GOLDA Girls
A podcast for Jewish women with a lot to say.
GOLDA founder Stephanie Butnick sits down with journalist Gabby Deutch, novelist Esther Chehebar, and Rabbi Diana Fersko each week to talk culture, community, identity, and the everyday moments shaping modern Jewish life.
GOLDA Girls
Welcome to GOLDA Girls
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GOLDA founder Stephanie Butnick, former host of the hit Jewish podcast Unorthodox, is back with a brand new show that brings together an all-star group of Jewish women to discuss the issues facing our community each week: from the headlines dominating their feeds to the dramas lighting up their group chats. GOLDA Girls is a show about culture, community, identity, and the everyday moments shaping our modern Jewish lives.
Stephanie is joined by Jewish Insider reporter Gabby Deutch, Rabbi Diana Fersko of The Village Temple, and novelist Esther Chehebar.
This week, the GOLDA Girls dive into mahjong, mohel microcelebrities, and the massive amount of money pouring into the bagel business. Plus, they answer your burning questions about Jewish life.
GOLDA Girls is presented by Nu Reads, a new Jewish book subscription series curated by the Jewish Book Council that brings remarkable literature straight to your door. Use code NuGolda at checkout for 15% off. Visit NuReads.org to get started today.
This week’s episode is also sponsored by:
- Influenced, an outrageous new comedy starring Jill Kargman. Influenced opens Friday, May 8 in New York City before expanding to select cities nationwide! Watch the trailer and reserve your tickets now at InfluencedMovie.com.
- Joyva, the iconic confectioner that’s been making treats for our Jewish tables since 1907. Stock up on halva, tahini, and marshmallow twists today.
GOLDA Girls is a production of GOLDA Media. Our executive producer is Ariel Shapiro. Production services provided by POLDHU.
Subscribe to GOLDA’s newsletter at www.goldaguide.com and follow GOLDA on Instagram at @goldaguide.
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Hey there, you're about to hear our brand new podcast, Golda Girls. But first, I want to tell you about our very special presenting sponsor, New Reads, a new Jewish book subscription service that brings remarkable literature straight to your door. I am so excited to be partnering with New Reads. I'm a subscriber already and I love it. Curated by the Jewish Book Council, this collection features some of my favorite authors, like Allegra Goodman, Sam Sussman, and more. A subscription to New Reads makes the perfect Mother's Day gift for the mom, wife, aunt, or special person in your life. With Newreads, she won't just be getting books, she's getting access to exclusive experiences with authors and a community built on a shared passion for Jewish storytelling. What is better than that? Newreads is offering Golda Girls listeners 15% off their subscriptions. Just use the code NUGOLDA at checkout. That's n-g-o-l-d-a. Visit Newreads.org to get started today. Now let's get to the show. Welcome to Golda Girls, a new podcast for Jewish women with a lot to say. I'm Stephanie Budnick, the founder of the Jewish lifestyle site Golda, and I am so excited to be back behind the microphone. Before founding Golda, I hosted the Hit Jewish Podcast Unorthodox for nearly a decade. And now I'm back with a new show that meets the moment. Golda Girls brings together an all-star group of Jewish women to discuss the issues facing our community each week. From the headlines dominating our feeds to the dramas lighting up our group chats, we'll be talking culture, community, identity, and the everyday moments shaping our modern Jewish lives. I can't wait to tell you about my co-hosts. I've enlisted three of the smartest, most thoughtful Jewish women I know who each bring their own expertise and perspective. And now I'm gonna introduce you to them. We have Gabby Deutsch, the senior national correspondent and Jewish insider, and our go-to expert in all the news rocking the Jewish world. Welcome, Gabby. Hello, I'm so excited to be here. And we have Diana Fersko, the senior rabbi of the village temple in Manhattan. Welcome, Diana.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Love you, love Golda, love all things Jewy.
SPEAKER_02Love it. And finally, Esther Shahabar, one of my favorite contemporary novelists. She has her eye on all things art and culture. Hi, Esther. Hi, Steph. So happy to be here. This is so much fun. I'm so thrilled to be doing this with you. Here's how the show is gonna work. Each week we'll be sharing the things we can't stop thinking about. Then we'll be answering your questions in something we like to call Ask Golda. And then we end the show on a sweet note with Good for the Jews, highlighting the bright spots in Jewish life today. Before we get to the show, ladies, Golda Girls, Golda Gals, since this is our first episode, I've been talking a lot, I've introduced myself. Like, I would love for our audience to get to know each of you a little bit more. Tell us a little bit about yourselves and what you're bringing to this new universe that we are creating, the Golda Girls Multiverse.
SPEAKER_04I'll go first. Hi everyone, I'm Gabby. I'm so pumped to be here. Longtime Stephanie fan and new and very excited, Diana and Esther fan as well. I'm a journalist with Jewish Insider. I live in Washington, DC, but I grew up in the Jewish capital of the world, and that is not Jerusalem. It is not Tel Aviv. It is not even New York City. It is Boca Ratone, Florida. Um, and I can't wait to be talking with everyone about all the ways that we love being Jewish. Straight out of Boca.
SPEAKER_01Hi, I'm Esther Shahebar. I am the author of the novel Sisters of Fortune and the children's book, I share my name. I live in New Jersey with my husband and three kids, but I grew up in the other uh Jewish capital of the world, which is Brooklyn, New York. Um, and I'm so excited to be here and to be with Gabby and Diana and Stephanie and be a I'm a Golden Girl for life. We'll cut that out.
SPEAKER_00No, we are keeping that. Golden Girls for life. It's funny because I was going to be asked to be called a Golden Woman, you know, but um Golden Girls is better because it's alliterative, so that's good too. I am Diana Fersco, as you mentioned, I am a rabbi of a congregation in downtown Manhattan. And I would just say, you know, I've been a rabbi for about 15 years, all of it in New York City. I feel like I'm on the front lines of liberal Judaism in lots of ways, which has been a very exciting and intense place to be. And I just can't wait to have these conversations with such brilliant colleagues.
SPEAKER_02You know, it's funny because the three of you are each people that I like to text when certain things happen or when I want to get like a read on something. And I just sort of had this realization that like not everyone gets to text the three of you. Um, and wouldn't it be nice to sort of bring our conversations, bring the conversations that that Jewish women really are having everywhere at their dining tables, at school drop-off, at Mahjong night. Like everyone is talking about these, these, these everyday moments in our lives that feel really indicative of bigger things going on. And I feel like there's a lot out there that focuses on like the big, the news, the this, but like I really wanted to do what it is that we are doing all the time, right? Which is really looking at these like very small moments that are actually so symbolic and so much more meaningful. I'm so grateful to all of you, to each of you for agreeing to do this with me. This feels like like we're forming a supergroup right now. We all come in with different perspectives, opinions, experiences, and then we can sort of like have these conversations and also let you know our listeners, our audience in on that conversation too. And I love that. All right, so let's talk about like what's going on this week. I have to say, something I cannot stop thinking about is Mahjong. Um, last night was our second Golden Mahjong night, another sold-out. 50 women on the Upper East Side at the Breads Bakery after hours. And I think there's like something really magical going on with Mahjong. Obviously, this is like the trend story of the moment. There was a big piece in the Wall Street Journal about it last week about how like Mahjong is this game of the moment. And I guess I just want to ask who's playing here? Like, let's get into this.
SPEAKER_01So I am playing reluctantly. Wow. Um, yeah, I well, I I should say I grew up with a mom and a grandma who were religious about their card games. They played Bridge and Canassa, they did not play Mahjong, although they do now. But I think I always had a complicated relationship with the idea of like a steady card game. And then I was sort of like roped into this Monday night gathering of women in New Jersey, near where I live, who are all like really religious about their mahjong game. It varies because I think some people are like super serious about the game. There's very little talking, which I suck at. Um, and so I've had to sort of like adapt to my environment. But it's been so surprising to see this. I mean, my niece, who is 12, is like an expert mahjong player. All of her friends play. I cannot believe the amount of like young girls and boys, frankly, that are that are playing mahjong. Um, and I I know that to be honest, I can't pinpoint exactly what is so alluring about it. Yeah, it's definitely seen like a meteoric rise.
SPEAKER_00There's this Rav Cook quote that's coming into my head, which is something like, I'm sorry, like I have to apologize, but that is literally what this is just This is your job. Tell us who Rav Cook is an extremely important um rabbi, thinker, leader, um, in terms of Erit Israel. And what he said, I'm paraphrasing, was something like, what's old shall become new, and what's new shall become holy. And that's like kind of what's happening with mahjong, right? It's like it used to be for oldies, and and I say that in a loving way, like your booby would play mahjong, and now it's become for young people too, and it's like new again. And it's a little bit of sacred time, like that precious time where you're not on your evil, you know, phone and you're looking at people face to face and your hands are busy and you're socializing, but you're also doing something else while you're socializing. So I think it's almost like become a precious ritual in the Jewish community, and I'm like a hundred percent here for it.
SPEAKER_04I have not yet learned to play Maj, but all of my friends are playing, and I have in the back of my mind uh something that my mother shared with me, and um, I suppose she'll be able to fact-check this story, but at least as I remember it, she has my grandmother's mahjong tiles, her mother-in-law, my my father's mom, who was a religious mahjong player, and she passed away about a decade ago, and her daughter got the mahjong set after, but then she never played, so she said to my mom, You can have this. My mom doesn't play mahjong, and she said to me and to my twin sister, whoever learns mahjong first gets Bubby's Mahjong tiles. And um, now I almost regret saying this on the air because my sister's going to listen, and now we're gonna be motivated to compete and learn first and see who's better to get this mahjong set that um is apparently quite nice. So now I'm I'm highly motivated. I'm putting it out there into this podcast so I will be held accountable.
SPEAKER_02By the way, that's like the ultimate inheritance, like whoever gets the mahjong set. I feel like that's like the next great Jewish American novel is about like the mahjong set, right? And it's like we get the bubble, you get grandma's story, we get this. Um, but like what's coming up here is like it's so the I think the magical thing about Mahjong obviously started in China um in the 1800s. It's developed as like a you know a game that's really, really important there. American businessmen sort of like bring it back, um bring it over here. They start playing. Um, and this is my favorite detail, which is that there are a bunch of different versions of Mahjong at this time being played in the country because people are just starting to play on their own. And everyone has different rules here. Um, and so the Jewish women, the Jewish ladies of New York City, our forebears, my forebears, actually we're not all in New York City right now, but um, they basically say, like, we need to standardize the rules. Everyone's playing with different rules in this country, it's crazy. Um so they nationalize the game. They basically create the National Mahjong League. That's the version that most Americans this is what you're playing. And like to me, I'm like, I love it. This group of Jewish ladies just being like, let's just make some order here. Like, here we're gonna set the rules. This is what we're gonna do. You know, one of our instructors last night at our Golden Mahjong night brought this up and said, like, she was sort of like, it's so fun for me to be teaching here in New York City, where it like feels 80, you know, 89 years later. And I kind of love this. It's a cross-cultural story, it's a cross-generational story. And at our first mahjong night last month, I went around to people. Um, I had my pink Instagram mic, and I said, So what why mahjong why now? And these a few threads came up. Some people were like, you know, hearing the tiles makes me think of my Bubby. Like, I remember her playing, I hear the tiles. And then there's some people who are like, um, I don't want to be on my phone. I want to be like out. I want to be with, I want to be with people, I want to be sitting at a table, I want my brain to be engaged. I was thinking about all of this, and I brought this actually to like the leading historian on material culture who is Jenna Weissman Jocelyn. I said to her, I was like, what do you think about Mahjong? Because she studies, you know, in Jewish American tradition, like where these things come from, where they go. And I said, I said, these are the things people are saying. What what is the like what's the missing piece? Like, what tell me what you think? And she says, it's not fraught. And I just thought it was so brilliant. She said, nothing about this game, it's not fraught. There's so much in our lives right now, particularly in our Jewish lives, that actually sitting down to play like a tile game is so nice.
SPEAKER_00I think it's a historical reality, also. Like, I I was reading this scholarly book this morning about um the daily lives of women in early modern Europe. And in the book, there are these different images. They're like plates from various uh manuscripts. And one of them is of women playing cards, uh Jewish women playing cards on Rosh Kodash. And it's like the mahjong of the 18th century, you know. I think that like women's group socializing, leisure pastimes has long been, you know, sort of like soft sisterhoods, you know. It's always been, yeah, it's always been a part of the way Jewish women relate to each other. And I I agree with Jenna. It's like it's a beautiful part that's not overly complicated.
SPEAKER_04My reference point, or perhaps first reference point for Mahjong, is the movie Crazy Bridge Asians, which is fantastic. Not Jewish at all, but there's this amazing scene towards the end of the movie where the big confrontation happens in a Mahjong parlor. And I think it it proves the point about Mahjong not being fraught because all of the women are sitting there, they're so relaxed, and this woman comes in to basically have this big fight. And the idea that it's happening over Mahjong is like so crazy that anyone would think to do that. And everyone else basically just went back to playing afterwards. Um, and I love the idea of a little bit of petty drama, petty interpersonal drama, but not political drama, not the bigger stuff that's dividing us, but like, yeah, we're gonna just, you know, do some gossip and um talk about our lives. I love that. We need more of that.
SPEAKER_01And it doesn't feel as frivolous as like going to lunch, where sometimes like the main objective can be gossiping, and so you don't exactly know what's gonna come out of your mouth, and it's kind of like this wide open space of at some times, like la song hurrah. I think with mahjong, because you're forced to like use your mind in another way, it strips a layer of of gossip. Like you're gossiping, but it's like you said, it's more petty, it's less heavy, and it doesn't seem like the full objective of the day or the evening.
SPEAKER_02Okay, mahjong, that's what's on my mind this week and every week. Esther, what can you not stop thinking about?
SPEAKER_01So, for whoever's been paying attention to New York magazine this week, um, it's been a big week for circumcision and talk about the practice, a sort of profile of the Tri-State area's most in-demand moh, who does up to 10 Britney Law circumcisions a week. I, for one, did not anticipate the tsunami of negativity that was gonna come out of this one. Um that was sarcasm that didn't come across.
SPEAKER_04Well, what what was the negativity? I saw the story, and maybe this is a rare moment where I am not in the depths of the internet, but what what are people saying about him?
SPEAKER_01I mean, just how barbaric the whole tradition of circumcision is, how babies don't have a religion, and how this is completely animalistic, and you know, all the things that you might expect, even though circumcision is it's largely identified with Judaism, of course, but it's not a uniquely Jewish tradition, right? Other religions, including Islam, correct me if I'm wrong, circumcise their babies, right? Is that correct? Yes, correct. People do it for various health reasons, and of course, circumcision has seen a decline in popularity. I think like it was like 80% of men in the US were circumcised uh in the 1960s, and that's as of like 2022, that number has fallen to like 49%, which is a pretty shocking decline. So, Esther, tell us about this Moel article. Um, Rabbi Eliezer uh is this Moel who works in the in the tri-state area, and he is really excited and proud of what he does. He's super in demand. He travels, you know, from New Jersey to Brooklyn. He's done destination brisses, and I was surprised that people actually spoke to New York Mack for this article, or that he was so enthusiastic to be profiled here.
SPEAKER_02He seems so sweet. Like the article art is just a bunch of selfies of him with like the families after the brisses. It's like the sweetest thing. And when I saw it, I was like, wait, I know the other famous Moyle who actually he trained from, which I feel like this was a staple of like Jewish media. Philip Sherman, who was like the actor Moyle, um, which is very he was like literally had a role on Orange as the New Black, and that was like his thing. He did my sister's two brisses, and so it's like very wild. But then it turns out he let Rabbi Eliezer Lawrence shadow him. So then he sort of becomes like the big guy, and then actually um Rabbi Philip Sherman passed away a few years ago. But it's like this wild economy of brisses. Like if you actually think about it, how many brisses are happening in the Jewish community?
SPEAKER_01I was actually surprised he only did 10 a week. So in our in the Syrian community, we do have also like our own version of like a celebrity Mohel, I guess. I won't say his name here, but I I'm pretty sure he does like three brisses a day. And it's like from the second that baby comes out of you, and you know you you text him right away. Um, and so yeah, I mean it's a huge, it's a huge economy, it's a very weighty responsibility, of course. I was actually surprised to see that this Mohel had a theater background, uh but then I wasn't. Then I was like, oh, that that makes sense. There's some overlapping skills that that come into play there.
SPEAKER_02Well, because you have to like entertain a crowd of people. You have to be able to do that.
SPEAKER_01Or there to watch like strange things happen. I mean, I have two boys, and I know speaking from personal experience, I was I like disassociated the day of their brisses. I mean, it's not a fun morning. Maybe it was for you know some other people, but uh the mohel, he was really sweet. He came over the day before the briss and like inspected my babies and calmed me down and reassured me. It's a very tenuous experience. I mean, it's beautiful, but it's also uh the mohel has to be a very steady, uh reassuring presence. And yeah, this guy does seem like he's having a great time and he's able to have like this chumminess about him, this sense of humor, which I thought was like very refreshing, actually.
SPEAKER_04The question that I had, Esther, you said you were a little surprised you talked to the press, but he's a freelancer. He's gotta get his name out there. It talked about his website where he describes himself and he admits that of course there's not really a way to track this as the highest-rated moyle in the tri-state area. And first of all, who's leaving a Yelp rating after their son's bris? Are people doing that? Now I'm dying to know.
SPEAKER_02I barely wrote thank you notes when my kids were born. They're girls, so we didn't even have a brisk, but like I can't imagine that being like high on the list of things to do.
SPEAKER_01Also, like there should be like a reverse statue of limitation where like you wait a certain amount of time to leave a review, right? You can't leave one right after.
SPEAKER_02And the boy himself has to leave the review.
SPEAKER_01Following, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Did you have a big party with like so okay? So you're the only one here who has boy children, Esther. Did you have like a big briss?
SPEAKER_01I had a really big party for my first son. We had a big briss. I think it was there was over 300 people there. Um, which was small by Serbian standards, just you know, a small get-together. I did obviously, I don't think most moms are like present for the actual Brit Mila. They have this room that you go into with my sisters and my best friend uh were with me. My mom was in the room. We have this tradition where I don't know if this is um similar to Ashkenazi tradition where the mother and mother-in-law, so the two grandmas, walk the baby on a pillow towards the sandak and the mohel. And my mother, who is 4'11, although she'll swear up and down that she's five feet and wears seven-inch platforms wherever she goes, like even to work out, I swear to God, refused to wear flats. And so she she walked my six-pound child. It was an up and down day, emotionally speaking.
SPEAKER_00I will say that I did not read the article in New York Magazine initially because I unsubscribed to New York Magazine like many a Jews post-October 7th, but also, and I hadn't seen it, but I was delighted when I received an email from Rabbi Eliezer himself this week. And speaking to your point, Gabby, as a freelancer, it was like a cold call. He wrote me like a lovely email and he said you might want to see this profile of me recently in New York magazine. And just so you know, like I'm available to you and your community. And um, you know what? It's really helpful because you're always looking for a good mole and someone who's reputable and trustworthy. So he's out there kind of like hustling.
SPEAKER_02So, Diana, briss wise, obviously, first bris, first circumcision back in like Abraham Isaac. We've been doing this for a long time, the covenant. But when does it become like like the 300-person party? Like it really seems like it's become sort of the way the bot mitzvah or barn bot mitzvah has, you know, mushroomed a bit culturally.
SPEAKER_00Like does everyone, I mean, so I actually think there are multiple things happening at once within the Jewish people, and it's not all we're not trending towards the 300-person bris, right? That's maybe like a common expression in more traditional communities, maybe in particularly Sephardic communities. But more what's happening in my community is families are doing circumcision in the hospital, which is not a briss. It's not the same thing. It's not by a moil, it's not in front of your community, it's a circumcision. And then maybe later they're saying, Will you do like a baby naming for my son? or let's recognize it. And that's something I try and counsel against. I would very much prefer, if it's not a health issue, that people do like a Jewish ceremony, but that's also not it. In my choice. It's up to the parents. They make the decision.
SPEAKER_04So, Diana, you feel like they're you're seeing in your community fewer people are actually having a brisk for their own.
SPEAKER_00They're still circumcising, but it's not a brisk. It's done by a doctor, a secular doctor in the hospital.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Ross Powell And it's interesting because I know a lot of people who are like, I want the doctor moyles, and there are a lot of those too. And and I think it speaks to like the sensitivity around this issue.
SPEAKER_00Comment on what you just said, because I think that's exactly right. Like people are like, but is the moyle also a doctor? And in many cases, the answer is yes. But when I worked in Brooklyn in a liberal community, actually we had a moyle from the Hasidic community, and he was the best. He was also extremely old. He also wore a black hat, and he also was cross-eyed. So it was, you can imagine the looks. And he was the best with the. I mean, he's he circumcised like half of Brooklyn. Like he was amazing. He was efficient. He was clean. You know, like I know uh now uh Rabbi Eliezer is like the top-rated moyle, but back in the day, I think this guy was like truly the best. And it was just such a culture clash of people like of liberal Jews feeling so uncomfortable with that. And you can understand why, and preferring almost a secular doctor or someone they're more familiar with than somebody who's literally done thousands and thousands of these. So it really gets at some of the trends and tensions within the Jewish community today. Like, what moil did you use? It's a funny thing.
SPEAKER_02Like, this article is this classic New York Mag piece, right? Which is quirky community figure, very New York City. He's running around, he has a website, he's like a showman. Then it goes online, then it goes on Instagram. I feel like my job, like running Golda, I'm like, I want to bring brightness into the mix, right? Jewish brightness and like the beautiful aspects of Jewish life. That's what I feel like I do. And so I do try to, you know, regulate that myself, but sometimes I look at the comments on Instagram. The comments on Instagram, specifically on this article, are horrific. This is a barbaric practice, right? You're always gonna get that, right? Then there's like the really anti-Jewish slant of it, which is like you guys name children. And then there's sort of like this pedophilia aspect of it too. It's literally like all the world's conspiracies coming together in this comment section. And it made me really sad because I was like, I actually maybe this article like shouldn't exist in a way. It was like gris for the mill for like the worst perceptions of Jews that are out there right now. And it made me really just it grossed me out, it upset me a lot.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think that's what I meant when I said that I can't believe that this mohel would speak to the press because from what we've seen from the press for the past uh two or three years, didn't we anticipate this happening? I think especially on a topic as controversial as this, there are so many anti-Semitic tropes having to do with Jews and children, so many disgusting false narratives that I won't even speak on here, but I sort of like wrestled with that in in my mind. It's like, should we shy away from highlighting this? What I saw as like a pretty unique and like interesting story, in fear of what the retaliation or the response might be. Or do we sort of put it out there and and say, you know, hey, this is who we are, and well, I think you have to, especially on the internet.
SPEAKER_04There's horrible people everywhere, there's no way around it. Probably a lot of them are not real or bots or in some random country overseas and somehow disguising their identity. But like they're gonna be around on the internet, and I think we just have to keep doing our thing. When I'm on social media and I, for better or for worse, have to tweet for my job. And for those of you who are not on X, you're probably a happier person than I am, but that's okay. And I decided at some point a long time ago, like I don't ever respond to anything anyone writes to me. If it's nice, I don't respond. Maybe I like the message. But there's no point engaging with these people, and of course that's easy to say when I don't have someone actively coming for me on the internet, because sometimes I do have people actively coming for me on the internet, and they make me really upset. But I think we just gotta do our thing and connect to each other.
SPEAKER_02And I just want to say, keep doing your thing, Rabbi Elias or Lawrence, and come on, Golden Girls. Okay, so what else are we obsessing over right now?
SPEAKER_04Well, for me, this is always on my mind, but particularly lately, bagels, of course. And if we really want to alienate some listeners early on, we can share our hottest bagel takes. Mine is that I like bagels toasted, but we're just gonna gloss right over that and I'll go into the the relevant newsworthy bagel topic, which is apparently private equity and big investors are getting all up in the bagel game, which is something that I have loosely observed being not in the bagel capital of the world. I am in Washington, D.C., where everyone here loves to complain about our lack of bagels, although I suppose lately that's changing. Uh, a couple weeks ago, pop-up bagels opened here and there were enormous lines in Georgetown. It was a huge thing. Pop-up bagels being this viral bagel place that I guess started during it started with some baker during COVID, opened a store in New York, and then investors came in and said, We want to expand this everywhere. You're like viral on TikTok. And now they've opened dozens of these locations around the country. Um, there's just a New York Times story on this a couple weeks ago about all of the cash infusion into the bagel game and places that these sort of more gourmet bagel places or places that are trying to do like interesting sandwiches, different kinds of stuff, going into cities all around the country, coming for Einstein's, for Brugers, for these places that I think for a while have been the only bagels you could really find in a lot of places at these chain stores.
SPEAKER_00I'm of two minds about it. So I will let you guys convince me. The first is like, I'm a capitalist, you know, go crazy with your private equity money. Make that bagel cash like more cream cheese to you. But my other mind is like a lot of these private equity places are like you can smell them a mile away. Because they're all the same, which is like personality-less or like soulless, you know, here in New York. Like I get a lot of my bagels just from a bodega that's like our corner store. And that has a personality. It's wrapped in tinfoil, it's greasy, it's cheap, you know, and that's like a personality I like because the bagels are delicious. So for some of, you know, not to name names, but like for some of these places, you can just see, like, okay, this is super popular right now. In 20 years, is it gonna be there? Like, no.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it reminds me of like the the Blank Street coffee sort of model where right? It's like there was one Blank Street coffee, and then all of a sudden there was literally 300, like in in one mile.
SPEAKER_02It was and by the way, you just press buttons on a machine to make all the coffee, like all the fancy coffees there. It's not like the thingy with the thingies that they do.
SPEAKER_01It's not right. It's not like I need to like walk in and like feel like emotionally invested in my barista. Like, I'm not saying that, but like I do think that this there's like a level of sterilization that definitely turns me off from certain places. I do think it depends which market you're in. Like, I think in New York, well it's different. There are some New Yorkers that can smell bullshit from a mile away, and they're like, I'm not, I wouldn't step a toe into a blank street coffee or a chain bagel place. And then I think that there's another subset of New Yorkers that are fine with it and that wanna be, I think you mentioned TikTok, like it's the TikTok vacation of food and beds, right? That wanna be in on like the social trends, that want to be seen there and you know, take a photo of whatever it is, like that the hot new item is. So I think there's a divide for sure. Personally speaking, like my family is very religious about bagels uh going so far as like we won't, you know, if if like the locks is better at one place and the bagels are good at another, we're making two stops. Like we're getting our bagels from one place, we're getting our schmears from another place, and we're getting our locks from a third place. And so I cannot imagine walking into one of these places and then and just being content. But maybe that's that's just me.
SPEAKER_02No, something I learned actually over the course of my Jewish journalism career is that saying something like toasting bagels is bad, right? Like having the the stance of like you should never toast a bagel means you're from a place where bagels are regularly, fresh bagels are regularly available to you, which puts you in one of the few pockets of like really, really active, I guess, Jewish food life. And that doesn't reflect the majority of people who are eating like a lender's bagel from the fridge and toasting it. Like so I think that there's it's important to step outside of, for me at least, right? Like I'm here on the Upper West Side where there's like a bajillion bagel places, they're all amazing. I have bagel privilege by being in New York City. And I recognize that, like, why shouldn't why shouldn't H H be available to someone else living in some other city? I think this is good.
SPEAKER_04I love that you mentioned lender's bagels because a story that my mom would tell a lot when I was growing up in Boca, she's from Canton, Ohio, which is a place with very few Jews and now next to none. Uh, but Jewish bagels. And basically zero bagels. And she didn't even realize the story that she tells is she didn't realize that bagels were like a commodity that people had feelings about until she went to college at Michigan and met Jewish girls from New York, and they were always complaining about how you couldn't get a good bagel in Ann Arbor, which probably has changed now from the 80s. But they were always complaining, and my mom's like, What do you mean? Like, I've got lender's bagels in the freezer. The bagels are right here. Um, so a bagel's a bagel, and yeah, if we're getting more people on their bagel journey now, like great, I'm in.
SPEAKER_01But I think there's also a reason for why we have such an emotional connection to bagels. Like bagels were always used to either like celebrate something or like break a fast day. So like Mother's Day, Father's Day, we had bagels, and then like Yom Kippur, breaking of the fast, his shaba up, we had bagels. And just like a funny story. My seven-year-old had to do this like about me for school. And one of the questions was, What is like a smell that makes you feel something or or that like triggers something in your whatever? And I'm thinking he's gonna say, like, the smell of my mom's kitchen or like her perfume, and he literally wrote down the smell of hot bagel bakery, our town's local um bagel shop. And I think it does have something to do with that getting it hot while you can. Um that makes that makes it special.
SPEAKER_04So can we do lightning round everyone's bagel order? Ago first, sesame bagel toasted with scallion cream cheese.
SPEAKER_00Egg, everything, not toasted cream cheese and lox. Raisin bagel, not toasted cream cheese.
SPEAKER_02Wow, we are really getting to know each other. I have a bunch of different orders for different moods. Because sometimes you want the lox bagel, sometimes you want the egg bagel. I like a pumper nickel lately a lot. I don't like a lot of schmear. I like places where you can kind of put it to whether they like played it for you, like a Barney Greengrass, right? Again, talking about my my New York bagel privilege. And I just don't want to hear any more like schmear campaign jokes in articles about bagels. Next up, we tackle one of your burning questions on Ask Golda. But first, a word from one of our sponsors. One movie I can't stop thinking about is Influenced, starring Golda Pal Jill Cargman. Influenced is an outrageous new comedy about Xanyelle, an influencer on the Upper East Side of Manhattan on her quest to reach a million followers. In the process, she finds her first real friend and her true self. Influence opens Friday, May 8th in New York City before expanding to select cities nationwide. Meet Jill Cargman in person opening weekend at Quad Cinema. I'll be doing a QA with Jill after the Saturday, May 9th, 445 showing. Watch the trailer and reserve your tickets now at influencemovie.com. Cargman leads an all-star ensemble cast, including David Crumholtz, Justin Bartha, Christine Taylor, Laura Bell Bundy, Jessica Capshaw, Eugene Cordero, and Dan Hedea, aka Share Horwitz's Dad on Clueless. Plus hilarious cameos by Drew Barrymore, Jason Biggs, Gwyneth Paltrow, and Matt Damon. Get tickets now at influencemovie.com. All right, our first Ask Golda comes from Melissa in Long Island. She writes, Dear Golda, my daughter just got her college acceptance decisions. She worked so hard in high school and gotten to several amazing colleges on her list. I couldn't be more proud of her. But her top choice is a school that has been one of the major centers of anti-Semitic incidents over the last few years. It seems like things have cooled off a little, but I'm still anxious about it. My question is twofold. How much should I really be worried about this? And is it even right for me to try and push her one way or another?
SPEAKER_00I like how there are two questions in there. One is about anti-Semitism, and the other is about parenting. I think it's a little bit of a fantasy to imagine that you can avoid anti-Semitism. I I think unfortunately, what's happened with anti-Semitism is that it's become atmospheric. It's like air, it's just kind of all over. I don't think that it's real to have the fantasy that your emerging adult child will be able to avoid anti-Semitism. So I say, like, partner with your child, arm them with all of the ideas that you believe in and be with them through whatever they face.
SPEAKER_04I think this is a huge question that the Jews, if you will, are talking about. We've all heard this. If you're dealing with an 18-year-old kid, what are the odds that that kid is going to do exactly what their parent tells them to do at any point? But especially when they have sat through the SAT, NAP classes, and done all the hard high school stuff, done the applications, got in, now they're making the choice. You can talk about it, you can raise those concerns and have a conversation. But I don't think any parent's going to say, like, actually, you can't go there. I mean, you can, you're the one probably writing the checks. But I think at a lot of these schools that have had challenges, and I've covered all of this since since right after October 7th, in many of these places, there's also a thriving Jewish community. It's not all bad. At the same time, I think that it is worth asking. There is a whole other set of questions that didn't exist. And I think you can have those conversations, but also trust that you you raised your kid to have good values and in a situation where they might face anti-Semitism.
SPEAKER_02No, I think you're totally right, Gabby. It seems like there the benefit of this has been how many schools there are were sort of raised to think of as the ones you want to go to. I think, Diana, what you're saying is really smart, which is like you can't protect your kid always. And I feel lucky, like I graduated college in 2009. There everything wasn't political in the same way it is now. At the same time, you know, I think when you do experience these things as a at a younger age, it does force you to figure out what's important to you, right? If these things are an issue on your campus, you're like, wait, what does it mean to me to be Jewish? Why is it important to me? And you're prompted to dig into it deeper. And I think maybe that leads to some people being uncomfortable and wanting to like downplay their Jewish identity. But I also think that that leads to like a more rich understanding of like the layered meanings of this is a very real question, right?
SPEAKER_00I want to like validate that this it this question makes sense. And anti-Semitism is very real and it's very scary and pervasive, especially on many college campuses. It's okay and probably healthy for lots of American Jews to reassess our relationship with our own internal assumptions of what it means to be successful. But in Melissa's example, her kid has already applied to these schools and her kid wants to go. So to me, that's a little bit of a different situation than starting from the get-go and saying, like, hey, here's where you can go. Like, that's different than you're already in the process and your child has this expectation.
SPEAKER_02All right, Melissa, keep us posted and muscle tough to you and your daughter. And now it's time to introduce our final segment, Good for the Jews. Good for the Jews is brought to you by Joiva, the iconic maker of Halva, tahini, and confections. Joiva has been making delicious treats for our Jewish tables for over a century, all out of their magical Willy Wonka-esque factory in Brooklyn. I've been there, it's amazing. Okay, so Good for the Jews. Here's how this segment's gonna work. Each of us shares something that is, despite everything going on right now, good for the Jews. It's a moment of levity and brightness where we get to spotlight something that's bringing joy into our Jewish lives. Diana, you're up first.
SPEAKER_00So, my Good for the Jews is a book I'm reading. It is called A Woman is Responsible for Everything. What a title! It is a scholarly book written by two academics, and it is a pathbreaking book in the sense that there's like this fact stated that we don't know much, if anything, about the daily lives of women in early modern Europe. Well, guess what? Two scholars had the skill and took the time, and basically it turns out we know a huge amount about the daily lives of Jewish women and early modern Europe. It's a window into women's fundraising, women's socializing, women's formal roles in the community. The detailed level that this book gets into is incredible. And I see a lot of us and what we're doing in this very podcast in this book. So a woman is responsible for everything, best title and great book.
SPEAKER_04I'll share something that is less scholarly. I have been nonstop listening lately to the new album from Noah Khan. He is Jewish. One time he referred to himself as the Jewish Ed Sheeran, for those who don't know. He is a singer-songwriter. He's from Vermont. All of his music is basically about being from New England and the changing of the seasons and winter and fall and how it all impacts our lives. And they're super emotional and amazing. And when I lived in Boston, I saw him perform at Fenway. And one of his songs he starts singing, he says, This is dedicated to all the children of divorce, to everyone who had to celebrate two Christmases, or like me, 16 Nights of Hanukkah. So I'll take the limited Jewish reference where I can, but he's Jewish. He's got this amazing new album called The Great Divide. I've been listening to it nonstop. So I recommend everyone listen to it.
SPEAKER_02I too have a pop culture reference to Jewish life that made me feel really, really happy and I felt was pretty well done, which is a recent episode of Your Friends and Neighbors, the John Hamm show on Apple TV. And there was a Seder, and it was like a factually correct satyr. And it's it's like it seems like it's so funny because I actually love the show, Nobody Wants This. I know there's like a whole level of discourse about like the Jewishness in that show. I enjoy the show. I'm gonna just say it out there. Well, you know, I think we all both love, like similarly how we're all Googling like Noah Khan Jewish, K-A-H-A-N, is it Jewish? Like we all sort of want to see Jewishness in in pop culture and get so excited when we do, but then we quickly usually get disappointed. This scene was this was sort of like categorically deemed to be correct. And the thing that is really notable about this is that they had Shmura Matzah in the scene. And I don't know that Shmuramatza has ever been on TV before. And they also they use the the yellow Haggattas that I grew up with. It's not the Maxwell house, it's the yellow with like the like brown maroon around the edges. It just felt like so nice to see that. I'm just like more satyrs on TV.
SPEAKER_00I totally agree with you. And there were levels of that scene because it was like um, they also the you don't even know the main character's Jewish, and it it's like, oh, that's so hidden. Yes, and you kind of and then the kid who's an adult like can't get through the four questions. Uh like, you know, that's also like a little bit of a critique and like a little bit too accurate in a lot of ways. Yeah, and they're like allowed, like it's imperfect in the in the real way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but the like the accuracy of the imperfection in that scene reminded me of there's a scene in Uncut Gems, the uh Benny and Josh Safety movie where Adam Sandler's family is, I think they're doing Passover too, and like the Nick game is on and everyone's just going crazy, like there's just there's this thing, right, about like Jews and basketball, and specifically like the Knicks. It's it's like such a New York idiosyncratic, like New York Jewish thing, and I loved seeing it uh in a movie. Um but you know, in the realm of pop culture, my good for the Jews is the engagement of Zoe Kravitz and Harry Styles. So if you aren't aware, we've been like inundated with very chic paparazzi photos of Zoe Kravitz and Harry Styles, like in basically matching undo seated outfits dressed by like Prada in the row. I don't know if if you haven't seen them, just go look them up, they're adorable. Um, Zoe Kravitz is of course, um, I think she's half Jewish on both sides, and she's previously identified as very Jewy, which we love. And Harry Stiles, uh, while not Jewish, um has lived with an Orthodox family. He has his sister's uh name tattooed in Hebrew on, you know, some part of his body. And he's previously expressed like an affinity for Judaism. And I just love seeing this gorgeous, endlessly cool couple together and engaged, and I celebrate their love, and I cannot wait to see. Their uh wedding outfits. And and I can't wait for the next album. That's amazing. Didn't Harry Styles have like Jewish tweets? He did. I think they were about, I think he would like, if it was like Rosh Hana or like another, like he would send out, or like Yom Kippur, I think he sent out like an easy fest to all my you know Jewish friends or something like that. I'm paraphrasing.
SPEAKER_02But I think and I think he had like Hebrew in there too, right? Like he used he said Gmar Khatima Toba. Like he actually said it.
SPEAKER_01Well his yeah, he did. Yeah, he said. So he was he was very accurate. I think he's I don't know if it's his manager um or someone someone that's very close to his team. No, no, is orthodox, and he's I mean, they're super close, and that's the person who, you know, Harry lived with like him and his wife for like over a year or something, um, and where he was like immersed in like Jewish traditions, and he's always just expressed like love for his Jewish friends, which which we love.
SPEAKER_02And I love that his father-in-law is gonna be Leonard Kravitz, like so many of us before him Leonard Kravitz.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I I I got to see Leonard Kravitz live last summer. Um, and he's just oozing Leonard Kravitz. Still got it.
SPEAKER_04That's an official, official Golden Girls decree. It's no longer Lenny Kravitz. It's Leonard. Leonard only.
SPEAKER_02I love this news, and I feel like, yes, it's gonna be like a very like sexy Jewish wedding, and I'm here for it. All right. I think I have to say, all in all, good for the Jews. I think all of this is extremely good for the Jews. Thanks for listening to the first episode of Golda Girls. I'm Stephanie Butnik, and my co-hosts are Gabby Deutsch, Rabbi Diana Fersco, and Esther Shahebar. Golda Girls is a production of Golden Media, where executive produced by Ariel Shapiro, with production services by our friends at Poldu. Our social media is by Brandon Schuster. Get more Golda at Goldeguide.com. Our twice-weekly newsletter brings you everything you need to live Jewishly today. Follow us on Instagram at GoldaGuide and tell everyone you know about your new favorite podcast. Share it, subscribe to it, shout it from the rooftops. We'll be back next week with a special interview with Jill Cardman. Until then, stay Golda.
