Authentic Leadership in Uncertain Times — with Dr. Nicole Assisi, CEO of Thrive

What does it take to lead — and to keep leaders — when nonprofits and schools are navigating more uncertainty than ever before? In this episode of The Ground Floor, Christina sits down with Dr. Nicole Assisi, CEO of Thrive, to talk about what it really takes to build leadership that lasts.

Nicole brings decades of experience as a teacher, principal, superintendent, and now executive coach and strategy partner to nonprofits and school systems across California and beyond. She and Christina dig into:

• Why the era of buttoned-up "persona leadership" is over — and what authentic leadership looks like in practice
• The four C's of retaining great people when compensation alone isn't enough: collaboration, culture, coaching, and yes, comp (including the story of a leader who turned down a $700K role over culture)
• Why hiring is only step one — and why losing a leader is more expensive than finding one
• What boards need to learn to be great supervisors of CEOs and EDs, not just great fiduciaries
• Coaching as "becoming yourself with more skill" — not becoming someone else
• Why coherence beats more initiatives in a hectic moment, and how leaders can resist the hamster wheel of putting out fires

A grounded, practical conversation for board members, executives, and anyone thinking about how to build organizations where leaders can do their best work — and stay.

Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to The Ground Floor wherever you listen to podcasts. Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts — it helps more nonprofit leaders find the show. Follow Christina on LinkedIn for more on leadership, hiring, and building stronger organizations.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Nicole, one of the things that folks are always asking me about is how they can find leaders that can deal with not just the challenges of today, but what's coming tomorrow, and particularly in this uncertain moment. I'm curious what you all are seeing at Thrive around what are some of the ways that folks can identify and make sure that their talent is ready for those challenges.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

I love that question. I mean, it comes up a lot, right? Like right now, things are more hectic, more uncertain than I think we've ever seen them in nonprofits and in education. But I think it really speaks to a couple of things. I think organizations need to really root in like the humanity of this work. And what I mean by that is that we sometimes talk about like this work needs to have joy. Like you need to have fun. And you also need to create space for authentic leadership. And I think that when we allow leaders to show up more authentically, helping them to sort of navigate and pivot with all the things that are happening right now. And so kind of figuring out how do you make it safe or how do you make it a norm to show up with your full self. I mean, that's kind of one of the values that we often talk about. It's like, how can people bring their full self to the work in order to make it more sustainable? And I think that connects kind of to a second piece that I know you and I both value, which is this idea that like it takes a team. Like it really truly is not a solo sport. It's also not a combat sport, right? It's not a solo sport, it's not a combat sport. It's more like ballroom dancing, maybe, or even like a soccer match. Uh, you gotta have people that you can do to work with. Uh, and building a strong team so that not everything falls on the leader and so that the leader feels well supported. And also that the leader doesn't feel like they need to be a unicorn for all things. Like there are other people in the organization that can do this. I think those are some of the ways that nonprofits and schools can help create a space where like leaders are ready to face what the future is bringing.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

And I love that point about team because when we're hiring leaders, of course they care deeply about the board, whoever's hiring them and who they're working directly for. They also really care about who they're working with. And it's really important to them, you're exactly right, to know who's on my team, who's on my side, who's going to be there with me to help execute on the work. And I think one of the things that's tough is that resources are really strained. And so we never can have as many individuals as we'd like to have in a school or a nonprofit. There's always more work that could be done. And I guess when I think about the leaders we work with, it's really how can they, to your point, motivate and excite their team and also get the right people in the right seats to do that work. And I'm curious when you're doing strategy, how does that come up with boards and leaders around how their strategy connects to their people and the people they have in their organization and the skills they need?

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Yeah, I mean, obviously, one way is always compensation, right? Like what is your strategy around compensation and bringing people in? But I think the reality is that a lot of nonprofits are limited right now. And a lot of schools are limited in how they think about compensation, which makes it even more important to kind of talk through like the other three C's, right? Like there is collaboration, what sort of collaborative supports are there for folks? There is culture. How do you build the culture where people can be successful and where it's like fun and joyful? And um, you know, I actually talked to a leader the other day. They were being offered a, you're not gonna believe this, it was a job that was going to pay close to $700,000. It was more than three times more than what they were currently making. They turned it down. They turn it down because of culture. They were like, this is not the culture I want. Like, this work is so hard. And I know like people are gonna watch this and they'll be like, what job was that? But you know, compensation isn't everything. Like the collaboration, the team that you work with, the culture that you come into, those are both really important. And I think the other C is coaching. What sort of development opportunities are there for leaders to like execute on strategy? What kind of support is there? I think all those things come together. But yes, somebody walked away from that job.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

That is crazy. I know everyone's gonna say, Nicole, what's that job and how do I get it? I mean, with the coaching piece too, it's interesting you're saying that we're seeing a lot more boards in a good way engage with us as we're doing a search to think about the transition and the coaching and the onboarding. And actually, I have an ED that called me the other day, an outgoing founding ED, who said, Not just do I want to think about coaching for the ED, how can we think about coaching for my leadership team and how they're preparing for the executive director and how they're carrying on that work? And that gets to something I'm always a broken record about, which is succession planning and coaching. But how are we getting everyone, giving everyone opportunities to learn what they need to learn, not just in their current role, but in future roles? Because I really do feel like that's the key, right? To keeping people engaged, but also keeping them moving through the pipeline and sustaining your organization.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Well, and another thing for boards to think about is what are the coaching that they need in order to be great supervisors and like leaders of leaders, right? Because the board's primary responsibility, obviously they have a fiduciary responsibility, but they're also the biggest thing they do is like hire, select, evaluate an executive director, CEO, superintendent. And that is really important. And a lot of boards don't know how to do that yet, but they can learn. And so we actually feel super grateful because a friend of mine brought me in to support her in her onboarding in a new organization. The organization had hired a search firm. They did it, you know, like you guys like did an exceptional job, but then sort of like when the search firm goes away, it's like, wait, you invested all this money to bring this person here, but how are you gonna make sure that like they stay, that they're ready, that they're successful? And it's not just on the leader, it's often on the board. I mean, turnover of superintendents. And, you know, when I talk to some of those folks, they're like, you know, it was hard working with my board. And so how do we help boards be exceptional supervisors just like we expect leaders to be exceptional supervisors? And I think the the investment and the second step of bringing somebody in, right? Step one is like finding the person, but step two is keeping the person because it's incredibly expensive to not keep them. Like you think finding them is important, like not keeping them is even more important. And so, how can you do that? And I think it is coaching. I'm glad people are bringing you guys in. And and hopefully when they bring you in, they think through how are we gonna be a great board? And how do we build our capacity to help this leader be successful?

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Well, and that's where it is so important, like you said, for all of us to work together, right? Like I always say, you know, I feel very confident in our ability to use what we've learned about someone in a hiring process, use what we've learned about an organization and a hiring process in the board to make that onboarding smooth, right? To help them get in their role, to help the board think about what is this person, what is their growth plan, what do they need to be working on this year, what are their core priorities? But then I'm not an executive coach. I'm not a board coach. And so that's often where we partner with folks like you to then say, okay, can you provide some intensive support to the board and executive and like just day-to-day how they do their job? And then we're really happy to pick up. And that's why I started doing evaluation work on, okay, a year in, let's look at those goals that you set for them and how they're doing. And let's look at the competencies that we knew that they were strong in and the places that they were still working and how those are going. And so I think that full cycle is something we're really excited about. And it's great to partner with folks like you who can do the other pieces.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Well, and I shared with you that like some of the work I feel really honored to do is right, I get to coach for the University of Cambridge in the UK. And that work is really cool, but it's not as cool as like coaching in California for nonprofits and school districts. And I'll tell you why, because the work that I did to do in Cambridge, it's great. I mean, I work with executive directors and CEOs and VPs from all over Latin America, like really worthy and amazing work. But I don't get to work with their boards. I don't get to work with their teams, I don't get to develop their strategic plan, and I don't get to partner with their search firms to make sure that we're really just create a little bit more coherence. Kind of going back to what you and I talked about before, it's a really crazy hectic time right now. So, how do we make this work more coherent? How do we not create more and more and more initiatives that leaders sort of need to like jump at? But how do we build that coherence so that they get to be successful so that like they stay, so that they don't feel demoralized, so that they stay motivated, so that they feel like they have the capacity and range to be their best selves and to lead a great team. Because ultimately, great leadership isn't about like learning how to be somebody else, right? Like sometimes people go, Oh, can you coach this person so that they can become like this? That's not what coaching is about. Coaching is about becoming yourself with more skill. How do you show up as your authentic self, but with like more skill to really do that work well? Yeah, I this is why I love the work that you guys do, because you get it, right? Thank you. No, but like it's like how do we bring these different pieces together? How do you think about bringing somebody in? How do you think about coaching and supporting them? How do you think about evaluating them? Because, you know, getting a leader isn't just about like finding them and like walking away. It's about like all the important work that happens after that.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

It is. So one final thought is what is a big shift that you think people need to make in the next six months to be ready for the next generation of talent? I think, and that could be a lot of directions. It could be AI, it could be Gen Z, it could be just like the craziness, the current world moment. Um, but what are what's the one thing you think people need to be thinking about differently?

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Two things come to mind that I think people need to do and think a little different about leadership. One is I think gone are the days of sort of the buttoned up like persona, if you will. Like the leadership persona is kind of the work of yesterday. I think authentic leadership, like people are expecting leaders to show up as their full self, but that means like you know, showing up with all the blemishes, with all the things, and like, you know, being the best version of yourself that you can be. But I think more and more people have less tolerance for inauthentic leadership and sort of persona-driven leadership. So I think that's just something to think about, right? How are we supporting leaders to to be their most authentic selves? I think there's some um leaders out there. Um, Fabi Bagula, the current superintendent of San Diego Unified, comes to mind as somebody who likes shows up so beautifully and so authentically. And I think people are really appreciating her for that, for for bringing all of herself to I think the second piece that people need to think about is money is limited, but how are we investing in growing and growing together? And I don't think it needs to look like bringing in outside people. It could just look like holding space and creating the norm of like we work together, we have some habits that we're gonna stick to. Like even when things get crazy, like we're still gonna support each other, we're still gonna have our meetings. Because I think when things come unglued, it's when we lose line of sight of each other, when we get so busy that all of a sudden you're like, ah, you know, my internal team, they don't need me. Like, let me just deal with the external stuff. I think that's when things usually derail a little bit because like more than ever, we need to like come together and not sort of go like, let me just put out fire. So um, you know, it's so funny. I was like just on a call with somebody. I actually have this book on my have you read this? It's a really great book around like shaping school culture. No, I haven't. Yeah. So funny, I happen to have like right here. But I think like thinking about how do we shape cultures, like what are the norms, what are the ways we come together, even when things are really busy? Because that's when we need each other the most. When like the heat turns up the most, that's when we need to come together. I think those are the important moments. And we cannot lose sight of that, and we cannot deprioritize that for like the hamster wheel of like trying to put out all the fires.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

I think that's really true. And I think that people just have to be comfortable with uncertainty. The uncertainty is the norm, right? I think to say, oh, things are gonna be done the way they've always been done for five or 10 years is not gonna happen. And I think that a lot of boards say, Oh, I want someone who's gonna definitely be here for at least a decade. And I say, you know what, it's always been a long time. It's an eternity these days. I don't think we can expect that. But what we can expect is for someone to dig in and have the foresight to really think ahead to what's gonna come and build an organization that's ready for it. And so I think that we have to have leaders with flexibility and resilience and proven flexibility and resilience because I don't think we can take a chance right now on someone who's going to struggle in the face of a changing time. You know, the last five years have been nothing but change, right? And I think it's gonna continue.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

It's gonna continue. And I think to like build on that, on what you're saying is just we need people who bring people together. I think you also can't afford to bring in somebody who's a rock star and nimble, but like if they can't bring the team together, then you're gonna lose other members, right? And so that it's like such a bring one person in, but you lose somebody else. So how do you bring in people? One that are nimble, and that two that can like bring people closer.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

I think that's true. Well, thank you, Nicole. I look forward to future conversations, both on video and individually. And uh thanks so much for your time.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Well, and thanks for everything that you do in this space, right? Like I feel really lucky to share this space with you. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Me too. Me too. All right, take care. Bye.