GOLDA Girls
A podcast for Jewish women with a lot to say.
GOLDA founder Stephanie Butnick sits down with journalist Gabby Deutch, novelist Esther Chehebar, and Rabbi Diana Fersko each week to talk culture, community, identity, and the everyday moments shaping modern Jewish life.
GOLDA Girls
Cheesecake, Congress, and Joan Rivers with Julie Klausner
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GOLDA founder Stephanie Butnick and her co-hosts—journalist Gabby Deutch, novelist Esther Chehebar, and Rabbi Diana Fersko—discuss how Shavuot became all about cheesecake and explore the Jewish implications of the race to replace longtime New York Congressman Jerry Nadler. Special guest Julie Klausner joins the show to answer a listener question in Ask GOLDA.
This week’s Good for the Jews picks:
Stephanie: Zabars and JCC Manhattan’s Literie candle collab.
Gabby: The musical Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat.
Diana: Mabel’s Labels for camp packing.
Esther: Costco kosher cheesecake and Strokes guitarist Nick Valensi.
Upcoming GOLDA Events:
Tuesday, May 26 — New York City: GOLDA Mahjong Night is back on the Upper East Side for mahjong mavens, newcomers, and everyone in between! Sign up here.
Wednesday, May 27 — New York City: Join GOLDA for the kickoff event in our series at The Harmonie Club. Stephanie Butnick will be talking to three contemporary Jewish writer Rachel Kadish (The Weight of Ink), Menachem Kaiser, (Plunder), and GOLDA Girls co-host Esther Chehebar (Sisters of Fortune)—about their work and the rich tradition of Jewish storytelling. Sign up here.
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This episode is also sponsored by:
- The Mindich Fellowship for Jewish Fiction, part of Miami Book Fair’s Emerging Writer Fellowship. If your novel or fiction project centers Jewish life, culture, or themes, this is an incredible year-long opportunity to develop that work in community. Apply by May 31, 2026 at miamibookfair.com/program/emerging-fellows/.
- Joyva, a fourth generation family business that crafts tahini, halvah and confections in Brooklyn, NY. Get your deliciousness today.
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GOLDA Girls is a production of GOLDA Media. Our executive producer is Ariel Shapiro. We’re edited by POLDHU.
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Shavuot and a Very Jewish Election
SPEAKER_06Before we get to today's show, I want to tell you about our presenting sponsor. New Reads is a Jewish book subscription service that brings remarkable literature straight to your door. Curated by the Jewish Book Council, this collection features some of my favorite authors like Allegra Goodman, Sam Sussman, and more. With New Reads, you're not just getting books, you're getting access to exclusive experiences with authors and a community built on a shared passion for Jewish storytelling. New Reads is offering GoldaGirls listeners 15% off their subscription. Just use the code NUGOLDA at checkout. Visit Newreads.org. That's n-u-re-a-d-s.org to get started today. Welcome to GoldaGirls, the podcast for Jewish women with a lot to say. I'm Stephanie Butnick, the founder of Golda, and I'm joined by three of the smartest women I know. My co-hosts are novelist Esther Shahabar. Good morning. Journalist Gabby Deutsch of Jewish Insider. Hello, happy Shavuah. We've heard you're the ultimate Jewish Insider. I'll take it if you say so. And Rabbi Diana Fersco. Shabbat Shalom. We'll also be joined later on in the episode by special guest Julie Klosner, the writer, comedian, and podcaster. She'll be helping us out answering a listener question in our Ask Golda segment. So the way the show works is we start with the things we can't stop talking about, then we help a listener figure out something that's going on in their lives, and then we end the show with something sweet and good for the Jews. But before we get to the show, I need to tell all of you that Diana and I we saw each other last night. We did. It was glorious. I feel like I need to like come clean about that. We were both at the Marlene Meyerson JCC Manhattan Annual Benefit. It was like a real fun party at the JCC on the Upper West Side.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And we were both pulling double duty, like there as participants, but also you were covering it with your pink microphone, which was amazing.
SPEAKER_02And um I was there as a future employee where I'll be the chief officer of Jewish life there starting July 15th. So it's pretty exciting.
SPEAKER_06Okay, so this was amazing. So I brought my little pink mics and I did these sort of like I think of them as like Joan Rivers style, uh like red carpet interviews, um, but I do them at a lot of different events. It's so much fun. But it's especially fun here because my daughter is in preschool at the JCC. And so like to be in the gym that was like all decorated for the event was just like, it was like very emotional for me. Um, but it was a really fun night, and we missed you guys.
SPEAKER_04Well, I'm gonna give a shout out to Diana as well. Yeah. All of my Golden Girls co-hosts are equally fabulous in many very special ways. But after our last episode, when I was talking about how I wanted to do more to study the Parsha and how I had been failing and frankly, not very trying, not trying very hard at this goal that I had set for myself. I checked my email when we finished recording and I had a Google Calendar invite from one Rabbi Diana Frisco inviting me to a 30-minute partial study session over Zoom. So um, not to brag, but I do have my own personal review now. So thank you, Diana.
SPEAKER_01Be careful what you ladies say on this. Literally, she's listening.
SPEAKER_00It will be followed up on. Um, I would also like a Zoom invite.
SPEAKER_01Okay, we're talking about uh Ruth in honor of Shavuot. So you're in.
SPEAKER_00I accidentally attended a Torah class yesterday. That literally never happens. I I thought I was going to a round robin tennis tournament, um, which I was, but then like in the middle of it at 12:30, there was a Torah class taught, you know, on Shabuat. Clever um by a woman named Melanie Um Zilberman that my husband went to high school with. And it was amazing, and I really enjoyed it. And I I was like, oh, I miss this. Like I miss, I miss learning. And I am totally going into Shabua with a new uh appreciation and some new some new tidbits to share at the table. So that's fun.
SPEAKER_06And how did you do in the tournament?
SPEAKER_00I only played one set, um, and I I won, but I didn't play well. But that's a story for another time. There was there was lunch, everybody made something except me. I would have, but I wasn't. It was I didn't know. I didn't know. I thought it was it was it was great. It was it was a it was a full service event.
SPEAKER_06Okay, so I do want to talk about shavuot. I mean, there's like, first of all, a million ways to say it. There's shavuot, there's shavuist, which my grandpa says, like there's like like I mean, Esther, how do you say it? Shavuot. Shavuot. Because I feel like you say things a little bit differently, and I want to be, you know, we're open to all of this. Um but okay, here's my hot take. Shavuot is one of those things which sort of separates like people who are more observant for people who from people who are not, right? Like it's the kind of thing that for some Jews, a lot of Jews, it's like not a thing, right? You don't really know what it is. Um, and then for others, it's like, of course, you know exactly. And Diana, I'm gonna make you explain everything in a second, but like here's my hot take. I feel like now it's the cheesecake holiday, and like that's it's the thing. It's like it got a food angle, and now everyone's like, cheesecake, I can do this. And so, like, do we is this a thing? Do we think that like there's a r there's a cheesecake efication of shabuot that's I don't know. There's no moral, yeah. I don't know. But it's like I feel like everyone's talking about it now.
SPEAKER_00Well, as Jews, I think we we have a tendency to like assign food to certain holidays. Rosheshanaz, obviously way more well-known, I think, widely celebrated holiday, but it's the apple and honey holiday, right? Um I think the cheese cakeification of the holiday is interesting. Um, I forgot at least the reason for why we eat dairy on Shavuat, which I'll I'll I'll throw that to you, Diana.
SPEAKER_06But um I love, by the way, this is so fun having a rabbi on the show.
SPEAKER_02I'll just give like a 10-point, you know, PowerPoint slide and with a Google invite. Well we got to a follow-up. Okay. So here here goes Shavuot in like 30 seconds or less. Um I'm good. I I'm good with the cheesification, I don't know that word, um, of Shavuot. I like any holiday associated with a delicious Jewish food, and I like things that promote Jewish attendance. I'm gonna give the very boring reason for why what you're describing is true, Stephanie, that like half, if not more, of American Jews are a little bit unaware of Shavuot. And it's a very mundane reason, which is because it's in the summer and it's after it is, it's usually in June, and it's often after American Hebrew schools end. So, yeah, it's really boring and sad that that's the reason, but it is a good reason. It's not celebrated um through Hebrew schools often, or it's kind of like at the end when everyone's a little bit checked out. And so it hasn't been as pronounced in Merrick American Judaism um in the liberal world, which is really a shame because you could argue it's actually the most important holiday on the Jewish calendar where we get the Ten Commandments and the Torah itself. So, I mean, uh, like if cheesecake helps people to get to Torah, tennis worked for Esther, like why not cheesecake for the rest of us?
SPEAKER_04Diana, can can you tell us? Um, I'm just I'm putting on like my journalist interviewer hat, and the interviewee is you, the rabbi. Um so we get the 10 commandments. Can you give us 30 more seconds on what chivu out is for those of us who perhaps did not celebrate it as much as children? And why do we eat dairy? I mean, I love dairy. A lot of Jews don't do well with dairy, I'll say it.
SPEAKER_02So, like, the shortest answer is no one actually knows exactly why we eat dairy, but here are some answers, anyways. It was so Jewish. Yeah. I mean, the eating of dairy has been recorded since the 13th or 14th century, and it's been associated with Shavuot. So, um, you know, it's not ancient ancient for Jewish tradition, but it's not newish either. And um, some of the reasons are this like association with the land flowing with milk and honey, right? This idea that um we got the Ten Commandments, and while we were sorting out all the laws of Kashroot, which were totally new to us at that time, we ate dairy. So we're preserving that tradition of saying, hey, we're gonna just like pause on the meat eating until we understand um our legal system a little bit better and have dairy. Um, so those are some of the answers. Plus, it's just like really fun.
SPEAKER_00I think it's so funny like the lengths that Jews will go to. So I can speak for like my community. We're like a very, you know, meat, we have like a very meat-heavy diet. Um, and so the rabbis have Diana, you can tell me if like this is a thing in in other Jewish communities, but the rabbis have actually granted us an exception where we can barbecue the first night of Shawuad, and everyone's like, oh thank God. Like we can we can break like the because I think it's seven days, right? Where you're traditionally not supposed to eat meat. Um and this is just Syrians can do this, or this like who else can do this?
SPEAKER_06This is amazing. That's what I was doing.
SPEAKER_04Is this like your kidny out situation? Esther's cul de sac and deal with GT.
SPEAKER_02There's an error around it. I I've never heard of this, but I never have claimed to be an expert on the Sephardic traditional community.
SPEAKER_00So, like, tell us how I don't I don't know if it's Sephardic or if if there was like a lobbying effort on part of the Syrian community to get some coaching lobbying on Travelboat. So now it's like, oh, but you can have barbecue the first. I don't I also don't know if it's specifically barbecue or if that became like just something that we do, which is like Diana said, we don't actually know why we do it, we just do it and then it becomes like law. Um, but yeah, we have so I'll be having barbecue uh the first night of Shabuad, and I think the second night is Shabbat, so you can have meat that night as well, which is fun.
SPEAKER_01Phew, you almost have to live two nights without meat.
SPEAKER_00I am a vegetarian, so I it's it's all good by me. Um, but a lot of the people that that I love and care about um are not.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, we'll have to look into the reasoning for that. Diana, I'll just say it the first time I celebrated Shavuot was my first summer at Camp Rama when I was, I think, nine years old. And usually Shavuot is like too early. It's post-Hebrew school, but too early for summer camp. But that year, maybe it was a leap year or something, so it happened late. The day after we arrived at camp, it's like my first time ever being away from home. And they're trying to figure out how do we do Shavuot for the entire camp? And they split us up into groups where you had people from all the different ages, and you had to do a Broadway show tunes performance where you wrote like a show about um a Torah portion or maybe you know, Jews receiving the Ten Commandments. I don't remember exactly, but um, I was very overwhelmed because I was the youngest one. I think I said nothing the entire day, but I did learn a lot about Shavuot.
SPEAKER_02Can I tell you something um pretty memorable that I used to do for Shavuot that was part of a lot of American Jews experience? So in the reform movement, Shavuot had been turned into confirmation, which is a confirmation is a custom from the Protestant church that was adapted by Reform Judaism. So if you go to my childhood synagogue, you will see a picture of me standing on the Bima in a full-length white robe carrying a pink rose. All the signs were there. I mean, that's what we all did. We had confirmation on Shavuot, and that's how the reform movement for many, many years sort of recognized um Shavuot. And I see our producer has chatted in the lines wasp core, which I take as a compliment.
SPEAKER_06Honestly, the confirmation thing. So I grew up conservative, I always was like, it's it's such a Christian word. Like, like on an Orthodox, we always joke about fellowshipping. Like, that's like if you talk about fellowshipping, you're not Jewish. Like that is like such a tell, it's a Gentile tell. Uh we need to know who they are. Um, but like confirmation, it did feel like very much grafted onto a Jew into a Jewish context. Proudly, it sounds like.
SPEAKER_02It was, and many synagogues still do it, and it's kind of getting away to like 16. Um, so you're like a little more of a grown up. It's like, you know, it's your bot mitzvah after your bat mitzvah kind of thing, in the sense that like it's a ceremony marking your development. Um, but what happened is it's you know, there are other ways to embrace Shavuot and you know, the receiving of the Torah, which in my mind is the most amazing gift, you know, anyone has ever received. So um I'm all for Shavuot, maybe like less positive on the confirmation aspect of it.
SPEAKER_06You know, it's so interesting. Last night um at the JCZ event that we were both at, that half of us were at, um, Dara Horn was the speaker, and she's you know amazing and brilliant. Um, and something she said, she's like, you know, we talk about Jews, and this was in the context of like this it being Shavuot and and this sort of being the season. She's like, Jews aren't the chosen people, we're the choosing people. And like using the story of Ruth, who was, I mean, Shavuot is a lot about like the first convert or the first Jew by choice. And she was making this argument that like we're all every single day choosing to be Jewish. And I actually found that quite inspiring. Um, this idea that like there are so many decisions you make every single day, and like what we do now in this moment is like actively choose in some way to be Jewish, to act Jewish, to act Jewishly, to live Jewishly. Um, and I found that quite, quite moving. But here's something I don't like. I don't like there's a lot of like, oi, our tummies hurt with dairy. And like, here's the thing, it's true. Like, it's true that there is like this lactose sensitivity in in our community. But I feel like there's a lot of like memeishness of like, oi, my tummy hurts.
SPEAKER_02It's it's overdone, I think. Yeah, that sort of thing. It's like, yeah, we know Jews have like Ashkenazi Jews have stomach issues. Like, this is not we don't need to like play it out too much more. We're good.
SPEAKER_04Well, there was like this this TikTok meme a couple years ago that was like hot girls have IBS, um, which is I guess the newer cooler version of Oi My Tummies. Um But you know, there is there is truth to it. And um at Lair House, which is this kosher restaurant and bar outside of Boston, they had they have a vending machine that has lactate pills. Um that's really funny. Which on the one hand, it's playing to type. On the other hand, people were definitely using that.
SPEAKER_06All right, shavu, more than just cheesecake. I'm on board. I want to circle us back to the Upper West Side, my favorite place in the world, but it's because something I can't stop thinking about is the Democratic primary that's coming up for my congressional district, which is New York's 12th. And this is not because I'm really into politics. I am totally not, but it's because it's like such a Jewish race that's going on in front of us right now. It's all started when Jerry Nadler announced he was stepping down from Congress after more than three decades. He's really one of the most important Jewish politicians in recent history. He chaired the Judiciary Committee and more importantly, walks around Capitol Hill with a Zabars bag. He sort of is very much a persona, and his departure is it's opening up a huge seat. And it's very much this moment of like, okay, the next generation, who's gonna be the next person to step into this seat? Again, super democratic area. This is like a guaranteed seat in Congress if you win this Democratic primary. So the primary is next month, the race is super tight, and there are two candidates who are standing out, at least to me, and both heather trying to appeal to Jewish voters, because obviously that's a big part of this district. It's much of, it's a lot of Manhattan, is the Upper East Side, Upper West Side, Chelsea, all these areas with a big Jewish population. Um, so they're really trying to appeal to Jewish voters, and they're also doing something interesting in like portraying their own Jewishness. Uh, and to be clear, like I'm not endorsing anyone. We are not endorsing anyone. That is not the business of what we're here to do. It's not what we want to do. But I do think there's something really interesting going on here, and that might be like a moment worth investigating and exploring uh just to see like what it means for the country. I did go to a meet and greet uh the other day for Jack Schlossberg, not a fundraiser, just a meet and greet. Um, he's sort of the self-identified Jew-ish grandson of JFK. And and I really was struck by how hard he was leaning into his own Jewish identity he was talking about, how he's really like a Schlossberg, and he sort of knew he was in a room of like Upper West Siders, and he had to sort of prove his Ychis, basically, his sort of his sort of Jewishness. On the other hand, there's state assemblyman Michael Lasher, who's more of like a tenured, uh longtime public servant. Uh, he's more of like a conventionally wonky Upper West Sider. Um, and I saw his mom canvassing for him on Broadway the other week, saying, like, please vote for my son, Michael Lasher. It was like the most amazing thing. It felt very Upper West Side. I'm actually gonna go to an event of his next week to sort of hear a little bit more about that. But I sort of just wanna bring this up and I want Gabby as our political expert. Um, you're the rabbi in this case. I want to sort of throw it to you to break down the significance of this race and what it means, not just for Manhattan's Jews, um, but but Jews across the country.
SPEAKER_04I will do some heavy lifting. Um, Jerry Nadler, as you said, is is this member of Congress representing the Upper West Side, but he's not just some random member of Congress. Um, he has been representing that district, I think, for decades. So he's this really iconic figure, not just in New York, but in in Jewish politics nationally. Um, but has been known to bring Delhi food from New York to events in Washington as well. He announced he's retiring. You know, he's someone who's been serving for a long time, is older. And the fact that he is stepping down and creating this kind of vacuum uh is is a huge deal. You know, it's one of these moments where you have this longtime politician and the question of who's going to replace them of a fresh generation, a different kind of politics. And in this case, in one of the most, I think maybe the most Jewish district in the entire country, yep, is that person going to be Jewish? I mean, Stephanie, you named two Jewish candidates, but there are people running who are not Jewish. There's a good chance that's the woman.
SPEAKER_06We allow one in the race as well.
SPEAKER_04There's a good chance that that one of them might win as well. And what does it mean to be Jewish and representing you're representing a district, but you're also in some ways representing the community and having those voices and figures for for us, the rest of the Jews in the country, to look to as being loudly and proudly Jewish in a place like the Capitol in Congress, um, showing up in in important rooms. I mean, Jack Schlossberg, you mentioned Stephanie. I I would put the emphasis on Jew-ish.
SPEAKER_06He says he's 100% half Jewish. That's how he refers to himself.
SPEAKER_04That's an incredible statement. I love that. But um, you know, I think for him, the the more operative part of the identity, at least from what I've seen, is the Kennedy and how is he trying to use the Kennedy name and brand and identity to bring a new generation into office? There was this big New York Times story on him last week, and how he's essentially never had a job, is kind of coming at the race with vibes, if you will, Kennedy vibes. And then, as you said, this other candidate, Michael Lasher, who is more sort of typically Jewish, if you will, but this is all happening against the backdrop of obviously rising anti-Semitism in the country and rising anti-Semitism in politics as well. And there was an article this week published in Axios, which talked about like the horrific anti-Semitic threats, phone calls, letters going to Jewish members of Congress. And you know, you have to wonder like, does this cause people who who are Jewish to not want to run for office? Like someone like Jerry Nadler, who's been loud and proud for decades on Capitol Hill, are we gonna see fewer of those when the people who do make it to Washington have to put up with a lot of really horrible stuff? That's a little broader than just the New York race, but that's that's the the context against which this is playing out.
SPEAKER_00I think what's interesting is not if we'll have more Jewish candidates actually running, but which parts of their Jewish identity they choose to amplify. And I think that's something that you've seen in this particular race, right? You have Jack Schlossberg, for example, saying, like Stephanie said, I'm a 100% half Jewish and approaching his Jewishness with like a more kitschy side, like talking about how he has his father's schnauz. I think a lot of that falls like along generational lines and different approaches to campaigning, to what it means to be a public figure, a politician. But I think what I'm sort of interested in is what parts of our candidate's Jewish identity will be not exposed, but celebrated or, you know, on the opposite side of that spectrum, hidden or um pushed off to the side.
SPEAKER_06So I was at this Jack Schlossberg event uh at a friend's house the other day, and he had a good line, which was that both of his grandfathers were presidents. Obviously, his grandfather, JFK, president of the United States on the Schlossberg side, his grandfather was president of Park East Synagogue on the Upper East side. But I do think, you know, and there were a lot of questions to Jack about like what it was a largely Jewish crowd of like, what are you gonna do about anti Semitism in this moment? And like, obviously, you're going to Congress. There's a lot of things that are, you know, on your on your agenda there. But I think for people who are the part of this district, which runs really like all over Manhattan, up and down Manhattan, for Jewish New Yorkers, that is a big concern. And it's like, how are you going to interact with the mayor? Like, what are the ways in which you are going to be informed as a Jew, but also as like someone representing, as you say, like this massive Jewish population? I think that is sort of the question that's sort of on the on people's minds right now. I'm like, I'm actually curious to hear sort of what these candidates are saying. There are obviously other candidates in the race as well. It's an interesting moment because it's at once a tiny story, right? Like this what do Jews in New York thing? But it really does have ripple effects, I would say, outside to the to the rest of the country.
SPEAKER_04Well, to Esther's point about not just are they Jewish, but but what parts of their identity are they emphasizing? How are they talking about it? I think in some ways it's it's easy to talk about Jewish culture. If you get elected to office and any part of your identity comes under threat, or it gets a little more complicated if you're talking about anti-Zionism, for example, and how they're gonna face that and face anti-Semitism and the way that it comes up when talking about Israel. That's when it gets more complicated and probably would be easier to avoid. But in my job, reporting on politics at Jewish Insider, we interview a lot of political candidates in this race and all over the country. And we're finding lately there are a lot of candidates, including Jewish ones, who just don't really want to talk about it, would rather rather stay quiet about, in some cases, their their Jewish identity, but for a lot of people, their views on Israel. And our philosophy is this is a huge political issue. We think it's really important that voters and constituents know where you stand. Um and so that that's something new that people, even Jewish candidates, are trying to avoid talking about some of that. And so I think for the ones who do and do so when it's hard and could be damaging politically, that that tells you a lot about someone.
SPEAKER_02First of all, I was told this was a non-political podcast. So, and yet here we are talking about a very heated race in the district that I care about a great deal. This is not my jam. I don't love politics. I think they're often corrosive to religion. I think that we're living in a time of hyperpolitics where politics feels like it's everything, and it is just not my love language, to put it mildly. Having said that, what I don't like and what I object to is when people trade on their Jewishness or their Jewish heritage, but don't stand for the Jewish people. And what we've seen is that the way people were Jewish in the past, it publicly is no longer working for the future. So if what it means to you to be Jewish, a proud Jew, is to eat deli meat in front of other people, I'm sorry, that is a fail. We're living in serious times. You need to come out. Like I refuse to give Schlossberg a free pass here, kindly look into his actual politics and what he has to say about Israel and what he doesn't say. Those are serious concerns. And you see it in other places, by the way, like beyond politics, where people are happy, for example, to be an amazing comedian, for example, which is like an inherited trait that's been worked on over years. You know, like you're talented because you're from this amazing culture of Judaism, but not come out for the Jewish people. So I don't appreciate it when people sort of virtue signal their Jewishness, but have nothing of substance to say to stand up for us when we really need it. So I just object to friendly Jewishness when there's really no substance behind it.
SPEAKER_06That's a great take. Yeah, this isn't a political podcast. I actually also hate talking about politics, but it does feel like so much of these conversations is just like what comes down to what it means to be a Jew today, right? And politics is unfortunately part of that in a way that I wish it wasn't. And I think a lot of us don't want it to be, but it kind of is now, right? We are asserting our Jewishness in how we vote, whatever that means to us. And like we are asserting our Jewishness in what restaurants we go to and what we're buying and what we're sort of listening to. And I think that it sucks, but that's sort of like the world right now.
SPEAKER_00So obviously, I wrote a really Jewish novel, right? Like this book could not have not been more Jewish, was centered in an insular Orthodox Jewish community. Um, I think Israel was mentioned twice in the whole book, uh, in the context of a young girl in the community who, you know, messed up and took a sabbatical in Israel to sort of uh, you know, get away for a while until her name cleared in the community. Israel did not feature prominently in the book. And yet I found myself getting questions like in podcast interviews and in and talks about the obviously the book came out post-October 7th. I was a little taken off guard. I think when like Jewish figures, I'll say, or public figures are asked questions specifically about Israel, it almost, you know, it comes off in like a like an accusatory tone, right? Um and I think that immediately puts you on the defense, regardless of if you are the most pro-Zionist person or you are an anti-Zionist Jewish figure. And I think that's part of the problem, right? It's not that you don't want to take a stand or you don't want to amplify certain parts of your Jewish identity. It's that it's sort of the whole process of the back and forth conversation just became so ugly, so offensive and defensive that it makes you want to take a back seat, which I know is not the correct answer, particularly in this moment. And Diane, I totally agree with your take. And it's important that our that we vote in politicians who um who we agree with and who have backbone, who could stand up for our communities and our values. But I think the ecosystem has just become so perverted and the discourse has become so perverted that it's becoming harder and harder to to even choose your words carefully.
SPEAKER_04Look, I can't imagine putting myself in that position. And when I think about having to go do a town hall or stand in front of a bunch of potential voters and answer hostile questions, I feel horrified. Like I would never want to do that. But for the people who choose to do that, um, you know, we want our leaders to be leaders and actually to take a stand and say the hard things. And I think even beyond politics, so many of us have been in that position and had to realize that after October 7th. I mean, it's much easier if you don't care about anything and don't have to say anything about Israel or being Jewish or otherwise. But I think you don't really have a choice if we're choosing to be, well, there's the word choosing, but if if we're wanting to live proudly as Jews, it's not necessarily easy right now, but um, I think it's the choice with integrity. And we'll we'll see if uh the Jewish politicians do so as well.
SPEAKER_06No, I love this idea. It's choosing, it's voting, it's opting, it's electing. Like I actually think this is, you're right, this is all connected. This entire conversation is is sort of threaded, and I don't want to make this less serious, but I did just have a brilliant idea, which is the Golden Girls Shahuot cheesecake eating competition for everyone running for the New York 12 congressional seat. Um we'll have lactate available, but like I want to see faces in cheesecake. Show me that you're here for the Jewish community. Diana Dier said, did I do that right? Is that what you were saying? That's what you meant. So, okay, so we'll see you. I guess we'll see you guys for the cheesecake eating competition. Um reach out, get get in touch. Hi at goldaguide.com. All right, so what with that, um, happy shavuot, everyone. Happy Shavuas, happy shavuat, happy, happy cheesecake, happy everything. All right, let's take a break for a word from one of our sponsors, and then I'll be back with Julie Klausner, who's gonna answer a listener question.
Ask GOLDA with Julie Klausner
SPEAKER_06GoldaGang, I'm excited to tell you about the Mindage Fellowship for Jewish Fiction. For all the writers out there, if your novel or fiction project centers Jewish life, culture, or themes, the Mindage Fellowship for Jewish Fiction is an incredible opportunity to develop that work in community in Miami. Miami Book Fair is offering the Mindage Fellowship for Jewish Fiction as part of their Emerging Writer Fellowship. Fellows are offered a generous stipend, mentorship, and a year-long period of uninterrupted writing time, along with a literary community to assist fellows in completing their book-length manuscripts. Again, this is all in Miami. It supports a work of fiction in which Jewish life or culture plays a meaningful or central role in the narrative and character development. Jewish themes can be cultural, religious, or historical, and should shape the plot, setting, identity, or interpersonal dynamics. The work is judged on its own merit, not on the writer's personal, religious affiliation, or cultural background. This opportunity is amazing and the application is free, but the deadline is coming up on May 31st. Head to MiamiBookFair.org slash program slash emerging dash fellows to apply. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Julie Klausner, welcome to Golda Girls. Oh, I I can't believe you can't believe saying this. Thank you. I feel like you really are like a Golda godmother if I think about it. You're like this funny, smart Jewish woman. You're hilarious, brilliant, but like everything you do feels very Jewish without even being very Jewish necessarily.
SPEAKER_05This is the ultimate compliment from you, Steph. The brand is strong. It is a beacon, it is a lighthouse. You attract people that you are like. And and I just thank you again so much for having me. I'm I'm delighted to be in the Golda community.
SPEAKER_06I'm wondering, you know, what is who is in like the pantheon for you of like funny, ballsy Jewish ladies, like you're a comedian, you're a writer, you do all of this creative stuff. Who are you looking up to when you do it? Joan Rivers.
SPEAKER_05Always. Always Joan. I was lucky enough to write for Joan and to get to know Joan. I loved her instantly. I was always a fan of hers. I wrote for her on a couple different projects. And whenever she would do like a reality show, she would like to have a comedy writer on set to kind of like, you know, toss her lines if she needed. So I remember the first day I ever showed up to work with her, you know, obviously you're really anxious, you're gonna be in the presence of a legend. The second I met her, I just felt like she was an aunt or a cousin. I just felt instantly comfortable with her. And that's all on her. Like she really made people feel like she had that kind of like homey, warm quality and like a deep kindness and just no bullshit. The last time I saw her, I went to see her at Lori Beachman, and I went, there's not much of a backstage, but I went back after the show with my folks. She had just done a role on Louis when Louie was on the air, and she played herself, and she had this really great scene with him. And I said, Joan, you were great on that show. And she goes to me, is he funny? Like just genuinely asking, like from like comic to comic. It was such a it was such a privilege to be treated like a peer. And and then my mother complimented her on her watch and she took it off and gave it to her. No, it was seriously? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's amazing. That's amazing. But but it was also just the essence of her generosity. It's just who she, it's who she was. And then also, like when you picture a joke on set, even if she didn't use it, she'd always make sure to like look at you and just say, That's very funny.
SPEAKER_06I do feel like we are missing her in this moment, like that distinct brand of like tell it like it is, and also like her Jewishness, which she never shied away from. I feel like we could use that voice to just like talk sense into all of us a little bit.
SPEAKER_05No question. She was fearless, she was a really remarkable lady and like a very, very proud Jewish, Jewish gal, too.
SPEAKER_06And like tough. I feel like we're kind of missing that right now. Like, dare I say, I think you're doing a lot of it. Um, because I pulled up your your podcast, How Was Your Week in New episode came out this morning and it was literally titled like the most Jewish Madonna songs. And I feel like it's not at all out of place. You have a pop culture podcast, but yet something like that is not out of place. You transcend that. And so you bring this like Jewishness to all of your writing on pop culture, the show Difficult People, which was like I would say the best show in recent history.
SPEAKER_03Thank you.
SPEAKER_06And I'm wondering like how conscious you are. Is it even possible for you not to do that, or do you think about doing it?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I both. I mean, I don't think it is possible. I was Jewish before I was anything else. I I don't I can't think of a world in which that identity doesn't permeate every element of my life. I I grew up with both Jewishness and Judaism because I went to a conservative yeshiva, and I was um raised conservative, and I was also in tandem exposed to so much culture. My folks are both from the city. My my dad is from the Bronx, my mom is from Brooklyn, and they they took me to theater and museums and would always point out from film and television, like who's Jewish and why that matters. And I was really, really exposed to it on all ends. And it was just sort of something I was never not aware of. And it very much it gets to the heart of what I do and what I create and what I have to say as a writer and an artist. I mean, there's always going to be that outsider quality that we have as people that are not in the mainstream that that does make us keener observers. I hopefully use it to kind of straddle the world of like, hopefully not navel gazing or narcissism, but just to kind of consciously and constantly keep myself in check while I am looking at the world around me and constantly reminding me that there are, you know, billions of people that are not thinking in the same way that I do. And also at the same time, there are people that are really, really going to appreciate what I have to say because it it resonates. And to be able to touch on the marginalized experience and make it universal, and often that is with humor. I feel like if you're funny, you immediately get to your destination and you are a hell of a lot more likable and a lot easier to listen to. And I think that it is a time and tested survival mechanism that our people have used both internally and externally to communicate with the world.
SPEAKER_06You know, I think outsider really is a great word, especially to describe difficult people, which is the show that you created and started in. It was on Hulu 2015 to 2017. Too short, too short-lived. I think we all can agree.
SPEAKER_05But yeah, and yet three seasons ain't bad for like the. Yes, you're right. And I'm so grateful. But yes, I would have loved to have kept doing it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06It was you and Billy Eichner just sort of being like the ultimate outsiders, just trying to make it absolutely Cole Escola, which was the first time a lot of us were ever introduced to Cole, who is now, of course, so well known for O'Mary. And there was like a lot of like pre-Me Too era riffs about problematic people. Like there was a Kevin Spacey joke, every episode. Like you really, there was those things, like things that you were doing on that show that no one else was able to do. And I wonder if it's because you just felt like you could do anything.
SPEAKER_05I felt like it was my blank check. I felt like it was my opportunity to say what I needed to say, and that maybe I would never get another chance to have that kind of platform. So you really do go into it like you bring your own plate to the buffet and are just like, oh, I'm gonna need all these roles for later. I I that's how I really treated that show. Every season finale I treated like a potential series finale. I, you know, did a Christmas episode the first season just to like get that one in the books. Just because you never know in this world like what when you're ever gonna get the opportunity. And I also felt and still do that if you're funny, because people would always ask me at the time when the show was on, like, how do you get people to watch unlikable characters? And I'm like, anyone is likable if they're funny. So I I do feel like, yes, in some way I was emboldened, whether it was by like youth, the one time only kind of maybe this is the last time I'll ever get to ride this merry-go-round.
SPEAKER_06By the way, I do feel like not to make everything Jewish, that idea of like we don't know the next time we're gonna do this is like describes everything. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05Oh, absolutely. Use the good China. Yes, you know, don't don't eat dessert first, all of the things, all of the things. Don't wait to tell somebody you you love them, or and that is also something no one ever needs to remind a Jewish person about the fragility of life or to be careful. We do, we say each other, we say to each other, be careful the way we say I love you. But it's something that is so ingrained in our survival, anxiety, diarrhea.
SPEAKER_06Like there's so many things that we have. I do feel like there's something so unique about this, all of what you're saying, but it's so universal in a way. Like you don't have to chewish, you don't have to live in New York to watch difficult people. It's like it's so it transcends the specificity, is what actually makes it so universal, right?
SPEAKER_05And that's the goal. And and I I felt that way when I saw A Strange Loop, which I thought was like absolutely completely brilliant, one of the most brilliant original shows on Broadway in the last decade. Look, difficult people is by no means fiddler on the roof. But when I saw the fiddler doc, they mention every time they do that production around the world, people from culture, all cultures. Like, how did you know that this is how we live our lives in this particular part of the world? It's like there's absolutely things that when you share them, you can connect with people. But at the same time, there are these specificities that are either like talismans, iconography, or things that are specific to us, but there's always a reason. There's always a reason behind it, right? Like there's always some rabbi there to point out that the purpose of Kashroot is so we didn't get food poisoning in the desert, right?
SPEAKER_06I love that. Um, I guess I'm wondering your Instagram bio says writer, performer, podcaster, I created difficult people, host how is your week? Then you have Jew. Even before like Cat's Dogs Musical Celebrity Nick's, like you have Jew right up there. And I'm and I guess I'm wondering, like, was that always there? Did you add it? But like, how have the last few years been on that front for you?
SPEAKER_05Not great, Stephanie, not great. But I'll tell you, I've never felt more who I am. It's been incredibly challenging to be not just a Jew on the internet, but a public Jew in public life. And while there are things that I don't agree with coming from my community, coming in support of my community, coming obviously against my community, I will always be who I am. And I feel that very, very strongly. And and I also believe that part of Jewishness, I don't know, it may also be Judaism, because they're not necessarily the same thing if you're talking about the religion or the culture. I think I love that distinction. I feel like that's very important to say. Yeah, I have been thinking a lot about that in the last few years as well. I I do feel like the diaspora is like part of the experience. It's it's like in move on and something in the park with George when she sings. Stop worrying where you're going, move on. If you can know where you're going, you've gone. Right. So I do feel as though this search for meaning within one's tribe and then also around one's tribe is an essential part of identity. I've also spent the last few years looking internally, both like in our community and inside of my soul, to remember who I am. And that means like my moral grounding and my sense of loyalty, but not blind loyalty, to my community. And where do we put that? And where do we prioritize it? And where do we feel our places and where do we feel our ability to do something about it? And I I I put that in my bio as as solidarity to any kind of fellow Jewish person, but for any other Jewish person who is going through the burden of uh just not really being sure about how they feel about being Jewish. I I do want them to see one person that is is proud of it. And I and I hope that I hope that makes people feel less alone.
SPEAKER_06I think that's actually a great segue into our Ask Golda segment. This is where listeners get to write in and ask us a question. And I'm really happy to have you here for this one. This one comes from Lexi in Miami. Love her already. She said she writes, Dear Golda, I am really upset. The front man of my favorite band just went on a very public anti-Semitic tirade. I am used to separating the art from the artist, especially since October 7th, but this was really bad. She uses the squiggles to denote really bad. I don't really squiggles, Lexi. Not the squiggles. I don't really want to support him with streams, ticket sales, etc. But this music is also really important to me. What do I do? It feels like if I want to keep the entertainment that I love, I have to get off social media and live under a rock. I feel This way a lot, Lexi. And I'm actually glad to have Julie Klausner here to give us a little bit of like how do you feel about this? How do you deal with this yourself as a both a performer but also as a consumer, a lover of pop culture?
SPEAKER_05It's so funny because first of all, I I totally hear what you're saying, Lexi. And and by the way, going off of social media and living under a rock are two different things. I just want you to remember that. And that there's no you know we don't need to, yeah, we don't need to like think of these as black or white, right? We can do things incrementally, we can do things in moderation, right? We can we can definitely put little things on our phone that that time the amount of time that I have it. I override it all the time, but I have a little thing on my phone that says, you've been on these apps for are you sure you want to open this app? And I say, Yes, I'm sure. How dare you ask me if I'm sure? I'm a grown woman and then I'm miserable. But I will say we could do things in we can consume moderation. When it comes to separating the art from the artist, so there are things in the past, there are things in the present. The funny thing about Woody Allen, the total transition here, is that the news of things he may or may not have done, we weren't there, right? But based on other things he's done, you know, maybe it's it's completely, it's completely possible, right? That all kind of emerged at the same time as movies started sucking shit. So with all due respect to Wonder Wheel, I have to say the idea that's like, well, I'm not gonna go see another Woody Allen movie means something different now than it would have during like his peak, right? So that said, is there still something to be gained to going back and watching Purple Rose of Cairo or Had and Her Sisters or Crimes and Misveneers? Sure. Are you viewing it with a different lens? I'd say so. You're noticing things that you weren't already, right? Now we are living through this particular moment, right? So this is current, this is something we're all living through. My advice as it is for everything is take a break, right? Just like take a break, take a step back, maybe like hold off on consuming stuff that you know makes you feel lousy right now because of your associations, and maybe you'll feel differently in the future and you'll be able to enjoy his music again. I don't know, but artists are not role models. So yeah, I would just say like it seems like for now, for the sake of you maintaining your safe space and kind of sanity to take a take a break. That's my advice.
SPEAKER_06I also don't like this idea that we don't get to have what we like anymore. Like, oh, this artist says this thing, this I want to have music that I like. I don't think that like we should be depriving ourselves. I think you can still play music that you like. This in this particular example, I understand that. Like, cool off, take a break. If someone whose music you like has signed into this or that, like I actually don't really care. I want good music. And so I feel like we should also be kind to ourselves and not be like, well, oh, wait, I don't like this person's take on this issue, and I don't like like I that deprives us in a way that feels absolutely.
SPEAKER_05You don't have to endorse like a punishment, you don't need to carry the burden of the sins of every artist that whose work you enjoy. It's a really weird time. Like we have this information economy, and there's a lot of stuff in it that is served to us by people who don't have the best intentions, they're really just trying to make money off of your attention. So outrage gets clicks, and we're all vulnerable to it. So it does come down to the like, what can I control? What can I control? And also when it comes to your like treats, take a break from things that are making you miserable, and hopefully you'll be able to return to them at a time when you have a different point of view, or use this time to find some other sweet treats that you know you wouldn't have ordinarily looked for because I think we've all got to like clean out our playlist every once in a while and just say, like, Jellyfish only put out two albums, and you've been listening to them for 30 years now.
SPEAKER_06I think that's an amazing, amazing response, an amazing way to look at it. I'm just happy, I'm happy to have you here. Like, I want delighted to be here.
SPEAKER_05I'd like to be here all the time. This is such an honor. I am thrilled to be part of the Mushbucha and uh thank you again for having me. And I would love to come back anytime.
SPEAKER_06Amazing. Thank you so much, Dianu. I feel like everyone should be following you on Instagram at Julie Klausner. Yes.
SPEAKER_05And I have things happening that you can learn about through Instagram. I don't I don't really have a website. So yeah, if you're on Instagram, first of all. My condolences. No, I pretty much put everything out there, but I do have the difficult Blu-ray, which is coming out June 16th. So you can pre-order that right now or get it at the retailer of your choice. Um, and hopefully I'll be doing a couple of events, like at least in the city here in New York, where I'll be signing some. So that'll be fun to come and say hi. Um, and um, and just sort of watch out for any other kind of shows and things that I'm doing over at it's just it's just my name, all one word on Instagram.
Good for the Jews
SPEAKER_06Coming up, we'll get into what's good for the Jews. But first, I want to tell you about two Golda events happening next week. Golda Mahjong Night is back on Tuesday, May 26th. We've been popping up around New York City, and this one is on the Upper East Side. It's a night for Mahjong Mavens, newcomers, and everyone in between. Gold Coast Mahjong Club will be on hand to teach the beginners, and everyone else will be paired up for open play. These are a lot of fun, and there are a few spots left. And then on Wednesday, May 27th, we're kicking off our brand new event series at the Harmony Club in New York City. I'm so excited about this. Um, and for the first night, I'll be in conversation with three of my favorite contemporary Jewish authors: Rachel Cadish, author of the novel The Weight of Ink, Menachem Kaiser, author of Plunder, and Esther Shahebar, my Golden Girls co-host and author of the novel Sisters of Fortune. After the book talk, there'll be a delicious reception and a fun book signing. You can find links to both of those events in the show notes for today's episode or on our website at Goldeguide.com/slash P slash events. I hope to see you there. All right, it's time for Good for the Jews, the sweet note that ends every episode. Good for the Jews is brought to you by Joiva, the incredibly sweet family business that's been crafting tahini, halva, and delicious confections for four generations. Gabby, kick things off for us.
SPEAKER_04I'll share something that is very much not topical whatsoever, uh, and in fact is is a little outdated, so hopefully this will still land for the listeners of Golda Girls. What I think is good for the Jews this week is the incredible camp musical, Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat. And I'll share, I'll share why I'm mentioning that. Uh has have have all three of you seen this musical or the 1999 direct-to-dvd movie with Donnie Osmond. Oh, of course.
SPEAKER_02Excuse me, my sister starred in a dinner theater production, so I've seen it dozens of times.
SPEAKER_04Okay, fantastic, fantastic. The reason that I mentioned this is last weekend my family did a middle of the night road trip. My sister graduated from Tulane last Friday night at 5 p.m. As soon as it finished at 7:30, we got in the car to drive five and a half hours west to Houston, Texas, where the next morning at 8 a.m. my brother graduated from law school. The only one went there was a road trip. And my dad was did all of the driving, was just shouting out songs or genres, and my brother-in-law played DJ. And at one point, we get to Joseph in the amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. And the music is just incredible. It's so good. It's so Jewish. It's so weird and campy and like 60s. And when I was a kid and my parents had one of those mini-bands with the DVD player, that was the DVD that lived in the car. And I think that we need a Broadway revival. If not, go find it at your community theater somewhere. Joseph and the Amazing Tacticolor Dreamcoat with music by the iconic Andrew Lloyd Weber. Good for the Jews.
SPEAKER_00I love that. First of all, Gabby, your parents must be so proud. Congratulations to your sister and brother. Thank you. Okay. I'll try and tap that. So I actually have two Good for the Jews this week. My first one, briefly, Good for the Jews, is the Costco kosher certified cheesecake. Oh it's it's so good. It's like it's been a hack of my mom's, like for every Chevrolet, basically, for as long as I can remember. And what she does is she buys the cheesecake, which is like a plain, you know, standard cheesecake. And then separately, she buys a Heath bar and like caramel syrup, and she jazzes the cake up herself. She crutches the heath bar on top, she drizzles the caramel, and it looks so good. Um, it looks so beautiful, and it is it kicks ass. It's delicious. Um, my second good for the Jews wait, that sounds incredible.
SPEAKER_06Can we just take a moment? Oh, you want to take a beat? Okay. Yes, I want to celebrate that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Go, Sylvia. I'll be so I'll be eating that. Um, this shabuab. Second Good for the Jews is so for whoever is not in the subway takes loop, Julian Casablanca's lead singer of The Strokes, had recently made some pretty nasty comments about American Jewish Zionists. The lead guitarist, arguably the best part of The Strokes, Nick Valencia, is actually a Sephardic too on his dad's side. And he's previously spoken publicly about his appreciation for Sephardic culture. And it was revealed that Valencia and Casablancas had not been on speaking terms since November. And a few days ago, it came out that Valencia actually dropped out of the strokes of summer tour, which is which is a big deal. Like, good luck doing reptilia without him. I don't know what to tell you. But um speaking of Jews having a backbone, it was not actually confirmed that Casablanca's views on the Israeli-Palestine conflict is the reason for Valencia's departure, but we can all do some educated guesswork here. And I love that the Strokes, who were previously one of my favorite pens, um, are now gonna have to struggle through their tour without Valencia. So Nick Valencia, good for the Jews.
SPEAKER_02Top that's I was gonna say I I can't top that. I'm just processing. There's a lot of process there. Um okay, so my Good for the Jews is about another ritual that's happening this week besides Shavuot, which many, many Jewish moms in particular participate in every single year, which is packing for Jewish summer camp. Okay, very important. It's quite laborious. I dread it every single year because it's just a straight up administrative and financial pain. However, there is one product, and I'm getting no money for this, that is making my life easier, and that is a company called Mabel's Labels. You will send me labels of various shapes and sizes quickly. You will make them in pretty colors, in different fonts, even with a fun little graphic next to it. Their labels are um suntan resistant. You can put them on tennis rackets, you can put them on water bottles, you can put them on tags of clothing, you can wash them in those horrible camp washing machines where everything gets ruined, but no, the labels remain intact. Now all I have to do is peel and stick. Thank you, Mabel's labels, for making my life a little easier.
SPEAKER_00It was literally the best non-endorsement I've ever heard in my life. But Diane. I really do. I my kids don't go, I Mabel label everything. And I have to say that I've had Mabel labels on my kids' water bottles for years. Yeah, they do not come off. I don't know what I don't know what it's made of, but magic. Magic. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Agreed. We love that for them. We'll see their Mabel label, Mabel's labels this year at uh summer camp near you. Wow. Um, so my Good for the Jews is related to last night when Diane and I were walking out of the JCC in Manhattan. There was a little giveaway station, and what they were giving away was a brand new candle from Literary Candles, and it's they make really cute candles that smell great. And this was a collab between the JCC and Zabars. The candle is called Fresh Hala on Friday. Uh the flavor is honey and sesame. That's like the scent. And I have to say, here's a picture of me holding the candle, smelling it. It smells amazing. Um, love is Zabar's JCC candle. I loved it. It smells great, and I'm so excited about it. Zaybars got a lot of love this episode of Golden. This episode?
SPEAKER_02It did.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And and deserved.
SPEAKER_06There's a lot this week that is good for the Jews. I'm feeling really, really good taking this into the weekend, taking this into Memorial Day weekend, a thing we did not even discuss. Um Memorial Day Shavuo weekend, a four-day weekend. Golda Girls is a production of Golda Media. The show is hosted by me, Stephanie Butnik with Gabby Deutsch, Diana Fersco, and Esther Shahebar. Ariel Shapiro is our executive producer, and we're edited by the team at Poldu. Get more Golda and subscribe to our newsletter at Goldaguide.com. Follow us on Instagram at GoldaGuide. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and we'll send you a Golda sticker to send a screenshot of your review to High at Goldeguide.com. Happy Shahu Oak and Stay Golda. That's a Golda podcast.
