Harder to Kill: Fitness, Food, and Staying Ready

In college, Joey and Chris made a bet about who'd be the fattest at 40. They both showed up to that birthday in better shape than they started. This week, two average athletes (not trainers, not experts, just two guys who've stayed in it) talk about what's actually worked for them across two very different body types — and what hasn't.

This is the fitness conversation most men need but rarely get. Not a program. Not a protocol. Just an honest look at why so many guys quietly resign to being out of shape in their 30s and 40s, and what it takes to break that pattern without becoming a person you don't recognize.

Joey and Chris get into why environment beats willpower every time, why 90% of men over 30 will never sprint again, and the moment a car flipped on the highway and Chris had to pull a door off its frame. They talk about counting calories without shame, the trap of being proud of how much you can eat, and why the goal isn't six-pack abs — it's being the kind of man who's ready when his daughter asks him to train with her.

In this episode:

• The college bet that started a 25-year fitness conversation
• Why "I'm not that disciplined" is the right starting point
• The 5 a.m. rule and how community kills the snooze button
• What changed at 40 (and what didn't)
• The pull-up story: capacity vs. conditioning
• Calories are real, even when you wish they weren't
• Protein as a budget, not a goal
• Why strong people are harder to kill (and harder to hurt the people they love)
• Modeling fitness for your kids without passing down food shame
• The small step: pick your frequency, pick what's in and what's out

Mentioned in this episode:

• Paul Horn, Radically Simple Strength
• Peter Attia, Outlive
• The Art of Manliness podcast
• Brett Venables and the "hard to kill" philosophy

Be Brave. Live Big.

FOLLOW THE HOSTS
Joey Odom — @joeyodom.life; www.joeyodom.life
Chris Hart — @thechrishart · @thebravecoaches; www.bravecoaches.com
Subscribe, share, and leave us five stars wherever you listen.
Produced by Sonus Podcasts · sonuspodcasts.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to Brave and Big, where we talk about living a Brave and Big Life. I'm Joey Odom, husband to Kristen, dad to Harrison and Gianna, speaker, former tech co-founder, and author.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

I'm Chris Hart, husband to Molly, dad to Blakely, Cooper, Landry, and my son Brave. I'm the CEO and founder of the Brave Group and Brave Performance Agency. Joey and I have been having these talks for 25 years, and we're better for it. We believe the same will be true for you. Enjoy this episode. Be brave and live big. Hey, welcome back to Brave and Big. Let's go. Which one are you? Oh, it depends on the day, don't you think?

SPEAKER_00 0:41

I think so.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Uh great question. Today I want to be big.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Yeah, yeah. You're feeling brave because you've got a little tumtum issues going on. You got a little tummy ache. Yeah, you got a tummy ache. You know? Man, you got a little tummy ache. I hope you're over by the time this airs.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Man, that'd be great.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

Because I don't feel like standing up or sitting down right now. So this is fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

But did Molly send my doll with you or anything? Just prayers and I got a loving kiss. Oh, that's sweet. Virtual. Like that. Hey, do you remember? Do you remember when we were in college? It was about midnight, and you were walking through the hall and you were just polishing off a large pizza at midnight. Yep. And I said, Chris, you're going to be so fat. I said, You're going to be, bro, you were going to be the fattest. You're going to be so much fatter than me when we turn 40. Yes. And you're like, uh-uh. You know what? You're going to be fatter than me, Joey. So we went back and forth in this banter of who's going to be fatter at 40. So we placed a bet that day that we were going to see at 40 whoever's fattest had to maybe ironically buy the other person a huge, a huge meal.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

And then we do something after that.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

And we do something after that. Which was? Which was watch Braveheart. That's it. And we got to 40 and we looked at each other. And then I said to you, I go, dang, bro, you look good. And I said, you look pretty good. And I said, neither of us are fat. Neither of us are fatter. And it was which was a shock. I was a, I mean, you've seen Joey pictures. Joey's Joey's a little fatty growing up. So I got a little, I got a little fat kid in me. And Chris ate everything he's ever seen in his whole life. Mowed it down. And bro, you are fit. Come on. And I think as I'm thinking about, we're going to talk about fitness. We're going to talk about diet today. And this is just our own personal experience. We're a couple 45-year-old guys, and having gone through one person who is who you do have, you have a metabolism motor, like you're able to burn a bunch and you consume a bunch. I'm a little predisposed growing up being a little fat kid. And I think about the way that we've navigated this. I actually think we have a bunch to say on it, which is really fun.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

I think so too. And then it but it's also interesting because we're by no means fitness experts or certified. Yeah. We are middle-aged men that have navigated two very different body types. Right. Which is honestly why we just thought this would be a fun episode. Yeah. You are you are tall and you have decided to be lean and fit. You've done CrossFit, you've done different things. I'm I'm shorter than you. I weigh two, I've weighed 245-ish pounds for 30 years. You carry it great. Thanks. Uh I love it. Like I I like, I'm I'm very happy with size and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And want to be better. Yeah. You know what I mean? So I think that's what's interesting. So I I believe it will be an interesting conversation. And maybe help each other find our next level.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Yeah, that's right. I think that's good. And again, yeah, we just we've kind of gone through it and we and again, we're not, I am not by any means, neither of us are. I mean, you you are a great natural athlete. I think I'm an average natural athlete. And so it's not like, again, it's not like we have just this like crazy motor. I think you could you could have played college football. Like I probably could have played small college basketball, but again, like by no means a phenom. So but like working through what's probably a pretty normal process that most of us work through, and there is some mindset stuff there that we're gonna get into that I think's really interesting. But I I find myself I find myself running into friends I went to to high school with, and I just look and I'm be like, I look at them like, bro, like you don't you don't have to carry 30 extra pounds. You don't have to. You look sloppy. And and uh we're gonna I'm gonna sound can we just pre-say some of this will sound judgmental, and I'm sorry, but I'm not that sorry about it. But I think like we I think we can speak semi-truthfully on this because again, like Kristen used to refer to me as muffin top, take my shirt off with a pair of jeans on. You want to go look, you want to see a bad look is a man in jeans with no shirt or a man sitting down in jeans with. Yeah, instead of Joey, like for the rest of the day, say, hey, muffin top. Muffin top, yeah, just a quick little jab. So it's but he so again, we're not I'm not talking about when I say with judgment, like you should you should trim some, like I'm again, I'm we're not talking about just just agree God here, but we bump into friends, and a lot of them aren't fit, and but that's not necessarily as much the problem as they seem resigned to it. And so I think the problem is most people aren't fit and they should be.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Yeah, that that's a great way to say it, and are just somehow, somewhere got stuck and just thought I I can't see a path. Because the problem is, and we all know this about like fitness or weight loss, you you actually do have that moment in your adulthood where you lose some weight and then gain it back.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

And so that becomes the assumption that I can't keep it off. There was something unique about that moment why I lost it in the first place. Right. And if I did it, I'd I'd hate to do it again because we start thinking about what other people think.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

And I think especially when it comes to fitness, this is where that phrase comparison is the thief of all joy really factors in.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

I I I am somewhat jealous of like the five'nine guy that can walk into like Dillard's, put on a suit off the rack, and look awesome.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

You know what I mean? Those guys like Luke Collins or something. You know what I mean? Just like that guy looks great in my life that it's always like, man, this jacket fits, doesn't fit here, doesn't feel like in high school. I had to get pants made because I was doing squats all the time, got these big thighs for a while, and just a different body type.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

And if I'm comparing myself to tall, lean guy, like it just kills the whole thing. Or if we compare ourselves to our younger self, yeah, I got a feeling we're 70, we're gonna be like, bro, should have enjoyed 45 body a little bit more. You're putting effort into it.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

I specifically remember in college we had to get that fat test. Yes. And they just grab a chunk of gut and you know, whatever. And in college, I was 230 pounds and six percent body fat. Wow. Because Schaefer, a friend of ours, was a pole vaulter at 9% and was beside himself that that I had less body fat than his skinny track self. I am no, I am not 6% anymore. Absolutely not. But if if I was just like frustrated and and mad and and beat myself up over not being the college fit, yeah, what a silly thing. Right. But I think that's the problem is we're comparing incorrectly. So what's it look like to win with your fitness right here at this phase of life?

SPEAKER_00 7:24

So for your fitness journey, did you because you you you I believe you're lean. I mean, like you're you're strong, but you like you look, you look like all right, this guy is like proportional the way he's supposed to like you look to me like the way you were made to be to look. So and you still eat a bunch of calories for the most part. So your fitness, I mean you you burn a lot, lot, lot of calories. So uh will you talk through maybe I I'd love to hear actually, maybe thinking for guys who are hey, you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s, like can you walk through kind of maybe the decades of that? Like post-college, what does your fitness journey look like? Exercise and diet both post-college.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

I think my metabolism was still kind of through the roof. And I literally would laugh about like I'd work out once a week or something and still feel great, compete in all the various stuff that we would do. Probably like most guys, around 30, I really did somehow, and I did not ever want to blame it on getting older, or I just thought it was such an excuse, but something did change. I the the love handles showed up, right? You know what I mean? And not I hadn't done anything different. And so in my 30s, I got a little bit more serious about like thinking through the lens of health. I think this is the problem too. Sometimes I had like a I was almost proud of how much I could eat. Yes, like I would on spring break, I'd I'd I'd win a a wing eating contest, and we'd go somewhere random. It's like I can eat more pizza than that guy. And I mean, like, there was like a pride about oh, Hartle finish your food. And and stuff still, I like I still think that's fun. Yes, but what like a silly thing to be actually proud of because it's not me at my best.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

And I think that was probably part of my maturation, I guess, was like, hey, you being the guy that can eat the most is actually not that cool and not the best for you. And then honestly, at 40 is when we started doing something every single morning during the week at 5 a.m. Just it and it started out as like a competition and turned into just kind of what we do now, and it's been the best thing that I've consistently done for six years now. Um, we do it a variation of things every morning at 5 a.m. And I've I'm more aware of what I eat. Like I don't really drink soda, yeah, I don't drink beer. Yeah, um, I don't neck I I I probably still weigh too much of like fajitas, yeah, but I don't eat a ton of sweets.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

So like if I'm working on something, it would be like, let's just get portion control right.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

But I have become a lot more aware of what I'm putting in my body. Yes. And I'm I love the fact that we work out five days a week. Yeah. And you lift too, right? We lift three days and then play basketball. That's Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Tuesday, Thursday, we play Ultimate Frisbee. And it's it's kind of our cardio. Have you seen that deal that says like I I think it's like 90% of guys over 30 will never sprint again? Wow. And then I thought I was like, no way. And then I'm like, wait, I'm trying to think of all the times I sprinted in my like, why would I, why would most guys sprint? Yeah. It's not part of their workout, they're not working out, or it's not part of their routine. They're not actually actively in a competitive sport. So most guys stop sprinting, but that's what actually creates HGH and all that kind of stuff. So for me, frisbee demand like forced us to sprint. Yeah. So we didn't fall in that category.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

It actually sounds actually just actually kind of if you walk somewhere and you saw like a 50-year-old dude sprinting, you'd be like, what on earth is that what you're doing? I just run in them all. Like Tom Cruise, like going after it, you know what I mean? Every movie, every time. He may be the 10%. Yeah, he's probably the 10% sprinting. I mean, that is wild. Like, it is really funny. That's so true. And I'm thinking about the last time I sprinted, it's probably when I visited Tulsa and played Ultimate Frisbee with you, like a year ago.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

It's great. We do have guys, that's the great thing about it. Friends will come in town and be like, hey, I'll stay the night on Wednesday, man, I'll come run with you guys on Thursday.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

And it's great. And other things of that, but it is amazing. I think let's get into this, but just that idea of like what actually works for you. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

For me, that 5 a.m. deal is a whole lot of habit stacking. Yeah. I'm with guys I want to be with. I woke up when I said I was going to get up.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

There's the social connection. It's absolutely physically what I need to be doing. Yeah. And my mind is right going into getting my kids out the door and starting anything business real quick. That's good. But but all of those, it's not just like, well, fitness is great. It literally checks five boxes. Yeah, I like that. And I can it and it's not at the sacrifice of family, friends, fun, business. Yeah. The sacrifice is 5 a.m., but it prevents sacrifice in the areas I care about.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Yeah, that's good. I found myself in college. I I've generally been like 190 to 210. And I found myself in college, I think at 235. In college? Yeah, not carrying it well. Like there was that, and so I just, and at that point, I just said, I gotta do something. And I just took a semester of stairmaster. And again, I I you know played basketball in high school and I started to see my body react. I said, okay, that's good. Like you I remember this. Yeah. Didn't you say 20 minutes a day?

SPEAKER_02 12:36

Yeah. That's kind of what you did. Yeah. Because I I remember you doing it over the summer. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_00 12:40

I think so. Yeah. I discovered it. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

And I was like, Joe, you look different. And I I really remember specifically because it was 20 minutes a day. Yeah. And you're like, I just don't miss a day.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Yeah. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. It was it was just I went up to AC at O at ORU, 20 minutes a day. And so that was, and and you know, you kind of all that kind of feeds on itself. You like how you feel, you want to keep doing that kind of thing. So that was kind of the start for myself. Got into a little bit of CrossFit in um probably late 20s, carried that into when I moved into Atlanta. That was the thing for that season. You talk about what works for you. That absolutely worked for me. The reason why it worked for me when I was in Tulsa because I had five guys I would go with and we would do it. It became a community thing, which I will just tell you, like skipping ahead to the small step, like it is, I believe this is semi-wrong, but I believe for 90% of the people, it is impossible for it to be sustainable without others doing it with you. I can't imagine working out without somebody else.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

I'm not as disciplined as I think I am or need to be without other people. Absolutely. But that alarm going off uh my alarm goes off at 4.33 and 436, just in case like I really try to get up at the first one.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

If I somehow like so, but every Monday through Friday, and the great thing is my wife has never woken up. Molly is a sleeper. So at 4 33, and it's funny too, it's almost like cold plunge. You never get used to it.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

I'm still like I I've tried to like condition myself over these six years. I still don't like waking up at 4 30. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so every morning I still have to make that decision, but the fact that other guys are connected to it, yeah. I'm not gonna not walk out my front door where there's a a guy waiting for me to go to the gym. Yeah. Uh there that my neighbor picks me up to go play frisbee.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

See, the thing I love that you said about it is I'm not that disciplined. And I think I think we put a little bit too heavy an emphasis on discipline. Why on earth are we trying to exercise all this willpower and discipline when we don't need to? Just set up systems, just have people around you. Like then you don't have to worry about willpower or discipline.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Okay. Environment is stronger than willpower. That's it. Like I'd I'd need to quit eating ice cream. Why do you have ice cream in your fridge?

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Right. Isn't that physically impossible to eat ice cream when you don't have it? That's it.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Yeah. Or you're like counting on your willpower to walk by the freezer 20 times and resist it every time. It's dumb. Just remove it. Yeah. Same thing with proximity. Right. That guy's in my driveway waiting for me to walk out.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

It's so like it's it's I would feel like such a punk just to go back to bed and make him waste his time. Right. So for six years I've gotten up at the same time. Yeah. Because he's in the driveway. Yeah. Created the right environment. Right. So I'm not counting on my discipline or willpower.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

I I found whenever when I turned all these people say this, and I thought it was so dumb when they said it. They said, oh, when you hit 40. Oh, when you hit 40. And I just I thought it was so dumb that I turned 40 August 12th. In September, I got somehow I got a back infection that that put me in the hospital. That that this back infection, if left untreated, has a 20% mortality rate. Really? So I would I had antibiotics flowing in my blood five hours a day. So it was, and so when people said something changed at 40, it was different, but something did change at 40.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Your back got a big yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

And then I found myself at the end of that, almost with this decision of like resignation or not. Because I was I was very four or five days a week in the CrossFit gym. Like, wait, I could, I could, man, I could just go to walking, which maybe would have been fine. I could have just said, oh man, maybe it was the deadlifts that got me. Maybe like who knows what it is. It was unbelievably painful. And I just didn't ever like this idea. And I think this being the problem mentally, that it's inevitable. It's inevitable you'll become unfit. It's inevitable you'll put on weight. It's inevitable. I just don't like the idea of inevitability. So I just, and and I think about it, this is the lens that we think through all the time. Like, what am I modeling to my kids here? My kids are going to replicate this. Whatever it is, whatever I tell them the reality is, they'll believe is the reality. So got back on the horse. And I will tell you, bro, I listened to a podcast a few months ago. It was on the art of manliness, and it was a guy named Paul Horn. He wrote a book called Radically Simple Strength. And I've never really lifted heavy that much. And so I listened to this and I was like, and he goes, every what'd he say? He goes, I believe that every man should be able to do two plates on bench, three pay, three plates on squat, four plates on deadlifts. And I was like, Okay. Like it. I can do that. Yeah. And I did not, and Heath, Heath and I, so again, back my workout partner, we said, all right, let's go do it. And bro, I am, again, I'm 6'5, 2'10. I'm not, I'm not thick, but I'm lifting heavier at 45 than I've ever lifted in my life.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

What'd you squat the other day? You told me.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Uh, I squatted 320. 320, repping at two. That's not a one rep. That's repping at two. That's a long way up. That's a long way up and down.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

I do love the guys in the gym that can like wipe their butt on the ground. Like those guys that get real low on squats.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

I need to work. It's not that I can't. I need to condition myself to get these hips rotating a little bit more to get real low. Hips don't lie, Son. Hips don't lie, bro. Shakira. But what I love that you're saying, it's that whole idea it's not a capacity issue, it's a conditioning issue. Yeah. Josh Atkinson's a friend of ours. Yeah. Six foot four basketball player. We were we were gym buddies for years.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Jump out the gym, beautiful left-handed football.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

42-inch vert, crazy, I mean athlete. Well, he comes in the gym one day and said, we should get good at pull-ups. And I said, Josh, in my life, I've never thought that.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

I'm not like a gymnast, small little guy. You know what I mean? Like, um, and he goes, Let's just see how many you can do. He did like 10 or something. As hard as I could pull myself, I did five.

unknown 18:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

And felt like I strained everything. Yeah. Trying to have good form. So it just proved like I'm not naturally good at pull-ups.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

But we put a system in place and started doing five sets of five, which turned into 10 sets of five, which turned into 10 sets of 10. And then it was like, let's just see how quick we can get to 100. And I did 34 pull-ups.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

But I think that's what's amazing. Like that's what's cool about like a fitness journey or process. That was something I'm really not naturally good at.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

But because we focused on it, and that's what's cool about the gym, like we would train for 225 when the combine would come around. How many times can we get it? Because it's fun to see, you know what I'm saying? But like that's what's so cool. And I think maybe that's what's been encouraging is all these different seasons. There's been seasons where we lifted real heavy. Other times it was more kind of hit style or CrossFit or like the fun of like finding different ways to treat your body, shape your body, condition your body. I think that's the coolest part about it. Yeah. But I believe that starts with a decision. I'm I'm gonna make fitness in my life a priority. Yes. And then we're gonna get the fruit that comes from that decision.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

So aside from looking good, I mean, basic question like why is it important to prioritize fitness? And maybe it is looking good. Maybe that's it. That's I mean, that's an absolute part of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

It's Deion Sanders, man, look good, feel good, feel good, play good, play good, get paid good. Like my kids say that. Like Coop will put on her soccer uniforms. She's like, I look good. I'm like, let's go get paid, Coop, right? So I think that's for sure part of it. But I mean, you know this. Like, there's times, one, I'll go to the gym and have great ideas. Yeah. Because you're getting your body right and it's absolutely collected to our mind. Yes. And there's also the side of it, like, I'm different if I don't lift. Yes. I I don't know if it's if it's being like wanting to be a high producer, thinking about advancing all the time, whatever that is, like the the gym like levels out. Yeah. Like sometimes I'm I'm being a little turd to the kids or something like that. Molly go, hey, did you lift today? Wow. It so it for me, yeah, it's shocking at what a leveling agent it is that we're training to actually operate at our highest level.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

I want to be great in our businesses. Yeah. I really want to be good as a dad. I want to serve God well. And then I think too, like, you want to go real spiritual with it, and we start talking about like it being the temple.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

It just then it starts to boil down to stewardship. Like, man, are you stewarding the temple? Yeah. And and I think about it like this all the time, like, even like what we put in our bodies and what we don't. Just the reality of like, like, if I could live, if I can have anything to do with living to 70 versus 85. Yes. Like 15 more years on the planet. Yeah. Like we're gonna go to heaven someday and it's gonna be great. Yeah. But 15 more years of impact, because like I didn't smoke or didn't drink, or or you know, didn't drink Diet Coke every day, or you know what I mean? Like whatever it is. I love the idea of the longevity that comes with lifting and being our best and then adding. To the longevity.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Yeah, that's right. What do you think? Well, I mean, to me, one of them, I mean, the looking good, like, I want to be attractive to Kristen. Yeah. I want I want to, I want that. Like, there's the there's the vanity side, of course, where I like want to like, you know, look good at the pool in the summer and all that kind of stuff too. But but I think the other part is like I really love hanging out with my kids. Like, I really want, there's a book uh but by Peter Atia called Outlive, and he talks about you know different ages. Like if you can't lift your suitcase at 70 or something, like that's a benchmark at 70 to lift your suitcase. Like, big boy, I'm never asking somebody to lift my suitcase for me. You know what I mean? So those whole, there's a little competitive element inside of it that I want to, but I want to I want to hang out with my kids and grandkids as long as I possibly can. And I think for me, like that's a really big piece of it. This is one reason why I've switched over to to a little bit less cardio, maybe a little more like zone two stuff, like conversational walking, which I would have made fun of myself 10 years ago for, but the conversational walking, but then like the lifting heavy, they there's so much stuff that says muscle development as you get older is vital. Have you seen what they're saying about like quad strength?

SPEAKER_02 23:10

Like the stronger your they can completely associate the strength of your quads to the longevity of your life. Wow. Because this is what keeps us from falling. That's interesting, bro. Then have such a shorter lifespan after the fall. Wow. Because it's so much harder to recover. So you prevent the fall altogether if your quads are strong.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Did they say anything about my quads?

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Yeah. Yeah. You're actually a picture of them. I bet we can find that picture.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Have you seen that? It's a meme or something, but it's literally like a guy, it's a devastating situation, but a guy is carrying his kid, like a helper, like a army guy is carrying the guy's kid instead of him carrying the kid. Wow. And it's like, this is why we train. You know what I'm saying? It's like, man, when it when it comes down to it, if there's a moment of need, like I a car flipped over one time on the highway, and I ran across the highway, and this lady was like stuck in a car. And I mean, it was the most adrenaline I felt in my whole life, and I pulled the door back. I believe it. And this guy, this semi-truck driver comes, he goes, Holy hell. He was like, and I was thinking that I'm like, Mother, are you watching this? And I'm just pulling this door and the whole the whole rest of the drive, we're like trying to catch a flight in Utah. I was like, You saw me pull that door, right? That's why I lift. You know what I'm saying? But it's like random example.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

But we we stay ready. That's right. You don't have to get ready if you're ready. And man, like my son, Brave, likes to likes to do fitness stuff. Yes. And and I think what we really want to do is like we're doing the things where our kids catch us doing the right thing. Yep. So I come home at 6 30, sweaty in the morning when they're getting up for school. Yeah. So every single day, the picture that my kids have is my dad just came from doing one of the things he should be doing. That's right. So guess what? On Saturdays, it's like, hey, brave, you put the workout together.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Dad, we're going to do push-ups, we're going to do jumper jacks. Love it. He's fallen in love with it in a really good way, but it's basically he's seen it. And then all of my friends that he also looks up to, they work out. Yeah. So of course, that's the path he's going to take.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

I'm telling you, I got a competitive. Harrison's 17, almost 18. I got it. I have a competitiveness in me for that. No, I'm I'm going to outlift you. You know what I mean? I want to see how long. Harrison's ripped. Yeah. How long can I make it? And there's that there becomes that competitive, again, that like sharpening, which is which is so good. We can get around, you can continue to sharpen each other. And I think COVID for me really was like, I think for my kids it was an inflection point. By the way, it's become cultural in our home. Kristen works out. She's like, she's, you know, doing her thing at high low, which is a which is a uh thing that like her fitness routine, and she is in great shape. And so what's normal for our kids now is like, yeah, you work out, you stay fit, which is such a good thing. And I think COVID did that was a moment for us. There was just this one line that it's that was in our CrossFit gym at the time, it just said, and it's not original to ours, but it's strong people are harder to kill.

unknown 26:06

Bro.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

And I just want to be harder to kill. I mean, you think about freaking bread venables out there, the Sooners go hard to kill, hard to kill. Love it. What if we were just hard to kill?

SPEAKER_02 26:15

I just love that. Well, fired up thinking about it. You probably saw the deal on like sex predators look at the parents. Wow. Man, is that it like they they see a six foot five fit guy? It's like that's not worth the effort. Dang. So not only hard to kill, hard to hurt the things that you care about. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so I think, and I know that's like a lot of tough guy talk, but I really lost a bunch of people, couple couple wusses just chimed out of this. But I think that's that's a little bit of the why. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, yes, look good, feel good, all that kind of stuff. But then it's like the moments where it is necessary. Yeah. I I love the idea. Our one of our daughters really wanted to like win this race in sixth grade. And it's so funny. It it come to find out because the top 20 got a water bottle. And I'm like, man, you know we could buy you a water bottle. You know, but she wanted to win this thing. Well, she came in and she just goes, Dad, would you train me? And it's funny because I'm not a trainer for running, right? But what she was asking was, I would I go run the three miles with her literally a week before. It wasn't like she was real strategic about it. Yeah. But four times I could go run with her only because we play Frisbee. Yeah. So I was ready to work out with my daughter when she asked. And that's that, like, more than beating a guy up. Yeah. Like being able to be ready for those moments that do just present themselves. Yeah. No, honey, I'm not in shape enough to help you. Man. What a terrible thing to have to say.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Yeah, that's right. I I will tell you for as much, we've talked really about movement and fitness and stuff like that, or movement and and exercise. For me, though, I would say the greatest transformation for me that I've seen in my body is always as a result of me changing my diet, of coupling diet with I I think the two are so linked. When I'm not working out, I'm eating worse, so all that they kind of go hand in hand. But when you can I usually find it begins with exercise, and then pretty soon I start seeing some result, and then I want to kind of supercharge it with diet. I think diet's like 80% of it. I really do. I could be wrong. And and and at least for at least for me, very simply, it's calories in, calories out.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Do you have what do you do you have any kind of tips or tricks, like non-negotiables on like what you eat, what you don't eat, or the best way to make sure you're staying in a deficit?

SPEAKER_00 28:41

So I've I I think I've gone in a couple different I mean honestly, like the the the most effective one, and it's so shocking that it's been so effective, it actually just is counting calories. And here's why is that we vastly underestimate. I think they I think estimates are we underestimate the calories we consume by like 30 to 40 percent or something like that. And so it's because I forgot, oh that's right, I did take a spoonful of peanut butter, or actually, you know, peanut butter and you don't like peanut butter, so this is which is it's insanity. It's an odd, it's very odd thing. But what happens is we we see the serving size says 190 calories for two tablespoons, and we think we're putting two tablespoons, we actually just put on three and a half.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

Seven bites later.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Yeah, exactly. And so we keep and so all of a sudden, when I began to do that without any judgment of how much the calories were, just to know, I started realizing like, oh, I'm I'm way I'm way in the in the positive on a or or I'm you know on a in a caloric surplus here. So, and then you know, people can go on and they can see what like for your body type your weight, what's what's your kind of your break-even, and then how can you stay under it? But for me, that was the biggest one was just beginning with how many calories I am I consuming.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

I would jokingly and like proudly say for years that calories weren't real. Uh like almost like germs. It's like, I don't know, I'll wipe that sandwich on the ground and not get sick. You know what I mean? But then because I would think, Joey, like if you get on a treadmill and you go hard for like, you know, 10 minutes, it's like you burned 80 calories. And I'm like, dude, my first bite of the sausage roll is 120 calories. There's no way calories are real.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

And I'm like, like, and I eat a lot. So it'd be like, I'm eating seven, I should weigh 600 pounds. Yeah. But it's it is shocking what you're saying because I got I got serious about it a few years ago. A guy really recommended it and actually started like count what actually are macros, what's it look like, you know, the whole thing. And it is fascinating. It's like you're it's like your budget in your bank. You know what I mean? It's like you you have a thousand in there, don't spend more than a thousand. That's right. You know what I mean? Like this is what you're gonna burn. This is what's right for you. Yeah, and if we'll really do it, and the great thing, like with AI and everything, there's there's a lot of good trackers. But I started doing I this is a couple weeks ago, even I just wrote down what I ate that day and sent it to a friend. And without saying anything, he just sent his back. I love that. The best thing on his was track food. His daughter had a track meet, and I'm like, he didn't want to track food, he didn't want to specify corn dogs. It's like fair food, you know what I mean? But then I just plugged it into AI, my list, and it gave, you know, within a couple hundred calories. You that was 2,600 calories, you were in your deficit.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

See that, see that it's really easy. Counting calories can be feel like an unsustainable thing to do, and it because it is, but if you can give yourself a little grace there and be like, I'm close enough, like I'm ballparking here. Like you you want to make sure that you're not, you know, that you're you not don't think you're getting two, but you're actually getting 3,800 or something like that. But if you can so using some of those tools to help you find that trajectory, kind of where you are. I I will say the the supercharge for me became when you combine counting calories with how much protein I want in a day. Yeah, because then you start talking about like like the budgeting. I start realizing realizing, okay, I got to get 200 grams of protein today. So I got to use my calories really wisely. So I actually can't afford right now, I can't afford these chips at the Mexican restaurant because that's I mean, that that'll put you way over the top. I can't afford two to seven hundred calories right now. I'm not gonna have any room left for my for my protein. So to me, when you can begin to supercharge that, and thinking of this iteratively, I think you can make a massive amount of gain just by beginning with with that, and then it begins to switch. I have a sugar, a sugar tooth, and so it makes it easier when it's within a larger context of calories. I find when I eliminate my vices, it's really helpful. But if I realize, like, okay, well, that was going towards a calorie count that was unsustainable for me.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

I think I've got a buddy that's lost a lot of weight, gained a lot of weight. Um, and so if if there's anybody listening, like he'll say, Man, collectively, I've lost 1,308 pounds because he's done it 10 times, right? But I do think a thing that really does help is to just say, like, like for real, by the 4th of July, I do want to look like this. Let's back it out and say what's actually needed to get 20-mile market. Yeah, right. That's why, that's why that's a foundational piece. But there's something so fun about that and so rewarding. Nate Bargatzi on his show, he just goes, Man, I had a goal to lose this amount of weight by the time the show started. He goes, Oh, show just started. You know what I mean? It's like, but so let's not do that. But there's something too like discipline begets discipline.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

And that's where I come back on the fitness side of things. It's like, let's let's be disciplined enough to say, this is what I will do and this is what I won't do. Because I know for me, like when I work out in the morning, there's a real good chance I'm gonna read the word right after that. And there's a real good chance I'm gonna join a little bit. There's a real like because there's discipline implemented, and I think physical discipline is something that you really can track and do, yeah, but then it leads to the other disciplines that we have to have in our lives to be our best.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Is there when you think about your kids, is there is there an unhealthy version of this that you want to be careful about passing on? Unhealthy relationship with food, unhealthy relationship with with exercise. Is there a balance there that you find yourself dancing with?

SPEAKER_02 34:13

I'll tell you where Molly has been a great conviction is I really like, like after a game, I like to get them a treat. And I'm I'm still figuring this one out because it's so fun to run into Quick Trip or the dollar store or something like that and be like, man, today you get two treats. You had a home run, you had a you know what I mean? And so, but what I'm inadvertently doing is associating good times and happy with bad food. Wow. When I'm happy, I go eat. When I do well, I I should reward myself with things that aren't actually good for me. Wow. And so I have started proposing, I'll tell you what, you play great today, and it's not even winning, but it's like, hey, if if great attitude, listen to coach, play your hardest, then you don't have to do the dishes on Tuesday night, which is a little more healthy than right, right, sour patch kids.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

So I think that's something that that we've worked on a little bit. Like there is something just so natural and fun about like, hey, we're heading to this, let's get ice cream on the way. That is like I I don't want to take those away altogether, but I don't want that to be the only association. Yeah. Like, like sweets or food that's not good for you can't be the reward for most things. Yeah, that's good. What about you guys?

SPEAKER_00 35:23

You got to Again, Kristen is a great governor for this, but I have I again, I do, again, I jokingly mentioned growing up as a little chubby kid, and I do carry that with me. And so I I have to be really, really, really careful. And I will say I I fail a fair amount on this in not passing down an unhealthy relationship with food to my kids. I work very well with extremes. Like it just for me, it makes it a lot easier to go, I'm not having sugar right now, I'm not eating sugar this month, or something like that, versus relying on my own willpower to stop at one portion. Kristen and I, one of the first dates we went on, she left two bites on her plate, and I thought she was like a magician. I was I'd never seen anybody eat so much of their food and not finish it. I just didn't know how she did it. You're so close. I mean because it was celebrated. I don't know how you're so close. It was so celebrate. Clean plate club was a celebration at my house growing up. And so it was so I I do believe that I have some kind of an unhealthy relationship there that I'm working to regulate. And I actually think I'm gonna very healthy place with food. Like my extremes to me are healthy. That that's a healthy way for me to live because I live best there, but it can it's very easily misinterpreted as an unhealthy sugar wholesale bad. I should never have sugar. No, no, that's not true. So I do balance, I do fight that, I do struggle with that. I do like the idea. I think we've gotten into health as um thinking a little bit more of than strength versus fat avoidance. You know what I mean? I think that's good, like hard to kill, like I like that, and so I think that's been a helpful piece of it. But yeah, I I have to be I have to be very, very careful and let again, Kristen is so moderate one minor dessert serving and she's fine. Where if I have a bowl of ice cream, I'm having six. You know what I mean? So it's um there is a there is a bunch of that of of being careful not to pass that down.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

You kind of went here earlier. Do you have like some minimum standards for your fitness that you kind of always want to like like for me at one point I'm like I always want to be able to bench 225 at least 10 times? Like for me, that's like okay, that means I'm I've stayed I've stayed strong in that regard. I always want to be able to squat 315. I always want to, you know, whatever. So, but but I there's probably some other ones I should have, like that's a great question. Maybe keeping up with like, man, I always want to be able to run under seven-minute mile anytime, you know, or or or whatever. Could I just run for an hour? Do you have anything like that in place?

SPEAKER_00 37:52

I love that. I mean I I mean I probably look at weight as a barometer, which is kind of an unfair barometer because it's not taking into account body mass. Yeah, but I really like that. I I I mean, even people listening, I love like putting comments like what what is like what kind of uh what are those standards that would be helpful to abide by. I love that idea.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Well, and then maybe because I think you're right on like if if you want to change the way you look, it will be your diet.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

And and I I actually hate that that's the reality, yeah, because I like working out, yeah, and I don't like restraints on diet. And so, but I I think that would be an interesting standard too.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

You know, it's like, okay, I want to be able to I can always bench over 300, that's great. But I I also will have a minimum standard.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

Like, man, I'm I'm just gonna make sure I get this much protein. I'm just gonna make sure I don't have this much surplus of of sugar.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

That's good.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

But then also I I like the idea of like it's not a cheat meal. Let's just look at it like I've decided on the 4th of July, I like to eat banana pudding.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

And I train really well so that I can enjoy that.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

But a friend of ours, David Pollock, fitness guy, NFL guy, the whole thing, we ate a big meal one night and I loved it. We were on a golf trip, like, did not have to have any discipline. Ate a real big Italian meal. The next day we're playing golf, and I offered to buy him a snack, and he goes, Oh, I had a big meal last night, and today I'm just kind of getting back on track. I'm just not gonna eat for a while. And it, but but I my takeaway was what a great way to like like the immediately dialed back in.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

He enjoyed the meal. Yeah, didn't say anything about it, didn't make a big deal about, oh, I'm cheating tonight. That's good. But but the next day recalibrated a little bit, did a little intermittent fasting just to get right back to where he wanted to get, and that's a rhythm.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

I think that's the trick, is we do get so extreme. That's right. And there might be some intervals of that to kind of like as a catalytic event. But then what's the actual healthy rhythm of of when you eat, what you eat, when you lift? And I think if we can find that, it's really cool to kind of say, this is me at my best, and here's a process to actually get to it. So good.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

All right, let's make it simple. Let's break it down just just for for all of us. We all know a brave and big life always starts with a small step. So for somebody listening, what is that? What is that this week small step they can take?

SPEAKER_02 40:16

I love the idea of deciding how many times you're gonna do something physical. Yep. Let's just make that decision. Yeah. And if you're already there, like what's the is it your best? It's like, man, I've been working out three. You might say, you know what? I I listen to this, I'm a little bit motivated, let's go four. Yeah. I like that. So that would be one is is how much physical activity will you commit to. And then I also just love the real simple idea of of in what you're eating, what will you eat this week and what won't you eat this week. If you, if you I I have a pastor buddy and he goes, man, I got in a bad spot. We just had ice cream every night. Yeah, and I gained 12 pounds. So I it's it's a cool thought of like a little bit of pruning. Yeah. Like, man, this week, you don't have to do this forever, but these next seven days, I'm just not gonna have dessert. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

I love that too. I do.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

Just a little bit of it, it's not even a full fast, but I'm fasting something. Yeah. And there's a little bit that's like, I am disciplined, I am in control of what goes in my body, I will steward it well. Yeah. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 41:22

I mean, two, two for me. I'll go physical and I'll go, excuse me, I'll go fitness and then diet. The one on the on the the fitness, if you're not, if you don't have a someone, could be your wife on a walk, it could be your you know, your buddy in the gym, like find somebody to align on fitness with. Please don't do it on your own. The the second thing would be if you've thought about this, if you think your diet may be off, literally, don't even make a change to your diet. Literally count calories. Just write down and quantify how many calories and just see over the over the the over a week, be honest with yourself. It may be a lot more manual labor than you want. And maybe it is, I hate 12 tortilla chips or something like that. Please write it down, but capture all of that and just look over the course of a week, and then at the end of the week, you can look and see where, you know, if I want to be in a caloric deficit, where is that? How many how many grams of protein? So I would say probably it would be calories and protein. Maybe week one is calories, maybe week two is calories and protein. Maybe beyond that is you saying, okay, where's my caloric deficit and how many grams of protein do I want? For me, and that may sound complicated, but you can take it small and small iterative steps, I think it becomes more manageable.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

I have a strong suspicion that if all of us could ask our 70-year-old selves what they wish we would do right now, well, taking care of our physical body would be towards the top. So good. More time with family, do something, impact the world, all that stuff. But that our future self is counting on us doing it right now, yes, so that at 70, we're enjoying our life, enjoying grandkids, actually able to function and continue to contribute.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

That's a perfect way to close it because what you're doing right now, you're taking a brave step today so you can live a big life later. Let's go. Okay, real quick, triple S for us. Subscribe, share, star, give us five stars wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you so much for joining us this week on Brave and Big. Brave and Big is produced by Stonest Podcast and the brilliant Miles All Britton. We will see you next week.