All Within
There are healers, guides, and practitioners doing extraordinary work behind the scenes, and most people never get to hear them talk about it. Host Dawn Elle Davis changes that. Each episode is an intimate, unfiltered conversation with someone whose work and wisdom might just shift something in you. Their stories, their modalities, the moments that changed everything, and one small nugget you can carry with you on your own healing journey. No jargon or gatekeeping, just the kind of talk that shifts something and makes you see yourself differently.
All Within
Invaded And Violated Are Not The Same Thing
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A doctor once told a client to hope for an early death before he had to face another decade of pain. Forty years and one very different kind of bodywork later, that man is seventy and hasn't had a flare in over a year.
Rhiannon Flores Drennen works with people whose chronic pain, sexual trauma, and pelvic pain haven't responded to the usual rounds of doctors, PTs, and acupuncturists. Her method, somatic shadow work, treats the body as a kind of unconscious mind, one that holds onto old identities, old fears, and old stories long after the thinking brain has moved on. In this conversation, she and Dawn get into what it actually looks like to find those stuck places and let them go, including a client who went from sobbing to laughing about her own trauma in twenty minutes, and the difference between being invaded and being violated, a distinction Rhiannon says changes everything.
This episode is educational, not medical advice. If you're dealing with chronic pain or trauma symptoms, please work with a licensed provider alongside anything you hear here.
You'll walk away with:
– Why "compensation patterns" might be the real reason an old injury never fully healed
– The identity question Rhiannon asks every new client, and why it matters more than the physical complaint
– What it actually means to feel a feeling instead of just naming it
– Why some traumatic events leave almost no mark, and others reshape a whole nervous system
Rhiannon Flores Drennen reminds your bodymind how to resolve chronic pain and sexual trauma. Using gentle deep tissue techniques, ancient therapies, and profound energy work, she has supported hundreds of clients' healing in her decade of practice. Her unique science-mixed magick approach has opened new doors even for clients who believed they'd already tried everything. Rhiannon knows that pain and trauma are not the point of you. At Philosopher's Stone Bodywork Therapies, embody that knowing and expand into more freedom, love, yay and yum!
https://www.sacralsacred.com
https://www.facebook.com/PhilosophersStoneBodywork/
The All Within podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. The conversations, stories, and modalities shared by our guests are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any condition, and should not be taken as medical or therapeutic advice.
Always consult a qualified healthcare professional before making changes to your health or wellness routine. The views expressed are those of the individual guests and do not represent All Within or its founders.
Website: https://www.allwithin.com
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About Dawn Elle Davis:
Dawn Elle Davis is a channel, healer, oracle, and transformational mentor with nearly 25 years of experience helping people come home to themselves. She is the co-founder of All Within and the creator of Eternal Self Embodiment™ — a methodology that goes beyond the mind to unlock the deepest layers of who you really are. Dawn is devoted to demystifying the world of healing and making it accessible, real, and deeply human.
https://www.instagram.com/dawnelledavis?igsh=ZDJtNjBidHF4cXdj&utm_source=qr
What "compensation" really means in the body
What if healing looked nothing like you were taught? Welcome to
The client whose doctor told him to hope for an early death
All Within. I'm Dawn Elle Davis, and every episode I'm sitting down with the healers,
Why the body might be holding onto an old identity
the seekers, and the ones who found their way back to wholeness through roads you might not expect.
The line between knowing your story and actually feeling it
Their stories, their modalities, and their hard-won wisdom. This is where healing gets real. Let's begin.
What a somatic shadow work session actually looks like
Hello. We have Rhiannon Flores Drennen today, and I would love for you to share with our guest what you do and just
The client who went from sobbing to laughing in twenty minutes
what you're all about. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, Dawn. I'm really excited to be
Invaded versus violated, and why the difference matters
here. And so my practice is all about supporting people through chronic pain
Her own story: the word she couldn't say out loud until 27
and chronic trauma symptoms so that way they can invite in more freedom, love, yay, and yum, all the good, yummy things in life,
Where to find her and what she sees coming next for healing
and expand to create more capacity for those things in their life. 'Cause, you know, we, we get... When we're in pain, when we are stuck in trauma loops, it's like everything is so compressed, and it just feels like we're stuck, and that's not all of life. That is not what we're really meant to be doing. And so my work is just to open up people to find those pathways out of those cycles. I love that because it's so true. Being in pain is the worst. There was a time a couple summers ago that I had a bad, like, back issue, and it was going into my arm, and there was, like, some nerve stuff happening, and I went from living life full on, it felt like, to just this kind of small scope of being able to just get through my day. Like, everything extra had to go to the wayside. And so I know what you're talking about 'cause when people are in pain, it's, not only is it uncomfortable, but we just can't do everything that we normally do. So what are the ways that you specifically start to help people get out of pain and into this yay and yum life that you described? I tend to attract people who are experiencing chronic low back pain, chronic pelvic pain, sexual pain, and I deal with a lot of sexual trauma. So the way that I help people is what I've come to call somatic shadow work or somatic shadow therapy, and it is a combination of body work and- Somatically integrated shadow work and energy work that is really just designed to find those root issues that are creating the compensations that the body has to work around. 'Cause when we have an energetic injury or an energetic hiccup or just something that we haven't completed the process of- Mm-hmm our bodies have to compensate for that just as they would any physical injury or, you know, walking through a room with too little space. You have to contort in, like, weird ways, right? Mm-hmm. So it's all about finding what is the thing around which we're contorting ourselves, and then unwinding that knot and undoing that loop. Okay, so you use the word compensations. Mm-hmm. What does that mean so our listeners understand? 'Cause I feel like I know what it means or have an idea, but I wanna hear from you- 'cause I think it's, important for them to know. Of course. We always have our own understandings, and getting those, making sure we're all on the same page is such an important part of actually the work in general as well as just life and understanding. but so what I talk about when I say compensations, I'm talking about the way our body minds allocate our resources to keep us moving and upright and doing the things that we want to be doing. And sometimes those- Resources, they get allocated, and we don't even notice. So that's like the habitual postural stuff that we've got going on. And we can exist in that state for years, but then there can be just that tipping point or, the straw that was just too much for the camel, and all of a sudden those compensation patterns, that way of allocating resources, it reaches its end, and it's no longer sustainable. That's when we experience pain. That's when we go into states of trauma because no longer can we just shuffle, we'll just add a little bit of load over here to this shoulder, or we'll just put this emotion into the back of the mind, shove it under that proverbial rug. And when we hit that point where it's like, all right, now we have to do the clean out. That's what I'm talking about when I talk about compensation 'cause it is also really important to remember that we all have compensations. We all have different ways that our bodies juggle how we move that are not necessarily textbook standard. And we don't want to all be that way. because if we had zero compensations, we wouldn't be able to account for gravity. We wouldn't be able to stand in our weird ways that we do. and we really wouldn't be able to function. We would be puddles on the floor. but it, as with all extremes, no compensation versus a highly unsustainable compensation can mean we'd end up as a puddle on the floor anyway. So you're saying that these are ways that we move our bodies in some way through life based on what we've experienced. Exactly. Okay. That's a lovely summary. I love that. And when somebody's experienced a lot of trauma, I'm assuming from, what I've learned, that they are definitely gonna move their bodies or hold their bodies in different ways than they would- have if they hadn't experienced the trauma. Exactly. Okay. And it's, so it's that space where classic examples are, like, slouching or being really curled in around your center. other things that can happen are we hold our bodies really, really rigidly. Hmm. So, when we activate fight or flight, one of the, core compensations that kicks in is that everything tightens up. And so it comes in basically to try and create support where we felt like we had none, right? Mm-hmm. So if we feel like we were, or- Abandoned or had to do everything ourselves as a kid, our low backs and our pelvic floors can tighten up. And, a really easy way to think about this is, experiencing, a big surprise or, a sh- jolt of fear. That big intake of breath that we have. Mm-hmm. Sometimes that can get stuck and held in that pattern, especially if there's an, either an extreme instance or, an ongoing case of abuse or fear or whatever it is. And so that becomes that underlying pattern that- we then have to look at as we want to move forward because that was the initial thing that created the support where we didn't feel like we had it. Yeah. And of course, if your body's going to support that and it's all rigid and tight, like you're d- you know, describing in survival, we don't wanna stay in that. Mm-hmm. And you mentioned low back pain, which I think so many people experience, and you gave an example of... maybe taking on too much as a child. I think that's what you said. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Is that a typical thing that you see with back pain, or is that just one of the many things? So everyone is always their own unique individual, right? Like, and one of the things I really like to remind clients is that there's really no such thing as a hierarchy in the body except for the hierarchy that your body mind decides upon. So there are general patterns, which is why we can understand how different chakra centers work, like what they are in charge of. And so yes, feeling a lack of support is definitely a really big one that we have low back pain around. But then we also have to remember that- We're talking about the end of compensation patterns, right? So, well, you might have started with this one thing. So we might have started with that intake of breath, and so your pelvic floor getting locked in an upward state. And then, that has to bring in how your abdominal muscles respond, which then can pull on your low back. So your low back pain might be three, three down, and what we could actually be looking at is an issue with identity. So one of my favorite case studies, one of my favorite clients, a man came to me, and he had been in pain for over 40 years, because of his job and multiple accidents. And one of his doctors told him very early on that, "You should hope to get hit by a bus before you turn 60 because otherwise you're gonna be basically debilitated, and there's nothing that we can do for you." Oh, my. And I'm like, yeah, it's, it's like, you know, not giving false hope is one thing. Creating noce- no- like, doing a nocebo effect is a totally other thing. And so the underlying issue for him was really it came down to this core identity attachment to his previous profession, and we had to unwind that state for him in order for him to let go of the compensations that basically were built around this identity, basically his body stacking in a way that says, "This is who I am." And when we were able to go, "No, I'm this person now," all of that reorganized, and he has not had pain for over a year and a half. This man is 70 years old, hasn't had any pain since we finished our... It took, like, two and a half months maybe to get there. Wow. And it was phenomenal and astounding. And so it really is about- Especially in these complex cases, looking for understanding and looking for what are the threads, what are we pulling on, what is the underlying issue of this thing? Because absolutely, structure can be a driving force, and if we've been in pain for a long time, and you've probably done something about it. You've seen the PTs, you've seen the doctors, you've seen the massage therapists, you've seen the acupuncturist. You've seen all the things. You've done all the stretches. Yeah. And so the question is really about, okay, well how do we connect now and find out and ask those questions to learn about what's underneath all of that? What are we actually compensating around? Yeah. So couple things that you said are so- Yeah interesting to me. But one- is that his identity, his former identity was stuck in his body. I don't know why that just stands out to me. Because w- when I do identity work with clients, I think people think of it very much as like a mindset issue. Like, oh, the way- Mm-hmm I'm thinking, the way- Yeah I'm presenting in life. This is my identity. This is who I call myself. This was my profession, and they're still kinda holding onto that. Mm-hmm. But what's so interesting is how you're saying the body was holding onto that. Mm-hmm. And I'm just- Yeah I'm curious, like why do you think the body was holding onto that? Was that because it was secure and comfortable, or it was just like he never really thought about letting it go before? Mm-hmm. So this is such a cool thing that I love playing with in my practice. Because, so in simple term, so like the technical term is that the body and the mind are isomorphic and symbiotic. Mm-hmm. So isomorphic meaning that they evolve differently, but they evolved like to essentially functionally look the same. Okay. And neither one nor the other can work without w- without each other, right? So they're- Mm symbiotic. They need each other to function. Mm. 'Cause so like, 'cause you can have a body, right? But if there's no mind, if there's no animating force, if there's no energetic presence, it's just a corpse. Yeah. And the same thing, if you have no body through which the mind is expressing, then it's just an energy. It's just a thought field. It's just a thought form. And there's no, What we would define on like the broadest of general levels agency in the world. Okay. So when we have these conversations around identity, it is so interesting because our tendency is to either go one or the other. And it's always, I have found it is always both. Together. And like this leads back into just our understanding of what identity is in the first place, right? And so I think in the Western thoughts, we go so much to like it's a mindset thing. it's what we're thinking about because we have this tendency to believe that, we have to strip away all of this stuff to create who we are. Like we have to let go of our cultural conditioning, we have to let go of our family conditioning, we have to let go of our past experiences and like dig down to find out what our true self is- Mm-hmm who our true identity is. Mm-hmm. But in Eastern thought- Mm-hmm it's all about the clothes we wear. That's what creates a self because true self is nothing, right? Like it's nirvana, it is, the Tao, it, it's just straight energy. Mm-hmm. And so in the same way I find that it is both because we are nothing, we are assimilated infinity, we are essentially nothing, undifferentiated everything. But in this form we get to choose what that is. So that forming the thought form into a physical form means that our physical form will match the thought form. So going back to those examples of posture, right? Like we have this if we feel, If we feel small, we make ourselves small. If we feel super confident, we are up and we are open, and we match that. So there is this mirror between our belief and our expression. I had a client who struggled greatly with, body dysmorphia. And one of the things that we did, like she came to me with these terrible migraines as well as back pain, and, one of the things we did was as we worked with how she saw herself, We watched her move from this, like, a little bit contorted, a little bit twisted, and just kind of like shrunken and compressed space into this... One of the things she said to me, during one of our last sessions was feel huge." But she said it in not like where she felt like, "I just feel so big," you know? Like that judgment. She's like, "I feel huge. I feel amazing. I feel open." And we just watched all of her hips and her shoulders and her neck all straighten out and open up, and it just did so naturally as she fell into that space. So body and mind, they work together, they go together, and it's all a part of our identity expression. Fascinating. Because I, I do. I, I agree with you that everything... You know, of course it's not just up here in the mind, it has to be in the body, too. But I think when people approach it, it's always like, "Well, I want this new reality," and so... In the future let's just say, "I want this new reality. I wanna be healed," or, "I wanna have the next level of work," or whatever it may be for them. Relationship. Yeah. And so they think about that identity of that future person, and then they start... And I've always... I t- teach them, like start- Yeah to think about the feelings that person would embody. And then start to try and embody some of those things. But here's the catch, right? Is if somebody has a lot of trauma, just saying, "Oh, feel confident, feel-" adventurous. What does that mean? Yeah, they're like, "Adventurous? How can I feel adventurous when my trauma," which is probably a compensation in their body coping mechanism- Yes, exactly tells me otherwise? And so I do really think it's important that people understand that it's not just, "Okay, I'm gonna have new thoughts," it's also- Mm-hmm how can I create space in my body to receive this new identity that's going to live differently within the body? I'm probably not saying it- Yes the best way, but like the body would- No, that's perfect Exactly to that new identity. Mm-hmm. No, that is exactly, exactly, yes. And like one of the... Typically, one of the very first questions that I will ask of my clients is, "Where are you in relation to your body?" 'Cause some people get that immediately. They know exactly what we're talking about. and then there are other people that need a little nudge. So for those people who are listening, what I mean by that is very often we have this language around, like, "Well, I just feel beside myself," or, "I'm just, I'm feeling a little trapped today," or, "I'm all in my head," or, "I'm feeling a little spacey," or, "I'm feeling really fuzzy," or, "I'm feeling really grounded." And so, like, all of these different directional relationships between, in that sense of self, the intangible parts of us, and then our s- physical parts of ourselves. Mm-hmm. And we absolutely can't even begin to tap in and feel the feelings, you know? Or that's, that sounds so simple if you just throw it out there, but even when I first started my own, where it's like, well, but how? It's not like I'm completely numb. I can feel things around me. I know where I am in space. What do you mean feel the... I know when I'm sad, I know when I'm ha- like, I feel what I feel, so what do you mean feel the feelings? Mm. And this is how. It's not just about being able to consciously understand what's feeling, but actually be present with it as it moves through your system. And so if we can't check in, though, where our conscious self is in relation to our vessel and what is ultimately our unconscious mind, then those two things can't ever connect, and then they can't align. So quite literally aligning the mind and the body. So you're saying the body's more- Meta literally to the- unconscious mind. Is that true? And- The, yes, the body is- The body is more essentially the unconscious mind, yes. Yeah. And I think for people to understand what that means, the unconscious mind is the part of us that's been programmed through your childhood and just received all, the directives and information I always think- of it like zero to seven. Like, we receive all this programming, and we're just these sponges that take in all this information. But you, do you have a different way of seeing it? 'Cause I'd love to hear. yeah, so definitely that is part of it. It's all that stuff that teaches, that we learn about how to function in the world. Yeah. That becomes so automatic that it's just like, well, of course this is reality. Mm-hmm. And it also includes everything else. Mm-hmm. We, I, I can't remember the exact measurements, but we are basically intaking like trillions of data bytes, of data every minute. Mm. And so our unconscious body, our unconscious mind is processing all of that. Yep. But your conscious mind is not, figuring out how much insulin needs to be injected, how much potassium you have, how much, you know, that when that boy was mean to you when you were on the playground at age six, how much, you know, that's influencing your relationship right now. Your conscious mind has no correlation to why your mother's refusal to acknowledge that she hurt you is creating heart walls and shoulder pain and all of these other things. So your unconscious mind is literally anything that we are not consciously aware of. It holds all of the information that is us, and that creates our ability to relate to the world. It's immense in- Yes nature. And I remember learning back in the day that our subconscious, unconscious, I don't know if they're the same, but the subconscious mind is like, has like 60,000 thoughts per day, and then our conscious mind- Yeah only has 3,000 thoughts per day. Around that number. Yes. It's- You know, not exact, but around that. And it's like, oh, wait a second. And so where you're going, that's getting my curiosity very piqued right now because you, it sounds like you work with the people... Like you said, they've tried acupuncture, they've gone to the doctor, they've done all these things, and they're like, "I'm still not... It's still not going away." Mm-hmm. And so they come to you, and they're looking for something different, and obviously you are a body worker, so you know how to get it there- get in there and touch the body and do all that stuff, massage. Mm-hmm But I'm just so curious with your experience, how much of this tends to be emotional for people? 'Cause you're saying, like, the memory of mom, for instance. Yeah Like not, you know, validating your hurt feelings, and then h- they're storing it in their shoulders. I don't think most people think one plus one equals two. They're- No they're not even putting together because it's in the unconscious. Yes, yes. So when people come to me, 99.9% of the time there's gonna be emotions attached. one, because I work with chronic pain, and so even if there wasn't anything to start with, you've been in pain for a long time, and you've built identity structures around it. You have built all of these coping mechanisms around it, and so very often we have to address those. And so, I would not ever feel comfortable saying that it is always, always, always- Right going to be something emotional. But if people who are drawn to me, that is likely what's happening because that is something I'm really, really good at. It's something I'm really skilled at working people through, and I have options for using my hands for doing those things to open the structure physically, but I also can do so through movement, through energy, through conversation. And so it's really about finding which door is most open for which client. Because again, there is no such thing as hierarchy in the body except for what hierarchy your body has chosen. And so it's like- Being able to really tap in and listen to and open up that limbic resonance, that ability for one nervous system to be aware of and experience another, which is a skill that I happen to have, be really, really strong in. so that way we can figure out what is the path of least resistance? What is going to open things up in the smoothest, fastest, easiest, most aligned and most supportive way possible? 'Cause we don't, in my philosophy, we don't want to come in and just start, like, basically throwing punches. sometimes in, like, straight up massage, that looks like coming in with an elbow and like, "Get real deep," right? can go as hard as you want." And it's like, we can get deep without having to inflict more pain, because we want to induce safety. We want to create space so that way your own system can look at what's going on and decide, "Is this actually appropriate?" And then reorganize, Well, we're under attack, so let me give up for a little bit, and then we're gonna reinforce that pattern later because clearly I still need it." Yes. Well, it's so interesting when you said the thing about, a massage therapist, going really deep and using the elbow. It, brought me right back to that summer that I began the podcast session with when I was in a lot of pain, and it was so crazy, Rhiannon, because I went to Peru. I was going to Peru to lead a retreat with my, friend Whitney, and our guests were coming a day later. And so we had- a day just to kind of like drop in, and I was a little stressed out, truth be told. It's so funny. She was so petite and small. I did not think she could have the power that she did, but she was like- I told her, I said, "Oh, I'm having some, like, mid-back, upper shoulder issues." And she's like, "I'll get in there for you." Yeah. And she did the deep, and that was what caused me thousands of dollars later. It wasn't her fault. No. But she went in so deep. Yeah. And without the context, I had to understand that I had been harboring some really big emotional stuff in there. Mm-hmm. And that, that... It was almost like throwing, like, lighter fluid on a, a burning fire. It just ex- Yeah exploded. And it took a few days for it to, like, come together and for the pain to really set in. It was really weird how my body did it. It lasted all through the retreat, and the moment the retreat was over, it was like the flare. It was like I felt like I was on f- it was so painful. Yeah. And I remember by the time I got home to Boise after flying back from Peru, I was in full acute pain. Yeah. Which I thought was fascinating that my body was kind enough to wait until I wasn't in the full stuff- of leaving a retreat, okay? But it was interesting to me, 'cause I never had thought that that area in my body, which had always troubled me through workouts, through... I'd seen chiropractors, acupuncturists over the years for that area, and just that one massage, that one going deep, it just took it over into the next level. But to your point, there was a lot of emotional stored trauma. Yeah. And I had to start learning to work through that to get to the other side of it, so I do agree with you that there's... It's not always about, like, how much can you go into the body- and, like, get in there and do it. Yeah. It's like, really, there's other, ways to excavate, and it sounds like you're very adept in doing that. Yeah. And you mentioned earlier this somatic shadow work. Tell me about that, 'cause that sounds like maybe how you're also getting in there and extracting the information. So it, somatic shadow work is a lot of people started asking me, "What are you doing?" Because it's not massage. And I'm like- They're like, "What are you doing?" "Well..." It's a secret. And I, so it took me a while to kind of just basically come up with this name of, I, this is how I work, that combination or that fluidity between structure and energy, and being able to combine the two. And so while I didn't know this while I was developing it, Somatic shadow work can basically be thought of as, as a combination of parts work, of Jungian, active imagination, shadow work, and energy work, but all rooted in the actual physical proprioceptive and interoceptive nature of the body. So instead of all of the stuff remaining in the realm of thought forms, we're creating it in the actual existing sensational forms. Okay. And so it's- Basically a way of creating a conversation between your conscious and your unconscious mind and moving in that Shining light into that shadow space- Mm-hmm to be able to talk to what do we know versus what don't we know, and how do we make connections between those two things? Because one of the other, I tend to attract people who are highly, very heady. They're very intelligent. They can analyze their own emotions like no tomorrow. They have learned all the things about their structure, and they're really into, like, finding the stretches or doing the things. They do all of this stuff to, like, understand what's going on. But they haven't figured out how to touch it. They can think about it, but again, that feeling it, how do we feel it part, how do we make it an actual reality instead of something we just know about? Mm-hmm. And somatic shadow work is that process of creating that conversation where, yes, we can honor the mind story. We can honor those things that we figured out. But We're gonna check in, and does your body agree? Because it might, it might not. We have to ask. Mm-hmm. And learning that new language is something that can take some support because, one, your unconscious doesn't have logic the way that your... in the same way that your conscious mind does. And two, English is not your body's first language, right? Like, it's sensation, it's texture, it's smell, it's taste. It is all your senses. And so learning how to interpret, which is another skill that I'm... I really have dialed in there. I was also an English major in another life, so interpreting symbols and unfolding themes and plots and finding the subtext in stories is something that I have done for a very long time. but figuring out what does it mean that, one of my clients had a sensation where she was like, "It feels like a fuzzy lemon." And, actually a woman today that I worked with, she was like, "It's like flowers surrounded by vines." And so what do these things mean? What do these mean in the context of this? What does that have to do with why my back hurts and why I can't touch my toes or pick up my kids? Like- Mm all, why, why do I have digestive issues? All of these things. Yeah. Did that answer the question? Yeah. Well, I love it because it opens up even more, because I do wanna say, I wanna challenge our listeners, because I bet a lot of our listeners are like the people you've described, that they are a- acutely aware of their story. Mm-hmm. A lot of us, we've done the work, we know the story. It's like, okay- Oh, yeah I was three, my dad left, da, da, da. You know, we have the, the story. And a lot of times, at least in my healing practice too, what I notice is people go to that intellectualized story. They're in their mind. Mm-hmm. They're like, "Well, I think this anxiety is happening because..." And they, like, can trace these things. Yeah. But that's their mind telling them that, 'cause it's kind of like connecting the dots- and it looks like- a pretty little storyline. And what I hear- you saying is that it, that's not always the case. Sometimes it could be, but there's a whole different- level of information that resides in the body, 'cause the body's a portal, and we're going into the body, into the sensational territory of, like, what color is it? What is the texture? What is this? And then deciphering from these images and symbology a different message. Yes. So, or how we're actually experiencing the message, if it is- the same. 'Cause like you said, we have these beautifully crafted stories that we tell ourselves, and it's not even that they're wrong. It's just that as much as we'd love it for thoughts to run lives, they don't. Feelings do. So if we can't tap into, well, okay, yes, this is happening, and this is happening, but what's the actual sensation? What's actually real here? What's actually going on? What really exists for me? Then we're not going to make any progress because instead of listening and understanding and connecting, we're further disengaging, disembodying, and avoiding. So you're helping them create a deeper relationship with their body, and essentially helping them to feel and extract the information through a line of questioning, it sounds like- to get them to receive the information to help their body let go of the pain or unravel something, which is really powerful. I know. And it can happen so fast. Like, So in the cases of chronic pain- just starting to play with that question of where are you in relation to your body, just starting to come back in and fill back out and actually create that presence in self can start to release pain before we even do anything else. 'Cause essentially when we disconnect, we're asking... It's like asking a balloon to float when you've taken all the helium out of it. Your body and your structure has to come in to create the support that would usually be offered by that filling up of yourself. And so you can get a ton of relief just by figuring out where you are in relation to your body, and then inviting yourself to see how much can you experience of yourself all at once, where in your body wants to, oh, a, like really, really, is really inviting to that sense of presence, where kind of pushes back or pushes you out, where is just totally resistant. And then don't force. Yeah. The whole point is not to force yourself into those spaces of resistance, but to just notice them and then start to inquire, okay, well, what's held here? what am I being protected from? What am I protecting others from? what stories live in these tissues that are going to be moving around? What, what doesn't this part of my body think is safe for me to know or safe to me to be with? And- Yeah. And like when we start to really dive into just opening up those little bits, so like one of my clients, she was great. She was such a sweetheart, and, She had come to me with like massive hip pain, with balance issues, low back pain, sexual pain, and she had a history of sexual abuse. And when we started moving into this, like one thing I should note is that I am not a psychologist. So when I work with people, one of the things that oftentimes people find really, really helpful is that I don't require anyone to tell me anything. You don't have to go through and re-talk about and, like detail out all of the awful that was. Just enough to be able to even just answer some yes or no questions so I know we're on the right path. But people tell me as much or as little as they feel comfortable with, and we can work with it. but she, when she was sharing her experience and like, 'cause she was still experiencing the flashbacks and the panic attacks and like just that, pull back from her partner from those experiences, and she started out very distressed, crying, lots of sobbing. We went through a bunch of tissues, and no exaggeration, 20 minutes later as we worked through this, she, her response was to laugh about it as she remembered it and go, "That was silly," and we moved forward. That's impressive. So do you think it was her feeling safe and seeing it in a different light? Or what allowed her to have that reframe or that kind of shift? So one, we tend to run away from feelings and sensations and memories when we don't feel resourced enough to handle them. and sometimes this is true. Like, when stuff happens when we're really little, our nervous systems legitimately can't handle it because we're not old enough. We don't have the tools. And simultaneously, there is nothing that can happen within the vessel that is larger than the vessel. So- I'm so curious- What does that mean? So anything that is, that happens within your body can't overtake your body because otherwise you couldn't feel it. Otherwise you couldn't experience it. So being able to expand around that space and recognize that you're bigger than the event, you're bigger than the thing that happened, and you're also different than when the thing happened. And as we reexamine this, which is highly different than reliving it. Mm-hmm. Feeling it and reliving it are not necessarily the same thing, and being supported to experience that nuance is very important and a thing that will really propel you forward. From this new space, when you're examining it from this new space of this increased capacity, when we've taken a look at what does safety mean to you? Are you here? Do you trust your body enough to hold this stuff? and do you really believe that this is the point of your life? Because that's not the point of you. What happened to you, trauma, people's abuse, no matter how awful it was, that's not the point of you, and remembering it can be as neutral as trying to remember what you had for breakfast two weeks ago. It sounds like they're re- I, I keep hearing the word, in my head, recapitulate. I don't know if that's the right way- Mm to say it, but it's like they're restructuring the way- Yeah they see it. And God, what you just said, I wanna repeat it 'cause it's so important for our listeners when you're saying, this isn't the point of your life So many people get frozen from the trauma, which I understand. Oh, yeah. And then they get, their bodies get smaller, like you said, or, they have their ways of compensating. But to your point, it's not why they're here on this planet. It's not their purpose. It's something that unfortunately happened to them, and it creates sometime this, victim energy where they can stay stuck in it for a really long time. But I love- what you're saying because it's kind of taking away that energy of you don't have to be stuck here. your body's bigger than this. I've never heard it from that terminology. Your body's bigger than this, and your purpose is bigger than this. And I find that wildly supportive for people, 'cause I know you work with people who've gone through sexual trauma, and I think that's one of the most vulnerable, terrible experiences that a lot of, women, but I know men too, experience. It's different than like your mom being mean to you, for instance, or dad yelling at you, or whatever. it's a different type of energy. So it's really restoring back to them something that feels like it was probably lost along the way. Absolutely. it is very much about redefining your relationship with yourself and redefining your relationship with that event. 'Cause so one of the things in my philosophies is that there's really no such thing as an inherently traumatic event. Okay. And by that, I mean there is no singular experience that everyone and anyone can go through and they're guaranteed to come out traumatized. Okay. Because trauma is a response, and it's very specifically a response to feeling out of control and unsafe that creates a split between who you are and who you believe yourself to be. So, to make that a little bit more grounded, like I believed I was safe, but this thing happened, and it turns out I'm not. Mm-hmm. And so when we approach somatic shadow work, when we approach, reorganizing and re- rewiring that instance in our memory and in our body and in our sensation. Like, one, we are never looking to shame the response. Like, getting frozen, getting stuck, super normal- Mm-hmm super absolutely great and wonderful, because it is your body's way of using the resources it has at the time to keep you moving. Yeah. If you're still alive, congrats, you did it. And it might not feel great right now, but it is good. Not even just fine, but good. And for anyone listening, if you don't believe that right now, I totally honor that, I appreciate that. I'm not asking you to, but I do ask you to consider it. And so when we come from this place of trauma, we really need to be looking at, well, how is who I believe I am still true- Mm-hmm regardless of what it looks like. Because the truth is is that you are safe. You are still safe. But what does safety mean that you then started to feel like you weren't? What was challenged during that event that made you feel l- like that fundamental core truth was a lie? Mm-hmm. And, that can be also one of the massive benefits of really bringing in and tapping into that body language of what's going on, what is attached to this. so like for instance, there was a woman who had come to me, and again, lots of trauma symptoms. She had experienced long-standing sexual abuse as a child, and, as she told the story, she was like, she was very, very- set on that the trauma was the abuse. The trauma was the thing that happened, to her body. However, when we really listened to what she was saying, when we really started to pull out what was going on, the thing that actually traumatized her was the fact that she told her mother, she told her teachers, she told several people, and no one believed her. And that was the thing that ultimately made her feel unsafe. And so by being able to tease that out and, one, accurately address it, and then roll around how you don't need other people to believe you to feel safe. Like, absolutely we want, especially when you're young, we want people to believe you. But as an adult, being able to come into that understanding that doesn't matter what other people responded, especially because they probably responded that way 'cause they didn't have the capacity to handle it any more than you did. but it doesn't matter what they did. You now have the resources, and here's how we tap in so you can feel them within your own body. Not just know they're there, but find them within yourself and bring them out. That's very powerful, Rhiannon. So I would assume that when somebody starts to realize, like this lady, like, "Okay, I didn't have people to believe me back then, but as this adult I can find within myself the ways to validate myself without the external need," or whatever it may be, whatever she does. And then I would really feel in one's body that that would create such a softening and such a healing within itself to feel resourced. And then from a quantum physics perspective, that changes the whole dynamic of the past. Absolutely. Right? It just unlocks- Absolutely and just ch- ch- everything shifts because now- Yeah you're not held in that belief anymore. Absolutely. And so your body can start to rearrange and... Okay, so this is so cool because I think people who are listening to this that have had sexual trauma, for instance- When you're violated like that, there's these stories of, "Oh, I'm, I'm, I have shame, I'm this, I'm that." And then it does restrict oftentimes their ability to show up fully in relationship because they're still holding that experience or whatever was around it. Kinda like- Yeah you were saying the, the trauma isn't always the abuse, it's the repercussions and the things that are happening afterwards that could be- Mm-hmm around it as well. Yes. And what a powerful way to work with it and reframe it, and give permission to oneself to reclaim their power. 'Cause that's what you're- Yeah that's what you're helping them do, is reclaim their power and, and liberate their body to not have to be in that story for the rest of their lives. And I love how you said it's like there's nothing that your body will go through, and I'm gonna probably butcher your words so you might have to say it, but nothing your body will go through that you can't handle in some way. No, that is exactly correct. There are things that we fear happening, and there are things that would create more challenge for us, like if you lost a limb that would absolutely create more challenge. But we even know, like from happiness research, that our baseline happiness, regardless of how massively good something is or how massively tragic something is, we will ultimately return to our baseline. And so setting our baseline is really important. You used the term reclaim your power. I would more say it's about recognizing your power. Because you can't actually give away or have someone take power from you. it's already there, and it's always there. It's just a matter of how are you using it? How are you implementing it? Who are you lending it to? or where are you seeing your power rather reflected through others, are you holding yourself back? Are you moving yourself forward? It's just about being able to tap in and recognize that your power is there. It always was. It never went anywhere. No one took it from you. They tried, but they couldn't take it from you because it's yours. It is you. And so just like no one can take you away from yourself, God can absolutely create a mountain that it cannot move as long as the God forgets that they're the one that created the mountain. but if you remember that you created the mountain, you can move whatever you want to. And part of that is recognizing like in the instance of sexual assault- Mm-hmm you were absolutely invaded. You were absolutely harmed. But the question is were you violated? Were you damaged? Because those are not the same thing. And being able to feel those distinctions, understand and embody those nuances can be, the massive difference between people who are stuck in the loop, who repeat the cycles and repeat the symptoms, and people who can find something new. Because one of them you're being buried, and the other one you have new ground to stand on. Rhiannon, you are speaking to this in such a way that- it sounds like you have your own experiences with it So, you know, heal or heal thyself is always a, it's, it's a plea, it's an imperative, it is a demand and it's a reality. Mm. And so like most people in the healing arts and in the touch professions and the caring professions, I definitely had my own experiences growing up, with, sexual trauma, sexual abuse. I experienced vaginismus and vestibulitis, so, which are basically terms for stuff hurts and we don't know why. Mm. Yes. My vagina hurts, sex sucks, we don't know why. I had a lot of chronic back pain. I had a lot of digestive issues. And so- I mean, I have intuitively and naturally massaged for my entire life. my abuela says so from even before I can remember. And so as I kind of evolved in my career and I allowed myself to bring back online the energetic components- I found my niche focusing on that chronic pain, on the pelvic pain, the sexual pain, the pelvic floor dysfunction, the trauma. But I also found that space where I could open up my own energy. And honestly, it's so interesting to me sometimes trying to talk about what I experience now because I remember it happened. I know how much it sucked. I remember the symptoms that I had, but I can't touch them anymore. Like, there's no, there's no lived connection to those things. And so it's like, it's one of those things that now makes me sometimes feel like a fraud because I'm like, I know it sucks, but I can't tell you exactly how anymore." Yeah. I just don't remember. Well, you've shifted out of that identity. Exactly of the work that you do with other people, you had a former version of you that experienced that, and now that you're in a new identity it does... I know all the trauma that I've experienced. Like, I look back and I can remember it, but I don't have the same attachment, or when I tell it I'm not like- There's no charge. Yeah. There's no charge. I'm just like, "Okay, this is, this happened, but..." And I don't even wanna tell people from a point of view of "Oh, yeah, this happened to me, and I want..." Yeah. It's not even like I'm looking for something in particular. It's just part of my- It's no longer the point. Yeah. It's no longer the point. And sometimes it's important, especially in your line of work, for people to understand you're not just saying this thing, like when you were saying earlier, 'cause I was like, "Ooh, I bet some people might be triggered when you're saying the thing about you may have been violated, but were you truly violated?" Because- Invaded. Yeah. Invaded. You were invaded. Invaded. There's no- Invaded there's no arguing that. But were you violated? Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause that's- 'cause that's up to somebody's perception. Is, is that what you kinda mean by that? And I think- Yeah yeah. And it's so important because you're not saying this from somebody objectively looking on the side that hasn't... You, you're saying it because you once, too, survived that. And so it's really... Oh, it's so incredible that you're on the other side of it and that you can speak to it in such a way that it is the past Mm-hmm It's the past Yeah And with all the healing work, I know you've done so much healing work on other people, but what has been the most healing thing for you? Like, how did you step into that new identity and really just shift out of that old story? And it sounds like you healed a lot of symptoms as well. Oh, yeah. Like, again, so when there is an energetic root, if your structure has to form and contort around it, as soon as you remove that, that cause, then there's no need for the effect. And so- I'm sorry. Ask me that question one more time. What? no, the- I love what you just said, but yes, I'll ask it again. What helped you heal the most? Like, you personally. Mm. Mm-hmm. 'Cause I know you're such a healer for other people, and it's like heal- healer, heal thyself. What helped you? So definitely just- So in terms of modalities, one I found, so my abdominal work, which is one of the key things that I offer people when they're in studio with me and when we can do hands-on work because I teach you that skill. I teach you how to do that, not just like wait for you to come back because why? having that practice, having that ritual to do daily, one really opened up, helped me reembody and settle into my structure. And then I did about a year of really intensive energy work, 'cause I had done the PT, I had seen the OBs. I, or the gynecologist, not the OBs. I was not pregnant. I did the physical therapy. I saw my therapist. there was a time when I had like five doctor's appointments a week. I was spending so much time and so much money. And, you know, everyone was lovely and everyone helped some, but some of it, like especially the pelvic floor PT, my therapist, she was amazing. It's just if anyone has ever done internal work especially when you are not over the trauma aspect, like it can just be re-traumatizing. And then everything else was just slow. I'm a little impatient. So I'm like I always tell people, I have very little patience, but I have a ton of persistence. Mm-hmm. So I very specifically did about a year of almost daily very intensive, emotion code work on myself. And one day I walked into my therapist's office, and I was just like, "We're good." And she was like, "Oh my God, you are." I could say the word sex out loud. until I was 27 years old, I physically could not say the word sex. I could think about what happened, and it was fine. I didn't have like all the sensory flashbacks. there wasn't panic attacks. It was just kind of everything dissolved, and so the work I do now is really an expedited version of all of that. It's taken everything that I have learned and consolidated it and combined it with my skills to be able to see the appropriate door to walk through. And in terms of how, those were the mechanics. But really it is a jump. It is a shift. It's like you put something down. You, instead of it being like a skin that you're in that doesn't quite fit, it becomes like, a snow globe that you can shake up every once in a while if you want to, but then you can put it on a dresser and you can walk away. Yes that's, yeah That's a great analogy. I like that. the way that you, yes, you are persistent, 'cause the way that you were describing that you did energy work- every day for a year, that's pretty powerful. I could imagine that there was a lot of shifts in there because I've done energy work for my clients for the last, I don't know, 20-plus years, and I know that energy work, even though we just think we're just, it, moving energy, doing a little healing, those little healings can do some really profound shifts in people's lives. So I can only imagine that that devotion that you had to healing, and then to have your therapist tell you, like, "Yeah, you're good," that must have been such a home run or such a great feeling to be like, "Okay, I made it- Yeah to the finish line." It was just like, well, this is what is. And honestly, I was just very tired of my own shit, so Well, we do have to get to that point You know, I was tired of feeling that way, and so it was just like, I'm done. I can feel it. This is my door. I am going to bulldoze ahead. Yes We do have to get to that point where sometimes we're just so sick and tired of saying the same story or having the same pattern show up, and get to a point where it's like, wait, if I have to live this one more time, I'm not- gonna be very happy. So that's when you know it's time to go find the right practitioner, to find somebody to support you, to help you move through this and alleviate it to some degree. So that being said, Rhiannon, where can people find you? your work is so profound. Where can people find you? the best place for people to reach out to me is gonna be through my website, which is somaticshadowtherapy.com. I do have a Facebook, but I am not a big social media person, so, if you try there, I'll check it eventually. But check out my website. you can shoot me an email. You can check out my services. and you can also find my phone number, where you can call or you can text me. 'Cause I am still one of those people that likes as much actual communication as possible. for people who aren't in the Philadelphia area, 'cause I do have an office, I do see people in person, but I also work with people virtually. So if you are further away than what you really wanna drive, then we have options. I love that. that's amazing that people all over can work with you. One last question, Rhiannon. So based on everything that you know, what do you see next for healing? What do you think is coming next, whether it's in your own practice or just collectively? So my hope as what I see in the world at large is we're in the middle of another one of those big pendulum swings, right? In so many ways. We've gone from one extreme to, like, we're moving toward another. And in my life, I have recently just come through one of my own personal big pendulum swings. A lot of change, a lot of shifts, a lot of trying new things and figuring out what works and what doesn't work, and flipping over tables to start new stuff. That's exciting. and I'm so glad that we're past that now. And I'm really been just enjoying sinking back into the magic of the every day, of noticing all of the magic that just happens without having to try, that doesn't have to be flashy magic. It's the how stuff lines up just perfectly, and so even when you don't try or even when it looks like things are going wrong. And so my massive hope is that as we come through this pendulum swing societally and globally, that that's eventually what we're coming back to, is to find that balance, to be able to activate the both and, to pull in the mind and the body to understand who we are, and not just be stuck in these very rigid ways of looking at ourselves and each other that keep us from coming together. I think that is my deep hope for the healing that's happening in the world at large. That's a beautiful way to see it. And Rhiannon, I thank you so much for being here and sharing with our listeners all your little wisdom nuggets that you provided, and it's just been such a pleasure. Thank you. Well, thank you for having me. I hope all the listeners found something helpful and inspiring and hopeful in whatever I had to share. So thank you so much for offering this beautiful space and holding it so well. Thank you for being here and for being a part of a movement that's revolutionizing what's possible with healing. You being here matters. Share this episode with someone who's ready. Subscribe so you never miss what's next, and come find your people at all within.com. Until then, stay curious and trust what's unfolding