The AI Paradox: Building Tomorrow's Leaders When the Pipeline Is Disappearing

What happens to the leaders of tomorrow if AI is quietly eliminating the entry-level jobs that used to build them? In this inaugural episode of The Ground Floor, Christina Greenberg sits down with Ellen Weinreb — founder of Weinreb Group Sustainability Consulting and one of the foremost recruiters in the corporate sustainability space — for an honest, wide-ranging conversation about purpose-driven careers, leadership development, and the forces reshaping the workforce. From greenhouse gas accounting to the disappearing junior role, they dig into what organizations are actually doing to build talent pipelines — and what they're getting wrong.

They also get personal. As two recruiters with over 20 years in the field — and as parents of college-aged kids — Christina and Ellen wrestle with the AI paradox facing today's graduates: universities are restricting AI use in classrooms while employers expect fluency on day one. Their conversation covers how mid-career professionals can make meaningful pivots into purpose-driven work, what skills are actually growing in the sustainability sector, and why networking — old school, in-person, relationship-first — remains the one constant in a rapidly changing landscape.

Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to The Ground Floor wherever you listen to podcasts. Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts — it helps more nonprofit leaders find the show. Follow Christina on LinkedIn for more on leadership, hiring, and building stronger organizations.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Um, today we're having a great conversation with Ellen Weinreb. She and I both have been both personal and work friends for a long time. Um, we both work obviously in search in the nonprofit and mission-driven space, and also both have kids at the same age. So it's very fun to talk both about kids and home and work at the same time. Um, Ellen, one of the things you and I were just talking about, thinking about our kids and young people, is sort of what is the future of the workforce? Um, and I'm curious what you're hearing from clients or what you're seeing yourself and how you're thinking about that. How are we preparing young people for the workforce they will face? And how are companies trying to prepare for the future and their workforce planning?

SPEAKER_01 0:41

In terms of how companies are preparing leaders, you know, what's what's interesting is many years ago, blue chip companies like IBM or General Electric would have these rotational leadership training, which was an awesome, fabulous way for individuals to get a lot of leadership training to uh know the full business. And these days young professionals aren't really given that opportunity. The likelihood that if you were to go through that training at IBM is that you would stay at the company for 10, 20, 30 years, this kind of contract that you would be an employee for life, and that certainly doesn't exist. And so the companies aren't really investing in those junior people the same way because their return on investment is decreased if the if they get this leadership company training at one company and then go on to another company. So there's a lot around um challenges for where do young people get this later leadership training because where companies are hiring is on a specific task or skill. Have you are you seeing that in the education sector?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

We are. I think what we're seeing is that um, and you know, and obviously in schools that hasn't changed dramatically, but in nonprofits that we work with or in central offices, I think education's always had issues with training around management because people are often in jobs. They're in small organizations that are pretty flat, or they're in jobs that them like being a teacher doesn't lend yourself to adult management, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Yeah, the path to leadership is clear.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Yeah. That is clear. But in our nonprofit partners, we're definitely seeing that where I feel like a lot of those entry-level roles, because of the uncertainty in the economy, because of the shifts and funding that they're either already seeing or scared about seeing, that when people leave, they're not backfilling roles. And sometimes those are senior roles, but sometimes they're more junior roles. And we're definitely finding that there's less interest in filling those entry-level roles. Instead, they're just trying to figure out is it AI, is it a virtual assistant or a contractor, or is it just that someone more senior is picking up some of that work? I don't know. I do worry, as you know, the parent of teens who are all being in the workforce. I do wonder like those entry-level jobs that I did in my 20s, are those going to be available to young people? And then I fast forward and I think about, you know, you and I probably aren't too worried about AI taking our jobs because what we do is pretty specialized. But to get to where we are took 30 plus years of workforce experience. And so that's my question. It's like, how are we going to groom or get people ready for those senior liable jobs if we don't have the entry-level roles for them? Or how do we keep, especially in this current environment where young people are feeling the strain of housing's really expensive, living is really expensive, inflation is really high, interest rates are high. How do they feel comfortable, particularly in the nonprofit mission-driven sustainability space, taking on jobs that also pay less, knowing that long term they'll be able to make it? And so, yeah, I I'm not sure we've really figured out as a society or as a sector what we're gonna do about that.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

I mean, in a nonprofit sector is just getting hit in so many ways in terms of identifying funding sources and coming up with alternatives for fundraising and earning. And companies are just really under pressure to perform on Wall Street, and so they need to maintain their margins, reduce costs, and so they're outsourcing it all over the world. They're just trying to find cheaper ways to come or you know, fewer people. And so there, yeah, there's a lot of pressure on the system overall. And I think that also the role that that graduate schools and undergraduates play in terms of upskilling that workforce is pretty crucial. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

So I know you're really interested in kind of those competencies that are developed, or how do we look at them? And I'm I'm interested to hear as someone who's been in this field of sustainability and working with companies for so long. Like what are the trends and what they're looking for in terms of skills or competencies in the workforce? And is there a gap in how people are being prepared and what they actually need to be able to do?

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Yeah, so some of the skills that are coming up are around data, right? Analyzing data or the greenhouse gas accounting and really understanding how to come up with solutions that will have a return on investment. So it's the ROI calculations and that kind of thing. And then there's also around accounting and accountability. So if you want to be transparent about these numbers, then you also need them audited and verified. So there's like CPAs and ESG controllers, and there's a lot around that, and then a lot of resources going into specifically around energy or greenhouse gas reduction, and so finding more cheaper, more efficient means for energy, and there's AI, there's startups and clean tech startups, and there's a lot of jobs around that. So there's certainly a lot of those skills that are very specific. And then also in terms of the competencies around leadership. And one of the questions I have is what are the companies doing to support leadership development for their teams and what those pathways are.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

What would you recommend to someone who's a mid-career person who wants to find purpose in their role and is looking for a purpose-driven role? And we know that can purpose-driven roles can live in so many different places, right? Yeah. What do you recommend to them in terms of how they approach it, how they think about their job search, what orgs they should be a part of, or even what roles would be appropriate for them?

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Yeah, I think it's really important that that individuals think about their personal brand when they're working, not just when they're job searching, because everybody will be seeking their next thing at some point. And so it's important to maintain that focus on that personal brand, which means what are you what are you doing as an individual to be out there? LinkedIn, Substack, um, speaking at conferences, getting a podcast interview as we are today. And so, and and then networking. It's just it's it's like networking is one of those tenets that is not going away. There's a lot of the ways the world is changing, but networking and real life connections are really valuable. They've always been valuable and they'll continue to be valuable.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

And what do you recommend? So I can say some of the things I recommend. I don't know if they're the same or different from you. I'll get people sometimes who will say, Oh, I want to transition from this kind of purpose-driven or mission-driven work to that kind of mission-driven work, or hey, I've been mostly in corporate, but I'm really want to be in the nonprofit or mission-driven sector, but I'm trying to figure out how to make that pivot. And so, similar to you, I recommend, of course, attending events, going to conferences in that content area you're interested in, volunteering as a board member or volunteer in some substantive way in their organizations that provide. I can actually put it in the comments for this episode, like some of the organizations that provide opportunities for people from a more traditional corporate atmosphere to volunteer in nonprofits in a substantive way. Board service, as I mentioned always. But what are some of the things that you recommend to people who want to make that pivot? Because I do understand why often mission-driven organizations are suspect of someone coming from a more corporate private sector environment.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Yeah. Yeah. So for pivoting, it's, you know, if you want to do it within your company, there's always these like stretch goals or ways to work cross-functionally. Like I'm hearing a lot of individuals who want to get trained and in a competent in AI. So they're taking opportunities to do, let's say, ethics in AI or sustainability in AI. And so they're taking these cross-functional opportunities to work. And then it's also doing a lot of research in some area. And I think it's important to level set when you're doing research, like to make it a commitment that you're, let's say it's AI. You know, do you want to work on it's not AI broadly, it's some some way you carve it out where you have something to give and you also have something to learn. And so to think very strategically about what that is, and position yourself, show up to a conference or a webinar, get a certif certification in in this area that you're interested, and also just start networking with, let's say, classmates or alums or people that you've passed crossed paths with in the past who could support you in the future. And so networking is also always valuable for sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Um, finally, because you mentioned AI. What would you recommend to universities who are trying to prepare, you know, young people for the workforce, for folks that are younger in their career to learn about AI, to be ready for the next chapter? What are you hearing and what do you see?

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Well, I think young people that are graduating or about to graduate need to be realistic about what the opportunities are and what they can do that AI cannot do. So that's the in-person, face-to-face, or also interpreting the AI or questioning the AI. So having an AI-related job is really valuable, but also recognizing that AI in many cases is doing, is allowing jobs that used to a task that used to take several people can now be done by fewer people. So it's identifying the things that don't take a lot of people, but take really that special expertise. And also it's jumping on a bandwagon. Like what is new and what is something that is that you foresee as pot has growth potential so that you can enter on the ground floor and take that ladder up.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Yeah. Yeah, I definitely think that's true. And um, you know, I think being able to use AI in a savvy way makes a lot of sense. As recruiters, I know some of my colleagues have been irritated lately by folks who are clearly, you know, typing a prompt in a chat GBT and reading it out in an interview. Like that, that's a no-no, right? You need to have your own individual thoughts and opinions and perspectives. But I do think that savvy use of AI can actually be a tell in a positive way, right? Folks that understand how to use those tools to make themselves even better and make their presentation even better.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Yeah, I think it's important to stay on top of it and be one step ahead.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you, Ellen. Any final thoughts for people who are interested in the sustainability space that you'd like to share with them to learn more resources on our website, winerebgroup.com.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

And we certainly you can put that comments in the notes. I will. And we welcome resumes uploaded to our database if somebody's interested in those positions, and we can get in touch with you if a right fit opportunity arises.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Great. And I know, I mean, you are the sustainability recruiter, so people should definitely contact you if they're interested in that space. And I know although, you know, it's an uncertain political environment, there's still a lot of companies trying to do great work, right? In that area.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Absolutely. Yeah. Companies are staying in the game and they're doing the work, but they're doing it more quietly. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks, Ellen, so much for your time. Thank you, Christina.