, would that make me lazy?

SPEAKER_02 35:01

So Joey asks about if I were to use AI of some sort to generate a list of suggestions for a sermon series with or a a list of topics or titles, would would that be lazy and and I don't I don't think that's lazy at all. I I think if if you're especially if you're struggling with um I I struggle with titles. I I can come up with ideas, I can get a feel for what I'm trying to accomplish, but a catchy title, I I can come up with something that I think is good and then ask Chad and uh AI and it it produces some pretty fabulous ideas.

SPEAKER_05 35:38

Or so say, no, it is not wrong. Um I mean that it is I I find so much uh joy, I get a high from creating sermon series and and AI being a huge helper in that. And it doesn't necessarily start there. Usually I'm if I'm if I've gotten a sermon series idea, it's because I've talked with friends about it. And I'm going, hey, you know, what does do I think the church needs this series? I mean, if it's a series, the church I think needs to, they need to need it. Um it needs to be a blessing to them. So what's too long? And and after talking about it with friends, after thinking about this for a while, I might go, um, hey, chat, here's where I need to cover. Any other things that I might need to cover?

SPEAKER_06 36:21

What am I missing? What am I missing?

SPEAKER_05 36:24

Yeah, what am I am I repetitive in these two? Can these be combined? Um, but then the end result, after refining of using my mind to do it, you can make a series that is that are things that you would never thought of. I mean, you could just be better. So I would say absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 36:41

That's outstanding. 13 lesson series for the summer. Thirteen lessons. I I mean, I can Bible characters, man, I can give you a hundred. I mean, you know, uh places, uh, great chapters of the Bible. Uh, we're gonna do our summer series on helping Christians deal with trauma in their life. I need 13 titles. I've got four or five. Give me some more. Yeah. Because that's 13's hard to come up with. You know, when we're talking about a sermon, we need three points. I can go with three points on anything. Yes, sir. But but if I need seven points, like you said. Yeah. If I need 13 points, that does change things. And no, it is not unethical, and you shouldn't feel bad about it. And uh, you know, don't be lazy, don't be lazy, but but use it in the way that it would be.

SPEAKER_05 37:25

I haven't talked with anyone I think that's like super disagreed with me about sermon series ideas, but I'd be curious too, because I to talk with them about it in the sense of okay, maybe you're just that good and I'm not. That's possible. It's very possible. Um, but but man, if you can make a sermon series after talking with friends, after thinking about it yourself, and then using AI to go, what am I missing? You you may walk away going, no AI's wrong. I mean, that that was an awful idea, Chat GPT. That that happens a lot. Um, but but you're probably gonna come away with there's something there that a lesson that I need to preach. If I don't preach that, I'm not it it's not as good of a series as it could have been.

SPEAKER_07 38:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

And it's not creating that out of thin air, it's not thinking for itself. It's it's going and finding people who have preached, taught, written about that subject and incorporating those ideas and then and then saying, hey, this got a lot of responses, this got a lot of um feedback, this got a lot of views, and you're not covering it. So this would probably fit really well with with what you're doing, and it's just doing that for you.

SPEAKER_06 38:28

And it's also not telling you what to do.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

That's right.

SPEAKER_06 38:31

So I don't it gave me 13. I only like 10 of them. You know, okay. Well, those three are out. Give me five more, or I've got three I want to use instead. It it and and we didn't say this. Sometimes when I'll do that, it'll loosen something in my mind that oh, I hadn't thought of that, and that makes me think of this, uh, which it's like it's like when I read the Bible, it's like, oh, that verse says this. Oh, I oh, I see how that verse relates to this over here. Same sort of thing.

SPEAKER_05 38:54

And and you know, going back to the the laziness part of this is I could take, and I will probably always take, time throughout my day to talk to friends and preachers for hours about certain things. But if I if if the amount of work that AI is gonna be able to do of maybe 50 hours of work, that's that's 50 phone calls that it's doing in a sense of I could call 50 friends to ask about this series, it could in certain ways narrow that down about 5,000 preachers that it could look at. And then you get to make it your own. And once again, there are gonna be some ideas that it has that you're you're going to laugh.

SPEAKER_06 39:30

Say things like, I guess I'll always do this at 20 years old. I'll always do this.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

When I have kids, I will never.

SPEAKER_06 39:38

All right, this has been fun. What are we gonna do next time, Brandon?

SPEAKER_02 39:41

We're gonna look at practical uses of AI. We've done that a little bit, but we're gonna really dive into some practical applications and how to do it. So what we would ask is that you um like, review, subscribe uh to the podcast, and let us know. Um let us know how we're doing. Give us some some feedback about things that you might like to see.