Would I Still Obey If No One Ever Knew

Would I Still Obey If Nobody Ever Knew?

What does it really mean to let your light shine without living for the approval of other people?

In this episode of Wine Into Water, we wrestle with two teachings of Jesus that seem, at first glance, to contradict one another. In one passage, He tells us to let our light shine before others so they may see our good works and glorify God. Just a few verses later, He warns us not to practice our righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. So which is it?

Together, we explore the difference between living a life that points people toward God and living a life that seeks attention for ourselves. We talk about how easy it is to confuse recognition with significance, especially in a world built on achievement, promotions, awards, followers, and external validation. What happens when nobody notices your faithfulness? And how do we keep obeying when the applause never comes?

Jen reflects on the challenge of integrating faith into secular leadership, sharing stories from her corporate career about learning to lead with love in environments where openly expressing faith often felt unwelcome. Lydia explores the shifting opinions of people throughout Scripture—from Paul and the shipwreck to Jesus entering Jerusalem on Palm Sunday—and reminds us why building our identity on the approval of others will always leave us chasing a moving target.

As the conversation unfolds, a deeper truth begins to emerge. Perhaps Jesus wasn't giving two competing commands at all. Perhaps He was inviting us into a different way of living—one where our motivation is always God's approval, but the overflow naturally becomes visible to the people around us. A life transformed by Christ can't help but shine, not because it's trying to be noticed, but because His presence changes every room we enter.

Together, we also wrestle with fear, perfectionism, toxic workplaces, surrender, and the exhausting pressure of believing everything depends on us. We reflect on what it looks like to carry the presence of Christ into ordinary conversations, difficult leadership moments, and seasons where obedience feels lonely or misunderstood.

This episode is for anyone who has ever wondered whether their quiet faithfulness matters, struggled with people-pleasing, or felt torn between wanting to honor God and wanting to be seen by others. It's a reminder that the opinions of people will always shift, but God's never do.

Because maybe the brightest light isn't found in being noticed.

Maybe it's found in faithfully living for an audience of One.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Sometimes we pray for the miracles. We wait for the breakthrough, the healing, the answered prayer. And when it doesn't come, when life feels ordinary, heavy, or quiet, we wonder if something is wrong. We read about water turning into wine, but most of us are living in seasons where it feels like the opposite, where the celebration fades and the glass feels empty. Where faith isn't dramatic, it's dishes in the sink, laundry that never ends, prayers whispered into the silence. But what if the miracle was never the point? What if what we're really longing for isn't the wine, but the living water? The presence of Jesus in the middle of the Monday. The abundance that doesn't depend on circumstances. This is a podcast for seasons that feel unmiraculous. For the questions we carry quietly. For the faith that keeps showing up, even when nothing changes. Welcome to Wine in to Water. I'm your co-host, Jen Asklin. And I'm your other co-host, Lydia Rosencreve. We're two women who have been asking questions, nobody seems to be answering. Questions about faith and seasons when life can feel unmiraculous.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

And we kept having these conversations, just the two of us, and we realized we can't be the only ones who are asking these questions.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

So we decided to invite you into the conversation. We're so glad you're here. And the heart of it is really looking at two verses in Matthew that are back to back. The first is in Matthew 14, where he calls us the light of the world and asks us to let our light shine before others. And then in like the next chapter, tells us not to practice our righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. And so today we're going to wrestle with what those two things are. And I think it's no coincidence that they're in the same book, in two chapters, sitting by each other, because my sense is it is very easy to either fall into not being the light of the world and showing good deeds that might draw others closer to Christ. And the other side being doing things that we think will get us seen in the name of Christ.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

So anybody who thinks that the Christian life is easy, I think you and I have certainly disproved that with the questions that we have addressed, because this one is a, I mean, this one really is a hard one because it feels like when you first read it, it feels like Jesus is talking out of both sides of his mouth. And we know that that does not happen with Jesus, right? Um so we know that that's not what's happening. It just seems like that's what's happening, that's what's happening. And I kind of wonder if I were sitting in the audience, and I don't know if these were in the exact same sermon that Jesus was um doing. I know they're in Matthew pretty close together, but it may not have been that he taught them at the same time, right? But um, if I were a follower and so I'm hearing this one thing, and then I'm hearing this other thing, you know, I might be thinking, okay, um, let's see, last week he said, Let my light shine and make sure that people see my good deeds so that they'll praise God for it. And then today he's saying, make sure that you do everything in secret, and then the father will see it and reward you. Um and so I wonder if, you know, his first century followers, if they grappled with it or if there was context um in that culture that made that made it a little bit different, right? You know, sometimes I think we don't we read everything through our lens of the 21st century America that we live in, and the first century Jewish world was very different. So um anyway, got off a little uh there, so let me go back, get back on track. Um the the latter one on doing things in secret seems more um like I can that one seems humble and righteous and okay, so you know, I just go around like sprinkling good deeds all over the place and nobody sees, and God's gonna see and he's gonna reward me. But the truth is that that is a really hard thing to keep up on a daily basis, right? That it sounds nice, it sounds fun, um until you start putting into practice every single day and nobody notices what you're doing, nobody compliments you, nobody praises you, nobody thanks you, then it's so easy to fall into the trap of nobody appreciates me, um, nothing I do actually matters. I don't know. Where do you land on that, Jen?

SPEAKER_01 6:10

I what was coming up for me is just how different that is than the systems of this world. Like I love a gold star more than anyone. Um and so, like I I have for sure, over the course of my life, made an idol out of achievement. It is my greatest personality flaw, probably. Um, and so this seems to run very counter to that, to say keep doing great work. Like you need you need to work as if you are working for the Lord, which on our best days, that's what we should all be doing. We don't live a lot of those days, but like that's the goal, right? And so do great work, but don't do it to be seen by other people when those people are the ones who dole out awards and raises and promotions and right, like name, name your achievement variant, right? Um, and so it just is very counter to the way that the world works, that you would go do these things and not seek the praise of men. Um which, as I say that out loud, right? I think part of it is when you fear God and recognize him for who he is, it then makes you not afraid of men because you realize how small they are in comparison to like the God of the universe.

unknown 8:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

And so maybe some of this is well, shoot, if I'm doing things to be seen by men, maybe inherently I'm not doing them to be seen by God. And maybe that says something about the posture of my heart in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Oh my gosh, so much rich stuff there, Jen. Um I I do, you know, it's it's interesting. There's a couple of things that can there's actually like three or four things that come out of that for me. Um the first is, you know, in Philippians, Paul is writing from prison. He's at the end of his ministry. It's actually his happiest book, right? You know, which I guess is does that has a lot to teach in itself, but that's a whole nother thing. Um but he basically says that there are these people out there preaching the gospel and they're doing it for gain, I think. And and um but it but he says, what does it matter? Right. And so what I take from that is, you know, even if our heart posture is wrong, God can still use what we do if he chooses to, right? So um, like I think I often get so caught up in it all depends on me. And it's like, oh my gosh, I did this really, I did this good thing, but I did it for the wrong reason. You know what? God can still use it. So just relax, like repent and relax, Lydia, right? He can still use it. So just like Paul was saying, you know what? It doesn't matter. The gospel got preached. Who cares what the heart posture was of the person who did it, if the gospel is being preached, right? God's gonna be able to do what he wants to do with it no matter what. And so part of it, I wanna, you know, I'm um I even in try if if if I'm so worried about, oh my gosh, did I do this for the right reason? Did I do this? Oh I'm all caught up in myself again, right? And I gotta be careful of that. Um second, it's people. Like I heard this amazing message again about Paul the other day, um, where he was shipwrecked and he was they were building a fire and he got um a snake attached to his hand. And the islanders looked at that and they're like, oh my gosh, he must be a murderer, he must be the worst criminal on this ship because he got as soon as he got he got saved, and then he got got bitten by a snake, right? Now he's gonna die. So he must be awful, and then he didn't die, and so they immediately switched to he must be a god, right? And it's just like Jesus, palm Sunday, Hosanna, and then by Friday, crucify him, right? And so I think part of what God is warning us about there is the fickleness of people. That's what my head is like how shifty people are. Oh my gosh, if you do things to please people, you are you're never gonna have any contentment. You're never gonna, it's never gonna be good enough because people change their expectations, their what they want at any given moment, uh, who they're gonna praise and who they're not gonna praise, and who's in the in-crowd. And that is so shifting is exactly right, Jen. I mean, it it it is sinking sand, right? Like it is sand, it's gonna shift constantly. And if that's what our purpose is, is to get those accolades, it's a moving target all the time. And God doesn't want us, He does not want us spending our energy to try and please other people.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Well, I think yes, and I think sometimes when you're in a season of doing really great work is when the crowd turns on you. Right. It's it's no different than what happened with Jesus himself. When people feel like things are going too well for you, you've got too much power, you've got whatever the things are that you're doing, those are seasons where the crowd turns. They also, a lot of times for me, are the seasons where the enemy is the loudest in my head. Oh, absolutely. And so, like, I put myself in some of those moments and I'm already getting like spiritually attacked from the enemy, but that's also the moment when like the crowd will turn on you when you're you're doing your best work. And so I think you're spot on with if we are trying to please people or win the opinions of men, not only is it a really terrible form of idolatry, but also it's really damaging to us because they're shifty, and sometimes in our best work is when like they show up the worst, jealousy, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Totally, totally yes, um and so I mean, doesn't that just cast this whole thing I mean, in like the five minutes of us talking, Jen, I feel like my whole view of this verse has shifted. Um because it it felt like it was all about humility and heart posture and serving the Lord, and I think that it is, but it also now feels like protection.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

I think so. But okay, so we've talked about the lake house before, yeah. But like here's the deal. We felt very called to move to Des Moines financial logistics-wise, the first thing that we had to do was sell the lake house. Like that was the first domino that had to fall. And we were not yet ready to tell anyone that we were moving. Like we had we hadn't told our parents, we hadn't told our friends, like we had told no one, despite the fact that we had a lot of conviction that that was the thing. And so we like made up a story and just said, like, it just the lake house ended up being too much. We overcommitted, like, we're gonna sell it. And the reaction of the people around us, Lydia, they thought we were getting a divorce. They were, they're like, like, someone has cancer or you're getting a divorce. Like, you wouldn't just sell this beautiful thing that you've bought. And we let the rumors fly because we very much knew that like it was God's will, we were being obedient and it wasn't time to talk about it yet. But I think, like, yes, protection, but also when you start to do things that the world does not understand, I think the world responds and like fills in that story however they want to fill in that story. And in our case, it wasn't helpful for any for anyone. But then when we were finally able to say, like, okay, here's like what's going on, here's why we felt called to do it, here's like, here's what happened. Um, then I think it made sense and it maybe made the testimony like more powerful because we were silent for like months before we told anyone what was going on. But in the midst of it, it was it was very weird. It was very weird.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

So how about the other side of it? The you know, nobody puts a light, uh lights a lamp and puts it under a basket, right? So if you let your light shine before men that um people will see your good works and will praise God. How do we how do we grasp the contrast there? Or is there a contrast of here's a big spotlight on what I'm doing, but don't let anybody see it.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Um so that one for me actually like brings up something different, and we can choose whether you want to go here or not, because it might be totally off topic. But um, so what I believe, my faith, shapes who I show up as in this world, even in secular places. So, like my leadership was highly influenced by what I believe about God and about people and about what I'm supposed to do with the people he has entrusted me with. Um, but I think we live in a time where it's very complicated to be a Christian, uh, especially in the secular marketplace world. Um, it's a complicated time to be a Christian. And so I think for a lot of years, I left faith at the door when I walked into that office building because I didn't understand how it fit in that circumstance. And I can remember meeting another believer who was more forward with his faith. And we got this idea that we wanted to form like a faith-based employee resource group for Christians. And we went and asked, and the response that we got from HR was that we were not allowed to, because it would make people who were LGBTQ uncomfortable. And so the company would not support a Christian-based ERG. So we're like, cool. How about just like a faith, like a general faith employee group? Same answer. And so I say that to say, like, I've had a hard time bringing my faith into that space. And I had a very reinforcing experience that said, like, it does not belong here. And so if I think about where I spent the majority of my time for a lot of my career, I think when I read this verse, I think, but like they're supposed to know that you're a woman of faith. Like you're supposed to be leading with this faith that draws people closer to Christ, even if you're not actively evangelizing, which I don't think is like was ever my job in the marketplace. But man, it took me a long time to figure out like how you integrate those two things so that I could show up as my whole self at work in a place where I wasn't completely sure that like all of that was welcome. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Absolutely. Um, and I think that you're definitely not alone in that. Right. And it's funny because we think that we live, I mean I think there's still some conception that the United States is a Christian country. Um, but I think that you're absolutely right that there are places where you cannot necessarily be as vocal. Um, I've always lived in the South for the most part. I went to school in Michigan for a little while, but almost always in the South. And it's never, I mean, I've never had to not talk about my faith, but I'm sure that there are places that I could um that I could go where it I would be shocked at the difference in that. Um and so but I think that I do think that the Jesus is called, you know, again, we may not be the um the we may not, you know, we may not be able to evangelize to our the people our direct reports like that may be not allowed in the company that we're in, but letting our faith inform who we are and how we treat people and like I think that people should be able to see a difference in us even if they don't know what it is. Right? Like I think that if we're living like Jesus, people should say there's something about her. What is it? And I want more of it. I want to know. I whatever she has, I want. Um so do you think that's more of what he was talking about in letting our light shine?

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Maybe. And I think like personally for me, where I got to eventually was like, I said the same prayer every morning, which was Lord, gotta do nothing else today. Let me lead with love. Like, let me just go love the people around me, even the ones who want to punch me in the face. Like, let me just go lead with love. And I think it was a way of being in my leadership roles that was very different than what most people were doing. Doing. Um, and when I left my last job, I had a conversation with a man on my team who I'm gonna like guess, I think he was Jewish. Um, he was not Christian. And I was leaving. And he goes, You should write a book about how your faith influenced your leadership style. And I was like, How did you even know? And he looked at me and he goes, Well, because when you asked a question, I could sense that you weren't listening for data or statistics. You were listening to my humanity. And he's like, I just feel like there had to be something below that that was creating that. But like you saw into me. And he goes, and I just kind of assumed you were Christian. I don't know. Um, and so I do think you're right. I do think it's a way of being in those roles that is different, maybe, than what a traditional marketplace leader would be doing.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

And I think it might be important, Jen, that we address the other side of that. So, what if you're not a leader? What if you're an employee, right? And you don't have any um direct reports or or influence necessarily, or feel like you don't have any influence, right? Because you're not a leader. Um, and I I don't know. I mean, I've been in that space. I'm gonna assume that you were in that space at some point, even if it was all God's children have a boss. Um and that can that can feel like a hard space to. Um, it goes back to, you know, um there's this idea that sometimes almost everything is out of my control. But the one thing that is always in my control is how I show up. It's my attitude, right? That is always within my control. That's the one thing that no matter what, if I'm in a job where I have I'm watching very un-Christian things happen and people being treated badly, and I'm being treated badly, and um people are being cheated, or people, you know, I mean, all sorts of things that might happen in the workplace. And I don't have any control over any of it. I can't stop any of it. The one thing that I can always control is how I show up. And nobody gets to take that away from me. Nobody gets to decide that for me. Even if I'm being treated very, very badly, I always get to decide how I show up. And I think just like you were able to lead with love, like you can also follow and serve with love. Um and it is hard. Like it's a, you know, on a day-to-day basis to be in a toxic work environment and show up and try to just whoever is in your circle of influence, there's somebody, whether it's a customer or um a student or you know, somebody is in your circle of influence, a coworker. And you can show up and just whoever that person is that God puts in front of you, you treat them like it's Jesus standing right there. Um we always have that ability. Nobody can take that away from us. That is, you know, I heard there was something I was listening to, and it said it was talking about this particular gentleman. And it just said that the environment shifted into every room he walked into. But Jen, that should be every single one of us. I was thinking that I was like, if we carry Jesus Christ in our bodies, we carry the Holy Spirit with us, the power of resurrection with us wherever we go. It travels with us. We don't leave it at home, right? And go to work and come or go shopping or whatever it is, it goes with us. Jen, every single room that we walk into, the environment should shift the second we step into it. And I um I'm not always thinking about that when I walk into a room, like that I'm bringing Jesus into that room.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

I think you're not alone in that, clearly, right? Um but like what what that makes me think of is God put you there. Like he put you in the room, in the job that you're in, even when you were working for someone less than optimal, he put you there. And like one of one of the other verses that we pulled today was Colossians 3.23, which is whatever you do, work at it with all your heart as working for the Lord, not for human masters. And so I I think you're right in they should know we should love the people in proximity to us, right? Like that's that's the ultimate command. But I do think sometimes we pretend that like these things that we're doing are for people who maybe we don't respect and environments that we don't want to be a part of, doing work that we don't want to be doing. I think like we forget, like God's in control of who's in control. He puts you there, he puts you there to do the work. And I think, especially in hard environments, if you can be the person who does the work, not for your boss who might be a jerk, but for God. Like, what is the work that God has given you to do there? And you need to do it with him. Like, that's your point about the Holy Spirit is dead on. Like you literally, you literally are like a vessel for the living God. And yet sometimes to where like many of our conversations go, we get so fixated on our circumstances and our jerk of a boss or our incompetent peer, this guy that works for me. And we like make our circumstances feel really big, and it almost silences the fact that like God's with us the whole time. He knows he's there, he has you there anyway. Right. And how it's like the exact opposite of what he would want, which is just like, hey, I love you. You're mine. I didn't say this was gonna be easy. I put you there on purpose. Go figure out why you are there in a way, maybe to like our original verse question, in a way that you create a light in the world. Like I think we're called to be lights, even in like the dark places where sometimes we find ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

And oh, Jen, it's so easy to sit here and talk about. And it's so hard to do. Um I mean, honestly, the circumstances beat you down after a while, right? And I think, you know, I mean, thank God that he uh understands that and he knows that and he knows that we are weak. Um, like I was this, I this probably has absolutely nothing to do with our episode. But I'm gonna share it anyway, because there may be somebody else who needs to hear it, Jen. Um I came to the point where I was so, I was just like, God, I don't want to be weak. I don't want to be human. I don't want to make mistakes. Um, I was just really honest about it. I'm a I'm a perfectionist, I'm a control freak. I want everything in in my world, in my sphere to be perfect for everybody that I love. Um and I, but at the core of it, I am so deathly afraid of making a mistake, of making a wrong decision. Of um, I feel like the, you know, the whole thing's gonna come tumbling down if I make a wrong move. And I bet there are moms and wives and daughters and employees that are listening right now who carry that same burden that we were never meant to carry. So I want to speak directly to them. Is I basically said the words, God, I don't want to be weak. And I felt him immediately speak to me and say, then where is my strength going to be perfected? Because I told you that it was perfected in your weakness. And if you will not allow yourself to be weak, then where is my strength going to be perfected in your life, Lydia? And that really hit me just so hard. Um, and I'm not, I haven't figured it out yet. I mean, this was like two days ago. But um I guess all that to come back to our what we were talking about is to come back and say his grace, right? We are not gonna get it right every day. We are gonna go to work and we're gonna say something to somebody that we sh we will instantly regret. Um something's gonna happen where we definitely don't feel like we're carrying Jesus into the workplace that day. And I just want to say his grace is deep enough and wide enough for every one of those moments. And he picks us back up and he says, Okay, let's try again, Lydia. Let's try again. You didn't get that one exactly right. That's okay. I'm gonna give you plenty more opportunities. I'm gonna give you plenty more opportunities that are that are you're gonna have a chance to get it right. And you may not get the next one right, and you may not get the next one right, but you might get the one after that right, and then you'll probably fail again after that. Um I underestimate his grace constantly.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

It feels like there's something else underneath that though, which is so often we view that it's all on us to do it right, to get it right, and yes, his grace is sufficient. But the other thing I heard you say was in those moments of surrender where you realize that like you cannot fix it, he can. Like, I think back to our episode around like what's mine to do and what's God's to do. And it's almost back to like how quick we are to make ourselves the gods that have to be perfect and have to get it right and have to do all the things, and everything depends on us. And it feels like what he said to you was hey, like the reason you're human, the reason that you're weak is so that I can demonstrate my power and strength. Like, girl, I got this, trust me. And I think Ben is humans, right? Like when you're in those toxic places, like there are some that like you just need to leave, right? Like, yes, there are some where the signs are clear, you know it's not your home, right? There are others where you're called to be a light. And I can think about one where I was like out, I had tried everything within my human mind to fix the situation and make it doable. And I can remember the moment I finally surrendered it. And I was like, God, like, I don't even know what to do with this. I can't handle it anymore. I have done all that I know to do. Like, I need you to take this. And what I got back was, it's about time. Finally, I was saying the same thing. And the thing is, it's like waiting on you, Jen. He did not handle it in the way that I wanted it handled. Like, what happened what transpired there is not what I wanted. And and I think that that's like part of it, right? Is all of that turned into a giant blessing, like blessing upon blessing upon blessing, right? But if it had been up to me, I would never have made the choice that he made on my behalf because he could see things that I could never see.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Yeah. That's so Jonah, is it not? Like, Lord, I knew you were gonna be merciful and I didn't want you to be, so I wasn't going. And you're like, Lord, I knew you were gonna do it, you weren't gonna do it the way I wanted, so I wasn't gonna give it to you. Right. Until I absolutely had no choice, until you were in the belly of the whale, right? And that's when you finally gave it to him. I mean, I think sometimes we just have to get into the belly of the whale. I and I know this probably has nothing to do with our original question, but I think it's a really good, um, I think it's a really good conversation. And like we've told our audience before, we never have any idea which way the Holy Spirit is gonna, but he needed us to take it in this direction. Maybe, maybe you are in the belly of the whale right now, and um you just needed to know, you know, you're not you're not alone. We've all been in the belly of the whale. We've all been, we've sometimes God will just let us get to the point where we are at the end of everything we can do. We have no choice, we have to surrender, um, and give it to him and just be like, okay, God, I can't do this, I can't handle it, do it your way. I'm probably not gonna like it, but I don't, I'm, I'm done. I don't have any choice. Um, but I love what you the other thing that you said, Jen, was this that it ended up being such a huge blessing even though it wasn't it didn't come in the way you wanted it to come.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

But I like okay. So if we go back to our original question and the original like scripture that we pulled, it feels like the point is relying on the opinions of other people is a trap. Even those that we work for or work with, and doing good deeds for God and not for man, and maybe surrendering things that we cannot control or fix to allow him to work in them are the moments where our faith shines in maybe what I would call productive ways.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

I think we have this idea that faith that it's always that it's always done with the absolute that we always have to show our faith with the right heart posture that we're showing it with joy, we're we're full of peace, there's no doubt. And then I mean that's not the faith that we see in the Bible. The faith we see in the Bible is Moses saying, God, I can't talk, you know, I can't do this, don't send me, right? And he was the closest to God out of, you know, I mean, so many. Um, the certainly in that generation, he was closer to God than anybody else. And he had so many doubts. Abraham, you know, screwed everything up and slept with Sarah's um handmaid, and still God, you know, and he's still all over the New Testament called the the hero of faith, right? Um, but he doubted, he had a moment of doubt, created an Ishmael. Like our faith is not gonna be perfect. And it doesn't have to be to be uh I use the word you did productive, right? It doesn't have to be perfect for God to use it, for our light to shine. But I think a lot of times the faith that um my faith, when he's used my faith the most, is when I did it shaking, is when I did whatever he was asking me to do, I did it absolutely shaking, whether it was outside or inside or both. And I've done it. There's been times where I was shaking on the outside, but certainly many, many times where I was shaking on the inside. And I still did it. And that I think is the faith that shines forth the brightest.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

I um I think about some of those moments for me where I had to go do a hard thing that I knew I had to do and I didn't I didn't want to do it, and I was terrified. Yeah. And the image that I always get is like being surrounded by chariots of fire, which I think is Elijah, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Um well, if you're I don't know if you're thinking about the Elisha story where his servant was like all scared because they were surrounded, yeah, and God's like open his eyes but let him see.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

And so I think um I heard a speaker a couple of weeks ago. It was actually like a high school senior who is wise beyond her years. Oh, wow. Um, but she talked about how people would look at her and think she was fearless. And she goes, What they're actually seeing is that I'm faithful. And so, like in those moments, I literally like chariots of fire surround me, like protect me as I go do this thing that you have asked me to go do to say the truth in a room that does not want the truth to see the light of day, like protect me as I go in there. But I do think when he talks about giving us a spirit of strength and courage, I do think that it is often in those moments where we are terrified and absent our faith. Like we would not be able to walk in and do the thing that we know we need to walk in and do. And so I go back to like that image of being just like surrounded in his protection as I do it, that I think allowed me to like say and do things in this world that I would have never done absent that confidence.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Oh, amen. Agree a hundred percent. Yes. So pulling all of this back to you know, just faithful obedience, and just knowing that God sees everything. That nothing we do is wasted. Even if nobody else ever notices it or comments on it, or knows that we did it, God sees it. And and Jesus doesn't just say that God sees it, he says God rewards it. Right? So we can rest assured that I mean our Father who has who owns everything in the entire universe, if he, if Jesus says he's gonna reward us, imagine what that reward is gonna look like. Um I think it today has really helped me, Jen, to remember one, doing things for people is just dumb because they're gonna change their opinion, right? Like doing Doing it just not not for people, that sounded wrong. Doing it so that people will notice or praise me, that's what I meant. Of course, they want to do things for people, right? But um, but doing things just so that people will notice, like they're gonna turn on you, they're not gonna it, they're gonna interpret it like, oh, well, yeah, she did that, but she just did that because of this, right? They're gonna, you know, it's it's there's just so many things. But the father sees my heart and he'll never misinterpret why I did something. Um and he's gonna reward me for it. And I'm also taking away the idea of I don't have to be doing grand huge deeds to obey Jesus to let my light shine. Like literally just showing up in a room, remembering who lives inside of me is gonna answer that. If I show up with Jesus inside of me and I just try to serve those people that he has put in front of me to the very best of my ability, my light is gonna shine, or his light is gonna shine through me.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Yeah. So there's a book that I can't remember the name or the author, but it talks about how when people choke, like think about athletes that choke or leaders that choke, or people who in like key moments choke, the underlying reason in most of that is because of their fear of other people's opinions, and they let that put this weight on them that robs them of their best performance. And so, like the thing that I'm taking away is how much freedom there is if you truly believe that you are playing for an audience of one.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Oh, amen.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Amen. Which I know is like a beautiful thing to say and a much harder thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

But I just I wonder how much more peaceful my life would be if I could remember that every moment.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

Yes. Maybe it would be helpful if we would remind each other, right? Um and not just I don't just mean you and me, but like all of us, yeah. Um just remind each other.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Yeah. Should we say a prayer over our listeners? I think we should.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

You want to pray or you want me to do it? I think you should do it.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

Lord, we come into these never knowing where the conversation will go. But Lord, we walk away changed with new perspective and the reminder that yours is the only opinion that matters. Lord, in a world where achievement is praised and sought after, Lord, I just ask that you change our hearts, change our listeners' hearts, and turn them back to you, that we might keep our eyes on you and remember that whatever is in front of us, we are doing the work for you and not for human masters. That we would let the opinions of other people go and remember who we're really working for. And Lord, we are imperfect, flawed humans. You get it wrong a lot more than we get it right. But Lord, remind us that you use it all for the good of your kingdom and for your glory, and that we don't need to do anything big or miraculous for our lights to shine, but to simply remember that we carry you with us and you will shine the light that brings others to know you. Lord, let us release the pressure and let us be reminded that you are with us, that yours is the only opinion that matters, and that you protect us as we go. Attempt to be a light in this often very dark world. Your listeners are safe, and help them find your joy until they're back again. Amen.