The Zawiyah Foundation Podcast
The official Zawiyah Foundation Podcast: an audio repository of past lectures from Imam Fode Drame.
Imam Fode Drame is a teacher, prolific author, linguist, Quranic Exegete, father, international speaker, and at the forefront of a number of community initiatives. He established Zawiyah Foundation in Vancouver, BC, in 2005, a non-profit charity founded on his vision for humanity.
Imam Fode's work -- whether through his foundation or his writings -- is particularly concerned with providing the building blocks for the construction of the human character, the foremost among the subject matters of the Glorious Quran.
The Zawiyah Foundation Podcast
Traveling with Light - Class 4 of 5 (The Birth and Growth of Iman)
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Lecture 4 of 5 on The Birth and Growth of Iman - Gambia July 2025
Alhamdulillah bin alameen Muhammad and Nabi alone wa ala a Alihee Al-Sahbiheen Kasia. So yesterday we spoke about having a light and then going out and walking working with light. Walking with lights and spreading peace and helping those who are in need of help. So we sort of used the story of Al-Khadur and Sendamusa as an example of what it really looks like having a light and being able to use that light to be of service to humanity in general from saving the ship. And we also emphasize that this service is always to the benefit of those who are either they are oppressed or they are wronged or they are helpless. So in other words, they use their strength to help those who are weak and their knowledge to educate those who are ignorant and their wealth to fulfill the need of those who are in need of help. So that's the the theme of yesterday's drug from Shufi Manakiha Ukulumi Rusrihi travel in the various horizons of the earth and eat from the provisions that God has spread out across the earth. Like the the way the birds every day leave their nest and they travel around. And they eat from the risk of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala that God has provided for them. So anyway, yeah, so the journey of the two was meant to be a journey, not just traveling around just to sightseeing, but having a meaningful travel, a travel that produces real benefits, not just yourself, but to uh whoever your path crosses. So we saw the story of Al-Khidr as he saved the ship of the Mesquines and the parents against the Tyrannical child and the treasure of the orphans who are still very minor, and their treasure that was their heritage, so to speak, will be lost if the wall, the mark, that the wall that marks the place of the treasure, it falls down. So automatically Al-Khedr was of help to these three categories of people. So that's one example. So it's in the same spirit, but probably at a different level. Maybe at a on a larger scale, so to speak, than that of Al-Khadr. Because also a ruler with more influence. So with the ability to impact more people in a positive way. But the same same theme. Guidance is what is what refers to Iman. So we spoke about that already. In the Torah, the Fiha, Huda Wonu. We gave Musa the Torah, there is guidance and light. And we gave Jesus the gospel, and there is guidance and light. Guidance and light. God will raise those who have Iman and those who have knowledge, even many, many more ranks. So Drukharnin's journey was at a at a much higher level. It was still a journey. Journey that was not again for just traveling for entertainment. And that is that is fine if that comes by itself spontaneously in the course of your travel. But that should not be an aim. And uh God tells us from the beginning of the story that he was one who was endowed with knowledge, endowed with uh a light that by which he can tell what is false from what is true, by which he can anticipate uh harm before it arrives. That anticipation is important before it arrives. Because that's part of having no to be able to anticipate uh a danger before the danger arrives. So that that that feel that ability to feel a danger coming before it comes, that's what is expressed ashina, ayur hiqauma, to riyanam wokufra. We had this premonition that is going to oppress the father, the parents, so it's khashia. Soin definitely was endowed with uh similar tools and knowledge and mercy as Al-Khadr. But as a different, the impact is much bigger than that of Al-Khadr, because Al-Khadr was targeted very isolated individuals. But here, Makkanna Lahufil Art. Wa atina who mean could ask you about says I'm going to give you a reminder about him. In na maqan lahufilad, we have empowered him on the earth. So that is quite a different uh scenario from that of Al-Khadr. We have empowered him on the earth. Tamkeen. And we have given him a means to everything. Given him a means to everything. So the scope of his knowledge and and mercy is much larger. Give him a way to everything. In other words, we gave him a key to everything. Faatiba Sababan, Mahriba Shams, then God talks about his also his journey, his travels. So the theme of traveling is important. And once somebody is given all these tools, what do you do with it? You sit down and so he also went on his on his travels. But his travels are much further and wider than that of Al-Khidr. And said that Musa alayhim. So he followed a way. I mean, he's guided by a light. And this and the light that he was following led him to the setting place of the sun. So here he's not talking about uh east and west. It's talking about the rising place of the sun and the setting place of the sun, which does not necessarily mean east or west. He found the sun that was setting in a murky water, in a murky substance. But what water does not always mean water as we know it. Any any substance of some sort. So he found the sun uh dipping into this murky water. Sun is bathing itself in this in this substance. Taurufire any hamir. And close to this source, this murky water, this source of the murky substance. What they call the black matter. What are the end of her coma? In the environment of this murky water source of fountain, he found a people. So it was populated by Kowman. We don't know what kind of people they are. It is up to you to punish, it is up to you to be for to forgive. So that that is the extent of his authority that God has given him. He gave him uh to to do as he wished. So it's sort of very close to what we what we read in the story of Sena Suleiman, also, one of the also few people who had a very extended kingdom, dominion. God said to him, this is something we have given unto you. Give if you want, our amsik, or hold back as you wish. And there's no reckoning. We will not ask you questions, why did you hold back or why did you give? So the story of Dul Khanin here is very similar in a similar vein. Allah said to him, either you punish if you see fit, do so. You don't have to be accountable if you do so. That is quite a very high level of um high level honor from Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. But of course, will not be someone, somebody who has that type of knowledge, will not abuse his power and punish the innocent and and let go of one who deserves punishment. So he said, Whoever does wrong, we will punish them. And when he goes back to his Lord, when he goes back to Allah, Allah will deal with him accordingly. But whoever believes and does without deeds, then we will reward him. So that is what he did and at in that place, among those people. In other words, he was he established justice. It's not just helping one individual, he is organizing a whole judicial system among a people. As I said, that his uh scope is much larger than Al-Khadr. It's more at the level of a Khalifa. So therefore, he established justice in that place and then he carried on with his travels. So Mahatbah Sababan, he followed the way and he's following, he's following a light. He was guided by a light at Ta Iida Balkamatli Ashams until he reached the rising point of the sun. And again he found the soul. He is he is going, he's following the path of the sun. The path of the sun. He followed the path, the sun until the sun reaches the setting point. He followed the path of the sun until the sun reached the rising point. The highest point. So that verse, of course, has from a long time has given rise to a plethora of explanations. What does it mean that these people have no barrier between them and the sun? So there are so many wild interpretations. They say they are people who uh they are primitive, they they have no houses, they live in caves and and things like that. And um and therefore the nighttime they hide in their in the in the cave. Sorry, daytime they hide in the caves. They have no clothing, nothing. So at night time they come out. So many, many, very, many wild interpretation. But the meaning is it's very plain. The right interpretation. These are people who God has allowed all the verse in the Quran will explain. That's why we say that the Quran explaining the Quran instead of explaining from your own ideas. So use another verse of the Quran to explain, elucidate the meaning of another. This is the most safe way of interpretation. So these are people who have no veil between them and the sun. That means the sun, light, uh, hits them directly. That means there's no distance between them and the sun. As you know, we are here very far away from the sun, and still the heat of the sun uh affects us very, very well sometimes very adversely, even though it's so far away. Imagine that if there's we are just right under the sun, and there's nothing between us and the sun, no distance, no atmosphere, no, no layers of heavens, no. So that's definitely a people who are very special. That's what he's saying. These are people that whose sunlight cannot affect. It does not does not bother them. There are people whose spiritual state is very strong. Direct impact of the sunlight does not have a negative effect on them. That's what they are saying. Tatul wa cow means so there's no veil, there's no hijab on them. Because people who are in possession of the light of God, the sunlight will not affect them. So the another ayah that explains this is I and Surah to Alfurkan. Wallah says, Alamdulla ila rabbi from a dadilla or lahu sha la jalahu sakinan some jannah sham sali hidalila summa kabadnahu Ilaina kabda yesera. Then do you see how your Lord extends the shadow? Uh if he so wills, he will make the shadow be still. So mayal na shamsali he dalila. And then we will make the sun zoom on the shadow. But the shadow here is a metaphor for the soul before it is enlightened, so it's a process of enlightenment. From the shadow uh moving constantly into becoming still. So the travel is sort of in the same, is following the same steps. The night time, that's why the setting point of the sun, and then the daytime, the rising point of the sun, and then eventually the uh elevation of the soul, lifting of the soul. So majal nashams alayhi dalila, and then when we put the sun directly on the soul, so first is the soul is becomes still uh by means of sakina. Allah sends the sakina on the soul, and the soul is still, and then the sun after the sakinah comes on the soul, and then you know bathes the soul with its powerful light. That's how that's how enlightenment takes place. And then when that is done, then God will lift him onto us, a gentle lifting. So that's what explains the story of the U Kharnain. So Matli Ashams is talking about the resuming of the soul, of the sun, and these people to benefit them with light and not to harm them. So the way we see the sun, there is seeing the sun from behind the veil and seeing the sun without the veil is two different things. So we see it here from because behind the veils, many, many veils between us and the sun. So we see it as you know, far away, as small, as so. This is the veil. And the sunlight that doesn't come to us, the real sunlight. It is heat and it is healing benefit. We don't get that usually. Because we are veiled from the sun. But when Allah wishes someone to have that experience, he will lift the veil between you and the sun, and the sun will zoom right on you. So ne ha sitra. He found the sun zooming on people for whom we created no veils. So God removed their veils. God exposed them directly to the sunlight before taking them into his own presence. In a way, it's a purification process whereby all your veils are born away. The sunlight just inundates you and washes you in his light. And then you are lifted into God's presence. So that's why we we notice that there's no speaking about in this, in this particular point, God doesn't speak about rewarding and punishment. Because these are good people. There's no room for judge between them because they are all righteous to begin with. So all the souls at this point are righteous people. Allah Kawamin Lam Naj, Allah. So you just mentioned that there are no veil between them and the sun and moves on. So he was there just to witness their state, yeah, and then moved on. He was not there to correct them or to because they are they are good, they are they're in. They are walaf. Then he c he left these people, he continued his his travels. So again, like the story of Al-Khadar, is three in three scenarios. The setting point of the sun, the rising point of the sun, and Hatha either Bala Khabena Sadain. He traveled again until he reached the meeting point of the two of the two walls and Sardain. So this Sardain is also referred to as what we are seen. That's why Yasin and Calv are very intertwined. These two two sad. Sometimes they say that if it is sudden, then it's man-made. If it is sad than it's the it's natural, or vice versa. But anyway, until he reached this point, the meeting point of two walls, two sad. So in Yasin he says that him sadhan, Sadhan. We put a barrier, a wall in front of them, and a wall behind them. So in that case it's two sad. And sadhan from front. So here he does it doesn't mention front and behind, but it talks about two sad, but the same word. Until he came to uh this the between these two said the third explanation about this sad to sabba. So is that all my khalifa who mean a saba evil art? That says, have they not seen what is in front of them and what is behind them of the of the heaven and the earth? So the so the heaven and the earth they kind of form two walls. That is, we call that their axis. It's like a barrier. A barrier that doesn't allow us to exit this wall and go out and beyond. So that's the point he's talking about. So because the earth is behind you, so to speak, behind and below, and the heaven is in front of you and above you. So you are kind of locked between the earth and the heaven. We can get out. Unless, exactly, that's the question now, until unless God gives you an authority. So that's what again we read in Surah Du Al-Rahman. Or jinns and human beings, if you are if you are able to penetrate beyond the boundaries again of the earth and the heaven to go across this boundary, this barrier. So as though this is the escape point that you can escape out of the earth, so that's a way that it can lead you out of the earth and out of the sky, and then reach beyond. So again, at this point, this this crossing point. So it seems that this is the also the area whereby Gog and Magog that what that they are they are stationed, they are also in this zone. This zone between the two barriers. So that's where they are also locked, they can get out. So but within in that area, they always go spread out and and and destroy, you know, other people's lands and and and and and their homes and so forth. So he found a people who are being oppressed, so to speak, by Gogan Magog. They said to Al-Kharnain, Gogan Magog are spreading mischief and corruption on the earth. That you can build another wall between us and them. So beside the natural wall that God has built to hinder people from exiting the heavens and the earth, they want Jil Khanin to build a wall to seal off the space uh inhabited by Gog and Magad. So they so that they didn't come out and destroy other people's land. But again, Jil Khan, as you as we said, his travel was not, he was not traveling because he wanted to uh gather money, make make increase his wealth. That was not his purpose. He was traveling to spread light, uh, knowledge, understanding, awareness, uh, to be of service to those who are in need of help. So these people are suffering from the constant eruptions of Gogan Magad into their lands. No, so they ask him that. They say we'll pay, we'll pay money, we'll pay taxes to you, as they usually pay taxes to rulers, especially the conquering rulers who come and conquer all the nations and impose tax on them by force. He said, No. He said, We said that already. Allah said, Allah said we empowered him on the earth. So he's he he repeated the same. He said, Whatever my Lord has empowered me with is better than what the taxes they're going to pay me. I mean, I don't need your taxes, your tax money. What God has given me is enough. And it's not talking about wealth, he's talking about this ability, this knowledge, this light God has given him. It's worth more than everything. What my Lord has empowered me with is better than what taxes you can you can pay me. All I want from you is manpower. That's very good. I want your manpower. I want your human resources. I want you to help me build for you a wall for yourselves. I want your participation, which is very fair. I'm going to help you. I'm going to help you with the knowledge, with the engineering, but you have to contribute your hard work, your effort. That's a fair deal. For anyone who is watching a jal by na kumwa by na humradma. Help me with your strength, with your physical strength. I'm going to create a ramp. Now this time we sway from the word sad to the word Rajim. Radim is a ramp. Because it's much more difficult to scale than just a straight wall. And then probably he said a long time ago. So uh to when he's what al-Hadid, he said, bring me bar iron bars. So he he put iron bars across the ramp is going his building. Until when with this this place where the Gog and Magog where the they come through. He put the Atta either Balka by Nasad Dane. Then he put the uh the iron bus across to build the ramp. And then when he put the iron bus across, then he melted, he put fire underneath, uh, this this iron bus, and all the iron bars melted and became one solid piece. It's a very wonderful uh technology. And he made it so tall, so high that they cannot scale the ramp. And he made it so deep also that they cannot dig through. For thousands of years, that same wall stands strong. But in we see that in in making the wall, he was able to use all the four elements. Yes. That's why that's why it's it's it's strong. All the four elements. So there was there was iron, which is the corner of Zag. And there was, he said, so they blew on the fire. So that was there was air. Blowing. So there's fire, there is air by blowing, and there is iron bars, and there is the tar, the tar that he poured to make it to make a glue, to make everything stick together. So all the four elements are combined. That's what they mean, using your knowledge, because he has God has given knowledge by which by which he can see find solutions to problems. And then the world was the ramp was done. So must uh they were not able to uh climb over it, or mustatahuna, they are also unable to dig. So there's a hadith that tells us that every day they they they don't stop trying. Every day they try to get out, every day they they come and dig. So that's their best bet. They think that they can dig out and go out. So they will dig and dig all night, exactly, not daytime. Because daytime when the when the sun comes up and the sun shines on the wall, it becomes very also very, very bright. Because blindingly bright, so they can't get close to the to the to the wall at daytime. So they are they can only come at nighttime to dig. So they dig at night, and but before they finish digging to get out, a sun rises and they let go. They say, okay, tomorrow we come back. And we dig, we we we we continue digging, and when they come back, then everything becomes as before. The kind of the world is its self-remediating wall as well. It builds itself back as though nothing happened yesterday. So they start all over again. They keep digging like that. Until when Allah wants Allah wanted the world to end, Allah wanted them to come and invade the earth, which they will do eventually at the end of time. So they will come and dig as usual at night, and when they when it's about daylight, they'll say, Okay, leave it, we'll come. We'll come again and continue this night, inshallah. So they say, Inshallah, and then the world doesn't build back. And the world doesn't build back. So when they come in next night, it's where they left it. So they will dig and then out. They come out, and that's when that's that's that's when Senna is already here on the earth when they come. So that story is long, insha'Allah can continue tomorrow morning with that.