Part 2: Debunking More Assumptions About Pennsylvania Wines

Pennsylvania wine has a reputation problem, and it’s not because the vineyards can’t deliver. We sit down with Jennifer Estelle of Endless Mountains Vineyards to talk about what actually makes this region unique, why the “East Coast equals sweet” stereotype sticks, and how dry wines and on-site grape growing can completely change what ends up in the glass.

We get into the big goal on the horizon: creating an AVA (American Viticultural Area) for the region. Jennifer explains why AVA status is a serious, research-heavy process, and how it can reshape wine marketing, restaurant support, and vineyard tourism by giving the Endless Mountains a clearer identity. If you’ve ever wondered why Napa became the default reference point, the timeline and branding power behind AVAs puts that in perspective.

From there, we go practical. Organic and sustainable viticulture in Pennsylvania isn’t a copy-paste from California because humidity brings mold and fungus pressure that growers have to manage. Jennifer shares how small wineries build an ecosystem over time, why “kind on chemicals” still involves real-world tradeoffs, and how tiny teams doing everything by hand face different costs than corporate-scale wine regions.

We also talk vine age and varieties: 25-year-old plantings, what harvest numbers like pH and Brix tell you, and why grapes like Riesling, Pinot Noir, Kerner, Cab Franc, and a standout Traminette can help Pennsylvania wine earn new fans. Subscribe, share this with a friend who doubts East Coast wine, and leave a review with the biggest myth you think needs to die next.

To learn more about Endless Mountains Vineyards visit:
https://www.EndlessMountainsVineyards.com/
Endless Mountains Vineyards 
296 Vineyard Lane  
Falls, PA 18615
267-785-3814  

Transcript

Welcome To Endless Mountains Vineyards

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Endless Mountains Vineyards Podcast, where the landscape slows you down, the wine invites conversation, and every visit tells a story. Join your host, Jennifer Estelle, owner and operator of Endless Mountains Vineyards. Nestled in the rolling hills of Pennsylvania's Endless Mountains, this podcast is an invitation into intimate vineyard experiences, small gatherings, meaningful events, and stories that live where people, purpose, and the land meet. Endless Mountains Vineyards, where life is grape and connection is intentional.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Pennsylvania wine has a deeper story than most people realize. And today we're discussing what makes this region so unique, from old vines to organic varieties to the future of our AVA. Welcome, I'm Julie Schwenzer with Jennifer Estelle, the owner and operator of Endless Mountains Vineyards. Jennifer, we're so glad to be back with you and

Pennsylvania Wine Myths And What’s Next

SPEAKER_01 1:03

learn from you. This is part two of our conversation about debunking the myths surrounding Pennsylvania wines. And, you know, we discussed some really interesting points about the misconceptions, and you mentioned this, like how East Coast wines are considered for many to be like fruit bombs, and how you really set yourself apart by having the vines on site instead of other wineries that source the fruit. And you also shared the differences between West Coast wines and East Coast wines. And if people want to know some of uh Jennifer's favorite Pennsylvania wines, you have to check out our last episode, episode

Building An AVA For Identity

SPEAKER_01 1:39

five. So, um, if we could continue talking about this, now the you guys um are thinking about creating an AVA for your region. Can you expand on that and how that could, you know, really impact marketing and tourism and the identity of wine?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Yes, thank you for the beautiful introduction. And I'll always like to start out full disclosure is I'm really new to winemaking and grape growing. I'm a new farmer. I'm three years in, and this is our fourth season, and every season has been a little bit different. So I know what I know, and I have an open mind, and I'm very interested in learning. So I didn't know anything about growing grapes when I bought the vineyard. I bought the vineyard to help save dogs, but uh that's another episode. An AVA is an American viticulture area, and it helps promote the region and the terror and everything that goes along with a vineyard and also wineries. So an EVA kind of puts you on the map because you did the research, you did the education, you created the community. We started talking about an EVA like two years ago, and it's very detailed. So everyone that's in our committee has full-time jobs, and you know, we get really far and then we stop. But an EVA means that we can put that on our bottles. It means that we're a stamped um vineyard and winery that we did our research and there's a lot of history, and there's a reason why we have an AVA and why we were approved for an EVA. And some people ask, it's more of your, I guess, your wine connoisseurs if you have an AVA. Uh, we don't, but we're in the process of getting the AVA, and it will probably be like another year or two, but it's really good for tourism and it's really good for marketing, and it just puts us in a different category, it sets us apart.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Yeah, and I looked into it a little bit in the AVAs that are in Pennsylvania. There's only, let me see, there's only like two that are entirely in the state currently, and then there's like three that neighbor that share their um property with neighboring states. That's a pretty big deal if you guys it is a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

So Lehigh Valley, she it's called Gallen Glen. They are in the Lehigh Valley. They just received their AVA a few years ago, so they kind of set the map for us to continue that. But it's really cool that the Lehigh Valley, which is two hours from us, has it. And Aaron, the winemaker there, I think last year or the year before, they actually won Best White. And again, just to kind of go off topic a little bit, in the Lehigh Valley, they are very kind in promoting local and very kind in promoting like their wines. So they have a lot of restaurants in like the Philadelphia area and the Lehigh Valley that actually support their wine. Where here we're still in the groundbreaking area of teaching our local restaurants that Pennsylvania has a very robust wine list.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

And you know, I think it's interesting too that like you know, a lot of people associate Napa Valley with like the ultimate, you know, area in the US, and that actually became an AVA in like 1981 or something, so it wasn't that long ago. No, you know, so that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Yeah, it is very interesting, all of it.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Yeah, yeah.

Sustainable Farming In Humid Climates

SPEAKER_01 5:18

And then um can you talk more too about the Pennsylvania wine and like organic varieties and the ones that you have there and why you chose them?

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Yeah, so we don't per se have any organic wines. The grapes, I don't think there's like an organic grape. It's kind of the way you like treat them and process them. We're very um, I'm using the word kind a lot today, but we're very kind on the chemicals that we use. We want to create an ecosystem, which it takes a few years to build an ecosystem. Organic doesn't mean that you don't use product, it means that you're under this certain threshold. So we have to use products here because we combat mold and fungus, things that they don't have to worry about in California. We have to worry about things here. Nimble Hill, which is a local vineyard, they are actually experimenting with a plot. So that's cool that they're doing it, doing the experiment because we'll be able to get a lot of that research to see if it's possible here. But yeah, the difference is we don't have to irrigate like California irrigates. And another difference between like Pennsylvania, especially a small winery and vineyard like myself, where we s focus on small batch, is California has a bigger staff. There's a lot more money, the land is worth more money, so they can put that money into their staff, into creating, but they're also corporations. So behind the scenes, we're not corporate, we're very small, we're local. Everything we touch, all the leaves, all the grapes, a lot goes into the winemaking, which sometimes raises our cost. But California can do it at a cheaper cost because they have a bigger corporate funding that's allowing them to have a bigger, robust vineyard. So there's kind of like this trade-off where we're fighting to say, hey, don't forget about us over here. We're small and we're doing everything, you know, right. Um, but sometimes you just you can't beat the corporations.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Yeah, absolutely. And that goes uh for many industries, right?

Old Vines And Familiar Grapes

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Um, and then what about your vines? They're maybe older than people expect because you have some vines that are more than is 25 years old. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Yeah, yeah. So, and it is funny because a lot of people are like, they didn't know this existed because prior to me it was just a hobby farm, so he never promoted it or did any marketing. He just sold and kept grapes for his own winemaking. But most of our grapes are about 25 years old, and a lot of them are at that time, that's what they thought they can grow here. Recently, we added Riesling, Pinot Noir, Kerner, which is a European grape, which is a white grape. It's just different varieties, but some people want the variety that they're familiar with. A lot of people know Pinot Noir and Riesling, and not Kerner, or not Bruner, or Traminette. So it's kind of like selling them something that they're not familiar with. So it's nice that we can say we do have a Pinot Noir and a Cab Franc and anything that they grow on the European line.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Sure. And then the vine age too, influencing like quality and complexity. Could you expand on that for on the Pennsylvanian wine side?

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Yeah, so obviously the older the vine, the more mature the grape is going to be. And at the end of harvest, when it comes to harvest, our numbers are usually right where the winemaker wants them with your pH and your bricks, which is your sugar. So because the vines are about they're aged, you know, just like wine, the longer they age, the better the fruit. They're just very mature, and you know, our Tramonette has been quoted from other winemakers as the best tramonette in Pennsylvania. It's a beautiful grape, and by the time we harvest it, the numbers are perfect, and you can do anything that you want with it. That's what makes having an older vine very special.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Well, congratulations for that. That's amazing.

The Future Of Pennsylvania Wine

SPEAKER_01 9:36

And overall, what does moving forward look like for Pennsylvania wine as a whole and your part in that?

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yeah, I think we're just honestly scratching the surface of what Pennsylvania wine can be. I like when people come here and I just I'm very upfront. I'm like, we only have dry wines. We have like a semi-sweet white, but we don't specialize in sweet wines. And that sometimes either A turns people away or they're all in. Once you say that, they're like, that's all we drink. So I think that we're just really scratching the surface on what Pennsylvania could do and the whole East Coast itself. Like, I'm new to grape growing and wine uh viticulture, but the Finger Lakes, which is north of us, they have been established for a very long time. They were for a very long time fruit bombs. But I think Dr. Frank is one of the um first to start growing different varieties. So it's been done for a few years up at the Finger Lakes, and it's starting to make its way down. And new to me too, until the past couple years, there's a whole wine trail, the whole East Coast, starting up from like the Hudson Valley all the way down to Virginia. So, and we're right in the middle of that. And not only we're in the middle of that as a vineyard, we're in the middle of that as a very touristy area. So I'm excited. I again, I didn't know anything about wine, but I think that the universe aligned to allow me to buy this place for a reason. And I'm excited to see where Pennsylvania wine goes, um, especially with creating the AVA and all of the um I guess the originals. We call them the OG winemakers in the area. There's a lot of knowledge here.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Oh, that's amazing. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for breaking down the truth behind Pennsylvania wines, and you gave us a clearer picture of where this region is headed. We appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Thank you. Same to you, Julie.

Visit The Vineyard And Stay Connected

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Thank you for spending time with us on the Endless Mountains Vineyards podcast. Whether you're discovering Pennsylvania wines, exploring the beauty of the Endless Mountains region, or simply looking for experiences that feel personal and grounded. Endless Mountains Vineyards offers something a little different. This is a place where wine brings people together with purpose. We'd love to welcome you to the vineyard, share a glass, and invite you into the experience. You can call or text 267-785-3814 or visit Endless Mountains Vineyards.com to learn more about upcoming events and vineyard experiences. Endless Mountains Vineyards, where life is great and every visit gives back.