Creating an Agency Blueprint & Future of Social

In this episode of The Edge of Influence, host Iman Issa, Co-Founder and Managing Partner of North Seventy Five is joined by Mike Khouri, CEO of tactical, to talk about the future of social and Tactical's newly launched report, Build Your World. 

Mike explains why he stripped the agency back from 17 services to three, and how a deep dive into Hollywood's creative systems led to a new methodology built around "effective entertainment" - the idea that social platforms aren't really social at all, but interest-led entertainment engines. 

The conversation covers world-building over trend-chasing, why brands should focus on retention rather than fleeting attention, how cultural lanes and recurring characters build brands over time, and what it actually takes for an independent to define its own DNA.

Production Credits:

Presented by: Iman Issa
Editor: Ian Carless
Executive Producers: Iman Issa & Ian Carless
Produced by: North Seventy Five & Poddworx Dubai

Transcript

Welcome And The Big Question

Iman 0:17

Hello and welcome back to the Edge of Influence, a podcast brought to you by the Alliance of Independent Agencies, Middle East and North Africa and North 75. I'm your host, Iman Issa, and today I'm joined by Mike Corey, CEO of Tactical. And today we're talking about all things social and the recently launched report Build Your World via your team.

Mike 0:37

Thank you very much for having me.

Iman 0:38

So before we get into the details of the report and what it means for how we create social content today, talk to me about the inspiration behind the report and what it means for your agency and its point of view in the market.

Simplifying An Agency To Find DNA

Mike 0:51

I think that's a really good question, good starting point, because we've been going now for about 13 years. And when we started to where we are today, so much has changed, not just in terms of our environment, but even just the way we operate as a business. And how I rewind a couple of years ago, I just felt like we got very complicated in terms of how we operated. Um, we had a lot of services, we had a lot of ways of delivering for different brands and partners. And I just really went on this agenda of trying to simplify the business. So we took the business from 17 services to three. So we do social retainers, social campaigns, and social tech. Social's the core. And I'm a big believer that social sits in the middle of the marketing mix, which is something I can I can expand on a little bit later. But for me, what one of the big things that I was looking at is like, how can we build our own DNA? How can we build something that we are known for and not just a quick fix, something that we can retain and focus on for years to come? And it all kind of started about a year, a year and a half ago, and I I had this sort of aha moment that the platforms that we play on, like these platforms we call social, they're actually not social, they're entertainment engines, and it's all about content. And I said, What where does the best content live? Where is the best content always lived, or not necessarily always lived, but where does it build the biggest reputation? And I took a lot of inspiration from Hollywood and I went deep and tried to study, you know, what are some of the, I guess, the standards, the principles, the creative system that was built in Hollywood. And off the back of that was a big journey in trying to coin and define this definition that we now in how like in house we call it effective entertainment. And it's really just an entertainment stack of how we can build great experiences, great content on social that are recurring, that are consistent, and in ways that Hollywood were inspired to do it.

Iman 2:38

So if you want me to expand on that a little bit more, or no, I was gonna dig into the DNA piece. So there obviously are so many agencies that are currently operating in the Middle East market. And I think when it comes to social as well, there will even be agencies that are competing with us from international markets saying we can do it better, we can create better content, we can give you better strategies. So when you say this is our agency DNA, what does that mean from a methodology perspective? Does that mean that you now have created a new system that you will follow?

Mike 3:07

So I think it's what's what I find really interesting is when I look at how other agencies in the market or even internationally position themselves, everyone's saying the same marketing fluff. And even when you know we had a fast five session with all the agencies and the alliance stepping up and sort of presenting themselves, truthfully, I just felt like everyone was saying they could do everything. And we had that realization a year and a half, two years ago. And I just didn't want to be generic. I didn't want to be gray. Um I wanted to be quite clear on what we can offer, which then means you need to figure out what you're good at. And you have to start saying no to a lot of things, actually. Um, so we that's what we did. We started to set, we started to cut things out of the system. We started to cut admin, we started to cut pain, we started cut things we didn't know how to do really well. Um, and then we started to be able to double down on the things that we thought we could do really well. And that's when I figured, you know, not only in terms of what we sell, we want to be really clear on how we can add value to our partners. But once we, you know, convert that, we want to be consistent in how we deliver it. And creativity is so subjective and everyone has a different perspective on how to show up and be creative. I wanted to make sure that, you know, when when even when we hire people, we know what we're looking for. Even when people come into the system, when we onboard partners, it's it's built on a uh almost like a creative system that we can we can comfortably and confidently deliver on repet on repeat,

What Hollywood Teaches Social Teams

Mike 4:27

basically.

Iman 4:27

So when you're talking to directors in Hollywood or script writers in Hollywood, what are sort of the two or three biggest learnings that you took away that we now need to apply to the world of creativity for social?

Mike 4:40

So, look, ultimately, you know, a lot of marketing is storytelling. Um, and when I looked at Hollywood, I was like, how how do they go about, you know, building these seasons and series and movies and trilogies and daily shows and do it on repeat? And and what I found out was, you know, not only does it obviously follow a very consistent hero's journey, let's call it, but even like the daily show, like how did they how do they show up at jokes every day that were tuned into culture, tune tuned into what was being spoken about? Um, and they just had certain principles, certain routines, certain rituals. And that's that those are the fundamentals that I looked at. Those are the fundamentals I said, you know what, how do we uh attract some of those into what we do as a business? And and you know, whether it's a writer's room or whether it's how we capture and store in uh inspiration or how we how we set a strategy. Um, you know, for us when when we think about where where we want to, you know, we take an idea, it's like the first thing is like, well, how do we make someone feel something? Which is exactly how Hollywood starts. If they want to do a piece of drama, if they want to do some comedy, if they want to do adventure, it starts with how they want to finish. We want to finish with this feeling. So the same thing happens when we want to do brand building and storytelling.

Iman 5:46

And I think if you look at social right now, so much of the content is what I would call swipe passive scroll, doom scroll nowadays as well. So if you're taking this new methodology and you're applying it to, say, a normotive brand or an FMCG brand, how does that make you create better content for them? And what does that ultimately mean to me as a consumer so that I stop scrolling and I start engaging in your content? And I think this probably feeds into the report that you launched, which was obviously Build Your World.

Mike 6:15

Yeah, totally

Retention Metrics That Actually Matter

Mike 6:16

right. And I think the big thing to call out straight away is that these platforms aren't actually social. They're very much interest-led. So they're built for entertainment, which means they want to continue to retain people. And the idea there is that if social sits in the middle, right? So think about how you find out about politics or sports, or you know, I found out about the Knicks because Nike popped up and there was a great piece of creative that, you know, celebrating the win. Think about how you find out about, you know, celebrity gossip or just a meme or what's being spoken about. A lot of it lands on social, and that's because it's tailored and tuned for your interests. So if you want to be able to build that over time, you want to retain rather than just attract, right? When you talk about fleeting and doom scrolling, that's just trying to capture your attention and that's that's very surface level. What we basically, the methodology that we believe in is like how do we retain? So even you know, we metrics-wise, we don't look at you know, likes and views, we look at you know, shares and saves. Like, how do we how do we retain people? Because the beauty of how these algorithms are now built is that once you've pulled people into your world, the algorithm retains it for you. So the algorithm will continue to feed you more of the same content that interests you. So really the hard work is actually trying to pull people in. And once you're there in in in retaining them, it's a lot more um, yeah, just a lot more of a process of consistency.

Iman 7:30

So taking that approach, if you were to start working with a new CMO or a social lead, what is the journey they're gonna go on? And how do they start having to behave to attract people, to pull them in, to have that sort of Hollywood mentality of it's not just a platform anymore, you're here to entertain. And that the best content is going to go viral or sustain momentum or pop up into my feet if you're entertaining me. So, what is the advice that you're giving out now?

Mike 7:58

So it always starts with where do you want to go? And I think there's there's this been because of the nature of how even marketing's been under pressure to perform, it's become very short-term, very short-focused, right? Short-term focus. So it's like there's no real clear direction in terms of where the brand wants to be in three years. And and the role of social can actually help them get there. Again, like I said, I believe social sits in the middle. And if you're going to build a strategy, it's like where depending on where it's going, shouldn't it dictate on how you build the franchise that allows you to tell the story to get you there. Um, and it's part of that stack, and this is what we talk about a lot in the report, is if we're clear on what that surprising truth, that tension, that um point of view that you know you own in culture, that we call it a cultural lane, you can start to can commit to the things that will make you stay true to that and say no to the things that will pull you away from that. So a you know, a beautiful example of that is liquid death, right? Liquid death tells you exactly what they're for. They're in an overcrowded, you know, category of water, but they don't come across as a water company. Same thing with Duolingo, same thing with um even more locally, same thing with like an Emirates, right? Emirates is is very clear on their positioning and the characters that show up very consistently are the cabin crew. So they've got a very clear cultural lane of where they want to own and where they want to go. And then they're just constantly investing in almost franchises and content stories that repeat that help build the brand over time. So it's not just a one and done, let's chase a TikTok trend. It's very much a okay, so if the characters of our show are the crew, not just in terms of you know bringing a celebrity to do a safety video, everything from the safety video to the ads to everything is the crew. And it sets a standard, it sets an impression that that recurs. And that's what I think CMOs are missing at the moment is they're just using it as a dumping ground, they're using it as an extension. So it does come across as a one and done. But for Nike, anytime there's a sporting moment in culture or a cultural moment in sport, I should say, they show up. And and that's been trained over time. That's not just a one and done, that's been built over years and years and years.

Iman 10:00

I think part of the complexity for brands right now is that we live in an era where we are constantly expecting people to entertain us. We expect every campaign to move us, to entertain us, to make us behave in a particular way. And I think for CMOs right now, if you're sitting there saying I need to entertain people all the time, do you not think that puts a lot of pressure on them when you need to have a degree of always on content?

Mike 10:27

I just think that's marketing. And and an interesting thing, I've got a quite a person's perspective that is there's a parallel with finance, right? Like if you were to sit in front of a CFO and say, How do you invest? They'll be like, Well, I just do ETFs, I don't day trade. But funny enough, the CFO wants pressure on performance marketing rather than investing in brand, which is counter to their own even like mindset, right? Um, but if you're investing in the long term for brand, it's about showing up consistently. And some things will work, some things won't work. But as long as there's consistency, you keep pulling the brand back in, right? So if you look at OND's, if you look at a Huda Beauty, you know, there's a consistency in what their brand impression is, and it and it's not for everyone all the time, and that's fine. It's fine to stand out and and not be for someone. At least you draw a line in what you you are for versus not. And and sometimes those bets, those investments that you make for you know uh a campaign or or a piece of content pay off, and other times they don't. But if you keep showing up over time, it will come good.

World-Building For MENA Destinations

Iman 11:29

So let's pivot ever so slightly. If we were to take this new approach and this new model and thinking about where we are right now here in the Middle East with some of the challenges of the market, it obviously is a market, especially if you think about Dubai and Abu Dhabi, it has a big fan base in terms of visitors. How would you start to apply this to more of a destination perspective if you are a brand that's looking to attract people back into the market, using social as a world of experience, of entertainment, all those different things that you've mentioned?

Mike 12:00

Yeah, I think, look, I think the definition of entertainment can be a little bit um one-sided, like people think it's viral, funny, whatever. But Louis Vuitton gives you entertainment, it's just dramatic. Red Bull gives you entertainment, that's just adventure. And and Visit Dubai does entertainment, but it's reality TV. So whether that's UGC experiences that they're celebrating the community with, or they're they're showing you sides of Dubai that you maybe didn't know, that's how they they have an opportunity to build trust, right? So I think there's an opportunity for sure to re-reposition the world of our region to the wider world. And in our world building report, we talk about how that sort of structure goes together. In the case of, say, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, even Saudi Arabia, there's not only just very different storylines, but very different characters that come to life, right? Whether that's from leadership all the way down to community, whether that's destination experiences like hotels or tourism hotspots, each have their own um storylines that can be threaded to show the wider world that not just that the the there's the story of Dubai and Abu Dhabi and Saudi continues, but what's seen on the virtual world is very different to what's happening actually on the ground. So there's a reframe that's there potentially, and and defining that world clearly allows for those storylines to thread through, not just for the city, but also for the people and the brands that work within it.

Iman 13:25

From a client perspective, right now, when you're looking at an agency and choosing an agency and potentially trying something new, what is the journey that the client has to go on to embrace a new approach and a new methodology? So if we're saying to a client in any space, you need to be thinking about worlds and characters and culture and moments and how you show up for you and your agency. What do you have to do now to take them on that journey to make them feel comfortable with trying something new?

Mike 13:53

Yeah, and I think that's it, right? It is a bit of a reframe. Actually, it's a massive reframe and it's a big bet. But the the truth is that, you know, when we see RFPs come in, they could have been sent in 2017, 2018. They've just been recycled. And that's because maybe they people don't know better, maybe they don't want to take the risk, maybe they haven't been shown an alternative. But fundamentally, it is a reframe. It is a reframe from saying, okay, we want social first or we want a social extension to actually know social sits in the middle. So if you think about the best billboards you've seen in the last five years, chances are you actually haven't seen them in person, you've seen them online. Even PR, even events, etc., like a lot of that lives on social. You might not have been to Middle Beast in Saudi Arabia, but you've seen experiences that happen on social. And I think there is a reframe of okay, not only just does social sit in the middle, but you know, it's actually not social, it's content. And then how do we tell that the stories of content? It's not actually about just getting attention, it's about retention. And then how do we measure retention? It's not views and likes, it's you know, shares and saves. So there's there's quite a few things to reframe, but that's what we see the best, the best people on the internet doing. And I'm not just talking about the best brands, I'm talking about the best creators. You look at Mr. Beast, you look at Huda Beauty, you look at any significant creator, and creators have built massive businesses, billion dollar empires, Gymshark, et cetera. They built it by understanding how these entertainment platforms work and then use it to build a business around it. Whereas the opportunity for brands is they they have the capacity, they just need to reframe how they get get about it. And that's that's that's something that this whole report talks about, but also how we work with our partners, we workshop together to show them that new world that they could be entering

A Three-Year Plan To Differentiate

Mike 15:32

into.

Iman 15:32

So we've covered quite a lot. So we've covered everything from the fact that there are so many agencies that operate right now in the Middle East. We've talked about how you create a DNA, how you go away and you know, pull a thread. So in your case, obviously, it's been entertainment on social, understanding that these platforms are designed for us to be entertained. And then for your agency, you've gone away, you've investigated it, you've spoken to people Hollywood directors, and as a result of that, you've created this almost new approach from the world in which we inhabit and how almost everyone becomes a player in that. If you are an agency today, whether you're an independent agency or a more established, mature agency, and thinking about the fact that our identities can merge, almost look quite blurred, the same thing. What advice would you give to another agency leader right now to say, this is what you can learn from the process that I've been through? And this is how you create your own almost DNA that your team can then adopt and follow and then actually create a new way of advising clients?

Mike 16:34

Yeah, look, I think it's it's different to different businesses, right? Like given your experience, you've gone from big network, you're able to start something fresh because you see all the pains and and opportunities that you could do something differently. Whereas we were on a you know, plus 10 year journey and you just accumulate, you just add, add, add, add, add. You want to chase opportunities, you want to add clients, you want to, you want to add to your portfolio, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Now, when you keep adding, you get to a point where you just become really bloated, really unclear, and and really quite unfocused, like there's no focus really on where you're going. You can say that this is the objective and this is what you want to do, but it's just just doing more of the same, which is adding. I've had this question from a few people saying, like, how did how did that journey start? And it started from a place of realizing that it just got way too complicated. We didn't have a differentiation in market, we didn't have a differentiation in terms of what got us excited. So we just I started making a list of things that I really just didn't like, didn't like in the business, didn't like in the industry, which is a pretty, pretty painful path to go down because when you start doing that, especially when you're doing it on your own, you realize there's quite a lot of things that you want to change. And that's quite a daunting exercise. So I for me, I had to get to that threshold of saying, I need to do this.

Iman 17:42

Can I ask a question? Yeah, how long did it take? So if you had this almost moment where you're going, something has to change, it's it's too much, it's too big, it's too complicated. I need to rethink the agency model, pivot, define what we're doing. And then you go on this journey of discovery from that moment to where you are today, where you now have a new blueprint for how we should be doing things, a clearer point of view on the market. Is that six months? Is that 12 months? Is it 18 months, or is it even longer or shorter?

Mike 18:16

It took us at least a year. It took me at least a year. Um, and it starts because you have to realize what you want to remove before you start being clear on where you're going. So I'll I'll use an analogy of the like of fitness, right? You you don't just get fit by going to the gym when you're eating McDonald's. You have to cut the inputs that are toxic to the environment as well. Um, so you sleep earlier, you eat better, you et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Those things, when you remove that complexity, frees you off for simplicity. So that's what we had to do. We had to start saying no to business, even though we wanted to chase that business. We had to start saying no to things that maybe made us money before, but we just didn't see the return, not just in terms of financial investment, but just even like personal gratitude on the work that we're doing there. So we had to start saying no, and that's a really hard place to start from. But as we start to remove the admin, remove the friction, remove the pain, then you start building momentum. And it's not just a personal momentum, it's also like a business-wide momentum. And don't get me wrong, we're far from where we want to be. But we said that instead of doing a you know, a new pivot or uh adjusting the business every year and feeling the pressure of having to have a business plan for the next year's sprint, we just said we want to do this over the next three years and and just gave ourselves year one to look at and be like, okay, we need to reorganize the business, things that we need to remove, things that we need to um question whether they need to be there. Year two, being really clear on the focus, which is where we are actually right now in that second year of like this is exactly what we want to double down on, hence, hence the report, hence the the things that we're doing today. And then year three is where we feel like we can really drive that momentum and feel like we have a sense of ownership. So we've not put the pressure off we need to figure this out in six months. We've said it's a three-year journey, but it could be longer to remove things. But that that's that's the place to start. It's like, what are you saying no to? And that's that's the the hardest thing, but also the most fulfilling thing to get into that point.

Iman 20:05

I guess the other thing I would ask is the research and the number of people that you had to talk to to get your thinking of this new methodology. So, how many people did you have to talk to? Because I think one of the things that I've noticed is having come from a larger agency environment, you get given the blueprint, you get given the methodology. But if you're sitting here as an independent and you're having to recreate it, you know, what's that time and investment look like? Is it sort of a one-off conversation? Is it independent reading? Is it hiring an advisor? You know, if you're going to advise someone in that process, where do they start?

Mike 20:41

Yeah, don't hire an advisor. The product is the business plan. What I realized, I go just way too far from the product. So I started going very deep, not necessarily just on the work certain teams are doing, but also what the industry was doing. Um, that gave so the work we were doing, I saw where the pain was, getting really close to our partners again, understanding where their pain was, and then seeing the wider industry and where that was at, and realizing what the gaps were that we can move into. And that's not just gonna be one conversation. Um, that's not gonna be something you can outsource. That's a very personal journey that you need to go down. And if you think some consultant's gonna come in and care as much as you do to change your business, it's absolute absolute bullshit. Like you have to go in there, go deep, feel the pain, feel the pain of your team, you know, submit those, like submit those deadline, uh, those proposals on the deadline so they know what it feels like and be like, actually, why the fuck are we doing this? Don't do that, get rid of it. Actually has no value. Why are we why are we bringing that pain into the business? Then realizing the same for your partners, then realize the same for the clients, and then you'll see the patterns, and then you'll be like, Why have I been operating this way all this time? So yeah, it's it's it's that's why I say it is it is a it does take time to get to that point, and it depends how deep you go into it from the get go. But for me, like I just had to drive that change. Um and you know, I went as all in as I could, but also realized I still had a business to continue to move.

Iman 22:00

Great thing for other agencies to learn is A, the time and investment it takes, but B, it's not a sprint, right? You're sitting here saying this is a three-year plan. So whilst social is a really fast moving space to operate in, of which there is innovation and change happening all the time, by developing a point of view, a new way of looking at it in terms of like the world, the entertainment factor, it allows you to move through your transformation at a pace that is manageable to you. And I think there's a lot that agencies and teams and talent can learn from in that

Timeless Principles Over Trend Chasing

Iman 22:34

regard.

Mike 22:34

Yeah, look, I think two things on that. One is like what are your incentives? Like my incentive is to keep building. I want to keep building. You know, if you're maybe from coming from a network, your incentive is a PL, it's a spreadsheet. And and getting to the end of year doing certain, you know, expectations or having to take actions if they if you don't meet them, right? So my incentives are very different. Secondly, when it comes to you talking about the speed of change, like I I ask myself, so what's what's never going to change or what hasn't changed? You know, the principles of marketing haven't changed since your Claude Hopkins or David Ogilvies or the world, you know, realized what worked. Um, we just haven't studied that and haven't practiced that. Same thing, you know, when it comes to entertainment, there's certain principles of entertainment or effective entertainment that are just true and constant, yet you get, you know, you get distracted by the glitz, the the shiny bright lights, and and to your point, the doom scrolling. And that's that's not that's never worked. So why would it work today for a long time? So you can either chase your tail and follow those TikTok trends and follow your your your latest update to an app, or you can be like, what are the things that never change and how I how do I commit to that? And that's exactly what this world-building mindset is is like how do we build this over time? It's not gonna be a one and done, it's not just a one post, it's not just a one campaign. It is something, okay, we're gonna build this over time. And when you look at brands, whether it's a Gymshark, whether it's a Huda Beauty, a Mr. Beast, or a Nike, uh Wendy's, uh, Duolingo, they build that over time.

Iman 24:02

I think the thing I really like about the report is you can take your approach and it gives you an ability to operate in a fast-moving world and still capitalize on the trends, but in a way that's meaningful to your brand. And that I think is something that everyone should learn from is you need to create an approach and a strategy that gives you a long-term point of view so that your fan base, your followers are constantly there and have an expectation of you, but that you can also then have those moments of fame when there is a trend or a cultural moment that matters to you and the people who are following you.

Mike 24:39

Yeah, totally. And I think it is bringing that calm to a chaotic environment. There's there's only going to be more and more and more content as the world continue to get continues to get more, you know, enabled. But also, like, there was a moment once where we were we were sort of having a brainstorm in or what we call a writer's room. And someone said to me, like, it would be just really cool if we did this thing. I was like, what the fuck does that mean? Like it's not cool just to do something, it has to be in line with a bigger picture. Uh and that's when I realized, like, we have to have a better way of how we do that.

Iman 25:08

But I think that is what so many people are guilty of. And I think that pressure to hijack a moment, to capitalize on a trend, it brands are always going to be guilty of getting involved in it because they might have a moment of fame. It doesn't mean that they're going to be remembered in six months' time, but for that one moment, their teams feel like they succeeded and they have something internally to show for. And I think it's also for internal teams on the client side to realize that that kind of clear approach will give you consistent wins over time.

unknown 25:39

Yeah.

Mike 25:40

And look, I think truthfully, like as an industry, globally, creatives have got lazy. They, they, they eat junk every day by just like scrolling through feeds and thinking, hey, this worked for this person, we can just jump on this trend. That's that's lazy behavior, that's lazy creativity. And I think if you can, if you can also try and cut those bad habits out and again encourage the right inputs, um, which could be it's a very clear agenda on how we want to build this world. So it's very really clear what we're saying no to. So when someone does have an idea that they just want to TikTok and said, hey, that would be cool, well, actually, does it add any value? Is it actually pushing us closer to that destination that we want to get the brand to and building this world? If it doesn't, then nah, it's a silly idea.

Closing Thanks And Credits

Iman 26:18

Yeah, I I think I love this approach in general. And I think there is so much to be said for what your agency's doing and the report. And I think clients will definitely get a lot of value from it. And, you know, so would other people looking for some inspiration in what is potentially a very chaotic world right now. Um, so Mike, thank you so much for your time. It's been really fantastic chatting to you, and hopefully we'll get to catch up again soon.

Mike 26:40

Amazing. Thank you.

Iman 26:43

The Edge of Influence was brought to you by the Alliance of Independent Agencies, Middle East and North Africa and North 75. The executive producer was myself, Iman Issa, and the producer was Ian Carlos. And this podcast was produced by North 75 and PodWorks Dubai.