When Faith Feels Fragile: Madi’s Story

Trigger warning: some of the topics may be triggering to some listeners.

If you’re looking for a Christian podcast that speaks honestly about trauma healing, anxiety, God’s goodness, and generational healing, press play and stay with us. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs it, and leave a review with the biggest question you’re still asking God.

Transcript

Welcome And Content Warning

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi everybody, my if you don't know me. Welcome to the first episode of Walking About. This has been so much fun to learn all things like that. Um before we started this, I had no idea what I was doing. I still kind of have no idea what I've got. But I'll talk about that. So I'm just really grateful that you're here. Thank you for being here for listening. Um give me all the feedback and try to overlook our few technological difficulties that we had. Um I promised that we'll get better better as well. I also wanted to take this uh time to warn anybody who's looking that there are topics discussed in the conversation that may be preparing for some. And so um if that's you, I just ask that you take care of you and if that means you don't listen. I'm not offended to take care of you. And um, I'm very excited for this project. I'm so excited to see all that God does. And um, thank you again for being here. I'll see you in there.

unknown 1:06

Okay.

Birthday Jokes And First-Time Nerves

SPEAKER_00 1:07

You just want to start singing happy birthday. Oh my gosh, that's so good. Okay, ready. Happy birthday.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

It was your birthday yesterday. It was. It was. So you're like 26. Yeah, you've passed the I'm over the hill. Yeah. The mid-20 crisis. Yeah, I made it. I had one of those. Yeah. I was like, whoa, 25 is like the big deal. Actually, crazy. And 26 is like now I'm closer to 30. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Do you feel different? No, I no, I don't. But my sister got me balloons, yeah. Um, and it was like a two and a six. And Silas, my two-year-old, yeah, woke up and started saying, six, two, six, two. And so I was like, no, honey, two, six. Like I'm 26, not 62. So that was humbling. Yeah, we had to walk through how old mommy was.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Yeah, yeah. And I was like, You are elderly.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Six, two. Well, I'm so excited that you're here.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

First episode. Yeah. I'm so honored. Like, it's just exciting. I've never done this before. Me either. Yeah, we're doing it together. It's great.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Um, well, I wanted to just kind of get into you and your life. Um, you have a really powerful testimony and just the goodness of God in your life. And also, like, yeah, you're just out here doing the things. Yeah. And God doing them through you. So go for it. Like, tell us, tell us your your life story.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Okay,

Childhood Loss And A Shaken Home

SPEAKER_00 2:41

I'll try to do it as fast as I can because it feels like it could take hours. Um, so I grew up in Cedar Rapids. Yeah. Um I um grew up in a Christian home, starting out as a Christian home, was going to church. Um, and then when I was eight, my mom got pregnant with twins. Um, and I had already had, it was me, I'm the oldest, and then my younger sister, and then now we were gonna have two younger sisters. Oh my goodness. And uh, you know, everyone was really excited, it was fun, and then I think in her eighth month of pregnancy, she had found out that one of the girls had passed away in the womb.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

That's so hard.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Um, and so that was like a shock and a challenge. Um, but then she birthed both of them, and my living sister, her name was Veya, um, she had so many heart and like medical problems. So she had five open heart surgeries before she was three. Um, all of her organs were flipped on the wrong side, whatever. It was just a really big mess. We were in and out of the University of Iowa for most of that time. Um, but then when she was three and a half, she ended up passing away as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

And so at that point, I'm 12. Um, and my mom and dad didn't handle it well. Which when I'm like now that I'm a mom, I'm like, I don't know that I would handle it well either.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

So I've I've had a lot of grace in that. Um but they didn't they didn't handle it well, and so my mom um, you know, was absent. My dad worked, my mom stayed home with us, we were homeschooled, um but she just was there but wasn't yeah and then my dad was working, and then when he came home, he was absent as well. I mean, they were just both really hurting people, yeah. Um, and just didn't have the capacity to do much besides grieve. And so um I kind of me and my sister raised ourselves. Yeah, um, we lived with my aunts on and off um for months at a time.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Just ignore the beeping in the background.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fine. Everything's fine. I hope it's not my car. It doesn't sound like um where was I? Oh, homeschooled, no, no, living with our aunts. So life was really unstable. Yeah, like I never knew where I was gonna be the next day. I never wanted to be home. I always wanted to be with someone, staying the night at someone's house. I guess didn't want to be there.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Um, and so I went through high school and my main goal was to just be as busy

Missions And The Crash Back Home

SPEAKER_00 5:18

as possible.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

And so I like really got involved with my youth group, which was really good. Um, but was just always trying to not be home. Yeah. Um, and then I graduated high school at 17 and I had always felt like I wanted to serve God and like be in um the ministry. And so most of my family, when they graduated high school, they did a gap year and did a discipleship training school with YWAM. Yeah. And so you do three months of like Bible school and then three months where they ship you off into a different country and you just do ministry, which is wild. Yeah. Especially at 17. No, no, who let me go to so I went to Australia. So I was in Australia at 17, like someone had to be my legal guardian while I was there. Wow. It was crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

So you weren't even you weren't even of age yet. Like you know, I was a minor.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Oh my god. Yeah. I had like a a guardian. It was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

So I went and did that. Um, and then spent three months in the Philippines, and it was a great time. You know, being 17, it was really hard because I was like in a third world country, right? No Wi-Fi, no air conditioning. The boy that I liked had dumped me while I was there. And so I know it was just not nice. Yeah. And so I was struggling a little bit, right? Um, you know, at this point, as we're ending the like nearing the end of it, I'm asking God, like, okay, I've given you so much. Right. And like I just don't feel like it's been reciprocated.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Um, and as a 17-year-old girl, I think that's a fair question or a fair thing to pose of like, okay, I was supposed to give you my life, and what I was told is that you would bless me. Right. And I just don't feel blessed.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

So I came home. I actually felt the Lord clearly tell me to come home and go to school for some sort of medical job. And I was confused because I thought I was gonna be a missionary, but I was like, okay, I'll go home. Enrolled at Kirkwood, um, started dating my husband and just started doing things my own way. Right. Um, lived a very independent lifestyle, I will say. Um, my when I came home, like everything I felt like crashed and burned. I came home from Australia. My mom told me she didn't believe in God anymore. My parents were getting a divorce. Um, there was, you know, drug drug abuse involved with my mom, and it was just not a good situation. And so I didn't feel like I could live there anymore. I was 18 now, and I have a boyfriend.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

And the solution was well, I don't want to live here anymore. I don't feel like I can go anywhere else. I'm just gonna move in with my boyfriend. Right. And so we moved in together after six months of dating. Um, and it was bad. We just fought a lot. The only time that we really were okay was when we were drunk. Um, and so we just partied a lot because then we were happy, right? You guys liked each other, yeah. Exactly. Um, and so you know, by the grace of God, we got engaged and married, and in the process, I became a paramedic. Um, and so in the combination of unresolved issues that I had with God, yeah. Um, finding out all of these things, once you become an adult, everyone starts telling you everything. Yeah, you know, you just start finding out things, and you're like, oh my god. You're like, wait, wait, that was happening. Yeah, literally. Oh, so that was happening. You know, I started really struggling with anxiety. Like I started experiencing panic attacks for the first time. And so whatever, we were just living our lives how we wanted

Paramedic Trauma Anxiety And Rock Bottom

SPEAKER_00 8:51

to. Well, then I was working as a paramedic and I was just witnessing really bad things. Um gosh, I can't even imagine.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

I thought I wanted to be a paramedic for like three weeks, and then I thought about like what that requires, and I was like, never mind, not for me.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

No, it's not for me. No, yeah, you think it's like fun wee woo, drive the ambulance. The wee woo. Yeah, no, it's the wee-woo, you get in the wee-woo. But it is like you see people in their worst moments. Yeah, I can't. Yeah, and I just had a couple of patients that you know, I try when they teach you to be a paramedic, they teach you this is how to save people. Yeah, and so I did all those things and I still couldn't save them.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

They still died, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

And immediately I was like, I failed. Yeah, I was supposed to save them and I failed.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Like that's the weight of a human life.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yes, yeah, like their family when they called 911 was depending on me to save them. That's so heavy. Oh my gosh, and I'm 21. Right. You know what I mean? Like there's just no, and there was no like support system built for that. Right. Um, and so it was just heavy. And then I had a sister die, and so I'm like backtracking to my my trauma, right? Of like, I couldn't, I felt like I was out of control in that situation and I couldn't save her. And then now I'm an adult, a trained medical professional, and I still can't save people. Yeah, it was like an identity crisis. And so I hit rock bottom, I got really depressed slowly, and then one night I like texted the suicide hotline, and I was like, I think I'm too scared to do this, but I don't want to live anymore.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Shout out to the suicide hotline, yes, like texting them, so accessible.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

I was so scared to call. Yeah, I hate the phone, I hate calling on the phone. No, um, but to be able to text and have someone just immediately like it's not like she was a Christian, it's not like she presented like the gospel to me. Yeah, but she was like, just hang on one more day. Yeah, you know, and and you're it was just I don't even know what she said, I can't even remember, but I remember doing it and feeling like wow, it's come to this, you know.

Genesis And A Sudden Heart Change

SPEAKER_00 10:56

So then months went on, and Connor's family came to visit for Christmas, and his dad woke up one morning and was sitting at the kitchen table reading his Bible. And I was like, Oh, I should I should do that. I haven't read my Bible in a long time. Like, I remember reading it when I was in high school, but I haven't done it in a while. Yeah. And so I opened to Genesis and I'm like, let's read the Bible, right? I'm like, kind of a hard place to start to read the Bible, yeah, if we're being honest. But God will use it. He will, and he did, because if you normally, I mean, people get they're like, I tried to read the Bible, but I started in Genesis and it was just too confusing. But for me, I read it and it was like the scales were removed from my eyes, and the Lord was like just showing me his character through it all. Yeah, it wasn't like understand this, it was like see who I am, right? You know, like here's the truth. Um, and it was mind-blowing. Yeah like I felt like everything changed. And so I felt like he told me to quit my job at the ambulance, quit my job, had no nothing else lined up. I literally spent a month in between jobs just waking up every day and studying the scripture all day long. I didn't, it was just me and Connor, my husband, and he was at work every day, and I was just yeah reading and absorbing and learning.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

That's such a sweet place to be. Like, I remember that season for me, like right after I got saved, and it was like eat, sleep, breathe Bible. Eat, sleep, breathe, Jesus. Yes. And like the work that God does in that, it's usually for me, it was a pretty short amount of time where it was like that's all I did. But the work that he did in that time is supernatural, like it's years of work in this like month, two-month process. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So good.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Well, and I think that that was so necessary for me because you know, you'd think like that I would have had a foundation, right? And we we've talked about this before where it's like you I went to Bible school, I did a mission trip, I grew up going to youth group, and you'd think that I would have known all these things, right? But I didn't. Like I knew about God, but I didn't know God. Yeah, and it's so different.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Yeah, yeah. You can have that head knowledge and just it never translates to your heart.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

And even with the head knowledge, it's like you know, like you're saying, you know of him and you know what teachers have taught you. But like the Bible says, you know, um, taste and see, right? It's like once you've tasted and seen, even if it hasn't fully translated to your heart yet, once you know who he is and you've seen him move in your life, it's like forget it. You know, you can't, you can't ever go back.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's funny that you mentioned that verse because we were just talking about that verse in my Sunday school class at church. And I was just trying to encourage everyone, like, I can't, I can't taste and see for you. Yes. Like Pastor Michael can't taste and see for you. Um, I can explain to you how something tastes, yeah, right. Or I can describe to you the Grand Canyon. Have you ever been to the Grand Canyon? Oh my gosh. You can see it in pictures, you can see it in pictures, you can hear about it, right? But then you're standing there and it literally felt like there was a movie screen. Like it didn't feel real. It didn't feel real at all. Yeah, it's crazy. And so it's the same thing with the Lord. Like we could just, I mean, you've just heard that, but you have no idea until you experience it for yourself. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

That's a really good just analogy of like I could describe to you how good this chocolate cake tastes. And I can tell you the texture, and I can tell you like the intricacies of this cake. Yeah. But until you take a bite, you will you just can't fully grasp it. No. And I think that we see that just in our daily lives when we talk to the people we love and who maybe don't follow the Lord, it's like, I know that you think I'm crazy. I realize like if I had a piece of chocolate cake and I was telling you every part of it, and you're like, it cannot be that good. Yeah, you literally got it from the start. Like, calm down, calm down. It's a chocolate cake. And it's like, no, you don't understand this will literally change your life. Yes. And it changed mine. Yes. And so, yeah, I love that analogy. That's so good.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Yeah. Yeah. So I spent a month doing that. And then this fire of like, I need to tell people about this kind of got lit. And um, I didn't know what that looked like. And so I went to my pastor and I was like, hey, I feel like I need to I need to go back to obeying that initial call that I felt on my life. Right in high school, I felt called to serve him. And then I did for a little bit, and then I just did my own thing. And now I'm like, okay, I need to return and and really obey. And um, I had had a couple people kind of speak words over me of of youth and young people, and I'd never seen myself in that space. Yeah. Um, but I was like, you know what? I'll dive into it and I'll like kind of pray into it. And the Lord began to give me a heart for young people.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Um, and so I became the youth pastor at our church.

Learning To Lead Young People

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Um, with no, there were like two kids, first of all. The youth group was had like dwindled down so much, it was really sad. There were two kids, I remember this so vividly, showing up on a Wednesday night, and we took attendance, and there were more adults in the room than there were students. But it was cool because I got to build it. Yeah, you know, like I was like, okay, let's make this a new thing. And so we got to build it up again, and it was really cool. The rest of the story is really fast. I had my son, um, Silas, and he's amazing, and I love him so much. He's so cute. He's adorable and he's talking so much right now, it's crazy. Um, but had him went back to being a paramedic because the Lord clearly told me to, and I was terrified. Yeah. Um, because I had been transformed. I was a new person. Yeah. I was like, how how am I supposed to go back? Yeah. Um, and so I learned how to do it in a holy way, which is really cool. Like at the end of my time or working as a paramedic, I was like praying over my patients and like it was just really cool. Like with them, like right there. It was so not hopefully no one's watching that would get me in trouble for that. Um, but it's already happened. So what are you gonna do? Um, I already prayed for him, so can't take it back. Can't take it back. But then last year, the Lord, I felt like I saw a vision of me like standing on a cliff, and I just had this like, what's the next step? What's the next step? Right. And he just wasn't telling me, and I was getting really frustrated. And I remember like going to Florida and meeting with my best friend and just crying to her, being like, What am I waiting for? Like, what's happening? And I just want to do it. Um, and then like a month later, I came home and um found the application for Youth for Christ.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

And I didn't know I didn't even know what an executive director was, which if I would have known, I don't know, I probably wouldn't have applied because I would have been like, there's no way. Yeah. But I was like, full-time ministry, young people, let's go. Yeah. And so I applied and they interviewed me like seven, eight times. Oh my goodness. I know. Well, I think they were shocked that I was, I mean, 25 and a female. There was never been someone in my role.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Um, but then I just prayed. I was like, Lord, if this is what you want, let it be. Yeah. And if it's not, like, please slam the door shut and lock it because I don't want to weasel my way in, you know? Yeah. Because if you're like, uh I'll do it because it sounds fun, yeah, but you don't have the Lord's blessing. Right. Like, what happens when you get into it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Yeah. But here I am. So here you are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

You made it. I made it. Um, I love the I pray that prayer all the time. Lord, if this is for you, from you, like open the door, and if not, slam it shut because I want no part of it.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

No.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Uh, when we were when we were trying to buy a house, we lived at my in-laws for like six months, I think. And it was intense for everyone. Like, I have four kids, so and then there were three other adults besides our family. So there's nine people in this house. Wow. Yeah. And four kids, six and under. It was just intense. But we kept trying to like put offers on houses that we probably had no business buying because we were just like, oh my gosh, get us out of this season. And every single one of them, like, the Lord was like, no, absolutely not. Or it would like they'd accept our offer offer and then something would fall through. And then when we found this house, it was like door wide open, walk through it, no hiccups, no nothing. Yeah. And that is just that's the Lord, right? It's like I've just learned to just step back and be like, I don't really need to worry because you're faithful. Yeah. And if this door opens, it's because you opened it. Um and if it slams shut, it's because you allowed it to. Yeah. And so I just learning that has been just like changed my

Trusting God With Shut Doors

SPEAKER_01 20:00

life. Oh, yeah. Because I think when we strive and we like, um, I definitely have the like, let me work, let me work, let me earn whatever, right? That's something I constantly fight with with the Lord. Let me earn your love. And he's like, no, yeah, it's it's already there. It's already there. You don't have to, um, I'm way better now than when I first got saved, but it's the process, right? And that was something that like just changed the way I saw everything. When I was like, Whoa, if I just like let you do it, then I don't end up in crazy scenarios where I'm like, oh, I'm I'm burnt out. This is horrible. How did I get here? And he's like, You were never supposed to be there. Yes. Like I shut the door and then you came in and literally yanked it open. Put yourself in there, and it was never for you.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Um I still find myself sometimes doing that, and I have to stop myself before it fully opens because I'm like, just let me in. And the Lord's like, could you just just sit down? Just sit down.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Go get a snack. Yes, take a little drinking, yes, chill out. Yes. No, it's real. Um, and I think it's because I mean, there's always like we're humans, there's always the like pride and ego for sure that we're always dying to, but then I think it's also like well-intentioned just zeal of like, no, I wanna, I wanna do it, let me do it, pick me, send me. And he's like, No, like I'm not sending you over there.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Well, and that's the thing, it's like you say, here I am, send me. Yeah, and not everyone's being sent to the same place. Yes. And he's like, That's wisdom.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

And so I'm like, Well, someone needs to go there, and he's like, Yes, I have someone, but like it's not you. Right, you know, not preparing them, or it's not the time.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Yeah, yeah. I wanted to touch on something you were

Believing God Is Real Not Good

SPEAKER_01 21:45

talking about when you were talking about getting back from the Philippines, right? And just realizing that everything had crumbled and you had just spent months away from home and like just serving the Lord. That's literally. Literally while you were there. Yeah. You were there for no other reason but to serve the Lord. Yeah. And to come back and everything just be broken.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Like walk walk me through like where was your mind and how how did you reconcile that? Like knowing what you had knowledge knew about the Lord. Yeah. You know, obviously you you said you kind of fell away after that, but what was the like internal battle going on?

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Yeah. Um good question. I think feelings were louder than logic or knowledge at that point. And I felt really alone.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Um not only was my family broken, but the boy that I liked didn't want me anymore, and he never told me why. So then all of a sudden all of these lies from the enemy started flooding in. And um it just got overwhelming. My my mind got too overwhelming. And to rationalize, well, God didn't do this, you know, you know, God still cares for you through like that, which just wasn't even a I wasn't giving that the time of day. Yeah. I was just sulking in all of these thoughts. Like, you weren't pretty enough, you weren't skinny enough, you weren't this, you weren't a good enough Christian, because why would your family all fall away if you weren't, you know? And then all of the you just spent all this time serving God, and this is how he returns the favor, you know, all it's so looking back, it's like so serpenty. Right. But at the at the time, I mean, I'm 17. I'm 17.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Like you're a baby. I'm a baby. Yeah. And so I I've made some conscious decisions of like I I vividly remember saying, like, the way that God does things, I'm not really a fan of. Yeah. I kind of want to do it my own way. Um, and I don't think I ever lost my faith in God being real. Yeah. But I lost my faith in him being good. That's so good. And that's where I think a lot of people, yeah, if you ask people, they believe that there's a God. Yeah. They believe that there's a higher power. Maybe they won't admit that it's God because of previous hurts. Yeah. Like people that, what is it, like universalism, where they're like, oh, the universe is a god and the trees are a god. I'm like, it's it's Yahweh, okay? Just get over yourself. It's it. Um, but it's it's easy to to believe the lies that he's not good.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yeah, that's really good. Like, that'll preach the just it's not not that we don't believe that he's real, but that people forget or like they don't believe he's good. Yeah. Because that's the first question, right? If God's real, how can insert horrible tragedy here happen, right? Like, if God's good, how could so and so die, or how could people whatever? Oh my gosh. There are so many.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

There's so many.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Yeah. Yeah. Trying to pick one is like, especially with the world that we live in right now. But I think that that's um so important to acknowledge, of like evaluate where you're at, you know, people listening and and just ourselves, like, do I believe that God is good? And that was pivotal for me and my journey too. So as I was saying, um, I had to get to a place where I was like, if I'm professing that God is good with my mouth, then I have to believe it. So then when a situation rises up and Satan tries to be like, oh, is God really good? Did he really say I have to be like, this situation sucks. I hate this situation. Yeah. But God is good, yeah, and he's faithful, and he told me to rejoice in tribulation or rejoice in my trials. Um, but yeah, that's not always not always easy. No, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

And I don't think, and I don't know, maybe some people have had it where they've just overcome that, and in every situation they're like, God is good, so it's fine. Yeah. But I have to remind myself, of course, like still to this day. Like I um will be looking at a situation and I'll be anxious about it, and I'll just remind myself like who who's really in control. Yeah. Right. And then if God is in control, like are you believing that he's good right now? Right. Because um, the anxiety is making it seem like you don't. The anxiety is making it seem like maybe you think that God's going to sabotage it or God's going to not give you something.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

And another verse that has been coming up recently, I don't know the exact where it is, but Jesus is talking to his disciples and he's saying, like, you are evil people.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

But you give your kids really good gifts.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Oh, I love the scripture. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Like, how much more would your father in heaven, the good father, the perfect father, give you good things? You know, give you the Holy Spirit, give you it just doesn't make sense. Like, yeah, and I think that's something that I've been learning recently is like, what is a good father? And being parents, like, what is a good parent? Yeah. Um, and not trying to parent based off of trying to avoid everything my parents did, but parenting in the way that like I think that the Lord would, yeah, you know, right. Um, those those principles of his love and how he loves us is how I should love my son. Yes. Um, and so if he and if I okay, let me tell you a story. Yesterday it was my birthday, and I was at the store getting stuff for s'mores because we had a bonfire last night, and my favorite thing is s'mores. Anything like if you get me a s'mores um frappuccino, s'mores ice cream.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Have you had the s'mores blizzard? Yes, I have, and it is it literally is marshmallow in the chocolate.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

It's so good. So yeah, I'm a big s'mores girl. Um, and so I'm getting all that stuff, and then I walked through the aisle that has those like good to grow juices, yeah. And I was like, I want to see if they have a Mickey Mouse one for Silas because we haven't been able to find one yet. Um, and I found one and I was like, I found one.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

You were more excited than he probably was.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yes, I was like, oh my gosh, he's gonna love this. And I don't know, it was just a moment of like, okay, I previously on my birthdays, right? And maybe when I was 18, 19, 20, 21, I just wanted me, me, me, me, me. Like everyone, look at me. Uh my husband jokes that I had birthday like week where like I was like, just focus on me. I want it all on me. My birthday, but in that moment, it wasn't even it wasn't even forced. It was like this natural, like, I want my son to be happy, I want him to be excited.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Um, and I just think like if I felt like that about my son, like how much more does the father feel about me? Yes. And you have to remind yourself of that because it's so easy to either forget or revert back to maybe the way that your parents raised you, and it's hard to to relate those two.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Yes, I think that's huge. Um, when you don't have

Taking Thoughts Captive And Receiving Love

SPEAKER_01 29:15

when you don't have parents who whatever lead by example or just they're not exactly, I mean, because we I mess up all the time with my kids, but I'm talking about like where it's like trauma. Yeah. Trauma's the word I'm looking for. To envision that there is a father who loves you unconditionally, no matter what, it is so easy for Satan to be like, how could he love you unconditionally when your own parents couldn't X, Y, Z, right? And so it's a constant reminder. We um a while back, uh, there we we had a thing at church, a ministry night for women, and we had Pastor Chinika, she's in Jamaica, but she came and she talked, and it literally, the sermon changed my life, and it was all about how serving God is the majority of how we do it is in our mind. So, you know, there's scripture about just um having every thought captive and hold it to the obedience of Christ. And how when the enemy attacks, very rarely is it like this big, like, you know, yeah, oh my gosh, Satan is in the room with me. No, it's like just a little lie. Like if he can get you to just believe a lie or just get you to question, did God really say that that's all he needs to do. If he can just make you believe that God doesn't he loves everybody else and all of God's promises are for everyone else but you, then he can change your entire view of God. He's not scared of you being a Christian. No, he's he's not scared of you knowing who God is, even even the demons know. He's scared of a full embrace of God's love. Because if you truly embrace God's love for you, you are unstoppable for the kingdom of God. Yeah. Because then you have trust that God is not going to leave you. You're not afraid of anything because greater is he in you than he who is in the world. Right. And you don't, there's just a different level of life. It's the abundant life. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so if you if if Satan can just get you to not quite believe God's goodness for your life and not quite believe his love for you, then it it can, that's all he needs to do. That's his tactic, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Well, John 10-10, right? This the thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Yes. And when we hear that, we think of like tragedy and big things. And it's like stealing, killing, and destroying can happen pretty subtly. And we have to kind of be on guard.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Um, when you were saying like you can believe that he loves everyone else except for you, yeah. It reminded me of I was at a um the House of Hope conference this past weekend, and one of the girls was giving her testimony, and she ended it by like looking at the crowd and saying, Jesus loves you, like Jesus wants a relationship with you, like you are um worthy of that love, right? Like and she was just saying all of these things that were so truthful, and I sat there and I legitimately my mind said, That's so nice for everyone else around me. Right. That's so nice that she's saying that to them. And then the Lord was like, It's you, it's you, Maddie. You're in the crowd. You are just talking to you. And I was like, Oh, yeah, you're right. I am loved, but for some reason, like my mind goes, Oh, that's for them. Yeah. Yeah, did everyone in the room do that? Because that's gonna make me sad if so.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

I think that it's more common than we we think. Yeah, um, I just walked through this this weekend with the Lord of like, yeah, just trying to get that head knowledge to the heart, and it's a continuous thing. I think there's, you know, the Bible talks about going from glory to glory. And I I little pieces will go to my heart and I'm like, oh my gosh, you love me so much. I'm so overwhelmed. And then life goes for a little bit, and then I'm like, wait, but do you still? Yeah. Oh, you do? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

But it's the same thing, okay. Maybe you don't feel this way, but in my marriage, like we've been married for almost five years this October. Yeah. And I'll be like, Do you still like me? Yeah. We're married and have a kid and a home. We've built a life together, and I'm like, Do you still love me? Right? Of course he does. Like it's not like he's lacking showing me in the same way that the Lord doesn't lack showing us, but why can't we get that through our heads that the Lord loves us?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Yeah. I think it's just that. Um, I don't know. I think it's just the tension of being a human being and being broken, and but also being made new in Christ and having the Holy Spirit inside you. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I I love that you are able to, I think that's 90% of it is being able to catch, right? Like you caught it. You heard the Lord say, No, Maddie, this is for you, right? And being able to receive it. Where I think when you don't have the Holy Spirit and you're not walking in it, you're like, Well, I'm glad that God loves all these

Breaking Generational Patterns At Home

SPEAKER_01 34:22

people. Like, people could look at my life and be like, look how God has just blessed her and blah, blah, blah. And they're like, I'm glad Caitlin's just different. And it's like, nope, not at all. Home girl was a hot mess. Yeah. Still is sometimes. Yeah. But in a different way.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like in the sanctified, I'm a sanctified hot mess.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Exactly. That's now the tagline of the podcast. Yes. But it's like, I was, I was such a mess, and the only reason why my life looks like this is because God loves me. Yeah. And it's the same thing for anybody in this world. Like, He wants good things for us, He wants blessings for us, He wants our children to be blessed. Um, and that was one thing I wanted to hit before we close is do you feel like those generational things that your parents experienced? Do you ever feel a tug on your own life with those? Or do you feel like God has just like truly fully delivered you from those generational things?

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Sure. Well, I've definitely seen that it's a generational thing. Like if you look back, like there it's just a track record, you know, and I've seen it in different areas of my family. Um, and I've had um temptations, you know, like um addiction is a really big one that I've seen in my whole family. And for a little bit, um, alcohol was a really big struggle for me.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Um, and so that was something that I was seeing myself repeating patterns. And I think it was by the grace of God that I was able to see it because not everyone sees it. Right. Um, marriage, you know, my parents survived and and ended up in divorce. And so I didn't have a good example of what that looked like.

SPEAKER_04 36:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Um, and so even in our really hard moments um of marriage, because we still have those, like I think that's real life. Is hard. Well, and if anyone says that it's not, I think that that's being a little silly. Because it is so beautiful, right? So beautiful is my best friend. Yes. But also, do you remember when you were a kid and you had a sleepover, or maybe you like went on to like a whole weekend sleepover, and then you got really tired of that person? You're like, mom, please don't let me stay another night. Yes, don't let them stay another night because I can't handle them anymore. That happened to me all the time.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Yeah, when I ask you, say no.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Yeah, yes, yeah. You're like sign language, like don't do it. Um but that's sometimes they're like, you're with this person all the time. Like, of course, you're gonna get frustrated with them. Of course. Um, but when we hit those moments, I'm like, okay, I'm I'm have to make a choice. Yeah. I either have to break a curse right now and make choices to break that, or let it happen to me, you know, and like let it continue. Um so I think there's ones that the Lord has severed, yeah, but then there's ones that the Lord I think wants to walk through with me to sharpen me, yeah, you know, and be like, Maddie, this is a choice. Like, what are you gonna do in this moment? Yeah. Um, and I you could say, like, oh, that's awful. Why would he challenge you? But I think it's like what a good father to want to me to grow.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Right. You know, yeah, and like you said, like with your own kids, you're not just gonna do everything for them. No, that doesn't equip them for anything.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

No.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Um, even you know, just when they have feelings and they're they're feeling the things, like sometimes I I l will purposely like allow my kids to go without something, candy or whatever. And I'm like, this, I want you to work through this. Like, let's sit down. Let you have to learn how to walk through these things. Um, because that's our job. Yeah, and like you were saying earlier, how much more for our father in heaven. And yeah, I think the free will thing is huge. Oh, yeah. Because if he just does it all for us, it's not a relationship. No, it's force, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think another thing, like me growing up, my parents were present but absent emotionally. And for Silas, like as we're raising him, I found myself wanting to provide for him with things and stuff. Like, I'm like, if he just had this cool toy, if he just had, which is so silly when you say it out loud, but in my mind, it's like if he just had the experience of going and doing this, then maybe he wouldn't have the the issues that I have. Yeah, and praise the Lord, because I get with him and he's like, no, no, no. Right. He needs you to be there in those moments, you know, he needs you to be emotionally present. He doesn't need more things. You never needed more things. Yeah. I that's all I got thrown at me was things. Okay, here's this, here's an iPad, here's this, go do this. Yep. And that's when my loneliness like was cultivated. Right. Because I was just thrown things and then people walked away from me.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

And for him for like breaking those curses and and raising Silas, it's like, okay, what did I actually need that I didn't get?

SPEAKER_01 39:22

That's so good.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

And I can't base that, I don't think that I could have come up with that on my own. Right. And I think so many times parents try and do that. They're like, I know what I didn't have. Clearly, I didn't know what I didn't have because the Lord had to reveal it to me. Right. And so that solution came in in those quiet moments with the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

That's really good. And it's it's a real thing. I I also grew up with just absent parents, right? They're they're there, but they're not there. Yeah. And um I remember when I first had my oldest, Athena, I was working like 60 hours a week. And the Lord was like, be like, stay home, quit your job and stay home. And I was like, um, so that's not gonna work for me. Is there a different plan? And he's like, no. And it was so hard because the Lord revealed to me, like, you are avoiding being a mother, not because I didn't love her, but I didn't want to screw her up. Yeah, you know, and and it's so real and so scary when you are trying to break those generational curses, but just releasing, like, like, yes, I have a role to play in this, but ultimately God is like he reveals things as we need them, right? And so, yes, we have a role to play and being obedient to what he says, but also like he's so good to be like, hey, so yeah, here's what we're gonna do. Yeah, and gently, never, never aggressively, but just mean like I know that this was a hurt for you, so I'm gonna heal it in you through your children, yeah. And yeah, I just commend you because it's so much easier to not break the generational curse. Yeah, like it. I mean, you're miserable, but it's so much easier to just not do the work. It's so much easier to let life happen to you.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

Yes. And I feel like so many people just let life happen to them. Yeah. And then it'd be like the complacency and the the woe is me and the victim mentality comes in, and it's like, there's don't get me wrong, there's things that happen to people that are awful.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Um, but I think we've all been through stuff. Yeah. We've all been through stuff. And what are you gonna do with that? Right. Because again, we have free will. Yeah, life doesn't always just happen to you. Sometimes you have to make choices. And yeah, I don't I can't say that there's anything special about how I've done anything, except for the fact that I've I've clearly have moments in my life where I can look back and see like me making a distinct choice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Um I say all the time, I not me. I don't know where I got it, probably Instagram scrolling on the Rails. But um, what happened to you is not your fault, but it's your responsibility. So, like what happened to you, like, yeah, we've all been through things and we all have some sort of trauma, small or big, right? And while that is horrible and horrendous, and we live in a broken world, we have to take responsibility over those things and make healing a part of our journey and finding Jesus responsible for your reaction. Yes, exactly. Like it's your how you move forward, yes, even though that thing should not have happened to you and it's horrible that it did. How can we move forward in love? How can we heal? How can we, you know, so that your hurt doesn't hurt the other people around you? Yeah. Because that's what a generational curse is. It's like I'm just taking my hurt and passing it down to you, and you're taking that hurt and then your own hurt and just multiplying it and passing it down, it just gets bigger and bigger.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Yeah. So and sometimes we can be so selfish too and be like, Oh, I don't care. Like, I'm hurting, you know. And it's like I think you have to come to a place where you do have empathy for other people. And and for some people, that's when they have a kid. It's like once they have a their first child, like everything changes for them, and they're like, Oh, it's not just about me. Yeah, you know, there are pivotal moments where I feel like the Lord lets us see, like, okay, it's not just about me. Right, it's bigger than me. Yes, yeah. And maybe that's like for me, it was becoming a paramedic. I think that was a big moment of me being like, Oh, there's really hurting people around like this is bigger than just what I've been through. Right. Like, there's broken people. Um, and that it just allowed me to have more empathy. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

So good. Well, before we close

Ask The Hard Questions And Wrap

SPEAKER_01 43:50

out, what is something that you would say to somebody who is wrestling with the things we talked about, whether it's you know, hard home life. Or, you know, those hard questions with the Lord, like, how would you encourage somebody who is or isn't a believer? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Growing up, I felt this unsaid um expectation to just not ask questions. Yeah. If you say that you're a Christian, you should know, you should have it figured out. Um, and I think unbelievers do a really good job about asking all the questions. Yeah. Like, why do you believe that? Right. You know, and then Christians who don't ask those questions are like, oh, I guess I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

I don't really know.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

And I was just told to. Yeah. And I think that um Kyle Hunter said it really well recently on a different podcast. He was saying, like, faith isn't just like willy-nilly, oh yeah, I believe it. It's like putting your trust in something. Yeah. And if you're gonna trust something, I think you would seek it out to figure out what it's all about.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

And so, yes, there's some things that we just have to have blind faith in, right? When you ask, like, why do awful things happen to people, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, you know what? I don't fully know. Yeah. But I do know that God is good. Right. How do I know that God is good? Because I asked him. And I don't think he's afraid of those questions. Yeah. He's not afraid of you asking, God, why did you do this? God, are you good? And because he's big enough for that.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

And so my encouragement would be to anyone is to just ask really hard questions. It might feel unholy, but that's a lie from the enemy. Like it is holy to pursue God.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

And in pursuing him, you're you're asking questions to pursue him. Right. So.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Oh, that's so good. Yes. You're probably too young for this. Wait, do you remember? How old are you? 27. Oh my gosh, we're one year apart. Do you remember the asking all them questions video? Okay, yeah, no, I don't. It's fine. It's fine. Um, ask all the questions. Yes. And then Christians, equip yourself to know the answers. Ask the Bible too. Yeah, the Bible says, like, always be ready to make a defense for the hope that is in you. Yeah. I think that's the first. I think it is. And it's like, don't just do that to argue with people, do it for your own benefit. No, for your own benefit. Like, um, I've been so challenged in that lately. Like, yes, know why you believe what you believe. For me, it's like, oh, I just had an encounter. Yeah. But then people are like, well, how do you know? And I'm like, oh, I should dig in and figure out. You know, like why do I believe that? So yes, ask the hard questions and don't be afraid. Well, it was a good first episode. You did it. You did it. Yay. Um, thank you for being here. Of course. Thank you for the combo. Yeah. Um, volunteer at Youth for Christ. Do it. The boss is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Um, and join us next week for the next episode. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

It was good. Yay. We did it. Oh my gosh, and it ended we ended really early too.