Studio Ab Ovo - Marcel Veenstra - Senior Business Consultant at Ab Ovo - about Ab Ovo as a people company and his role for RCS

What does it really take to keep Europe's rail freight moving?

In this episode of Studio Ab Ovo, host Martijn Meerman speaks with Marcel Veenstra, Senior Business Consultant at Ab Ovo and one of the driving forces behind the continued evolution of Rail Cargo System (RCS). With more than 18 years at Ab Ovo, and eight years of experience at DB Cargo before that, Marcel offers a unique perspective on the intersection of rail logistics, technology, and long-term customer partnerships. 

Rather than talking about software features alone, this conversation explores how successful digital transformation starts with understanding people and processes. Marcel explains why his role is as much about asking questions as it is about implementing technology, helping railway operators rethink long-standing habits and discover more efficient ways of working.

The discussion takes listeners inside the world of modern rail freight operations. From transport orders and train composition to automated invoicing, dangerous goods management and real-time train tracking, Marcel explains how RCS supports every stage of the rail logistics process while reducing manual work and improving data quality. He also shares why replacing endless email chains with shared, real-time information remains one of his personal ambitions for the future of rail freight. 

The episode also highlights the close relationship between Ab Ovo and its customers. Built on trust, collaboration and years of shared experience, these partnerships allow new ideas to grow from practical challenges rather than technical specifications. As Marcel explains, the goal is never simply to replace an existing system; it is to help railway companies become more efficient, more competitive and better prepared for the future. 

In this episode:

•  Marcel's journey from DB Cargo to Ab Ovo 
•  Why customer relationships are at the heart of successful software 
•  How RCS supports the complete rail freight process—from order to invoice 
•  Reducing manual work through automation and real-time information 
•  The importance of challenging existing processes instead of digitizing old habits 
•  Integrating RCS with planning solutions such as RCP and APS 
•  The future of rail freight: fewer emails, better data and smarter collaboration 
•  Why railway companies should increasingly think of themselves as transport companies 

Whether you're involved in rail freight, logistics, digital transformation or enterprise software, this episode offers valuable insights into how technology and human expertise work together to keep Europe's freight network moving.

🎙️ Listen now to discover how strong customer partnerships, deep industry knowledge and continuous innovation are shaping the future of rail logistics.

Our mission is to improve the operational processes, to support the sustainability targets, and enhance the profitability of our customers with more efficient resource usage and streamlined processes.

We do this because we care.

We thrive in complexity. We embrace innovative, business-minded thinking and cherish devotion and passion. The perfect combination of talented colleagues, strong industry ties & eagerness to create eco-friendly solutions.

Always Hands-On

We take a no-nonsense, down-to-earth approach to tackling challenges by rolling up our sleeves. We go the extra mile to deliver high quality results that provide the most value to our customers.

Always Together

We believe in better together – with our customers and with our teams. By bringing people, processes, and data together we create mutual benefits that have an impact on our customers and society. 

www.ab-ovo.com
https://www.linkedin.com/company/ab-ovo/

Transcript

[Martijn Meerman]

[instrumental music] Hi, listeners and viewers. Welcome at Studio Ab Ovo. today with, Marcel Veenstra, Senior Business Consultant at Ab Ovo for RCS. 

Welcome Marcel 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Thank you 

[Martijn Meerman]

What can you tell us about RCS and your work here at Ab Ovo? 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah, well, I'm a, a Senior Business Consultant for, Rail Cargo, and I'm doing this job now for 18 years. originally, I came from logistics and, worked also at DB Cargo in the Netherlands- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... for eight years, and after that, I started, working for, RCS at Ab Ovo, sometimes in combination with, other colleagues, from the Quintic part in order for planning, 

[Marcel Veenstra]

but enjoying it a lot, helping the rail business to get, the, the transports done in a safe and, financial good matter. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay. As a, a Senior Business Consultant at Ab Ovo, Ab Ovo is, we always say it's a, a people company, not just an IT or a software house. We- they're working people here. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes. 

[Martijn Meerman]

As a business consultant, how does it work for you in, in the daily, yeah, operations? 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Well, what I personally like most in my job is that I have a really good connection with the customers. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Sometimes so good that I cook goulash on a Sunday morning in, in the garden of the father of, one of my, I can say, friends in the meantime, and that, gives me a, a good feeling, really good feeling. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

We cycle to Balaton with one of the, yeah, you can say customers, but yeah, probably friend, is a better word. Um, so yes, when the- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. Real- yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... so when the customer has an issue or a question, they just call me. They don't create a ticket or a Jira, if, a ticket and, and, or send an email. Just, they just call me. "Marcel, what do you think about this, and how could we solve this? And I see this, this problem, how could I solve it?" 

[Marcel Veenstra]

And, most of the times, I can just help them immediately. There's no need for any changes. But if they have, new questions, then yeah, it's very interesting to, to work on that and see how we can fix that, for them. 

[Martijn Meerman]

You really work it on the same goal. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah. 

[Martijn Meerman]

It's not like the customer needs it. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah. 

[Martijn Meerman]

It's actually you and the customer or the customer and you. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah. 

[Martijn Meerman]

You both want to work this out. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Exactly. 

[Martijn Meerman]

There is something, and you wanna work it out. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Exactly, and when we have a new version, when we go live with a new version, and we don't have any issues, we don't need to create any patches, yeah, that makes really proud, and that's, that's the goal. We have the same, the, the, the same goal. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

The customer wants to go the same direction as, as, as we need to go, and- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Both going the same journey- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah, yeah 

[Martijn Meerman]

... when you're talking about logistics. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah, yeah. [laughs] 

[Martijn Meerman]

The endpoint should be the same. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes, and a- as we have customers, for a really long time, we can- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... yeah, you can say the, the relationship is, is really good. 

[Martijn Meerman]

So also trust. You cannot- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah 

[Martijn Meerman]

... distrust anybody because- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

No 

[Martijn Meerman]

... it's just, yeah, you didn't, do not distrust a friend. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Exactly. 

[Martijn Meerman]

That's- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, so that's, that's really good. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah.

[Marcel Veenstra]

So when, when the customer, gives a, a challenge or has a question, then, yeah, we start also a bit looking at the, at the processes. So what are you doing? Why are you doing it? And it's not that I immediately, take for granted what they say, and they say, "Well, I do this." "Yeah, but why do you do it, and do you want- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... do you want to keep on doing it? And, what is the benefit for your company that you do this at all? Huh? Is your- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

What's your, your, what's the profit for the company that you work for that you do this task? 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay.

[Marcel Veenstra]

Um, is it a service to customer? Well, if it's agreed, perfect, but if it's not agreed, then think about why. Why should I do that? Why should you spend money on somebody doing this effort for- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Handling is time, and time is money, so you- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Exactly. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Exactly. So if we can improve that, make life easier, do automate processes, yeah, that, that really helps. 

[Martijn Meerman]

And it, that also involves old, old or habits of people 

[Martijn Meerman]

sometimes. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes, yes, yes. 

[Martijn Meerman]

So, so you can put in some new thing- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes 

[Martijn Meerman]

... in software or in, or in an application, but to make people work the new way is not always easy. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

No, it's true. It's true. We see also that sometimes we implement information, the VIM or the TIM, for customers, and you still, still see people making screenshots and sending many e-email separately. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

System cannot help that. You need managers to check on that and, and give people the trust. why do you do this? And we, we cannot see everything. We can only see what the system covers. But what they do, at the local spot, we cannot always see, of course. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Of course. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Sometimes we have these over-the-shoulder sessions with customers to think, "Why are you doing this? What are you doing?" 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

"How can we help you further?" maybe we have implemented some process also with other customers which they can benefit from. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

But you can see that, yeah, old habits, yeah, it depends on the people, the managers, the change processes that, that are involved to be, to be handled correctly. 

[Martijn Meerman]

And developments in applications are, yeah, mostly, of course, because of questions of customers. So it's not that you just surprise the customer with something new that is... [laughs] 

[Marcel Veenstra]

No, 

[Marcel Veenstra]

no, no, no. 

[Martijn Meerman]

"Hey, look at this new feature," uh... 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Well, what we sell them, if we see a new feature and, and it will benefit from them, then of course we tell them. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

but most of the time, the, the customers come with some features, and they, they come with some process that we can even automate or make, better, or change of prices is in contract. Change of rules of that, of course we need to adapt to that. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

New interfaces, of course, if the infra manager changes the interfaces, we, we need to adapt, of course. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Of course. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

But, um, most of the time, if the, customer wants to change, we discuss it. We, we make, for example, business model, diagrams to see how, the process flows. We use our, um, BPM tool, to do that. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah, of course, yeah. It's almost a translation tool for you talk, you, you [laughs] you don't have to talk another language than your mother language. You can just work together 

[Martijn Meerman]

to visualize- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes 

[Martijn Meerman]

... processes. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes, and then you draw it in the, in the picture. The, the tool draws this in the picture. You adapt it where, where needed, and everybody has a good view about what's really happening. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

And also the question of course rises, do you still need to do it the way you do it today? Because if you keep on doing it the same way, and then the system replaces old habits- 

[Martijn Meerman]

That's true 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... we want to, we want to continue. We want to be better than we were previously. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah, but when you can f- view it, you can see it, it's always easier than to read it or something. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah, it's true. 

[Martijn Meerman]

And it's- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

It's true. But people need to learn to read it, and not, not everybody at the customer service- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Of course. Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... can do that. But if you talk them through it, and you, you discuss all, situations, yeah, you can get a, the, the good result. 

[Martijn Meerman]

So you have, also have to build on trust because people, they use their own systems or their own Excel sheets because they know what they know. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

True. 

[Martijn Meerman]

So, yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

True, but, you must not forget, when you send an email, you don't send an email to y- to one person, you send an e- email to a group. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah, of course.

[Marcel Veenstra]

And everybody reads that email. If there are, nine attachments or 18 attachments, I've seen them really, in that email, everybody's reading those emails, spending time on it, and- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... probably only one people, person needs it. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Well, okay. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Um, yeah, so one needs it for, for example, for running the train, one needs it for the invoicing. But we combine that in RCS together, so every, every data is available in the, in the system, and only the people that need it, have access to it and can see it. so, the, invoicing is, for example, done completely automatically based on the content of the train or based of the content of the waybills. 

[Martijn Meerman]

So both- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So that's- 

[Martijn Meerman]

... yeah, efficiency is, is 

[Martijn Meerman]

much greater when you work with the system? 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes. Yes. Yes. 

[Martijn Meerman]

And the fault margin is way lower, I guess. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah, but one of ... Well, when I said one of the personal goal is to get rid of emails. So a lot of people are, reading emails and, taking attention to emails and sending emails to a lot of people, and most of these people don't need it. They have even, rules in Outlook to make sure that they don't read it, but we still send it. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So, it would be m- much more efficient to show the, the, the users that need the information completely to the information, that they require for doing their job. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Um, in the system, we, we have a complete database where we store this information, so we are able to send it out, but everybody's also e- able to see it. So we try to access this data also via web interfaces, also for external parties. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Oh, of course. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So they can fetch the data that they need or, register the events that they have done to, um, um, to the tasks that they have to do. So they don't, don't need to share emails and, because a lot of people are really, their job is, handling emails. 

[Martijn Meerman]

And it's also data usage because all those [laughs] attachments, all that you have- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes. Yes 

[Martijn Meerman]

... people don't throw it away. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

No. 

[Martijn Meerman]

[laughs] 

[Marcel Veenstra]

True. 

[Martijn Meerman]

So, so the, all the, the, the laptops, PCs, and servers are stacked with, with a lot of, Excels, I think, when, uh- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

True. But, but ... And I don't have the in- illusion that I can change that completely, but- 

[Martijn Meerman]

No, of course. No 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... at least we can help in reducing that, that situation. 

[Martijn Meerman]

And do you see a large growth of customers who u- who use the system from, from those 18 years that you're here? Or so after the ... Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Well, we are, there are some customers that are using it, and, more and more, and we are trying to get more customers in, of course- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah, of course 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... using, using our system. Um, but it's a, a large process for getting new customers in- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... because of the tendering, requirements. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah, it is, it's not something that you can buy off the shelf tomorrow. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

No. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah, you can. [laughs] You, you could, but- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

No. And, and for instance enough 

[Martijn Meerman]

... it's not as ... Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

No. And the requirements from customers are always, meant in such a way as they understand their own requirements. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

And it should fit to the system that, that they need. And requirements writing is also, something's very special. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

You need to understand it. We need to understand what they want and, try to, um, 

[Marcel Veenstra]

how ... to map that to the process that we already have implemented. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Of course. Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Our system is already live for a, a long time. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So yeah, we know what we are talking about, and help the customers in order to understand their own, um, requirements and get a step ahead. So we, we don't try to replace an old system, with the same functionality. We also try to, to get the company to grow into the, into the future. So, use less people, doing the same job, um, having, the data quality in place. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

and don't have, six systems, doing the same things. So invoicing and, running the trains and, contracts are all gathered to- together in the same system so that everybody knows exactly what's, what's happening. 

[Martijn Meerman]

And is it, is it something that, that is f- when, when a company acquires this software, is it something that, that takes a long time and a lot of people to implement? Or ... 

[Marcel Veenstra]

that depends on the, on what they, what they want first. most of the time we do it in, in steps. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So we start with the, for example, invoicing step. That's, quite, n- not a really risky situation because- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... you don't, affect operations at the, at the beginning. So we can, start with the invoicing, and after that do the full operations. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, because when you are going to invoice, everything is done, like the, the, the, the train of the, the, the, the, the wagons are there from A to B, so everything in the operation is done. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes. 

[Martijn Meerman]

And then you just take the piece of the adminis- yeah, administration, how you call? 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah. Yeah. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Nice. Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So well, when you want to run a train, what you start with normally is a price agreement with your customers. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

After that you, receive the order for running the train. You plan that order on trains. If it's a- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... if it can be an order for a complete train, or it can be an order for a single wagon, both is completely supported, with RCS. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Ah, okay. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

But let's assume you, we have a complete train, so the complete is, complete train is ordered at the info manager. We receive the, the timetable back from the info manager. We, make sure that we receive the data for the train content, so which wagons are in the train, which cargo is in the train, which dangerous goods are in the train, exceptional transport permissions are on the train. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

We fetch all the data about these wagons in w- what we call the transport order. In that transport order we have all information, seals, dangerous goods, weights, wagon numbers, et cetera. With that information we can create a consignment note if it's needed to create it. Then we start, running the train. So in the system, we connect the wagon to the order so that on every track in the system, we can exactly see what's happening with this wagon at the time, in which next train this wagon is planned. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay. Of course, yep. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So that the shunting operations knows this wagon should go in this train, and prepare the train in time. Then we start, checking the train. It's an administrative check, and it's a technical check. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Technical check, somebody is walking around and registering the large brake test and doing the, the, all the wagon defects and registering that in the system. And we do an operation or an administrative check, as I call it. The length of the train must fit based on the requirements of the info manager. The total weight, the, the individual weight of the wagons must not, be too much. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Of course, yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So we check, and even if ... We check if it's allowed to run dangerous goods in this train. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Oh, okay. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

That's, some of the examples that we do. So then after that, we, confirm the train in the system, and then an automated process starts, and that automated process is informing the info manager. It's creating the train list, creating the brake list. 

[Martijn Meerman]

The Excels. [laughs] 

[Marcel Veenstra]

The Excels. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. [laughs] 

[Marcel Veenstra]

The train, the train con- train, confirmation message to the info manager, Hermes messages. in, in some cases, we even need to, send the electronic consignment note to other partners, and sometimes we do- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Oh, okay. For ... Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... even at this time so that we inform the next railway undertaking about the content of the train. wagon defects are automatically registered and sent to the GC broker, where they can see and forward it to the wagon owners. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So that's completely covered. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Wow. Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

And then ex- and then at some point, for some customers, we need to send the train ready message. It's also a message from, RCS directly to the info manager telling something about the communication between the train and, the info manager, and the driver, telephone number.

[Martijn Meerman]

Oh, so train ready is, "Okay, you can drive away now"? 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah, that's really ... You're standing in front of the light. It's red. You want it green, so you inform with the train ready, "Now I want to go." Yeah. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Oh, wow. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

And af- before that, all the train lists, everything is already communicated with the info manager. 

[Martijn Meerman]

There's a lot of details, a lot of details in the- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah, and this info manager answers also, to the messages we send. So if they s- we send the train composition message, they answer that it's okay or it's not okay, so that we can act on it immediately. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah, yeah. How is that when there is some event that something is wrong or ... Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Well- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Starting to get wrong in, in, when, when the train is on the move or ... Is the- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

No, the, the train is not on the move at this point yet. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So but suppose the, they cancel the train f- five minutes before departure- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. Can be 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... and we, send them the train composition message, then they will say, "Yeah, okay. The, this train does not e- exist anymore." That's a terrible example for doing it. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Of course, yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

It could be the case. Um, but there are also other situations that for whatever reason, this, information is not correct. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

But most of the time, we just get an okay from the info manager. But in advance, we inform the, the user that confirms the train already that something's wrong. So we are able to act- 

[Martijn Meerman]

You can act, you can act real, in real time? 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes. We can act in real time to, to fix the issue. 

[Martijn Meerman]

So, yeah. There, there's not a, not many times that that happens. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

No. 

[Martijn Meerman]

But when it should happen- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Should not happen. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. It should not happen, but when it, when it should happen, you, you are, yeah, you're ready for it with, with this software, with this application. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah. Exactly. And then we receive information from the info manager. They call it the IF4005 train running information message- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... that tells us that the wagon is, train has departed, and it gives us, all information about the, the train running during the, du- during the trip. So we exactly know where this train is, and we can show it to the user- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Wow 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... so he's immediately informed. Also, the arrival on the, of the train on the station is, is mentioned. So that's processed completely automatically in the system. 

[Martijn Meerman]

So, yeah. So the, the, the customer really knows 

[Martijn Meerman]

also in real time where his container or his wagon or his train is. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah, if you have the agreement- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... with your customer that you want to inform the customer, we have something that we call the TIM, train information message. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Unfortunately, it's an email, but we send- 

[Martijn Meerman]

No, no. But, uh- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... we send that email to predefined users automatically based on the information we receive from the train running information. 

[Martijn Meerman]

They can maybe in a ... They get an app in the future to, to see, hey, this is, uh- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah. That's a possibility. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

The, the APIs are available to do that also. But suppose there's a train from Venlo going to the Rotterdam Harbor, we can inform the Rotterdam Harbor immediately that this train has passed Venlo. It's now in Eindhoven. It's now in Tilburg, and they can, see it, immediately, what's the estimated time of arrival of the train. 

[Martijn Meerman]

So they can get the, the, the sea carrier, r- ready- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah 

[Martijn Meerman]

... and the, the, the, the big cranes and- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

They can, they can adapt it to their processes. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Wow. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes. 

[Martijn Meerman]

And, and how, how did you see the, the ... How did you see ... I think you see, you saw the, the software or, the application evolve- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes 

[Martijn Meerman]

... in the time being. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes. Yes. So for example, this situation with the train running information was not, available at that time when I started at Ab Ovo. Also, the invoicing of this train fully, automatically after it arrived at the station is now fully processed, based on the info- the content on the, of the train. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Wow. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So if the train departs with 20 wagons and you have an agreement with the customer that's for these 20 wagons, you pay a specific amount, then, automatically this, this order is transferred into the, what we call the financial domain, and prepared for invoicing, where you can send the invoice once a week or once a day or once a month, whatever agreement you have with your customer. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Wow. 

[Martijn Meerman]

And, and is it, is it also, does it also incorporate with other, software applications of, of, of Ab Ovo? So you're- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah. It can be, included with, for example, RCP or RC-, APS. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So, um, it's also depending on what kind of business you have. We have a customer, um, that is transporting also single wagon load. So whenever we have this order for single wagon load- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... we also want to plan these or to book these orders on the t- on the trains, just like you book your, train trip if you, go- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... go abroad. Um, so we reserved the, the capacity for this wagon on specific trains. We can do that in RCS based on a fixed route, but we can also send this order completely over to, my colleagues from, from the Quintic department- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... APS or RCP. They receive that order, book it on the train, and return o- to us what we exactly need to do with this wagon. So whenever the customer orders in single wagon load, we create the order, we send it over to the planning, we receive the feedback, and we can send the estimated time of arrival already to the customer. 

[Martijn Meerman]

So that's, yeah, and information is everything, of course. Of knowledge is everything, so- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah 

[Martijn Meerman]

... for- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Well, it, it depends a little bit about the countries, of course, and whether the, the- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... the train is planned. If we hand it over, we can send the handover moment to the customer, to the other railway operator. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

But if we have the information available, we can plan it completely to the end of the, of the trip. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Wow.

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah. Same for the trains. Um, in RCS, we receive the trains from the info manager. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

But we're also able to receive those trains from, RCP or APS, our colleagues from Quintic. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Oh, okay. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So they have, they have the commun- communication with the, with the info manager, and they plan the drivers and the, and the locomotives, send it over to us, and we use that for our productional purposes. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Ah, so you, you, you do the cargo, and the other part is doing the hardware? 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah. It depends also on the size of the, of the customer and what they want. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Some, of the functionality is available in RCS also, but if you want a more advanced planning- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... you can, we have the Quintic colleagues, handling those, situations. 

[Martijn Meerman]

And in, in all, because there are a lot of details, still they can ... Things, I assume they go well because- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah, yeah 

[Martijn Meerman]

... it's used very [laughs] it's used a lot. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Uh-

[Marcel Veenstra]

Well, suppose there is a wagon that has a defect. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

we run the train. The wagon has defect on its way. It could be that you get an alarm from, external systems because of heat checks, but it could also be that you have a stop and somebody's seeing it or checking it and sees that there's something wrong. So they shunt out this wagon, park this wagon on the track. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Ah, okay. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So we register in the system what kind of defects with the pictures. We have an app for that. but you can also do it directly in the, into the system. We inform the GSU broker about the, the wagon defects automatically. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

And, we continue the train without this wagon. So we, we know for each wagon that is in our control where it is exactly, and we see the complete wagon history. So what happened? So it has been shunted from- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Oh 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... track one to track two, and at this moment it has had a, a defect. At this moment it had ... We repaired, repaired the defect. At this moment, it's doing this order. Later, it's handed over to another railway undertaking. All these events are registered in the system, which we can ha- use for, for example, the, the invoicing, but also for, data warehouse processes, reporting, and all that kind of information. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah, and, and somebody knows, oh, there is still some container coming- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah 

[Martijn Meerman]

... because it's, it will not be there [laughs] when the train arrives. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes. At some- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... point in time, somebody will decide what happens with this wagon. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

And that's always a discussion we have with customers. What happens with this wagon? Well, the system doesn't ch- decide what happens with the wagon. Somebody decides- 

[Martijn Meerman]

It's a person. Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Y- Yes. Some person decides we need to reload it on another wagon, or we repair it on the spot and we take it with the next train. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

That's a decision the system does not take. But it's, completely a- capable to handle it 

[Martijn Meerman]

It can work it out with the system. Okay. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes, of course. 

[Martijn Meerman]

That's a, that's a great thing. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

And you see what happens. You can inform the customer when that happens, create new waybills if needed. the new train list, if you attach this wagon to the next train, is cr- is created, and automatic TCM is completely handled, by the system. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. And it's, and it's a great thing, of course, that you, how you talk about it. Yeah, of course, because you, you work at ABBA Oil for a long time, but you had your, your career already in, in logistics. But, and, and what, what did you, what did you see as the, as the biggest change from when you started with this application till now? when you see, when you work with it now. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah. Well, what you see is that the system keeps on evolving. So there are new questions from customer, and there is a lot of competition coming from ferries or from, from ships and from- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... trucks, of course. today it is still hard for a customer in rail, to handle rail because the rail companies, ask a lot of, of details. you need to load y- the wagon yourself. and there's not a truck coming in, bang, on the door and say, "I need to be loaded," and the truck driver helps. So it is a little bit harder for railway companies to compete, to, to have the competition with it. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

But, as, as easy as we can make it from the customers to order and to handle, the financial situation and to run the trains and be informed, the better it is for the railway companies to, to, to have the competition with, with the trucks, of course. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay. So it's, it's, it ... You're trying to get a competitive advantage- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah 

[Martijn Meerman]

... with, with the information. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes. Yes. And by making it easy for customers to order and, and run trains- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... that, that helps in the, in the competition for the railway companies. 

[Martijn Meerman]

And, and do you see any 

[Martijn Meerman]

evolvement in, in, in, evolution in, in the future? What, what is the next big thing in, in, in this specific application? 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah. Well, what, what I hope that will happen is that we will get rid of emails because- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... emails is people reading it, and email is handling. So I think, what will happen is that it will be done much more online based on the, the data source of the railway companies, ordering automatically, i- informing automatically. so gathering data when you need it instead of just providing the data, like a, a lot. I think that, that's something that will, will change. I hope also that it will be really easier to, to be able to transport on rail and, uh- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Ah, okay 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... that's- 

[Martijn Meerman]

From, from a general point of view. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

From a general point of view. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So, there are a lot of rules today. the customer needs to load the wagon, need to request the empty wagons. there are also some kind of laws. There are some additional costs in, in transport. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. Of course. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

yeah. And it's good to talk about that. Additional cost in, in transport are completely covered by our system. So you can Invoice any service that you like in the system. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

The only thing that you t- try to avoid is to invoice additional services, because most of the services are already normally included in the price. So what, what we see sometimes is that customers, are doing a transport and have- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... a transport price for it. But additional, they need to have some kind of shunting to place the wagons and to take the wagons again, to the station and to form them in a train. And they- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... invoice separate services for that transport together. 

[Martijn Meerman]

The handling, the handling fee, some kind of- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Handling fee 

[Martijn Meerman]

... yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... creating of consignment notes. But everybody knows that when you do this transport, you need to do that. 

[Martijn Meerman]

You, yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Otherwise, you're not able, to run this transport. So I hope that also the railway companies will, will combine those costs into one fee so that there is less handling, also less s- service handling. Because if you, if, if you forget invoicing services, it's revenue loss. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Of course. Yeah, of course. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

So if you include it in your transport price, you will never have revenue loss. It will be much easier. but yeah, our system covers it all. So, we are able to invoice services, of any kind, whenever there- 

[Martijn Meerman]

And transparency, transparency in the whole price is, is better- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

[clears throat] Yeah 

[Martijn Meerman]

... because you see every part of the, of the cost. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes. So if you do something additional for your customer because they request it, please make sure you invoice it too. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

But if you're doing something standard, keep it as standard and include it in your transport price. That makes life easier for the customer. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

They can really compare what's happening. They don't have five invoices for one transport. That makes life easier. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Did you ... Did, do you ... D- did you find it a lot when you, when you're working with customers that there was that kind of situation, that they were losing money not invoicing extra work or, or? 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Well, it's, it's hard to tell because you don't know, you don't get that information. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Oh, okay. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

You don't see that information. But you, you learn while talking to people that they feel themself that they lose money be- because of not, invoicing- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Not be sure 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... everything that- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... that's done. Yes. 

[Martijn Meerman]

[clears throat] So, yeah. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

And, and the system knows exactly when wagons move. Then they know exactly when, when we do shunting, because every r- e- event is registered in the system. So we could even do it automatically if, if needed. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

But yeah, there is a big chance that, additional services, could be invoiced more than they are today. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. And, and so, like, the future is more like, um, 

[Martijn Meerman]

people are always invol- involved, of course, but the handling of people should be, yeah, should be less. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes. 

[Martijn Meerman]

That is the ... That would be the, the perfect world in, in the rail, than the railway. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

I, I hope we can, we can a- a- accomplish that. if the t- ... the customer wants a transport, they just get an invoice for the transport and, that's it. No additional services. Only if there is really an ... If you need to shunt out a wagon because of a defect, yes. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Of course. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

You need to put a locomotive there. Yes, you need to invoice that. That's fine. The repair of the wagon, probably you need to invoice. But if you run a train from A to B every day, don't invoice additional services. That's not needed. 

[Martijn Meerman]

So. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

I hope that will happen. But it's also competition price, yeah? So the service price will probably not be mentioned on the same s- level as- 

[Martijn Meerman]

Oh, okay 

[Marcel Veenstra]

... the transport price will be level, so they look cheaper, but. 

[Martijn Meerman]

Yeah. So trust, transparency. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah, yeah. 

[Martijn Meerman]

People involved, but less- 

[Marcel Veenstra]

[clears throat] 

[Martijn Meerman]

... less handling. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yeah. 

[Martijn Meerman]

That will be the future. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

I hope. I hope, yes. 

[Martijn Meerman]

The world you, you're working on. 

[Marcel Veenstra]

Yes. And railway companies, that's my personal thought, should think more like, "I'm a transport company," instead of, "I'm a railway company." 

[Martijn Meerman]

Okay. Well, that's a good conclusion. [laughs] Thank you very much. Yes. 

[Martijn Meerman]

[outro jingle]