Tampon Animals with Toby Lawless & Steve Waltien

Snarks and Crafts kicks off with a double feature: producer Toby Lawless and former Late Show with Stephen Colbert writer Steve Waltien join Claire Wyckoff to chat, gab, and build majestic animal sculptures…out of tampons.

Watch us actually make these things: https://youtu.be/A4fZvGjRqAg

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Welcome to Snarks and Crafts, where today we are making tampon animals.

SPEAKER_03 0:05

I created a spider.

SPEAKER_06 0:08

Oh, what?

SPEAKER_04 0:09

Um that was happening.

SPEAKER_05 0:12

With my friend and producer Toby Lawless and Stephen Colbert writer Steve Volteen starting now.

SPEAKER_06 0:18

Toby, Steve, welcome to Snarks and Crafts. Let's look inside your boxes.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

Did Steve already unboxed? I haven't.

SPEAKER_06 0:26

Steve's been excited about the tampons. I think long. No, I mean I've been talking about it. Have you been practicing your tampon animals?

SPEAKER_04 0:33

I have not. I did this moments ago. And I haven't opened opened this box yet.

SPEAKER_06 0:38

That's the most important box, the U by Cotex. This week, it's that time of the month. From tampon jumbo prawns to E Mu by Cotex. Today I'm making tampon animals with Toby Lawless and Steve Waltine. Hey guys! Welcome to Snarks and Crafts.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us. Oh, there's another one of the colours.

SPEAKER_06 1:01

Each of my guests got sent a box of supplies based on the craft that they chose. So I'm gonna ask Toby and Steve to begin opening theirs up and getting all their craft supplies out.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

I want to say this one while I introduce you. Okay. Amazon shipping.

SPEAKER_06 1:16

That that's our USPS at work right there. I just to be clear, I chose the cheapest mailing option possible.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Got a couple googly eyes that fell out of the mouse. Okay. Super glue.

SPEAKER_06 1:26

Toby's coming to us from Los Angeles, where you've spent, what, over 20 years as a casting director, actor, improviser, casting coach, sound producer, father of two. Steve just finished a seven-year run as a traitor to the crown of the king of the United States as the writer, a writer for Late Show with Steven Colbert, which ended two weeks ago on May 21st. Because our president not only likes to diddle children, he is one. Is that correct? Would you say that both of those resumes are correct?

SPEAKER_03 2:02

I would say, with respect to the other writers, Steve is the writer.

SPEAKER_06 2:06

The writer. He is the writer. And just for a little funsies, we're also in the same college improv group called the Otter Nonsense Players. So I think it's wildly, wildly appropriate that today we will be making tampon animals as otters.

SPEAKER_04 2:21

It didn't even occur to me that we should, I should make a tampon otter.

SPEAKER_06 2:26

You want to make a tampon otter in honor of it?

SPEAKER_04 2:28

I'm gonna try.

SPEAKER_06 2:29

That's what that's absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 2:31

I might try as well.

SPEAKER_06 2:32

I love this. So um Tobes, you're you're un unboxing your box.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

You did a good job taping this up, actually. I got okay. I'm open. I'm in. Wow. Feathers.

SPEAKER_06 2:43

Okay, you got feathers?

SPEAKER_03 2:45

I got a ziploc. A sandwich bag. Ziploc with feathers. Did you pack this?

SPEAKER_06 2:49

I did pack this. I did. I actually I went to Michael's. There should be feathers in there, maybe some pipe cleaners.

SPEAKER_04 2:57

Well, I got lots of pipe cleaners.

SPEAKER_06 2:58

I definitely put it.

SPEAKER_04 2:59

Claire, is there a thought process? Yeah, is there a thought process between like two kinds of glue? One is like super glue.

SPEAKER_06 3:06

Like this is like one's fabric glue and one's super glue. I sent you both. Yeah, yeah, not sure. Some of it was just to see kind of what uh what y'all wanted to make based on what animal you put. Just to say oh, but uh you know, I guess some wire as well.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

Oh yeah. That's good. That's gonna be useful. That's gonna be useful.

SPEAKER_06 3:29

So pipe cleaners, feathers, glue, googly eyes, some construction for those baubles. These clips. And I would say most important. Do you have these?

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Do you have these, Steve?

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Do you have these?

SPEAKER_06 3:41

Is everyone prepared to do a little snarks and crafts? Yeah. Okay. Now, the most important thing that you all got in the package I sent you is the box of you by Cotex, right? So confirmed.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Yours are open already.

SPEAKER_06 3:55

Mine are opened already. I've I've already been concepting and playing with my tampons. So I guess the first question I have for you two, you guys got a list of different crafts to choose from, and you all picked tampon animals. So the first question I have is what made you pick tampon animals, comma you perbs?

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Obviously the most fun.

SPEAKER_06 4:17

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

But well, tampon is sounding functional. From what I'm understanding, is it's it's function there, there's like moving parts, you know, that gives us more to play with.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

I think Little Animals is cute, and I think that I, you know, for perhaps obvious reasons, have never like really played around with these much. And so to have a reason to do it seems, you know, as you pointed out, you know, like we're we're both boy dads. Well, Toby also uh has uh has a girl child, but you like, yeah, I've never had the opportunity to like really explore this.

SPEAKER_06 4:49

So one might say we're killing two birds with one stone while we make birds with tampons. You'll be learning about our female anatomy while having funsies at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Are we gonna be learning about female anatomy? Is that part of the is this part of the course?

SPEAKER_06 5:06

I think we're about to while you guys open these tampons. I think that's a nice little segue.

SPEAKER_04 5:10

Okay I didn't think that I was like terribly naive about these, but I will say that I've I'm I've already encountered a word on this package that makes me and the word is the word is unscented. And the existence of unscented tampons implies implies the existence of scented tampons, which is something that has, I mean, I guess now that I'm thinking about it, sort of like, of course that exists, but it never do you not know the tampons have flavors? I did not. I didn't know the vaginas had taste buds.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

It's the bottom mouth. It's the bottom mouth.

SPEAKER_06 5:51

They do have it is, it's it is, yes, the if if if tampons have flavors, that would imply that it's so that our because our vaginas we do, they do have taste buds. That they didn't they didn't teach you that in sex ed?

SPEAKER_03 6:02

I I have a question actually.

SPEAKER_06 6:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

As as we're here. This says pull to click. What's what do we need a click for? Pull to click.

SPEAKER_06 6:10

Okay, so we're learning a lot right now. Why don't we open the tampons? Can I ask what it's like?

SPEAKER_04 6:16

Honestly, are are they commonly scented? Is that a thing? No. I was joking. They are not scented. Okay, so so that is the I'm not crazy for thinking that's like sort of that was a surprising word.

SPEAKER_06 6:26

Unsented scented tampons seems like something they would have done like in the 50s. I don't know that I've ever encountered.

SPEAKER_04 6:32

Scented tampons is not something you ever encountered.

SPEAKER_06 6:33

It's not like No, I don't believe that I've ever encountered actual scented tampons.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

So for you guys, while you guys are talking, I'm um I'm chatting, and uh they it says most major brands offer unscented tampons. That's generally the most commonly recommended. However, they were created primarily as a marketing solution to a concern that many people have about menstrual odor. So there you go.

SPEAKER_06 6:57

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 6:58

Okay. Well, but it it just also implies like a lot of different possible scents, and then the idea that it's like Yeah, what scent would you go for? Yeah, like a cooking. Not apricot. Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 7:11

You know, it's funny because typically when I sell smell men's deodorant, I like that. So it would probably go like evergreen. Oh, do you know what? I love the smell of like Christmas. I would do like a fur Christmas.

SPEAKER_04 7:22

It's always Christmas down there.

SPEAKER_06 7:24

It's always, it's always a gift every time you you get to experience my vagina. Yeah, it's your opening gift. That's great. It is, it's the holidays. Um and as a white woman, I would say pumpkin spice tampons, I think, probably would be. I just think it had a little something extra. I would go pumpkin spice tampon, I think, if I had to. Um so now these these are the U by Cotex. This is what I picked to send you, partly because they were small and compact. Uh smart. This is the super but not super plus. Have you all ever have you ever played? What is it like to play with a tampon?

SPEAKER_04 8:00

I didn't know that this was gonna come out of here like a missile.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

This is this is giving me um demogorgon like Stranger Things vibes. Because of those, huh?

SPEAKER_06 8:12

Look at the demogorg. Wait, that is demogorgon y. Look at that. It is a missile too. You like you almost feel like there's a missed opportunity here, not being able to. What does the click indicate?

SPEAKER_03 8:22

What does that you're fully reaching?

SPEAKER_06 8:24

Click is a little bit the six-minute abs versus five-minute abs. Like, I think they're all in an arms race to see who can come up with something.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Some marketing.

SPEAKER_06 8:32

This is a marketing that does not change anything about the actual tampon experience.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

Like, this doesn't need to be pink, it doesn't need to be clear, but they are gonna they're gonna I like that you I like that you have this little window in the middle so you can see the uh the string to make sure the string is not a magic trick. The string actually does go all the way through. It is just in case you were wondering. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 8:54

This applicator. Wait a minute. Okay, hold on. I'm trying to get my head around, I'm trying to see if I can intuitively figure out what's happening. But you can't do it. I'm guessing that that the applicator makes me think that this this inserts, right? And then you push this.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Is that the movement, by the way? What he just did?

SPEAKER_04 9:14

Yeah, can you do that again? Can we get a little scoop? I pull oh, but I don't want these pointy demogorgon things in my areas. No. Yeah, that's hard. Wait, what do I what am I doing here? I'm going that's right. That's right. Sewing in. That's helpful. Then do I pull on the string though? Or was that? That's after.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

That's after. That's a takeout. I think I'm stringing.

SPEAKER_06 9:34

You're suggesting that the string goes downside. You wouldn't put it this way?

SPEAKER_03 9:39

Never. This way? That would make is that the way you're supposed to put it?

SPEAKER_04 9:43

Put it in. I would go over. I wouldn't go from the back.

SPEAKER_06 9:47

Okay, how many of these do you think someone would use over the course of their period?

SPEAKER_04 9:50

Oh, well, it depends, doesn't it? It depends on your flow. Let's say average and average is what, four or five days? Yes. Hey, is that like that? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So five days, I think you're going to use a couple a day. I think one overnight. So like three a day, so 15.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

But listen. But that's a lot. Listen, we know that this depends on your flow. This is for a regular flow. I'm going to go one a day. I'm going to go one a day over five days.

SPEAKER_06 10:18

Like a vitamin.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

Yeah, one a day.

SPEAKER_06 10:21

No, Steve was waiting for that. Sick it in the morning. Oh, really? Yeah, I think you can't.

SPEAKER_04 10:25

I think you need to change midday. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 10:27

Did you can I ask you? Did you guys expect these to be like this when they came out? Like, did I knew someone who was shocked that they weren't hollow.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Well, didn't the old ones were like cardboard tubes? I I knew I sort of had this understanding.

SPEAKER_06 10:39

Which I'm fine. Yeah, they've made them all plastic. They really have made them seem now like missiles that you could like these are very high-tech little.

SPEAKER_04 10:47

Are we gonna answer the question of how they do how they do get out of here?

SPEAKER_03 10:51

Like this, I don't know. This is my take. This is my take.

unknown 10:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:54

But yours is going up way further than mine. You just take it and you and it extends, it absorbs, and then you pull it out.

SPEAKER_06 11:04

Yet do you leave the pink thing in?

SPEAKER_03 11:05

Oh, that's a question.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

I don't know. It's sort of saying it's the applicator. No, it holds it.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

But what's the point?

SPEAKER_06 11:11

No.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Pull to click. It says pull to click into full size protection. So I guess you could choose how far you want to go. But full size protection.

SPEAKER_04 11:21

Click.

SPEAKER_06 11:22

That's what it is. I didn't get the click though. On a late day, you've only put it a little bit up there, but on a pull. No! But you just said that. You're like on a heavy day, you can really get it up.

SPEAKER_04 11:37

Then I should be able to the the vagina holds this. Clamps it. The vagina holds up. I should be able to pull the pink part out and this will stay.

SPEAKER_06 11:48

Yes. Yep. So it's.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Can you reuse this for something else?

SPEAKER_06 11:51

Yep. I use it as a cigarette holder. Exactly that. So you can put a joint in the demogorgon claws.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

Oh, that's a good way to hide. Like back in the day when you really had to hide a like a one-hitter or something. Did you ever have like a tampon one hitter?

SPEAKER_04 12:05

That looks like a wild. In a garbage can, like yeah, in a vagina. In the men's bathroom? Yeah. In the men's bathroom. That's weird, right? That's what they want, Toby. That's what they want. They want them in the men's bath. Biden's America.

SPEAKER_06 12:22

Tan pollen's everywhere. So it is a real rocket launch, though, because it goes, it launches, and then this part drops.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

Oh, this is the fuselage.

SPEAKER_06 12:31

This is the fuselage. So after NASA launches the rocket, I'm gonna open another tampon. So we're let's say we're in Houston. Is that where it is? No, Cape, we're at Cape Canaveral, okay? It's your period at Cape Canaveral. Launch boo! Into vagina. Then one the click. Then it goes in. Right? Right? My the vagina teeth, the dentata teeth grabs it. Yep. And then we're back on the moon. This is back down to Earth. This falls back down to Earth. And then yeah, then we go to the moon. So that's how that works.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

So well, let's. That's the first phase. But what about the re-entry? Okay. No, you cannot reuse. How much no.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

That's a reuse. This isn't the this is not doing the SpaceX where it lands.

SPEAKER_04 13:24

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Well, he did have a good point because the space land and they're caught by the chapsticks, you know?

SPEAKER_03 13:32

So that's not being reused. But this, when this re-enters, where this well, I know I've read enough signs. Don't flush these.

SPEAKER_06 13:38

Yes, it's true. You don't flush those.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

That's dangerous to the public sewage system. Yeah, yeah. So what do you think you put them in the garbage?

SPEAKER_04 13:45

We're wrapping them in like toilet paper and throwing them away. Yep. That's what happens.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

Well, here's a scientific question. Please. How much weight can this absorb? I mean a weight, right? More more than you would think. Like when you yeah, is it like when it comes out of the back? It's densely packed. Like how much is it adorable absorb? Is it a lot?

SPEAKER_06 14:07

It's like a tablespoon of liquid, maybe, or a teaspoon of liquid. So it definitely feels Do you know what? Dunk this in a cup of water.

SPEAKER_04 14:13

Yeah, I'm fine.

SPEAKER_06 14:14

And pull it out in 10 seconds and you'll cut. Or like pull it out in Oh, is is Steve getting a cup of water? I'm I'm trying to get out of here. Well, I have one right here.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

Yeah, get one. Okay. I'm gonna let Steve do it because I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_06 14:23

I thought we were doing tampon animals, but okay, we're getting cups of water here.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

Okay. Okay. That's good. Well, is it wait before you do, how much water do you have in there? Is that boiling water? Yeah, get a tea mug. Steve said he's gonna treat this like he's drinking tea.

SPEAKER_06 14:40

Okay, it is. You're gonna teabag the tampon. That's what that is. Okay. So definitely.

SPEAKER_04 14:45

Oh my god, this is beautiful.

SPEAKER_06 14:47

It's really going so fast. No, it's like it's like when you have those like things that ex that open up in the bathtub for kids.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

It's like Oh, you should do you should give that to your kid.

SPEAKER_06 14:58

It's true.

SPEAKER_04 14:59

It is actually play with. But look at the biggest thing. Okay, it gets. Well, it gets big fast, but I but but I did I did think maybe it would get bigger.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

Did it reach terminal velocity?

SPEAKER_04 15:09

And this quickly this to this to me is why I feel that my take is correct that you're you're gonna need multiple a day.

SPEAKER_06 15:17

You're right. I'm now wondering though, that like exploded in such a fun little way to watch. Why don't they make these like fun like why aren't there little why isn't this little star shape? Like why doesn't this look like a rainbow? You want a happy face?

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Think about what you're doing in it. No. That would that would that wouldn't be a good vibe.

SPEAKER_06 15:35

What if it can't should come out? Oh my god, that'd be so funny if it came out like like a red little character.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

Like, but I do think they should make children's toys out of these and introduce them early so kids get familiarized and they're not so scary, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 15:50

Yeah, call this Tammy tampon. Yeah. Be like, hey.

SPEAKER_04 15:54

Well, yeah, this is what we're doing. We're making them into tampons.

SPEAKER_06 15:57

Yeah, kind of what we're doing today. We're gonna convince kids to play with to use tampons by turning them into cute little animals.

SPEAKER_03 16:03

I'm gonna start I'm gonna start going on this.

SPEAKER_06 16:05

I think it's time to start going. Would you all like to start crafting? It's craft time! Here's a question. Do you all know what animals you're making today? Well, Steve said otter, so I'm gonna. I think I'm gonna try at least one of them. I'm gonna try it. Okay. Would you mind if I I'm just gonna share my screen and just give you some thoughts that I had played with just to give you a few ideas? Sometimes I like to, I just started doing a few riffs in case you know you weren't sure what you were gonna do. This first one is called the U by Cotex. Here's the barracuda.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Barracuda.

SPEAKER_06 16:37

Let's not overthink it. Giraffe. The tampon has a long tail.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Ooh, I like okay. I like how you that actually kind of looks like two together.

SPEAKER_06 16:48

Yeah, I think you could use two tampons for this one. Uh the next, the tampon was one. That's cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

This is gonna be I'm gonna experiment a little with the ingredients first before I commit to an approach.

SPEAKER_06 17:03

A literal pussycat. This one, Steve, I don't know how mad you are right now about everything that went down with Trump, but maybe you could do a tampon bald eagle. These colors do bleed, was one more. I like that, actually. Yeah, I thought that that was nice because I do think the tampon does look a bit uh like a bald eagle. And I don't know why this feels like it would make certain men mad, which is you know my passion. I think it would. Yeah, I think it would so that was just where I was playing, where some ideas I had had. Okay. See, I think I might try to make a butterfly out of my tampon.

SPEAKER_04 17:41

I think it might just might be easy. Look, this is mine done.

SPEAKER_06 17:47

Wait, is that a tampon? Stop it! Stop it! What did you do? How did you get it?

SPEAKER_04 17:52

I wrapped bike cleaners around it. Yeah, this guy is gonna be like on the shelf in my son's room for a while. He's cute.

SPEAKER_06 18:01

Far too successful too quickly.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

I'm dying. Okay. I might be able to give him feet too. Well, let's see.

SPEAKER_06 18:09

Yeah. While we do this, can I can I talk a little bit, Steve, about Colbert? Can I ask you some questions? Okay, I did a little research, and this is what I found about the last nine months. Because it's at this point, I would say it's a piece of US history. So, to give background, this is what I found. Nine months ago, while I paint my while I while I color a tampon green, nine months ago, CBS announced the end of the late show with Colbert because Stephen Colbert used humor to hold the president accountable, which Trump didn't like because he is a pedophile and infant in chief. But since he is also the head of the FCC, that means when he's unhappy, mergers between CBS and their parent company, Paramount, don't go well with Sky Dance. So then Paramount said, Well, I don't want this to stop the merger with Sky Dance, so we're now gonna shut down Colbert as a pacifier to keep our infant in chief president child happy so we can make more money. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_04 19:15

I that that sounds like there's a lot of speculation in there, which I I uh can neither corroborate or not, but I I think what I know for certain about it is that you know whether or not Donald Trump actually had a tangible effect on it, he says he did. Like that's not you know, like that's not disputed. When he he he says, I hope I had a lot to do with Steven's crazy. Right, he was celebrating, he absolutely not only celebrated, I mean it's one thing to celebrate, but it's also he also at one point did post like I hope I had a lot to do with it, and I hope Kimmel's next. And and he actually actively pressured ABC. He said, You gotta cancel Jimmy Kimmel, so did Melania. And so yeah, they're they're putting their thumbs on the scales of it. I the thing I don't know for certain, right? Like I can't it is is whether or not that is like the reason that CBS did what they did. It certainly seems like it's a fair speculation.

SPEAKER_06 20:19

Speculation. People speculated that it was because Yeah, it's a fair speculation that it's part of the, you know, Colbert was one of the biggest, funniest critics of the president, who has been known to have very thin skin.

SPEAKER_04 20:32

So speculation was Yeah, I mean, and to quote my best friend Bruce Springsteen, you know, he's the first man to have his television show canceled because the president can't take a joke. And I think that that So for me though, what what I know to be true and it has been emotionally interesting for me, is that whether or not, I mean, it's I'll leave it to others to speculate, you know, how much the president personally had to do with it. I know the president thinks he had something to do with it. Uh you know, like that's more interesting than and then he says, I hope I had a lot to do with it, and I'm celebrating it, and I'm glad it's you know, and so he said that around the time of the cancellation, and then he said it as it was coming to a close, and then he said the day after the day after the case.

SPEAKER_06 21:16

Videos where he didn't he post a video of throwing.

SPEAKER_04 21:18

Post a video of an AI slop of throwing Steven in the trash. And uh Yeah, so I I just think that he it's really weird for me to have the president of the United States celebrating the loss of my job. And like that he would and as Steven said, you know, Steven said it's it's it's the saddest thing in the world that he even is paying attention. Right to late night comedy. Late night comedy, right? Like that that's um of all the things that should be demanding his attention. Right. It's not like he's some like retired old man. I mean he is he is an old man, but it's not like he's some retired guy with nothing to do. I mean he he has the most important, arguably, you know, the most important job in the world and he cares, you know, what the what the what the clowns say about him at 11 30. That's so dumb. And it's so, so, so, so, so sad. And even if you were somebody who agrees with whatever he stands for, which that in itself is crazy to me, that that that should make you so mad. That should make you so mad that the president of the United States spends his time caring about that, right? Right. No, I think and posting about it, and and and I think you're right, like allegedly putting his thumb on the scales. And even if he didn't, he's claiming credit for it. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:48

Which is almost, yeah, which is its own. No, because you think that the president is supposed to be defending the First Amendment and creating jobs.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

And like Yes, to have the president celebrating uh loss and loss of jobs. But I mean, look, I'm sure like people uh, you know, privately that's the thing about him is he has no filter. He's like, you know, I I I I I believe like pe sometimes people are like, well, what's his secret plan? What's he thinking? I'm like, he has no secrets. He he's never had a thought that he hasn't shared out loud. Like, he's uh I think that's another thing that that is so exhausting about him is that I'm sure previous presidents, all the previous presidents, right, have had people in the media that they dislike, you know, members of the press, comedians or whatever, that that somehow catch their awareness and they're like, wow, I this asshole bugs me. But the self-control to just like to not say it, you know, to just kind of be able to realize that that's like beneath the dignity of the uh the office. But really weird, really weird for me to be a part of something. I mean, I also have a a lot uh a lot of pride about it because of where it it because I of course you know to be part of something that the the you know the Oval Office is directly commenting on or cares about and to have it be like in a negative way, to have him be like, I'm glad you lost your job, dude.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

So weird. So ask a question, like when you like, especially these last few months, like how did you personally, when it came to the work that you did, which as I understand it was like around the monologue, right? Yeah, and how did you how did it change your approach?

SPEAKER_04 24:25

Yes, how to change well, didn't re it didn't really change the approach, is the answer. Is I mean, I think some people were like, oh wow, Steven's gloves are gonna really come off now. And I think that part of the reason that Steven, again, somewhat speculatively, but part of the reason that Steven got canceled is because he was ne he never was pulling punches or wearing gloves. And so I think that the marching orders, such as they were coming out of the cancellation, were were kind of like, let's keep doing what we do. I mean, I think it's always weird, it was always weird for us to to be the story, and that's something that was never particularly comfortable. Like we we I think we preferred it when we were like, oh, it's like let's not talk about our own show in the monologue. Right, you were telling other people's stories. Absolutely can't avoid it. That's why this like late night fraternity that has developed, I think, is really sweet. Like this community. It's like when when they came for us, you know, all the other shows, and I think sort of like Kimmel in particular, but really all of them, but like, you know, I I feel like there were a lot of things that we didn't need to say or to tackle head on about our own cancellation because our like friends and colleagues were able to uh to to say that stuff that makes more sense coming from them. And then when they came for Kimmel, we were able to felt more made more sense and was more appropriate, and it was one of our one of my favorite sort of monologues, although I was furious that we had to do it. But like when they came for Kimmel, that episode uh the next day was one of the only times on the Lake Show that we brought back the word, which is Steven's segment from the Colbert pour. Right. And had Steven play that character, and so like that to me was like really fun and really crazy and surreal and fun to get to work on because I never worked on the Colbert pour and I I'm a huge, huge fan of it. Like I I just think it's like a a singular piece of of television history. I agree. And I think like I never quite got used to, you know, Steven's a guy who I got to be around a lot, but he's just like this massive celebrity, and so over time, uh, I I'd like to think over seven years, like I was able to sort of like be normal and not be starstruck around him. I I developed this, like it took a little while to get used to that. But the person who showed up very, very rarely, but who I was always starstruck around was when he would like change his facial muscles and become the character. Like, because that's that's different, right? And um so very occasionally in in the morning meeting or something, he'd be talking, and you're like, Yeah, exactly. And I'd be like, This is a guy that I yeah, it's that reaction. Like, so I'm talking to Steven, and I'm like, this is a guy that I know, I mean it's no big deal. Yeah, this is my boss, and then he would right, and then he would say, like, well, you know, like the if the character would say, and then all of a sudden his face would change and he would talk like the character, and I'd be like, Holy shit, that guy is He'd get into truthiness. That's crazy. Yeah, and that's why I loved that. Any time that we played with the character, which was uh only a a couple of times, and when it was really called for and really appropriate, and that day after they came for Kimmel was one of those days where we we got to do the the character, and the character is just I told one of the former Colbert rapport writers, who's was not a late show writer, but that had done the Colbert rapport, and and I was talking to him about it, and I said, Oh my god, you know, it's crazy sometimes when Steven becomes the character, it's like um it's like a it's like a his whole face changes, and I get really starstruck, and he's like, he the analogy was great. He was like, Yeah, it's like the difference between Walter White and Heisenberg, you know, like it's the difference between like the Walter White who who's like you know, his wife and family American is this one guy, and then the guy who's like I'm the man who knocks. Like when you're like, holy shit, there's a whole nother fucking person in there that's yeah. Um so yeah, that was yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:31

Well you because you talked a little bit about how vulnerable, like you kind of just explained, like, as close as you got to work with him, he was still at times like this massive celebrity. I sometimes think about how stressful it sounds to also be constantly trying to make a massive celebrity laugh for shows that have to be produced every single day. And I I I was curious, like, what is that the most anxiety-inducing thing ever? Like, I like pitching ideas to Stephen Colbert, or like if someone said to me, Hey, yeah, we have to be on TV tomorrow, make the funniest thing you come up with the funniest thing you can. Like, I'd have to put on diapers, like just thinking about that makes me want to crap my pants. Like, what is it?

SPEAKER_04 29:15

No, I know, you mean it no, that's true. It's anxiety provoking, it really is, but I I think too, like one of the reasons I think he's a great boss is he, you know, he can't not he can't not be Stephen Colbert, but he he uh tries to make you feel really comfortable. I think what you realize too is part of the job, especially for a daily late night show, and one of the things I really miss about it is like you're really working in terms of volume. So you're pitching, you know, I don't know what the ratio is, but it's high. Like you're pitching hundreds of jokes every day, or you're writing hundreds of jokes, you know, for for you know, what ends up being in a monologue, I don't know, like 15. Every writer is pitching, and so you just have to think of it like shots on goal, and you have to know that a lot of it's not gonna work or it's not gonna resonate. And so it's kind of it's gotta be that's the improv background of it, right? It's gotta be sort of okay to try stuff and bomb.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

Sort of though. I I'm curious actually, Steve, on that because I I would I would actually say, like, on from the improv side, like not really, because we don't really have you're just in it and you're just you're it's it's happening live, and so it's more forgiving, right? You're not like, oh, I thought it, here's my pitch. I already did my thinking, these are my best ones. And and I'm curious, sort of twofold, like how from a creative, from a creative perspective, you over those seven years, like that, that you know, and and Claire too, you know, the idea of writing and pitching and like being comfortable like with people, crickets, right? Like the idea of like, what about this? And no one responds, and or or or like whatever that like the no is. You know, it's like no, it's not that one. And like how how does that become normalized? And how are you like, okay, cool, that's good, or what what is it when something hits, and like how do you adjust as you're going to prepare for stuff that you're like, okay, I think like because obviously too, like you start to get a sense of someone's sense of humor, whether it's you know, Steven or your other your the showrunner, the head writers, or the the room, and like who what people are gonna like, and so I I'm curious, sort of I guess my first question is like that process of like how did you what is your process for like pitching and getting comfortable with things that like aren't you know, like you said, like you know that the majority of these things aren't gonna go, but you're any one of them might.

SPEAKER_04 31:30

Yeah, that's that's tricky. You I I feel like you never quite you never quite get totally like you develop a callus, but you never quite get completely immune to the feeling of of having something not resonate. But again, I think I think the truth is that it's a numbers game, and that unlike it is similar to improv in the sense that it's like it never gets polished to perfection because there's always 530 taping, and so you're getting it only as good as it can get to that point, and then it's like an etch a sketch and it it erases until the next day, and so it's like your best day doesn't matter and your worst day doesn't matter in the sense that like as long as you it's okay to not have things hit and to not make him laugh. I think what's not okay probably is to like to never make him laugh, right? Right, so to say you gotta be like well, yeah. Well, I think, yeah, I think the the concern for when you when you'd worry about your job security is if like it's if nothing is ever resonating, right? And I think that the hiring process hopefully screens for uh people that have at least the ability to get the sense of humor of the show. And so I think it's like it's okay to pitch something that falls absolutely flat. It's just probably not okay to do that like 30 times in a row. And then you're like, oh my god, nothing is. And so that's what it's sort of like you get, you know, every time you uh for for me, it felt like every time something landed with a thud or was not received, it just put more pressure on the next thing, you know? It's like because it's like, oh, I can't have five in a row that really fucking bomb. Because then people will start to be like, whoa, that guy never says anything funny. Like, but but nobody, nobody is hitting every time. And and I think that also is part of the realization is built into the process, is that uh the reason we write so many more jokes than than there are room for in the broadcast is because we know that inherently, like not all these jokes, this this kind of joke, it's not doesn't have like a tremendously high hit rate. And so everybody goes into it clear-eyed, knowing that like we're all gonna come in in the morning and say some things that just don't like that that land with a thud that don't connect, uh, um, and that like that he doesn't laugh at or that the room doesn't laugh at. Right.

SPEAKER_06 34:00

But you grab the top ten of the funniest, and that's the numbers game. I almost feel like improv taught me the art of the numbers game because that is what idea generation is, is just coming up with so many ideas, and then it doesn't like you almost it becomes such a muscle as someone who pitches creative ideas, like you almost get to the point. Improv to me was so helpful because you're not precious. So if something doesn't work, you're like, well, I had to come up with a new, there's gonna be another scene coming in a second anyway. Like I can't sit here and hang on this anyway. So great, I've got another joke. Steve just did gave me something else. I'm gonna do something new now. So that's been great. That I feel like improv was so good at making me not. I once talked to a book agent. I had done the dick running thing, I was trying to make it into a book, and I was talking to someone and she kind of like gave me feedback, and I was like, oh yeah, it's fine. And I remember her saying, I love talking to people who've done improv and work in these kind of creative fields because a lot of people who write novels have written the novel, and if you try to change anything, it's like, no, that was my writing. And if you've ever done improv, you're like, Oh yeah, that scene failed. Uh yeah, I'm used to the scene failing. Let me try a new scene, let me try a new thing. Let's just jump on the street. Nothing's precious.

SPEAKER_07 35:15

But no, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

But what I'd say though to that is like, I feel like on from an improv perspective, you you're doing your best to make it work in the moment, right? And you have a group, uh, you know, a scene partner, at the very least, or plural, who are helping you out, right? They're like lifting you up, they're trying to make it work, they're they're yes handing you to to get your thing to its best place, right? And is that I I guess I could see that working. I just have such little experience sort of in our in our creative room pitching. I'm curious if that's also the case where it's like you have someone, is it sometimes like, oh well, maybe not that, but maybe it's this, and people are kind of lifting and ripping.

SPEAKER_04 35:54

It's part of the process. Like it's I just glued my fingers together and they're hot. They're getting very hot and painful.

SPEAKER_06 36:01

I am convinced that super glue exists only to glue parts of your body to other parts of your body. I've never successfully glued something that I needed. Right.

SPEAKER_04 36:13

I didn't touch the super glue. Well, this is why I shouldn't have. Yeah, well, uh improv is useful as um, there is like a, you know, you just you need to like have a sort of yes and phase of your of your process where you're like, Right, yeah, let's let's entertain this idea for a minute, see where it takes us. And then if it's not fruitful, I mean that's that's the thing about having a 530 deadline, is you can't just yeah, that well, that's my favorite part of it. And that's I think one of the big differences between like doing a book or a screenplay, and that's what terri one of the things that terrifies me now about the next phase of whatever it might be, is that and I think one of the things that makes me sad about the extent to which it seems like we're losing the late night tradition is that like kind of inherent disposability that I love about working at Second City and I love about working at late night, where it's like, you know, you can you care about the thing, you work on it all day, but then at the end of the day, you sort of you do it, and it either goes well or it doesn't, or something in between, and you live to fight the next day. Like you sort of almost like flush or erase it. It's like building sand castles, it's like nothing lasts. It's you know, as Jon Stewart says about late nights, like we're making the egg salad. It's like we we made it on Monday and nobody wants nobody wants these jokes by Wednesday, you know. So it's like it's inherently disposable and so that I think help that helps it like I think approaching it with a like you're just throwing things out all the time with an awareness of how disposable it is, and that helps you feel not too precious about anything. It's not like you're coming in every morning and being like, this is my idea for the great American novel. And if you say no to it, then my life's work I'm done, yeah, is done. There's just like this is what I thought would be funny to say about Donald Trump's press conference yesterday. Right. Take it or leave it, you know, and then and then somebody else could be like, well, actually, I sort of like that. I I like that, you know, something we say a lot in those writers' rooms is like, I like that area, like I like that that that that joke maybe doesn't, but like I really like that area of comparing it to a stressed-out mom in the supermarket or something. Like a lot of these jokes are like analogies, you know, and then it's like let's let's change that detail or let's, you know. So that's fun, and that's where it gets really collaborative because you can come in and you can work on a joke, and and then somebody can be like, cool, I like that. I'm gonna change the specific.

SPEAKER_06 38:42

Yeah, let me let's make it better.

SPEAKER_04 38:44

And so that's when sometimes, you know, that's when it really feels like a room when somebody will be like, Hey, did you write that joke, or who wrote this joke? The best ones are the ones where you're like, I mean, sometimes it's fun to be like eight of us, yeah, genius like brought it in and it was perfect as is, but that's obviously more more rare. It's like it's really fun when it's like who who wrote that joke? It's like, well, the room wrote it. Like, you know, Kate came in with this concept, and then Eliana changed the specific, and then Ashler, you know, put a tag on it, and like Asher always does so good.

SPEAKER_06 39:16

I love when Kate brings something in that's not specific. And Eliana, when she changed it up, those twists she brings. May I ask what okay, I uh do want to talk about the future of late night because I think it's really interesting, as I've mentioned, that we are doing a talk show as we speak, talking about the end of talk shows, but then it's you all you have this is one of those jobs where everyone's like, everyone wants to write for a TV show, and so when it ends, there's something kind of sad about it ending, but then you also remember you all are people who are employed by a network and the network ended the show. What are other people from the show gonna go do right now? Does anyone have any clue about like it's the end of a TV show, but these are people's lives and careers. Like, what are other writers doing? Like, does is it just kind of like, I don't know, is everyone figuring out?

SPEAKER_04 40:05

I think everyone's kind of taking stock and figuring out. You know, I think there's a lot of different super everybody in our room, I uh, you know, I think think is super talented, but but there just aren't a lot of I think 10, 15 years ago you would have said, like, oh, these are talented people who wrote for a successful show and they can probably just go and take that resume and go to another show.

SPEAKER_06 40:28

Hold the Emmy up. Didn't you win an Emmy? How many Emmys do you have? Hold your Emmy up and walk around in New York City.

SPEAKER_03 40:36

Touch your subject. Go call John Oliver about that, you know?

SPEAKER_04 40:39

Yeah, John the John Oliver writers always win all the all the Emmys, but we get with had some good nominations. Um, but the show, the show overall has won Emmys and stuff. You know, that it's I I I think that because there are just fewer of these shows, and and as you say, like a lot of people want to work for them. It's not like uh now with this show ending, everybody's like, well, let me figure out where there's an opening. Just there isn't uh there's not a lot of that. So I don't know. In the immediate future, I don't I don't I don't know what happens. I mean it's creative people that will find oddly, I'm sure the others would say this too. I'm not worried about any of them. I'm worried about me. I'm the one that I have that I have the least confidence in.

SPEAKER_06 41:23

I could give a shit what they're doing. But no, it's not that I don't give a shit.

SPEAKER_04 41:27

I I think they're all just gonna be great. I just don't know if they're gonna be. They're gonna land on their feet. I'm the one. Here's the thing, and I'm sure they would all say the same thing. I'm the one who's a fraud. The imposter syndrome. The imposter syndrome.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

I was gonna say that about you, Steve, but I wanted to wait until you said it first.

SPEAKER_03 41:42

You know?

SPEAKER_04 41:43

I'm the one who wakes up at night and realizes I never deserve to be there in the first place. So I'm the one who's never employable again. But they're all crazy.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Isn't that crazy that that's like so like I would venture to say the vast majority of successful people in in high sort of positions like who feel like they're just faking it and like failed up somehow.

SPEAKER_06 42:04

Yeah, and like someone's gonna discover that every time I get anything in my life, I'm like, fuck, how did I mean now I have to convince people I deserved this thing. Which is But that's not to bring it back to this asshole.

SPEAKER_04 42:15

That's the heart of Donald Trump's psychopathy because Totally. He's having the confidence with no reason. I alone can fix it, I can do it, I can do anything. Right. And sane people have like a healthy amount of self-doubt. And all the most talented people that I know are are, you know, are plagued by it, and that's actually a mark of um, you know, a mark of like sanity. Sanity, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 42:45

It's truly why I think I'm feeling more and more like I like politicians who were bartenders, because I'm like, career politicians at this point are insane. Like I want someone who took the bus. I don't, I almost don't want normal people when they talk about politics sound rational. And I'm like, well, we sh then you should be the one making the decisions. And instead, it's like someone who thinks diet coke causes cancer, and you're like Well, and also it's people who the one one thing cures cancer. Sorry, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

We've lost. Um, there's so many things that the founding fathers would be appalled, but what one one that that I think people it was a norm is that you never promoted yourself for office at the beginning of this country. You always were drafted into it, right? Nobody the idea of campaigning for the presidency was considered beneath the dignity of the office, right? So, like coming out and saying like I should be president, that that people would be like, Well, you're psychopathy to begin with. Same with exactly. And so you have now that's not to say, I mean, I think historians would correct what would correctly say people found their way around it. Like Thomas Jefferson and John Adams weren't publicly campaigning and advocating for themselves, but they both owned newspapers that. would like attack the other one and promote the you know like they were I'm sure very ambitious behind the scenes was the mud slinging was always a thing right yeah yeah the name called I don't think Adam zoned slaves but yeah but like the uh yes all that right like and they would they would have proxies like campaign for them at yeah but I just do think even just paying lip service to the idea that we don't self-promote like I would love to go back to that because nobody even I was saying this the the other day like I feel like Barack Obama is someone I admire enormously is like close to being somebody who's like maybe like the best we could possibly get in in terms of somebody who but every once in a while you hear his like ego where he's just like yeah I figured I could do it and you're like well you have a touch of this yeah thing that like that should actually be disqualifying which is with the quality say like I think I can do it. It should be the people all around you are like this guy has to do it. But that totally that that's the the humility piece that the campaign won't allow for now is that would what I would love to hear somebody in a debate when they're like how are you gonna solve this problem and they'd be like man I don't know it's super daunting. I'm gonna like I think I'm not sure hopefully I've got a good team around me like I'm gonna but that to be would read I think to too much of America that would read like it's like you don't even think you can do it. But like that's what we need I think.

SPEAKER_06 45:32

It is funny when I'm looking for confidence I do often this is it sounds like a joke and it is a little bit but I often look I think of who is the most competent inappropriately confident man I know do what he does in his head and like there have been times where I'm like it really does work. Like imagine you have the confidence of one of the dumbest men you know of that ilk who believes themselves to be fantastic and like if you can kind of do that you all of a sudden are like oh wow the it's fascinating because I feel like we are starting to see Zoran do such wonderful stuff and be such an honest human person and it is just fucking tragedy. Actually the Republicans I think everyone should be counting their lucky stars he wasn't born in the United States. Yeah I think they should be counting their lucky stars. Democrats at this point I'm I'm a socialist full blown like I'm like they should be so grateful that that charismatic dude who's just single handedly like showing everyone that you can do whatever you want day one I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 46:41

Well and also he on day one was like I'm gonna make a lot of mistakes like he he has a humility to him he's got he's got swagger but he also has a humility to him that's really refreshing.

SPEAKER_06 46:51

Which is what you were just saying like oh I'm not gonna be perfect. I'm a human. This is exactly I think when it comes to like talking about like the end of Colbert and stuff like that, I think where I get fascinated is I used to kind of have this take and I'm not entirely sure. When SNL started excuse me it was insane to think about doing a TV show in one week. Yeah and now you were working on a a TV show that had to be produced every single day and and beyond that now people are doing essentially TV show podcasts by themselves with their computer and they don't have a team of writers in a studio behind them and costume designers. It to some degree what SNL has is now considered in my mind a massive luxury and not a daunting thing ahead of them. They have a week the best writers they have costume designers like you know they have production they have all they have 200 of the best minds putting together a TV show and it's interesting because now that's almost like well that's a that's a that's a an embarrassment of riches these days when it almost feels like so it's interesting because we talk about the Colbert writers and stuff like that and I think to myself you and five other people right now could go start your own Colbert and you don't need CBS to do it. So I think it's kind of interesting because we're watching and whether or not that's actually true taking some liberties obviously you're not gonna do the exact same thing but it's interesting because we're seeing late night fold and it feels like the president is attacking the First Amendment AI is coming for jobs.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

Hollywood tobes it sounds like Hollywood has completely left Hollywood Hollywood is is uh collapsing in on itself is it is that like boots on the ground is it just feels as boots on the ground yeah it feels dire you know does it absolutely you know the the industry contraction starts starts with it starts with COVID goes to the wet writer strike streamers take advantage of the writer strike and decide they're not going to be producing you know they're not that there was you know the the MO for the streaming wars was just who can produce the most content right and right there was just tons of content being produced that no one watching which is all the reason why these days you mean you remember when Lost was out and you everyone would be like oh just you know we're all talking it's like water cooler stuff like everyone see the same episode we're watching it's talk about it with your coworkers yeah you're talking about the same time the smoke monster you know the end days soprano so like peak TV you know peak tv sort of climaxes at 20 the streamers are trying to are competing generate tons of content and why it's it it we've sort of landed in the place where it's the conversation now is like oh what are you watching I'm watching this never heard of it oh it's the best show every never heard of watch it what's it on I don't know it's on this I'm watching this oh my god or or oddly people are going back and watching like vampire diaries again for the third time you know what I mean or yeah remember when Suits was like the number one show and like it hadn't been on in 15 years. Yeah and it got number one on Netflix yeah and so the what happened was sort of put like the I think the writer strike gave the as it does the studios the opportunity to sort of look at strategy and like what they're doing. They're like all right we're gonna pull back on this and you know I I don't know about you guys but I definitely of the writers that I knew like going into the strike they had four or five projects going and coming out they were lucky if they had one you know yeah actors with auditions too I've heard like I mean across the board one audition a month. Yeah so like I mean the crew is huge. Like there's so many shows being produced and now it's not and then add into that LA being behind in California in general on tax incentives and other states and countries sort of getting a head start on that Atlanta sort of the classic although Atlanta now is is now contracting in New Mexico. So it it's it's all been this perfect storm where it feels now that no one's working you know and and and add to it the the consolidation of these studios where they're having to sort of reduce you know head count because of redundancy. So that's why you for the most part you'll see these letters about a lot of a lot of art forward folks being against the Paramount merger, right? Like Netflix was one thing but they liked it more than they liked Paramount because there's too much redundancy with Paramount and Warner Brothers. So in terms of head count so a lot of the people who have sort of salaried positions at these studios are more concerned because Netflix didn't have the infrastructure that Warner Brothers had but Paramount does or did on a different scale right so so it it's and it's you know like it's that plus we are now I think have crossed the threshold where you know the majority of people are watching getting their content from their devices right so if you're not producing content for this it's like what are you doing? And that goes to your point of like the the thing that that we started off on for Colbert which is you know the studio is like well this is a you know we're operating at a deficit here and we can't we can't afford this show anymore. That was sort of their reasoning right and on one hand you could that's defensible which is why they made that argument and for a show that you made the point like oh like the the staff I think was totaled at like 250 or whatever it was Steve you know and like you being like oh like you can go and do sort of this and like get the same amount of eyeballs with five people and to a degree that's you know there's some truth to that but the challenge I'd say and and like the what we're seeing is you know this idea of like oh like podcasts or new daytime talk right like that's why everyone has a podcast and like why Netflix now is like competing for the podcast market against YouTube because they're trying to tap into the daytime market. And why Oprah just did a huge deal with Netflix for all of their back catalog her back catalog she's still a she I think and so it's it's uh for now I mean my God the way things are going. So point being though is like there is this massive shift however the way I've always seen I'm like so we're back to like the the the mod that we've almost come back full circle from like on the you know when we had we were forced to watch advertising for free. You know what I mean? And that's how we got our content. And now oh no now we're paying for subscription but now I think we're like paying for subscriptions and getting fed ads if you're not on like the premium premium. You know what I mean? But my my point is like that model works. We're all kind of happy with that like oh I'll take my content for free and you can sell me your shit and I'll take that time to go get like a snack in the kitchen and then my family's gonna yell oh like it's back. You know and you run back. Yeah and I think we're we're we're coming back to that in a in a lot of ways but we have this added element of all like to talk about sort of podcasts and video podcasts and like that being on-demand content that you can just tap into at any moment but you're still being served ads on there right and like that yeah that is now the monitor that's that is the model now they they they've discovered sadly for the folks who are like really big WNYC fans and like Radio Lab with like these excellent sort of public radio limited narrative series that were like expertly produced at such a high cost that they couldn't afford it. They're like we can't afford these shows there's and people are up in arms right it's like how are they canceling these shows they're so good it's like well no one's listening to them that's why what what's the best model smartless it's this basically right oh just there's no overhead just talent fees it's talent fees and that's basically it you know yeah there's there's of course there's producers but it truly is like you said it's like well it's like five people you could have the show could have one producer you've got a talent book right at that at that scale now it's like scaled up obviously but it is you know crazy.

SPEAKER_06 54:53

No because one on one hand you go wait so now late night's ending is that what's happening? Are we watching late night end? Like that's so crazy and tragic and on the other hand I lived in Los Angeles and wrote screenplay after screenplay or you know whatever I was writing spec scripts and to try to get someone to read a 50 page script like that's work. Like some people can't even open the email because they have an agent and that's going to be a problem and you start to go I at some point I started making content because I was like I can't get people to read the thing I wrote so I might as well go make the damn thing. And you start to go well on the other hand I don't need CBS or Netflix need anyone to read the thing I can go make it because if you have a phone you have a production studio. So on one hand I feel like I hate that Hollywood's ending and on the other hand I feel a little bit like it's no longer it's a little bit more of a meritocracy now because I don't have to go to synagogues to break into some something something you know like yeah I feel like yeah that question of like how do you break in I think you you you your numbers are still the same right took that took the head off of an animal unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03 56:04

No he was so excited by the tampon. What oh come on he has a helper he's got a little sweatshop over there working on working for him but like because the point is like when you have a very low barrier of entry which is what you're describing right anyone can do it all of a sudden the market gets saturated. So then the question becomes around discovery and like how do you how do you so when we're like developing a new pod you could have a great idea but the question becomes well who's gonna listen to this and how are how are you going to make sure they're listening to if this podcast costs five hundred thousand dollars to produce or two hundred and fifty thousand for 52 episodes 26 episodes how do you ensure someone's gonna listen to that's the challenge well because people aren't listening aren't people just watching the clips of the podcasts are they even listening to the whole podcast but and the thing is you can't monetize the clips don't monetize as well as the long form. So you want to drive them to the long form. So that's but then you have an Amy Poehr who will just pop in and like that show is it's a great show. It's expertly produced but and like has an excellent host you know like it's all it all lined up but that like skyrockets. Yeah and that but like there's plenty of podcasts with famous guests that is not are not performing well you know what I mean have even heard that Oprah's is not performing but I don't know. Yeah so it I I it's just it it it's a challenge but and I'd say like on the optimistic side like we're this is in early June and like look at the top movies at the box office. You're looking at obsession and backrooms you know these are movies that were produced for 20 year olds on one movie was produced for under a million dollars and you know I mean it's like and that's original Beat Star Wars Beat Star Wars.

SPEAKER_04 57:45

Which as speaking of saturation yeah like someone was like Grogu and I was like wasn't he the wide receiver wasn't he the running back for the Patriots and they were like that's Gronk and I was like oh this is tight end yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I just kind of like we seem to be reverse engineering back our way into the whole thing with streaming was like it you you have the power of choice and you're like you have infinite you can be so deliberate about what you're watching. Like I can remember in the 80s and 90s I would watch my I see my dad watch TV in the evening and he was so at the mercy of the 30 channels. Yeah and there's something about that that I think is actually appealing and people are rediscovering that. Yeah like and I'm I'm in a unique position with it right now because my TV watching such as it was like I had some shows that I stream or whatever but I I I didn't make a lot of time when I was working full time at the late show my sort of rule for myself is if I have 15 minutes here or there to literally just like turn on the TV and watch television it's always going to be CNN MSNBC or Fox News in order to inform so sorry. I'm so sorry I know no no yeah no for my job because I want to know what they're saying because and and that would happen a lot like I'd I'd I'd be you know like microwave something for dinner and watch 15 minutes of Fox News and honestly like it would help me so much for my pitches in the morning because I would come in and I'd be like here's what they're saying you know like here's the way they're spinning this and and so like and then you know like CNN more for the not that they're perfect but but more for the like what's actually going on you know yeah especially with breaking news like I think CNN is is still quite quite good for breaking news to be like what what is actually happening. So anyway so I I was watching like pretty much only cable news and then I as the show started to wind down I was like oh this is an interesting opportunity to completely start from the ground up of any television habit that I might have which again is not is not a lot like and and I do like you know Kate and I will pick some streaming show that we're gonna watch you know like task or something that's like prestige TV and we're gonna watch together cheated rivalry. Cheated rivalry but like there is that part of television that is the gest like for me it's you it's a lot like when I'm eating like if I haven't eaten dinner and I come home and I'm like making a quick meal and I'm gonna watch 20 minutes of TV and I'm just gonna watch whatever's on. And that used to be only cable news and in the last few weeks that's one of the new things about my life is like I'm just flipping around and I'm not being picky at all. And it's really fun to just like watch whatever's on. And a lot of the streamers too like I've noticed that you know it's one thing for me like some of my favorite TV shows where I'm like should I go back and like binge rewatch like Star Trek the next generation or something.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:47

Oh good call.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:49

And then but but on Paramount Plus not to shill for Paranout because they're not my favorite people available now 1999 hold on guys but 1999 plus click this link there's like a thing you can go to that is like just a Star Trek channel. And so it's like basically you can watch whatever random episode is on. Or Disney Plus has the like the Simpsons 24 hours. Yeah and it's just a random episode and there's something to me I'm like oh that makes me feel more like TV was in the 90s where you're like you're turning it on and you're like oh this episode and you're participating in something that's I that's coming in from the world versus this like insular feeling of I've just picked this thing that's like in a bubble. I like the randomness too like sometimes randomness is great and great you could literally like I could text you and be like turn on Disney Plus the this episode of this this the this old episode of the Simpsons that we like is on. Right, right. Whereas even though we have the power to like call up that episode at any time the idea of somebody serving it to you is kind of nice.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:53

I think so I also feel like we're going and I say this partly as we do arts and crafts but like I also feel like we're trying to go back to like a slightly more analog place. Like I liked when a phone I had an iPod, a camera and a phone like now I have all three together and so sometimes if I want to leave my phone at home but I want to take a camera I like landlines and I would like to go back to a world where like I don't know who's calling I don't know like just call me I don't I don't want to plot and plan everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:21

Like I'd like to turn on the TV and see what someone else picked for me to watch like there's something kind of wonderful about Jesus take the wheel I want more of that in my life I think and less of I think especially like in in your middle in your in our mid 40s as we are just like the cognitive labor that's happening you want that unplug of not having to deal with the paradox of choice you know you used to be just limited to the choice over it used to be limited to the the video the VHS store where you just would be wandering the out now it's just anytime you sit down. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:53

But yeah the Netflix thing of being like oh and then I'm overwhelmed by the choice and what I do before bed so many people are saying like I spend 40 minutes trying to decide what to stream and then just going to sleep. Yeah whereas like the the analog TV of it of just being like well this this episode of Fraser is on. Is it my favorite one? Is it even my favorite show no but that's kind of what I'm watching right now. And then I think that's also how you end up seeing I think as a comedian like SNL is a good example like SNL was a show that was all about making fun of television. It was comedians who watched TV and they were like oh my god these commercials are so silly these soap operas are so silly it's uh basically taking every television genre and using a television show to make fun of that and if you're only watching TV that you that you love then you like you lose the ability to see the so like sometimes that's what I'm realizing now as I just flip around is that sometimes I'm like just linger on something that is not what you would choose because it it's it's choice is hurting using part of your choice is hurting us because we're only like I'm only reading and this this is a different philosophy for reading but like because reading is a little bit more labor intensive and takes more time I only read books that I'm pretty darn sure are going to be good.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:14

What president are you on?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:16

Well I was reading biographies of all the presidents but I kind of started hopping around. I made it through Lakin and then then I started hopping around to to to Goodwoods. But I I will go back and do Johnson or like interesting ones.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:28

You didn't do like which like there's no like Taft or Woodrow Wilson that's didn't get there.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:33

Nobody I sort of to your point though Steve which is to say you chose to skip the ones you think you wouldn't like right and honestly like some of the ones that were the most interesting especially in those first 16 were ones that I was like I don't know the first damn thing about this about Zachary Taylor. But like then then you're filling in your blind spots about American history and like yeah sometimes just having stuff totally that you I don't even think it's cheese.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:00

Not that and I actually as an adult right now like it's interesting because I'm starting to learn that so much good stuff comes from doing things you don't want to do because even just having that experience and it's I I it's not even that interesting of a thought per se but like I used to be like our phones keep us from ever being bored and the best coolest weirdest stupidest things my brain has ever come up with is from boredom.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:24

No everything is designed to everything is designed to eliminate friction in your life right and friction is what causes does the speaking of podcasts heat yeah there's this ad that's everywhere now I see it on the train like it's I I don't know I think it's for something called rinse and it is also in my podcast ear and the the premise of it is it's a laundry service. And it's like but the the ad copy is like you know there are so many repetitive tasks in life it's for lawn it's a laundry service and it's like take laundry off your plate. Don't have to do laundry anymore. And I'm like, I don't know. I think having to do laundry a couple times a week is like kind of a gift.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:11

I don't want that taken off my plate. Even though it's annoying. I mean, I know it's annoying, but it's also that's also, by the way, when I listen to podcasts. So it's funny, there's something about something funny to me about a podcast ad being like, here's a way to stop doing laundry. I'm like, I got news for you, podcast. If I stop doing laundry, I finally stop doing the new craft.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:32

Please join us now for the Snarks and Crafts presentation of the art. I think I have. I'm ready to do that. I would like to find out. I think it's time to actually, why don't we have our art show and find out how we fared with our tampon animals?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:46

Or if you have three items and they're all connected in the ecosystem. I also have three items.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:51

I'm gonna go first. I did a chrysalis.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:55

Ooh. Well, okay. And then you brought it. Where'd you get that tree branch though? That's a little bit more.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:00

I got it outside in my in the yard. This was just it's a locally sourced tree branch. Well, bring it in. I did a chrysalis and then if you can see, this little tampon has three legs and a head, and then look, it has two little eyes. It has two little eyes, and then feathers for the wings, and I'm calling it that time of the moth.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

You did a name, shoot.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:23

Come on. Well done. Come on. Thank you. That's an A. That's a strong A.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:28

Do you think I could write for Colbert? If you have any takes on what he's doing, if you see him, tell him.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:34

I'm gonna toss it now. I think I'm gonna toss it to Steve. Okay, which I think some sea otters.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:40

Yeah, well, I think I I already showed this guy. This was like right out the bat. It's probably my best. This is an otter. He he doesn't have a lot of limbs, really. But he kind of tucked him. An otter that made her piss herself.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:58

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:00

Yeah. So he could also be a caterpillar, I guess, because he doesn't have truly.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:06

Yeah. It looks a little bit like a little a really adorable poop.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:10

A turd with eyes, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:11

Yeah, but I'm I've never found turds to be that adorable.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:14

So it's got super blue eyes.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:16

Are you just doing one sneak?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:18

Okay, what, Toby, would you like to show? Okay, now your turn, Toby.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:22

I'm really brainstorming for an idea and I don't have one. I created a spider and this. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:28

Wow. What? Woo! And he's catching a flu. That was happening. Well, so he's got the so many eyes.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:36

He's got the god. Wait, but look at this guy. Is that a chip one? Oh, those are eggs? No, that's a fly. Shh. Shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:44

And he had and he ate it one already. He ate one already. But then I did a too late coming out.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:48

Wait, wait, wait, wait. My god.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:49

This is I realized I realized too late that this web actually comes out of their butt. So this is not biological.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:56

This is so down to the number of eyes you put on that spider. You did the okay, so we there's an entire web, a spider, and hanging from the spider is a tampon. This is it's an insect that it's about to devour.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:11

Yeah, that's right. This insect is not lasting much longer. I don't have a good name. I'm open, I'm open to suggestions for titles for this art piece.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:21

Damn. I'm truly flabbergasted.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:24

I've also cleaned completely cleaned up my workstation. Wow. I have not.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:28

I now have someone in my workstation making more mess. Oh that's good. What do you think?

SPEAKER_06 1:09:33

You can be there if you want to present your other two. Hi, Thomas. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:37

This is inspired by Thomas because Thomas is a real Thomas loves sheep. So this I think is a sheep with a yellow head.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:43

Oh, that's fantastic. Wonderful. Yeah. That could be the U by Cotex. That could be the U by Cotex. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:50

And then I have one more, but you guys can go.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:51

No, I'm done. I did that. Mine was all big.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:53

Oh, the yours was all big things. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:55

I've already done, yeah, I think I did all of them.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:57

I think mine, um, this also, this last one. Remember, I spent a lot of my time getting super glue off my hands. Don't ever open this. We're gonna throw this away, right? It's just it's just all that this guy, I think, is like a little, he might be like some kind of snake or an alien worm or something like that. That's like a little eyeball.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:14

That's like an easy. Yeah. You know what happened there? You know what that is? That's that's like a chrysalis in Chernobyl. It like it's like trying to go, but it's it's just an eyeball.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:26

We know what we can do, actually. I do. Why are we putting tampons in animals?

SPEAKER_07 1:10:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:33

Claire? Because if we don't do that, then we could murder someone with our hands because we're so angry about what's happening in the world. So instead, we're gonna make art and not kill people because we're too cute for jail. And since we only have one minute left, my final question Did you have fun today?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:52

So much. Unquestionably.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:55

Then my work here is done.