The Cost Of Mediocrity

Mediocrity does not usually destroy a business overnight. It does it slowly, through tolerated excuses, unclear expectations, emotional decisions, and leaders who would rather keep the peace than tell the truth.

In this episode, Greg Gillepsie, third-generation owner of Dixie Nutrition, gets honest about what it actually takes to build with family, buy and sell businesses, and make decisions that other people may not understand. From buying out and successfully scaling a family-owned natural food store to acquiring a supplement company and buying and selling a laundromat, Greg has learned that boring businesses are often the ones quietly winning because they are built on discipline, cash flow, and systems instead of ego.

We talk about the tools that make hard leadership possible: employee handbooks, job descriptions, positional contracts, clear roles, and standards that apply to everyone, including family and friends. Because when leaders avoid accountability to protect feelings, they do not protect the business. They paralyze it.

This conversation is about private wins, calculated risk, uncomfortable decisions, and the cost of letting average people, average standards, and average thinking stay too long. Hard days in business never fully go away. The question is whether you become strong enough to operate inside the discomfort or whether mediocrity makes the decision for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Take the damn risk. And that's why financial clarity is so important. Because once you have that, there's no excuse. You are literally your only excuse.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Keep going forward. You're gonna get 10 times going forward than ever looking back at like you can't change it, right? It's done.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Don't fear failure, fear mediocrity comes to my mind. Because I know in my head, I'm like, well, there ain't no way I'm failing.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Every good idea was started out as someone saying, That's dumb.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Greg, genuinely, I'm really grateful that you set aside time to come and pod with me today and dive into business ownership as a whole. This podcast, it's really important to me that we focus on really peeling back the layers and breaking down the walls of genuinely with my experience in business, what I feel as people start to achieve success, they tiptoe around, it seems, or conversations surrounding it start to become a lot more minimal. Because let's face it, we all take a lot of pride in what we own. And we know that nothing tough or challenging or hard comes to stay. At the same time, to admit that maybe we're in one of those challenging times, whether that's financially, physically, emotionally, mentally, or with our people, that it is good to talk about it. And it is good to put it out there because a lot of people are actually in the same boat. But obviously, to some point, we're human beings. We care what other people think. And we want to make sure that maybe we don't say something that three months later or six months later, we've since worked through. But the beautiful thing, and I don't know about you, my failures is what's taught me the most in business and literally catapulted me toward my best ideas, um, the best structure, the best organizational tactics and the operations of, oh, we should have had that, or I didn't see around that corner. And so I would really love to keep it honest, keep it straightforward, keep it blunt on really genuinely how you have been able to achieve what you have achieved and not necessarily all the great parts of that, but also the parts that did challenge you and what you did to continue to show up and ultimately get where you are today. So let's start from the top with that on give everybody some background on really ultimately what led you to choose entrepreneurship and where that's led you today with what you own.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Uh I hey, thanks for having me on today, by the way. Um, I I chose it after I uh going to school and getting through school and working for somebody else while I was doing that, and kind of started to really see the difference between my dad was an entrepreneur as well, and seeing uh like what his life was like and how he lived and what he did and how he did it, and then how it is to like maybe go work for somebody else. But I have always had that drive and that desire. Like it sounds cheesy, but like like when we've talked about stuff like this in the past, I'm like, Oh, yeah, like when I was a little kid, I made cookies and sold them door to door. Yeah, I was like, I guess I did kind of have that drive. I never I you know, I never really thought I did. I'm like, I guess I did. So I just always like that. And to me, it just makes sense. Like, oh yeah, I could do this and then do that. And so the idea of like working for somebody else isn't always appealing to me that way. I just have that desire idea.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Which is interesting you bring that up because I have heard a majority of my life, oh, you're meant to be an entrepreneur. And I never felt that way.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

I knew ultimately that I had what it took, but unless I really had an idea that I could get behind and commit to, then I've always been all about letting other people pay for me to get an education and learn as much as I possibly can. And now it's came to my mind owning the firm, and as I've been scaling it and even helping other companies scale, that I made friendship bracelets, sold them door to door. I made soap and sold it door to door. I needed hats and sold it door to door. And thinking back, it's hysterical because I have two older sisters and we put them in this basket, right? All these different size hats, kids, women's, men's, all these different colors. And my sisters would stand behind me terrified. And I'd be like, Nope, we're going to this neighborhood. The homes are huge, the people are older, they buy. And looking back, I was like nine or 10 years old. My sisters were between 11 and 13 years old. And it was, you hold the basket, you hold the paper. If if they don't buy, basically we're going to come back. And it's crazy now looking back, it's like that was my lead list.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

And that was my product, and that was my pitch. And I was bold calling door to door. And again, you know, you look at the principle. Yes, it's funny and it's cute and whatnot, but you look at the principle of it, the guts to own what you just created. And almost the I don't give a shit what people think. I'm going to knock until someone buys. How come two, three decades later, that would be a bit jaded, right? It's just, it definitely has thrown me into an introspective mindset of what changed. And is that necessarily for the better? Because that drive that I had, it was really honestly, and I've talked about this in previous podcasts. I always saw our dad stressed financially. I feel like he did well, but there was never freedom that I saw. And so it was from a very young age this fear of I want to make sure that I don't end up like dad when I'm an adult in the verse or in the sense of financially stressed. Cause he he seems like how I envisioned it is he seems scared all the time, is how it felt to me. And I don't want to feel that way when I'm an adult. So now thinking back, that's like what drove me to be like, get the basket, get the eight by 11 piece of paper sisters, like stand behind me. I don't know. Like, I wish I could have recorded that and and watched back. Oh, for sure. But that's really cool. Did you really sell cookies?

SPEAKER_01 6:05

I really did, yeah. And and my mom, also, I guess quite the entrepreneur, reminded me that I needed to pay her for the materials that I used to make the cookies. And I was like, No kidding. Paying you, I'm a kid. But but in hindsight, I'm like, oh, that's true. You got to pay for inventory.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Yeah. Well, that's that's crazy. But yeah, it definitely does say something that you always knew you had what it took to develop something, sell something, and scale something. So, what has that led to today? What do you own? What are you proud that you own?

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah, so today um the third generation owner of Dixie Nutrition Natural Food Store. Uh, still own it. I actually solely own it now. It's been family, in and out of family, different family members involved. So now it's just me. Um, two months ago, I bought a supplement company called Grandma's Herbs.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

And so I've known those owners for 20 years, and they kind of love the idea of another like independent guy, you know, really with the relationship. Yeah, and I've known the family. So uh they were pretty selective, I want, I guess, with a buyer because they had a couple other people that they turned down. So I kind of waited to see like if they would go with me. So ended up being pretty cool. I owned I owned a laundromat for 13 years.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

I've yeah, uh, I didn't know anything about laundromats.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

I got you into a laundromat because you are the one who initially introduced that idea to me. And I remember walking away from that meeting thinking, what a genius! What am I doing with that? Like, I gotta find the capital.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

No.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

It's fine. We'll edit a reel where I say that, and then it just pans to you and you're saying thank you.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

But yeah, I remember seriously driving away from that and thinking leverage. Laundromats, in my opinion, are the same as storage units. It's like the epitome of leverage. So, what got you into a laundromat?

SPEAKER_01 7:58

I was not looking for one. And I think part of being an entrepreneur is just having an open mindset of like, yeah, I understand a PL, I understand a balance sheet, I understand business, I can I feel like I can learn anything. And I say that honestly with humility, not like, oh, I'm so great. It's just like I think I can figure this out. And sometimes you're too dumb to know maybe you shouldn't do it, right? But it's that attitude that I think that drives us. Say yes. So I got into it because with the family business, it started with my parents still owned it at the time. Okay. And they were going through a divorce, and they and I thought, man, I gotta, I don't know if I want to be in. I like doing this business. I like retail. I don't know if I like doing it with all of these crazy people. So I was starting to look for a way to exit. So that's why I bought the laundromat. And I had a broker call me and say, Hey, I found this. What do you think about the laundromat? So you went through a broker, though. I went through a brokerage, yeah, and I I said no. I'm like, a laundromat? I'm like, no, and he's like, hear me out. He's like, it checks all your boxes because I gave him a list of what I wanted.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

What would you say are the top three check boxes on there?

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Time management.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Like, does it like is that solid cash flow? Not like, is it making a million dollars? It's a laundromat, but solid cash flow, reliable, time management, reliable, consistent, you know. I'm like, if you find me something like that, let me know. And I thought, this guy's never gonna call me. And he calls me, goes, This checks all your boxes. And I'm like, no way. And then I kind of went, okay, yeah, it does. So I was doing that. Start, I bought that. It was all everything I buy, by the way, is kind of a rehab project. So I like to get deals. So I got it for a really good price. Okay. It was still making money. And in a year, turned it around, and then thought, oh, okay, I if I did four or five of these, you could just keep growing this, and you know. But in in between all of that, we got stuff resolved with the family. And I ended up buying out, you know, uh a bigger interest in the business. And so I still just kept it because it was kind of easy to just run on the side.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

So let's talk about that then, where you did eventually now you're the sole owner of being third generation with this in your family. What was that season like? And maybe for someone listening who would be in your same shoes where they're part of a company or a business that initially started within their family, maybe whether they do or do not, but want to have the opportunity to eventually acquire that 100%. What would you maybe share with them that not necessarily now that you know you would have done it differently because the the way that you did it is what led you to have that knowledge? What do you feel though isn't spoken enough about regarding that whole season of change?

SPEAKER_01 10:35

I think people, I mean, you should trust your family, but I'm not saying not to be distrusting, but it's hard to when everyone just says, we'll figure it out, we'll figure it out, and then you all keep going to work and you realize like I'm the one like driving the boat here, like I'm the one making everything happen, you know. Or maybe or it wasn't entirely me. There's other family members, and then you have maybe somebody who's not pulling their weight, but it's all but it's really hard with family because you go, Well, we'll they say we'll just figure it out. Let's just keep going what we're what doing what we're doing. And then it never gets figured out. So if you're gonna be in business with any, you should treat it like you're going into business with a stranger and you should come at it from that angle. And I think it's okay to do business with family, but you should have a clear understanding of what everyone's expectations are and what their job roles are, that kind of thing. We didn't have that, so it was really, really messy. That's was a real that was a real struggle.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

So how do you feel that differs from someone who maybe started a business with one or two other partners? Because I've seen this happen. And honestly, I'd say I've seen it happen as I've came into the picture where all of a sudden the partners are no longer aligning. And it's because almost when I come in, obviously for a second, we get things really skinny, is what I call it. But you'll hear me say, like an idiot can cut costs. It's not what we're in the picture for. But I do like to get a very clear understanding of what do we really need operationally in order to continue providing what we're doing without sacrificing quality.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

In that time being, there's obviously, we hope, or there's a bigger problem, some cash put away. And that cash, depending on if we need to sustain liquidity or if they already maybe had that locked in and we do need to go ahead and reinvest that so that we're basically not freezing in a safe place, as I would say, that the conversations start to really shed light on genuinely who I feel is like 110% behind the business and would honestly put their life on the line before the business failed. Yeah. And the others who it's almost like those employees who very first started with you before you had systems and processes in place. And as you implement those, they start to maybe get a little perturbed.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Never had that. Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

And sometimes they'll say certain things like, you know, it was easy when I first came on with you. And now we're and one of my favorite sayings is accountable people love numbers because honestly, that's what it boils down to, right? Like sometimes in the trades, the crews don't like having to upload their receipts. Well, same thing. Accountable people love numbers. We got a job cost, we got to know exactly how much operationally cash immediately and net 30 we're investing into each of these projects, who's paying for themselves and who isn't, right? And so it's the same methodology. But, anyways, getting back to the point with family where you say with family, it's different because, and I have heard that, I've heard that with partners before of like, yeah, well, we've just want to get around to it, or I'll keep asking what, where, how, when questions where they can't just say yes or no, or or never asking why, because that leads to excuses, and they just get really uncomfortable in their seats, you know, and they seem to kind of elude that of like, well, we were going to get to it. Well, you haven't. And now we have a much bigger problem. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

So when you're looking at family and partners, where do you feel that there's the biggest difference when it comes to I'm no longer aligning with these people who technically do have a share in the company and do have ownership to some right in the company? Parting ways with owners, sometimes you can look at the operating agreement or you can restructure it and that kind of does it for you. And then you know this is a course of action if we want you out of the business or you want out.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Where do you feel then it changes or there's another layer with family?

SPEAKER_01 14:25

It's tricky with family because I where that changes, I feel like, is you always feel like that, like they're just gonna see your side of it, or you're gonna be in step with them all the time. And then maybe they're really not.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

That's to me where I feel like that's very valid. You look at it differently with a partner. It's it's it's I feel like it's way more removed. With family, it feels like it's gets a little blurry. Or you're willing to be like maybe overlook that partner who's a family member because you're like, well, you know, they're family, it's okay. Like they're you they're they're gonna come into line with my vision or whatever. I feel like that's where you get a little blinded, maybe to some.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Yeah, what you touched on as far as like you said, having responsibilities listed out, having jobs clarified. What would you say are tangible systems and processes that you've implemented that have helped draw a line? And if we're thinking of like football, the boundaries where you're welcome to make whatever plays you want within the business to help us achieve what we're after, family or stranger, right? Or brought in outside of family. But these are the boundaries. And if you step outside of those, you are held to the same standard basically as anyone else. What would you say are like tangible workflows or processes that you could literally go to your business and pull out today to show me this is how I've avoided that?

SPEAKER_01 15:42

You're gonna laugh, but like just having an employee handbook because we didn't have one.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Very true.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Or a work contract.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Yeah, positional contract.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Yeah, positional contracts, job agreements, job just detailed job descriptions. It seems silly. Like, yeah, doesn't everyone have that? Or like, you know, and I have a friend who's owns his own company and he'll call me once in a while or something. I go, what does your you know, employee habbook say? I don't have one. I'm like, dude, that's your first thing to just kind of let everyone know these are the rules of the game, these are the boundaries. So uh and then and then you get more detailed processes, right, and stuff as you go. But start with that.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

Where did you learn to put those together? Did someone teach you that? Did you read a book? What initially led you to grasp the idea of positional contracts? Because yeah, you're right. It's like an employee handbook, everyone has them. No, they don't. They're way too lazy to put one together, and they're even more lazy to stay on top of it.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

It takes time. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

So a lot of the time that's consulting driven. And I honestly sour at that because it's extremely recycled, and it does strip a lot of authenticity. Where I do feel being like, here's a system, it's worked for whoever, you know, whatever they want to do it in their sales pitch, implement it. It's does that reflect your culture? Does oh, see, I made this mistake. So I'll just use this as an example. An action coach, they had something called a wiffle, what I feel like expressing. And so when we were an action coach, we'd go around a circle regardless of what meeting we were in, and you gave every single person 30 seconds to say what I feel like expressing today is. And it could be related or unrelated to business, but we all have a lot going on, and it was a way to cognitively get everybody present before you dove into the meeting. And Brad Sugar swore by it. And I feel like it worked really well because it allowed the quieter employees who never spoke up, you had to participate. There was no option to not whiff. Everybody had to whiff.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

So that was cool because sometimes the people who were the quietest or maybe had been misjudged were going through something really challenging. Or they said something that really put the whole perspective in place for the day, where it's like, damn, you know, why don't you speak up more often? That we want to hear from you more. And so it definitely neutralized the playing field, remove silos, clicks. But also for the very upbeat people who always came in every day and it's just like, damn, do you ever have a bad day and wonder if they're even human? They would use the wiffle to say, you know, they're my mom has just gotten really ill, or I was up all night with my dog. And it helped kind of again neutralize the playing field of maybe we'll give them a little more space today, especially as a leader. Like maybe I won't, I'll wait till tomorrow to follow up on, you know, A through Z. Well, I went to implement this with a steel fabrication company, or no, I went to implement this, it worked really well. The steel fabrication company, they renamed it shindigs. And so they did a shindig every morning. And what the owner felt would work well is what are you grateful for? And that's how the guys were able to buy into it and convey it. But there is an owner of a manufacturing company that I did exactly that. I'm like, okay, right. I was with Action Coach. This is a wiffle, what I feel like expressing, phenomenal. Implement it. Kid you not, he, you know, he's like, okay, really psyched about it. Goes in a meeting, 30, 40 employees. This is what we're implementing. And they literally just looked at him like, dude, you are out of your mind. When the hell in the entirety of us working here, have you ever cared about how we feel? And now we're supposed to go around and be like, what I feel like expressing, like, and so then they started making fun of it, like a waffle or a wiffle or whatever. And he was so pissed about it. He came back and he's like, There, just, you know, clean slate, wipe them all. And I'm like, no, maybe you should go look in the mirror. Because that is a very stark indicator that you genuinely have never taken a second to recognize the person, only what they're capable of providing. And then you multiply that by 30 or 40 people, and you're going to feel what you felt in that room. You're going to feel attacked because they're going to hold you accountable and say, that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

But that's almost how I feel positional contracts are. I've seen a lot of consultants come in, they charge an odious amount of money for information that now you can find online. You can chat GPT it for Christ's sake or use Claude. But the way in which that they present it, it's so black and white to where the principal's phenomenal. But how are you going to get your employees to buy into that? Because it is a contract and that's a heavy word. And I do feel that it immediately um implies to the employee like there's commitment here.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

And there's on yours, do you do OKRs, objectives, and key results, or do you do just responsibilities and results?

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Just responsibilities and results. Responsibilities and results.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Yeah. So again, I feel like it it helps them realize you are being measured numerically and like everybody's being measured. And if you perform well, then we're going to reward you. So where did you grasp the idea of positional contracts?

SPEAKER_01 20:57

I got that from my uncle. Did you? When you asked that, I was like, oh, kind of he kind of mentored me.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

They didn't exactly do that, but they kind of had something similar. Yeah. That I was like, oh, that's I also feel like it's a little bit of job security for your employee, too. Like, oh, a hundred. Hey, like, I know this is what you want me to do. I'm going to do it. You know, there's a two-ish one.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

I would love that you say that. Exactly. Because yes, that's something that I reminded employees of. This is also a parameter for you at any point to hold me accountable and say, without coming off as if it's not my job, like what you've been having me do last three weeks, it just isn't outlined in here. So I was curious, like, is this something that I want to be taking on? Like exactly what you said. It's a two-way street. But positional contracts for me, the importance of them when it comes to family is everybody is playing in the same boundaries. And I've hired family and it's worked out phenomenally well for me. One, I know just because I'm cutthroat and they're probably scared shitless of me. Like, you will fire me and I'll be the first to be fired. And that's okay. But I also No, it's because of how I position them. It's like a sale.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

You know, you're going to have angry customers, you're going to have angry clients if you aren't positioning them very transparently from the beginning. Yep. So with family members, I it's exactly what you said when it's like, oh, they're family. No, there's none of that. It's you are coming into my business. This is my baby. This is how we run things. This is a culture we expect. You abide by that or you're out.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

And yeah, when you know you'll see them again, it makes it a little harder sometimes, but it works. So as far as growth and scaling go, what do you feel has challenged you the most personally? That's something I love to dive into in this podcast is, you know, I hear partners say all the time, oh, they use certain business names or individuals' names as almost like a nonchalant role model. And I laugh because it's no one has a perfect day every day. Happiness is a fleeting emotion. And it's up to you if you put yourself in more environments and around more people that give you more happy moments. But you could tell me a joke and I'm not going to be laughing until nine o'clock tonight. I mean, if I was, that would be a little strange. Like it's a fleeting emotion. And happiness isn't the absence of sadness. And sometimes in business ownership, it's insanely lonely because the people, what I've found that you genuinely would be excited to go share something with and really truly feel would have your back, they're the seriously the first to leave. They're the first to congratulate you. Or when you think that they're going to clap, it makes them uncomfortable with their lack of drive. And then it's almost just kind of like this awkward, like, oh, good for you. And you're just kind of like, oh, thanks, you know? And then you kind of feel silly for like, how come I just shared that? And so I know for a fact there are multiple listeners who would view you as a role model, right? Someone that when I'm where Greg is at, when I've achieved what Greg has achieved as a father figure, as a husband, and as a business owner, then I will. And that's just such a false narrative. It doesn't exist. And so being raw and real and transparent, what has challenged you the most and business ownership in general, Dixie Nutrition, the laundromat, and when we're looking at that largely mentally.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

For me, I think the biggest thing, the biggest challenge is when when to make some of those really big moves and when that time is right, because I feel like nobody I can talk to everyone in the world about it. And like you said, they don't understand, they don't care, they don't see the same gravity of it that you do. And so it's you kind of do feel a little like just out there by yourself, like with your ideas, with these ideas, making these decisions, yeah, and they go, That's dumb. And I'm like, every good idea was started out as someone saying, That's dumb.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

You know, so that's probably for me, it's like just you do feel a little just like on your own sometimes with that. And and if you have a mentor, great. Like that's great to have somebody to bounce ideas off of or a coach, you know, that's kind of kind of a similar thing. But uh, and I was lucky I had that with my uncle. He also ran natural food stores in California for like 40 years.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

So I call him and my aunt.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Do you feel that was an organic relationship where you'd always looked up to him and then and he had mentored you?

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

Do you feel mentors are necessary in business in order to scale and achieve, I don't know, what's generally classified as success?

SPEAKER_01 25:24

I I don't know that it's yeah, I guess I would say it's necessary. I that's hard to say it's necessary, but I think it's I think you're a little crazy not to.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Whether that's a coach or however you want to look at it, mentor, business coach. I mean, somebody to kind of hold you accountable or also to like call and say, I did this and this was good or this was bad. Like, I think it is really good. I mean, I've read so many, you know, you probably you read like every business book and all the other they so many people talk about it. They talk about that. Like, find a mentor, find somebody, but find somebody who you actually can have access to, right? That's accessible, that that knows you or gets you. You can't just, you know, like I could, you know, you might find some amazing CEO of some huge company, but if they don't relate to you or you don't have a somehow a connection, it's like kind of pointless, you know? They can just tell you what they think, but so at least for me, having an actual relationship or or feeling like maybe someone who's kind of gets your same vision, your same thing, I I felt like was really helpful.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Yeah, what I would add to that as far as mentors go, is it boils back down when you said you're alone with your ideas. A lot of individuals that early on I really felt would be very strong mentors, I got talking and moving through all my ideas, and it hit me like I've already outgrown this individual.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Right. And something that I'm so big on is take the damn risk. And that's why financial clarity is so important. Because once you have that, there's no excuse. You are literally your only excuse. And I've had to have that hard conversation with partners where initially, when we come in, like anywhere from probably the first four months, I'd say 15 months, yeah, they have very valid reasons, right? For where they wouldn't make certain investments or investments at all, or do a lot of gorilla marketing or organic marketing. But no, once I'm in the picture and we've skinnyed everything up, I have a crystal clear idea of exactly what we're operating on now, haven't sacrificed quality, purposely deselected people who aren't our core team, brought on some new people who are core team, like really refined things and then understood like it's never going to be perfect. So we're going to just start moving you guys. Like that alone is an excuse of just when we do this, just I hear that all the time with new partners is I just want to see how like the next month or two months. Absolutely not. Like that is an excuse. Like we're we're going because we have the clarity. And now it's the fear of putting your money where your mouth is. And I hit a wall really hard with a lot of people. I'd say three or four. I say a lot, but for me with mentors, like they're selective, right? Those people that you're saying you have access to, they're very successful. It's an organic, curated relationship. And something I love that my therapist told me is because I had uttered to him, I don't feel that really anyone would be in my life, including my spouse, if I wasn't paying them or they didn't make money from me. And that has probably been one of my biggest insecurities in my entire life, is I've always had a really strong gift with numbers and I've always been willing to pay someone's price because you can charge me whatever you want to charge me. And that's exactly what I expect out of it. So we'll have a really big problem.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

It's transactional.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Yes, if I pay you a 300% margin and your work is worth a negative margin, right? Yeah. And that's a footprint that you're creating for yourself to fill. But until then, I will never argue someone's price. And that's actually something a mentor taught me is that you have to spend money in order to make money. Sure. And you have to spend the amount of money you're asking other people. I don't like the word spend, invest. You have to invest the same amount of money into people as you're asking them to invest into you.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Because how awkward is it to attempt to make a sale when it's an investment you've never made and you're like, but you really need this. Oh, really? Like, have you ever made this investment? You know? But, anyways, it was a mentor who told me that. But bringing it all back, yes, I do genuinely feel like with mentors, you also have to be, and I feel this way, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but with really any professional in business, with your accountant, I'm naming the ones that I see the most accountant, financial advisor, and consultant.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Is the the point at which your ideas have now outgrown what they're capable of genuinely mentoring you on. Because again, with a mentor, I remember just berating somebody who I'd really looked up to. And then I found out they weren't necessarily walking the walk. And I basically had made a comment like, it's just all for nothing. Like it's just unfortunate. I really appreciate their advice. And he said, Madison, never hold the person to a high esteem because people are never perfect. Hold their wisdom to a high esteem. And I was like, you know, yeah, like it took a second. Yeah. Okay. Yes, exactly. But that's what I'm saying. Like, I keep going back to mentors. I do genuinely feel like so many little sentences that I've been that have been shared with me in the past, I've used and I use daily, and I'll continue to use. It's a matter of knowing when their value has plateaued for where you want to go.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:41

And vision boards, I swear by. And I used to be so against them, but that is what has always helped me make those massive decisions you're talking about. Obviously, financial clarity. Like, don't be an idiot, right? Like know your numbers and know what you have business investing and know what you have business losing because not every investment's going to pay off. So that's what I love to do with partners is this is the amount of money or we are at the point where this envelope, if we lose it, so what? And I see it a lot with employees where they they're, you know, we got to keep this person so we can give them an extra dollar an hour. I'm like, do you know how much revenue this individual has brought in? Because it might just be the fact that you're losing something. It's not a loss.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

So know the difference. And so you have all that financial clarity, but past that, understand that making big decisions, it does entail losing. And for me, those losses is what's led me to my greatest wins. Yeah. Would you say the same?

unknown 31:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Reminds that little picture we see on people's desks of the lion says, I don't win or if I I don't win or lose, or like if I uh I either win or I learn.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

At least my cousin has that on his desk.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

I mean, I would apically say I failed. Yeah, so you either win or you learn, right? But I learned from it.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

But you learn. Yeah. Yeah. You don't lose, you learn.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Yeah. What would you say is your greatest loss, aka learning lesson in business?

SPEAKER_01 32:07

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

So far. Because we both know we have more coming.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh I think sometimes make uh I'm trying to think of something specific, but maybe not taking in hindsight, maybe not taking, you know, a risk when you're like, man, I I lost on that because I didn't take action. Oh like like I'm like, not a lot of those, honestly, because I'm kind of quick to be like, let's do it. You are, yeah. Like, oh crap, you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

But once a while I'm like, and I should have moved on that quicker. I feel like I I lost on that because I because I didn't take action.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

So what do you feel in the past has held you back from those situations where now looking back, you should have just acted quicker?

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Just not trusting your gut, honestly. Like, man, I I knew, you know, you're like, I knew that was right. I feel like I should have done it. And not just because the thing was a success, but there's times you just feel like you just and that's what's crazy. That's where you're by yourself a lot. It's like, I feel like I need to do this. I have these conversations with my wife, and she's like, no, and I'm like, I'm doing it. And I and genuinely because I feel like it's the right thing to do. Like with a business decision, not with you. She's right about everything else. No, I'm not saying that.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

No, that's what's funny, is I bring that up and I can tell people's faces are like, oh dear, I could never say that. I'm like, okay. Like, I'm not saying just in our relationship in general, it's like, nope, my way or the highway.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Yeah, not that at all.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

But yeah, a hundred percent with business. It's you have this, like, what would you call that? Do you feel like it's I mean, obviously it's a gut feeling, but do you feel like that's passion? Do you feel like that's on my vision board? I have don't fear failure, fear mediocrity. And I know for me, when I make a very big decision and it's truly saying yes and then figuring it out, that drive, even when typically mostly my spouse is saying, I like not necessarily no, but like, have you right? She's the anchor of reality.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

You thought this through? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Is it safe? Is it stable? I'm like, I don't know, I'm making it. I'm doing it. Right. That initial trigger, that decision, genuinely, Greg, I feel like it's what defines successful people who scale and who go massive compared to the people who there's nothing wrong with, but they do stick within what I call that comfort zone of like 700,000 to a million, three to five employees, right? Like maybe for a series A company who's doing 10 to 15 million a year and they're starting to look at maybe potential microacquisitions or getting acquired, they're like, well, that that's baby steps. No, but when you're looking at majority of businesses, yeah, like that's a very comfortable spot for people where it's enough heads for them to manage because they do feel like they're babysitting a lot. It's enough money that they're able to live comfortably, right? Exactly. Thank you. That's a great way to put it. Lifestyle business. It's that ability to be like, not enough yet. Not, and my therapist corrected me on that once. And he said, I just want to make sure that you're not you're not achieving the success that you have to prove someone something. And I just remember kind of looking at him and being like, I'm not, you know. But in a way, do you feel like you like it almost feels in a way of like, I'm going to prove to myself that I can do this? Like that's where that don't fear failure, fear mediocrity comes to my mind. Cause I know in my head, I'm like, well, there ain't no way I'm failing. You're right. So it'll either work out the way I think it will or it'll work out. But if I look backwards, everything worked out. So like, where is your head at after you make those big decisions?

SPEAKER_01 35:40

I I think it comes back to I try not to make a don't operate out of fear. Yeah. Fear-based decision making, right? Like, like you're saying, know the numbers, know the facts, know your stuff. And then you feel conf I feel way more confident in whatever decision I'm gonna do. And then I'm like, well, if it doesn't, if this doesn't work or this doesn't come out the way I want, like I you you're you're okay with that. Like you've done everything you can to understand it and then execute on it to be the most successful you can be. And then after that, I feel like if as long as I gave it everything, and I'm not, but I'm not just doing it blindly or like, oh, uh you know, out of fear, like doing or not doing something. Like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

That's one of the strongest, most impactful statements that I have heard throughout my entire life is never regret what you did, only regret what you didn't do.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Look forward, don't look back.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

That's a big one.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

I used to do, I feel like in the beginning I do that a lot. Oh, dude, that decision, you know, you're constantly like looking over your shoulder. Don't keep going forward. You're gonna get 10 times going forward than ever looking back at like you can't change it, right? It's done. Go forward and make it different.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Isn't that living though? Yeah, like genuinely, that's what's always led me to feel the most alive. And it's not an adrenaline rush, it's not a oh, I love challenges or I'm after a huge result. No, it's seriously for me, is like it's that. It's I'm living, right? I don't know, Greg. I I put myself 30, 40 years from now, and that scares the shit out of me if I were to look back and have one decision because no matter what, we're dying. We just don't know when. But no matter what, we are all going to die. So it's why not? And I remember a gal that's I'm very close to, a close friend of mine, but also I would consider a mentor when it comes to pushing me off a cliff, right? Okay, she's incredibly successful and she's a hundred percent bootstrapped, right? Done it all on her own.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Um, immigrant from Nepal. And her story's crazy, right? But she's done absolutely incredible. And I remember we were sitting at dinner and she said, What is the Nike slogan? I'm like, just do it. And she said, Right. And what's the most important word in that? And you know, all confident. I'm pretty sure I interrupted her. I'm like, do. And she's like, no, it's just. And I really didn't even know what to say. Cause I'm like, huh? You know, it was like so simple that my complex brain was just like, wait, what? But that literally now is on my mirror above my weights in my gym, is just do it. And the amount that I've looked at that statement this year to be like, dude, just do it.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Because it's exactly what you're saying. Look forward and know. Like, don't look back and be like, oh, should I you made it? So like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

What do you feel like in the last year or two years has been one of the biggest decisions you've made that's paid off tenfold that maybe old Greg would have hesitated on?

SPEAKER_01 38:39

Um, hasn't paid off tenfold, but I think buying this other business is really yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

What initially maybe instilled some fear in you on that? What was new about it for you?

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Uh not knowing. I mean, it's it's heavily involved in the business I already run. Yeah. But just not knowing really that there is a totally different side to running that type of business. So that was kind of like just real like I stopped to like really think like it it you know, you overs uh can almost oversimplify it. And then I went, oh, do I really What do you mean by oversimplify? Like you just assume that because it's like in my same industry that like it's gonna like all my connections and people that I know, and I'll just it's just gonna plug in and be no problem.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

I laugh because like I see that all the time, especially at duplicating locations. Like, yes, I know this, I've done it before, and like you just said, the connections, the network.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

This is gonna be just fine. It's like still approach it cautiously. Yes, because it might be different.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

So, what would you say to the listeners when you say approach it, approach it cautiously? I love that because there's such a fine line between like approach it cautiously, but now you're making an excuse to procrastinate. What would you say if I said, Greg, give me your three golden rules of what behaving cautiously is? And then if those boxes are checked, they're now making an excuse. What would you say those are?

SPEAKER_01 40:08

I think fully understanding or taking enough time to fully understand it. So not procrastinating, but deep dive, whatever it is, you know, that you're looking at and doing, and then understanding how it operates, who operates it, um, and how it works. Like to really take the time to understand that. Or look at the look at the, you know, don't just assume that you know what it is, I guess. Whatever it is starting to do.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Because it's an industry, right? Yeah, yeah. Do you feel that people fall into that when they're scaling as well?

unknown 40:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

You go, we're just gonna like cookie cutter, we're just gonna do it and do it and do it. And it's like, it doesn't always work like that.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

No.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

You see it even with big chains.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Yeah, you know, yeah, they close 320 stores.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

It might have been okay and on paper, but the reality is maybe it really, it really well clearly it really wasn't, you know, when they're promos.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

I can't get over that red lobster went bankrupt on their endless shrimp basket. Like that's hysterical to me. It's like, did y'all not do like some looking around corners? And that's a crazy thing, is partners seem to think like, oh, they have it all together. No, they actually don't.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Like, no, they don't.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

That's what I've noticed is the larger the company, the more I know what we're about to get into is sloppier, flat out. There's never ever been a larger company I've gotten into and been like, oh, this is this is a breeze. No, it's typically the smaller ones, and that's lifestyle businesses you called it. That's how come they're there, but they know deep down they want to scale or they ultimately want to sell it and leverage it. So I'm curious what your thoughts are on this. I heard something about six months ago that sticked with me really hard, stuck with me really hard. And it's you don't get wealthy running a business, you get wealthy when you sell a business. What are your thoughts on that statement?

SPEAKER_01 41:55

I think if you build it right, yeah. I think that's very true. I think so. I I look at like what I have now, and I think, and even this new business that I bought, right? I'm like, this will great, it'll be great, it'll make money. My thought though is in like 10 years from now, if I'm to the point that I want to retire, if I'm bored, the like that thing should be worth, yeah, way more selling it than just running it. Yeah, if you build it right.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

Very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Yeah. I feel like a lot of people they become comfortable with the lifestyle and the day-to-day within their business. And so to wrap their head around letting go of it, do you feel at any given point that your business has become part of your identity, or how have you kept them separate?

SPEAKER_01 42:35

I feel I feel like I've done a really good job of not doing that because I watched my parents do that. And I watched like my mom just, it's like that was her whole identity. Like to the point, like if when an employee would leave, she would be upset. And I'm like, mom, they're going to college, like they're not gonna be a cashier forever.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

And she would like bother her that they were le they were leaving her, you know. And I'm like, man, like so. I intentionally have other hobbies and things have have caution, uh not cautiously, I've really consciously tried to make a point to to have other outside hobbies and things that are tied up in it.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

Almost to where it's a part of you, if you think of like fingers on a hand, it's one of your fingers and it's not the palm of your hand. Everything's so what hobbies then do you entertain outside of running a business, scaling a business? And how do you find time to ensure that you're prioritizing those, even when we both know it seems like everything's always urgent all the time?

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Everything is always urgent all the time. But guess what? It'll be there tomorrow, too. You know what I mean? You have to just tell yourself like that. Sometimes it's like you walk away and you're like, I don't care if this burns down. I need a break. You literally sometimes get to that point. You're just like, you know what, it'll be fine. And then you're gone and you're like, Hey, everything was okay. Like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

So I have that.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Yeah. I turned I started uh I I love um. film and production. Yeah. So like 10 years ago I started doing drone work.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

And actually I just had a call on the way in here for a uh like a big national pr uh production for next week. So I have but it's not a business but I have turned it into a so I get paid to go do my fun thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Right. But you're in a way becoming wealthy doing what you love.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Yeah. But I mean you can live on doing production work unless you're like some huge thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

You're not making that much money. But I like doing it.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

I mean my dad's a stunt man. Yeah. He grew up in production key grip. And no like it's extremely volatile.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

Tough work. It's very volatile. So I get to go sneak away, get paid to play with a toy.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

And I had like I just had a show that was on Netflix last year that was like number one for two weeks worldwide.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

What show? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

The um Elizabeth Smart Dog.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

No.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

I did all the drone work for that.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

Seriously Chris?

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Thanks for letting me brag about it.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Wow. Yeah. How about your little soapbox?

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Yeah so I get to go do that.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

You did the piano guys though, didn't you?

SPEAKER_01 44:59

No.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

No? You didn't do the piano guys? I could have sworn that you did.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

No, my friend Chris did though.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Oh that's I mean I know I I know it's a small world that's where we got well I don't know Chris but that's probably where I had heard of that through you. Yeah you were saying that he had done the piano guys. Because don't you have this outrageously large drone?

SPEAKER_01 45:19

I have a yeah I have a gigantic drone I don't know anything about drones but I know that I've seen pictures of it and I'm like I didn't know they made him that big oh yeah well like for for like car shoots and like film stuff where we want to fly so you know like we fly like a massive camera package with that's like 50 pounds. So it's it's huge. Fascinating so I do so I have outside stuff that that gets me out of the store and it's it is honestly I come back refresh it's like a vacation. You come back kind of like takes your mind off of it and you come back with new ideas and new things. So it's great. Your hobby doesn't have to be something that makes you money I just happen to find one that's like hey this is fun to do and people will pay me to do it. I'm like this is great. You know and I get a little little make a little brag now and again about you know something that I did. I have one more hobby I just started two years ago because I I don't I don't know I I don't I don't know how I exactly got into this but I got licensed as a pyrotechnic operator and so we do what is that for Utah and Nevada. So like I'm doing a um I'm doing a city in Nevada in Vegas I'm doing not Las Vegas but one of the other small towns on there were doing their firework show for them. Nah I mean the the random but I super random I had to go take a test and everything like no kidding oh yeah it's like a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

What is it called a pyrotechnic operator.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Pyrotechnic operator and if I if I got like a one more license with it I could you know blow up Stuntman. Like we could do like practical effects and stuff. I'm not going to pursue that I don't think because I really don't have the time for that we were doing fireworks and then we wanted bigger fireworks and they're like well you have to have a license for that and I'm like well then I'm going to get a license so pyrotechnics yeah okay that's like that's that's only like once a year.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

But don't be afraid to pursue like stuff you like you know you know you one day you grow up and you're podcasts for me like plot out. Yeah I think it literally is a reset to me. And that's what's been so hard is I do feel a lot of podcasts are very marketing driven and like oh an advertisement this that and I never ever will have this podcast be that because for me it is that outlet. It's I love to talk and I love to talk with like minded people and I love real conversations. No bullshit no fluff there's so much of that out there and I take so much pride in my ability to be authentic authentic and no it doesn't disvalue what I do bring to the table.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 47:40

And failing publicly it does build a lot of trust. And so I wouldn't say I'm failing publicly I think I'm doing pretty damn good jobs I would say I feel like you're doing a pretty damn good job as well. It's more a matter of owning every aspect of how you feel and how you show up and who you are and knowing that doesn't whatsoever devalue the success that you're achieving and the role model you already are to so many people that you aren't even aware of. And so I love that you have gone after these hobbies that honestly I do feel they're slightly intimidating. They're not just your you know flat out just your bullshit oh I'll go on a hike this weekend. Oh I'll no like that's just you know that's not going to do anything. And then probably 99.9% of the time it's not going to happen. You know yours are genuinely in my eyes holding you responsible to removing your mind and I can see where it has worked in your favor that you've been able to disassociate yourself with something that especially being generational it's it's crazy. You know parents and I'm curious what is your take on because what I was about to say is as parents you always want to make your kids proud but I know what my parents did best is teaching me what I don't want to do and marriage and uh financially and in life and I want to be an accountable person. Yeah there's a lot of growth that comes with when you're willing to be accountable. As a father how do you feel and you have a very unique approach as well how do you feel maybe a lot of people go wrong when it comes to being a parent with business ownership or false narratives that you hear that once you actually have real life application it's just like that's that isn't realistic.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

I think not taking the time to spend with your family truly like not you if you're not breaking away because the business needs you that was I saw my parents do that like with our with six kids with the younger ones and they will attest to this like they're still angry about it. Like they kind of got forgotten because they had to go to work and like work was the most important thing. So making sure you take that time to break away to go spend with your kids go to their stuff go you know do things with them like be be part of their lives you know I think that's it's because it's easy to they said it's never ending there's always a problem there's always a fire there's always something to do you know but you take that time to be a parent.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

So and that will never go away and so it's learning to live around it. And that's what I really exactly I feel that so many people have an unrealistic understanding of is right like well once I'm at Greg's level then I wouldn't know. And that's why I love that you say that because it's like you still have the days where you literally and I laugh because I have those same dates where it's like you know what if it all burns down then before I come back for yeah then you come back the next morning you're like wow everything's fine. Still here. Okay. Yeah yeah like it definitely does help neutralize you mentally on maybe this doesn't need me as much as I feel or I want it to need me.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

And no matter what this is just a feeling of discomfort. And I preach that all the time which is why I love fitness is because you purposely get yourself uncomfortable. And I have noticed that partners and business owners in general who aren't making an effort to intentionally get uncomfortable every day before they're forced to get uncomfortable, they're very in motive. And you said at the beginning of the podcast your ability to adapt you didn't use the word adapt but you basically described that. It's like your ability to just go with it, figure it out as you go that's adaptability. And adaptability I feel can be very quickly derailed when you're in motive and you're easily emotionally triggered because it's like oh my God, discomfort like well what am I going to do and what whereas you're like oh you know huh and you can kind of process and think through it because you already were there today or you already were there this week.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

And so even when I'm looking at your hobbies like yeah those are things that definitely take time time to pursue time to understand time to earn and time to learn. Like you don't just fly a drone like you're flying overnight. And so it does require you to keep showing up to continue to nurture that hobby and and like you said you don't have to make money off of it but it is kind of fun to make money off doing what you like.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

Just buy more drones. Yeah yeah I mean you could do that by by the way showing up on set collection when I show up on set and I get bossed around by a director it's like the weirdest thing because like I'm the boss like I no one bosses me and they don't know that. They just hired me to do a job and I show up and do it and I don't say anything. But the first like few times I was on like some bigger sets I was like fine I'll I'll do it okay. And I'm like this is weird.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

Yeah a little off putting I really don't have ego about it but it's just a different scenario than you're used to you know I will say that's one of the characteristics I love most about you and that I've always been very drawn to you about is humility. I've never felt that you have had to share or need to have other people know what you've achieved in your life and or your level of intelligence in order to contribute whether it's to the conversation or the room love that about you. I admire that about you I know we joke about it when I pulled up in the Subaru and I was like pull up like some Mas Rati I thought that was you and you're like no just drove the plane all forward you know but I love that about you. And what value do you feel like there is in staying humble regardless of however you view success when you achieve the success that you've been after what value do you feel really lies in remaining humble?

SPEAKER_01 53:19

I mean just keeping you grounded right just kind of remembering where you came from and then uh I I remember still like hearing about like Warren Buffett still lives like in the same house like you know drives the same old car and that guy's got endless money. But yeah but it's interesting you hear a lot of successful people do might do something like that, you know, and keep something that can't kind of keep you tied down.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

I've always felt like there's a lot of wealth in being elusive right and in a day and age where I feel like everybody is so quick to say I've done it before they've even really truly done it.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

Right. They speak of it when they're on their way to it that there is a lot of wealth and just simply knowing you've done it and winning privately and I'm sure sharing with your spouse. I know she's my biggest rock and support you know sure but ultimately when you have other people maybe sharing wins or achievements being that one person in the room who doesn't come back with oh well I instead saying congratulations. That's really really cool.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:21

Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 54:22

I think it's yeah I think it's a big thing if you can maintain it, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:26

Yeah yeah not have anything to prove necessarily to others because you know that hey what I'm achieving and the wins that that I'm after and what I'm driving towards it's for me and it's genuinely for me.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

Yeah. And if it is you don't really care if you're telling everybody you know you don't have to tell you it's like the looking back that you talked about.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

You don't really care.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

Yeah I really yeah I just kind of feel embarrassed if I'm like guess what I do guess what I did.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Yeah exactly like who cares? Exactly and maybe that's right exactly after that you know maybe it's a deeply rooted entrepreneurial spirit that you talked about at the beginning of this where it's just like you're in it for you and it's what motivates you it's what drives you it's what keeps you up at night to do something bigger something better. And you don't really care who knows because no matter what you aren't going to stop or at any given point if someone were to say something in return you aren't going to maybe consider what it is that or not consider what it is that you wanted to do but reconsider your ideas because I I've never sensed that about you. You're just like this is my idea and I think it's pretty cool and oh yeah by the way Nix I went with it. Yeah like next time I meet with you. That's you're all you've always done it. And I you know you laugh but I also feel like that's a characteristic that's so rare. It's just like I hear so much bullshit Greg. Like so much I appreciate you saying that it's so nice.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

You know what I call I I didn't make this up wantrapreneur.

SPEAKER_02 55:55

A what? A wantrapreneur oh yeah you want to be a great way to that's a a non-explicit way of putting what I am always around people that are full of shit. Oh a hundred percent yeah a thousand percent and I blow right through that's why we do the financial deep dive in the interview process and meet the spouse because both of those environments and conversations immediately tell me is this uh in your words which I love or is this really genuinely somebody who's what I see is what I get yeah because you lie about your numbers you lie about where you're at or you are someone different around your number one support your spouse than you are when it's just you and I that isn't a character that we support in our firm.

SPEAKER_00 56:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 56:40

So I yeah I really like that. Wrapping up would you you know on the hard days on the dark days we all have them I genuinely want to know because you are a very optimistic human being and I love it. Like whenever we've met I'm just laughing and smiley and like damn I need more Greg in my life. I just love it because we are both very driven and have tons of ideas and I've never felt that you have limited my ideas or cautioned my ideas and I that is just something I want to be around more right of feeling heard and understood and like yeah you get it because you would go and make that same move because you are making that same or making the the same level of big decisions as I want to right like again it goes back to selling something that you've never purchased. So you can feel that when you're sharing things with people and it's like your caution is more fear because you've never done it. And so I love that because with you it's like no I know you've done it and you get it and the conversation just moves. So of you of honestly anyone I've asked this to like I genuinely transparently want to know on your hard days because we all have them what do you practice or stick to or what's your mantra to continue showing up I do on hard days I mean yeah there no doubt we all have them.

SPEAKER_01 58:06

Sometimes it's just taking a moment by yourself and just reflecting or maybe it's meditation you know and just kind of you kind of take a little inventory of where you're at with things and how things are going. You know, because it's easy to get down on ourselves. Maybe we don't do that outwardly but we all do it in right internally. And sometimes just taking a little inventory and going okay now today feels shitty but you look you know you start going oh okay and I try to think like the positives oh but I did this and this is going good and I kind of start to go through my mind things that are like and and not over uh you know fluff them like legit things like this is going good this is going a good direction okay all right things will be you know and don't uh acknowledge it feel it but don't dwell on it because you don't want to spiral right it's easy to we can spiral so but find those things that are your wins and kind of go back and go okay and not a win from 10 years ago maybe you know like two weeks like what what are you doing that's good and uh yeah because I I have those days for sure yeah and it is tough but but just sometimes some your own quiet reflection is is a for me is is super beneficial.

SPEAKER_02 59:18

Mm-hmm what do you feel when you say take inventory what are you taking inventory of?

SPEAKER_01 59:24

Oh I'm I'm kind of going through where I'm at with with maybe something going on in the business you know or something really difficult I'm dealing with and it's like what is this really what are like maybe what are the walking through mentally like what are the potential outcomes? What's the waste worst case scenario? That kind of stuff where I can go exhaust oh okay so we're I know this is the worst thing I can think of and if that happened would that be the end of the world no that would suck maybe this is the best thing that could happen you know kind of if if I know all my options I feel like it's easier to face it. So that's kind of what I what I do.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

I love that a lot of the people who listen to this or who I feel ask for the link or drawn to this they are either at that point where the amount of money that they're on track to make which is typically like between surpassing one million or surpassing five million there's complexities that literally hitting those minor benchmarks if you're looking at scaling and going big, right? You're not really even technically considered a Series A yet you're still technically a seed company. But it's a big deal when you move into seven figures and then you move into multiple seven figures, there are genuinely complexities that come with more money, not problems, just complexities or they do want to scale and they are smart in the sense that they understand just because I have something that sells and we've made decent money off of it and we've been able to clarify and protect our margins doesn't necessarily mean going and duplicating this at another place and with other people is going to do exactly the same thing. So factoring in who would be listening to this and with what you've achieved, what advice would you give to someone who's wanting to scale larger whether it's multiple locations or more money that maybe with what you now know you would have told your younger self.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

If you're you're talking about we're talking about like scaling something like that. I would it wouldn't necessarily be a a mentor but I think I would be more open to looking at someone else who's done something kind of similar and how they did it. And just seeing like and and and also also just taking a hard look in the mirror and going am I doing this because like we all want to scale am I doing it like for the right reasons? Do I really believe this is going to work? So again take some internal inventory like man am I doing this for the reasons is it do I really believe this or am I just doing it because I want to make it bigger because we all want to like grow our businesses bigger. But it but it sometimes it comes at the expense of a crappy location just because well it's a good lease or whatever. It's easy to get in there. But it's like are we really doing it for the right right I think I would look more at that I feel like that comes maybe just from experience you know and maybe making some bad decisions and then having to having to live with them.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:18

Yeah I love that you say that because just as far as taking inventory on everything it it's again it's the cautious that you had talked about before you know don't just go and act on every idea that you have act cautiously and I feel like that's that's really wise and then no once you've been cautious enough which basically what you shared is research it understand you know you mentioned find someone who's doing it. I've heard like the main keys I always forget the oh no the third one is wait. So four keys to success you know you hear this all the time but it did stand out to me. The first one was find your money making skill there's four of them I can't think of them off the top of my head right now find your money making skill two was find someone who's basically what you said at where you want to be figure out their input and double that in your output. And I was like that's a very real world like applicable way to say success has footprints follow them. It's like you know well that for me where I'm extremely logical it's like oh I get it. So figure out what they're putting in and double that output. Very interesting. Then it was wait you know and I see that so often business people plant seeds and they're like oh it's not working dig it up I'm like we just fucking planted that yesterday like give it a minute yeah can we give it at least 90 days and that has been so pivotal that and something I've implemented with partners the last few years is we have a discussion about investments, right? It's a fun time it's several months if not over a year into the partnership and I feel really comfortable about really ramping up investments, lots of fun conversations. I know that's going to come up though, right? Because they've never typically they've never invested this level but always if I'm in the picture they haven't where it's actually paid off and they've measured it wisely which is why it hasn't paid off. And a question I've learned to ask is when are we taking this off the table until to discuss. Because as a CFO it's easy to be like hey I want to reallocate resources because this is really working or for a CEO it's just the fear right of like I don't feel they sometimes have a very false notion of how something's going to pay off or how it'll take off or ramp up right and that's so critical because it's forcing the waiting period where like you got to just wait and see what happens and get comfortable in the uncertainty and embrace uncertainty.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:47

You know you talked about the bad lease and I feel like that's why that happens is because it's like I just got to solidify the uncertainty so locked in the brick and mortar and I have seen that happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:56

Like a five year contract, awful location tied in strip mall and it's like you don't think anything else is going to come up so it's like oh maybe you should have just been a little more patient. And it's not always easy to do but we learn those lessons. It's not easy yeah sometimes the hard way.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:11

Yeah and the fourth was proximity is power. And I feel like a lot of people do get very comfortable where they start their business and it's like are you in the white hot epicenter of where that's actually going to benefit you. If not move it whether that's strategic alliances or like if you're in a trades company go where there's tons of development or if that's your customer database go where there's a lot of those people buying like I don't know it just kind of stood out to me. So I love that you say that success does have footprints and so find someone and follow them and doesn't have to be a mentor just open your eyes and realize like it's okay to have somebody who's already been there. And sometimes I feel like when I recommend especially from like a consulting point of view for people to do seminars and educate people before they sell or like realtors or insurance agents or whatever When I say bring on a guest speaker and maybe have it be someone who's really prominent in like your industry or maybe what these people can align with, it's almost as if, like, well, why would I do that? Because then what if they want to do business with that person, not me? It has nothing to do with that because it's what you said. You have they have access to you. Yeah. They don't have access to that person. There's such a level of like personability and relatability that comes with just knowing you can like call him or text him versus in understanding like you're that next level I could get to, right? Like it, they it's realistic. They can see themselves getting where you are. So don't devalue yourself because there's someone else in the room who is your role model, you know. Embrace that. Oh, yeah. It just really yeah, boils down like transparency, you know? Like own your shit, own what you don't know, be proud of what you don't know, and keep learning. Like always stay curious.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:53

Yeah, always stay curious.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:54

So, on that note, what is your favorite book?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:57

My favorite book?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

Yeah, what are you reading right now?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

Oh well, I'm not reading anything right now, actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:05

So, what would you say is your favorite read then?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

Favorite book, though, just if we say business book, yeah, emyth.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:11

Emo. No kidding.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:13

I mean, I know that's so like basic, but I reread it every every once in a while.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

Okay, the emoth.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:19

I think it's good.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:20

Love that. Well, thank you. This has been really fun. Yeah, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:25

So I appreciate having you here and sharing your side of things and for maintaining transparency. It it really does go a long way. And I know there's a lot of people that can relate. So for all of our listeners out there, remember to nix your excuses and keep showing up every day and keep driving toward what you're building.