"The boundaries I set to avoid burnout…"

"Nonprofits aren't inherently better than corporate America..." ⬅️ This was the realization Eric DePalma made about work/life balance early on in his career. Eric shares the changes he made to stop the burnout cycle and the green flag moment that showed his employer was on the same page.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Nonprofit Diaries, where we share the stories that don't make the newsletter. I'm your host, Kimberly Bottom, and this week's guest is such a treat. I met him through the Nonprofit Hive, which helps connect nonprofit professionals for weekly or bi-weekly video chats, and you can talk about anything. It's really a great way to meet people in our very remote world. So if you're interested, I'll link some more information in the description in this episode. So Eric was my very first Hive chat. He immediately struck me as unapologetically real, sharp, witty, candid, kind, all the best qualities, seasoned fundraiser. He's worked for several California-based nonprofits and started his own consulting business, Red Langer Strategies. And he's also the mastermind behind the nonprofit burn book for all you mean girls fans like me out there. If you need a place to anonymously vent or relate to others experiencing those nonprofit shenanigans, check it out because he's not a regular nonprofit pro. He's like a cool nonprofit pro. So please help me welcome Eric DePama to our podcast. Eric, thank you for coming.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Of course, of course. I'm so honored.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

I am honored, my friend. So I want to first and foremost just set the stage for your diary entry because you've been fundraising for several years. You clearly love it, but not every step of the journey has been easy. I think a lot of us can relate to that. So first of all, fill us in on how you got into nonprofit work.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Yeah, honestly, I started in college. Um, I was uh in my bachelor's for anthropology. Um, and then I went on to get my master's. And during that time, um, as as many of us do, we got I got really close to one of my professors um who became a mentor for me. Um and she ran a nonprofit um focused in uh like wildlife conservation, specifically with uh orangutans. So uh because I was, you know, trying to get my PhD at the time, I was like, oh, this is great. Like I'm gonna get closer to wildlife conservation. And it kind of set me off on the path of nonprofit work. From there, I went to a lot of other nonprofit organizations, um, a lot of animal welfare conservation organizations. So that really was the start of my career.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Very nice. And obviously it's something that, like you said, it was passion driven. Um, but you probably, as many of us do in nonprofit work, quickly realize that like the passion makes up for a lot of the hard times, right? Because it's not easy work. So tell me when you start first started to kind of realize like, wow, I'm I'm real tired. Or like, wow, this isn't exactly what I thought it would be.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

I remember I was working for like an international organization, um, very like corporate like structure. And I just remember like the the feeling of like always, always going. Like there was never a time during the year that we there was never like a slow period. There was never like it was always just go, go, go. Um, we mainly did like peer-to-peer fundraising. And we did two pretty large scale events. Um, and the way that the organization was structured was uh you were just area based. So you had like a territory that you managed. So I was I was in charge of San Diego, and it was just like those were like the two that would you like all you focused on all year long were these two events. Um and it was just a lot. So I remember feeling the strain at that point.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Yeah. What were some of those like signals for you? Because I sometimes I feel like in in my experience as a professional, I look back and I'm like, how did I not know sooner that I was so tired and so like on the edge of burnout, right? It was when I stopped attending anything with my friends, or like when I would crash without washing my face, or you know, like what were the what were the like the warning signs for you?

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Yeah, honestly, I think, you know, that being my first full-time job, I think it was I had I had left a couple of part-time jobs to take that job. After getting that first like adult job, it was, I think I realized I was like, okay, the the passion for like the subject matter isn't necessarily there. Like I believed in their mission and I thought they did really amazing work. Um, but just because I was, you know, in that full-time job didn't solve all of the problems. Like the the constant expectations to like do better, do more, do like higher things, you know, um was really tiring. And after that, for me at least, there became a a much bigger um focus on like, okay, what am I getting out of this job?

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Right. So tell me how you pivoted once that realization kind of set in.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah, I I think I went on to do uh to go back into like animal work full-time, but in a fundraising capacity. So like this was my first time, you know, being in like that full-time fundraiser role after doing it like part-time on and off for a couple of years. Um and I learned a lot. Um, I was working at an animal shelter. It was a really amazing organization. Um, but unfortunately, like the culture just wasn't there. That was like a big moment for me because I really hit rock bottom. Like to me, like a lot of very important things started at that point in my life. Like I started going back to therapy, um, you know, uh for which I have not stopped since right, yeah. Right. Like, so like there was a huge shift for me in terms of my own like mental health and what I was doing um and how I was making choices for myself because the way that I had traditionally gone into jobs was just like to throw my entire self into them. Like I was, I would work, you know, longer hours than I needed to. Like, I'm not gonna say I was working 24-7 or you know, 18 hours a day or anything like that. But I was doing more than I needed to. I was concerning myself with things that I shouldn't have, right? Like I was going above and beyond every single day. Um not that there's anything wrong with that, but when sustainable and when like the people around you or especially above you take that for granted or start to, you know, um take advantage of that, it's hard to turn it off or, you know, it's hard to I mean it's it it makes it even harder to sustain that. So um it was a very it was a tough like learning curve over a couple of years. Um but I think it I don't know. I think that finally I was like, okay, so nonprofits aren't inherently better than corporate America.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

But in terms of, and I mean, nonprofits are serving the world's issues, right? Like we are actually working to make the world a better place, but internally that's not always reflected in the prioritization of the employee's well-being of the employee, right? Like, and it's I don't think it's it's rarely malicious. It's rarely like twisting my mustache, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Take advantage of these good meaning people. I don't think it's that, but it's the immense pressure that nonprofits have to spend mission dollars wisely and minimize overhead. You speak very freely about this, like on LinkedIn, for example, about how like nonprofit doesn't mean not compensating people or respecting them. So you learned that lesson. And how is that kind of informing how you're moving forward today then?

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Um, I think exactly like that. I mean, it's being more outspoken. I think also, you know, listening to others. I mean, there are so many amazing voices on LinkedIn and like other social media channels and and um not just social media, but just like people that are producing content and talking about this in public.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

And to that point, Eric, now you're you're working for a nonprofit now in development, right? And you are not only speaking out by posting on LinkedIn or having those conversations one-on-one with people. How is your boldness to do that? Is it impacting your career? Because it sounds like there's some fear that it might. How is that actually impacting the work that you do?

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah, it's a good question. I think I mean I'm very lucky at my current role. My now boss in the interview um was talking and she just kind of offhandedly kind of just said, uh, you know, we may work for a nonprofit, but we don't have to look nonprofit. Um I thought that was just, yeah, I was like, I thought that was like such an interesting statement. And I had never heard um, I don't know, someone say that, especially in a in a nonprofit leadership role. Um and I really respected that. And I thought, okay, this seems like a different environment and something that, you know, would be good for for me. I think it was the first time where I was like, okay, I don't have to be um agreeable in order to do my job well. Like I don't have to be a yes man. Being able to acknowledge when something doesn't work, I think is really important. And, you know, while I do feel very lucky and privileged to be at an organization that I am at, it's also not perfect. Um and, you know, there are definitely tense days. There are days that I got get out of a meeting and I'm like, wow, I should I should have come at that a little bit differently. You know, but we're all human and I think I think we just need to give ourselves a little bit of of grace in that respect, but also be able to call out, like, okay, I'm not being treated fairly, or um, you know, the organization is doing something that I don't agree with. Um, but like that's not my decision. So like I'm here to do my job and and and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

For anybody who's listening to this, going, okay, I feel this in my soul, right? Like I this is where I am right now, or this is where I used to be. Are there any things that you could recommend, whether it be, like you said, elevating your voice on social media, seeing a therapist, right? What are the the best practices that you've learned that help you balance that work-life balance while still serving your nonprofit?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

I think, I mean, definitely my biggest thing that I've come to appreciate is finding community. Um, and that could be anything. You know, the the nonprofit hive is perfect for that. I have found so many connections, not even just through the meetings, but through um their like founder, Tasha and um uh Nicole, like they are amazing at just connecting people. So I think finding a place like that, if you're not in a space or an environment where you feel like that you can uh really connect with with people, finding a space where you can uh and just talking. I think that's just the the most important first part.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, and honestly, that's kind of what I hope to accomplish with a podcast like this and a community like this, which is like, let's all just come together and go, yes, same. Even just knowing you're not alone is something that will help you take that next step, right? To bettering yourself and knowing that, like, you're not broken for feeling this way. You're not ungrateful because you work for a great organization and are yet feeling suffocated. Like, those are all fair things. You shouldn't judge your own experience so harshly. And I know we all do because the people working in nonprofit work are the best humans out there. So they just want to be good humans. So I appreciate you. All the people who are watching this episode that are gonna go now, follow your page and the nonprofit burn book and all those things are also going to appreciate you. More information on the nonprofit hive and the nonprofit burn book are going to be in the description of this episode. Go engage with those things, get a little catharsis in your day, a little connection. Thank you all so much for joining. This is your reminder to prioritize self care. Go drink some water, hydrate. You're doing great, and we appreciate you being here. Thank you guys so much. We'll see you next time.