The Real Ghosts Of...
The Real Ghosts Of...
43. Wine & Spirits: Voices From Beyond
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In this episode of The Real Ghosts Of... , we dive deep into the world of EVP (Electronic Voice Phenomena) and ITC (Instrumental Transcommunication), exploring how our perspectives on spirit communication have evolved. We also briefly discuss the history of ITC, highlighting pioneers like Marcello Bacci, Frank Sumption, and Nikola Tesla with his Spirit Radio, and how their work has shaped modern paranormal research.
We also break down the mechanics behind EVPs—examining modulation, frequency manipulation, and possible explanations for how these voices manifest. Are they truly the voices of the dead, or is something else at play? Our thoughts on the nature of EVP are shifting, and we're unpacking the possibilities. Come on the journey with us! 👻
Tune in for an eye-opening discussion on the science, skepticism, and spectral mysteries behind one of the most well-known forms of paranormal evidence.
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Do you have any stories you'd like to share for a Wine & Spirits episode or somewhere you'd like us to investigate? Send us a message and let us know!
Welcome to the Real Ghosts of Podcast, where we explore haunted locations in and around Austin, Texas. We're your hosts Nicole Ricardo and Damian Shilacy.
SPEAKER_00Listen along as we couple in-depth historical research and paranormal investigative techniques with a sixth sense of the unknown.
SPEAKER_01What was that?
SPEAKER_03Clearing my throat.
SPEAKER_01You're clearing your throat too bad.
SPEAKER_03Gotta do my vocal exercises.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Well, that's a great way to start the episode.
SPEAKER_03Did you hear recording?
SPEAKER_01No, I did. Great.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Um, alrighty. So here's another episode of You get Nicole and Damien talking at you. However, we have a specific topic for today. I've been keeping a little note. Little notes on my phone.
SPEAKER_01You do have a little note on your phone there.
SPEAKER_03Um stuff that we mention or that comes up in episodes that we haven't necessarily discussed on on here yet. So I wanted to take a little deeper dive today on this wine and spirits in which we are not having wine.
SPEAKER_01No, but I am having uh Yeah, let's shout out our drinks. This is actually really, really, really good. It is It is so Waterloo Sparkling Water has made uh Shout out Waterloo, we love them. Shout out Waterloo.
SPEAKER_03They are based in Austin too, actually. If you would like to sponsor us, Waterloo. Dang, I should reach out to them.
SPEAKER_01Hello, Waterloo. Um they no, it's called Pinot Colada. And I love a pinot colada, I really do. And this is just a sparkling water that tastes like that.
SPEAKER_03It's so good, and it's so funny because we were talking about how we both uh started drinking sparkling water to begin with, you know. And when I was in college, I got hooked on the LaCroix Coconut waters.
SPEAKER_01It's it's really good, and it is a specifically it's a certain person that likes that one.
SPEAKER_03This one is way better. It's way better. This one is so good.
SPEAKER_01It does taste like you're on a cruise.
SPEAKER_03I've never been on a cruise. That was Millie. That was Millie. That was Millicent. This the stupid bruv. Bruving around. Millicent.
SPEAKER_01Millie Million.
SPEAKER_03We're recording. Even Hurricane is put away.
SPEAKER_01Um no, so the Waterloo uh Pini Colada tastes amazing, tastes like a pini colada, and it's guilt-free.
SPEAKER_03It's real good. And I am drinking coffee, not wine, because it is. I mean, I guess we could have wine. It's a Sunday. It's 11 28 a.m. It's like, you know, it's close enough. It's five o'clock somewhere.
SPEAKER_01I could pour us a couple glasses.
SPEAKER_03We're living on New Orleans time here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if you want to if you want to start talking, I can go get us a couple glasses.
SPEAKER_03Um no, I don't really want wine right now. I want to finish my coffee. I made the oh, this is another one I should reach out to, huh? Bones, Bones Coffee. God. Well, let me just actually say, like, I typically I've been making my aunt send it to me from Florida because I couldn't find it here. Well, now we have it right down the road recently.
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm usually, when it comes to things like coffee, look, I like whole bean. I I I like I get kind of snobby sometimes with it, but You? Yeah. No. But this is really good. And I didn't think it would be.
SPEAKER_03Bones Coffee Coat, and they have all of these, so I I like a little sweet treat. I like sugar. Um and it's love is a better word. They have all these flavors. I love the s'mores one, but it's like always freaking sold out. So anyway, if you see the s'mores one, please get me a bag. Um they have the I'll I will pay you for it. It's so good. But the um the one I've been on recently is the holy cannoli.
SPEAKER_01Holy cannoli. I want to give a shout out to the one that you brought home. I believe it was for Valentine's Day.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and it was the special Valentine's Day one. It's a red velvet. Yeah. It's clear. I got and I got that one at World Market. So I guess World Market carries them now. But anyway, so I have that. I have some hazelnut creamer, and I wanted to kick it up a notch. So I have a salted caramel cold foam right now that I also put on top. So that is what I am drinking.
SPEAKER_01And I'm over here like smelling myself because I used the Lord of Misrule.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you used my body wash this morning.
SPEAKER_01And it is, I'm just gonna give a shout out to Lush. Lush.
SPEAKER_03Um we're just shouting out all our favorite things, and I'm over here taking notes. I need to reach out to them.
SPEAKER_01They have a body wash called Lord of Misrule, and it it it's amazing. We have the candle even. We were burning it last night. But when you use this body wash, I felt like the Hulk in the shower because it's green and it turns your whole body green. And I'm like smashing around in the shower, playing, frolicking around. It was great. Oh my god. Yeah, I So thank you, Lush.
SPEAKER_03I love Lord of Misrule is my favorite scent, and usually around because it's only around like Halloween time that they come out with it. Um I hoard it.
SPEAKER_01Do you? I do. Well, the candle is what got me on it last night. You lit that and I was like, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and you should be very honored that I lit that because I I'm not kidding when I say I hoard it. Like I've probably had that candle for over a year. It's one of those things, you know, it's like you don't light the nice candle, you know, but I just ugh it smells so good.
SPEAKER_01Well, now that we have taken the time to give shout-outs to people who do not sponsor us or care who we are.
SPEAKER_03But if you would like to, please reach out. We would we would love you to be able to do that. Please reach out.
SPEAKER_01Uh let's say this before we dive in. Even if you are not uh an awesome company that makes awesome products, we want to hear from you.
SPEAKER_03We've been getting um emails and and and packages and snail mail and yeah, and here, actually, this is because this is something that Damien and I were um debating last night. Yeah uh because I have been getting quite a few emails in recently from people submitting their stories and things that they've been going through and like ghost stories. And so, you know, original experiences. Yeah, and so like original RGO for anybody who's been here since the beginning, you've been listening since to since the beginning, those actually were the original Wine and Spirits episodes where it was us um playing a a recording from somebody sharing their story and then doing like reactions, kind of talking about it. Um so if that is something that you are interested in and you would be curious to hear the stories that people are submitting and the experiences that they're having, um, and it would be like I would read one and you know, then we kind of react, talk about it, then Damian will read one, we'll react, talk about it. If that's something you're interested in, let me know. Um, but also if you're not interested, like let me know that too. And that's okay. Because to be honest with you, and I'm gonna out myself here, I so I love morbid. Um the podcast. The podcast. I love morbid. Um and whenever they do the like listener tales once, I just honestly I never listen to them. I just skip them.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, and and again, call it market research, but we do want to hear from you because you know, we it's no secret we have two.
SPEAKER_03I want to hear either way.
SPEAKER_01We have two podcasts, and we want to be able to give you whatever kind of content it is you want on whatever format. So just you know, let us know.
SPEAKER_03Let us know. We will do that baby. I always have linked in the the show, the show notes, the show description. Um, but it is the real ghostof at gmail.com.
SPEAKER_01So that voice.
SPEAKER_03Please, please send us uh yeah, yeah. I want to hear from you. I want to know because obviously, like literally we're doing this for you. So um just chat with us.
SPEAKER_01Send us an email.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Chat with us.
SPEAKER_01We'll we'll reply.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Maybe maybe. I'm real bad about replying to things, to be honest. My yeah, email is better though than my DMs. My DMs are always insane. I literally, I have an assistant now.
SPEAKER_01We are gonna get a P.O. box soon though, because we've had a lot of people sending snail mail, sending over little packages, things like that. They want us to have. We're gonna get on it. I'm sold on it. Yeah, yes, I am.
SPEAKER_03I'm we've been talking about it for a bit, and yeah, we actually we have had quite a few people been asking recently if we have a P.O. box. So all right, well, I'll do I mean I'll do it after this episode.
SPEAKER_01Next, we're gonna get a fax machine, and we're gonna get real into technology with the.
SPEAKER_03I want carrier bats. Carrier bats. Okay, let's get let's get into what we're talking about now that we're I don't know, how long are we in? 20 minutes. Oh well, 15 minutes. I have no I have no concept of time. No, you don't. No, uh Nicole time. I'm living in I'm living that big easy.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Big easy time, okay.
SPEAKER_01You do you.
SPEAKER_03All right, so anyway, so this episode, what I wanted to talk about uh specifically is modulation and our theories on that. Because at this point in our episodes, through our investigations, you have definitely heard me say before. Um, when we're doing Estes specifically, you'll usually hear me say something like, ooh, that sounded mechanical.
SPEAKER_01Like what's coming through, you mean?
SPEAKER_03Yes, and it happened, it happened in our octagon hall Estes session. We also heard a mechanical noise in an Estes session at Waverly. Uh, we actually heard a mechanical sounding noise, a beep, um, at the end of when we were recording the Waverly, the the last investigation episode.
SPEAKER_01Which actually, can I just jump in here uh to say that seems to be happening to us uh more and more now. So we actually just recorded yesterday. We recorded an episode for our other podcast.
SPEAKER_03For parapiculiar interviewed Courtney and Courtney from Google Guide, it was a lot of fun. If you're interested, that'll be on Parapeculiar soon.
SPEAKER_01And I can't wait to go back and listen to it because as we're doing this, you and I had to stop a couple of times and be like, what the hell?
SPEAKER_03It literally sounded like somebody was like a man's voice inside the house. Yeah, and then like you hear me turn around and I was like, Did somebody break in? Like, listen, we're recording right now. You need to listen to it.
SPEAKER_01It wouldn't have been funny if someone had broken and you're like, dude, we're recording. Oh shit, I'll come back later. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thank you. We we'll let you take all of our shit then.
SPEAKER_03Um it's all haunted.
SPEAKER_01Spoiler alert. Get fucked. It's funny because on the last, I believe, at this point, the last episode of RGO for our listeners here. Um, did you hear what was at the end? Uh if you were a listener, because we did. We had a what sounded like a woman's voice come through.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there were there were a few different, I guess, e VPs or potentially disembodied voices that we just caught on on well, I guess it was dis anyway. Yeah, we heard it in real time. But yeah, so I spliced those clips out and I put them in when we did the down the rabbit hole episode on Waverly. That's right in the beginning. Um, I play the clip and then I spliced out the specific portion where you can hear it happen, and I repeated that a few times, and then we have our new, our new sound effect that we're trying out. The weird, like, um, I don't know, like radio tuning sounding weird. I was real fucking excited about it.
SPEAKER_01Jazzed up. I have to say this. Like, I just want to like paint this little picture.
SPEAKER_03So when you were first messing with that that new sound effect, the the I just also have to know the amount of those fucking like radio tuning sound effects that I clicked through before I fell on that one. Yeah, and I was like, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So it's funny because uh as you were messing with it and like you're sitting on the couch and I'm over here scratching around doing something, and I look over and I just like see this big smile on your face. I'm like, what is this and you play it? And I'm like, okay. And you're like, yeah, I love it. I'm like, oh, okay. It's just game.
SPEAKER_03Okay, it was cooking my bacon. Yeah. Um what are we what are we talking about? So anyway, okay, this episode, what we are actually talking about today. Um, thank you if you've made it through our ramblings thus far. But um, our topic for today is modulation and talking about like I want we haven't gone in depth on that on RGO yet. And so I want, you know, you to explain like what we mean when we're saying modulation, but then just kind of talk about like our theories on that, and even talking a bit about um Marcello Bocci and like his radio stuff because and this is something we have found, you know, over the course of talking, even to like the people that we're interviewing on Parapeculiar, like paranormal people, they tend to not even be like they don't really know about this research, and I definitely didn't know until you started bringing it up because these people doing this research, like they're not in the paranormal. Right. You know, they're just researchers outside of it.
SPEAKER_01Not in that world, that community.
SPEAKER_03So anyway, that that's what we're talking today. So you want to dive into like explain like what we mean by that when we're saying modulation and kind of our thoughts on that and going back to you know research.
SPEAKER_01Sure, absolutely. And I think that we'll we'll start with what you know, what Nicole's saying here, anyone that listens, when we talk about robotic sounds and and words like modulation, that is typically when we are uh conducting something like an Esther session, EVP session, any kind of ITC work, which is using our radios or our white noise. ITC, which means instrumental trans communication.
SPEAKER_03What was that voice?
SPEAKER_01Well, it was a modulated voice, yeah. Um modulation, um, for those that are like musicians, guitar players, and whatnot, you get you get your your modulation effects. You know, modulation is modifying something at its signal, essentially. So in audio, you're you're modifying the the signal, the audio.
SPEAKER_03So like when you're using a pedal or something with your guitar and it's making it sound different, it is modulating the sound.
SPEAKER_01And so when we talk about it in the realm of uh talking to radios and stuff like that, you know, what we're talking about the idea of whatever it is we're communicating with, these beings, we'll we'll use that word, um, using a mixture of white noise or almost human speech patterns that come from the scan of a of a sweep of a radio of the radio band, like you have on a spirit box, using those those those audio bits, those white noise bits, uh, and modulating that to form speech.
SPEAKER_03And so to put this in I don't know, language that I would better understand. Um essentially what we're saying is through the course of doing all of this research, uh our experience, like doing these investigations, thinking a bit more deeply about these things, you know. We're thinking now instead of, you know, when we're doing this stuff, it's not necessarily like I'm a dead ghost and I'm coming up and whispering into your your microphone. So it's less that, and more that they are actually manipulating the electronic device to create said EVP or voice, whatever that is coming through. They are modulating, like they're distorting essentially.
SPEAKER_01And from what I understand, a lot of people that do this, that look at this phenomena are also saying the same thing about your basic EVP phenomena. Uh, because the white noise that even if you're just using the white noise, uh uh the ambient white noise of a room that you're in, you know, you've got what's called stochastic resonance. And stochastic resonance is a principle that tells us that there are audio frequencies that are imperceptible to the human ear or to even be picked up by microphones. However, when you add a white noise source to it, it is able to amplify that signal a little bit to where microphones can pick it up, and this is why they think, well, this is what a lot of people think is what's happening to account for how an EVP can happen, EVP electronic voice phenomena, right? Meaning you're doing a session, you've got the recorder, you're asking questions, you don't hear anything in real time, but when you play it back, the answer is there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And so the stochastic stochastic resonance, again, for any of our musicians out there, which you know I got nerdy about this because flutist nerd alert as I push my glasses up. Um, but anyway, it it's essentially it's talking about like the overtones in the sound, right? And so if you are a musician or if you've ever been around, you know, musical instruments or live music, things like that, there will be times where you hear them like playing a note or playing a chord or something, but you hear the overtones in the sound, right? Because these different frequencies, when they all meet, it will allow the human ear to hear. And these overtones, they're naturally there. However, in certain environments, or unless certain frequencies are present, we're not going to be able to hear them.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's a good point to bring up that we actually have not discussed uh enough about it. It is something though that is a real thing um speaking on musicians. So people that are putting on concerts at at halls, like classical music concerts. Um a lot of people don't know this, but prior to the show going on.
SPEAKER_03And this is just giving giving you a little background shout out. You went to school for audio engineering.
SPEAKER_01For audio engineering. But people will go into these halls where they're gonna have these these concerts, concertos, right?
SPEAKER_03Um Well, that's a specific type of thing.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Well, I wanted the sound.
SPEAKER_03There may or may not be a concerto.
SPEAKER_01Uh well, I just fucked that up. Anyway, so what they'll do though, this is interesting, this is really interesting. They will go into the hall before the the the show and they will pump it full of pink noise. What that's doing is getting rid of excess vibrations from other things or deadening the sound in there through their pink noise to make it sound better when the when the players play. So that's pink noise.
SPEAKER_03Get those old waves out of there.
SPEAKER_01Because what you've got, you've got white noise, pink noise, and brown noise. Okay, and white noise is essentially so if you were to turn on an old television, you've got the the radio, the snow, the static, you know, if you turn on a radio in between stations, you hear static, that's white noise. White noise encompasses all frequencies in the spectrum, okay? Uh essentially all at once. Pink noise is essentially a muffled, not muffled, um a muffled version of that, right? It's it's and then you got brown noise, which is uh even more muffled than pink noise. But white noise, why we use that in what we're talking about is because of all the frequencies that it encompasses in its noise, so that these beings, again, we'll call them that for lack of a better term, can essentially, we think the theory is use those frequencies to turn that into audible sound for us, which is why when you typically hear these voices, they don't sound incredibly human. There's that mechanical aspect, that robotic aspect, and that's interesting to me because when we talk about whatever it is that we're communicating with, clearly they're not sitting here with us with vocal cords like we have, putting out vibrations like our voices do for our ears to then pick up. So it's this seems to be this different way of going about it, which leads to this mechanical sound.
SPEAKER_03Right, which I just also think is something that not many people sit and actually do take the time to think about. Like, dude, if there are ghosts, okay, like we die and then we're walking around, like they're not gonna have, first of all, vocal cords, but like eyeballs, ears, which like if you think about how those things work on a human, you know, like rods and cones, baby, and our eyes, you know, and that's how like our it's going to our brain, and we're basically trans. What's the word I'm looking for? I don't know, turning that into an image, but your brain is like doing all of that work, you know. But like a ghost, they're not translating. Yeah, that's the word. That's the word I'm looking for. Thanks. Thanks, bruv. Um but anyway, you know, and so same thing with our hearing, it's kind of like translating those sound waves, right? Um for us, but like a ghost in the the sense of the word that most people are thinking of it, right? You know, a dead person that's walking around, like they're not gonna have that.
SPEAKER_01Well, and that really like how's that work? Well, that takes us to, you know, a piece of this that I think is part of this conversation, honestly, is the psychic component.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I guess this can bring us into, you know, something that we've talked about a lot lately, and again, kind of based on the more that we're experimenting with things and doing things and and thinking about these things and researching these things. Um we've kind of gotten it to this you often refer to it as the triangle, right? Of like it's kind of a a combination of whatever it is, it's a monogall. It's an entity spirit, yeah. Uh-huh. With us and like that psychic component and being tapped into that, and then also the device that we're using, the communication device.
SPEAKER_01And I call it like a triangle because at the top of the triangle, let's say is source, right? Let's say it's the network, let's say whatever it is, whatever we're tapping into. Yeah. And then on the left bottom point is gonna be us. On the right bottom point is gonna be the technology and the triangle, since it's connected, flowing through up and down and rife left and right up and down, is this connection between us, the technology we're using, and of course the being or the source or the network that we are tapped into. That's why I'm referring to it as this triangle.
SPEAKER_03So we uh we are all the medium.
SPEAKER_01This is very important. I I do want to touch on this because part of the RGO podcast, you know, one of the big things we do here is is try to showcase uh your um uh techniques and your sort of uh mediumship uh abilities, which is something that both of us understand everyone has the ability to tap into. Some people are just more naturally can do it without trying and everything else. But regardless, that component is so important. This is why those of you that have listened to us for a long time have heard me uh sometimes off and on talk about how I think if we ever got to a point where the human uh component of the planet was gone and it was just all AI and run by AI, would there still be this connection to source or the network or call it ghost?
SPEAKER_03And kind of like the if a tree falls in the forest and nobody's there to hear it, did it actually? Make a sound.
SPEAKER_01Right. So that's an interesting thing to think about. But that psychic component is there, and I want everyone to understand that, in my opinion, because w when we are making contact with these things, even on a basic level, you go into a haunted location, you hear that bang on the wall, right? You know, you have to wonder, is that happening in that location when nobody is there observing, when there's no cameras there observing, when there's nothing there observing it? Um, and I think it takes us, I think it takes that psychic component that's kind of going off on the tangent, but I think it's important to add to this this conversation.
SPEAKER_03So the um so going back to the the modulation and you know our thoughts on this, uh, do you want to give a little bit of background just for the people for anybody who wants to dig into this type of research? Because we are definitely I feel like at this point, um, you know, we just recently did our our thing at City Alchemist, which shout out to City Alchemist Alexis. We love them so much. We love them very much. Um we did one of their witch gatherings and we did Estes Method, and he he referred to us as Estes Method Specialist, um, which I was like, wow, I feel so like important and cool, you know. Like we have a specialty.
SPEAKER_01But I guess we are special, specialish, estus, god damn it. I'm trying to combine the two.
SPEAKER_03You were trying to do something there, and it was not, it was not doing it. Nope, it's staying in. Um, but anyway, I mean that really is true though. Like that is our medium of choice. And even with, you know, you're talking about the Estus method.
SPEAKER_01That's our medium of choice.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, doing well, doing Estus and like spirit box communication. You're my medium of choice. Oh, thanks. Well, I mean, you are here, so that you get what you get and you don't throw a fit. Yeah. And you got me, you get fucked. Um But anyway, you know, doing doing that, the spirit communication via these things like the spirit boxes, radios, whatever. That that really is our our method of choice. And also the way that we've been, we have been experimenting a lot with that in terms of using that as the mediumship aspect, if you will, versus doing the traditional walk, right? Because, you know, as as we all know, that's what everybody does, right? You go do your walk and it's on all the fucking TV shows and everybody does it, which is like cool.
SPEAKER_01That stuck with us uh recently. It was Lordez uh from the Digital Seance Experience. We had them on the Parapeculiar Podcast, and she said something, kind of profound.
SPEAKER_03Go listen to that episode.
SPEAKER_01So called the the computer the medium. The medium, yeah. Didn't she? Yeah. And and it was interesting to me because there was that again, that component, like the medium becomes the technology because through you and your connection to that technology with that connection solidified by whatever the source, the network, it is, it's using this sort of energy path.
SPEAKER_03Like a little energy little energy circuit. Yeah. Um but anyway, uh, can we talk a bit about just give kind of a quick overview in in terms of like who Bocce is and his work with the radios? Because I also do think that that's very interesting. Like, you know, mentioned earlier, not many people in the paranormal world are familiar with that type of research.
SPEAKER_01And we'll talk about why that is, but it's interesting to go back a little bit before Bocce. So when we talk about uh EVP phenomena or you know direct response phenomena, um, I believe the first one to capture what you'd call an EVP was a group of monks that were doing their thing and doing some chants, you know, recording that and something had come back on their on their recording. I think that was the very first time.
SPEAKER_03And then from there you've got a Which is interesting because hold on, the music nerd in me, I love a Gregorian chant. Okay, but anyway, um it's interesting because if you think about monks recording, they would be recording Gregorian chant, they're gonna be in something that's very echoey, and they are singing these harmonies, these intervals that are in fact, it is going to create a lot of overtones, and that's stochastic resonance.
SPEAKER_01It's worth noting when they're doing something like that, they are in a almost like is it a meditative state? I guess like they're in a spiritual state. Yeah, so that connection is all there, and then from there, there's a story, and I'd have to dive more into this. And if you're a part of our Patreon and you want to know more about this, I'll I'll I'll put the materials I have in that. Uh so join our Patreon. But there was Patreon.com priest who was getting these things before anybody, um, which I think is interesting. And I think I think don't quote me on this. I will dive into this, but I think there was some kind of a scandal between the church and this person because of that.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, this is this is ringing a faint bell.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Like ding.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. So anyway, we would have to Google that for email. We'll look through our materials.
SPEAKER_01We're gonna look through the paralybrary and we'll we'll put that there if you want. But then so the big one though, that no Nicole just mentioned is a fellow named Marcello Bacci, and this was gonna be back in the 1970s, I believe, in Italy. This cat was he was using old tube radios, and he would once a week meet up uh in his community there, some little village in Italy.
SPEAKER_03And this is, mind you, just a normal dude. Yeah, like not into paranormal, not an investigator, not doing any of that.
SPEAKER_01Well, no, and we're gonna touch on that, but he would go once a week, no charge, by the way, this is important, to run these sessions, and anyone in the town was able to come and and and watch. So what was happening was they were all showing up, these people in the town. He's running, he was doing this uh manually scanning through his tube radio on the shortwave band there, and getting these responses that are so utterly profound. It made my head spin the first time I ever uh saw it. Because there are video clips of this, which we'll we'll tell you how to go watch here. But um, the people from the town were getting their dead loved ones to come through while Marcello was was running the radio. Not only that, and you see this on these videos, they're having apportations just happen in the room. Coins and pebbles. I don't know why it's always coins and pebbles, but it is uh and glass, right? Coins, pebbles, glass. Those are like the three things to apport. Um but he's running these sessions, but here's where it gets interesting. So he's getting these dire, not EVPs, he's getting direct responses. So direct radio voices, meaning as he's there manning the radios, asking questions, these voices are coming through. Yeah, and the people that would show up to this are like, okay, that's my dead, you know, uh relative, whatever, and they would answer these questions and everything else. And again, it's worth noting this wasn't something that he would like charge people to come see or whatever, he was just doing it. And so then the skeptics come. Oh okay, and and and and as well, they should. Here's where it gets good. This is where it gets good, in my opinion. So they would come, they did everything to discredit this. They they uh they took the tubes out of his radios, voices still came through, they unplugged his radios, the voices were still coming through on the unplugged device. What's interesting is it only would work if Marcello was uh manning the radio, if he was operating it. This is interesting.
SPEAKER_03That triangle connection for you.
SPEAKER_01Because I think a lot of people are gonna hear that and go, oh, that must mean he's doing something nefarious. Well, let's just stop for a moment because again, you have all these skeptics that came in, they were trying all these things, taking the tubes out, unplugging the radios. It was always working, but it would not work unless Marcello was in there doing it. Let's fast forward to Frank Sumption. Those of you that know anything about it.
SPEAKER_03Frank's box. Well, so we all know the spirit box. That's one of my bucket list items.
SPEAKER_01Well, we can get uh Chad, the Ghost Geek, to make us one.
SPEAKER_03Well, no, I want an LinkedIn Frank's box.
SPEAKER_01Hello, Chris Moon. Yeah. Help us out. Um here's the deal. And we have the schematics for the original Frank's box. I actually do want to have one built, but they are essentially just the PSP 7. Okay, so Frank Sumption was the OG Spirit Box. Well, Frank Sumption was attempting to contact not ghosts, aliens. Okay. And he was a radio expert and he was experimenting with getting these voices, and after years of not getting any responses, okay, which by the way, we'll talk about this too. It takes that, and you've seen how much I've done this. Like it takes over.
SPEAKER_03Practice makes perfect.
SPEAKER_01But he was getting the these downloads of how to make this and using the sweeping function that you hear on a ghost box, a spirit box, which is essentially just breaking the radio to do that automatic sweep. And they were telling him they can use that, uh, those voice fragments, speech fragments to modulate and give voices. And that's why he made you know this this this this thing. But but the reason I bring him up is when he made the Frank's box, same story, it wouldn't work unless he was using it. Okay, so there's this weird psychic connection. Previous to him, you had something called Spiracom. This this gentleman had made this device using like white noise and things like that, and these responses would come through. Same thing with the Spiracom. People would notice that unless you know he, the inventor, was operating it, it wasn't gonna work. So there's that there's that psychic component. For Marcello Bocci, anyone listening, there is, and it is so interesting that there is no, there's not a lot of info on this story, and it's funny because I bet if the skeptics had come in and found that he was fraudulent, you would hear about this story all over the place.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, I think so. Okay, if if this is something that you're interested in, definitely go over to Par the Pear Peculiar Podcast and listen to the interview that we did recently with the digital seance experience.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Ron and Lori.
SPEAKER_03We do go into it a bit more there. And I believe, again, I have, you know, five-minute memory span, so don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure he had mentioned that towards the end of his life, there were there was, you know, a couple sus things, but we he talks about it more.
SPEAKER_01I talk about that too in in how that can happen sometimes, and we do talk about it on that episode. And what we will do actually, after we are done recording this, uh, if you can text me as a reminder, I will go find the documentary, the Marcello Bocci documentary, and I'll just post it uh in our Patreon because there's one documentary you can find on this guy, and it's in Italian, okay? So you gotta watch it with subtitles, but it's just insane because it's got video clips of these sessions, and you hear these voices coming through. Now, look, if you don't speak Italian, it's gonna sound muddled.
SPEAKER_03But it has the subtitles.
SPEAKER_01But it's got the yeah, exactly. It's got the subtitles, and you see all these people, these Italian people like hearing these voices come through like, oh, you know, and it's wild. So to watch that documentary, I think is something that everyone should do. We'll post on our Patreon. That's Marcello Bacci. Okay, again, remember Frank Sumption, the Frank's box turns into the ghost box, remember Spiricom, and of course, all the way up to Ron and Lordez, who did the digital seance experience, and they were using something called Staticom.
SPEAKER_03And and and still we're not even talking about uh, you know, mentioning a couple of bruvs that are much smarter than both of us combined and will ever be. Who the fuck is smarter than us? Thomas Edison and his spirit phone or ghost radio or whatever, and then Tesla. Nicola Tesla.
SPEAKER_01So the the Edison thing is interesting because uh uh you're talking about these inventors, these great inventors who were most certainly tapped into the network, okay? Like most certainly tapped into the network. Nikola Tesla and Edison, all these guys, they were around during the the the heyday of uh the spiritualist movement. We were just talking about that uh last night because we do have a spiritualist church here in Austin. But this was during that movement, and Nikola Tesla actually thought uh he had made something that is now referred to as the the the Tesla Spirit Radio. It's basically just a crystal radio, but he was hearing things that were coming through that he thought were from extraterrestrial beings.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and it's it's I think I do think that that point is interesting too, that a lot of these things, when they were originally made, it was for extraterrestrial communication.
SPEAKER_01Interdimensional, these other type of beings that I think a lot of these old inventors understood this idea of the network or the cloud or source or this other area.
SPEAKER_03So I think in whatever manner they would have referred to it.
SPEAKER_01Right, exactly. So I think when they would hear these things, that would be the thing. So they were all like really interested in using technology as a way to communicate with whatever this is. So uh uh there was gonna be the Edison's uh spirit phone, I believe it was gonna be called. Now, he said that he had had an idea of it and he was gonna make it and that he was sure it was gonna allow you know communication. That invention never came to light. And there are no patents, there's no there's no schematics around showing exactly what he was gonna use.
SPEAKER_03It's a bit um gray area in terms of that, because there's the you know, the story that he had like written it down, whatever, and then after he passed, um, you know, somebody took the secret notebooks and it's hiding by the bigger. They should do whatever, you know. Should be about getting the spirit of phone, yeah. Well, there's also the one that we saw recently too about um so I forget who it was made by or whatever.
SPEAKER_01Um, but that like the Vatican took it and it it's a lot of the uh the the the time machine television thing. Yeah, that would they apparently saw the crucifixion of Christ on it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that would that was showing them different like periods of time. We'll post about that too on the Patreon.
SPEAKER_01It's a cool device that apparently is in the Vatican. Uh who knows?
SPEAKER_03Weird things.
SPEAKER_01But anyway, so that's kind of the I guess big picture overview of you know what we're meaning and um Well it is, but can we also just address really quick how you had mentioned that these people that were talking about doing this work, um, because you've also got in the modern times, Annabella Cardosa. Uh she she's doing this ITC work currently and she's got three books out, I believe, on the subject.
SPEAKER_03And she, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but m Mar uh Marcello Boggi had mentored her, right?
SPEAKER_01I don't know that she I don't know that that I that I I couldn't tell you.
SPEAKER_03But I know she she did mentor um the guy that we talked to for the digital science experience.
SPEAKER_01So it's kind of you know, and she's wonderful the ITC lineage. All these people that are doing this though, you made this point, they're not really in the paranormal community. And why is that? Well, it's because they are more focused and interested in the phenomena itself versus uh whoring out the phenomena and making it this like jump scare, you know, TV show.
SPEAKER_03Right. And this is, you know, something that I don't know if I've talked about on RGO before, but it's something I've had this conversation before with Greg Lawson, our good friend. Um and talking about how oftentimes, especially in the paranormal, when you look at, you know, a lot of people that are consuming the content, it's more so like they're looking for a scary story or you know, a spooky story versus not necessarily caring about what the truth necessarily is. And we find this so often, especially, you know, when we go to the locations and you know, the history's all convoluted or it ends up being, okay, well, most of this actually isn't true. It's just the crap that people are passing down over the years and talking about, you know, um, which is why I'm so big on like, no, I I do care what the truth is, and I want to go down the rabbit hole and find out what the actual history is, like as much as we possibly can. But it's, you know, I think there is a big divide in in this space in terms of people who are just like, and there's nothing wrong with either side, but if you're just there for, you know, you just want to get scared, whatever, like, cool, like there's plenty of horror movies, you know, there's there's lots of ways we can do that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I do understand it. I've I've been a little um shitty towards those people, uh, you know, publicly. And I know sometimes I will talk and and say things, but look, at the end of the day, you know, it doesn't matter uh if if that's how you view this and we disagree with you, whatever, like none of that matters because we don't know what the fuck we're talking about either.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, nobody knows what the fuck they're talking about.
SPEAKER_01Edit that out, by the way. Edit that out, by the way. Yeah, I didn't say that. Uh that was possession. Um Well, I mean, it's true though. I know, it is, and it is. And we we look, we are both, we are history girlies. It was the only, it was the only like class in school that I enjoyed growing up. Um, but it like to your point, uh, this convolution of the of the history. I think you gotta take so many things with a grain of salt in this in this realm.
SPEAKER_03Um Well, yeah, for sure. But yeah, and I mean there, you know, again, there's like there's no right or wrong on what you're you're in it for. But I think that that goes to, you know, like some of these people like uh Annabella Cardoza, right? Um, you know, and why they're kind of they don't necessarily say like, oh, I'm a paranormal investigator, I'm a paranormal researcher. You know, they kind of like they have their lane and they're in it, and that's more so what they're doing versus I think a lot of the paranormal, and we even see this like let's just be real here. Like if you go scroll on YouTube, like it's all like everything has gotten increasingly clickbaity, and yeah, you know, everything's like we spend the night in the demon house. Yeah, the night, the night I almost got murdered by a demon or whatever. You know, it's very sensationalized and they're not. The night the demon touch my special place. Like they're doing it for the story, they're doing it for the clicks, you know, and like sure that like obviously it works because they're making millions of dollars from YouTube and we're not. So you know, like we're over here like hey, but it's gonna get a P.O. box on the shit. Like, good for them, you know, but I'm just for them, but look, it's not my personal jam. I I care personally, I care more about the the truth. Yeah, well, and like the real history, not just a story for content.
SPEAKER_01It sounds like I get a little salty about that. I do because when we're talking about uh anything of a spiritual nature, um it is so wildly important and life-changing to people, and it's very easy, very easy, even if you're not trying to, I think in a lot of ways, to scam people because of their belief in spirituality and what they want to feel is where their loved ones are and where they're gonna go when they uh uh you know eventually die. And I have a real problem with that. I uh taking advantage of that.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, I mean, of course. And it is very like, in my opinion, like communication, spirit communication, whatever form you're doing it, you know, whether I'm doing like a reading or a you know, a walk of a location or even Estes or whatever the form of communication is, like to me, I I'm approaching that with so much respect. And, you know, it's it's it is like a spiritual experience because you're you're especially when you're doing a reading for another person, you know, like that's such an honor that it's like, damn, like you trust me, like you want me to like make contact and be able to like deliver these mess, you know, allow these to come through.
SPEAKER_01It's worth noting for not something to be taken lightly that are listening, like and I've I've obviously I have the the benefit of uh of of living with you. So I've I've seen you when you do these readings for people, like before the reading, you're like, I just want to make sure that I do the right thing for them, and you're very like caught up in that in them, in that person versus yourself.
SPEAKER_03And well, yeah, and I usually even tell people because it is it is very it's very rare that I will do readings for people and you've seen mediumship readings. Like I'll do psychic readings, those are fine, but mediumship readings, um, it's very rare that I will do them. It's pretty much like a only when people will ask me. But even when they when they do ask me, I'm always up front, like, hey, like, you know, let's start with 30 minutes because I obviously like I can't guarantee if anybody's gonna come through, who's coming through around that, like if we get to that point, um, if it's going well and you want to continue on, we can make that decision at that time.
SPEAKER_01Versus sitting down and being like, okay, I've got your dead grandma coming to me now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and there's a there there definitely is a period, you know, in the beginning, like we ground in together, and um, you know, I have them kind of set that intention of like inviting them in, giving them permission to like uh talk to me, you know.
SPEAKER_01It's so then question for you in those instances where it's you and I'm gonna call them your sitter, right? Um, would you say that our triangle theory is uh in effect because you've got the triangle at top, you've got source, down here to the left is you, on the right is the sitter. Yes. And they're absolutely they are the basically the technology in that instance that you're connecting with. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Yes, definitely.
SPEAKER_01It's interesting. I think it's I think it's an interesting way to put it that I think a lot of people don't uh talk about when they talk about mediumship. I think a lot of people, what I respect about you and a lot of the people that we run around is you don't make it about you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I hear a lot of mediums that are oh, me, me, me, me, me, me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, you hear me say this every time. I'm like, dude, I'm not doing shit. Like my job is get get my my own stuff out of the way. And so that way I can I can receive and be able to accurately So you're like a dongle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Essentially. Yeah. Technology.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, so anyway, so yeah, all that to say, I mean, is there anything else that you can think of? I just really want to, I thought it was important to talk for for RGO to yeah, like talk about the importance of this and you know how our thinking on these things have changed at the deeper down the rabbit hole that we've gotten.
SPEAKER_01I think there's one more thing to touch on though, to to to your question about what this is one thing that this diving into this world, because again, ITC work uh is something that that is the the bread and butter of how you and I communicate. We mix that technology with your technology and we're we're With source.
SPEAKER_03But um what my technology, my brain. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, no, your spirit, you know. Um we get your brain out of the way because what we do is we use that well, again, technology like our mind machine, we put you in a state where your brain is out of the way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, but I think what altered brain weaves are. What's really important here, something that all this work has shown me, and I believe has shown you, and I really want to convey to people that listen is I've uh now have this understanding after doing this for so long, uh, and successfully in many ways, that you don't need to go to a haunted location to get this activity. It's everywhere. You can sit down in your kitchen uh and maybe for listeners, I recommend you do this. Sit down with a recorder and just talk and then listen back, see if you get responses. And you might. Um but you don't have to go and if you want to dive into this and experiment with it, you don't have to go to a haunted location. You can do it at home.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And it's um funny because we've even talked to people.
SPEAKER_01Let's give a warning real quick. I'm sorry, I don't mean to cut you off, but we've got to give them a warning. I I just this just hit me in the head. Like, yes, you can do this at home, but be careful because we also do this at home and we have definitely haunted our shit.
SPEAKER_03It's like sending up a bat signal. I personally would not recommend doing it inside of your house. Um unless you like, if you really want to haunt your house and you definitely want to have shadow figures in your house, maybe watching you while you sleep, like, then absolutely do it. Um we sleep. I mean, how many times have we we seen them? Well, I mean, it's been all over the house though, to be honest. Everybody sees them all over the house.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So, anyways.
SPEAKER_01That's gonna be the next haunt hunch puppies episode. We gotta talk about um stuff like that. And I just I just I've lost my train of thought, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, now we both have the glazed over, blank eyes stare, so we're A D D. So that that's that's the episode. Um that's the episode. I just I just wanted to have something on here where we we explain it a bit more. And you know, I do think that it is important to talk about, you know, how our thinking on these things is evolving. Um because I do think that that's important too. Like in any, no matter what industry you're in, like you should always be learning, always be researching, always be, you know, talking to other people, which is one of the reasons why I do love having, you know, parapeculiar in the format that it is with doing interviews with, you know, all of these different people and people who are at the top of their fields. And, you know, that is so interesting because now we're we're getting all of this knowledge, and then we get to go put it into action by doing the investigations that we do and getting the experience. And you know, you it's just any industry, like you should be doing those things. And as we know, it is it is a sign of intelligence to be able to and you can uh you know hear that change your mind and you know, showing that growth and that evolution. So you can hear that we will continue taking you along that uh ride with us.
SPEAKER_01Well, you can hear that on the Haunted Hushpups episodes because those episodes are essentially us sitting down, hitting record, no rhyme or reason to it, but it's us like evolving.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, we and I mean we literally I think about so often, you know, we both have shit on the apps so much. So much. Um but now we're we're starting getting getting to points where, you know, with the way that we're thinking about these things, and okay, well, maybe it's just manipulating the technology. So, like, okay, well then why can't the app work?
SPEAKER_01Well, let's let's leave that cliphanger because as listeners, if you want us to do an episode like this where we talk about the apps that we like and why we like them and how we use them and what we think of the apps in general, let us know. Maybe we'll do an episode and talk about that. You know, let us know. We probably I mean, we probably just should. I'm just trying to get people to engage with us for fuck's sake.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, just send us emails.
SPEAKER_01You know, send us something.
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, which reminds me after we hit stop, I will get a P.O. box. So then I should maybe be able to list it. Um unless I have to go to the post office. But I think last time I looked, I can just get it online. But I don't know. Use the triangle. Um go can I? Anyway, um, so I'll do that. So maybe it will be listed below. So if you, you know, have things you want to, you know, that are haunted that you wanna want to go to the museum and you're like, I'm sick of this shit.
SPEAKER_01Or if you have an item that's causing you issues that you want to hear us talk about on here and look at and experiment with and you want to send us, send us snail mail.
SPEAKER_03I love snail mail.
SPEAKER_01We do love snail mail.
SPEAKER_03Um I love snails. Or send, you know, send if you find a ghost dog toy that you want to send to the pear pup.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I see a ghost dog toy.
SPEAKER_03The pear pup, yeah. Um, but anyway, okay, so that's the episode. Thanks for talking about that with me.
SPEAKER_01Okay, well, goodbye, everybody.
SPEAKER_03All right, bye.
SPEAKER_00If you enjoy following along our investigations, consider joining our Patreon. You can find that at patreon.com backslash para peculiar.
SPEAKER_03And a huge shout out to Dr. Angela Glestro, who composed all of our original music for The Real Ghost of. If you are interested in getting any music for your own show, film, whatever, you can find her on Instagram and check her out there at Angela Glestro.