Traci Brown: Body Language Expert Interview

Decoding Deception with Traci Brown

Can you spot a lie before the first word is even spoken? In this episode of the Behavioral Detective, Chris dives into "Street Science" with Traci Brown, the world’s #3 body language expert. 

From her time on the U.S. National Cycling Team to training with FBI and law enforcement professionals, Traci reveals how high-stakes pressure exposes hidden "tells". Learn why body language doesn't scream—it leaks—and how to monitor stress indicators like blink rates and cognitive overload to protect your bottom line. Whether you are investigating fraud or navigating a boardroom, discover why you must "pay attention or pay with pain". 

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Coming This Fall: Notice of Assignment, the first Cal Brink novella.

Disclaimer: This production is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute legal or professional advice. Names and details have been altered for privacy.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

In the pack, if you aren't moving up, you're moving back. I'm Chris, and this is the Behavioral Detective. Today, we're looking at the high-stakes world of elite performance and deception with Tracy Brown. She's the number three body language expert in the world, a former member of the U.S. national cycling team, and she's trained with the FBI and Green Berets. We're diving into why body language doesn't scream, it leaks. And how to spot the tells that save you from pain with pain. Let's get into these files. Tracy, I'm glad you're here. Thank you. Thanks for having me. This is great. Well, well, listen, for folks that don't know Tracy Brown, she's the number three body language expert in the world and a leader in training people to increase the detecting deception. I tried to say that like three or four times, but that's that's a tongue twister for me. It is. She's a frequent guest on TV interpreting body language, and I was just watching another one of her newsletters. She she puts videos on there, so I highly recommend becoming a part of her newsletter. But she interprets the body language of criminals and politicians. Sometimes those are the same things in today's world, right? She even helps lawyers um pick and persuade using body language as far as their picking their juries. And she's a former member of the U.S. National cycling team. Is that what I saw? That's true, 100%. Well, I've got to ask you about that because I used to ride a bike four and five thousand miles a year.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Okay, all right. So did I.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Yeah, I'll bet you did if you were on. I was just doing it to go from beer to beer and barbecue to barbecue to keep the weight off, but it was it was a lot of fun. But you you got your book, How to Detect Lies and Fraud and Identity Theft. And are you gonna tease the new book or are we gonna hold that secret right now?

SPEAKER_01 2:08

I have okay. So I'm gonna tease the book, and I'm really gonna tease how I'm gonna roll it out. So um, yeah, so so far the working title is um called Watch What They Say. And it's at best it'll come out summer 2027 because publishers are glacial in speed. And I have the coolest book promo to go along with it that anyone has ever done in the history, and I'm I am not kidding you, I am not exaggerating. It is the coolest book promo that anyone has ever done in the history of the world, and I am I am doing it, and I can't tell you what it is yet. Um, but that's why people want to sign up for my newsletter. And of course, there's gonna be cool stuff in my newsletter between now and when I can announce that.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Where where is that newsletter? So give give us the URL just for anybody that wants to.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Uh, you can go to body language trainer.com and um it's down at the at the uh bottom. You'll see it there in the link to sign up, or anytime I post anything on my TikToks or my um Facebook, the link is there.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

And we're gonna link to it in this article too. So I mean, so that's so that so that'll be great. And as I understand it, you're an executive producer of a TV series.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

I got one in the works in in Hollywood, yeah. And so um the working title of that is um we just changed it. Uh Truth be told.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Truth be told. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

So um, you know, Hollywood's a fickle place, so knock on wood, that uh something cool happens with it.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Yeah, well, that that that is a lot of fun. So let's circle back to this bicycling thing. You were a a pro at bicycling. Is that is that the deal? How did you get into that? How did you get out of it? What what did you experience?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Oh, well, uh that led me directly into being a body language expert. Um, because I learned quickly that the core of of cycling, like the elite level, is for little people. And I'm a big person. And uh, you know, five, five, nine, I don't think overly big, but when you race against elf-size people, um you you have to do some things differently to uh start to keep up and eventually win. And I was able to predict what was going to happen before before it actually happened, maybe before even people knew they were gonna make their move. And getting that half a second uh jump on what was about to happen was what allowed me to to eventually keep up and and uh and then and then win. And I needed and I needed it. Here's the thing, because I had jumped into the deep end of cycling without even knowing it. There was this guy, he kept showing up to the races. Uh in well, he was there in the training rides, you know, because he always trained with the men, but every now and then I'd jump in the races and race right alongside him. Uh his name was Lance, and uh he was really fast. Lance Armstrong.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Um he did have a few.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Um, he's no joke, really fast, but I had to be able to anticipate what was going to happen. So I because the problem isn't cycling. The problem it, and and I know that that you know this from doing a little bit of riding yourself, it's not like I don't know, if you're playing softball or soccer or whatever, you're having a bad day. And you know, it's not that you sit on the bench, who cares? You know, it's not that big of a big of a deal. When in cycling, if you don't, if you don't cut it, they leave you behind. And you've got to find your way home and you are exhausted anyway. And I'm talking wind, rain, hail, uh, heat, cold, all of it, snow. And uh, I was tired of that. And so I had to really focus in on what I did know and what I could use, and that was understanding body language at a really deep level. But the thing is, I didn't realize I was doing it until um I had already retired, and uh and I I was I was watching the Tour de France with a friend. I'm like, oh look, here's what's gonna happen. And she's like, Don't you understand you've been doing this body language thing for way longer than you ever thought? And I was like, oh, it hit me hard. So um uh, so I, you know, I've I've been reading people since I was 14 years old. And uh now, you know, I've I've gone into business with those skills, and I've been lucky enough to train right alongside our country's top law enforcement, uh, FBI police, uh, and and you know, military, um, Green Berets and Navy, and um, and I've and it's using those same skills to build your bottom line, save you time, money, and energy.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Well, we're not gonna make this whole interview about bicycling, but what was a tell? Like you're sitting by you're you're you're sitting in the draft, uh-huh, and and you and you what was a tell that you can share?

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Uh well, everyone, and this is the same in the boardroom, okay? It's the same at work, it's the same at home. Everyone has their own unique tells. And when you can start to understand everyone's uniqueness, um, then you can start to anticipate what goes on. So with some people, it would be a sudden change in the angle of their back, right? Um, other people other times um I would notice um, you know, when when it gets when it gets hot, it didn't work in the winter as much, but but when it gets hot and people start to sweat, if there's a line of salt uh just under the under the elastic band of their shorts, I knew I could attack and they wouldn't come with me because they were they were busted. So um little bitty things like like that, like when someone starts drinking too much, when um sometimes you can notice when people become sloppy and and they start um bouncing around a little bit, then um that's a tell as well that they're just like they're struggling, right? So um and of course I had to understand like the flow of the pack and what was about to happen next, because um, and and you know this too, and I think it's true in the rest of the world. If you're not moving up, you're moving back. That's just it. You can't you can't sit still in the pack and be like, all right, I'm good. As soon as you do that, you get dumped out the back. It just doesn't work. Like someone will gap you, and then and then you got to go around them, and then you're fighting to get back to the front. So always, if you're not moving up, you're moving back.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Yeah, you you described all of my bicycling tells. I was constantly bonking just kidding. So you it was a lot of fun. So, hey, you work with all kinds of investigations, you help financial and insurance groups spot lies and and therefore prevent fraud. Um, what are some of the easy ways that anyone can use these tools we're talking about to stop, you know, to find the lies and stop the losses? I mean, give us real practicality.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Okay, so if someone nods their head yes, this means yes. Okay. And if they shake their head no, this means no. And um, you know, a perfect example of this right now is um super timely. It's the the Clintons when because they just released all of their uh deposition to Congress or testimony. I don't know if the deposition or testimony, um, but uh you know, Bill Clinton got asked, did you uh have any sexual uh contact with anyone Jeffrey Epstein introduced you to? And he very clearly says, No. He nods his head, yes, right? So what happens is during deception, we go into cognitive overload and um the uh prefrontal cortex, like the adult, the like like the newest part of our brain, starts to take over functions that it shouldn't be doing, right? Because it's having to fabricate all this information and um and and and also the body doesn't want to keep a lie in, it's very expensive energetically. Yeah, like like the brain is a the brain's a big energy hog. And so if you ask it to deceive, right, it it's having to keep the lie in, it's having to create energy, uh like to sell the concept, it's having to add emotions to that. And so the system just melts down, it but it's in these little tiny ways, and so when you can when you can pick up on on that, that's when you can you can uh because it's not always about creating these gotcha moments, right? It's it's really about uh knowing more than is immediately obvious and navigating around that so that you can begin to um uh like get the right answer out of people, but more importantly, inform your decisions, right? Because you can just just do something different, like knowing what you know.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

So I'm gonna go off script a little bit here because I want to dig here if we can, if that's okay. Because what I found as an investigator is if I asked enough questions, people couldn't help but talk.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

And and what I didn't understand was how because because I'm a little bit like you, like you said you could tell, but you didn't know how or why. You you were reading these kinds of things, right? So when you're learning how to to identify this in a real time, how was it for you that you began to realize I'm picking this stuff up and I'm transferring it, I'm making it knowledge that I can now use. Do you see what I'm trying to say, or am I asking a I'm not asking a very good question because I didn't know why I was good at it, but then as I began to learn it by seeing the same patterns over again, I began to then put it into groups.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Well, when I was really able to put it into play uh a lot more than just from bike racing, was uh because I'm I'm trained as a hypnotist. I saw clients for eight years. And I was able to because here's the thing when people go to therapy, okay, for one, no one wants to go to therapy, no one wants to be there, okay. Uh just bottom line thing. And um, when they are there, there's a shame factor that's in play, okay. And it's it's the same factor like if you're interviewing someone in an investigation, right? There's a there's a shame factor at play. And so that can can lead people to stretch the truth or minimize or um what have you. Now, as a therapist, right, I need to know exactly what's going on so I can get them across the hump, right? Because they didn't come, they didn't come in to be the same. Like they can't, they, they they walked in one way and they pay me money so they could walk out another way. And uh, and if if they're not being straight with me, I have to know that so that I can so I can get them to point B. Like in and and it is amazing the amount of people that come in and don't want to tell you the whole thing. And I got really good at figuring out when they weren't telling me everything. And and and then I got really good at pulling the truth out of them. And so, so this whole thing started, right, just in the sake of of results. And um, and of course, now I do I do different, like bigger things uh with it, but um that that's that's when I started to realize I'm like, okay, wait, I'm I'm getting good at this.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah, it's it's it's uh it's it's fun to think back about how those progressions happened, and that's that's why I was just asking you because I think some of our readers or listeners are probably you're you're reading detective stories for a reason. Like you you kind of get into the trying to figure that out. So is body language the same for big and small lies?

SPEAKER_01 13:59

It is. Okay, tell me more. No, well, it yeah, it is, it's more subtle for the small ones. Okay, so so body language doesn't so for one, so first, first thing, let's get this really straight. Body language by itself doesn't indicate a whole lot. Okay. However, it's that intricate dance with the words and uh and with and with your tone and with your volume and with your pacing, that all of a sudden it can create a big more complete picture. So um body language, it doesn't scream at you, it leaks. And I I think that uh every now and then it'll it'll scream, but but but most mostly it leaks.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

And that sounds like a line for your TV show. I'm I'm telling you, that line jumps out at me.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Yeah, well, good, good. Call the people in Hollywood and tell them to light a fire under them. Man, I've I've never met people who have less urgency than people in Hollywood. Um, so uh point being is that you really have to raise your sensory acuity. That's how much you're paying attention to what goes on outside of you uh to see these things. Because most of us go um go through life like paying so much attention to ourselves, we just don't pay attention to what's going on outside us. And so it and here's the thing it's I understand how difficult it is to do just in daily life, because one of the things that um over the last let's say year, I've been uh really working on focusing on uh uh because it's very it's a very accurate tell of stress is someone's blink rate. And it's not something that I was necessarily originally trained to to watch. And and so I've been I've been trying to to focus on that more. And it is hard to um like take take that new piece and pay attention, right? And now that I'm I'm getting it, it's it's a lot easier, right? But even even though like you can know all the stuff in the world, you can memorize every book ever written on the topic, but to put it into play takes conscious effort. So um that's you know, in in my keynotes, because a lot of what I do is is uh speak to associations and and corporations to help them integrate this into their sales and negotiations and hiring and things like that. Um I like I make sure in my talk that people have an experience of using it, but it's up to you to keep using it because uh like there's so much uncertainty going on these days uh with everything around us. And whether it's economically, politically, or even online, like we are so we are more deceived than ever. More than ever. And um knowing the truth is key to making the best decisions that you can, right? And and and moving forward powerfully because every every big um like like leadership decision like has an impact and it like with dollars, time, time and and money. And and so it's super important to best inform that decision uh immediately right away so that um you're you're working with all the information that you have.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Yeah. All right. Great, great words there. And by the way, now I'm really self-conscious about my blinking.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

So like the thing about blinks, here's the thing about blinks there's there's two things that you can't manually control. Uh, one is your blink rate, and the other is your forehead. And so that when you when you can start to watch those two uh uh body parts, I was gonna call them like items, but when you can watch those two things, you're gonna get a really accurate view of someone's emotional state and what they're comfortable with and what they're not. Like because here's the thing, uh Chris, is that signs of deception are there's no like sign of deception. It's what you're looking for is a sign of stress. And stress is is for for people who are not uh like neurologically uh like like a psychopath or something like that, uh then that's gonna be a really accurate read on what's going on for someone.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

So your best people to interview for body language are bald people, then because we have lots of forehead in your own.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Yeah, for sure. But even if you don't, I mean, uh yeah, the worst ones are the bangs. I'm like, get rid of the bangs. Or um Botox is another one that's uh that'll um that can throw a throw a wrench in in uh that but even even so like here's the thing. I'm not having a thing against Botox. I like it, I think it's great. I um I think it can lead to a really good look. So I'm not getting down on people or judging or anything. Um, and but here's the thing there's always an area outside the affected area that will move. So so don't think like if you if you find someone whose eyebrows are cemented into place, there's other tells um like head to toe, but definitely in the forehead too, you can still see stuff.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Fantastic. So, how do we start to use this info at work and get real answers that we now we need out of customers and co-workers?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Okay, so to get answers, here's the key. Oh, and and I want you to consider this, and I know you you know this, but my uh mentor in the FBI, uh he's an FBI trainer, retired now. He goes, Look, it's all about information recovery. So all you gotta do is keep people talking, just keep them talking. And uh, and you can do like little bitty things, just elicitation things, and just say, really? Or no way, right? Like little things like that will keep people talking. You can even tell them information that you know is empirically wrong because people want to help and they want to uh they they want to correct you, right? So one of the ones that I've heard was back in um in Vietnam. Okay, so the US Navy's in Vietnam and the soldiers get a little bit of leave and they go to the bar, and you know, spies are everywhere, they're everywhere, and it you know, they they don't wear uh fedoras and in trench coats, you know, they they don't uh and all they gotta do is keep them talking. And they and they said something like, Oh, I heard the propellers on on uh your boat was uh you know 10 feet wide or and and then and and they're like you know, they're a little drunk. They're like, No, no, they're 15, right? So so those are those that's like just a little bit of how you can keep people talking.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Yeah, I I when when I would interview people, or especially when I was skip tracing, my challenge was to get my answer without asking them the question. Like ask all the peripheral questions, but they will volunteer the information.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Oh yeah, yeah, they want to help. Skip tracing, tell me about that.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Well, you know, when I was an investigator in in Maryland, I I worked Maryland, DC, and Virginia, I was a process server as well. And um I was 22, 23 the first time I did it, and it turned out pretty good at it, and they kept sending me out because because I I could talk to people and I could be whoever that person needed me to be.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Um, you know, I even talk about it in one of my articles that if you need me to be a little rough and tumble and cuss, I could do that. If you needed me to be very sweet, you know, friend of your son who I was trying to find, I could do that.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Um just and if you just talk to him long enough and ask them enough peripheral questions, they'll generally give you the answer that you came for.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Yeah. Behavioral flexibility, that is key.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Well, I I love that term. We you know, we called it pretext, uh-huh, but my soul called it lying. I was always in inner conflict about all of this. That makes any sense. That's after nine years, I'd had enough of it. But I was good at it, which is kind of a scary thing.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

It is. I gotta watch out for you.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Well, we're gonna we're gonna talk more about um a couple questions I had for you, but tell me about the Brunswick bowling pen.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Oh, the my my bowling pin behind me. Okay, so I um I I'm uh grew up in a family of bowlers, we're all bowlers, and my uncle is the best one out of all of us. And so he has he's in Arkansas and he has a um an attic that's kind of like uh it's like a museum. All the toys from the 1950s growing up are were there, and so when me and my brother were little, we go up there and right, and we get the little, you know, the marionettes and whatever that they had. And we had this bowling pin up there, and I it just blew my mind. It blew my mind. Like, how could you get a bowling pen? Like, you know, because I because I'm little, I'm like, because then you know you wouldn't be able to set all the pins just right because you'd be down a pin, you know, and like I just it just blew my mind, and so I've always wanted a bowling pin, I've always wanted one, and just after the pandemic, I got asked to speak at the bowling proprietors association, and I gave my talk, it went great. And right before I was done, I was like, look, y'all, and I told them the story, and I said, I really want a bowling pen. I will buy it. Can I buy a bowling pen from someone in here? And the bowling lanes, right over here by me, Chippers Lanes in Broomfield, Colorado. And mind you, we were in Louisville, Kentucky, because you know, conferences are everywhere. Uh, the girl from there came up and she said, We would love to host you for a night of bowling on us, and we will give you a pen. And that, and that is my pen, and I'm so proud of it. And I and I just love it.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Well, so you you lead a pretty cool life. You you you get to go talk to people and train with people about something you're impassioned about, right? And so what I've seen from your newsletters, that's what you're sharing with people. Yeah. And whether they ever use it or not, you're sharing a really useful skill and it's good entertainment.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Well, it is. People call my newsletters juicy, and so I'm always talking about someone in the news who's like showing these signs and they're probably being deceptive. And you know, the more and more video that we have out um these days, the more there is to comment on. So I do that once a month, and um, and people can join. And I know you're gonna put the link in the uh in your comments or in the article. Um, and but if if if you're hungrier than that, um every every day I post on Facebook or TikTok, and um I'm getting a huge following going. I've only been posting every day since about let's call the first of let's call it the first of December on Facebook. I've been doing it kind of randomly on TikTok, like and gaining a little bit. I got okay, so let's back up. I got kicked off TikTok for my uh analysis of Harry and Megan. Um and I have I I believe that that they have someone on the inside at TikTok who pulled everything uh off. And I'll tell you, it was it was uh February 2nd, 2024, I believe was the date whenever his book came out. Okay, because I was man, I was racking up the views, like 600,000, 700,000. Uh and I didn't say, hey, look, he's lying, so you should hate him. I was like, hey, here's an example of someone who's holding back information, someone who's not being 100% truthful, all you know, um I think justifiable, right? Uh, but Harry and Megan did not like it. And the reason I know that they have someone on the inside of TikTok is because on that day, uh my friend who was kind of helping me craft all of this, like, you know, just strategy-wise, she, I'm like, look, my account's gone. It's not coming back. And and she got on there, and you could not find anything about Harry or Megan on TikTok at all on that date. So they had it, they had everything they they scrubbed uh TikTok. So I was like, why am I putting all this effort into this hoping to build something here if it's all gonna be just taken away? Uh and so I just quit for a year, and then I kind of got back doing it. I was like, yeah, why not? I have a little extra time. Anyway, it's starting to blow up. Um, but I post the same thing on Facebook, and that's the one that's really going.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

So since um so you got the kids and the old people, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

So so I so and Facebook for real, it is old people, like the 65 plus crowd loves me. You know, because I can see all the stats, but since um since December, and we're talking today, is what March 5th or so. Um since December, I've gained, I'll give you the latest number, um 66,000 followers and four million views. Um, hang on, let me get you the number here.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

And this is on TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

This is on Facebook, 4.7 million views in the last month. So it's going somewhere. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Well, I'll have to I'll have to look you up. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, it's a it's a personal goal to die without ever being on TikTok, but that's just well, I had that goal too, but then I was like, maybe I could make some money.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

I get it.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

I get it.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Um, but I'll tell you, um, the Chinese, uh, I don't think they're that good at math because uh I I went viral the last couple of days talking about the McDonald's CEO, uh-huh and you know, because he ate that burger. Yeah. And so I'm like, well, why how does this actually come together? Like, why are we feeling this big mismatch? And so I did an analysis, and so that's almost 700,000 views right now. And they and I started out, I don't know if I'm throwing around too many numbers. I started out at 44,000 followers. They told me I got almost 20,000 followers from this one video, and my follower number is only up to 50,000. So something's something's like yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Well, I love numbers, but they don't always match.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

So that's uh it's the trends I look for, but that's well, they definitely don't match on TikTok.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

So well, I mean, so in in in in my life, you know, I well I never stopped being an investigator. I just did it differently.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

I became a photographer because I learned how to take pictures of people doing things they shouldn't be doing.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

And then that led into my real estate life, which I've had for the last 26 years. But I've still always investigated the numbers, profitability, the all these different kinds of things.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Well, start investing some uh in investigating on TikTok. That's that would help me out.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Well, take t TikTok, I've never I've never quite like figured out there. But so what closing thoughts do you have for us today? Because I think everybody should be on the newsletter, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Sign up for the newsletter.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Yeah, and that's um uh body language trainer.com.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Body language trainer.com. You gotta scroll down, it's at the bottom, or just find me on on Facebook and or TikTok, and it'll be there too.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Okay. Um what closing thoughts would you have for uh for us? Are for for the people that read you know the process server chronicles? They're they're probably interested in stories, they're probably interested in I do a little thing on there about behavioral detective, you know, like the tells and that kind of thing. What is it you would leave with the with the readers?

SPEAKER_01 29:57

I I gotta tell you, it's just one thing. It's pay attention or pay with pain. That is it. And that is the bottom line. Pay your attention bill. You will get a lot further in whatever area of life that you if you want, whether it's you know, the real estate you're talking about or investigating or or or what have you. The information is there. The question is, are you gonna are you gonna pay attention? Are you gonna use it?

SPEAKER_00 30:22

So, so you know, I you you ought to just become a writer or a screenwriter or something. You've you've got pay with pain or pay attention or pay with pain. I love that. And then body language doesn't scream at leaks. Yeah. Those are Mickey Spillane type lines. Great.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

That's good. Well, I'll tell you what, on my um, when people sign up for my newsletter, you get all my videos because I do have some Hollywood thriller uh level videos that I that I've done, and they're they're keynote promos. Uh so I sneak that in there, but there's a plot in the last one that I did, I got two of them, and I'll I'll do a third uh shortly. The uh and and I do have a writer in Hollywood who helps me out. She um she's amazing. And uh like she was a VP at HBO, she's written for the Hallmark channel. I mean, she's she's really something. When you sign up for my newsletter, you'll get you'll get the details on why I'm doing another one. But I got a it's a big cliffhanger, and if you haven't seen it, you're gonna you're gonna be like, oh, when are we gonna get the next one?

SPEAKER_00 31:25

All right. Well that that that's fantastic. Tracy, I really want to thank you for being here today.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Hey, thanks for having me. This is super nice.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

The information is always there. The only question is whether you're paying attention. You can find more of Tracy's juicy insights at her Watch What They Say project at body language trainer.com. Or find her on Facebook. That thing is exploding. As for us, the Protest Server Chronicles. Those truish stories I tell about my past, those drop on Sundays, and CalBrink case files drop on Wednesdays, and that's where I let my imagination run wild. Keep your eyes open and your head on a swivel. I'm Chris. Thanks for listening to The Behavioral Detective.