GOLDA Girls
A podcast for Jewish women with a lot to say.
GOLDA founder Stephanie Butnick sits down with journalist Gabby Deutch, novelist Esther Chehebar, and Rabbi Diana Fersko each week to talk culture, community, identity, and the everyday moments shaping modern Jewish life.
GOLDA Girls
GOLDA Interviews: Fran Fabriczki, Author of 'Porcupines'
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On this special episode of GOLDA Girls, Stephanie Butnick talks to author Fran Fabriczki about her novel Porcupines, which is the latest selection from Nu Reads, the Jewish book subscription series (and our show’s sponsor!). The novel tells the story of Sonia, a Jewish immigrant from Budapest, and her 5-year-old daughter Mila, a Los Angeles native looking to piece together her mom’s mysterious past.
GOLDA Girls is presented by Nu Reads, a new Jewish book subscription series curated by the Jewish Book Council that brings remarkable literature straight to your door. Use code NuGolda at checkout for 15% off. Visit NuReads.org to get started today.
GOLDA Girls is a production of GOLDA Media. Our executive producer is Ariel Shapiro. Edited by POLDHU.
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Hey Golda Gang, welcome to a special episode of Golda Girls. It's just me today, and I'm bringing you a conversation that I think you're gonna really enjoy. You've heard that our podcast is presented by New Reads, the Jewish book subscription series, and today you're gonna get a taste of what New Reads is. I'll be talking to Fran Fabritzky, whose novel Porcupines is the latest New Reads selection. Newreads subscribers got a signed copy of her book mailed to them, along with a very cute book-sized tote bag, a literary map of LA, and more. I love getting the chance to talk to Fran, whose own journey from Budapest to LA inspired a lot of the story in Porcupines, which touches on immigration, mothers and daughters, and Jewish identity. Here's our conversation. I am so excited to be here with the author of the latest New Reads selection Porcupines. I'm here talking with Fran Fabritsky. Welcome to Golda Girls. Thanks so much for having me. So I was so excited to open the New Reads box and see your book, and I was even more excited to read it. Will you tell our listeners a little bit about Porcupines?
SPEAKER_01So Porcupines is the story of a young single mother, Sonia, whose precocious daughter Mila drags her on this disastrous school trip from LA to San Francisco. And during this trip, Sonia's checkered past is revealed. It's a story of immigration. It's a family story. It plays out across continents, and it's all sort of under the long shadow cast by the Cold War.
SPEAKER_00So Sonia's a Hungarian immigrant. Mila is her American daughter, who's basically like living an American life, right? But she has a parent with a very different background from the kids, you know, she's meeting in school. And I loved this idea, the thing that Sonia tells Mila on the first day of school. Will you tell us what that warning was or what her sort of pep talk included?
SPEAKER_01Basically, she tells her that, you know, if people ask too many questions, tell them it's none of their business. And I think this is on the first page. So I really wanted uh readers to get a sense of their vibe and and what Sonia's imparting uh to her daughter as a mother, what kind of um lessons she's teaching her off the bat. It's both funny, but also I think realistic that if you're in a situation where you don't want people to know everything about your life, uh children can be kind of a bit of a hazard in that sense. So I think it's funny but also realistic.
SPEAKER_00And it's, you know, it's a scene familiar. It's obviously takes place in LA, but it's a scene familiar to anyone who has done like a school drop-off, right? Where uh there's some parents who come over and they're really, really peppy. And then you sort of have someone like Sonia who does not want to interact with like any of these people because she really is it's quite different, right? She has this past from the former Soviet Union trying to create a new life, not necessarily entirely above board, but she's sort of suspicious and skeptical of this like American friendliness community lifestyle. Definitely.
SPEAKER_01And I think uh as the book progresses, we see how Sonia, who actually started out being very excited about her new life in America, has turned into this woman who's kind of wary of this, as you say, this kind of archetypal American mom. And she kind of has realized at this point in her life that that American dream is not quite what she had in mind. And so we get to see how she's reconciling those two versions of America in her mind by the end of the book.
SPEAKER_00And what I love about the book is that it's so beautifully captures, it's obviously a very specific story about two people and Mila wondering who her dad is, all you know, everything that sort of unwinds, as you mentioned, on this school trip. But it's quite universal, right? There's a lot about like what a mother gives to her child, what a child expects from their parents. And I felt that it was quite profound in that way, that sort of like thorny relationship, that love expectation, um, and sort of what changes as your child grows up a little bit. I mean, you know, this is sort of kindergarten still, but there's a lot that's changing as as Mila is getting older.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think obviously, yeah, as you say, it's a very specific and the immigration element adds a specific dynamic to it. But then I do think that it's universal. It Mila's at that age where I think kids universally start to question their parents a little bit. I think you grow up and you sort of assume for a long time that whatever your parents tell you is correct, or there's a there's that trust. And it's I think that at that age that that kids become a little bit more questioning and rightfully, and then complications in those relationships start to develop at that age.
SPEAKER_00So I'm curious about your own story. You were you're born in Budapest, grew up in LA, now you're in London. Um you seem to sort of span continents and worlds as well. Could you tell us a little bit about your own background?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so um I was born in Hungary, and I have some family in the States, and we moved there for a while, and it was kind of it came at a really formative time in my life, my the years I spent in in the US. So for a long time I actually felt like I was American, even though I wasn't. It's an interesting process to go through when you you live and you go to school in in America and you say the Pledge of Allegiance every day, and you know, people are flying their flags, and um it it kind of sweeps you up into it. So it's kind of really always stayed with me these years in in LA, especially. And then I moved back to Hungary and then went to university in in the UK, which is where I live now, um, and have been living for for quite some time. So yeah, I can definitely write from the perspective of being a fish out of water, but just constantly always.
SPEAKER_00And I feel like that's where the best writers come from, the best stories come from.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think an outsider's perspective is always valuable and interesting and and can tell you something that you might not see even though you live in that place. So, but I'm very interested to to hear how people in LA are going to feel about their city being portrayed.
SPEAKER_00This book with this intense mother-daughter relationship actually sort of dovetailed with your own motherhood journey. I saw on Instagram you posted that like your book baby and your real baby came out very, you know, in quick succession. Could you talk to us a little bit about that timeline and also what it meant for you to be writing the book, publishing the book as you were bringing an actual baby into the world?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was kind of a crazy process. I I took such a long time to actually start writing. I always wanted to write, but I was kind of afraid of finding out that I was bad at it, so I didn't do it for a long time. And then I did find out that I was bad at it, which was which was a relief to find out because then I could start to work at getting better at it. But all of this happened around when I turned 30, so it was kind of a delay to process. And uh and so I did my MA and I started to write my um my novel and and got pregnant, and that gave me kind of the the push to finish because I had this idea that if I didn't finish the book before I gave birth, then I would never write again. I mean, obviously this isn't this isn't realistic, but in my head, I didn't know what was on the other side of that, you know, that divide. Your life is gonna change, but you have no idea exactly how that's gonna look. I thought it would just mean that I I would never be able to write again. So I decided to make a really big push for finishing the novel while I was pregnant and sending it out to agents, um, and then signed with an agent, and we did edits and we sent out the book, and basically we sold the book a week before my son was born. So it was just the maddest time ever. I don't recommend it. But um, they were really kind about giving me time to be with my son afterwards before we got down to edits with my with my publishers. It was a long process and sort of side by side with you know becoming a mother and learning all of that.
SPEAKER_00That sounds incredibly intense, but also kind of beautiful. And I'm I'm curious if becoming a parent, becoming a mother changed how you were as a writer or or made the editing process like you were a different person. Like I personally felt like after I had a kid, I'm like, nothing's hard anymore. Like I can do if I can do that, I can do anything. And then you also like can function on no sleep and like you can sort of push yourself in ways that maybe like aren't great, but you can do it. And so that to me is like something that I think of a lot with like with with Golda, right? Where I'm like, I had two babies in one year, which like maybe again, like not recommended, but kind of amazing. So I'm wondering like if your superpower made you would, you know, a better writer, better editor, or what.
SPEAKER_01I feel like I'm proud of myself. That sounds strange, but I am proud of myself and what what I've achieved, what I what my body's done and what my brain has done on, you know, as you say, on very little sleep. I edited this novel and you know, wrote like large chunks of it while my son was a an infant and and not sleeping through the night. Um, so I think you you start to appreciate your abilities more. And also you kind of get on with stuff. There was a lot more before I had my son of I don't know if I can today, I don't know if I can, I have the f the vibes alright, you know. And uh and now it's just like get down to work because this is the amount of time I have, this is how much childcare I have today. So I'm gonna get to my seat, do my writing, get it done, and then you know, move on. And it's strips away, I think, a layer of like self-consciousness that you that you allow to creep in when you have more energy to dither and overthink things. And I don't have time for that anymore. I'm just like, I is this good? I don't know. I'm I'm doing it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's like an efficiency that you get, especially because you're like, this is the time, this is the moment, this is the minute that this has to get done. And so, like, this email might not be perfect, this sentence might not be perfect, but we'll figure it out. And I think you should be proud of yourself. And I love that you sort of like, I feel like we couch it as like, I'm proud of myself. I know that sounds crazy, but like you should be proud of yourself that you you did this, and it's it's so good. And it and the the really special thing is that this book is about a mother and a child. And so I also want to know like, did you did your perspective shift? Obviously, you didn't have, you know, a five-year-old the way the way Sony does in the book, but do you think being a parent like made this gave it some kind of authenticity for the editor? Like, is there something you sort of imbued back into the book once you became a parent, or does did that not really like factor into your thinking?
SPEAKER_01It sort of did and didn't. I think the perspective I was writing from originally was kind of, you know, I was trying to channel what it felt like to be in the head of a child rather than in that relationship. So I was kind of viewing Sonia from the perspective of of Mila and with, you know, with that kind of awe that a child can have for their mother. But yeah, I I did write a few uh little bits here and there into the book afterwards about Mila being a young child because I had that experience and it was so potent at the time that I felt like I really wanted to um put that in there and and represent it on paper. And another thing was interesting is that I had like such a greater appreciation for Sonia as a single mother. I'm not a single mother, but just knowing how difficult it is to raise a child, uh all of all that it involves, even if you have support, and then to realize, you know, as my own mother was a single mother, how just how difficult that must have been. I think it gave me a greater appreciation for that character and for that struggle.
SPEAKER_00And no, and I think that the portrayal of Sonia is quite empathetic, and you realize this is a woman who's trying to make her own life and make sense of her own life, and then also has this child. She has this great line where she says, I have fed her and I have loved her, and for now that feels like enough. And I think for me that that was a very powerful, obviously, this doesn't take place in this moment where we're in this like hyper parenting culture, everything must be perfect and the snacks must be cute and this and that. But it felt like a quite a profound insight.
SPEAKER_01Hmm. Yeah, and I I've actually been asked before regarding the book what I thought a good mother is, um, and whether Sonia's a good mother. And I brought up that line, which I think that is the baseline. And that's if that's where you're starting from, you're already a good mother. And I think, you know, it's worth reminding ourselves of that. But I think also obviously there's complexity in the book about whether Sonia is is a good mother. She's um obviously makes mistakes, but I think, yeah, the point is that there's this baseline. You have fed her, you have loved her, and and those are the main things.
SPEAKER_00There's obviously a lot of cultural differences that happen from, you know, Sonia's own childhood than coming to America, but there's also a real uh Jewish component to that, right? This idea of coming to America and realizing that like everyone's kind of so much more Jewish, or being Jewish is so much more of a thing for her. And I'm I'm curious, not that everything in novels have to do with the author's experience, but like if you could speak to us a little bit about that in your own life and then then how you sort of uh brought that into the book as sort of yet another layer of culture clash, even for Jews within the Jewish community.
SPEAKER_01While I was writing the novel, I was thinking a lot about the irony of what does freedom mean to people and and creating a character for whom freedom means uh being religious. And, you know, I don't think that's how we conceive of it today. Often people think of religion today as constricting. And so I wanted to represent a character for whom that's freedom from a system, obviously socialist Hungary, where religion was kind of frowned upon or restricted in many ways. So for her, you know, the American dream, the freedom, is different to what uh it is for Sonia. That comes from experience in some ways. Uh, while I was living in in LA, that's the time in my life where I was most uh in touch with my Judaism. There's much more of a an open Jewish community in the US, obviously, you experience it than than there is in in Hungary or um or in the UK, I think. Um definitely as I was growing up, that was the case. In in Hungary, actually, there's a quite a thriving uh Jewish scene now, which is nice to see, but it hasn't always been the case.
SPEAKER_00Another way we sort of see characters holding on to or trying to shed identity is through names. And I love that that Sonia tells Mila, like if anyone asks, your name is not Russian, you're not Russian, I just like the name. Tell them your mom liked the name. And I thought that was very interesting. And then I want to talk a little bit about your name because here on Zoom I see Fran, but that is like that doesn't tell the full story of your name. So what's tell us your full name?
SPEAKER_01So my full name is Franciszka Ergybeth Fabritsky. Um, it's quite a mouthful. Um, actually, in Hungarian, you say the last name first, so it would even be more complicated. Wait, so what would that be? So it's Fabritsky, Franciszka Ergybeth. So last name, uh, first name, middle name, which is obviously not the middle name in Hungarian. Now I I've I've gone with Fran for a long time. I I I got the nickname when I lived in in LA. Actually, uh a schoolmate of mine just decided to call me Fran because it was easier, and then that became my sort of like American identity in my mind, if that makes sense. And it stuck with me. And then I moved back to Hungary and then had to read introduce myself to Hungarians as Fran, because that was me now. So it's a it's a strange one for sure. Um, and I did think about whether I should use my full name to publish to not shy away from representing where I'm coming from. But to be honest, I couldn't handle the idea of every time I'm interviewed having my name kind of butchered. But maybe there's something more uh to dig into there, some some sort of Fordian analysis of what.
SPEAKER_00It's on one line.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. I mean the alliteration is nice anyway. But uh thank you.
SPEAKER_00Um so yeah, that's that's what we went with. I'm so interested to hear about what happened when you found out that you were going to be a new roots pick and how you feel about this as sort of a way to get your book out to audiences who have a real, real interest and craving for Jewish stories, and particularly a story like this, which is a complicated Jewish story, right? Which has layers of complications, right, about what it means to be Jewish and where and why and and and when, really.
SPEAKER_01It's an honor, but it actually, one of the things that I was nervous about writing the book is how it was going to be received among Jewish readers. Because as I was writing it, at first I kind of tried to write Jewish characters that I'd seen on TV and I'd seen sort of, I'd read elsewhere, you know, American Jewish characters that have become sort of archetypes or stereotypes, and it had just seeped into my mind. It it was not good writing because it wasn't coming from my Jewish experience. So then I had to dig a bit deeper and um find out all the sort of uh tricky parts of how I relate to Judaism as well, and try to represent that through my characters. So for that reason, I was a little nervous about how it was going to be received and whether it felt accurate. So to have it be chosen uh for the new reads book subscription, it felt like a relief that I know at least these readers who are going to receive it are already have that stamp of approval on it. It just it just means a lot to know that that there will be a kind of built-in Jewish audience. It's also important to say that publishing is a business and for a writer to continue to write, they need readers and they need to sell books. And I think it's not to be underestimated how powerful it is to have a subscription box uh get behind you like this as a debut author. It it enables me to continue doing what I'm doing. So I'm really appreciative.
SPEAKER_00Readers are discovering your wonderful book through new reads. I wanted to give you the opportunity to shout out any authors or books that were particularly important to you as you wrote this or any other, you know, Soviet Jewish stories that you think, you know, our listeners should be reading or checking out.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh, yeah, so many books. One very influential book was Gary Steingart's memoir, Little Failure. I love that book. It's a memoir, so it's um it's actually the story of how he moved from the Soviet Union to America. And it's just it's so funny, and it's got such great details about um life in the Soviet Union and also his immigrant parents, and and it's just very layered and textured, and you can kind of feel like you're there with him. I think um Melissa Bank, she wrote these kind of short stories, novels of interconnected short stories, and um they weren't like overtly Jewish, but they always had a Jewish element in them. And I think I learned a lot from the way she wove um Jewish life into the stories kind of seamlessly. Those are the ones I can think of right now.
SPEAKER_00That sounds amazing. Well, Fran Frobitsky, Mazel Tove on Porcupines, and for being uh chosen as the latest New Reads book. And I'm so excited to read everything else you have uh coming to us in what I know will be a long and fruitful career. Thank you so much. Thanks so much to Fran for chatting with me. It's especially moving to hear how meaningful it is to her to be selected as a New Reads pick and what it means for her career. Subscribing to New Reads is a great way to show your commitment to Jewish literature and Jewish storytelling, and it means you'll get great books like Franz delivered to your door. GoldenGirls listeners can get 15% off a subscription to New Reads to get books like Franz, access to author events, and so much more. Head to newreads.org, that's n-u-r-e-a-d s dot org, and use code NewGolda, N U G O L D A at checkout. I know you're gonna enjoy it. We'll be back on Friday with your regularly scheduled Golden Girls episode. Until then, stay Golda.
