House prices rise, M&S shareholders demand longer skirts, and why Wimbledon's Centre Court seats lie empty

The latest Lloyds House Price Index indicates UK house prices have risen for the first time in weeks - but what does it mean for homeowners in London? 

Meanwhile M&S has updated shareholders and faced a backlash for its newer, shorter skirts. Retail Reporter, Felix Armstrong, has the details. 

Plus: Wimbledon slaps down accusations of pricing normal people out of the game, as seats lie empty on Centre Court. Deputy Sports Editor, Matt Hardy joins us to discuss. 

Remember to download the City AM app: https://tr.ee/BwDcEwXuPS

... and subscribe to our various newsletters here: https://mailchi.mp/cityam.com/newsletters

If you'd be interested in sponsoring Business As Usual please get in touch via the fanmail link!

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

This is a City AM Studios production.

SPEAKER_04 0:04

Hello and welcome back to Business as Usual with me, Martin Kimber. And me, Matt Kenyon. Coming up on the podcast today. House prices are back on the up, but for how long?

SPEAKER_02 0:14

A big win for British newspapers as the Daily Mail defeats Prince Harry in court.

SPEAKER_04 0:20

Plus, is corporate hospitality to blame for all the empty seats at Wimbledon? Or have the tickets just gotten too expensive? Well, welcome back to the podcast. Welcome back, Martin. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. Nice to know they didn't change the locks to the studio door. No, we couldn't figure out how. So we're going to be kicking off with some retail news. I'm going to say we're not going to be talking about Nigel Farage. I think we're probably going to be the only podcast. We're not going there. Nope. But where we are going is to some more retail focused stories. In the studio, we have our plucky retail reporter. Hello. Intrepid retail reporter, uh Felix Armstrong. You've had some housing data through. So about a week ago, we would have called it the Halifax House Price Index. RIP. R.I.P., there is no Halifax brand anymore. So now I suppose we call it the Lloyd's House Price Index.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Is that right? And with that renaming, it is bringing some good news. With house prices jumping for, according to this index, for the first time since the Iran War started four months ago.

SPEAKER_04 1:22

And what why is this?

SPEAKER_01 1:25

So mortgage rates obviously shot up in February in reaction to at the end of February and the start of March in reaction to the Iran War, but they have been softening since we had nationwide cuts twice in the space of a week at the end of June. And confidence is returning a little bit, but there were lots of caveats floating around this morning on that.

SPEAKER_04 1:46

So I think we talk quite a lot on the podcast about house prices, about the long view as well as the short view. I suppose when you're talking to experts about this, how much are they factoring in Iran? How much are they factoring in people's purchasing power? And how much are they factoring, I suppose, the house building market? Like what's the general consensus on the direction of the rest of this year?

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Yeah, so I do think Iran war as the kind of main factor in the housing market, that is receding quite a bit now, I think. Obviously, um that does tie into purchasing power and general consumer confidence as well. Um, but a lot of property experts at the moment are really zeroing in on um Burnham as our likely incoming prime minister. Not necessarily what he specifically will mean for property, although he has got some interesting ideas about property tax, but just the fact that we're gonna have for the third consecutive year a big period of uncertainty about how property taxes might change.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Worth saying, though, on this house price index that it is once again the north that is dragging up the uh the average, and that is the South and London that have fallen again. So for our listenership uh listening in in London, living in London, um, yeah, it's not as good a news as as it looks in the headline. No, and matched by a very sonder tone there, Martin spot the hat of the homeowner in the room. Anyway, let's take a walk down the high street from the estate agent down to MS, where uh they've been updating shareholders. And the chief executive uh of MS's mum has said their dresses are getting too short.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yeah, that's right, Martin. So apart from um the length of the dresses, there was quite a lot of disquiet over the refreshments available at these shareholder meetings. Um one shareholder was harking back to the times under former chairman Stuart Rose, where there would be a sit-down dinner with directors and there'd be lots of refreshments, and he said it would be a proper day out for the family, he said. Um and another shareholder said I missed the days that my mum and dad would take me to a shareholder meeting.

SPEAKER_04 3:47

That was those were good. You're lucky these days if it's not just a Zoom call. Like I think just to be in the room is great. So I think I think it's brilliant that they hold the company to such high standards. I think it should be a day out. I think it's brilliant. Yeah, Rachel Reeves's cheap family day out to the MS AGM. And finally, Felix, is Elephant and Castle about to get bougie?

SPEAKER_01 4:07

It is. Well, um, they have announced that Everyman, um the Upmarket Cinema brand, will be at the centre of their regeneration, their £500 million project, um, with a five-screen um cinema which will have a bar, restaurant, all the amenities. And yeah, this is part of um this project which is um bringing lots of um retail brands and a new high street and lots of housing um to this area of South London. I think really needed.

SPEAKER_04 4:35

I think Eleven Castle is such a strange area of London, which when you talk to people who knew the area well in the 90s, they'll have said, we don't go there, we don't get anywhere near that. That's a bit a bit dodge. But even now there is this strange, I think, disconnect between quite a lot of really quite premium property. It's great amenities, like great gyms, but also a lack of have you been there at night? I have I used to live in Kennington. Actually, I l I still live quite near um Alfred Castle now. I won't disclose where. Um but uh there is there is something kind of there's something wrong about it, for some of which is essentially zone one. Uh I think I mean I don't know if every man is gonna fix everything.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

I thought it was scary at night. I'm sorry waiting for a cab. That was there was some sketchy scenes.

SPEAKER_04 5:16

Well you can wait in a cinema screen next time, Martin.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Take in a movie.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

And I have to say, like, there's something about the everyman cinema, which which is deeply, and I think in quite an impressive, maybe quite unnerving way, Americanized the cinema experience. I was in an everyman the other week uh to watch the excellent film Obsession, um, which I really enjoyed. But they were for the first 20 minutes, there were just maybe four or five um waiters just coming around, giving people like quite gourmet burgers and waiters and drinks tripping over feet on their way to the streets. Yeah, which I think felt like it was like defeating the cinema experience, but was a sign of like people are really willing to buy into the experience economy around films. And if that can inject itself into Elephant and Castle, I have some hope for the area.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Once again, uh it's obvious I'm out of touch with the general public because that sounds absolutely insane.

SPEAKER_04 6:05

Yeah, it is hell, but it's but I I like I like it economically. Does that make sense? No, good.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

I can't imagine ever spending more than however much it already costs to go to the cinema.

SPEAKER_04 6:14

But you can just buy the tickets and not the food. So I think I was able to just sit back and be like, oh, this is this is fun, what they do.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:20

Well, we hope they succeed anyway. And Felix, thank you very much for joining us for a wonderful retail round.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Right, coming up after the break, Prince Harry loses his phone hacking case against the Daily Mail's owner. Don't go away.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

Welcome back. In a dramatic legal ruling, the High Court has decided in favour of the Daily Mail and against a group of individuals, including Prince Harry.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Our professional services editor Maria Ward Brennan has been on the case. What's gone on here then?

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Indeed, yes, so a very dramatic uh judgment. Over 400 pages the court has issued down on Tuesday, um, in favour, actually, of the association um publications, which owns obviously the Daily Mail. Uh I don't think, I don't know, I wasn't expecting this given his last win there a couple of years ago against um the Mare Group. So I think I don't know, um others would uh um sort of agree with me, but I thought it might go a little bit in his way. But again, it wasn't just him. Obviously, we have Prince Harry, it's um it's Sir Elton John, it's Elizabeth Hurley, they're all putting in sort of the cases as we sort of in what we know 15 years into the wiretapping sort of phone hacking scandal that has sort of been a grey cloud over journalism in in this country. So it looks like now that's sort of coming to an end because the judge literally kicked everything out. It agreed with nothing on the claimant side, like it literally dismissed everything from time bars to sort of all the allegations um that um journalists were sort of interfering with, phones, voicemails, etc. Um, I think for Prince Harry, it was 14 articles at the heart of the case involving his private life before he met his wife, um uh Meghan Markle. Um, so yeah, that's sort of the the be-all and end all of that case, it seems. I can only imagine, I don't really foresee him sort of appealing this.

SPEAKER_04 8:13

I mean, as you say, because we were talking about this in the office earlier, it's a 400-page judgment and quite a quite a stark one, the way it was worded by the judge. Yes. It feels like possibly it does close the door to a further appeal. I wonder also if it if it maybe closes the door on this entire saga. This these these 15 years of Levison into the Levison 2 inquiry that never happened. Obviously, as you say, the moment when the mirror was found the other outcome uh in another judgment last year. I mean, I suppose what where do where do you see this going now?

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Indeed, as a we're we're waiting for the for the judgment on Tuesday, and we sort of having a look into actually how much it has cost. And it's looking like it probably has cost uh the publishing as a sort of all the sort of journalist publications about over a billion pounds. Wow, wow.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Sort of from that's associated newspapers, news court breach, PLC, all of those all together.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

And bear in mind I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

I didn't know that was that much money left in journalism put together.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

It's definitely it's definitely something which gets talked about in journalism a lot, how much a lot of the Tableau press are still like even even when there are moments where like money is being made, yeah, budgets always have to take into account these liabilities, which are now like 20 years old, but but they're the sort of every year they start a new PL sheet and they're immediately in the red by X thousand because they're still paying off this uh these these claims that came through.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Indeed, and you need to keep in mind back in, I think a couple of years ago, I think it was 2022, 2023, there was a oh, I remember it so clearly the day I was looking at the high court system. There was a day when I'd say a good 30 or 40 claims were issued at the same time to the courts because there's also that time sensitivity around it of when you can actually issue your claim. And a lot of these sort of the when people found out they're hacked, there was sort of moments when you had to get a claim in or you're gonna be time barred. So it it seems like now it might look like it is sort of coming to the end. But as you said yourself, a billion pounds, obviously the Rupert Murdoch um sort of empire has really been the main focus and all of that. There, I think the Guardian done an article a couple of years ago when they went through Commonwealth Houses and looked at how much is because you have to put provisions, as you said yourself, aside for legal bills, and it did total to about 1.2 billion pounds. So give or take that, and obviously the mayor group is probably at 150 million on this.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

Do you think it's surprising, perhaps, Maria, that uh actually there were in the end very relatively few criminal convictions and not that many legal wins against newspapers? I wonder sometimes whether the court of public opinion was quite swift to say actually this was absolutely endemic across journalism in the 2000s. Whereas actually I I think when when the sort of the legal histories of this are written, I think it's been a much murkier picture. Is that fair to say?

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Yes, I get I get where you're coming from. I think obviously there has been a couple of criminal convictions in the world. There's been a couple. There's been a couple, obviously, um a few people who've kind of ventured back into public life as well. Um, but I I I think from the court's perspective, they had a lot to deal with. There was thousands of uh I think at one point it was like uh what about 1,600 claimants at one point. So they have a lot to deal with, trying to put these things together. And obviously it is historic. Cases when it's historic and trying to sort of showcase your um the fact that you're hacked or how that really affected you is very different um than sort of what you would put on on a piece of paper of something that you know that it's been physically harmed you, you know. It's it's it's a bit it's a bit different. So I I I'm probably I I think from the from the media perspective, there's been a lot of cleanup. There's been obviously a lot of you can you can't act like that, we can't, you know, go that way. And I think the from the news from the journalist perspective, I don't think anybody in this era of journalism would ever do that. I do think, you know, there has been a bad branding.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

And yet, journalists of our sort of generation, you know, slightly younger and never involved in this. Uh I don't know, I I've been abused by people in public about having been a journalist, and someone said, Oh yeah, go and hack some phones then. And I'm like, Yeah, I remember I was three. Literally.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

But I think like people who's listening, I don't think they realize that when you go to journalism school, like many of us do, to in order to work in the media, you know, you're you learn about the news of the world, you you learn about that whole hacking scandal of what the do's and don'ts, and make sure you don't do that and you have ethics. Like I remember one year, a whole year of my my journalism um degree was on ethics. And you you you know, you've learned about this is right and wrong. Um and obviously it was a different era back then for the media. It was a very different, but you have to keep in mind the media were giving people what the people wanted. There's a bit of a difference of there was an attitude from you know, you you can't really sometimes criticize when you're the one clicking and wanting it.

SPEAKER_04 12:48

Well, yeah, it was the time before social media and and it was the time when the tabloid is ruled supreme and it was a very different dynamic. Yes. We will of course be following this story closely uh if it continues. It might be that we've seen the last time. In an ethical way. In an ethical and responsible way. In the meantime, Maria, thank you very much. Thank you. See you very soon.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

And finally, you may not have noticed due to all the hullabaloo about the World Cup, but Wimbledon is currently in full swing, and a Brit has even made it to the quarterfinals. However, those who have been paying attention may have noticed swathes of empty seats this year, both on court one and centre court. So who or what is to blame for all these empty, highly coveted spaces? We've got our very own Boris Becker in the studio to help us out with this. Matt Hardy, deputy sports editor choices now.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

I have a great relationship with HMRC. Thank you very much. Um I think the the the hello boys, this is great, two days in a row. I would I would say the reason are people like yourself. You went uh you went yesterday, right? And a bit of champagne I went last week, and a couple of pims.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

I was at Wimbledon on uh Monday. Monday courtesy of a um courtesy of a very generous host. Um and there were You two have become the problem. Well, you've become the very thing about which we write.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

But this is what I'm trying to say. This is this has not become the problem, this has always been the problem. They put the corporates high up so that they it looks good on telly and stuff, but the reality is play starts at half one on centre court and it can run through to 11 o'clock. You're not gonna be there the whole time. Other sports, cricket, um, golf, rugby, football, there are corporate offerings where you know you're in a box and you can drink and nip out for a quick wee and you can go and do this. It's just not the case, that's not how tennis works. So I I don't think this is majorly new. The the the benches are still selling out. Wimbledon, who I had on the blower this week, are saying, you know, it's still only 30 quid to get in. You can take your own booze in. You know, it's still a brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Because they're they have had a bit of a ding-dong about ticket prices.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

Yeah, so they have had a bit of a ding-dong. And um a guy called Path Jindal, who is who is the heir to a billionaire Indian fortune, um, also owns an IPL team, a cricket team called the Delhi Capitals. He kind of hit out this week and said, you know, I've never seen so many empty seats. And I I did some research. The only thing I could find about him tennis-wise is that he has a venture firm called Centre Court Um Limited, which I thought was quite good. Obviously, he loves his tennis. I don't know whether he has a debture or anything, I haven't been able to find out, but um Wimbledon kind of slapped this down and said, you know, no, no, we're selling out, everything's great. Um, fans also want to go out and see Arthur Ferry in round four when he was on court 18. You know, they might not want to go and sit on centre court all the time.

SPEAKER_04 15:29

So, Matt, what's the truth of this? Are we is there a new epidemic of empty seats? Is it always just quite a fluid picture, anyway? Have things suddenly become out of reach in terms of cost? What's your view on this?

SPEAKER_03 15:41

I I think it's fluid. I I think it's maybe a lack of huge matchups. Early on, we always tend to get some really interesting ones. Jack Draper was supposed to play one of the big Americans but pulled out before. No Radicanu this time either. Sabalenka's out um already. She went out on, you know, just just a few days ago. But so we're as as little Brits are left with supporting people who we love because we love tennis and backing the Brit Arthur Ferry because he's a Brit, which is you know amazing. He goes today against a brilliant young Italian called Flavio Caboli. And if he wins, he's guaranteeing himself 900 grand.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

So but are you when you I know for a fact that you go back to hospitality stuff for part of your job? Are you not sometimes looking at the sheer number of people who are still in the box getting lathered, which is totally their um their prerogative and their right? But you do feel like there are sports fans out there that would give their left leg to be sat in the seat that these people are not going to because they're there for the whole experience, for the vibe, for the Wimbledon vibe, which is the best, it's even better than Burnham vibes, it's just the best vibes. But do you not have a little bit of sympathy with these people who who you know feel a little bit hard done by on that?

SPEAKER_03 16:52

100%. I I won't say who I went with, but um I think the I saw the opening match of the tournament, Yannick Cinner on the Monday morning or the Monday afternoon. Um two or three of the people I were with saw maybe six games of that five-set match. Well, you know, I I sat through the whole thing because I loved my tennis, and I I did text a quite senior banking figure who loves their tennis, and I was like, you know, this is what happened, and then they went expletives. I'd I'd I'd have given my arm and a leg to have seen that that match. So it is a problem, but this is kind of a corporate problem. Um, what we need to do is get better at inviting people who love the sport that they're going to watch, or who can deal with the fact that they might have to sit there and just have a little chat with with someone whilst something's going on that maybe they find less interesting.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

So you're saying that people should ultimately stomach the torment of having to watch with him next to me. Sign me up. That is a pleasure that very few people will have, but luckily people have had the pleasure for two days now of hearing your insights uh into the sports uh ecosystem, and I'm sure people are gonna hear even more as this wonderful summer of sports.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

And may I say I have watched sport with both of you and it's been golf, and we've been to the sumo. It's an honor.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

Yeah, the sumo sounds more interesting, actually. The sumo is excellent. Right, we're dipping into personal lives again. Thank you, Matt. Happy back to the guys. Thank you. Thank you. Well, that's all we have time for today. Thank you very much for listening to the business as usual. Don't forget to subscribe to CTM's daily and weekly newsletters, and of course, don't forget to download our free app.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

It's got everything those expensive news apps have, but we are, of course, free. We'll be back in your podcast feeds tomorrow at 6 a.m. But for now, goodbye. Goodbye.