Visual Noise: Walls Talk - Dogma Slaps

In this episode of Visual Noise: Walls Talk, TRP613 and Urban Ninja sit down with Toronto street artist DOGMA, a creator who has carved out a unique space in the city's sticker and wheatpaste scene. Known for his unmistakable dog character and thought-provoking street interventions, DOGMA's work can be found layered throughout Toronto's urban landscape. His project, Dogma Slaps, has become a recognizable part of the city's ever-changing visual conversation.

What makes DOGMA's work stand out isn't just the image itself—it's the way he embraces the temporary nature of street art and turns it into part of the creative process. While many artists see tags and vandalism as the end of a piece, DOGMA sees them as the beginning of something new.

One of his most innovative techniques is what he calls "Invisislaps." These stickers are protected with a removable clear top coat. When someone tags, scribbles on, or damages the sticker, DOGMA peels away the protective layer, taking the vandalism with it and revealing a fresh sticker underneath. The result is a constantly evolving piece of street art that can be reborn again and again. It's a clever response to the reality that street art lives in a public space where nothing stays untouched for long.

Throughout the conversation, DOGMA shares stories from the streets of Toronto, discusses the philosophy behind his work, and explains how repetition, visibility, and adaptation have become central themes in his art. His iconic dog image has become more than just a character—it's a symbol that keeps reappearing across the city, surviving weather, tags, and time itself.

This episode explores creativity, impermanence, and the strange life cycle of street art. From stickers and wheatpastes to innovative techniques like Invisislaps, DOGMA proves that sometimes the best way to fight the streets is to work with them.

Tune in for a conversation about art, resilience, and finding new ways to leave your mark on the city.

Music credit:

“Funk Groove Music” by Alex Gus via Pixabay

Transcript

0:09

What's up everybody? Ninja and Trip here. Welcome to our podcast, Visual Noise Walls Talk. This is a podcast where we interview street artists, we talk about art. Uh welcome to the show. Today we have uh one of our homies, Dogma, from uh Toronto here. What's up, Dogma? Yo, thanks for having me. Good to hear from you. Tell us a little bit about yourself in case people don't know uh who you are, what you do, where you're from, all that some uh stuff. Oh, geez. Well, I mean, it goes back more than a half century now, Trip. So I'm getting I'm an old man. I feel like an old man. I'm a dad, I'm a dog dad, I'm a bird dad. Uh I've had various careers, and uh lately I'm calling myself an artist. Nice. Always an artist? Or is this just a new thing? I mean, this is a new thing for sure. Yeah. Okay. But uh, you know, that question, are you who I mean, aren't we all kind of artists in our way, right? Absolutely. And uh so some of us express it. And I was thinking about it this morning. You know, I love Lego, and there's this uh there's this, I think like a uh this thing in Lego land where they they there's this community they call themselves A Falls, A-F O L, Adult Fans of Lego, right? And I remember hearing about this years ago, and they would talk about there being this dark age, like they played with Lego as a kid, and then there's a dark age, life happens, life happens. They didn't even maybe think about Lego for a long time, and then at some point in their life they were back at it, and now they're adult fans of Lego, and they're probably doubling, tripling down. So I feel a little bit like that with the art. Like I love to draw as a kid, and then there were probably many years where I didn't really put pen or pencil to paper, and uh, you know, whatever the brain was still working, I was still seeing the world, but uh yeah, so only within the last now it's maybe two and a half years or something. Okay, okay, okay, cool. Um first question for you Um, are there any recent street artists out there that you like and that have inspired you? Oh, boom. Well, I mean, this it's an honor to be on your guys' podcast because both of you guys are direct inspirations. Like uh, I was trying to think when I first saw your stuff trip. I'm not sure. Right? I've definitely started noticing once I was slapping, and I had seen ninja, like being here in Toronto, I'd definitely seen Ninja in various stages of like uh fresh and everywhere and everywhere, sizes, scales, you know, poses, and I just loved that, and that had always caught my attention. And I've always loved like street art, I've always had my eye to the you know, on the walls on the poles and stuff like that. Like that's kind of how I've loved to glide through cities. I love cities, and then you know, I've because of doing this thing now, I've gotten on Instagram for the very first time, right? So now I'm exposed to seeing stuff that's not on the walls around my that I that I see when I'm walking around. So to see the walls in Paris or you know, recently in Indonesia or New Zealand, you know, and this stuff is inspiring to me. And it's sometimes it's not even the images, it's just the existence of it, you know, the expression. For sure. When you're on the streets uh putting your stuff up, how do you handle yourself with people around? Are you comfortable, uncomfortable? You know, I mean, I guess I'm I'm comfortable. I'm uh like a raging introvert who will happily have uh a lively and passionate conversation with a total stranger on the street. Like I actually love having those conversations. So you know, when when I'm out, you know, you've you're a bit on a swivel and uh paying attention. But if somebody is interested, I'm more than happy to uh to talk. And you know, I can think now of uh one spot, it's down at Leslie Lookout Park, this kind of new park in uh uh in the in the Portlands of Toronto. And I was doing a little thing on a light post, and these two gentlemen, maybe birders or or something, uh had looked at me going one way, and then on the way back, I could see the the the one of the gentlemen was walking pretty slowly and was itching to say something, said hi, you know, and he was not too keen on what I was up to. And I'm not there to convince him of anything or have an argument, but I said what I just told him what I was doing, and uh and uh he said what he felt about it. And we weren't like uh neither of us was angry. I don't that I I think he was slightly intrigued to see it in action. And so I'm equally happy to meet supporters and people who think it's you know vandalism. Uh, and I'm I'm keen to have those conversations. So I've yet to kind of butt heads with uh security guards or police or anything like that. So maybe that conversation would be different, but I'm also keen to have that. And uh, you know, that's one of the things why I really love stickers, is because I think there's a great conversation to be had. Like I would gladly have that with anybody about the impact of stickers. I I honestly I love having that conversation with people that either like it or don't, and you know, explain to them that like it's just art, it's color, it's beauty, it's fun, you know, not meant to upset you. Um, you know, it's just trying to put positivity out in the world. And if somebody takes it the wrong way, well, you know, that's that's kind of like on them. Yes, but you know, and that's part of dogma slaps is that I don't know what is the wrong way to take it, really. I'm I'm making something and I'm putting it there. I might think something about it, but I'm not here to tell you what to think about it. And so, you know, I'm interested in what happens to it after. I'm as equally excited to see a slap still shining a year later as I am to see it ripped down, like when I walk back the way 20 minutes later. I have a question about that. So for you, for those of you who don't know dogma slaps, sometimes you put these slaps up, and I honestly have no idea how you do it, but you will put up like almost two, and then someone will like you know, tag or paint over it, and then you go up and you like peel off this yeah, tag this sticker that you've put up, and it shows this like your exact same sticker underneath it. You know, like I've never seen anything like that. It always like blows my mind. I'm like crazy. That is pretty crazy. Explain that process. Yeah, explain this. You know, this is the this is like the exactly 100 million percent what is dogma slaps, okay? Because I had uh I'd never made a sticker before. I decided I was gonna make a sticker, and I kind of you know did the thing what you do now. You search it up, yeah, and uh I search it up, and I see some people on YouTube making stickers, and so the first ones I tried was with parchment paper, packing tape, you know, printer paper, stuff that I kind of had lying around, and I went for it, and some of those first ones were like the most delightful accidents. I did stuff backwards, and all that ended up was just the tape. I remember one of those ones I did, I was quite happy it was gonna be this big dog head, and I went to like rele leave the sticker there, and all that got left was this tape in the shape. The silhouette. That's like a total failure. But wait a second, I've done something here. It's like it wasn't there before, it's my expression, and maybe you know, this is part of my learning process. Maybe this is uh not a failure. I call those go go stickers, you know. It's when I put my thing up and yeah, somebody peels it off and it leaves that outline of your character, and it's like it's still there. Well, I ended up calling them Invisa slaps. Right, that's right. I I I I mean it's several stages later in my sticker making evolution, but I kind of leveled up to dollar store supplies. And uh at that time in the major dollar store chain, you could buy these packs of adhesive paper, eight and a half by eleven sheets of white adhesive paper, like a giant sticker basically. Yeah, yeah, and you can also buy these laminate rolls, like a roll of laminate. Like I should show you guys for your own purpose. Anyway, and is it sticky, the laminate? The laminate is sticky, gotcha, right? So you can make a clear stuff. And yeah, okay. One of my main inspirations uh that I haven't mentioned is uh Azoko, the office supply artist, and he's making kind of these transparent stickers now, and he's using those laminate rolls. Yeah, you you were the one that told him about this because now he does it all the time. He well, and right, and he's taking it in his own way, as that's why I love that guy so much. Like he's pure art, and uh yes, and he's definitely run with that. So I decided I was gonna make my stickers on these pages, and then I was gonna laminate them and put them, put them up. And I didn't intend that at all, Trip. Like again, it was an accident. I think uh I can't quite exactly remember what happened first, if whether one just fell apart on the wall or whether somebody ripped it off and I saw the thing left behind. And because I'm hand-cutting these things, and a lot of them have that nice silhouette that I could still see it. I don't know whether others others could see it, but I could definitely still see it. So wait, at this moment, yes, you at this moment you're just doing hand drawings. You you've never printed with a company. Yeah, man. I keep I keep stepping up to the cliff of wanting to get something printed, but I just can't bring myself to do it because I just uh I'm making every sticker, and uh that's like part of it. I don't know what crazy maniacal part of it that is. But now I'm at the point where I'm wanting to see what what's what happens to the sticker. I love if somebody paints over it, and you know, I understand there's like this a little bit of this game going on in this culture about you know who goes over who and who does this to what. And you know, I'm an old man, like I said earlier, and I'm not into necessarily playing the games, but I understand that I'm playing the games by putting my thing on the wall, I'm part of the I'm part of it. Yeah, and so somebody puts their big uh well, I don't know, the right term, you know, their big name over my and they put their name beautifully over it. Yeah, yeah. And you know, I'm happy they did that thing, and I don't think they were necessarily disrespecting me. Okay, so I don't think they will necessarily think I'm disrespecting them if I come and peel the laminate off. And somehow the sticker, like the drawing that I've made on the paper, has now adhered to the laminate in some to some degree, and some of it is left on the wall. So it's basically, yeah, so it's basically you're saying this is my spot. Yes and no. Yes and no. I mean, I'm not ninja because I'm not here to, it's not about a win or lose or me better than you, or uh, you know, I'm trying to erase you. I think if you put your stuff on the street, you're not in control. And uh, whether it's, you know, it's ephemeral, right? It's this thing you're putting out there that if it's made out of paper, if you're doing paper stickers and it rains a couple times, it's gonna probably come off. Or, you know, somebody comes and scrapes it off, or somebody tags over it. It's just this thing that you have to be okay with that when you're when you're in the sticker game, the street art world, because it's not it's not yours anymore. I don't know if you have to be anything though, Trip, because some people I think really work, I mean, really have a different vision for how their stuff might live. Yeah, you know, and that I've come to really appreciate or try hard to really appreciate that, you know, everybody has their own vision for what what they're doing. And some people don't want my stupid stuff next to their stuff, you know, and uh that that's fine. And I don't I kind of don't want to know a little bit. Well, it's all part of the game, right? You're just it's it's a game you're playing and you're putting yourself out there and you know, kind of you go from there, really. Yeah, so I think for me, if I'm putting it out there, I know that it's gonna be talking probably more directly to folks like you guys and other folks who are really playing to that, but I'm so I'm talking to you, but I'm just talking to everybody, you know, like anybody who'll pay attention. And uh really, you know, that's what dogma's about too, is that dogma is my dog Marley, right? Uh-huh. Who's the the I was thinking the movie muse of this thing? Sorry, she's not here right now. Wait, the the Kevin Smith movie? Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Uh I was thinking the Kevin Smith, like Jay and Silent Bob, dogma. Yes, you can I am I invite you to think whatever you want, right? Because dogma is a big word that means uh stuff that I've thought about a lot. You know, and I worked uh, I could say in the news business for uh a long time. Uh that's a lot about telling stories, and it's a lot about uh speaking to you know what we believe, what we understand without really thinking about it. Who's right and who's wrong, what's up and down now, what's truth and what's not truth, or facts and not facts. Like this stuff got crazy. And I'm always thinking about, you know, what do I think about this? Like when I really put my mind to it. And that's what I want other folks to do. I wanted other folks to do that for, you know, uh a long time when I was in one of my careers. And now I'm doing it on my own terms. That's great because the the you know, that kind of answers my the next question was does your art uh carry a message or is it just visually interesting? And you've kind of answered that, you know, like is there is there a message to your art besides positivity and love and just fun? Do you think dogma slaps is that what you're saying about dogma slaps though, that it's positivity and I think so? Boom. I I mean I think I I think you know, you don't, you know, you don't have dicks, you don't have like you know, drugs, you don't have any of that stuff. I think anything with like a character like ninja and like myself, I think it's all positivity. I think it's love, I think it's great. Uh uh, you know, I love seeing that kind of shit. Okay, so you so I I really feel like a glow right now because that is definitely a success. And one of my first phrases I put on the on the thing is not a puppy. So you gotta, if you walk up real close, you know, you might see it there somewhere real close, it's gonna say not a puppy. And that one of my favorite uh you know artworks of all time is that pipe, and it says Sasina Puzzle Peep, right? Like I love that because what the hell am I looking at then? And so the same thing. I wanted to make something super cute. Okay, so your character is an your actual dog. The character is the dog, yeah, for sure. Okay, is uh is like this black and silver and white poodle, Marley. Oh, yes, and uh someone that means a lot to me helped me come up with this dogma that it's the portmanteau of uh and it really speaks to this thing about what I what I want to draw attention to. So I'm hoping you will look at this cute character trip and you'll see a cute puppy, but then maybe if you look closer, you'll s like think why the hell is the puppy like in a suit with a red tie? I I I love it. I love it. Why the hell wears a red tie? That's a business dog, yeah. It's a business dog. Um, you know, and there's a certain uniform maybe of of of a very powerful leader who wears a red tie, who maybe I don't really think is the is is maybe the most positive leader that we've seen of late. And so I've got my paw, my my cute puppy with the red tie giving a thumbs up. It's like I'm having this wrestle with myself that probably no one else will ever see, or until now I'm opening my big mouth. So I've I'm I'm drawing this cute puppy, it's giving its stamp of approval in a way, it's got its thumbs up. But what does the artist think about it? You know, is it love and fun trip? Yeah, it is, but is it really like what am I uh what am I saying? Like, oh, you know, so for me it's a little bit like that. Same thing. Like, I want the uh people's love uh cool sneakers. I love cool sneakers. Oh, so I will often put my characters in cool frickin' sneakers because I love cool sneakers, but what the frick is up with cool sneakers, people? Well, to me, and thankfully the trend has dropped down a little bit, but you know, to $500 on on some cool sneakers. I mean, no, that's crazy. But you know, for me growing up in the 90s, like when the Jordans came out and Tinker Hatfield, who designed them, like to me, he is like an incredible artist, you know. Like uh, I don't know if you know who Tinker Tinker is, but he's you know, like sneakers, you know, anyone who grew up in the 90s, 80s, you know, and and went through this like sneaker renaissance of uh all these like amazing shoes coming out, it it's pretty cool. Yeah, but okay, and it's sneakers, but it's also the advertising I remember from back in those days. There was some of those uh there was like the Air Max piece, and you would see some sort of blueprint pieces, and they'd be talking about like the the air pocket, which was brand new to us then, and they'd be telling you a little bit about the technology, and then you've got that, you know, the font that they use, and that stuff has gone beyond just the shoes that we wear on our feet, right? It's it's we can we can recognize all that stuff just instantly, I as like it become iconography. Yeah, branding for sure. Branding. Yeah, overall, it just seems like you're having fun, you know what I mean? That's the most important thing, right? Yes. Um, how do you define a success for a street artist? Like what's the goal or what is success? Yeah, good question. Okay, well, that's what that's again back to the beginning of when I when I embraced the the stickers getting ripped off, right? Nothing is a failure is another phrase I use all the time. And that kind of comes from live, laugh, love, or all these corny motivational posters you might see around. So nothing is a failure rings off as a corny motivational phrase, like uh, you know, nothing uh you can do can be wrong. You know, I'm the most supportive doting dad. Uh to me, the the the big meaning of that is nothing is a failure. If I don't do anything, that is the failure. Right? So for my measure of success for a street artist, if they're calling themselves a street artist, or even if they're not calling themselves, but they're putting something on the street, then boom, they're way in a success. If they don't do anything at all, then and they wanted to like be that, then that would be the failure. And that was like, you know, I have loved looking at the streets, uh uh art on the streets for you know, as long as I can remember. Um it's only recently that I I I turned the dream into action. So for many years I could say it was I was slightly a failure, and and now I could slightly say I'm a success. Although this might be the first time I'd ever say it. Okay, nice. But yeah, I mean, why the hell not? Because uh I'm doing something, and uh so if anyone else is putting pen to paper or paint to wall or I don't know what now it might be, it's digital stuff folks can do. I wish I could, I wish I knew any of that. You know, so whatever they're doing, it's amazing. And uh yeah, that's my measure for them. I I I think that's great. I think that's uh, you know, like just do something is kind of what you're saying. You know, whatever you're doing is great, and that's a success. And if you love doing it and want to do it, just do it, you know? Yeah, the hardest part is kind of declaring it. I've met a few people, you know. I recently met one guy in in in our graffiti alley downtown Toronto, and he had this amazing kind of camera setup, and he looked real serious, and whatever he was doing, he looked he was well into it. And you know, like I just said, I'm a raging introvert. So I introdu I introduced myself to him and asked him what he's up to. And he said he's making this little art film, and I said, you know, oh, where can I see it? And then he moved, shifted into that mode where oh no, no, no, no, no. Um, this isn't ready, it's not good. Uh one day you'll see it. I'm not doing anything. Like, you know, he's he's already was talking himself down, and I wasn't feeling like his would this would be the time for the conversation with him. Like, you know, you're already doing it, just don't talk yourself out of it. Yeah. So, you know, we often talk ourselves out of stuff. Or uh for me, it's the opposite. Uh, you know, daring to make the declaration, oh, I'm doing this. Go outside the box. Is there are there any like uh I I don't know if you've had uh art school training or if you've looked at, you know, previous artists from 100, 200, 300 years ago. Are there any like passions? Like kind of I would say masters that have inspired you. Like and and I I talk about uh Duchamp and how the urinal really got me and and I just thought it was so awesome. Is there anyone like that that really you know you saw and were like, oh, this is incredible and inspired you? For in terms of the streets, I mean, we've got cave prehistoric cave paintings, we've got we've got cave, well, I mean, there are cliff paintings here in Ontario that you can go and paddle up to, which are amazing. Uh, I mean, that stuff lingers in the back of my mind. I know in the southern England there's these chalk kind of drawings that are on the sides of hills. You can see them from miles away. And one of them is uh, you know, my uh near where my uh grandparents lived when I was a kid, and uh this figure with a giant um phallus. You know, that made an impression. That was that's kind of like street art. And then uh I love when people spray paint dicks on stuff. I think it's hilarious. Oh, you know, I love it. I love the most classic forms. It's either that or was here, you know. Especially if it's really bad, you know, like just like a really badly drawn dick is like hilarious to me. I laugh my ass off me too every time. Yeah, it's so immature, but I'm just like, yes, yes, more, you know, more dicks, more dicks. Uh just like swear words, they're perfectly appropriate, but we also have more descriptive language that we could use to maybe express ourselves even better. So if I were to encounter a penis painter, I would have that conversation with them, but I wouldn't be stopping them from doing whatever they're doing. Uh, you know, but listen, I love surrealism, I love pop art, I love uh, you know, I love every phase of art actually that I've uh that I've uh never learned the names of. And people who were artists and scientists and mathematicians. I mean, there's that that's what's in the art history. And then, you know, what's art these days is um toys and uh stuff like that, you know. We uh I'm I'm inspired by that kind of stuff. I'm inspired by you guys, or just seeing um even just shapes on the walls. Sure. Yeah. And who's the first street artist that that you've actually met? Good question. You know, when I made the the decision that I was, you know, gonna do this, or whatever. It seems like a weird thing to say, but yeah, you you gotta make a decision to do to do it. And I was you know, I was inspired by I an artist I didn't know, right? We mentioned him already, it's office supply artist. This guy was putting up uh hand-drawn, what looked to me like hand-drawn stickers, so and some of them gy ginormous, right? Uh you know, two feet stickers. And when I saw those, like those stood out because most stickers that you see out there are like I'm gonna put it in air quotes, mass-produced in the sense they're printed, right? I know they're the hand of the artist or whatever that someone's or often someone's drawn them or designed them, but these ones literally were appeared to be hand-drawn. Uh like I thought, oh, well, literally, I don't need to go through all these steps, and even if I had a printer at home to go through all these steps to print this thing out, I could just do this one time. I could just make one drawing and adhere it to the wall, and that could be it. That could be enough. But uh that slowly dawned only after seeing this guy's stuff everywhere, and often actually ripped off the walls, too. But he also has very unique silhouettes. He's hand cut these things, and you can recognize it often. Well, uh, when you're obsessed, you can recognize it every time when somebody has ripped it off. So that kind of inspired me to get going, and it took a minute to kind of figure out who the artist is because they're they weren't emblazoning it with their Instagram handle, you know, it wasn't even obvious what the name was. Yeah. Again, third time or whatever, I'm an old man, so I'm it's hard for me to read, you know, graffiti writing or whatever it is. It's but somehow I tracked this guy down and dared to reach out. And if he wasn't like the nicest guy and just happened to be living not far away, amazing. Yeah, he'll be a shout-out office supply, he'll be on uh podcast one day for sure. Yeah, we'll respect. Uh I mean, people I don't think can forget his artwork once they've seen it. Yeah, and uh we met up and he, like I said, he was very supportive. Uh we he he hooked me up with some some of his stickers. I've got I I bought his t-shirt, you know. I was uh a big fan. I still am a big fan. And so I remember meeting him up on on the street corner, and we had a nice chat, and that was I think the first uh and then there's a few other artists who are local that after that success, I decide, well, you know, I see these faces. It's um Trable is these big kind of what to me look like gorilla faces, yeah, gigantic painted gorilla faces around, and super cool because they had that kind of a toy vibe a little bit. They look yeah definitely like they the toy, and they've also got that kind of um not the negative toy. Not the negative, yeah. The good toy, toys. Isn't that right? And that's a dogma thing. I love that that that plays in so many ways, right? And especially in this culture. And since then, after meeting up with a few folks locally physically, then I would say I started uh talking to people more online and and that kind of thing through the whatever it is, social media. Thank you so much for joining us, dogma. Uh had a great talk. It was nice to kind of finally meet you and chit-chat. We've you know gone back and forth on Instagram and you know, kind of talk there, but it's nice to you know actually hear your voice. Um any any parting words for us? Ooh, parting words. I don't know. Slap slapped. Nice, I love it. I'm happy. Sketch rat stay sticky, slap, slap. Uh, thank you so much for joining us. Um we look forward to our next podcast with uh we don't know who it is yet, but uh we'll find out soon enough. And uh any last words from you, Ninja? You know, be happy. Guys, you guys are for sure, I would say, mentors in this community. And uh, you know, I appreciate what you're doing here. Can't wait to hear your uh podcast. That's great. Thanks. Thanks for joining us, everybody. See you next time.