Balance Is a myth: Building Your Daily Spiritual Rhythms

Most of us admire other people's discipline and never build our own. Joey Odom and Chris Hart spend this episode on the fix: a daily spiritual rhythm simple enough that you'll actually keep it.

Joey grew up in church and somehow never read the Bible all the way through until he was about 40, when a friend's offhand comment finally gave him permission to start. Chris built a 5 a.m. rhythm six years ago and learned the hard way that discipline begets discipline. Between them they walk through what a real daily practice looks like, how it has shifted across seasons of life, and why the goal is not a perfect routine but a sustainable one.

Then the heart of it: prayer is not a performance. It is a kid talking to a father who just wants to hear their voice. They get honest about the years they struggled to pray, the simple models that finally unlocked it, and why getting filled up in the morning is the only way you'll have anything to pour out the rest of the day.

In this episode:
— Why you keep admiring discipline instead of building it, and the one thing that changes that — Chris's five-five-five starting point: read for five, write for five, pray for five — How "discipline begets discipline" lets you stack a spiritual rhythm onto a habit you already have — Why Joey reads a paper Bible in big chunks instead of grabbing the catchy verse — A simple way to pray when you don't know how, built around a father who wants to hear your voice — Be selfish in the morning so you can be selfless all day — Why a local church is part of the rhythm, not an optional add-on — The five-year journal that turns ordinary days into a record of what God did

This week's small step: Pick your wake-up time and protect 20 minutes. Run the five-five-five: read for five, write for five, pray for five. Do it for one week. Then find one person to do it with and text each other a check mark when you finish, so you're building it together instead of alone.
Be Brave. Live Big.

REFERENCED IN THIS EPISODE The Bible Project. The Bible Recap by Tara-Leigh Cobble. Brother Lawrence, The Practice of the Presence of God. James Clear, Atomic Habits.
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FOLLOW THE HOSTS
Joey Odom — @joeyodom.life; www.joeyodom.life
Chris Hart — @thechrishart · @thebravecoaches; www.bravecoaches.com
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Produced by Sonus Podcasts · sonuspodcasts.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Welcome to Brave and Big, where we talk about living a Brave and Big Life. I'm Joey Odom, husband to Kristen, dad to Harrison and Gianna, speaker, former tech co-founder, and author.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

I'm Chris Hart, husband to Molly, dad to Blakely, Cooper, Landry, and my son Brave. I'm the CEO and founder of the Brave Group and Brave Performance Agency. Joey and I have been having these talks for 25 years, and we're better for it. We believe the same will be true for you. Enjoy this episode. Be brave and live big.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

We had a couple different names that we were tossing around for the pod.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

I liked that a lot. Tell them why though. Well, there it was multifaceted. We had um we had a guy in college. Anytime he would see us, he was like, oh, players club's open. Players club's wide open today. Players club's open. So it's just so so you also are prolifically called people player, which I love. What's up, player? Player, player, player. And we had there are a couple other reasons. One of them was also like just generally this idea that life is better with two players that you think about growing up playing Contra.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Up, up, down, down, left, up, left, right, left, right, B A, B A select start.

SPEAKER_03 1:15

B A select start.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Because it's always two players.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Yeah. Always two players on Contra. You got to get those 30 lives.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

You got to get the also the reason people get called player is I rear-ended a guy on the way to homecoming, and he looked awesome. He got out in a full suit, humongous man, and he looked at me with my suspenders on, and he looks at his car, and he looked back at me and he goes, Hey, this one's on me. Play on play. Play on. And I got in my car and went and picked up my date, and he went his way and he impacted my life right. So who would I to be to not call people players? That's exactly right. It was the best day of my life.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

So good. Yeah. But we land on brave and big, and it really is because, and my goal just for the topic we're going to talk about. I think maybe if there were one thing, if you say, hey, there's one thing I want for you, I think it's this topic. And it's because I want you, I want everybody here to be brave in this topic so that you can live big. And it is, and it is just like meat and potatoes. It is is spiritual disciplines, daily spiritual discipline.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Fundamental basics of winning in life, right?

SPEAKER_03 2:23

That's it. There was uh at ORU where we went to college, there was a sizable gentleman named Kyle Stewart. Yeah. 6'9. 6'9 K Stew. Shelf of a backside. Yeah. Absolutely. K Stew, who's a doctor now, super, super greatest guy in the world. He would, we lived on the same floor. He was on the basketball team. I lived on the basketball floor. So I was basically a D1 athlete.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Pretty much makes you an athlete.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Basically. So I remember Stu every day in the Word. And I remember asking him one day. I said, Stu, I was like, Man, you're so disciplined. Do you miss a day? And he goes, Bro, he's like, I would self-destruct if I missed a day. Gosh. And I remember hearing him thinking, what? Like, what? What do you should like hide his Bible just to see if he'll come bust? Big body. I actually remember thinking, oh, that's cool. And then also not being able to relate to it. I actually didn't, I was not able to relate to it. Again, I I like what he said. I thought it was really cool. And I actually thought, here's what I actually thought about it was I couldn't relate to it, but I thought, oh man, that's cool for you. That's cool for you. So I brought I grew up the Christianist of the Christianist. And 80s Christian boys. Oh, bro. Super. Sign that true love weights card. You know what I mean? Like, did did all you did kiss dating goodbye, didn't you? Absolutely. I mean, a lot of it was was not by choice. I would have kissed dating hello had I been more appealing to the ladies. Big French kiss hello. Went to O R U, right? You know, get get married. And it was it when I was about 40 years old, I was talking with Stan Johnson, who was my employer at the time, who is a super, super guy.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Leader of a great company. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

Just an unbelievable man. And he was Stan was probably about 60 at the time, maybe 65. And I was asking how he was doing. He goes, Man, he goes, I just finished reading my Bible in a year for the first time in my life. And I thought, I'd say, Well, how'd that start? He goes, Well, Diane Pattison, who is one of the advisors of the company, she encouraged me to do it. And I heard that and I thought, okay, I can do that. And I had a realization, bro, Christianist of the Christianist. I had never read my Bible through in a year.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

And it's the thing that we're basing everything in our lives on. Yes. It's the absolute core and foundation. Yeah. And we kind of take it for granted.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Is that what I'm hearing about?

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Yeah, I'd probably get hung up in Leviticus and be like, I don't get this.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

So let's get us some more mark.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

And so there's a and and what was cool about it, that was probably intersecting at a time where we had during COVID, we had been watching a lot of Bible project videos, and the Bible project is really good. And I'd encourage anybody who just go watch Bible project stuff because it's really good. Because what they do is they remind you that this Bible is a story of Jesus. When you're reading Levitical Law and when you're reading about the Israelites going to the promised land, it's talking about Jesus. It's all a story that crescendo's in Jesus. And Andy Stanley talks about this really, really well. He talks about people debate a, you know, a seven-year literal creation or a worldwide flood. And he says, hold on, hold on. If Jesus died and resurrect and was resurrected, it doesn't matter if it was seven days or worldwide flood. Or if he didn't, then it doesn't matter. So the only thing that is the hinge point of all of it, and I think one thing that we get wrong is that we go Genesis to Revelation, and if you can disprove a worldwide flood, then all of a sudden your faith caves in versus saying, no, this is a story that points to Jesus. So it caught me at a moment there where it was almost like the theology was lined up. I was ready for that. And every day since then, with some exceptions, obviously, and I think I'm probably on my fourth or fifth time through right now of reading the Bible in a year, but it was it established a very bite-sized daily discipline for me. And my unabashed goal for people listening here is that you'll walk away and you will say, I now have a daily plan. So I think if I were to say, like, here's the here's the problem that I see, because it's a problem I saw in myself, was I really liked seeing other people doing stuff. And I really thought that was cool for them. And I really kind of wanted it for myself, but I never established a plan. Wow. So I want to, so I think my goal just to set the table for us is that I would I would love to talk about the evolution for both of us, what that's looked like in different seasons of life, what it looks like for you today, how it's evolving, how it changes, all to build confidence in the same way that Diane gave permission to Stan to read the Bible in a year, that Stan gave permission for me to read the Bible in a year, that I encourage people, like, read the Bible in a year. That's just like let's just start there. So I'll start with you. Like, what is your and we can talk about both of ours, but what is what is your current, what is your current daily spiritual disciplines look like? What do you say your current daily disciplines look like?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

I uh I wake up at 4 33 every day, we go do our workout first, which I could probably make a case either way. For me, I actually really like going and being physically active because then I come home and I'm awake. Um I come home, kind of get our kids rolling. Molly takes them to school, and I have 45 minutes where I I read a deal called The Walk. It's a group of guys that are kind of a part of this deal, and we do a different online Bible plan together. There's 140 guys or something in it, and it it just creates the initial jumping in point for my time in the word every day. So I'm awake, I've sent my kids out, I give my kids a little word every morning, and then I get into the word. I read the walk, which is like a set plan with other men, and then I currently read one or two chapters um in the New Testament every day, and I always read the proverb of the day. And then from that, I try to spend five to ten minutes like praying, um, and that kind of sets the tone. So I I pray a gratitude, like God, here's just what I'm thankful for. I say often, I'm like, what a great life.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

And so I spend every morning and I start with that. God, here's what I'm just grateful for. And then I try to make requests for other people, and then I make personal requests of like, this is what I know I have today, this is what I'm excited about, and try to present that to God to start the day. Yeah. I will admit I love it when I journal, and that's probably the thing I need to always do better at. Yep. We talked about it this morning. Journaling's so powerful because you write something down three years later, you see that God did what you asked him to do. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it admittedly, there's been seasons where I've been great at it, and I've, I mean, I've got six journals in my office that are filled up from those seasons. I literally thought last week, I was like, I need to just be disciplined again about journaling. So I'm saying that to everybody, so now I'll do it. Um, but that that's kind of my flow of that 45-minute window. And then from there, I start diving into everything in my day.

SPEAKER_03 9:21

Yeah. Love that. I want to talk about mine, but I want to talk uh real quick, I want to get back on that. How did the that is your current, has that been steady over the years? What is that? How how long is this what you just described, which was pretty recommended. You knew you knew exactly what that that looked like. How has that, how long has it been this current form? How has it ebbed and float over the years?

SPEAKER_00 9:42

The last I've done this for six years. Wow. And honestly, it's it's it's kind of that idea that discipline begets discipline. When we got real serious about what we were gonna do physically every morning, it actually was easy to kind of habit stack on that.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

And I just I so and I I I had to work it out a little bit because I had like coaching calls that would start at 6 30 in the morning, or and so I really tried to move all of those to eight o'clock. It was like sexy to say, oh bro, I've been coaching since 6 a.m. You know what I mean? Like, but it wasn't the best for me. It actually wasn't beneficial. Um, and so I created that space in the morning. So I've done it for six years because we do a 5 a.m. workout, then this is when the kids go to school, and then this is kind of the flow to get right with God. And something that I've I've really done is I really try to like submit my schedule for the day to God. And I learned that from a friend Ryan Llewellyn. But he would just say, like, like what on your current calendar shouldn't be there? Oh, so good. And what's on there that you need a little bit of insight on. Like God, I've got this meeting with Joey today. Man, what what does Joey need?

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 10:55

It's so cool. It's like you get you're telling me you get insight from the creator on how to be your best in every situation. Why would we not do that when we have access to it? Yeah. But to answer your question, that um creating the the established schedule of the morning has been a game changer.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Before that, it was kind of it was just so much more random. I knew I was supposed to do it, so I would kind of flippantly read the proverb and didn't have a set plan and wasn't doing it with other people. And you know what I mean? So creating that exact, disciplined rhythm. And again, I don't naturally like that. Yes, I would rather feel fluid and I do what I want, and I'm spontaneous. It's just not sustainable.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

And you so it's like I miss three days. Well, because you don't have a plan.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

So good. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. What do you do? It has been, and this has been pretty similar for the last, again, probably for the last five years, has been at the beginning of the year, I will choose a Bible plan to read through the year. And it is, it's very often, you know, Genesis to Revelation. Sometimes it'll be a mix of Old Testament, New Testament, Psalm, Proverb, every day. I I actually really like. I think the thing that I find myself naturally gravitating to most is chronological, where you'll be reading like a little bit of Samuel and Kings on the same day. You're getting different perspectives as the same of the same stories. You do the Bible recap? No, is that Terry Lee Cobble? Yeah, I just started it. Um I mean I've heard it's amazing, and she's she is a powerhouse. She's awesome. Um so the I don't, and I've heard it's great. So the um the thing for me on that is is going through going through that chronologically, getting in, having the the printed, I printed out, I print out the plan. I just know here's what my day is three or four chapters a day. And that has been, you would think, you really would, you would think that would get old. But I mean it's been a year since I've read Deuteronomy, so I don't remember the stuff in Deuteronomy. What's cool, and I will I I got I'm careful with this, I'm always reading a paper Bible. So I I even when we travel, we're in Nashville right now. I bring my paper Bible with me because I just know my tendency. If it's on my phone, I'm gonna get sidetracked by a text. I'm just going to. And so I can't for my own discipline. I set up that environment to make sure that I'm it's a distraction-free moment. And I will tell you, and again, word of God is living and active.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

It's, I mean, I'm writing a book right now on the parable of the sower and how what Jesus talked about then actually was talking about our phones today. And that's as a result of reading through it and just kind of sitting on it. Yep. Like, wait a second, Jesus said the thorns are the worries of life. That sounds kind of like Twitter in the news. Oh, Jesus said the pleasures of life, which that sounds kind of like gambling or porn. The pleasures of life also Jesus says is the desires for other things, which it's like, okay, wait a second, the desires for other things, that that sounds kind of just like distraction that we find on our phone. The deceitfulness of wealth sounds like comparison on Instagram. And so you think, and that's all as a result of years of digesting it.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

I remember though when you read that and started having the revelation, which is the proof of like you had wrestled with it like that morning.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Like, man, I think there's something here. And then you came out, that's like, man, it's called digital thorns. Like, well, but I think that that I I I pause you there just for a second because I don't know that I've had a day where I get in the word and there's not some wild practical application for it that day.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

A conversation you have at lunch, it's like, man, actually, what I read this morning, yeah, it's crazy. And so then you think about not having that in your arsenal, like not being ready. Like we're supposed to like a ready word.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Because people don't need your word from two years ago when you used to have a good quiet time.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Man, that's so good. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

It's like, man, what what do you need for today?

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

And I I love your point. It's like, yeah, it's been a year since Deuteronomy. I've I've read the Proverb of the Day for 25 years or something. And it's so great. You come back to Proverbs 16, it's like, oh, I like this one. You know what I mean? But it's been a month. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

And what's cool about the Proverbs, I had this revelation on Proverbs. You start getting into like the later half, the latter half of Proverbs, and he starts saying things like, you know, a jackal is unto the the, you know, whatever. It's like he's like making these, like, what is he talking about? And what I found in Proverbs was those are meant to be read very slowly so that you can pod, like, what is he actually saying here? Because wisdom is hidden. And so it's meant to be gone, it's you, it's it's supposed to go through slowly. So I will find, I say I go through the Bible every year. There may be the first three months of the year. Instead, I just say, I'm just gonna sit on a proverb a day, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna read in the gospel, and then when I hit something, I'm just gonna sit on it for a second. So for me, but generally it's that, I will tell you, and then every day for the last seven years I've done a five-year journal. Journaling I always wanted to do, and so to make this super practical, there's a five-year journal. You can find them everywhere. The brand I use is called Levenger, and it's five lines that you write down something every single day. So, what it did for me was that it took the friction out of journaling because I can just say, Oh, I can write down what happened yesterday every day, five lines from that. Kristen got me onto this, and so then, but what's cool, like you said, it's just like, oh, that's a that was a reminder that whatever that season I was in, good or bad, ended, and that now I'm in a different season. And that is an awesome, unbelievable thing to go through. And I know there's also part of it that says, I know that someday grandkids are gonna read this.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Yeah, so it's kind of one of those things, like those journals, like if the house is burning down, it's like, man, my revelations, yes, it it's it's almost like in the old testament, something amazing would happen and they would put a notch on their staff. Yeah, that's what the journal becomes. Yeah, they'd they'd go build a little monument in the river and be like, Man, this is what got that's what the journal is. Yeah, that's why I'm like convicted at the beginning. It's like, man, I need to, you know, but there's something to that, and I also like, you know, when you're talking about reading the Bible through in a year, there's something about reading chunks at a time.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

And I I'm telling you, there's power in that. Like the goal is to be washed by the word. And a lot of times we'll read like the catchy verse. Somebody's got some cool, you know, zippy statement about it.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

But then you it's like, no, I read four chapters of the Bible and I got the full context for what was happening in that season or that moment, and now I have now I can actually have revelation on it.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Sometimes when we're just getting like constant quick hitters, which is the world, yeah, you don't you don't get the context or the full revelation. Man. And so when you I mean, I've read four chapters, now I'm actually sitting in it. I've been washed by the word. My brain is processing differently because of of not just the the quickness of it, but man, that there was a there was a full like continuum of of grabbing the word, yeah, and now I can walk that out.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

I I done and maybe say this carefully. I don't want to be the type of person, the type of Jesus follower whose faith hinges only on Jeremiah 29, 11. I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, give you hope in the future. Great. He also said he was gonna curse them and just completely wipe them out if they didn't follow the terms, right? And so what we like to your point, where he we cling on to these things. And so that's why for me, so like I don't want to, this is not us puffing out our chest, this is as a result of wrestling through this for a long time. And along with that is an admission that I have for years struggled with prayer, and I haven't really known how to pray. I really don't. Like I um, so there the the most recent, I have a couple recent examples. One of them is someone just said something that I knew, but the way she said it, this was Misty Heath's wife, Misty Wilson. She said, She said, Yeah, when we pray, we talk to God and we read the Bible, He talks to us. And I thought, okay, I like that. And you know, and and so I so I I have begun recently, just in before I read before I read the Bible, I actually am opening up, and I know you have all these forms, the prayer and all this kind of stuff, but for me, it's just I'm God, I'm just gonna talk to you about what's going on. I'm just gonna tell you kind of like what's happening, and then I'm gonna believe as I read that you're gonna that you're gonna give give that to me, not only through what I'm reading, but through the Holy Spirit in me that's that's activating it. So, and I I will in a second to share a story that we've heard recently on prayer, but I I maybe for somebody who's listening and I don't know how to pray. And again, Jesus says, Here's how you pray Lord's prayer stuff, but for you, this is a struggle of mine. So actually, I mean here's I'll say this way advise me on hey, I'm I struggle with prayer.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

I think what we're doing right now is the model. There's a there's a back and forth with it. Um and time spent equals intimacy. You know, so I love that idea. When I first got saved, the first like little little hint that I was given was the analogy or the what's it acronym? Yes when the letters yeah, is that yeah, uh the P is praise, God, I'm praising you. The R is repent. God, I apologize. I I the A is ask. Man, what are you actually asking God for? Right? Ask, seek, knock, and the Y is yield to your point, kind of sit in it. Yeah, and man, I learned that like I think it was like the third day I was saved, and I think about it today. Wow. It's like I want to enter his courts with Thanksgiving, enter his courts with praise. God, I that's why worship's great. That's why we worship first in a service. And and then, man, God, I'm I I'm sorry. God, I here's what I apologize for. God, you know what I was thinking about yesterday. You know what, you know. But then we're asking God, and you have not because you asked not. And I I I really want to encourage everybody, like, I think a lot of times we don't feel worthy, but it's like, man, no, you you come with confidence to your father. Yeah. And there's listen, there's times where my kids come with confidence, there's times when they don't because they they did something, because they, you know what I mean, like whatever it might be. But like if we can encourage every anybody, it's like he's a good father. And and we know, I mean, being a dad has revolutionized my perspective on God. He has identified himself as a father. So when it comes to prayer, I just think about what the the the intimate moments that I love when when I'm looking my kids in the eyes and we're having a conversation and they're asking me for advice or ask of I absolutely says he doesn't withhold any good thing like I don't want to with my kids. Right. And he's a way better father than I am. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And so I think that's it. So so there is the praise, there is the repent, but I I love the idea of like, let's be confident in asking God, man, God, this this is what I'm believing for Joey right now. Yeah. This is what I'm believing for our company, it's what I'm believing for my wife. God, I'm asking you for these things. And then I really do love the idea. It's crazy, but if you will just like sit in silence for three to five minutes. It's amazing what starts to flow. Wow. And again, I have to like discipline myself to that because I don't do that in any other moment of my life. Yeah. I'd rather call somebody or text somebody or listen, you know, but it's like it's pretty the peace that comes. That's why I think all these other things of yoga and meditation, and there's something to creating a little bit of space, and especially when you've read and you've prayed and you've asked, and you give God space. Because this is what I believe, Joey. We we ask God questions, and I think that's what holds people up. They're like, man, I don't hear God. It's like stop. Ask God questions and then write down answers. Yeah. To your point of journaling. Like, like, God, I'm I'm curious, man. What should I do? We're considering moving. It's a big decision. It's, you know, whatever it is, that time with God. And I'm telling, and I oftentimes I don't have like this full-on strap plan.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

But he will say something. I do have an indicator. I do, you know, something. And then the plan kind of continues to come together as time is spent. Yeah. And what do you know? It's in the right timing. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

And that's how God works. I I've found I have found myself recently. Again, we're I'm isolating prayer slightly to a quiet time right now. And I mentioned, we mentioned on another episode this idea, this relationship model, how we form relationships, proximity, which leads to interaction, which leads to dependence, which leads back to proximity. So the PID loop. And I've found myself in those moments where I may otherwise have noise. Jump in the shower and put music on, be in the car. Instead, thinking, like, okay, how can I put myself in proximity to God right now? And just, I mean, just again, that old testament uh is it Samuel? Just say, I'm here. Yeah. Just say, just say, just even saying that's to God, but it's also to myself, saying, God, I am here placing myself in proximity to you. Be quiet just for a second, and then just begin that interaction. Just be, hey, here's what's going on. God, thanks for this. Thanks. And then allowing that dependence to form as a result.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

It's kind of like when you're playing a sport, I'll tell my kids this, you know, like it's intense, you're getting after it. But then there's all these moments through a game where you can catch your breath.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

And I I I would almost encourage, like, let's treat prayer, let's be real intentional with prayer at times, and then also let prayer be all those in-between moments.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Man, just I just came out of a big meeting. I'm catching, man, I'm praying on the way to the water fountain and I'm praying on the way back. Okay, God. It's it's just this little moments of reset. Yeah. Yeah. When you jump in the car, it's been a wild day, you're driving home exhausted to try to be a good parent. Yeah. That's that, that's that throw-in moment where it's like I can catch my breath right here.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Gotta give thank you for what happened already today. Thank you for those deals that are proceeding right now. Think of your favors on it. And then God, I need this strength, wisdom, and alignment to be a great dad for the next two hours. All of a sudden, like we're we're just inviting and creating the space. So we're talking like a rhythm with this. Yeah. And that's what's like balance is a joke. When I would travel internationally, there was no balance with my family. I was just in another country. But the rhythm is how I leave, how I return. That's rhythm. Yeah. Rhythm spiritually, I think, is that there's these set, super focused, intentional times. Create that. Get up early, like make it work, protect it. Yeah. And the real rhythm of it is all of these incremental moments through the day that you just bring God into. Yeah. You know, last night we prayed for three guys at pickleball because a guy would say, Hey, brother, you can just pray for him and say, whoa, whoa. I won't tomorrow, but I absolutely will with you right now. Let's pray.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

You know what I'm saying? Cool incremental moment. Right. And then hopefully I think about them tomorrow, shoot them a text and pray for them. I love that. But I just think let's let's find these times of like refreshing and refocusing, recalibrating, because there's a rhythm with God all day.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

There's a book called Practicing the Presence of God. It's by Brother Lawrence. I think he was like a 14th century monk or something like that. It's very small pamphlet, and I love I read it in college. And it was it was him basically saying, Can I keep God in my consciousness every moment of the day? And again, back to this proximity, interaction, dependence. Like, what if we're just aware of that? That will change your life. I mean, that that that and which is a just that recognition, you're here with me. That's a prayer. Like I I will say one of one of the hesitations I've had in in prayer is, and I know it's I know the fallacy in it as I say it is just like, is this really prayer worthy? You know, so I I we were talking with a friend last night, uh a mutual friend of ours, and I was talking with him, and he was talking about his children. He has um and he has a son who is nonverbal. He's nine years old, autistic, nonverbal. And he was talking about being, you know, he's talking about the difficulty of that, and he was talking about what it's what he's learned about God in the process. And bro, it took my breath away what he said when he's talking about his son. He goes, I just think about how desperately I want to hear my son's voice. And man, he got me he and I both, you know, tears in our eyes as we're as we're talking about it. And he just said, and that's just that's that's what God the Father wants from us. He just he wants to hear our voice so badly, not eloquently, not pre-thought, not formalized.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

He wants to hear his child's voice. I mean, I I mean we're both tough guys and about to cry right here, but it's like that's he desperately wants to hear it. I I think about my kids will wake up and I'll I'll hear like my son brave. I'll hear his, I can tell it's him because it's like dunk dunk dunk and it's running. And I'm I'm so excited. And it's not because he's gonna say something great, he's gonna come over and give me a hug and say, What's up, dad? And tell me some ridiculous dream about a dinosaur. And I want to hear every detail of it. Yes, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, so I I love where how you made that correlation. Like, is this prayer worthy? You're talking about you're talking to your father that specifically and uniquely created you, man, and wants to hear how you're processing buying that car, and wants to hear how you're thinking about being a good parent and how to how to be a son right now. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's there's nothing like um beautiful or ornate about it. It's raw because it's your dad.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

And I don't even know. I mean, there's something in this about just that that idea of the voice. I my my grandpa, who was the strongest guy I knew, he passed away a few years ago. And it was probably a year before he probably a year before he passed away and he had he had cancer, and I went to Arizona to be with him to spend the day with him. And I sat there with him and I just said, Can I can I record? Can I and so I just for hours he just told his story and I don't know exactly the content or the substance, but I know there's something so sweet about just hearing his voice saying any words. And so you think about that, and you think like if God it really is a great father, I was my grandfather, but just like the power of the voice, I don't it did the just that when Harrison was born, Kristen was um Kristen had an 18-hour labor, it was a vicious labor. Kristen is 4'11 and 34ths, pre-pregnancy 102 pounds, married a 6'5, 220 guy. I I told her after after the nine-pound Harrison was born, I told her she had to find a smaller father for the second one because the first one was too big. But but we are we're sitting out there, she gets taken in for an emergency C section. I can't be in the operating room, they had to put her under, and so I'm sitting there in this hallway all by myself, and it had been a brutal day, and I just said, I said, God, I said it's been, and luckily this is pre-phone, so I was it was just me, and I luckily I didn't scroll it away. So I just said, God, this has been the hardest day of our lives. Will you show me your goodness? And you know, three minutes later, I hear the most beautiful sound I'd ever heard, which was my son crying in the next room. As I lean my head back, I got tears streaming down my face, and I I experienced the goodness of God in a way I never had, but it all began with the sound of a voice. And so for me, I'm even challenged, not just in this, and it's great. If it's in your mind, great, but even just like that, let's just that verbalization and just okay, the words aren't great, like you said, they're not eloquent, but it's just the voice. And if that really truly is, like what if that thrills the heart of a father? Well, and and I mean real quick, like in the the Bible talks about, and I believe in Revelation, it talks about it does, it talks about the throne room of God. This is so beautiful, and it talks about the it talks about the the words coming up as an aroma. Yeah, how cool is that? Like our prayers being an aroma to God, like it's it's sensory when our Jesus is seated at the right hand of God, just like ready on our behalf, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Speak, let me make it happen for you. Yeah, and then to that point, you go into the power of words, and how did all of this come to be in the first place? God spoke. So, us remaining silent out of any kind of insecurity of bringing us to God is actually anti-God. It's anti-how He created us to be. Communicate. And there's something too, man, faith is a result of us speaking. Right? Like that, that's the reality, man. We speak the word, it stirs our faith and activates things into existence. Yeah, man, let there be light. So I'm saying, God, I'm this I'm making my request to you, God, let there be peace in my home. God, thank you for opportunity today in my job. Yeah, right. Like we're speaking it, and man, then God, the aroma is going up. Jesus is at the right hand, ready to make it happen.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Or we could be insecure and quiet, not have the moment, be out of rhythm, not make that a premium in our life, and never reap the benefit.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

The level up from here, again, Second Peter talks about this, the ladder of virtues. It talks about it, you know, it says goes to this ladder, like add to your faith knowledge after your knowledge, goodness, and it goes all the way up. And then the ultimate crescendo, like nine layers up, is love. So if our faith is not resulting in love for somebody else, then it we're stifled. If we're just a lot of us, we'll just stop, we stop at faith, we get a little bit of knowledge. I would argue for myself, you could very easily, you could very easily start your day with the word, and that's the end of it. And you're like two, you're like two levels up on a nine-level, you know, video game here. So I believe the level up, and this is what we should all be doing, is the the hopefully the end result of this is us being going out and then having be having the aware having the awareness to love others and speak life into them. I was on a plane a couple weeks um a couple months ago, and it bro, it's I mean, this is universal. It's not like God happened to seat me next to two people who were going through an issue in their life, right? It's just that all of a sudden, and I believe, again, we can talk about this on a different episode. My I believe the greatest impediment to us walking alongside Jesus in love is the distraction of our phones. But I have a very firm conviction in that. And so I make it an effort. If I'm in line, if I'm at a restaurant, do everything I can to not be looking at my phone and looking up for an opportunity to then attend to a need that God's put in front of us. But what you will find if you begin to take that faith and then it doesn't just stay for yourself and your own edification, and you take those prayers, and then you're able to impart that to somebody else and ask that question, like, hey man, can I pray for you? It would it be okay. Gosh, you know what? I believe that I believe that God has really good things in your marriage right now. So I I think that that I it would be interesting, you're really good at this, but how can I believe that's actually probably for you is a daily spiritual rhythm that we may not call a daily spiritual rhythm, but that's that's just that's quiet time, that's Bible reading, prayer, and then attending to the needs of others, show them the love of Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Well, think about it like this like the reality is I think a lot of people are walking around on empty, and so even if they had the wherewithal to see a moment, a lot of people aren't prepared to operate or function or give the juice that's needed in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

And so one thing we'll say is like you've got to be selfless in the morning. I'm sorry, I said it wrong. You gotta be self-ish in the morning to be selfless the rest of the day. Like it selfish as in like this is my time to get filled up. I'm gonna get to that point of absolute overflow so that I can pour out the rest of the day.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

There is a lot gonna be required of you that you're gonna make decisions, you're gonna make moves, you're gonna hire people, you're gonna fire people, you're gonna love your kids, you're gonna see strangers in a line and have a good, ready word for them if we can get you filled up in the morning and actually operate from overflow. Yeah. Another interesting thing, and we can go here somewhat quickly, but it'd be it'd be probably wrong to talk about spiritual rhythms and not talk about our flow with a local church. You gonna go there for a minute? Yeah, yeah. I was on staff at my church, Guts Church for 15 years. We still attend there, we're elders, and I can honestly say, as far as like the rhythm of my life spiritually, the flow of my church, my family's church, so many of my friends are there. Like it's interesting, all the all the prayer, time in the morning, all that kind of stuff. But then being in community with other Christians and having like a responsibility there, like a pouring out there. The Bible says, Man, those who are planted in the house of the Lord, man, they flourish in the courtyards of our God. So there's something to being planted that just adds to everything else we're talking about. Yeah. Man, this is where I serve, this is where I pour out, this is where a lot of like purpose can be revealed. This is where we serve other people. So I don't know, speak to that. You've you've moved a little bit, yeah. You've had to plug into new local churches, but how about that as kind of one of these key elements of a spiritual rhythm?

SPEAKER_03 36:54

That's really good. That did, and and again, I think we're talking there's there's so much of this, and we could talk it through a a lot more of it too, because I think there's a side track side note to this. I remember going to church camp and you'd have this great church camp experience. And then I remember sitting almost like a little jaded in high school, it's like, yeah, but most of these kids are just gonna go back and go back to drinking. And and so I almost discounted a church camp experience. But if you can look at a church camp experience as a as a vital piece, like my dad shared this with me. This is a vital piece in spiritual development that you can't rely on until the next year, but it is an that is a vital piece to have an experience like that. Oh, and yeah, you do need to go get in the Bible on a daily basis. You do need to be in the church on a weekly basis. You need to listen to the newsboys, even not at youth camp. You know what I mean? Get them, let them get you fired up, man.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Carmen's calling, bro.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

We did listen to some Carmen this morning. Jammed out, getting ready for the pod. So it it's I think this is a and I don't want people to hear this necessarily. We have such an aversion right now to legalism. We're not talking about legalism, we're talking about no, this is for your good and for your edification to be in a place of a bunch of flawed people that God loves desperately.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 38:11

And so we, and I know a lot of people have a lot of church hurt, and I and I don't, you know, I don't have we don't have the time to speak to that, but I do think to your point, being in that is so important, and I will give massive credit to my daughter Gianna on this, is that we were at a church that we really, really loved in Knoxville, and it just there was some friction there. Um, legitimately, logistically, it was just too far from our house. And so we found ourselves, uh, we'll just watch online this morning. So I spoke last year at Passion City Church in Atlanta, and when we were there, Gianna afterwards, in tears, she's 15 at the time, she goes, Dad, she goes, can we find a church like that in Knoxville? And so we looked and we said, okay, where where is the right fit for us that removes a lot of that friction? And we landed on a church, smaller church called Heart and Soul. I love Austin Coleman's a pastor there, one of the best communicators I've heard. He's so good. But it's and so then we said, okay, now let's now Kristen got in a small group, and now she led the way there. So Gianna led it, and we found that we Alana, we loved it. Kristen led the way on getting in a small group. Now we're all serving together, we're doing the you know, the the church outreach. And I'm telling you, there is a massive amount of edification in that, and it was something that I experienced a lot growing up being in that community. And I will just tell you, if you're willing to kind of put yourself out there, I would say within the last few months, it's been probably the most worthwhile thing that we have done, which is really headfirst getting involved there. Wow. And there, and I believe that's only the start there. But it's it's and man, search it out. I mean, the good and the bad is there's so many churches to choose from, but go find that match. Maybe it's 45 minutes away, but hopefully it's a little bit closer to remove the friction of doing it. Because it is as long as you stay in the church, and then you and leveling up and tithing, we can talk about that another time. We're big fans of that, if nothing else, just to I I do believe for as much church herd that's out there that the local church is the hope of the world, that that's who Jesus has entrusted this world to is through the local church. So for me, it's for us, it's been it's been massive, and I think for our kids, it's just set a template for what's normal for them for the rest of their lives, and that's gonna be the that's gonna be what they follow.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

That's it. We we are gonna be committed to something. I think consistent church attendance is proving we're we're making this a priority, even though it's always not convenient. Yeah, it's not always comfortable. Yeah, we have to navigate kids' sports. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I don't like the second song. It was raining outside, excuses. I mean, the whole thing, we've we've made it um, we've made it so easy to dismiss. Yeah. And it's funny, just traveling around the world a little bit, like being in the underground church in China or Iran, the at like almost coming back to like, oh yeah, this is it.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Like we were in a a hundred-degree trailer hidden, so the police couldn't find us, and they're crying out to God, so ecstatic to be able to do it together. Right. And it's like it's hard that their rhythm there is hard because they could go to prison for it, but they do it. Yeah. So I I don't want to let's not forsake, man, the gathering of the saints. Yeah. You know what I mean? We're talking about like the the healthy spiritual flow and rhythms. Yeah. You've got your personal time with God, which we have to have. And then you've got this collective group where there's community built and there's a synergy that comes to go reach your community. And I'm telling you, when we find a real like rhythm and flow like that, it's amazing the fruit that individually and collectively comes from.

SPEAKER_03 41:52

Little hot take here just at the end. Online church is not enough. I'll just I'll just drop that hot take there. We I'm gonna we're not even discussing. I'll just say that that's if that's all you can do, okay, but it's not enough. Go get in the local church with maybe it in there, maybe you're not getting, you know, the big the big name preachers. Maybe your your communicators are a little bit less in person, but that's all right. Let's leave it at that. We know we we cover a lot of ground here that we could have gone probably a lot more because it's just a lot. This is the you know, this is the thing that's kind of the center point for all of us. I but I do I do want us to break it down like we always do, because we we know we want everybody to be brave and live big lives. So it always starts with a small step. So for somebody listening, and let's isolate it specifically to daily spiritual rhythms. What what's the small step that someone can do this week?

SPEAKER_00 42:45

I would challenge everybody to decide what time in the morning you need to wake up so that you can get, I'm gonna say, 20 minutes in the word. And as a starting point, let's just let's just say you're kicking this thing off. I would implement the 555, read for five minutes, write for five minutes, pray for five minutes. Give yourself 15 minutes, but decide like today, tomorrow morning, I'm waking up at 5.30 and man from 535 to 55, I'm gonna just spend this time. Yeah, and you just watch I'm telling you, do it for one week. And if you're already like in a flow and it's great, man, what's it look like to give yourself a little extra time and get into chunks of the word? But but I would just say like get get it right in the morning, like let that be selfish, and I think you'll love the fruit that's possible because you will pour out all day if you give yourself that space. Do it for a week and watch it pile up.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

James Clear talks about this in Atomic Habits. He said, if you want to go to the gym, drive to the gym, even if you don't go in, just drive to the gym on Monday, and then Tuesday drive to the gym and go in and get on the exercise back for two bike for two minutes. But build up those habits, do the things that the person you want to be is doing will do. So I love that, just beginning with that. And I'll build on that. I want I don't I want it to be in tandem with that, is find someone to do that with. Yep. And then once you're done at the end of it, literally just text each other a check mark. I've done that with a bunch of guys who want to get in the word. I'm like, all right, here's what I'm gonna do. When I finish, I'm gonna send you a check mark. When you're finished reading the Bible, send me a check mark. So do it together, 555, and then have somebody to do it with. Now, what you're gonna find is it may require you to go to church to meet somebody to find somebody to do it with. So, but begin that somebody I believe maybe it can be in your household, but I'd encourage you for it to be outside of your household. Because what you're gonna do, you're gonna give that person the confidence to do it as well, giving them permission and confidence to do something that's important.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

And now we're actually making disciples. And now from there, we can actually go reach the world, which is why we're doing this number.

SPEAKER_03 44:52

That's right. Yeah, that's right. So that's the encouragement again of all the episodes. I gotta think this is please, please take this small step. I think this is the most important one. You will see the most fruit from that. And the world needs you. The world, this is Jesus has entrusted us for some reason with it, and we have to be filled up so that we can then give that we can crescendo our faith can crescendo and love. This is the cornerstone. Treat it like that. Okay, real quick, triple S forest. Subscribe, share, star, give us five stars wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you so much for joining us this week on Brave and Big. Brave and Big is produced by Stonest Podcast and the brilliant Miles All Britain. We will see you next week.