E1: Paul

I used to think if I just achieved enough, I’d finally feel okay.

In this episode, I’m sitting down with my friend Paul—someone who, on the outside, looked like he had it all together, but inside was dealing with anxiety, disconnection, and a quiet sense that something wasn’t right.

We talk about what shifted for him after he leaned into the work—meditation, gratitude, and learning to actually listen to himself. Not perfectly. Not overnight. But consistently.

And what I love about Paul’s story is this: the change didn’t just stay internal. It showed up in how he moves through the world—calmer, more grounded, more present.

This is what happens when you stop avoiding what’s underneath… and start taking the wheel back.

Key Takeaways:

•  Why “having it all” doesn’t ever feel like enough 
•  How I approach meditation (and why it matters) 
•  What daily gratitude can actually shift over time 
•  The role of the inner child in how we show up today 
•  How to respond instead of react 

Resources:

•  My book: Who’s Driving the Bus?
•  More at: https://andrewmychal.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I think it was probably about two weeks in. I remember coming to you and going, This stuff is working. On the court, even people are like, You're just so calm now. Like you used to be really cranky, so to speak. So it really is flooding over into all aspects of my life. Even at work, things that bothered me at work. I'm like, and it's because I've been able to regulate my nervous system through meditation.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

I was 40 years old before I finally admitted what all the success in the world couldn't fix. I was lonely. If no one ever told you that you're allowed to want more, I'm telling you now. I'm Andrew Michael, author of Who's Driving the Bus? I spent years looking like I had it all together when my inner child was quietly in pain. This series is built around the book and the real people inside it, because no one should have to figure this out alone. The real question was never where you're going, it's who's behind the wheel. I am so excited right now because my friend Paul has the day off and he could be doing anything that he wants, but he's here talking to me. For those of you who may not know, I met Paul seven months ago, and never did I know that a chance meeting with him would change my life in so many ways. So I'm excited for everybody to hear this story.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Well, thank you for having me uh join today. I'm super excited to be here and continue being a part of your journey and uh and share my experience as well. But uh yes, we uh were introduced through a group of friends going to a comedy show, Wanda Sykes. Everyone probably who meets me or was meeting me probably thought my life was amazing and or at least appeared to be amazing on the outside. And I was going through life without any joy. And uh the night that I met Andrew, he had mentioned that he had written a book and really mentioned his spiritual journey and the things that he was doing. And I was very intrigued, and quite honestly, I was somewhat envious uh in a positive way, yearning for some of that relief. About six months before meeting Andrew, I was actually in the AR for a panic attack and also learned that I had diabetes, and uh it was a really it was a really tough time, and but I kept all that in. And um Andrew sharing about his book, and uh I ordered it the next day, right, after we had gone to Wanda Sykes, and I had read a book in quite a long time, and I read that book page to page the night that I received it, and his book gave me a foundation to things that I'd already kind of known, but I didn't have words for them. So you gave me words, and I'm really uh appreciative of that. So the inner child, I knew I had was hearing that, but I didn't know how to listen and I didn't know why. Um, you taught me the concept of the adaptive child, and having that stuff um really started my journey, something I'd been really yearning for, and and that saying that people often, you know, that you hear, you know, when the student is ready, the teacher will come. And that's what Andrew, besides being a great friend um throughout all this, he's been an amazing mentor and has taught me so much that has kicked off my spiritual journey to where today I can really say that I'm back to doing things I love and feeling joy in doing them. One of the things I'm super thankful for is meditation. Um, Andrew talked about meditation and offered to teach me meditation. And I was like, sure, right. I won't be able to sit Indian style, first of all. Uh, second of all, I didn't think I'd be able to calm my mind and learn. Um, but I don't think I would be where I'm at today without that teaching of meditation. If I don't do it for two days, I can feel the difference with my nervous system. I can feel frustration, I can feel doubt coming in. Everything uh that meditation is giving me in my daily life, I'm so grateful to you for. So uh that's super yeah, I just so grateful for you teaching me meditation. Um, he has shared a lot of knowledge with me, he retreats, um, different books that I'm reading for self-help. And I just feel amazing. I like to go back to within learning that I got diabetes, I lost 50 pounds. And I always thought in my head, you know, being skinnier, being this image or that image would I would feel instantly better, but it didn't, it didn't give me any relief. Um, I am a true believer today. You need physical and mental, you need both of those to be healed and together and and working through your trauma to really find that true happiness. And I'm well on my way there, and I have a lot of it to thank to you, Andrew, and your book. I'll just stop right there for now.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Uh thank you for all the beautiful words. I'm kind of mushy like when I hear it. I'm grateful that you trusted me enough to read my book. And from my experience, after you read that, then we kind of went to the next step of practicing gratitude. You know, for me growing up, I thought there were two types of people, those who were happy and me. I didn't realize that if you want a happy, positive life, you have to practice it. So, you know, I had shared with Paul that I had, you know, spent a year going on different retreats. And one of the speakers at the retreat said if you practice the power of gratitude for more than 30 days in a row, it can change the cellular DNA in your brain. And I'm like, yeah, Roy. But I was angry and I was bitter. So once I started practicing that journal, my life kind of changed. And when I show up around new people who don't know me, I get to be that happy, positive person, but it takes a lot of work. So while I may have been Paul's teacher, in some ways he was teaching me because from the outside he looked happy and positive, I thought that he was one of those people, and then as we slowly formed our relationship, he had shared that how we show ourselves to the real world is not how we feel inside. So if you could tell the audience, Paul, after you read the book and we went to gratitude, how was that experience for you? What made you, I guess, trust me to even try the practice?

SPEAKER_02 6:44

You're a walking example of it. The energy you gave, the knowledge you're sharing. Uh, like I said, I was envious at first, uh, and and jealous, things that you shouldn't be for people, right? But uh seeing you and meeting you, like, and you were so I guess adamant, and I don't know, in a very good way, you know, your dinner, your meals, your practicing your meditation, your reading, and carving out really self-care, in which a lot of us don't do. And when you offered to teach me, and and in a very polite way, asked me to like commit to this and at least try it for 30 days, it was a last-ditch attempt in my life to not that I'd ever hurt myself, but I just felt that yearning of not wanting to go on. And I needed that. And because you supported me in teaching me, it really and I saw you as that example of where I wanted to go. I was able to follow and really invest. Um, besides you're an amazing person to be around, and you are joyous and all the things that you want out of a friendship. Something I didn't share too in in less than a, I mean, it we haven't known each other a year. And I was on medications for uh depression for 20 years. I'd recently that extent to the emergency room. I was put on anxiety medication. I've now been off these medications for six months. And that is all through the work of meditation. Uh, I went to a retreat recommended by Andrew. Uh, also had a very spiritual experience there where I connected with my inner child and was able to finally, you know, like I said before, I didn't have words for it. I didn't know it was an inner child. This felt like this voice was yelling at me and I was being pulled and I didn't know what to do. But on the retreat, I was able to let my inner child know he's okay now. He's protected and safe. And that's just really all it's changed my life. How did that feel for you? You know, when we first started these things, um, and I met you, I was not in a good space, like I've shared with you. And you and you know, um, I mean, I was willing to give it a try, but honestly, I thought it was a bunch of guru stuff, right? And that nothing was gonna come of it. But I I saw where you were and really craved to be in a space where you were at and and learning. And so I I gave it a shot. Um, at first I was like just going through the motions, but everything I was doing in my life was going through the motions without joy. I think um it was probably about two weeks in. I remember coming to you and going, this stuff is working. Like the stuff I'm putting, writing in this book every morning, you know, waking up and and putting down, you know, uh the positive things or things I want to do that day. And then at the end of the day, reflecting and these things were happening naturally, I was really blown away and it and it really helped to continue my drive of doing the journal every day, uh, meditating every day. And the longer I did these things, the more I was feeling that relief that I was yearning for. My nervous system was calming down. I was spending more and giving myself more self-care to the point where I now have a therapist. And I'm not embarrassed about having a therapist. For I used to be, and now I see my therapist every two weeks instead of every week because of the work that all started with you introducing me to your book and then the gratitude journal and and really finding that rhythm and daily practice of giving myself time to really be with my thoughts and to learn from myself and listen to myself instead of stuffing things away. Before me, had you ever meditated before? Never meditated. Thought it was a more spiritual guru stuff. Like, hey, people, what are they talking about? Meditating, they ain't doing nothing, they're falling asleep.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

When we first did the you were the first meditation client that I ever had, so I was super nervous and like sweaty. I'm grateful that you gave me that opportunity uh to grow into that. When we do our first practice meditation, I don't normally tell people how long it is. Yeah, do you remember that moment?

SPEAKER_02 11:04

I do. First of all, I was very comfortable and I was very nervous about it. Like I just met you. It's like, okay, I'm gonna close my eyes around this stranger. I don't really know all that well. And I only met like within a week, because I think it was within a week of going to Wanda Sykes, and um, so there was a lot of trust there, but you made it very, very comfortable. You you walked me through everything, you made sure if I had any questions beforehand, I got to ask those. And if I remember correctly, I felt like it was really short, but it it was the full, I was like, that's it, we're done already. And you're like, how long do you think it was? And I was like, oh, well, maybe 10-15 minutes. And we had done the full 37 minutes of meditation, and it was really beautiful. Still, I was still skeptic, to be honest, right? Um, it wasn't until we kept going and then I started doing it on my own that I really started to see the fruits of that teaching and and that dedication I was giving to myself and that self-love of taking twice a day 37 minutes. Uh, it doesn't sound like a lot, you know, an hour and 14 minutes a day to give to yourself, but it is challenging and and making sure you're consistent in doing it, but it's so worth it.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Can you tell the difference if you don't do it after work?

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Yes, I can tell the difference if I don't do it. I actually yearn for it and I yearn for talking to myself or spending that that peaceful time. I also find that when I don't meditate now, little things bother me quickly. Uh, and things that shouldn't, right? They're it's like it's no big deal, it should just roll off your back. And other people notice too. They they ask me, like, why are you so calm? Like you're the old Paul, even on the I'm a I'm a tennis player on the court, even people are like, You're just so calm now. Like you used to be really cranky, so to speak. So it really is flooding over into all aspects of my life, even at work, things that bothered me at work. I'm like, and it's because I've been able to regulate my nervous system through meditation.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

We've listed a lot of the positives, and as our relationship has evolved, I've triggered your inner child, and vice versa. Growing up, I never knew that it was okay to apologize or to say that you're sorry. Are you comfortable sharing one or two of the moments where I pushed that inner child inside of you and talking about that feeling that came up?

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Some of my trauma that I've been working on and learning from childhood is a lot of feeling of worthlessness. So the way someone can talk to you or their actions, you can easily feel triggered, right? And when you're feeling triggered, you're gonna respond to that. And it, if you're not aware, and or your nervous system is not regulated to uh, you know, you have the fight, flight, or freeze. Um, a lot of times I flight right away, just dump them. And um and really you led by example, Andrew, right? I don't remember what it was. I think we were going to the beach, and I said something to you that triggered you, and you even said, Hey, I need to be honest with you, you've triggered me, and you shared. And that example, the first time, I I think there's only been two times the first time, because you led by example when it happened to me the first time with us. I was easily able to, hey Andrew, this is hard for me, but you triggered me and shared back with you. You gave me that safe space to actually learn to tell people, hey, you've triggered me. Here's why, here's what I own. Give me more information so that I can understand because this is how I'm interpreting the situation, rather than maybe it being something of trauma or childhood feelings. And that's I think why our friendship is is where it's at today as well. Because we've been able to have, and I also think it was you that said, uh, I think I've said a com no, I think it was my therapist, but uh I don't like confrontation. People who don't like confrontation uh tend to run from things or pull back, but instead of saying confrontation, uh it's an opportunity to have communication or a conversation. And so whenever I have those feelings, it's going to be a confrontation. I really try to reframe it. And okay, I'm going into this as a conversation. And it's very easy now that I've meditated and I have uh learned about myself and learned about these things to have conversations that aren't confrontations.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

What made you decide to go to the retreat in Costa Rica?

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Well, being so enamored by your journey and the steps that I you had shared with me, you had been taking a retreat seemed like the next logical thing for me to do. Um, and if you remember, I really wanted to go to a silent retreat, right? Because you had mentioned those. And through meditation, I have found that I really love silence. I love just being in the silence, I love listening to nature. Um, so one of the things I love to do on a Sunday is just sit in my backyard and listen to the birds and no thoughts or anything. And then you had mentioned their retreat in Costa Rica, and I'd never been to Costa Rica, and I thought okay, let me, and it was coming up, and I dove in headfirst. Uh, being really honest on the way there, I'm like, what am I doing? Like, why am I going to this? I felt uncomfortable. I'm truly an extrovert a lot of times in my life. Um, so I wasn't really sure, but I was I was doing it. Um, I did know that being in nature, four hours in the middle of the jungle. And so if anything, I was gonna be in nature and away from the concrete jungle and get to read my book and other books that I was reading. And but what I found was myself. I I really found myself. I found my inner child. Hopefully, I don't get weepy-eyed here, but uh I really connected with my inner child and and danced with him and let him know he was okay now, and it really lifted a lot of my feeling of worthlessness, and it gave me a really sense of safety, which I've been missing in my life.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

I am grateful that you trusted me. I carry the same inner child inside of me, and there's not a lot of places in the world where that little boy or girl can come out and play. So I'm glad that I found a place and that you got to experience that too. It's cathartic and it's beautiful. You take life like so serious, like pull a stick out of your ass, like go have fun, dance, joke. If you really want to see the true definition of joy, watch children. So I'm really grateful that you had a wonderful experience there.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Yeah, and being around others who are similar in their journeys, maybe not the same feelings, or but we're all there for a little bit of the same thing to connect with others that are like us, looking for an experience. And at this retreat, you had the option of disconnecting, and which I did choose to disconnect from technology. And you know, I turned my phone off for that week and really focused on uh myself and what the retreat had to offer. It changed my life, and I can't wait to do my next one and really step away from the concrete jungle and really connect with myself and and journal and read and and and do all those things and meditate. It's the most beautiful experience to meditate in the middle of the jungle with the nature sounds and and uh hear your thoughts, your own thoughts clearly and and feel good about them. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

I just want to close by saying thank you to you. Thank you for being vulnerable, thank you for trusting me. After going through this process with me, how is life different for you now that your wise adult is driving the bus?

SPEAKER_02 19:02

I am spending a lot more time on myself, improving myself than chasing things that don't matter, uh friendships that don't matter, people that don't serve me purpose in a healthy way, which you know, I think a lot of times we get wrapped up in society and and social media, some of those things that really you're not seeing who you truly are and who you need to be, and you're chasing things because everyone else seems to be chasing these, or at least that's the perception that those things are giving you. So uh, and feeling good and confident about letting people go that aren't serving me or are treating me the way I should be treated, or because I didn't treat myself in that way, right? You you attract things that are similar. So if I didn't see good about myself, I probably attracted others that were similar. But now that I I'm more awake and working constantly, I only want those things in my life as well. So that's where I am today. And I feel good about it. And the old Paul would not, he would constantly beat himself up. Like, why did you let that person go? Why did you cut him out? Why did you whatever those thoughts were? And now I've the decisions I make today, I'm super confident quickly about them and feel good about them.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

If something in this conversation resonates with you, share it with someone who needs to hear it. Because the truth is, none of us were meant to figure this out alone. If you'd like to go deeper, you'll find more resources, including the book, upcoming events, and ways to connect at andrewmichael.com. And until next time, remember, no matter where you are in your journey, it's never too late to take the wheel back. From my inner child to yours, I'm Andrew Michael, and this is who's driving the bus.