GOLDA Girls

Stars, Stripes, and Sha-BBQ with Jake Cohen

• GOLDA Media • Episode 9

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0:00 | 49:14

GOLDA founder Stephanie Butnick, journalist Gabby Deutch, novelist Esther Chehebar, and Rabbi Diana Fersko are joined by cookbook author Jake Cohen to talk all things 4th of July, from being Jewish in America as the country turns 250 to kosher-friendly BBQ prep. 

Send us your Ask GOLDA questions at hi@goldaguide.com (voice notes are best; be sure to tell us who you are and where you’re calling from).


This week’s Good for the Jews picks: 

Stephanie: America! 

Gabby: Jews representing at Pride 🌈

Diana: The Golem of Prague—which comes in many souvenir versions (and even a gold pendant).

Esther: Mel Brooks turning 100.


Subscribe to GOLDA at goldaguide.com and follow us on Instagram at @goldaguide.


Where you can find the GOLDA Girls:

Follow Gabby’s writing at Jewish Insider here, and subscribe to her Substack here. 

Sign up for Diana’s print newsletter, Modern Jewess, here, and buy her book, We Need to Talk About Antisemitism, here. 

Get Esther’s novel Sisters of Fortune here, and her children’s book I Share My Name, here. 

Buy Stephanie’s book, The Newish Jewish Encyclopedia, here.


GOLDA Girls is a production of GOLDA Media. The show is executive produced by Ariel Shapiro and edited by POLDHU. 


Sponsors:

GOLDA Girls is presented by Nu Reads, a new Jewish book subscription series curated by the Jewish Book Council that brings remarkable literature straight to your door. Use code NuGolda at checkout for 15% off your subscription. Visit NuReads.org to get started today.


You can listen to GOLDA Girls on:


Leave us a review and we’ll send you a GOLDA sticker! Email a screenshot of your review to hi@goldaguide.com. 


Stay GOLDA. 


Nu Reads

SPEAKER_04

Before we get to today's show, I want to tell you about our presenting sponsor. New Reads is a Jewish book subscription series that brings remarkable literature straight to your door. A new box just arrived with the latest pick, Homebound by Portia Elon. I'll be talking to Portia about the book soon. Stay tuned for that special episode in your feed. With New Reads, you're not just getting books. You get access to exclusive experiences with authors and a community built on a shared passion for Jewish storytelling. New Reads is offering Golda Girls listeners 15% off of their subscription. Just use the code NUGOLDA at checkout. Visit Newreads.org. That's n-u-re-a-d-s.org to get started today.

Intro

SPEAKER_04

Welcome to Golda Girls, the podcast for Jewish women with a lot to say and the many people who love us. I am Stephanie Butnick, the founder of the Jewish lifestyle newsletter Golda, and I'm joined by my three amazing co-hosts, novelist Esther Shahabar, back with us. So happy to be back. I missed all of you so much. We missed you last week, Rabbi Diana Fersko. Reunited, and it feels so good. And journalist Gabby Deutsch.

SPEAKER_03

Thank God we're all together again.

SPEAKER_04

Later in this episode, we'll be joined by Jewish food icon Jay Cohen to talk all things Jewish food, July 4th, all the stuff. But first, let's let's catch up a little bit. Esther, where were you last week?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, how dare you? I took a leave of absence. I was in Evanston, Illinois, right outside of Chicago for the AJL book conference. So the AJL's Association of Jewish Libraries. It was great. I brought all three of my kids along. They were in between camp and school and sat on a bunch of panels, listened to a bunch of different authors. There was an award ceremony. I won an honor for the Jewish Fiction Award. I got to meet one of my favorite writers who we have to have on, Jason Diamond, the author of Kaplan's Plot. Oh, he's amazing. Really funny. And it was great. And then I got to see Chicago for the first time, which I cannot believe it was my first time in Chicago. But I enjoyed it. It was like a cleaner version of New York City. Is that fair to say?

SPEAKER_03

Well, I think Chicago is amazing. And if the winter weren't so bad, like everyone would live there. I've only been in the summer.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I was like, we were right on Lake Michigan. And so my kids were jumping in there and the weather was amazing. Really good food. And I did not have a Chicago hot dog, but I've heard they're great.

SPEAKER_01

Chicago also has a great Jewish community, not just in the city, but like the suburbs of Chicago. Right, like Skokie. They run deep. Right. That's like where it's at. I spent a lot of time there, both in undergrad and then later when I did my book, speaking there at different congregations. And it's so impressive the way they're committed to their synagogue, the way they're organized as a community. I just love it.

SPEAKER_03

One Jewish book point, which I know last week I also talked about Esther's book, but I'm gonna do it again now that Esther is back with us. And also I finished Esther's book, Sisters of Fortune. I'll say the name again because it was fabulous. There's a link to buy it in the show notes every week. I texted this to Esther the other day. So I got the book on my Kindle, and actually, my mom and my sister and I share a Kindle account. It's very cute. So we read all the same books. That is so cute. We have a mother-daughter book club, which is a whole thing that we will get into in some future episode of this show. But I put the book on our Kindle and my mom starts reading it, and I guess she finished it before me. And she calls me at the end of it and I answer the phone and she's crying. I'm like, are you okay? And she was crying at the end of the book because she was so moved by it. And I hadn't finished it yet. So I had to say, no spoilers, please don't tell me. But I just finished it over the weekend and I thought it was so sweet. So I will tell all of our listeners again to go read Esther's book. And now she has an extra award to prove that it is delightful.

SPEAKER_00

And that is so apropos that you have a mother-daughter book club. And you this my book is about essentially a mother and her three daughters. So I love that. And that's so special. And I'm sorry I made your mom cry. I think I've made a lot of people cry, but hopefully she laughed too.

SPEAKER_03

She also laughed. And in my family, we all cry at everything. So it's not a rare occasion.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like I could have pegged that. Like I would have guessed. I know.

SPEAKER_04

I'm pretty sure your dad cried on this podcast a little bit. Oh, yeah. No, everyone. We all do. Sweet. I think we are part of such a special community. There's an association of Jewish libraries. Like there's a Jewish book council. There's so much that exists. There's so much infrastructure. First of all, we love organizing. There's just so much there. I feel like there, especially for when it comes to Jewish writers. And I feel like this is a pretty fraught moment in terms of publishing anti-Semitism. We've all heard about that. And like I heard someone say the truth is actually so much worse than what you see. But like there are so many systems that exist to help amplify and uplift Jewish writers and voices and help them get published. And I just, it makes me so happy that you like got an award from the Association of Jewish Libraries. It's just so wonderful.

SPEAKER_00

I don't think there's been a talk that I've sat in or been a part of that I haven't gotten the question, what's it like to be a Jewish writer today? It's so horrible. There's so much anti-Semitism, it's terrible. And it is, but my answer to that is always it's not even that I'm choosing to focus on the positive. I literally have no choice because there because there is so much positivity and support, and the Jewish community has just rallied behind its artists and its creators, and there are so many fellowships and different programs to like really bolster Jewish voices and support us. And so that's what I'm choosing to focus on. And this week was like another beautiful example of that.

SPEAKER_01

I just want to say, Esther, what you're saying means a lot because I think that one of the real pain points post-October 7th has been the feeling amongst the Jewish community that we are no longer recognized, celebrated, wanted by the secular world. And there's this feeling of rejection. And it's very real, but it also calls into question of like, why do we want that so much? And why do we need that so much? And what you're saying is you've embraced being celebrated by your own community. And that is awesome and worthy and important and maybe matters even more than being celebrated in every secular media outlet that also prints garbage.

SPEAKER_00

It's that question of like who are you writing for, right? Who are you creating for? Are you writing for your friends and your family and your own community, or are you writing to be discovered and known by other people? And I think it's a complicated question, especially now. But listen, obviously, in a perfect world, Jewish writers would be read by everybody, right? And it'd be it books would be a place that others would come to in order to learn about Jewish, different Jewish communities. I think we need that more than ever. But I think in this time, if we are going to be siloed and pushed out subtly or unsubtly, then I think the answer to that is not to go into a corner and cry. It's to like rally around one another and support each other. On that, I do hope that the tide turns just because I do think anti-Semitism goes down when Jews are more known. And I have to attribute that to a writer friend of mine, Claudia Adjme. She always says that. And I just think there's so much truth to it.

America 250

SPEAKER_04

Speaking of interesting times, it's July 4th weekend. It's America's 250th birthday. It's red, white, and blue all the time. It's hot dogs on the grill, Hebrew National, of course. They answer to a higher authority, and so do we as podcasters. So, Gabby, you're in DC. You're the senior national correspondent, a Jewish insider. Help us ring in July 4th in this particular moment.

SPEAKER_03

Well, first of all, I want to note for the sake of our listeners that I'm in a white shirt, Stephanie's in a red shirt, Esther's in a blue shirt. It wasn't.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, we both, yeah, there's Diana Strike. I'm patriotic.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it was not, it was not planned though, but we are representing well. I just wrote this article in Jewish Insider that we published ahead of July 4th about this 250th anniversary of America. And I talked to a bunch of Jews, rabbis, leaders of organizations, writers, thinkers, educators, all kinds of people about how they're thinking about this anniversary, if it's something that's meaningful to them broadly as Americans, but also as Jews. And this is a moment where, as we all know, we've talked about it's a challenging time to be a Jew in the world and also in America. And so when that's the backdrop, how do you go into this big celebration, which is something that has also been politicized? And there's a lot of dynamics about what this all means and how we celebrate it here in Washington, where I live, there is a big, well, there's always a big event on the national mall and huge fireworks. This year it's also essentially a Trump rally with a lot of other stuff going on. And so I think the question for a lot of people is like, how do you celebrate and also what does it mean? And I will not be in Washington this weekend. I am going on vacation to the mountains to hopefully be away from the 104-degree heat. That's a whole other thing that I don't think will mix well with all of the July 4th celebrations. Oh my God, pray for our hair. I know, pray for our hair. That's true. Pray for hair, pray for people to be hydrated. So I'll throw it out to the Golden Girls. Are you in on America 250? Are you excited? What does that look like for you guys? Is July 4th something that's a big deal for you? And I'll also just add this year, July 4th is on Shabbat, which creates some opportunities for reflection and Shabbat-themed celebrations.

SPEAKER_04

It's such a good question. Because American politics have gone in that particular direction. I think a lot of people are down on America who are American. And I think that we need to stop doing that because I just feel like this Jews, especially, there's so much connection of the Jewish experience in this country. There's been unique opportunity for Jews in America and the idea that America was created as a place for religious liberty. And I think that we need to remember that even if we don't like the president, say, or the things that this that are being done in the name of this country, I don't want to give up on the idea of America. And I do feel like there's a sort of trendy wave of hating on America the idea. And I don't think that's good for us. I don't think that's good for the Jews, GFTJ. I want to celebrate. And I want to celebrate this kind of amazing experiment that that that is America.

SPEAKER_00

Steph, I could not agree more. First of all, Gabby, my best friend, is doing a ShibabQ. Shabba barbecue with their family. And they're going all out. They're all each dressing up. She, I think she's dressing up as Alexander Hamilton. They're all dressing up as some historical figure. But, anyways, I will be taking this opportunity to teach my children. I love a teachable moment. And I want my kids to know. This July 4th, it's more about the fireworks and the patriotic clothes and all of that's fun and it's great. But they should know what America means. America is more than the government that presides over it, right? It's more than a flag, it's an idea, it's a concept, and it's the reason that a lot of our ancestors are alive, frankly. And my kids are little, but they're not too little to know that, to understand it on some level. So I will be using the 250 anniversary to have fun and will make it fun. But I will be using it as a moment to teach them about where they come from, where we come from. And fun fact that a lot of people don't know, a lot of American Jews don't know, but Jews partook in the Revolutionary War, right? They fought for their country. But yeah, Diana, give us your mashelle. I know you're thinking, I know you're cooking something up. And I want to hear. You can see my face. I see the wheels turning.

SPEAKER_04

We're your new congregation. Give it to us.

SPEAKER_01

One, I really feel what I'm hearing, which is like a love of country. I share that. I just love America. I agree there's a trending negativity. And a lot for some, there are real reasons, but also it's like you have to keep the big picture in mind about how amazing and exceptional and unique our country is. I also just want to know there are a lot of Jews that like our government right now. So I'm just acknowledging that as well. But the thing I really want to say is that I think it's a fraught moment. And I think that sort of pre-October 7th, we really had the assumption that America was going to be different, right? Like America was founded differently. George Washington wrote us a letter at the Inception of America that said, not only are we going to tolerate you, like we're going to embrace you. We thought America would be different because the Holocaust happened there, not here. The early reformers, when they came here pre-Isra pre-before the state of Israel, they literally believed in a religious sense that the West would bring forward their salvific vision. These were Reformed Jews, the leading reformed Jews. The West was going to be the answer for the Jews, and not just the West, but the United States of America because of religious freedom, because of tolerance, because it was different than Europe in lots of ways. And I think that post-October 7th, we're really mulling with the question of maybe America isn't different or how different is it really? And that's a heavy question. It doesn't diminish my love of country. It doesn't diminish my patriotism or my pride in being American. My grandparents were born in this country. It does put a very serious question mark there. And I think around the anniversary of 250, it's valid to think about what has this country meant for Jews in the past, but also what might it mean for Jews in the future.

SPEAKER_03

I was animated by similar questions when I went to work on the story that I reported over the past couple of weeks of American Jews feeling differently somehow about this country in this moment of rising anti-Semitism. Has something fundamental shifted after October 7th? And I talked to people and pretty much across the board in these conversations, what I heard, and I was really moved by a lot of them, frankly, was this sense that yes, there are aspects of what's going on now that might be quite troubling for our community, but a sense that America 250 and this anniversary provides an opportunity to recommit to what America is, what America has meant to the Jewish community. I talked to Dara Horne, the author, and she said to me, Look, people generally think of me as a prophet of doom and gloom. Those were her words. She is an amazing writer about anti-Semitism and so astute and thoughtful, but she was so optimistic and hopeful about the future of Jews in this country. She's like, look at a hundred years ago when you had Henry Ford, Father Cochlin on the radio, people who truly hated Jews and had a lot of purchase in this country. And she said the way that we moved on from that was not that people just suddenly decided they liked Jews and had a big change of heart. She was talking about for her what really moved her was thinking about the American Jewish activism of that age and Jews reclaiming their place in this country and the civic fabric and demanding that the rights and privileges that we have as Americans be applied to them. That's not to write off the concerns that people have, but there is something I think that's unique about living in this country as opposed to some other countries and the freedoms that we have and all of that. And so that's something that I just have been thinking about a lot going into the holiday weekend. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and this is on a less serious note and not exactly on the topic of Jews in America, but I've been really heartened and tickled by all the coverage that has been happening around tourists visiting America for the first time for the World Cup. Oh my gosh, 100.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Totally enamored and blown away and just freaking out over the most American things that we would probably write off as cheesy and gross and a reason for wanting to move to Europe. But they're like, oh my God, ranch dressing. There's like videos of them stuffing their suitcases with ranch and visiting gas stations, and they can't believe that like this monolith of a building that looks like a shopping center is actually a gas station. This naivete about it that's really cute and refreshing, and I think kind of offsets the heaviness of the moment. And I think that the coverage of it and the fact that so many Americans also are responding to it just speaks to the fact that we want to embrace America, right? We want to love our country. It feels good when we do, it feels good when we're like unified in a common goal or feeling or understanding of where we live and where we come from. And so I think that the timing of the World Cup and this, of course, it's a competition at the end of the day, but this unity around the obscenities of America and being able to laugh at it and also love it for its ridiculousness has been really heartwarming and nice to see.

SPEAKER_01

So humble brag. I got to go to a World Cup match, and it was Brazil-Morocco, and it was incredible. And exactly what you're talking about, Esther, I witnessed with my own eyes. First of all, we sat with the Brazil fans, which was life-changing, and they were wonderful and they danced and they cheered, and soccer was like a religious experience for them, I would say. And they also seemed to love the concession stand in a hilarious way. I just wanted to be like, have you never seen a soft pretzel before? What is happening? And because they mostly spoke Portuguese. These were like Brazilians from Brazil. So I did not get to inquire about their love of concessions and specifically the soft pretzel. But it was so wonderful and innocent to just see pure enthusiasm, love of American pop culture, and it also speaks to the power of sport to bring people from all backgrounds together.

SPEAKER_03

Well, there are the amazing scenes, of course, of for example, the Norwegian fans doing that cheer where they're like rowing and the people from Scotland who are wearing their kilts all around, including on the beach in Miami, which can't be comfortable. So all of those videos I'm basically obsessed with. And I also want to say on the American note as well, like this is a country of immigrants, as all of our ancestors were at some point. And just around town, wherever we live, of people from various immigrant communities being excited to cheer on their team. And I was talking to someone recently who was telling me that he had gone to the barber and the guy cutting his hair was from Morocco, and he just could not stop talking about how excited he was that Morocco is here playing in the World Cup. And I love that part of it as well. Like the people who are Americans, but are they can root for Team USA, and maybe they are, and they can also root for the team of whatever country they or their family came from, and they're still fully American for doing so.

SPEAKER_01

Morocco won on penalty kicks. Whew. It was amazing. Are you kidding? This is very important. This is very important.

SPEAKER_03

Diana, our sportscaster, sports currently.

SPEAKER_01

You don't even want to go down that rabbit hole with me. There's a whole other Diana in there. Not for this podcast.

SPEAKER_04

Cannot wait. I love this. I think you're right. It's like enjoy the long weekend, be with our families, be with our friends, and celebrate this country and our role in it. I think that's really important.

Jake Cohen

SPEAKER_04

All right, let's get to today's guest. I am so thrilled to be here with the one and only Jake Cohen, the New York Times bestselling author of cookbooks like Jewish, I could notch, and Dinner Party Animal. You're like all over Instagram. You're in seemingly every city with the Jewish community all of the time. And it's amazing to welcome you to Golden Girls, Jake.

SPEAKER_02

My pleasure.

SPEAKER_04

So, Jake, it's so great to catch up with you. And we're here on this episode. We're like getting ready for July 4th. We're talking about America, 250. We're talking about Jews, always. We're always talking about Jews. And I want to put this question to you because you are like a very big, proud public Jew. You're usually out there with your Jewish star. You're like very identifiable in every way. And I think that's a reason why people love you so much and why you have such a big following. And I just wanted to ask you about what your thoughts are on this moment for you as someone who is publicly Jewish.

SPEAKER_02

This moment as in America turning 250? As in this like America birthday. What's so funny? I saw this TikTok and it's this woman, and she's going, she's like, I would not go to war for America, but I would go to war for New York. For my country of New York, I'm enlisting. And it's very interesting because I'm such a New Yorker. I am like New York piece of shit. It is my center of the universe. I never want to leave. It's all I want to do. I'll be here and I'll be celebrating all things New York. And that's kind of of it. I feel like New York remains Jewish. New York remains celebrating Jewish. And I think everyone and their mother is always texting, oh, how does it feel to be a Jew in New York right now? And for me, the answer is always amazing.

SPEAKER_04

My bagel's Jewish.

SPEAKER_02

My bagel's Jewish.

SPEAKER_04

I've gotten to interview a bunch. I obviously know you pretty well, but I think there's something we've never really talked about. The Jewish moms love you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. You and your mother. I think the interesting thing is, and it's this intergenerational bonding that I really love.

SPEAKER_04

They are as hardcore as Swifties, I would say, for you. And you're totally right. There is an intergenerational component that I really want to get into. Also, this is a fan base. This is like a powerful fan base.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

You don't mess with them.

SPEAKER_02

And for me, there's something really powerful around the fact, and it's an interesting dynamic. I'm very big on the anthropology around pop culture and the social stock market and how people navigate a public persona, something I've always been obsessed with since I was a teenager watching reality TV. And for me, my greatest joy is that there's this intergenerational fandom for myself and my recipes between young Jewish women and their mothers, and the way that they bond over me, the way that they introduce each other. Where I'll 50% of the time, it's like, Oh my God, my mom introduced me to you. And the other 50% of the time, it's like, oh, my daughter introduced me to you. And the thing that's most fascinating is that I have a very separate social life from my public life. And my social community doesn't necessarily interact with the people that are my fans. And I really love that because there's this really beautiful anonymity that I get to have when I'm like at the club or doing uh things that that these Jewish mothers would, their minds would melt at.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe. Maybe they would like it. We don't know.

SPEAKER_02

No, it's like it's like once in a while, like once in a blue moon, I'll be like a club in Berlin and someone will like stop me and be like, I love your chal recipe.

SPEAKER_03

And in Berlin, amazing.

SPEAKER_02

That'll happen once versus I go to Barney Greengrass. It's a very different situation. And at the same time, it's a very different obsession because I, as uh I am the son that they want, I am the friend that they want, but I am not like so many of my peers that are women that they want to emulate. So they never want to be me in the same way that they want to be Sivon. And there is a very different relationship as a result. And that's a really it's a fascinating thing. It's something I'm very grateful for.

SPEAKER_03

When Stephanie told us that you were coming on Golden Girls, I, as one of the women who follows you on Instagram, was very excited and I immediately texted my mother and sister to let them know. My twin sister does some baking of her own. She lives in New Orleans and she bakes hala and has an Instagram and sells it in her local community. And they wanted me to send their love and greetings. And um, there is some inspiration there for my sister, especially as well.

SPEAKER_02

I love that. Oh, I'll get and the funny thing is that's like becoming more and more, and to be part of this movement of getting people to really bake hala, which has transcended into really the these women that are now baking in their own communities and selling it. I think the thing that's most that's I think funniest to me is my best friend in the food space is Ben Jinji, also incredible Jewish baker. And we'll like, we'll joke, we'll send pictures to each other. And sometimes I'll send him like a new Hala account that's selling online. And I know, I just know my recipe so well, and I can see when people use my recipe and are selling it. He'll send it to me and he'll just be like, that's your recipe. Just because it gives us such a unique kind of appearance that you then begin to see that I can have now trained myself to, but I digress. I love it. I think that the more that people bake, the better. However, which way they do it, God bless.

SPEAKER_00

So I I actually met Ben Jin. Wait, so it's Ben Jinji, right?

SPEAKER_02

Ben Ben Simantov is his real name for Ben Jinji. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I live in DL, New Jersey, and he was actually out here by one of my really good friends, Ariel Nier's house.

SPEAKER_02

Ariel Nier, of course, for the weekend. They invited me, but to like oh, you should have came.

SPEAKER_00

We would have had a good time.

SPEAKER_02

I was having a very gay weekend, and it was gonna do that here. And Ashbury Park was not calling me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'm Syrian, and the Syrian Jews are obsessed with cooking. There's a very competitive culture around cooking here. I'll be with either women my age or women of an older generation, and we'll be on Instagram, like sending recipes. Oh, I can make that better. I could do that, I've done that, but nobody ever says I could be Jay Cohen. You just have such a singular style. I think that you make it fun and silly and interesting. It's relatable, you don't take it too seriously, especially in some of these very tight-knit communities where cooking is the sport that we take very seriously. It's very refreshing to have someone that's just having a good time.

SPEAKER_02

It's very keeping up with the Steins. There is this, there's a higher stakes to it that I'm fascinated about. I again, I think this whole world, especially like the realm of Jewish women, it's something that I'm obsessed with. It's something that's so fascinating to me. This is a very, I had a very weird, not weird, but very unique human experience. I'm dating someone, and when I started dating my boyfriend, this was the first time that I've dated someone in this stage of my career. And like his sisters like already knew who I was and already like had been a fan of mine. And I think that was a very interesting experience to go through of seeing that from the other side. I love it. I'm not gonna like pretend like it is something that wasn't good. It's much worse if I was like someone that I had to convince them to like because I was a more polarizing figure on the other side.

SPEAKER_01

So, Jake, I'm one of those few Jews that doesn't know you from Instagram. Oh, Diana's not on Instagram, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. I love it. Right.

SPEAKER_01

It's only if I was on it, I would know you, I would follow you.

SPEAKER_02

And these and these Jewish women make sure to come up to me at any event or any space. And the first thing, I was just with Modi this weekend, and we always joke about there's the exact same thing where they'll come up and they'll be like, I've never heard of you, never heard of you, but my friend seems to love you.

SPEAKER_01

Right, okay. Well, I have interacted with you in the sort of old-fashioned way, which is analog. I got to hear you very recently speak in the middle of the night at the Tikun at the JCC in Manhattan. And as listeners of our podcast know, I am transitioning to I've been a congregational rabbi a long time, and now I'm transitioning to working at the JCC. So I'm gonna have this rich Jewish home life, God willing, that I've not had and I'm very nervous about making Shabbat dinner. And you described it as a practice.

SPEAKER_02

A discipline.

SPEAKER_01

A discipline. And I was like, oh my gosh, I know how to practice. I can practice. So thank you for enabling me and motivating me.

SPEAKER_04

So, Jake, it's interesting because what you're doing, like you're probably best known for your hala, as you mentioned. And that is something like you've mentioned, like, you're not one of these female food Instagram people, influencers, all that. You're doing something, and you you've really taken on like the idea of hosting and hosting Shabbat. And I feel like you've taken it from what we can see traditionally as like a woman's thing, a Jewish woman's thing, and you've made it into your own thing. And now we see a lot of people doing that. We have sort of like Benny Blanco, we have Haladad, who's one of my favorite people to follow on Instagram.

SPEAKER_02

There is Benny has never baked Hala unless I'm in the kitchen baking it.

SPEAKER_04

But I mean, just the idea of like taking on hosting and making this something that men do. Obviously, there are men who host, but I think there's something interesting and and in the gendered aspect of this. And I'm curious if you think about that along the way.

SPEAKER_02

I have just always been obsessed with the dialogue around what it means to play with traditional gender roles. And I think as we've explored so much of the feminist movement and then seen the pendulum swing back into the trad wife movement, and then you add into this conversation around the rise in these male content creators, around cooking, around preparing lunches for their kids, around taking so much of that domestic role. And then you add in gay people. It's just, it's all so fascinating. There is no one singular thread to talk about when it comes to hosting. I think to me, it's more so about these are disciplines, like I said, these are practices that are now becoming part of the universal human experience versus singularly gendered.

SPEAKER_04

I love that. We're on the cusp of the Fourth of July. We've been talking a lot about what everyone's doing. Esther's going to a Shababa queue. What are you thinking about? What are you doing? What's what's exciting you about Fourth of July this year?

SPEAKER_02

I'm in this space and I'm like, I have a big kind of project that I'm about to announce in the upcoming weeks that is tying me to New York. And with that, I'm not going anywhere far. And I've been, no, I think last year I spent July 4th crashing out in Berlin, which is when I got the beautiful compliment on my hollow recipe. This year, if all goes well, I'll be uh tripping acid on Fire Island. And that's how I'll spend my Shabah. And then if not, I'll be here hosting with my family or at friends or like wherever the wind takes me.

SPEAKER_04

What are like your summer barbecue? Do you have any tips? What should people know before they like enter this realm for the first time, or what should they be doing differently than they've been doing?

SPEAKER_02

It's all about prep. It's all all about prep. You want to be doing as little as possible other than grilling for a summer barbecue. I have an incredible menu called Grill's Gone Wild in my latest cookbook dinner party animal. And you do so much of the stuff in advance. And so that's like a beautiful potato salad. It's like a honey mustard potato salad because my sister hates mayo. And so I was doing that. And then this really lovely blanch green bean and grilled corn summery salad with pickled red onions. And then I just I am all about abundance and really focusing on fresh produce, lots of grilled bread with fresh heirloom tomatoes, anything you can imagine, go for it. So that also means oftentimes in the summer, I'll bake my jalas and then they'll be cooled. And I always love to reheat jala before serving. Oftentimes I'll wrap it in foil and throw the whole thing on the grill to warm through. And it gets even a little charred, which is really lovely. And so just have fun with it. Have desserts, chilled desserts. I love a tiribisu in the summer. I love a trifle. I love uh an ice cream sandwich that's already in the freezer that you just get to pull out.

SPEAKER_00

I have a question, Jake. When you're tripping on acid, do you get recipes that come to you? Is that a source?

SPEAKER_02

Interesting. Yes, there's definitely inspiration. I would say less about that. More, I would say more of my recipe inspiration comes from being stoned. This is more so for larger big picture where I am in my life, like greater answers from the universe. What is my purpose? What do I want to be focusing my energy towards? That definitely has been a huge impact in the way that I've navigated towards community building and Shabbat and hosting versus just doing, I don't know, other types of recipes or food things.

SPEAKER_03

Jake, give us like the 90 seconds how you got in all of our Instagram feeds and became all of our mother's favorite Instagram food person.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, how did it happen?

SPEAKER_02

It's such an annoying answer. It's a symbol of the fact that the internet, the way that the algorithms work, are to expose people to the masses. And for me, I only know authenticity, and I've I'm almost probably to a fault, wildly and radically transparent with who I am and the energy that I give off, and then it resonates with a specific demographic.

SPEAKER_04

So, Jake, you're gonna stick around and help us answer a listener question, and we'll be right back after this. Golden Gang, last week we announced a ticket giveaway for the new off-Broadway production of A Walk on the Moon. We asked our listeners to submit their favorite Jewish summer movie, and we got a lot of responses. I'm excited to announce our four winners who each win two tickets to the show, which is running through August 22nd at the Laura Pell's Theater in New York City. So I'm gonna tell you the winners and I'm gonna tell you their favorite movie, because I feel like that's an important piece of this package. Our first winner is Tyron Alper, who picked Wet Hot American Summer, of course. Becca Stoltz picked Dirty Dancing, a classic. Wendy Zuckerberg picked Grease, and she wrote, even though there is nothing Jewish about it except that my Jewish mom went to high school with John Travolta, which automatically wins. It wins all the prizes in our book. And then our final winner is Joshua Seva, who said heavyweights, which I respect and love. That movie is really amazing and underrated. And so Joshua Seva, he is here in the winner's circle. Congratulations to all four of them. We'll be sending them all the information they need to redeem their tickets to a walk on the moon.

Ask GOLDA: Kosher-Friendly BBQ

SPEAKER_04

All right, Golda Gang, we are here with Jay Cohen. He's gonna help us with our Ask Golda segment. And that's where we answer a listener question. This one is perfect for the holiday season. It comes in from Gina in New Jersey. She writes, Dear Golda, I'm not Jewish, but my new-ish husband is. We're having our first big barbecue this weekend, and some of his family keep kosher. How do I navigate the meat and dairy situation? I'll obviously have kosher hot dogs and burgers, but do we need a separate grill for kosher or non-kosher? Can I still serve cheeseburgers for people who want them? Can the dairy be on the same table? I want to be respectful, but I have no idea what to do. What do we think? We have a really good cast of experts here on this panel right now. What do we think? What do we tell Gina? How kosher and need to know. You gotta ask. Just ask the question.

SPEAKER_02

So here's the deal. I think it's so fascinating because there's such a wide spectrum of what that could mean. And to me, it's about being respectful, but also understanding that not everyone is gonna abide by that. So for me personally, it's like I've recently become more kosher. It used to be that I would never, I was just like, eh, not really eat it. And now I don't eat pork or shellfish. That being said, a cheeseburger, a chicken parm, that's still part of the equation. And so everyone has their different rules. There's so many people that are like, oh yes, I'm kosher. And the next thing I know, I see them, them eating uh provolone on their turkey sandwich. They're like, no, but this doesn't count. Or they would look at me like I was crazy for eating bacon, and yet for them, shrimp was okay to each their own. That being said, it's so easy to make. What I tend to do, especially to be respectful of so many guests who are kosher style, everything can predominantly be dairy-free, especially with a barbecue. The concept of having all your sides be parv is as simple as can be. Make sure you're only using like kosher beef hot dogs or even like ordering kosher beef for the burgers. And then make an exception for the one or two people that want a cheeseburger and just make sure that you make those last. It's about respect in the highest form.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think respect is a key word in the equation. First of all, I love Gina's attitude. She's hosting, she's welcoming people, she's trying to make it nice and make it appropriate for her husband's extended family. Sounds like she needs a few more pieces of communication and question asking from them. What I wouldn't want to happen is that she goes to all this trouble and then they're not gonna eat anyway. Because that's gonna feel disrespectful to her, plus it's a lot more work. So we want to avoid that because some people have a strict alophic closure approach and they're not gonna eat meat at her house, in which case she needs to know to make an alternative plan. But I think usually as long as this stuff is done in the spirit she has, which is positivity, openness, respect, it works out pretty well. So I think she's on the right track, willing to make accommodations to meet their needs.

SPEAKER_00

Also, on the topic of the grill, I think that if you get the grill just super hot, like really blindingly hot, it technically kosures the grill, anyways. Love that. That's I don't know. You could fact-check me, but I'm pretty sure. No, the grill is the easiest surface to deal with on this, but still have a variety of pickles and half source.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah. Love, love, love, love. I'll just add, first of all, Jake, we are aligned on Kashroot lately. For me, I went the other direction and grew up not mixing meat and milk. And in recent years, I have taken to loving a cheeseburger. So I'm excited for that this weekend. But I will just I can even live without the cheeseburger.

SPEAKER_02

Really, I would say chicken parm is the one thing that's never going over.

SPEAKER_03

Baby steps, Jake, baby steps. I have a friend whose father is a professor and his expertise is the Bible. And she grew up eating chicken parm because that's like the biblical cash root. The calf in the mother's milk doesn't apply to chicken. Anyway, I digress from the question, but just to say you're very Jewish, Jake. According to this scholar, your cashroot is perfect. But I think in terms of the barbecue, I'll just throw in talk to your in-laws. They're gonna think it is so sweet that you are asking them and want to know. And I think most of us who keep any degree of kosher, and again, which for most people is somewhere on that spectrum, we know that to outsiders, it's incredibly confusing. And people are like, Well, you keep kosher, but it's different from this other person. And I feel like he's your newish husband. You're on the right path. My great-grandmother always used to say, at least according to my mom, who quotes her a lot, she would say, start as you mean to go on. So do the thing that you're gonna do now and keep it in your relationship. And so have the conversation. They're gonna love that you want to know what being Jewish means to them and enjoy the barbecue. Amazing. Well, Gina, keep us posted.

SPEAKER_04

Tell us how it goes, send us some pictures. Jay Cohen, thank you for being a guest on Golda Girls.

SPEAKER_02

My pleasure.

SPEAKER_04

And we hope you have a really, really fun 4th of July weekend.

SPEAKER_02

Trust me, it's gonna be fun one way or another.

SPEAKER_04

Golda Gang, this is the summer of Mahjong, and we are here for it. We're bringing our sold-out signature New York City Mahjong events out east this summer. So join us Monday, July 13th for a special afternoon of open play at Magic Montauk, the brand new fitness and wellness space from SoulCycle co-founder Elizabeth Cutler. We are so excited to be there. And we'll be there with our brand new beautiful sets from the Mahjong line. And we'll be giving away prizes from our friends at Literary Candle, Rowan, Social Goods, Nessie, Squeen, Serve It Up, and more. And then on Tuesday, August 18th, we're letting the kids get in on the fun with Mini Maj at ColourPop Workshop Southampton Studio. This event was actually mentioned in a recent free press article all about how much kids are loving Mahjong. We're gonna have fun treats from Bakeful and Wave Kids, plus mocktails, fun prizes, so much more. There's a link to sign up for both of these events in our show notes, or you can check out all of our upcoming events at Goldeguide.com/slash P slash events. All right, let's get back to those Golden Girls. GoldenGuy, before we get to Good for the Jews, our

Listener Mail

SPEAKER_04

final segment of the show, I want to read some listener mail that's been coming in. I get to see the inbox, and I realize that the three of you do not. So I want to just share what people are saying. Diana, these are sort of all in response to things that you've said, which I like. That's what we're highlighting this week. And the first letter comes from Michelle Ann, who writes that hearing that you're looking for recipes to make for Shabbat dinner, she wanted to share her family's chicken paper cash recipe. Recipe comes from her great-great-grandmother who immigrated to the US from Hungary. Really special is that her family cooks this with matzo balls. Matzo balls are in the braising liquid, and it's really fantastic, served over egg noodles, rice, or traditional no kedli, the traditional Hungarian dumpling. She says it's a great make-ahead dish because it gets better the longer it cooks. So, Dan, Diana, we'll be sending you that recipe. And she says, I'm loving the podcast. It feels like one of my Jewish group chats. And I'm like, that is that's the vibe.

SPEAKER_01

That's so lovely. Thank you for writing in. I'm gonna try it. No promises if it's gonna be good, but I am gonna try it.

SPEAKER_04

And we have another letter in from Robin who says she's loving the podcast and has a question that she because she wants to purchase the book of Psalms for herself as a birthday present. Yes. Your summer reading Book of Psalms suggestion, it's taking off in a way that I was not expecting. I will be honest. This is like the this is not the first person we've heard from who is buying and interested in buying that book. So she wants to know if there's a specific edition that you recommend.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, okay. So I actually know, because I usually, when I read it at home, I use the JPS Tanakh, which is like a huge big book of the Tanakh is the entire Torah, not just the first five books of Moses, but the whole thing and the Psalms is a part of that. So I have the bad eyesight, it's nice and big, it's Hebrew, it's English. That's what I use at home, just the JPS Tanakh. But a lot of people read it on the go. You can also read it on the train if you're a New Yorker, or it's great for commuting because you can read it in short spurts. And for that, I would look for the pocket Psalms, a smaller one that you could throw in your bag. There are beaches.

SPEAKER_03

There are apps as well, like Psalms apps. I don't have one in particular to recommend, but I do know that's a thing. And I will just say, Diana, I love that for you. The book of Psalms is your gateway drug to the entire Tanakh.

SPEAKER_01

It's not because I love the entire Tanakh as a general matter, but that's just where I'm reading it. What I'm reading.

SPEAKER_03

But if our listeners want your copy of the book of Psalms, they're gonna have to do the whole Tanakh. That's right. That's a listener giveaway.

SPEAKER_04

Stay tuned for that. All right,

Good for the Jews

SPEAKER_04

it's time for our final segment of the show, good for the Jews. I'm gonna start off, I'm gonna keep things on theme, and I'm gonna I want, I'm gonna say America. America is good for the Jews. We must remain optimistic. This country has allowed us to achieve so much. My on my dad said, my grandparents came here, right? And the life that they built for themselves after the Holocaust was like a beautiful life, and it's it was one of celebration and love. And my my mother's family goes back maybe one or two generations more, but like we're pretty new here. And I think that there is something, first, there's something both so integral in America's founding with the Jewish story. And then there's also this embrace of those of us who came here more recently. And I think that's something we need to remember, and I think that's something that I want to celebrate this weekend.

SPEAKER_03

I'm not gonna copy Stephanie and say America, because of course I do agree that America is good for the Jews. And I'll just add related to what Stephanie just said, the Supreme Court said this week that President Trump's efforts to overturn birthright citizenship, which frankly we have all benefited from, is not constitutional. So immigrants who have children who are born here, they will be American citizens as they have been. That's just context. My good for the Jews that I'll say is that it's June when we're recording this. It'll be July when you're listening, but still relevant. And June is Pride Month. And I think pride parades are good for the Jews. And I'm not someone who is part of the LGBT community, but I love seeing how excited people are to just be part of a community and show off exactly who they are. And I think that's something that we in our community can learn from. And there's a lot of amazing opportunities for gay Jews to march proudly as who they are. And I just want to share one quick example because we've also seen over the past few years that their pride parades have not always been the most welcoming for queer Jews over the past few years, as there's been anti Israel politics coming into a lot of those situations. Spaces. I was texting with a cousin of mine who I am visiting soon in Denver. And he sent me a very cute picture of his little daughter at the Pride Parade wearing a rainbow shirt. And he told me that in the parade there was a queers for Palestine float or section or whatever. And he said, our lesbian Zionist friend group had their own bullhorns and were screaming back at them. It was quite a scene. And I love that they set up a prime spot on the parade route to make clear that they were also part of this community. They were gonna have a bullhorn battle and just asserting that not just as gays and lesbians, but also as Zionists, that they're part of the Pride Parade. And I love that. I respect them for it.

SPEAKER_01

So I accidentally went to the Pride Parade in New York City. I was, to be honest, I was trying to do a return at Aritzia. Okay. And there I found myself at the Pride Parade, which was a happy accident. And I'm wary of unfortunately some of the marches that have happened now for exactly the reason you're talking about, Gabby. They've been less and less welcoming, to put it mildly. And we've seen that in the news this past week. But what I did see there were not one, but several rainbow flags with a Jewish star on it. And that just felt good to say, hey guys, we're here, we're proud, we're part of this community, we're here, we're career, we're Jewish city. Yes. And so while it I have to admit, it was an accident that I attended the parade parade, it was a happy.

SPEAKER_04

Do we have any photos of you there, by the way? Would love that.

SPEAKER_01

You think I do like selfies of my me, like all around the city, just like posing and preparing. No, but you should. No. Okay. So my good for the Jews is I have a little figure here, is the golem.

SPEAKER_03

As many of you know, for the host who brought you the book of Psalms, a pocket-sized golem to go with your pocket-sized book of Psalms.

SPEAKER_04

Wait, tell us. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. This is so good.

SPEAKER_01

That's what I was told to do. Is this wrong? I love it so much. So the golem, good for the Jews. So, as many of you know, a golem is a made-up, mystical, magical creature, unformed, made of clay, and very much associated with Jewish folklore, perhaps most associated with the Jews of medieval Prague. And the Golem is a symbol that's been used in lots of different ways throughout Jewish history. But I think it's really right now a symbol of hope and a symbol of protection for the Jewish people and for a really bright future where we're strong. The golem you'll I'm holding mine for those not on camera. It's a muscle little figure. So very strong and muscular, but also strong metaphorically and spiritually protected and fortified and emboldened. So my good for the Jews is the golem because it represents hope and possibility for a very bright future.

SPEAKER_04

I need one of those in this office. Can you send me a link to where you found this?

SPEAKER_01

No, I can't. I'm sure I bought it. I'm sure I bought it before the internet existed, and I'm sure I bought it in Europe, but I will show it to you and you can.

SPEAKER_04

It's like a stretch armstrong golem.

SPEAKER_00

That's what I like. It's very cute. He's a tough little guy. Diana always brings props, and I love it. Okay, so my good for the Jews, we must talk about Jewish comedy legends. Mel Brooks just having celebrated his 100th birthday a few days ago. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Forget America 250. We got Mel Brooks 100.

SPEAKER_00

We got Mel Brooks 100, Brooklyn born. That's a big chunk of the 250. It really is. Like, by the way, we should get Mel Brooks' comment on America 250.

SPEAKER_04

Well, I'm so excited, not only for all of us to be celebrating this weekend, but two of our hosts are headed off on vacation. Diana and Gabby will not be with us next week. Esther and I will be bringing on a very special surprise guest host, but we will miss you and we'll see you when you're back. I'll miss you. It's such a special part of my week. Please take selfies, Diana. Send us regular selfies. I want to know everything that both of you are doing. The commitment to this podcast is ongoing. It is extreme and ongoing, and it requires photos of everything you do.

SPEAKER_03

The FOMO of missing an episode is like incredibly real. I'm worried I'm gonna come back and you and Esther are gonna be best friends, and Diana and I are gonna lose inside jokes. So yeah, I'm preparing for that.

SPEAKER_04

So many inside jokes. Don't worry, Gabby.

SPEAKER_03

We'll make it. I'll text you separately, Diana. Side chat.

SPEAKER_04

You guys can do your own spin-off vacation podcast. All right, Golda Girls is a production of Golden

Credits

SPEAKER_04

Media. The show is hosted by me, Stephanie Buttony with Gabby Deutsch, Diana First Go, and Esther Shahebar. Ariel Shapiro is our executive producer. We're edited by the team at Poldu. Get more Golda and subscribe to our newsletter at Goldeguide.com. Follow us on Instagram at Goldeguide. And in our show notes, you will find links to sign up for Gabby Deutsch's Substack and Diana's mailed newsletter, Modern Jewess, that comes to your actual mailbox. I love it. There's a link to buy Esther's novel, Sisters of Fortune. And why not? My book, The Newest Jewish Encyclopedia. All of that in your show notes. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and we'll send you a Golda sticker. Just send a screenshot of your review to Hi at Goldeguide.com and send us your Ask Golden questions there too. Hi at Goldeguide.com. After we record this, I actually am going to put a bunch of stickers in the mail because we got a lot of reviews on a lot of stickers to send out. As always, thanks for listening and stay golden.

SPEAKER_02

That's a Golda podcast.

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Diana Fersko

Host
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Esther Chehebar

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Gabby Deutch

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Stephanie Butnick

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