Vision: You Can’t Build a Life You Can’t See

Plenty of people have sight and no vision. Joey Odom and Chris Hart spend this episode on the difference, and on the fact that vision isn't reserved for the naturally visionary. It's something you can go get.

They start with blind Bartimaeus on the roadside in Mark 10. When he starts calling out for Jesus, the crowd tells him to be quiet, and he gets louder. Chris makes the case that this is where vision actually begins: refusing to let other people's voices (or your own pride, or your fear of looking foolish) talk you out of asking for something big. Bartimaeus threw off the beggar's garment before he was healed, because he knew he wasn't going back.

Then it turns practical. David didn't see himself as a shepherd boy with a slingshot, he saw himself as someone who had already killed a lion and a bear, and Goliath was simply the next thing standing between him and the vision. So you take inventory of what you've already overcome. And once vision shows up, you protect it, because where there's no vision, people cast off restraint. Chris lays out four guardrails every person needs, and the guys close on writing the vision down so plainly that other people can read it and run.

In this episode:
— Vision as imagination plus wisdom, and why both halves matter
 — Bartimaeus and the courage to get louder when people tell you to be quiet
 — Why pride and the fear of embarrassment quietly kill vision, especially once you've had some success
 — How Chris got a chunk of his own vision on day four of a fast, and what happened two weeks later
 — Why vision turns opposition into opportunity
 — The lions and the bears: taking inventory of what God has already brought you through
 — You're a giant killer, and the giants worth naming (generational patterns, addiction, a lid at work, a lie your kid believes)
 — Four guardrails to protect the vision: the opposite sex, what you consume, your devices, and money
 — Vision, strategy, tactics: where you're going, how you'll get there, and what you do today

This week's small step: For the next seven days, take 30 minutes each morning with the distractions killed. Ask God for vision, personally and professionally, and write down what comes. It may not be the full picture yet, but write down what you get and let it start pulling you.

Be Brave. Live Big.


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FOLLOW THE HOSTS
Joey Odom — @joeyodom.life; www.joeyodom.life
Chris Hart — @thechrishart · @thebravecoaches; www.bravecoaches.com

REFERENCED IN THIS EPISODE
Blind Bartimaeus (Mark 10). David and Goliath (1 Samuel 17). Habakkuk 2:2 (write the vision and make it plain). Proverbs 29:18 (where there is no vision, the people cast off restraint). Helen Keller on sight without vision.

Produced by Sonus Podcasts · sonuspodcasts.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to Brave and Big, where we talk about living a Brave and Big Life. I'm Joey Odom, husband to Kristen, dad to Harrison Indiana, speaker, former tech co-founder and author.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

I'm Chris Hart, husband to Molly, dad to Blakely, Cooper, Landry, and my son Brave. I'm the CEO and founder of the Brave Group and Brave Performance Agency. Joey and I have been having these talks for 25 years, and we're better for it. We believe the same will be true for you. Enjoy this episode. Be brave and live big.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Brave and big, we're back. Heart attack.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Look at Hey, you know what I love?

SPEAKER_01 0:41

You know what I love about our podcast? You know something I love about this stuff? That we I like you know, I love that we don't we don't really waste time at the beginning. Like this whole idea of banter, of of talking weather and sky, I just like that we go in on it. So in in in that vein, will you go in on it? Like will you will you break us off a piece right now? It is cloudy here.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

It is no heck no, yeah, we're here after it, man. We're gonna talk about vision today. And the reason why is because I just think we have to have it, and it's it's maybe in different seasons of our life easy not to. Uh sometimes we get consumed or or caught up, and there's plenty going on. I mean, golly, I could I could really be set on what's just happening today with kids and wife and friends, and but man, I I I hope today our our goal would be between what's said and then what we're gonna ask you, the listener, to do today is that this is a moment where you kind of lift up your eyes and you're thinking, yes, I I want more vision. Here's some practical steps on how, because I believe if if all of us collectively are looking up and just seeing what's in front of us and getting a more clear picture, there there is vast opportunity in front of us, but we have to have vision for it. So I'm gonna start like this. If you want me to come out swinging, Joey, this is an honor of you, Helen Keller.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Bring us up.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

I don't quote all the time, but I like what she says here. The most pathetic person in the world is someone who has sight but no vision. Swinging on them, you know what I mean? Like sight but no vision. A lot of people walking around, and that's great, but just lack vision. So let's dive in. I'm gonna get real practical. Here's a working definition that I believe is helpful. Vision's the ability to think about or plan the future with imagination and wisdom. What a combo.

unknown 2:46

Right?

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Like I want a vision for my life, I want a vision for my career, vision for the culture of my family. Great. Let's have a healthy combination of imagining, like where there's no gravity, let's just think endlessly, infinitely large. I love that. And let's have a supernatural wisdom connected to it. When I when I throw that out there, Joey, imagination and wisdom, like being the complementary formula for vision. How do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 3:19

It's an interesting combination because I think people would you start thinking like creative on one side of the brain and practical on the other side of the brain. And so it feels like it's tapping into a little bit of both. It's a it's a little bit of the just being. I even think about a guy like who's controversial, but I think about a guy like Elon, for example. Sucker's talking about building data centers on the moon. Like he's he is he is, you know, he is he's diagnosed being a little bit on the spectrum. So he has he's he's pretty literal, but at the same time, he's able to imagine, he's able to say things. I mean, we we take for granted going to the moon at one point, but it took some bravery from a lot of people to say, no, we can go do that. And so being able to create a future, and it really gets dangerous when you can articulate your vision, take that intelligence, you take that wisdom, and then articulate it, and then get other people to see what you can see only in your brain. Man, it's uh it is a it's a very, very powerful combo. And what's cool about it is you may say, No, I'm more on the creative side, no, I'm more on the practical side. I believe this is something that is available to all of us to have, and it's just like anything else, it's something that you can develop. So I'm excited for you to unpack this because I think it is something that you can develop wisdom in yourself, or vision in yourself.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Well, and the reality is if it maybe this is the hook to stay tuned, but exactly what you said is where we're gonna land the plane today, which is your vision that other people can see, be inspired by, and run with. So that's where this will end up. But let's kind of start. I I think the first thought here has to be we have to get loud about obtaining vision. And we're gonna go a little spiritual here today. I want to take you to Mark 10. It's a fascinating story. Jesus is kind of doing his thing and he's he's working it and he's all over the place. He's on the greatest mission that humankind has ever seen, right? It's a it's a mission ultimately to the cross. But it says they came to Jericho, and then as he went out with his disciples and a great multitude, blind Bartimaeus, son of Timaeus, sat by the road begging, and he heard it was Jesus of Nazareth. He began to cry out and say, Jesus, son of David, have mercy on me. And this is my favorite part of the whole thing. Many warned him to be quiet, but he cried out all the more. Another translation says, He got louder. And I think this is the start of actually getting vision. And this is going to be a very like physical, practical getting of vision. And I think it's the same thing for vision for our life. Jesus is is on this unreal mission, and and in the middle of that, somebody obviously looked at as very low level. He's probably begging, you know, all that kind of stuff. He's just he's just there being blind and starts calling out, and the people around him tell him to shut up, but he wouldn't be refused, he would not be silenced. And and I think that's the problem is a whole lot of time when we start talking big picture and we have creative ideas and and and we have those moments. The problem is we allow other people's voices and opinions to start to stifle or silence our vision, or the even the ability to kind of go there. And I and I think this is why a lot of people try to discourage our vision because they don't have it for themselves. And we we can't let that stop us. The best part is he cried out all the more, he got louder. So as we're as we're getting excited about this, and hopefully there's a little motivation that comes from hearing this today. The initial thought is cry out for it. One, know that there's gonna be some haters on it, and let's get louder about it and not be refused in this pursuit of vision. What's your hot take on people trying to stifle vision because they don't have a judging?

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Well, here's one thing I think about imagine blind Bartimaeus. Blind Bartimaeus has heard people talk about this guy named Jesus. So he's he's heard descriptions of him, he's heard he's he's doing some miracles. Then all of a sudden, he didn't ever it had to be in that moment. I'm just imagining in that moment, I can't imagine the thrill in his heart that wait a second, Jesus is here, and so it's like I got one chance to shoot my shot. Like, this is the only time I have. And here's what's really cool about it. Here's here's the thing that actually jumps out to me in hearing this story, and I haven't had this revelation until now is this is that this dude was a beggar, probably. This guy had no pride, and so he was willing. What am I gonna lose by calling out to Jesus? Are people gonna like kick me out on the street or something? I'm already on the street, I'm already begging for stuff. So the people who are probably trying to stifle him are the ones, it's like those people who are just kind of too cool for the moment, or you got a little bit of pride, or maybe you're not willing to be embarrassed yourself. This requires what it required of him was a huge amount of humility. It required him, he felt like he had nothing to lose. And so, of course, I'm gonna shoot my shot where people are maybe too cool for the moment, or they want to put themselves out there and they don't want to be embarrassed. And that's how we again, that's for for all of us. How many times are we holding back our greatness, our essence, our asking big because of that pride that lives in us or the appearance that we want to maintain?

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Well, to that point, you might be listening right now and and have a measure of success already, and so it does feel like you have something to lose, right? It's like, man, I've already done it. I can't be seen crying out for vision now. I'm already supposed to be somebody. I don't want to be seen starting over on a new vision, a new entrepreneurial track. Man, I've done this and now I'm ready to get into politics, but I got to start at the bottom, whatever it might be. So we think we've got something to lose, so we won't be the ones potentially embarrassing ourselves crying out for fresh vision. And that would be an immediate lid and hindrance to what God actually has for us. So it goes on. It says, uh, but he called out even more son of David, have mercy on me. It says, Jesus stood still. Remember, he's on a mission, but he heard his name being called, and that's the same today. Jesus will stop and listen to us. And he demanded the man to be called. Like, man, get Bardamayas up here. This is fascinating because all of a sudden now all the haters immediately change. They call the blind man, hey, be of good cheer, brother. Rise. He's calling you. Now they're all fanboying over the guy that got some attention. And I think that's how quickly the the hate can shift and change because we're talking about fickle people. And we can't let that deter us from the initial call out. You and I have actually talked about this. Sometimes I think we have two or three people in our head that would make a comment. If you made a new post on the gram, it's like, oh yeah, that one guy might say something about it. So maybe I won't post it. And then we're sometimes so weak that we would let one person's opinion that shouldn't get an opinion, shouldn't dictate what we do with our lives, that that our ants might say something or think something or whatever it might be. But what if we just were the people that weren't allowing inappropriate voices to dictate what we do?

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Hey, the this is, and I don't want to minimize how hard this is. This this is really hard. This is this is, I think you have to build up some thick skin. I think about, man, I think about right now being a teenager, think about all of our kids. It's really hard to get loud. It's really hard to call it out. And it by the way, kids, if you're listening, it gets really hard when you're an adult too. And so it's, I mean, heck, even doing this, like even like putting ourselves out on a podcast and talking about issues and and making ourselves vulnerable. Yeah, there's a there's some vulnerability to it, and vulnerability by nature is turning your soft underbelly, giving somebody the opportunity to stab you. But those are the people, to your point, on on the people who started fanboying over him, those are the people we may not want to take those steps for ourselves, but the people we admire are the ones who do go out of limb. The people we admire are the ones who call out for vision. We the people we do admire are the ones who go out there. So, what if we started acting like the people we admire? I think that begins to to instill some courage into in the arena, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:55

That's that's the reality, yes. And this is what happened Jesus says, Hey, come over here, and it says, throwing aside his garment, he rose and came to Jesus. And there, I studied this a little bit. There's some real significance here. That garment is what defined him as a beggar. So just people walking by could see and and recognize that's what that meant because that's how he collected his money. He had that, he would have that garment laid out, ready to receive alms, and it's also what kept him warm at night. So that garment was everything, and this is what's so amazing. As soon as he heard Jesus, as soon as he was called, he threw it because he knew he'd never need it again. Something supernatural took place, and I just want to encourage you. That's what's gonna happen here, man. You're crying out, you're getting louder, you're you're fading the heat from maybe some some small, insignificant haters that are gonna end up wanting to be your friend, anyways. And and all of a sudden there's gonna be that call. And it's like, listen, I'm never going back, I'm never thinking this low again. I'm a person of vision, I'm not afraid of getting louder. Only thing I'm afraid of is not catching the vision, right? So he comes to Jesus and it keeps getting better. He gets in front of Jesus, and Jesus says, What can I do for you? Which is maybe the greatest line in the New Testament. It's a blind guy in front of Jesus, and it would have been, I think it would have been great if he was just like, Man, if I was two inches taller, man, if my hair was a little thicker, you know what I mean? Like, wouldn't it be like just just shock everybody? But Jesus wanted him to say out loud what he was asking for. What are you believing for? Yes, what do you what do you need from me? And he goes, Man, that I might have my sight, that I might have vision. And that's why I really want to make this correlation out of the gate. We're gonna talk about a lot of stuff, but there's something about calling out for it, getting loud about it. And you know, to spoil the story for you, Jesus heals him, and then it says, and he followed him down the road. So he didn't just get what he asked for or get the vision, but he stayed tight because he recognized the source. So, so let's let's go here just a little bit, Joey. Like, there is a practical side of this of calling out for it, asking for it, and then really man, I'm starting to head down that direction, man. Throw off that old stuff that has been what's currently defining you, and let's actually let's actually start down this road and be people of vision. And when I say that, like being a person of vision, like what do you what do you want to kind of expound on there as we kind of slide into this next point?

SPEAKER_01 14:38

The really interesting thing is as I've read that story before, I really do believe that whatever he would have asked for, Jesus would have given it to him. And so when I think about that, this guy's a beggar, let's not forget. So he could have asked for the most shekels he's ever asked for, and Jesus probably would have given it to him, and he would have stayed blind, or he could have asked for a better position or you know, at a at a better city gate, or whatever, whatever it is. But I think Jesus would have answered, given him whatever he asked for, and he was willing to ask big. And so I hope that instills confidence because I think Jesus would have been willing to leave him where he was, I think, because he didn't ask for it. I think that was the purpose of the question, which I love that, and which is challenging. Go ahead and be audacious in our asks. And I think, again, if we believe that God's a good father, I we know he's gonna listen to us, he's gonna ultimately give us what's good for us, but he is asking us, what do you want? And so we can ask for big vision in those moments.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Okay, we're we're just getting warmed up, but if it we want to give you an action item. I'm I'm gonna challenge you this week. Hopefully, you're listening to it and you're thinking, okay, man, tomorrow morning I'm gonna get up a little early and I'm gonna cry out for a vision. And and I always want to encourage you to cry out for it in your personal life and cry out for it in your professional life. Man, what do you want out of that job? What do you want out of your career? What, what's the new thing? What's the next thing? Man, with your family, let's cry out for vision. Man, what are you believing for for your kids? And you just watch, we're we're set on this. You ask God questions, you cry out for vision, and you be ready. You're gonna start writing something down and it's gonna hit you, and there's gonna be a fresh vision revelation about where you're supposed to go.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Chris, when someone's doing that, when you think about that and someone's asking for vision, we immediately start moving in. I know we're gonna talk probably more about this. We but you start moving into then strategy and tactics, but it all it all starts with vision. So when when you get start getting that vision, we're gonna immediately it's easy for fear to start jumping in because we don't know how to do it. So will you walk through a little bit of how do you handle that whenever you call out for the big vision and you start getting the big vision, and then you start getting paralyzed by how that big vision is actually gonna become reality?

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Uh I'll I'll go real personal with this. I was I knew there was a transition coming. I was on staff at our church, the church we still go to, love it. Um, knew there was a transition and started praying about it, thinking about it, and really wasn't sure what it was, other than there was a little stirring about a transition. And and so it was cool because it was I'm kind of crying out for it, like we're telling people to do. Knew that there were some things that had kind of been exciting to me in the future, and I did a fast. You just came off a fast, it was powerful. It it it allowed me to really focus on God and kill the flesh and feed the spirit and the whole thing. And my encouragement here is this on day four, I felt like I had a clear reminder from God about some stuff that He showed me when I first got saved. It's really cool. It was a few specific things like really working with the next generation, coaching pastors, encouraging families. It was neat, doing some things international. And so it was new vision that was a little bit of a reminder of kind of who God told me I was when I first got saved, but it wasn't the full plan and every step and strategy. And that's that's where I wanted to land is let's not be afraid of some steps and some insight, because I I really believe that's how it comes to us a lot of times, because that keeps us in a place of faith. I had to stick the course and kind of take the next step. Two weeks later, I had written five things down that I felt like God spoke to me. Two weeks later, I was at lunch with a friend and he goes, Man, I know this is crazy. I know everything you're currently doing at the church, but there's like five things we really need help with in this organization. I just wonder if you'd be open to it. And dagum it if he didn't list out the five things that God had showed me. Come on. Okay. Are you serious? Yeah, I mean, I'm eating queso. I remember just like, don't say number three. Do you don't say number four? This is getting weird. You know, it was shocking. But it wasn't this full clear vision out of the gate, but I got a chunk of it because of the focused call out, kill distractions, get some steps. And then, you know, through time and through being around the right people, it was fascinating that a lot of those things really started to make sense and the path got a lot more clear. And then over the next five years, a lot of that played out. So again, it this isn't like, man, give me the vision, give me 10 practical steps, fill my bank account. Like there, there's there's steps that are premature in a good way that need to be taken and need to be focused on so we can really start going the direction God's called us to.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

So here's what I know to be true. Once that vision presents itself and we we start acting and talking like people of vision, I really believe we get good at identifying opportunity. And there's a big difference here. A lot of people see opposition. If we're people of vision, that that opposition actually becomes opportunity. And so I want to go there and I'm gonna give you one of the greatest natural examples of this in the world. We're gonna go David and Goliath. David's a shepherd boy. David should not be in a fight, and and David's gonna take on Goliath. Okay, and I think we can clearly see here that David was a person of vision because David didn't see himself or limit himself to his current circumstance. He's a shepherd boy, the youngest of his brothers, who was asked to deliver food to his brothers. Right? He's the Uber Eats of that time. He is literally taking like chips and and and cheese to his brothers. And his dad just wanted a report. So he's literally the only person there that's not a soldier, and he hears Goliath speak. And all of a sudden, it's like, wait a minute. He's he he's talking about my country, he's talking about my God, he's talking about my family, and he's looking around at this paralyzed army, and he starts saying, Listen, somebody's got to kill him, somebody's gotta shut him up. Like David came from the outside and and heard it and was appalled by it, but it's because he was a person of vision, and I really believe it's because he was spending so much solitary time with God, he's used to hearing God's voice. So when he heard Goliath's voice, it was so contrary to his vision and the life that he was seeing and portraying for himself, God speaking to him about doing great things. He hears Goliath, he's like, Oh, we have to kill him. We have to shut his mouth because it doesn't align with the vision that I have for my life. I'll give some more details on that. But what are you thinking initially on David not being limited by his reality?

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Well, it's funny because it did, you know, so much of everything we talk about comes back. So it because it was Rooted in identity. He knew exactly who he was, but really he knew exactly who God was. And again, the the funny thing, Jesus talking about my sheep know my voice. He had also guided sheep who knew his voice, so he knew what it was like to be led. He he we because he led, he knew what it was like to be led. And so then to your point, he knew exactly what voice to listen to. And it did. I love the I love the idea that it was it was so contrary to what you like to what you said. It was so contrary to the vision that he had that he knew it had to be knew it had to be quieted.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

So researchers will say that in this moment the Israelites actually had the tactical advantage of location. The way that they were set up was actually ideal, and they had the advantage over the Philistines. So what that tells us is they're in the right position, they're ready to attack, everything's good, and then Goliath comes out. And it paralyzed an army. So all of a sudden, this army is as powerful as they think they are. Honestly, King Saul should have been the one fighting Goliath. But him being paralyzed, and remember, Saul's a big guy, Saul looks like a king, you know, the whole thing. But he got paralyzed with fear. Now the whole army's paralyzed, and they're just taking it every day as Goliath walks out and says whatever he wants. So it took someone that came from the outside, came from the country, and heard it and was appalled by it to do something. But because David's a person of vision, he starts telling everybody, Well, listen, if you won't kill him, I will. And that gets to the king. So King Saul called and said, Okay, David, come talk to me. What you're acting like you can kill him. And David was so confident in his communication with King Saul that King Saul agrees to let a teenage shepherd go fight the giant. It's shocking. But David said something, and I want everybody to like grab this. David's selling point to Saul was I killed a lion, I killed a bear, I can kill this giant.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

And I think what we have to do as people that want to have vision is also recognize what you've already accomplished. There's some things that God's brought you through. There's things you navigated as a kid, there's things you're dealing with right now, and that's going to be the strength, power, and experience that you need for that next giant. But I don't, I don't ever want to downplay. And I think the devil wants us to forget the great things that we've overcome and honestly just scare us out of things that could be in the future. So the reality is he's like, hey, here's the lion, here's the bear. So the next action item I would throw out to everybody is what if you just made a list of some of the lions and the bears that you've already killed?

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Come on.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Because there are that there is another thing. There is going to be more opposition, but we're going to start seeing it like opportunity. David wanted to be king. I think that's that stuff's in his heart. But the path to the palace was through Goliath. And so all of a sudden it's like, so wait, you're telling me if I kill Goliath, I get to marry your daughter and go from a shepherd to having some royalty. And well, then I guess I'll go kill Goliath. Not to mention he's defying my God, and I cannot let that happen.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Yeah. This is where it starts getting super practical. You read the you read the Old Testament, it's long, but you think, but that's that's thousands of years of history they're recording. So it's really easy to look back when you when you read about the Israelites getting freaked out, and you're like, how did they forget that God took them over the Red Sea, parted the Red Sea? How did he forget that God delivered them from the Egyptians? Well, you have this condensed version, this highlight reel of of Israel, and it's the same thing for us. And I'm very guilty of this. It's the same thing to your point. You forget all those things along the way. And this is why the Israelites, they were, they were so big on telling the stories. You have to repeat the stories, tell them to your kids. And on a very, very, very practical level. This is why I love journaling every day. This is why I've said it before. This is why I have my five-line daily journal that I can look back on years. And this story, I've been doing it for seven years. All I'm doing is looking back on a story of God's faithfulness. Took me through that, took me through that, took me through that. And that builds confidence every single morning. I do it right before I get in the word, right before I pray. And it's just a little reminder of God's faithfulness. So if you're not journaling, please begin and don't overcomplicate it. It's not just an open canvas. Five lines a day, go by a five-year journal. This is where you can start to look back when you do confront the next giant, when your vision does get compromised, when you do feel fearful from a vision that you believe God's put in you, you can go back and see all the other times that God's taking you through it, and you can refresh that vision every single morning.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Well, and what that does too, that's the preparation. It's interesting because it's it's a double-edged sword, it's documenting the great things, and I believe it's stirring up our heart and our spirit and getting us ready. That's that's why David could do what he did. This wasn't random. I picture him like with the flock, just got that slingshot out there, you know, knocking down beer bottles, practicing. You know what I'm saying? Like out there, he's he's talking to God, he's playing the harp a little bit, he's practicing with the slingshot. A lion comes up. Think about that. He had to think, man, I could just let him take one. I don't want to fight a lion, but that lion would have got the taste for blood and come back for more sheep. And then it's the bear. Same thing. I can't let him have one. So David's stewarding a flock, David's taking care of David's practicing, and I think that's what we have to do. We pray, we prepare, and then when it's time to attack, we attack. That's being a person of vision. So literally, Goliath simply was the next thing in line. And what we focus on gets bigger. The whole army was focused on how big Goliath was and how impossible he must be. And what David did is he focused on God because when he comes and confronts him, he goes, You come at me with a sword and a spear? What are you talking about? I come at you with the power of the living God. His focus became God, and then Goliath was simply in his way of the mission he was on because he had vision.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

So good.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

So I I do want to maybe encourage everybody with this. How about that? You're a giant killer. Like, let's land on that. Let me let that sink in just for a little bit. And if you'll see yourself like that, then all of a sudden we're not dodging or avoiding giants. It's who you are. Trust yourself, prepare yourself, and then be excited and be ready for it because there's giants that you were born to conquer. And I believe there's giants that other people can't kill, but you can, and you're going to do some of that on their behalf. That army couldn't do it. And then what's amazing, too, is David's running out there to kill the Goliath. He goes, Man, I need to grab some rocks and grabs five because Goliath had brothers. And just in case they found out what was going on, he was ready to kill some giant brothers as well. And he came to the fight ready. That's how we roll.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Someone listening right now, they're thinking, again, it it's this sounds awesome. When you think about giants, when you think about the the average person who's listening today, what what does a giant look like in our in our lives? You say you're a giant slayer, but help somebody help contextualize it for somebody who may be. Yeah, I'll go deep first.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

How about a giant slayer of a generational miss mindset that seems impossible to overcome? Some people call them generational curses. Well, my my dad and my granddad were alcoholics. You call it whatever you want. I'm just telling you, kill that giant. That does not have to be your current or your future. So let's get a vision for your life, not under that cloud or that inappropriate thought. Right? Man, you might need to kill the giant of pornography in your life. You might need to, you might need to kill the giant of thinking that you can't promote beyond where you currently are at your job. You might need to kill the giant that your kid, this is what I'm talking about, like killing giants for other people. Your kid right now is just has has bought into the lie that they're not good at math, and you need to help them kill that giant. Right? You need to kill the giant that you're on the verge of divorce and attack that thing, maybe kill the lust in your life so that we can keep the marriage right. So it's interesting how it presents itself. It might be the giant that has been a lid in your industry, and it's like, man, there's no way we could go get that client. What if we quit thinking like that? Because we're you're you're kind of still talking like a shepherd, and it's time to be a giant killer. Right? Like, let's let's not and this is interesting too. Wherever you're coming from on this, if life's great, man, don't let the comfort of life keep you from thinking, man, there's a giant I should go get. And if life's rough, don't let previous experiences keep you from leveling up and actually going and attacking. I threw some examples out there. Is there anything that kind of stirred in you as you're talking about maybe giants that need to be killed?

SPEAKER_01 31:35

What strikes me on the examples you gave, I was imagining. I mean, I think one of the most there are two there are two shocking elements of the story of David and Goliath. One is that he was a small shepherd boy, and two was the way that he killed Goliath. He killed him with a slingshot. So I thought about, thought about all those things that you described, and I thought, thought about each one of those kind of require a different weapon. You know what I mean? It's you're gonna you're gonna have to, with some of them, you're gonna have to attack those lies with words. You're gonna have to, you're gonna have to come in authority with your words and speak life over it. On others, you're gonna have to go, you may have to do it in community with somebody else through through through accountability or confession. You may on other ones, you may have to get like super practical and jump in AA or whatever it is. But you come, what's cool about it is you have to, as you take an assessment of those giants, you think about okay, what's the weapon that I need to go attack these? Because it's probably gonna be a little bit different for each one. That's a great point.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

And I think you'll have spiritual insight on on what's needed for each one, but the key is that we'll move it forward, right? Okay, so all that being said, let's get even more practical. I really believe that what we've got to do is protect the vision. We're pursuing it, we're calling out for it, we're seeing opportunity. Now let's protect it. Right, and and what you and I call this a lot of times are guardrails, but let's set guardrails in place to protect the vision. Okay, great, great verse in Proverbs. It says, where there's no vision, the people cast off restraint, but he that keeps the law, happy is he. Okay, so if there's no vision, we just kind of let it rip. I think a great example of this would be an athlete that gets injured. Man, if if if playing college ball was all they'd ever thought, and then get injured and can't do that, all of a sudden there's no vision. I I've personally seen it where we lost vision for the sport or vision for the the job or whatever it might be. And now it's like, well, who the heck cares? Let's drink a little bit, man, let's let's medicate it a little bit, and they've cast off restraint. Okay, so so that happens without vision. So if we're people that have vision, let's reverse engineer it and say, I'm gonna protect the vision on the front end so that I can walk it out. Let's put guardrails in place. And and one of these specifically, you're uh a vast expert on, but I'm just gonna throw out my initial thoughts on four guardrails that everybody's gotta have. Okay. Number one, what's your guardrail look like with the opposite sex? Gotta have them. There's so many guys are like, hey, for for work, I need to travel with a female. I man, it it's okay. Sometimes we gotta meet together. Sometimes I'm just like, man, what's your guardrail? What if we just eliminate the potential, eliminate the excuse that we could do something inappropriate? Okay, so number one, opposite sex. Number two, what you put in your body? You get to decide this, okay? But what are your guardrails? Man, if you're gonna drink, how much are you gonna drink? Man, if you feel like you need a gummy at night, what's your what's your actual guardrail for that? You're gonna drink a ton of Diet Coke, you're gonna eat fatty foods. I mean, what what are you putting in your body and what's the guardrail for that? Number three, devices. Man, what are you what are you how much time are you spending on them? And what are you allowing yourself to watch or look at when you're on said devices? And then number four is money. What's your guardrail for money? Man, what's it look like if you're gonna go invest? Man, here are the here are the traps that I run before making a good investment. We're gonna go purchase something significant. Man, I I want to go to Vegas and game a little bit. Listen, you get to do what you want, but what's your guardrail for that? Right? So those are kind of my initial four. And and if I was gonna challenge you, I'd just say, okay, what what does it actually look like? What are one or two things you have in place? Because a guardrail is powerful. If I start to swerve off the road and hit a guardrail, it's gonna mess up the paint, but it's gonna throw me back in the middle of the road. Yeah, if I swerve off the road and there's no guardrail, man, we're now we're digging a ditch, and that's really tough to recover from.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Talk anything we need to add to those guardrails? What would you say to that? I mean, I I think that the one I love the idea of guardrails is big is is this idea of what you you exactly what you just said, it may cause a little damage when you hit the guardrail. It might. And so how can we begin to continue to tighten that more and more and more where we're make where our ms the mistakes we're making are within a very narrow bandwidth? So that's the key. That's where we're trying to get to to avoid even greater damage. And you're exactly right. You think about these, I mean, there there may be others, but gosh, how much would be solved if you just can if you just had great guardrails around what you consume um food-wise and on your phone. Just even those two, that's that's the potential to mess up things really, really badly. And so when you do that, you start to get really, really practical. You have to get really practical. By the way, I there is a 0% chance tonight that I'm gonna eat an oatmeal cream pie because we don't have an oatmeal cream pie in the house, right? So, so it could get as absolutely practical as your grocery list when we're talking about that. We were talking about it before, like environment is always greater than willpower. So if we're just sitting here unnecessarily relying on our willpower to accomplish the vision we have in our life, we are going to fail. And so I'll say something I did literally this week. I found myself, again, I think about phones all the time. This is kind of this is the business I ran. I think about it a bunch. And I found myself looking at my phone before I got in the word in the morning. And I found myself at night when I'm when it's hanging out with the kids, I found myself looking at my phone, and I just thought, this is so contradictory to all the things I want for my life. So I went and set up this is super practical. You can do this. I went and set up downtime on my iPhone. It's within screen time. You can set downtime where the only thing you have access to are your phone and text. Everything else is grayed out. And I had Kristen put in the screen time password. So I don't know what it is. I know you've done something very similar with this, Chris. I don't know what the screen time password is, so I literally can't access my phone. And so now, guess what? I'm not tempted to do go on Instagram because I can't. Pollock said it when we interviewed Pollock, and I love this. He said, make decisions and then choices. Decisions are these big principles that you live by, and then your choices get so much easier as a result. So this is going to be important for you. I think probably on all four of these, I think accountability with your spouse is really helpful. I think accountability certainly with somebody else, but making sure that your someone else is helping you with this. This is why I gave Kristen the passcode and not just trusted myself to not use the passcode. Um, but I think doing it in community with people is very, very important. And if we could just there are probably five, six, seven others, but whatever. Man, if we nailed these four, that gets rid of about 90% of life problems.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

If we if we can get 90, I think we're gonna like that's decent. Keep in mind the one take my chances protecting our vision. We we put effort into calling out for it now. Now, man, God's giving it to us. We're seeing opportunity. Let's protect it. Oh my gosh. But I want you to be at the end of your life. I fulfilled the call in my life. I I caught vision and walked it out, and I was able to be sustainable because there were the proper guardrails in place.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Yes. And and this is where this is kind of where you I think even within a business context, you start thinking like vision, strategy, tactics. We're starting to get, we're starting to get kind of strategic with. I mean, if you think about vision, vision's where you're going. Strategy is how you'll get there, and tactics is our what tactics are what you do today. So if we begin, hey, you got big vision. Oh, I need, oh, and the strategies, I'm gonna set up some guardrails. Oh, and the tactics are here are exactly the things that I'm gonna start building in. And if you can get all three of those, then you start to implement uh you start to get much closer to achieving that vision. Um, I I I read related to that. I was thinking, I was like kind of researching, hey, breaking out the differences, those those three things. And I love this. It says strategy without vision is a map to nowhere. Tactics without vision is just noise. So all of those, let's continue to think through, not just this big ethereal concept of vision, but okay, now now let's break down strategy. Okay, now let's break down tactics and make three make sure all three coexist so that you can get to where you want to. Well, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

All right, grand finale here. We're actually gonna ask something very direct of you. And it comes from Habakkuk, which I don't know. Last time you just dove into Habakkuk Joey, but it's a good one. Okay, Habakkuk 2, 2. The Lord answered me and said, Write the vision and engrave it plainly on tablets so that the one who reads it will run. What a great idea. Okay. And you think about the significance of like putting it on a tablet, it's gonna be there for a while, right? We're we're in Italy recently and we're seeing statues and David and Michelangelo's like, I removed everything that wasn't David, but you think about like your vision on a tablet, and I'm writing it out. So think about this very practically for you. But I believe that you're gonna start asking God for it. You're gonna get loud about it. God, I'm I'm asking you for a vision. And again, it may not be this full, beautiful, you know, ethereal visionary thought, but it might be a couple initial steps. And I'm gonna challenge everybody to start writing it down. And again, you're gonna start thinking about it, you're calling out for it, but man, vision for my family. Man, my kids love each other, my kids want to be around each other. We're gonna enjoy our time because we help other families, right? We're writing that up, man. In my business, man, Mike, my business helps build the kingdom. My business generates more income than I could ever give away. Like that, there's some vision that we start having for this. And then to your point, it gets very practical. I mean, there's a strategy side of it, there's the tactical side of it. But like we promised at the beginning, start writing this down because what we've seen happen is one, when you read it, you're gonna be reignited and excited about it and remember that that was given to you by God, and other people are gonna read it, and they're either gonna want to get hooked up with your vision and be a resource for it, or it's gonna inspire them to get very clear on their vision, and that's great too. Right. But there's something about writing it so that other people can read it and run.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

And I think it should be, it should probably feel you should probably get a little heart flutter, I think, when you say it, when you write it down. It it should feel pretty big. I think that I I read this also about kind of the difference between vision and strategy, is if is if it can change, if your vision can change next week, then it's probably a strategy. So your vision is enduring. Chris, how many times have I heard you say when you talk about brave coaches, I want to coach a generation? And I even I even hear that as your filter when you when other opportunities come to you. You've said this so many times, and I love it. You just say, Well, does that get me closer to coaching a generation or not? And so your vision becomes such a filter for the way that you live your life. And when you haven't memorialized exactly what you're talking about, you can look at it, you can restate it, and you can be able to have that filter to say, are the things that I'm gonna do now, are my strategies, are my tactics, are they in alignment with this vision? If not, I know exactly what to do with it because my vision is enduring, my vision is not going to change. All right, so we we in thinking of all this, this a lot, and we actually this is probably worth re-listening to. If you maybe you've taken notes, maybe go listen to this with somebody, but but there's a lot, and I like how we're kind of distilling this small step to live brave and big. And the the the distillation that I like that you're putting out there is like next seven days. So let's talk next seven days. If you're thinking, okay, how do I go? How do I go cry out for vision? How do I go get vision? What do I do with vision? You're thinking about someone listening, small step. Here's what your next seven days looks like.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Perfect question. What if the next seven days you created space to cry out and hear from God? And what I mean by that is every morning, I always recommend the morning, you kill distractions and you give yourself at least 30 minutes. And you're asking God questions and write down answers. And if you would do that, I I would love you to like text us, write in, whatever you do, send us a postcard. But like be shocked at what takes place. Because if we remove distractions, if we'll cry out for vision, it's gonna be really cool what you write down. And it may not be the full, beautiful statement that you'll have someday, but I do think there's gonna be some things that get stirred in you that are gonna make a whole lot of sense as this plays out.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Chris, what if? What if everybody listening did that? Let's just let's think crazy for a second. What you do, let's imagine the life-changing families. Let's imagine what that does for a son to look up to a father who has vision. Let's think about for a daughter what that means for her when she's starting to evaluate potential guys that she may date someday, when she has a father and a mother of vision. Let's think about the mother who has vision for herself. You may know, may not know all your purpose. You may not know how you're gonna get there, mom, but if you had vision, think about the confidence that builds in your sons and daughters, and think about the generational impact that happens just by what Chris said. 30 minutes in the morning for the next seven days. That's where it begins, and I believe that can have generational impact well beyond those 30 minutes every day in the next seven days.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

We challenge you to do it. Don't overthink it, don't second guess it. Let's be people of data. Be brave and live big.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Okay, real quick, triple S for us. Subscribe, share, star, give us five stars wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you so much for joining us this week on Brave and Big. Brave and Big is produced by Stonest Podcast and the brilliant Miles Hall Britain. We will see you next week.