Whole-Life Worship with Cheryl Marshall

How to Fight Personal Sin, Part 1

• Cheryl Marshall • Season 1 • Episode 7

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 23:02

Description

Cheryl Marshall welcomes Rush Witt, lead pastor, biblical counselor, and author, to discuss how believers can effectively recognize, understand, and fight personal sin, especially those persistent, “die-hard” sins. With practical wisdom and gospel hope, Rush Witt unpacks biblical definitions, shares his own journey, and highlights the spiritual resources God provides to help us persevere in the lifelong battle with sin.

Key Topics Covered

  • Defining Sin & “Die Hard Sins” 
  • Jesus’s Compassionate Ministry to Sinners
  • Sin as a Worship Disorder 
  • Four Gospel-Centered Gifts for Battling Sin 
  • The Challenge of Long-Term Struggles & “Contented Discontent” 

Takeaways

  1. Sin is More Than Behavior:
    Sin runs deeper than outward actions; it involves desires, attitudes, and even our patterns of worship.
  2. Gospel Hope in the Battle:
    God gives believers four unchanging gifts: His presence, our dependence, the gospel message, and ongoing vigilance, to encourage and equip us in fighting sin.
  3. Perseverance, Not Perfection:
    The fight against personal sin is a lifelong journey. We’re called to continual repentance, finding hope in God’s faithfulness and the promise of future redemption.

Resources Mentioned

Next Steps

Looking to apply what you heard in this episode? Here are some practical next steps inspired by the conversation between Cheryl Marshall and Rush Witt:

  1. Reflect on Your Understanding of Sin
    Take some time to consider how you’ve defined sin in your own life. Ask yourself: Do I view sin as more than just outward actions? How might my desires and attitudes need to change? Refer back to Rush Witt's explanation at 07:44.
  2. Read Matthew 9:35-36
    Meditate on how Jesus approaches sinners with compassion, as highlighted by Rush Witt at 06:00, and consider how this impacts your own struggles.
  3. Identify Your Die Hard Sins
    Following the episode, make a list of persistent struggles in your life, those “die hard” sins that seem difficult to overcome (08:19). Pray for insight and honesty as you write.
  4. Remember God’s Hope-Filled Gifts
    Review and pray through the four “hope-filled gifts” discussed by Rush Witt at 16:27:
    • God’s presence remains with you.
    • Your dependence on Him continues.
    • The gospel is your central weapon.
    • Vigilance can endure because of God’s grace.
  5. Practice Contented Discontent with Sin
    Embrace both a determination not to settle for sin and a patient trust in God’s slow but certain work in your life, echoing Rush Witt at 20:01.
  6. Look Forward to Part 2
    Commitment: Listen next week for further practical help on fighting personal sin.

Connect & Take the Next Step

  • Subscribe: Don’t miss Part 2 of this crucial conversation. Subscribe to Whole Life Worship.
  • Share & Review: If you found this episode helpful, rate and share it with a friend.
  • Reflect: Consider how you experience both struggle and hope in your own fight against sin. Journal or pray through the “four gifts” discussed.
  • Visit: Learn more about Rush Witt and his resources at mynameisrush.com.
  • Join the Conversation: Connect with Cheryl Marshall and take the next step in pursuing a life wholly devoted to God, without compromise, without comparison, in every circumstance.

Additional Ways to Connect

Order: When Words Matter Most

Follow Cheryl Marshall:

Instagram, Facebook, Substack, YouTube

Join: Cheryl’s Newsletter

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to Whole Life Worship. This is Cheryl Marshall, and I'm so glad you're with us today as we pursue lives wholly devoted to God, without compromise, without comparison, in every circumstance. This is Whole Life Worship. Today we are having a conversation about how to fight personal sin. We've discussed in past episodes how our devotion to God can be divided. If you haven't listened to episode two, I encourage you to give it a listen. That episode introduces three dividers of our devotion to God. And today's and next week's episode focus on one of those dividers, and that is sin. So we're going to learn how to fight against it. This is the first of two parts, and so you'll want to be sure to join us again next week. Our special guest for both of these episodes is Rush Witt. He's a graduate of Southeastern Seminary, and he serves as the lead pastor of Paramount Church in Bexley, Ohio, and he's also a certified biblical counselor. Rush is the author of a few books. The first is I Want to Escape. The second is Die Hard Sins: How to Fight Wisely Against Destructive Daily Habits, which we are discussing today, and the link is in the show notes. And he's also the co-author of his upcoming book, Shepherding Time, which will be coming out in September 2026 from New Growth Press. Rush and his wife Catherine have three daughters and two sons. And so, Rush, thank you so much for being with us to talk about sin.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks, Cheryl. You know, as funny as it probably sounds, I really enjoy having these conversations because they've been really helpful to me. So I appreciate you asking me to have this conversation with you about Die Hard Sins.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I can tell from your book that you have given a lot of thought to it. And I am excited that our listeners today get to benefit from your study and your prayers and your thinking and your writing on this. But before we get into Die Hard Sins, I would actually like you to share with our listeners a little bit about your two other books. Can you share with us about those?

SPEAKER_01

Sure. The uh one that you mentioned called I Want to Escape is a book that was written actually during the pandemic. And it came about for me just because, like all of us, we were dealing in the pandemic with so many feelings of wanting to escape things. Because as pressure rises, I've noticed in my heart, and everybody I've ever known has this little voice inside that starts talking about how to get out of the problem. And while there certainly are, you know, problems that we should try to get out of, dangerous problems, of course, we should move away from them. There are a lot of things that we go through that we just want to escape because they're hard, or maybe they're inconvenient or dark, and sometimes that leads us to, you know, really even darker thoughts of the worst kind of escape. And so that time was a good opportunity just to reflect on what do we do when we feel that we want to escape, when life is overwhelming. So that's what that book is about. And then you mentioned another book, which I'm excited about coming up, that I wrote with a close friend who's also a pastor named Joe Keller. And that's a book for pastors about managing our time because people in ministry know it's really difficult to do that because there's so many different, you know, dynamics. And so we're looking forward to that book being helpful. It's really helpful to us to work through it together. So we're looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_00

I imagine there are principles in that book that can be helpful to people who aren't pastors as well.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Good listeners, make sure you make a note of those and check them out. So, Rush, as we get to know you a little bit more, can you share with us how you came to know the Lord?

SPEAKER_01

I came to Christ when I was 18. And so I grew up in a family. We went to church, we were actively involved. I was confirmed in a Methodist church when I was 13. But all those years that I was involved in church and I was involved in the fellowship of Christian athletes in high school, I was Cheryl, I was the vice president of our chapter of FCA in high school, and I was not a Christian. And so it wasn't actually until I went to a Christian basketball camp that was put on by a professional player in his family, a guy named Mark Price, that I had looked up to my entire life. I didn't know he was a Christian. And so I had a chance to go to the basketball camp, and that's really where I remember hearing the gospel for the first time. And so that was how I came to faith in Christ was through hearing the gospel every day at the camp and then and then came to Christ at home in the bathroom of all places. I didn't really know where else to go, I guess. And so that's how I became a Christian.

SPEAKER_00

Well, the Lord can use anything, anywhere, right? That's true.

SPEAKER_01

That's true.

SPEAKER_00

Well, like I mentioned before, I do appreciate the thought and the care and the concern that you've put into this particular book about diehard sins. And it's evident from reading it that you have walked with the Lord, and like all of us, you have dealt with diehard sins. And in the introduction, you begin by making observations about Jesus' ministry to sinners. And I appreciated so much you starting there. But can you explain to us what you observed about Christ's ministry and why you chose to open the book there?

SPEAKER_01

So, yes, Cheryl, a second ago you said I've had some good opportunity to think about these kinds of issues, and that's really true. And actually, I keep thinking about them, and even the passage that begins the book, Matthew 9, 35 and 36, keeps staying with me. And really, it's a picture of how Jesus handled his personal ministry on earth as he entered our world, he came to understand our need, and he brought us really himself and his answers. And that's what we find in Matthew 9, because Jesus is going through all the cities and villages, and he's teaching in all the synagogues, and he's looking at people, and he he sees that they are distressed and they are like sheep without a shepherd. And so he has done for us what we ultimately need him to do, and he has done for us what in a way we can do, which is to enter into these difficult places and with his wisdom understand the true need of the moment in our hearts. You know, as it has to do with these difficult troubles that we keep facing and they just don't seem to go away. And then to be able to engage with those with Christ and with the answers that he's brought to us in the gospel and in all of his wisdom in his word. So it's a good place to start in what Jesus does for us because that's our ultimate need. That's my ultimate need. And so that's why the book begins there.

SPEAKER_00

Well, in important discussions such as this, we might not all be on the same page with these terms of sin and die hard sins. And so just so that we're all thinking in the same direction, can you describe for us or explain to us biblically what is sin? And then what do you mean specifically by diehard sins?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's a good question. That's I think that's a pretty big question because there are so many things that we could say about something like sin. It's such a small word, but there's so much packed inside of it, and there are so many different kinds of, I think, you know, angles to how the Bible shows the effects of sin as a global problem in the world, a curse on the world as a result of the fall. But as we think about diehard sins in the book, I think it's most helpful to think about kind of three of those angles or dynamics. One is that, of course, we know that sin is a lawless kind of act, it's it's a disobedience to God's law, it's a transgression of his law. The Westminster Shorter Catechism says in in some kind of older language, but it's a want of conformity. So it's it's a it's not conforming to the plan that God has laid out for us. And then second, sin is also not just something that we do as an act, but it also exists within us because the Bible talks about sin being a rebellious kind of attitude, a kind of cosmic treason against the lawgiver in our heart. Many listeners may know who RC Sprohl was, well-known pastor and faithful theologian. That's the way he talked about sin, at least in one way. And these diehard sins are all those things, an act, an attitude, an attribute, but also small, but they just wreak so much havoc. And we we know that once we get into the, you know, the the get into contact with the the kind of things that we struggle with like that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you know, as you have been describing sin, it made me wonder this going back to an earlier question about you coming to know the Lord. How did your understanding of sin affect your true conversion at age 18? Because, you know, you had this spirituality of sorts before that, but then something changed in your walk with God and your relationship to Him at that age. Did your understanding of sin change at all or affect that?

SPEAKER_01

You know, I think that in the early years of my life in church, I don't remember hearing a lot about sin. I don't remember hearing a lot about the gospel, at least not in a real detailed way. And so when I was at this camp, that's why I think of that as one of the first times that I ever really heard the gospel laid out for me, the good news of what Jesus had done for me, as well as what the law of God and his word tells me about my sin. And so as I came to better understand that, it was instrumental in understanding my need for Christ. Now, at the same time, Cheryl, I'm I've I think you would say the same thing. I think all of us would that when we came to Christ, we knew a small bit of what we know now. You know, as we keep growing, we we look back and we say, wow, I really did not understand very much about sin. I understand more now. And so looking back, I can see little glimmers of what I've come to know so much better as I've, you know, just had time to struggle in the Christian life, and God's been gracious with me like He is all of us. So it definitely was a it was a difference. It was an instrumental change just because I had people at the camp who were really helping me understand what the Bible says. And I I just I just don't remember a lot of that prior to that camp.

SPEAKER_00

And I think you make a good point that the longer we walk with the Lord, the more we see our sin, the more sensitive we become to it. And Lord willing, the more we hate it and the more we want to run away from it. So again, this is this is so helpful with what you've provided in the book for that. If you want to grow as a whole life worshiper, my new book, All of Me, Pursuing a Life Fully Devoted to God, was written especially for you. It's available through major booksellers and the link in the show notes. Near the beginning of the book, you talk about you will you make a connection between sin and disordered worship. And this whole podcast, of course, is titled Whole Life Worship. It's all about how to pursue a life wholly devoted to God, how to become whole life worshipers. So you write, sin is not only an obedience problem, but a worship disorder too. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01

I think one of the things that has really helped me has been having other people in my life, Christian influences, friends, pastors, counselors specifically, who helped me to see that sin is not just something I do, it is something that I do because of what I want. And that I can never separate those two things. That my heart is ruled by certain things. Sometimes they are good things, sometimes they are bad things, and sometimes my heart is ruled by uh a ruling desire even for something good. It's in a way, you know, how a desire for something good can become something bad when it becomes ultimate, you know. So I think of things like in my life as a parent, I want my kids to be obedient. I'll manipulate them to get them to obey me. Or, you know, I might not be totally honest with a person because I want their respect so bad. So that just is, you know, some of that reminder to me that sin isn't just something I'm doing. It's actually, it has everything to do with the desires inside of my heart, which which is exactly what you just said. You know, that's that's what it means to worship, is to have a desire, to desire God and the things that He loves. So that's been a really helpful development for me as a Christian, and I think helped me get a little better grasp on these kinds of things.

SPEAKER_00

Well, your answer really reveals how sin runs so deep in us. And with sin running deep in us, it can sometimes be very overwhelming as we face it. When we see it, we want to deal with it, but we can become discouraged, especially given how strong a hold it can have on us. But you encourage your readers not to despair, you point them to what you call the hope-filled gifts of God. And I loved that when I saw that in your book. So, what are those four gifts and how do they help us battle personal sin?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I like this question. I like this question because what you're asking is exactly what helps me get at and remember what the gospel really is. So I've been talking a little bit about things that have helped me develop and grow as a Christian. And I am, I don't know if you're like this, Cheryl. I'm I am late to most games. Like I'm slow to catch on. I feel like my friends are way ahead of me and they kind of feed back to me important things. One of those things has been what I've come to know as the law-gospel distinction, and that is simply that the gospel is an announcement of good news without any mixture of bad news whatsoever, and that the law of God, you know, he's revealed his character, his expectations, that the law of God, be though it's good, brings someone like me bad news. Well, what that means is I need the gospel to remind me that God loves me in spite of me, and God is committed to me, even in the midst of these ongoing troubles. Sometimes I could, you know, I could fall into despair if I really focused in on I keep struggling, this problem doesn't go away, I keep dishonoring God with my anxieties, those kinds of things. But what the gospel does is because it announces to me that Jesus has done everything that's needed for me to be saved and loved, favored, you know, to have to know God's love, that He keeps giving me these good gifts. And they stay in place, and they're actually the thing, the things that that accompany me in the midst of all these challenges. So the four gifts that are detailed at this part of the book that you're referring to are number one, God's presence. That even in the midst of ongoing struggles, because of God's grace, his presence always remains. And it is the most important thing that he is committed to stay with me, even as I continue to struggle, because of his love. That's a great truth. And then second, that my dependence on him remains. There's never a day where we don't have ultimate dependence on him to help us, and so God is using, even in a strange way, I think, a mysterious way, God is using these diehard sin struggles to help keep my eyes on him, keep keep me aware of my dependence. Third, which I got I alluded to a second ago, the gospel really remains as the central weapon of spiritual warfare. When I feel mastered by these desires, the gospel keeps reminding me that God's grace is enough, that he is sufficient for all of this. And then, of course, all of this leads to hopefully in our lives, that our vigilance against sin, our fight against sin remains. We have reason to keep fighting. Even we feel like, man, I feel like I'm not getting a lot of progress. We can keep looking to Christ, knowing that we're in a process of change and he's faithfully working, working in us. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00

Totally does. And as I listen to you and as I think about those, I realize number four, the vigilance, is only a result of the first three. You could not have us persevering and fighting against sin without those other things that the Lord has provided. It's a reminder that we can do nothing apart from Him. We can't even battle against our sin without Him. So most of us know that the experience of battling sin can stretch out for a long time. Not only can it be deep, it can also be long. So we may have victory and then defeat, then victory again, and maybe defeat again, and this can happen sometimes over and over. So in the midst of a long battle, you say we need to have, and I found this so interesting, a contented discontent with sin. What exactly do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01

So this is really a part of the book that was particularly helpful for me to work through because as I was thinking about my own struggles with diehard sins, and then even, you know, some of those of people around me, either that I was walking with or trying to encourage and help or counsel, one of the things that I came to realize better in my own life is that the process of change for me is simply slow. I would love for it to be pastor, but in God's wisdom, He has chosen for me to be somewhat of a slow mover. Now, what that means is as I should be discontent with the sin struggles that I have. I should not ever let I I don't want them to settle in. I don't want to make excuses for them, I don't want to say it's okay, it's just a weakness, it's just something I deal with and it and and it won't go away. I I don't want to say that. At the same time, though, being discontent, there is a sense in which I have to have some recognition or understanding or acceptance that there are things in my life that are just gonna be long-term struggles. I I don't think I am ever going to completely eradicate in this life my tendency to feel anxious when things aren't going the way I want them to go. I think that that is just something I'm going to have to keep working and fighting against until one day Jesus returns or I go to be with him and sin is done away with in the end. And so that means I need to have a kind of discontentment with my sin struggles, but also a kind of settled contentment with the long game that I'm gonna have to play with God's help. I'm gonna need to keep working at this, and so I think that that is a truth that often we miss. It's one that I have missed for a long time, and I can certainly miss it again because sometimes I think that if I do the Christian life right, everything should be pretty easy. I'm not gonna have a lot of temptations and struggles. And I mean, I just when I look at the Bible, I just don't see that in in people's lives. I don't see it in my in my own life, you know?

SPEAKER_00

I think that's a very helpful perspective. I'm thinking of friends and family members who've I've had these discussions with who see their sin and they're discouraged by it. But like you were mentioning a moment ago, it almost makes you long for heaven all the more. Like someday this is going to be behind me. It doesn't mean that I'm just gonna ignore it. I'm going to confess and deal with it and repent, but it's still there. This is this is who we are as human beings, but just knowing one day we're gonna be completely redeemed and this sin is all gonna be behind us. I'm thinking of a friend in particular who just longs for the day that her sin will be behind her, and that has often encouraged me to look forward to heaven as well and not to be so focused on this world. Well, that concludes part one of our discussion with Rush Wit about how to fight personal sin. Please join us next week for part two, and in the meantime, you can hear Rush on his podcast called The Most Interesting Person in the World, and you can connect with him at his website, my nameisrush.com. Thank you for listening to this episode. I invite you to please review, subscribe, and share, and keep pursuing a life wholly devoted to God without compromise, without comparison in every circumstance. This is Whole Life Worship.