Brave & Big

Grit and Grace: Your Best Effort + Supernatural Power

• Joey Odom • Season 1 • Episode 7

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0:00 | 37:58

You don't have grit or lack it. You do grit. Joey Odom and Chris Hart open this episode by flipping the whole question: grit isn't a trait you're born with, it's a muscle you choose to use, and it's available to every single one of us.

They start with the unsexy truth. We romanticize grit as the moment you win a fight, but it actually shows up in the boring, tedious, non-romantic places: the apology you owe, the lawn you mow when you'd rather watch the game, the marriage you stay in when you can't yet see the full picture. Joey reads a 800-page Hamilton biography he hated and walks away with a new picture of his own marriage. Chris gets choked out by a UFC fighter and learns what it means to get comfortable being uncomfortable.

Then the turn that makes the episode. Grit on its own becomes all about self. So they land on grit and grace: give it your absolute best, then admit where your best runs out and let God's power fill the gap. Most of us camp on one side or the other. The breakthrough is the rhythm between them.

In this episode:

— Why "grit is as grit does" reframes the entire question of whether you have it
 — Angela Duckworth's formula, and why effort counts twice
 — The humility of grit: why starting at the bottom takes more toughness than winning
 — What a UFC fighter's "just enough air" teaches about not quitting at 60 percent
 — How Joey's dad modeled the humility of grit for his family
 — Why your motivation will fade, so you have to keep your "why" close
 — Fresh grace every morning: how rest and mercy reset your capacity
 — Weakness as a portal to God's power, not a thing to hide

This week's small step: Identify one area where you're giving your best and it still doesn't feel like enough. Your kids, your job, a personal discipline. Name it honestly as a weakness, then ask God for grace on it. You're activating grace in addition to your grit, not instead of it.

Be Brave. Live Big.

—

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FOLLOW THE HOSTS

Joey Odom — @joeyodom.life; www.joeyodom.life

Chris Hart — @thechrishart · @thebravecoaches; www.bravecoaches.com

REFERENCED IN THIS EPISODE
 Angela Duckworth, Grit. Carol Dweck's work on fixed vs. growth mindset. Ron Chernow, Alexander Hamilton. 2 Corinthians 12:9 (The Passion Translation).

Produced by Sonus Podcasts · sonuspodcasts.com



SPEAKER_01

Welcome to Brave and Big, where we talk about living a Brave and Big Life. I'm Joey Odom, husband to Kristen, dad to Harrison and Gianna, speaker, former tech co-founder, and author.

SPEAKER_03

I'm Chris Hart, husband to Molly, dad to Blakely, Cooper, Landry, and my son Brave. I'm the CEO and founder of the Brave Group and Brave Performance Agency. Joey and I have been having these talks for 25 years, and we're better for it. We believe the same will be true for you. Enjoy this episode. Be brave and live big. Yay! Let's go. Brave and big. Okay, here's the question for the day as we kick off this episode, which is going to be great. You are getting in a street fight and you get to pick three friends. Oh. Who are you taking?

SPEAKER_01

Heart attack, heart attack, heart attack. Three. I get three heart attacks. I just grabbed three. And you know what? If I can't get both of you, I probably then snag Molly and then maybe Cooper.

SPEAKER_03

You're just grabbing hearts.

SPEAKER_01

I'm just grabbing hearts. If I can grab hearts, I'm gonna grab. No, I really like this question though. I am I am grabbing you. There's no question about that that I am that I am grabbing you. I'm probably grabbing Luke Collins too. Luke. High school wrestler. Yes.

SPEAKER_03

College soccer player.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

Like a pit bull. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. Grabbing Luke. And then I'm kind of running through the Rolodex here of some others who would be my third person to choose.

SPEAKER_03

You got like a real big guy? That's always handy, just to occupy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, just a big, yeah, just a roll through the first three or something. Absolutely. Yeah, maybe big guy to be named later.

SPEAKER_03

Who are your big guy friend that I'm now looking for?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Yeah, I'm on the lookout for him. No, hey, you know what? Maybe in this room, Andrew East. Maybe. I mean, we're sitting in Andrew East's studio, former NFL. Football mindset. Yes.

SPEAKER_03

Large body.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. But like calm, polite, but I know that he could just rip into somebody. It may be Andrew there. Wow. All right. So now, and let me just I want the same question for you, and don't feel like you have to name me. It's okay.

SPEAKER_03

Gosh, as good looking and flowy as your hair is, I'm taking you. Come on, son. But if I couldn't take Joey out, I do have a big guy, Big O at our church. Actually, our worship leader, but also 380 of Samoa. Wow. Yeah. That looks like real life Maui just run right through it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, if you can, if you know a Samoan, that would be the go-to for so let me say big O, big O, because he's got family everywhere.

SPEAKER_03

So we're set. I would, I would, if I could only take one of him, it'd be him. My friend Tom George was a master chief for Delta Force. Okay. Useful. He'll handle himself well. And then I'd I'd love just a good wild card. Yes. You know? My buddy Turpin, also an army guy, but like also just a friend that would never quit.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, that's what you want.

SPEAKER_03

I think I'd probably just go there.

SPEAKER_01

Do you remember we were in your friend BJ? We were talking with his dad. He used to be a pitfighter for the mob. For the mob. And do you remember what I asked him? Do you remember this conversation? I this is the first time I met him. I said, okay, so let me tell you, like, if you got in a fight right now, what would you do? Do you remember his answer? He goes, You know what I'd do? He goes, I'd eat their throat.

SPEAKER_03

That's what I thought he said.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, you talk about a crazy dude. I'm getting BJ's dad because he, I don't care how old he is now, he was so crazy. He goes, because they just see that you're crazy, that you were willing to go eat somebody's throat.

SPEAKER_03

Eight guys just run away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

The throat eater.

SPEAKER_03

I'm not fighting the throat eater. Are you kidding me? So crazy. He traded an emerald one time for a timber wolf. I don't even know what that means. He was a jeweler and traded a guy, a beautiful emerald for a timber wolf that was in his backyard that we were not allowed to go play with because it will eat you.

SPEAKER_01

Because that's why. Oh my gosh. I hope that that can somehow become a meme. Just your face saying he traded an emerald for emerald for a timber wolf before. No one had any idea what you were talking about. This is like The Legend of Zelda.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, you had some emeralds on hand? That makes sense. In your pouch, like your leather pouch that you carry.

SPEAKER_01

How much wampum is an emerald?

SPEAKER_03

Who had a timber wolf? There's so many great dealer. It leads to where we go today. Kind of leads to. You'll get it. Loosely. We're living these brave, big lives, and I think to do that, we have to be people of grit. Grit. Golly. It's gonna be great. So I guess the problem today to unpack is one, why do some people not have grit? So then I would say though, like, what's it required to stimulate or create grit? Is it just like some people are just tough? Is it a result of environments they were raised in or not? Are people soft because they had an okay life? I know some guys that were raised in Middle America that are tough guys. Yeah. You know what I mean? Whatever it might be. So I do want to unpack that. And I I think the to lay the real foundation, I do believe if we're gonna like live these kind of lives, if we're gonna honor God, if we're gonna, if we're gonna do things that like shake up industries and build the kingdom and all that kind of stuff, there does have to be a toughness to us to stay the course. Yeah. So so grit keeps us from quitting. But Joey, speak to it a little bit. Like what why do some people have it? Why do some people not? Do you have it? When have you had it?

SPEAKER_01

When have you not? Let's dive into grit. Well, I would first, I would actually, I think there's even some fallacy in the question, do you have it or you do you not? I think is it do you exercise it or not? Do you operate it? And it's not a have or not have. So this this is a does everybody have grit? Is that what you're saying? Uh I believe everybody has the potential for grit. I think that I think it I think that grit is as grit does. So you know what I mean? So you so I don't believe that it's this this is this whole idea of a fixed versus um whatever open mindset or whatever that Carol Dweck book is. Like, like if you have a fixed mindset that says, I just don't have grit, then you'll never have grit. And so I believe that this is a skill you can develop. And so, and by the way, the reason I chose Luke Collins, Luke is 5'9, Luke was a wrestler, he's tough. But the reason I chose Luke was not because he's strong. The reason I chose Luke is not because he was a wrestler. The reason I chose Luke is I know he would never, ever, ever quit until everybody's dead. You know what I mean? Like that's why I chose Luke because he's just not gonna stop. He is relentless, he is ruthless.

SPEAKER_03

And because of that, has built a great company, has a great family, and I think that's the that's the deal. Like, we've said a lot of like fun bro stuff, yeah. But some of the coolest um places that we've seen grit is a single mom making it work. Come on. It's it's the grit to be like, yeah, this we we've been in other countries and they're gritty Christians for their faith. Yeah. So I like how you reframed it a little bit. It's like you can have it. Yeah, it's available for all of us. Will you choose to exercise it or use some excuse as to why you don't need to be tough and actually play it out and get the results you're looking for?

SPEAKER_01

Well, think about the single mom. I who knows if she knew she had grit until she was placed in the circumstance where her back was against the wall and said, I have to because I my kids need me. I have to do it. And so we get placed in a spot we you again, like, did she naturally have it or not? I don't know. This actually goes to Angela Duckworth, wrote a book called Grit a few years ago, and she has the grit formula. She says, talent times talent times skill equals times effort, excuse me, talent times effort equals skill, skill times effort equals achievement. So are you naturally gifted with talent? Great. To whatever degree you are, then you get a multiply by effort, and then you get and then you get skill. And the cool thing is skill times effort equals achievement, so effort counts twice. Yes. So back of the idea that skill grid is as grid does, it's all about effort. What are you giving to it? That's it.

SPEAKER_03

And I think what's fascinating is a lot of times if we overemphasize talent, we get unmet expectations. So we think about that a little bit, like this makes so much sense in sports. Yeah. Right? Like you've got this wildly talented basketball player, the kid can naturally dribble, he's got hops, you know, whatever. But but we'll oftentimes get beat by the kid that's been putting in the work. That's right. Right? Like fundamentally just won't quit. Like we've seen so many talented people get hit in the mouth and stop.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Because there's not an actual toughness to it. And I love that formula because a lot of times you've got somebody talented that will put in the effort and develop a skill, and then there's a lot of skilled people that then don't do the secondary part of effort. That's right. Right? Like it requires some grit to say, I'm already good. Like you're already good at sales. Yeah. What's the next book you're reading to get a little bit better? Yeah. And you're a good dad. Yeah. There's a skill set to that. You've done it for 18 years, but what's the additional effort to become better at it? Jordan was a cool example of that. Yeah. Arguably the most talented player in the NBA. And every time he would get to the playoffs, he'd meet like the Pistons. Yeah. The bad boys would just literally out effort him and overtake and dominate his skill. So Jordan, as great as he was, as prolific a scorer and athlete as he was, had to go into the offseason and put on 20 pounds of muscle. Yeah. Which was his skill plus effort to get to achievement. Yeah, that's right. Well, six championships followed that added effort to the skill that was already there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. When you think about moments of your life where you've had to just get gritty, what would when do you think do you think about it could be growing up, it could be in your married life. Like when when what comes to mind for you of here's when I got gritty?

SPEAKER_03

We moved a number of times when I was a kid. We moved from Texas to Florida. We moved a couple times in Florida. We moved back to Texas. And and all of I I almost like wish that we did that more now with my kids because I realized what it created. And again, gritiness presents itself in so many different ways, but that like every move I'd come into a new middle school or a new high school, um, try out for a new football team, you know, whatever it was. And there were those moments I'd have to decide like, I'm gonna come in, present myself as confident, potentially be embarrassed by trying to make a new friend, try out for something, like all of those, like it made me better socially. It made me work harder so that there wasn't a letdown for myself. You know what I mean? So I think early that probably was more foundational. There's probably a lot of examples of that just in marriage. Like you gotta be gritty to keep this thing going. Like, like tough enough to say you're sorry, tough enough to have a hard conversation. Um, and then in business, you know, starting a couple different businesses and things like that, there were kind of those tough moments. But I love to think the the there were some foundational things. Yeah, and maybe that's the reality, is we can let things like your your dad wasn't there or he was, you moved or you didn't. I think that's the beauty of life, I guess, is if we'll choose to say that helped develop something that benefited me later, that's the juice.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Right. And and so was moving bad? No, I'd learned from it and got better from it and have friends around the country. Right. That's the positive take on it, but that requires a little grit to actually benefit from it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I and I like the I like the definite the best definition that I've have read on grid is grit is the motivation to keep going even when facing obstacles, setbacks, or failures. So it's the it's the keep going. You know what I mean? It's it's not it's not like the it's not like the one burst of strength you get. No, no, it's the sustained motivation to keep going.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, grit um enables the long game.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And you know, guys that are just wildly successful in building something, it's because they did it for a long time. Yeah, that's right. Grit keeps you from quitting. Yes. Let's talk about quitting a little bit, right? I'm I'm gonna think about this for you, but like when are the moments that you did quit? When are the moments that you could have and didn't? Because I do believe a lot of times we can look at life and and say, okay, that when I did quit, this is what it cost me. When I didn't quit, this is what I gained from it. But I believe if if like we'll lean into this idea of being a gritty person, yeah, it will be the preventative measure to quitting.

SPEAKER_01

I read Stay With Me Here a few years ago. We we our family got swept up in the Hamilton craze. We we listened to the Hamilton soundtrack like a thousand times. We saw it on gritty, saw it on Broadway, saw it on you know in Atlanta. Like we we loved, loved, loved, went to visit Monticello. We visited the Weehawk and dueling grounds where they did in New Jersey, like where it happened. Oh, yeah, yeah. So we did, and so at the time I was like, oh, so Lynn Manuel Miranda, he wrote the play, he's a brilliant wordsmith, and he was inspired by the book Hamilton Alexander Hamilton by Ron Sharnell. And so I said, I'm gonna go read that. Must be an awesome book, Ron Hamilton by Ron Sharonell. It is a thick daddy. Okay, and he uses big words, and so I found myself reading that book, and I thought 80 pages in. This book sucks. This is the most boring book. This is so tedious. Fine, I'll keep reading it. Got to page 200. Bro, more tedium, more detail. It was just it was so boring. It was just in such excruciating detail. And I was like, I just want to stop reading this book. Kept going, kept going. Finally finished as I get to the last page of the book. I'm sitting there, tears down my face, with a full picture of the appreciation of the life of Alexander Hamilton. Wow. Of, oh, I see how all that, I see how all that boredom and tedium, I see how that worked out. It was it was in that time, it was a really difficult time of Kristen my marriage. And I thought about how tedious my marriage was. And I thought how routine and how boring my marriage was, and how I didn't see the point to this marriage. And when I finished that book, I realized I don't have the full picture of this story yet. And maybe, just maybe, when I'm 80 years old and I got grandkids on my lap, or I got great grandkids on my lap, maybe I'll understand it then that I didn't have the full picture. Scott Hamilton is an Olympic figure skater, and he has had a brain, he's had he had a brain tumor, and he he had this great line. I interviewed him on the RO podcast, and he says, We walk through life making conclusions without all the information. And so here's when that grit is applied to my marriage. I think we very often romanticize grit, that we use grit in the context of a fight. But what about, and you said it earlier, what about the moments when I need to go apologize to Kristen? That's grit. What about those moments where I mess up with my kids and I have to sit Harrison down to say, hey, buddy, I really missed it? What about those times when I need to set myself aside and mow the lawn when I want to watch the Braves game? All those things, to me, that's when grit shows up, is in the unsexy, non-romanticized moments where you say, No, I'm in this for the long haul, no matter the no matter how tedious, no matter how boring, that to me is when grit shows up.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and what I hear you saying is we have to keep our why in proximity.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And because like the the motivational meme is gonna fade. Yeah, that's right. You and I are talking right now. I'm like, oh, I'm not quitting anything.

SPEAKER_01

The motivational meme is gonna fade. That's good.

SPEAKER_03

But tomorrow, yeah, we're not having this conversation, and I need to go do what I'm responsible to do, and there's a grit I need to wake up when I said I was gonna wake up. Yeah, I need to have the hard conversation within it with somebody that works for me to tell them I was wrong. I mean, you know, all those things that that require it. I will I will um go to a quick fight example. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Your yours was yours was deep. That is also grit. Like the great job on Hamilton. I'm gonna take it back to that was just me flexing that I finished a book.

SPEAKER_03

And old Meathead Heart's gonna take it back to we'll talk about it. Oh, yeah. Uh I I did get invited by a UFC fighter to come work out with him and thought that's all it was. I pictured us doing like push-ups together. Right. And I'm like, well, we'll do that. That'll be fun. Uh it was not, they were grappling, and I I don't know how to grapple. Um, so I tackled a couple guys, did a couple things, and just it was ridiculous and the whole thing. Was that a good grapple? Was that called grapple? At the end of it, he said, Hey Hart, jump in here with me and we'll just do a little session. And just out of pride, I'm thinking, man, the last thing I want to do is get in there with the actual guy that's in the UFC. But I jump in there with him, he runs at me. I don't know what else to do. So I just slid my arm kind of under his deal, and I just squeeze as hard as I could. And I thought, man, someday on a podcast, I'll be able to tell people I choked out a UFC guy. Right. Um, and thought that for about 10 seconds. I really did. I've squeezed as hard as I could. I'm I'm shocked, I'm shocked he's not on the ground and that they don't just ask me to fight, you know, the whole thing. About 10 seconds later, I've squeezed as hard as I can. I don't know what else to do, so I just lightly let up. And in that instant, he went from in front of me to over me to behind me, slam me on the ground, and I couldn't breathe. Wow. In like half a second. Oh my gosh. And I kind of like come to and everybody's laughing, and I'm like, hey, hey, what happened? You know what I mean? And he was hard, not a bad idea. You had me in a decent hold. Yep. You're strong enough. Uh and he said this. He said, it was uncomfortable, which is interesting. He said, but I was able to slip my chin down a little bit, and I had enough air where I could have stayed there as long as I needed to. Wow. And he goes, and then as soon as you let up, I could capitalize and it's easy from there. And I'm like, so I say that because his grit, like I'm I'm not great at it, obviously, but he had already decided that he was okay being uncomfortable as long as was needed. Well, because he knew what to do as soon as he had an opportunity. And I I think that's that's the grit. That's what I have to have in my marriage.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_03

That's a little uncomfortable right now. That's what we have to have in business. Man, I don't, I'm not exactly sure what the economy is about to do. There's it, but I will stay the course and and I can get comfortable in discomfort, and I won't quit prematurely because there will be a moment to make the most of and find that opportunity. Man.

SPEAKER_01

What do you think? I it makes me think about. I love the the line that really jumps out there is I had just enough oxygen. I had enough oxygen. There's a there's a documentary, I think it's called 12 Peaks or Seven Peaks or something like that. It's about this guy who climbed this the highest peaks in the world within like a month or something. It was crazy. And this dude is such a tough guy. Um, and he had in a good way, not like a macho way, like this guy's just he's just tough. And he has this great line in there, and he uses the profanity that I'll edit here. But he says, he goes, We many times we think we are 100% F'd when we're about 60% F'd.

SPEAKER_03

Great.

SPEAKER_01

Isn't that great? Yes. No, it's not over. Yeah, no, it's not over. Do you have I I got just enough oxygen here? I can I can do just a little bit more in my marriage here. I can do just I can I can go the extra mile in my fitness today. I can wake up at 5 30 and I don't want to. So I love that. Just do you have just enough oxygen?

SPEAKER_03

The math lines up with what the Navy SEALs will say, which is at 60% capacity, our body tries to force us to pull back out of out of protection. Wow. And the reality, so most people, most of us will never experience 100% capacity or 100% output because our body's already in protection mode. Man, you've been running, you've been running for three minutes. We need to start pulling back a little bit. You're gonna die.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You've been training, you've been running, you've run four miles now. You need to start pulling back a little bit, right? You're you're in the middle of your CrossFit workout and you've done 100 squats and let's start pulling. So we have to like train ourselves to fight that and say, I'm okay to go to 80%. Let's let's play with 90%. Let's you know what I'm saying? Because that's the actually the only way to increase capacity is to be gritty enough when naturally or even other people. Yeah, we start, well, that guy's tired. Maybe I should be. Right. So we start pulling back prematurely and never actually fully experience what we're capable of.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. I will say the uh story of grit to me, and this is the one where I have, I really do believe, like I do, you asked, do I have grit? I do believe I've developed grit over the years where I am, I will not quit. I and it's and it comes from my dad, and it comes from a conversation my parents had with us when we were, I think I was probably like fifth grade. My brother Jacob was seventh grade, somewhere in there. My brother John, five years younger, my sister Jamie's 12 years younger, so she doesn't remember this. But we they sat us down. My dad had a business at the time, and they said, Dad's business is not doing well, and we're gonna provide all of your needs, your basic needs. Needs and anything beyond that, we need you to cover for yourself. And so, you know, if from there I've had every job in the world. So it was Lawn Mowing and uh Little League umpiring. When I saw my friends playing Little League, I was umpiring Little League to make money. Um, you know, valet parker, pizza delivery boy, all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03

You and I valet parked one time together. Crushed it. And when the event was going on after we parked the cars, we ate pizza and watched a movie in someone else's navigator. It was awesome. And I just thought, is there any there's no way we're getting paid for this?

SPEAKER_01

So if you need to develop some grip, get you, get you some valet. It was amazing. So we so I do, and I remember my dad. My dad had my dad was a deacon at the church, he's on the board, like he was highly respected in our church. And he made a decision in the midst of his business going down where most people would legitimately have filed bankruptcy. They would have said, I can't pay my debts, I can't. My dad said, for him, this is for him. He said, I pay my debts, I take care of my family. So in the midst of that, he became a janitor for a time at the church, at the massive church in Tulsa, where he was a deacon and on the board. And he got some grief for it internally. No, I that's not becoming of a deacon. I'm gonna take care of my family. And so he stuck with it. And watching that, okay, okay. If my dad can do, I'm gonna, I got just enough oxygen then. And my dad has my dad's been done great since like he recovered from that season. He's been an amazing provider for for my family, for my mom and my my siblings. But in that moment, I saw, like, okay, that's what grit looks like. No, I'm not gonna die. I'm gonna pay my debts.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and and two, there's a what a what a story of like humility, like the grit to be humble, right? That's grit there's something there to put pride aside. And and then I think what it boils down to is like the grit to do whatever it takes. This is actually what's required in this season. And maybe that's the problem. Maybe that's why some people that maybe that's why sometimes we don't expose grit or or really walk in it because we're not sure how long it's gonna have to last. Yeah, and that's daunting. And and I think, you know, if we're gonna go biblical with it, Jesus said, man, for the for the joy set before him, yeah, that's it. He endured the cross. Yeah. He was gritty with the cross because he did know what's on the other side. Yeah. And and maybe that's our unfair advantage as Christians. There's greatness on the other side of this current trial and requirement for grit. And if we'll live like that, then it's like, man, there is a joy out in front of there's something beyond this season of grit. Your dad's not still a janitor.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

He's not still, right? Like there, that was a necessary moment where that was required, and he was humble enough and powerful enough to do that. And then your family is still together and things are good. And yeah, so it's interesting to think about like seasons of grit. And I think we have to have it in all these little things during the day. And then there's sometimes like, man, it just feels like everything I'm doing is requiring it. And I almost want to like encourage everybody, it's like, man, that's okay. But I think that's where, and maybe we transition here, Joey. There's something to like being the toughest version we can possibly be, and then we apply God's grace to that. Yeah. And it's just so simply this idea of grit and grace. Yes. And and I'll I'll say this and then speak to it, but it feels like a lot of times people are on one side or the other, or at least are heavier on one side or the other and not really finding the rhythm with it. So it's like, no, I just gotta be the toughest guy in the world. And I love that, but then it's all about like self and my capability. Yeah. That's one extreme. Then the other extreme is, well, God's in control, whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen. I don't need I'm not involved in that. Yeah. And I hope a check shows up in the mail to take care of my family. That would be the extreme of like just hoping for God's intervention. But I really believe, like, for everybody listening, if we can walk in this rhythm of grit, your best effort, yeah. What are you capable of? What can you control? What's your best for God? And God, I completely trust you. I am submitted to you. I want to walk in your kind of authority. I need your grace on this, I need your supernatural ability. Man, when those two things really start to flow together, I think that's where we see miracles. I think that's where we see breakthrough, and I think that's where we see lives changed.

SPEAKER_01

It goes something you said a few minutes ago. I don't want to scan over, which was which is uh this is a major epiphany for me. You said the humility of grit. That's incredible, bro. Like that's that that is a that's a different level of grit that I had never, ever, ever in my life considered the humility of grit. That is casting yourself aside for the sake of something larger, something that you have, something that you have committed yourself to. This goes back to no excuses, also. No, you committed to it, so there's a humility in it that you're gonna stick to it. And so I love that, which is goes with that.

SPEAKER_03

Well, so many people, all of us, we don't want to be seen starting at the bottom.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But that's also the only way to start something.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_03

It's like, I want to be an entrepreneur, good. Be great at telling your friends that you're starting at zero and you're about to build something great. That's the humility of grit.

SPEAKER_01

Which is so funny, too, because we this is back to how we romanticize things. No one wants to be seen as being as starting at the bottom, but everybody wants their success story to start with them at the bottom. So you know what I mean? Like you want to. It's cool to be a starter, but it's not cool to not have stuff. Yeah, exactly. Right, yeah. So, but but to your point, and this is a line that you said, and this was bro, this is probably 15 plus years ago, and you just said, hey, just give it hell today because you got a fresh batch of grace in the morning. Bro, his mercies are new every morning. You're gonna get it, you're gonna get it new. And man, you are tired and you're exhausted. Great news, buddy. You got manna waiting for you on the ground tomorrow morning. You got a fresh batch of grace every single morning. I think that's one of the big keys of rest, is the way God has designed us. I was thinking, I was thinking a few months ago. I was like, I was I had so much to do, and I was like, why do I have to rest? I wish I'd what the sleep is so dumb. Like, I don't want to sleep. The one superpower. Yeah. Well, if you could have any superpower, never sleep.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Right. If we could operate it 100% 24 hours a day, yeah, but the way that God designed it is rest, and then he provides our ability to go at 100 the next day. Yeah. And there's these real cool, calculated increments of that that you're speaking to.

SPEAKER_01

Just a reminder, nope, you can't do it. Nope, you're gonna shut down. You, I'm gonna force you into rest. And when you wake up, I got a big present for you, and it's a fresh batch of grace. It's great.

SPEAKER_03

So that's what we wake up to every day.

SPEAKER_01

Every day. Yes. Every day. So I I I do love that of yeah, you're gonna you're gonna grit your teeth and you're gonna do everything you can, and you're gonna do the unsexy, unromantic things, and you're gonna activate it with God's grace. And you're just gonna leave those results. Which is like we talked about no excuses. Again, we said we were gonna apply no excuses to activities and let the outcomes be an overflow. We can we can't we can't control those outcomes. We can't apply no excuses necessarily to outcomes, but we can to activities. Let me read you 2 Corinthians 12 9.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, okay. No, I'm gonna do it from memory. Okay, uh, should be good. Man, shout out Joe White. He used to do that. He would get up to speak at camp, and he would literally just say, I'm gonna speak to you from Ephesians, and then he would just quote it. Wow. And it was like listening to Paul say it. And I'm like, Okay. Okay, too. I'm gonna do that. I still gotta memorize Ephesians, but this is in the Passion Translation, so it's kind of cheating, but it makes it sound so good. He answered me, My grace is always more than enough for you. My power finds its full expression through your weakness. So I will celebrate my weaknesses, for when I'm weak, I sense more deeply the mighty power of Christ living in me. I'm not defeated by my weakness, but delighted. When I feel my weakness and endure mistreatment, when I'm surrounded with troubles on every side and I face persecution because of my love for Christ, I am made yet stronger. For my weakness becomes a portal to God's power. And that's that that's the deal right there.

SPEAKER_01

My weakness becomes a portal. For someone like you who is physically strong, mentally strong, emotionally strong, who who exhibits strength, what does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_03

That's a great question. I I don't to your point, like this is I need to dial this in more. I I want to be strong constantly. Yeah. I'm like proud of it, maybe too much. Um but I do, I do, I have become more aware, I guess as I've just matured with God, of some of my limitations. And that's that's really where I I see this. Like I'll see myself get frustrated with one of my kids or something. That's not strong. Yeah. There's nothing I hate it. I want to be great for them all the time, but I'm I'm learning to it's like, okay, man, let's admit that. God, I was not great. I was impatient with my daughter today. So God, let me communicate clearly that is a weakness. And what I really need is this portal of your power so that I can be patient, I can communicate with wisdom, and actually give my kid what they need. Yeah. So I'm I'm trying to, and then, and then once you, once I've gone there, Joey, it's like, oh gosh, here's 30 other examples. You know what I mean? Like, man, could have been better with the staff guy today. Man, could, you know, so a lot for me, a lot of times it's interactions with people. Uh, then there are times just like in the disciplines I want to have in my life, it's like, man, that for whatever reason, God, I'm I'm having a hard time not eating the stuff that I know I shouldn't be eating right now. Man, let me just admit that to you. I like to admit it to a couple buddies, but now all of a sudden God's light can shine on it. Because what the devil loves to do is attack us in the in the dark. Yeah. Man, if we can if we can keep something hidden, and that's what's so funny, God knows already. Let's just tell him. You know what I'm saying? Um, so that that's kind of it for me. But but it's almost like once we start down that road and almost open the door to being honest and vulnerable about it. There are it's almost like saying, I don't make excuses, and then this guy's making 30 excuses. Yeah. I don't want to be weak, but golly, I am in all these places. And so I've I've really just tried to like be up front. And honestly, my time in the morning with God is such a great time to kind of reflect on that. Here's what was great yesterday. Here's where I wasn't my best. God, let me present that to you. And let's just see if we can't get the portal of your power on it. Because I do want to be better at it, but I'm admitting I'm not my best there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

How about you?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I th I I hear that and it's I'm so relieved by it. Like, oh God, isn't that great? Oh, I can't, I can, I can not only accept that I'm weak, but I can rejoice in it. Like, oh, thank you that you get to fill those gaps for those gaps for me. I I I like that. I like I like seeing that. I do think that I it again, it's inextricable from having to give it your best effort also, and then realizing that that's never gonna quite be enough. And then not going to desperation, but just going to rejoicing, like, oh man, that's great. I get I'm I'm I'm covered, I'm good.

SPEAKER_03

And I don't read that verse like let's just walk around and be weak.

SPEAKER_01

That's right.

SPEAKER_03

I don't either at all. I I really do read it like, God, I'm gonna give you my best because you deserve that. Yeah. And then there is maybe a limit to that. There, there's a there is an end to my best effort, my strength, and man, I I I need you. And and I always look at it through the lens of he is a good father. Yeah. Blakely was running a race and excited about it and wanted some help with it and trying to figure some stuff out and all this kind of stuff. And I'm I I just remember her coming in and asking for help with that. And she was giving her best effort. She's like, I I think I'm training right, am I? Yeah. And I I couldn't, I was so excited to find ways to help her. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I just think about God in that lens. He's looking for us, he's looking, he's like, Joey, I'm proud of you for your best effort, man. Yeah. And I'm also very aware I created you, I know where some of the weaknesses are. Yeah, yeah. But as a good father, he's excited to see your effort, get involved, and then elevate the whole thing. Yeah, I totally agree. I think we land it. Come on. So, to live this big and brave life, Joey, what's what's a finale? What's a practical small step to being gritty right now?

SPEAKER_01

It's interesting because this one is such a big topic. It's almost like it's almost like what's that small step towards grit? It's a really, really good question. Um I don't know that I gave this one a lot of forethought. Maybe I did, but in in the light of the way we've described it, I I would say for me it kind of goes back to what we talked about in No Excuses. And it goes specifically to what are the commitments that I have made. And it should be the lens through which we make future commitments, but what are my current commitments? What's the line that Pastor Bill says? He says that commitments is walking in a room with no exits or something like that. And and I love that. He said that when we were in college, I remember hearing that in an ORU chapel. So it's no, I'm in. I am in, and sexy or unsexy, I'm gonna look at my part of that. I cannot control how my spouse responds, I cannot control what my kids do. I can control myself and my commitment. So it's maybe it's a a step back to say, what are the three most important commitments I have made? And now I'm gonna go ahead and remove any vestige of excuse and just say, I'm gonna do this for the next 60 years.

SPEAKER_03

We want you today to make a 60-year commitment. That's that's the small step. Yeah, that's the small step. What's yours? I'm with you. I think what would be over the top and bear a lot of fruit would be let's identify an area where you feel like you are giving your best and you don't feel like it's quite enough right now. Oh, and we recognize we need God's grace on it. Love that. It'd be cool if it's with your kids. It's great if it's at your job, it's okay if it's a personal discipline. Yeah. But God, I feel like I'm giving my best effort. It doesn't seem to be quite enough, which means it's a weakness, and I'd love a portal of your power on it and all over it. But let's identify one area and activate God's grace in addition to our grip.

SPEAKER_01

And if we do that again, over time, we're talking about the compact, we say, we say uh, you know, be brave, live big. What we're talking about is kind of why I referenced the Hamilton thing, so that when you're 80, when these little things you've done, just that habit of celebrating your weakness and letting God's grace step in, that that's what a big life looks like. You know what I mean? And that's here's the cool thing in talking about all this is the recognition that that is available for every single one of us. You don't have or not have grit, you do grit. And over time, the end result is a brave and big life. Okay, real quick, triple S for us. Subscribe, share, star, give us five stars wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you so much for joining us this week on Brave and Big. Brave and Big is produced by Stonest Podcast and the brilliant Miles All Britton. We will see you next week.