What does it really take to compete in hyrox at a high level? ft athlete Matthew Plowman

In this episode, we're joined by Matt Plowman, a financial adviser, HYROX coach and one of the UK's fastest rising athletes in the sport. Matt shares how he went from playing cricket and lifting weights to running sub-60 pro times, the mindset behind his training, and why getting fitter - not just working harder - is the key to improving.

We also dive into the biggest talking points in HYROX, including the new Elite 15 qualification system, the controversy around World Championship qualification, race strategy, coaching, recovery, and what the future of the sport looks like as standards continue to rise.

Whether you're preparing for your first HYROX or chasing an Elite 15 spot, this episode is packed with practical advice, honest opinions and insights from someone living and breathing the sport.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the podcast. This is now episode nine, and we have a very, very exciting guest today, Matt Ploughman. That's me. Yeah, that's him. I just had to check his name. I said, is it plowman or plowman? Um, but yeah, for everyone that's watching, tell us a little bit about yourself. So obviously you're massively into high rocks, but we'd love to know more about you.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Yeah, I love high rocks. Um, yeah, my name's Matt. I am 33 years old. I'm from Matt, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Babyface. I have a babyface.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Yeah, babyface Matt. Um I'm from East Devon, down in Exeter Way, but I went to university in Cardiff and just never left. Yeah. Um did you meet you met your partner though, right? Met my partner in the gym, yeah. A few years ago in Cardiff. She's also not from Cardiff, so we're two two English people living in Wales. Um, what else about me?

SPEAKER_00 0:54

How come you decided to stay in Wales? Just work or um just liked it there.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Bit of a long story. I was meant to I was you used to play a lot of cricket. Uh and I was gonna move to Australia. Well, I was meant to move to Australia to play cricket, and I didn't. Uh so I moved back home for about three months, and then it was my parents, they said stop being a bum. Yeah, and uh I moved back to Cardiff, had no job, and what like 15, 10 years later, I'm still there. But it's from from being in like yeah, how long have you been in Cardiff for then? So when I graduate, I graduated in 2014, so I've like lived there properly for 12 years.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Wow, wow, I did not know that. I thought you may have been there for like three years a long time.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

I just try and go home whenever I can to make sure I don't have a uh Welsh accent. Not that there's anything wrong with Welsh.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

I said to Greg, where's he from? And he's a Cardiff, but he's not Welsh, and I don't know where he's actually from.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Yeah, it's it's quite a big um like down in Extic, it's Bristol's not far enough away so everyone goes to Cardiff because you can still go home and see your family in like an hour and a half, but then you're in a big city. Yeah, of course. There's loads of people from like uh like home that live in Cardiff, which is quite cool. Um so yeah, I live in Cardiff. Uh I'm a financial advisor, um, but I also coach hierarchics in the gyms. Nice in the gym I go to first thing every morning. Um do you love that? I do, yeah. It's like uh yeah, I do really enjoy coaching. I never thought I did um until I did it, and I definitely prefer the face-to-face like group style coaching. Good feeling, isn't it? It is a really good feeling, like we were just saying then. I'm not a an early doors guy, so seeing people like getting at it at 6 30 in the morning and like I'd go and train straight after.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Yeah, so it's probably already gives you like that buzz, gives you that high.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

If they've just done it, you can do it. You can do it an hour later, get it done. Um so do that off to work for the day, and then I tend to come back and train again in the evenings. Um and yeah, I love Hyrocks, have done for about a year and a half.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Yeah, because I'm actually met you in Malaga, not that I remember too much, I remember seeing your face and I remember saying a few words. Obviously, we sent it after. I mean, the thing is after a high rocks, you usually sort of send it, depending if you've got an event the other one. You need to celebrate. You need to celebrate, yeah. Um, but I met you at a bar. I think you were with your partner and friends.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

We were in a bar, yeah. So I went with I'd booked a mate's trip to Malaga to do high rocks. Same as us, pretty much. Without telling my partner, and then Rachel and came with, but luckily, like there were loaded. So there was a big group of us, yeah, and yeah, I think as you said, we were all sending it, weren't we? And then we bumped into each other.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Yeah, and then we were all in awe of him. He was like, Yeah, I just did a just did a solo, and then I think you got like sub hour.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

I think, yeah, it was my second or second ever solo. Yeah, I ran like a 59.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Yeah, and I've just come out with my cousin, obviously. We're trying to get sub-hour for ages. I was like, Yeah, I got 58, and he's like, Oh yeah, I just did singles. That was ages ago. That was March 25.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah, yeah, March last year. Yeah, March last year. So we met then, and then I think we bumped into each other and put you in Cardis, yeah, saw you there. And then thankfully, my dad, uh Yeah, the legend, the Rogus man. This this is so funny. We went to Berlin this well, last month now, wasn't it? And I my dad came out of me and Gregor was out with Jordan, and we were warming up, and I could see my dad talking to you.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah, and we had not clicked on who it is, and I just thought, oh, this random English guy.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

But at this point, I don't think we said hello or even knew. Yeah, I spoke to you at the plane on the plane. Oh yeah, yeah, and I thought, what is going on? Like, he'll have no idea who you are, but I'm also well aware, like, he's of that generation where he'll just talk to anyone and say anything. Yeah, and I think his words are something like, Are you his bitch for the weekend? Yeah, and and not as that, happen to be in the same heat, so the whole race, my dad and Gregor were just chatting around.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

And uh we were just bottling around, chatting to each other, but we literally it was at one thing I would say, it was like my dad. Like it was I remember saying to you, I was like, and I said to you, I was like, it was like spending the whole day with my dad, like the the way is like his aura and the mannerisms and stuff and his humour was just like my dad. It was hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

And then we literally just washed our faces and we're like, right, we're we're going into town for a few beers, we're getting the flight back tonight, and you were like so weak. So we all met together, we had some food, and then we just had a few beers today, and then we got the flight back in the night.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

So saw the Bayern Munich bus, didn't we? Was it Bayern Munich?

SPEAKER_01 5:40

No, it was Bayern Munich, yeah. So yeah, he had the I rang him the next morning, he's like, Oh, it's such a good day, and he's just kept him. They were just they were just such down to earth lovely guys.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

I need to see him again. He's funny. Does he really go to Istanbul? Because you're thinking about doing that one.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

I'm gonna do Athens. Are you?

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Istanbul, from my understanding, everyone's going to Istanbul. Oh, really? Yeah, and I don't want the same mistakes as last year. No, yeah. So I'm thinking Athens is the first Greece. It's the first Greek one. I love Greece. Yeah. So I'm thinking of go doing like a three four-day trip to Athens. It's the same weekend as Tanerife, so it's like the 5th of September.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

And there is flights from Bristol. That's going to come around quick. I bet it's cheap as well. It's not cheap. Is it not flights? Because it's still technically, I guess, summer, isn't it? Oh yeah. So that's about 300 quid. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Yeah, we just paid that for we were Calamarca. Which is like three hours north or west of Athens.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

It's south, I think.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Nah. It's maybe south, I don't know. I'm not very into all my geography. But yeah. It's pretty pretty north. Yeah. Maybe but it's like Is it an island? No, it's not, it's on the mainland. It's literally like right in the middle.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Maybe it's not.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

I don't know, but I've never ever been there in my life. And the airport that we went to, no, Kalamata.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

Kalamata.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Kalamata. Oh, so nice. I love Greece. My parents are there at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Oh, they're 10 days, like the same 10 days every year. Yeah. It's just like you can't beat it to be fair. As much as I love the gym and I love my job and I'm always driven. Like sometimes I I go to Greece and I think, oh, let's just like pick olives for a year.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Yeah, yeah. It's so nice there.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Um so yeah, Athens is probably the next. The next one. And then Oslo. Is it Oslo? Yeah. Just gonna do like a bunch of races.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

I actually just don't know. Like, there's so many races coming out, and I'm like, don't know which one to do. I know. I'm actually really overwhelmed with it. Not yet. Birmingham.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

You've got Birmingham.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

No, I haven't booked it, no, but I will. I think it's like a I think I'm gonna try and be clever this year and do like a bunch of races, then train. Yeah. A bunch of races. I think last year I got really it was my first full year into it, and I just got really excited and just booked, but and there was kind of no planning to it. So I think this year is like do like a bunch of races in September, then do another block. Accumulate some like points and then do like a block and then do like a December block races.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

See the areas that you need to work on, exactly. Yeah, and then do it again. Yeah, that's a good idea, and hopefully pick races where and I think as well, like I think when you just do one race and then have like a two-month break, you just build up so much like fear and like anxiousness. But if you just do like you do one, if I do one, I'm like, I want to do that again.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

It's that FOMO, isn't it? Yeah, and like the the the best people are amazing at it, they just go quiet every few months, and like I I think I can do that now, but I was just getting so much like oh do another one, I'll do it because that feeling when you finish is like there's no better feeling I'll do another one because I think like I could do 20 seconds quicker on that, and oh if I next week if I just run a little bit quicker on there, and then you do it and then you do it, and then you do it, and it's yeah, so yeah, I think it's just be a little bit more professional, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Um obviously, we've had this week World's Elite 15 singles and doubles, doubles was last night crazy. What did you think?

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Mad. There've been some cool, really good races. Yeah, singles was didn't see that, did not see that one coming. No, um that hell of an athlete Dylan Scott, but I just couldn't see anyone beating Alex Ronkovich. No, I think it's an absolute tank there.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

I think where he went wrong, I think he just tried to copy Hunter on the sled push. I think the sled pushes, like we've all done sled push, like to do four lanes unbreaking is just insane. The fact that like Hunter could hold that pace after actually blew my mind. Yeah. Because I push one length of pro and I'm like blows you up. I'm in like insane pain.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

I think he's just like a different beast hunter in terms of like he full sentence from the beginning, but he's been doing it in like multiple sports for years, so I think Alex Ronkefridge has probably been got quite comfortable at running his own race. So I think that just battered him. That did ruin him, didn't it? Yeah, so that was the sled can ruin you like big time. Yeah, I mean, I think what do we say? I think it was Cardiff was the first time I've ever come off the sleds and been like, oh, that's that's that's what that thing is. That is not nice.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Yeah, it's not nice. Um But it takes like 30, 40 seconds to a minute, and then you're sort of back, aren't you? Yeah, but it's like that first.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

That's what I try and say to people when I'm coaching is like it does it's just that lactate buildup, and like the quicker you can run off it, it actually the better it is. But obviously your brain is saying, Oh my god, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. If you can like run that rocks normally, but like it's not only around about 100-200 metres back into the run, you're like your legs just come back, and you think, alright, let's go again. But if you can push through it, but yeah, it's tough. But no, they were they were good races. Um the doubles is always doubles was good, like crazy, crazy.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Didn't it wasn't the outcome that I thought? So I my top three were Hunter and Jake. Um, then I put Ronkevich and Venice Venish, and then I put Jake Didden and James Kelly. But yeah, I don't know what's happened with those two this year.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Yeah, I know. I mean their prime example of like Jack of all trades, like they've both done marathon blocks this season. I think like you it's just gotta be all in the standards have got so high now, and like high rocks is a sport. Yeah, I don't think you can do multiple disciplines. No, um, you can be good, but like I think they've both proven this year, like everyone's gone all in apart from probably those two, yeah. And it's it's kind of shown, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

Um Luke Greer as well, he's up there in both doubles and singles, it's just called.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Yeah, he's come across because he's a really quick runner, isn't he? Mad runner. He runs like a 220-something marathon, um, but he was just off like Maya was quicker than all of them, but he was doing his war balls in like five, six minutes. Yeah, and like now he's getting better and better. I can imagine next season he's gonna be up there again. He's gonna be mega and he's the right shape for it, like he's tall. Yeah. I think if he puts a bit of puts a bit of bulk on, he'll be a serious athlete. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

He's being tall good then.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

I don't it's a very good question. I don't know where I said that. Because I guess for burpees and lunges, you probably want to be shorter. Yeah. Definitely for burpees. Yeah. For warbles, I never I never know for warbles, because for if you're really tall, then you just go. But then you've got a squad. Yeah, yeah. And then you've got like Travis who like just does them rapid and he's he's he's a shorter athlete. But then anyone short, I think if you're short, open is like mega. Yeah. You run really quick open sides. But I don't know anyone probably under six foot who does well in pro. Like look at like they're amazing high-rax athletes, but they just get humbled with the weights. Yeah. Like, 'cause I guess if you're under what like five, eight, five, nine, maybe, like, you're probably struggling to be over eighty kilos about being a little bit too heavy for your size. Yeah. And I do think over you probably I think you do probably need to be over 75 kilos for the pro weight.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

You would actually be perfect for Elite 15. You're so tall.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

Just because of my height. Just for the sled.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

You just get in there. Build the engine.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah. See, I didn't really know what the perfect height is. I'd say for mate, well, the average height for Elite 15 is they did like the averages this year, and it was si I think it was six foot on the door, and then weight was 81 or 82 days. And I'd say that's like the perfect pro athlete like that.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

There's a lot of tall when you look at like people coming in, there's a lot of tall guys.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

But then the girls aren't tall.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Nah, some of them are.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

Are they?

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Yeah, some of them are. I mean, you got um the Australian girl. But she's not sure. I don't know. But she's not sure. I wouldn't say they're short. I'd say Lucy Proxy looks quite short, isn't she? And then Lauren Weeks, I think she's right.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

Maybe height just doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

I don't think height matters. It's that if you're shorter, you're probably lighter. Yeah. Because if you're short, you're gonna and if you're heavy, then you're not gonna have a good power to weight weight ratio. Yeah. Whereas if you're taller, you can hold more weight and distribute it better.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

Yeah, makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yeah. How did you start your high rocks journey? My high rocks journey.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

So before high rocks, I like I said, growing up, I played loads of cricket, loads of football, loads of tennis, just every inch. But you were a runner. I actually wasn't a runner, so I used to do athletics at school. So I'd do like county championships. So I'd run like 200 meters and relay. So I'd do lots of sprinting, but I was never a runner. I used to play centre midfield and football. Oh, so you did a probably so I've run loads. So like it's people always say, What? Like, I'd say my strong point in high rocks is running. Um I've never run more than until last Saturday, I'd never run more than 12k in my life. Really?

SPEAKER_03 15:01

Really?

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Yeah. Um, how was it? Yeah, it's not I love it. I I have a really I have a gammy knee. Um, so I actually can't run more than like 15k. Well, I can, but it would really hurt. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Um, so I when people say Is that like a knee injury from previous sports? Or is it a bigger one?

SPEAKER_01 15:17

I think it started from cricket. Um, I was a bowler, so like landing on my left foot. Um serious impact on that. Serious impact. I think it's like 10 times your body weight goes through like your front knee when you bowl. So I think that made it bad in my teens, but I never realized because I was young and you just get over it. And then I quit sport and just went straight into the gym and started bodybuilding training. Yeah, yeah. And I think then that training legs multiple times a week, it did start getting bad, but because all I cared about was what I looked like then. Yeah, if my knee got bad, I would just train up as three weeks. And your pain would go. Yeah, and then I started playing football and cricket again about three years ago, and then it started faring up again, and then I quit. Uh, and then I went back to just lifting weights, but I'd always lift weights, and then I needed to get like a sweat on to feel like I trained hard. So I'd then like go to the CrossFit area and just do like a couple of rounds on the skierg, or like some rows, or some like dumbbell snatches, or yeah, just to get a little like 10-minute like running and ramp, whatever it was, and then I'd really enjoy it. And I looked at the people doing CrossFit and all my mates did CrossFit and I'm just not flexible. I really struggle to do a burpee broad job, let alone when I see people throwing bar bars over the heads of the heads with snatches, like just and I wouldn't want to regress my training like six months to do like CrossFit fundamentals. So I was like, I'm never gonna do CrossFit, and then I must have been on Instagram and like high rocks came up, must have been about two years ago, and I was like, What's this? And it was like 1k run, waits, 1k run, waits. I was like, oh hello, like this is wicked, yeah. Um but I didn't like kind of get the concept or grasp what it really was because it wasn't really if even like two years ago, like if you were in this space, it was a big thing, but to like us guys who were on socials but not really in high rocks, we probably didn't even know what it was. So I kind of like forgot about it. Um, and then maybe summer 2024, a mate of mine came to me and was like, Oh, have you seen this Hyrux thing? He was like, Oh, should we do Birmingham in Birmingham October 24? So we signed up and did an open doubles and didn't train for it at all. Um, and I was like, I love this, this is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

That's what I mean. You can literally like do one and not even train for it, but completely be obsessed with it.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah, completely so but uh that season I'd played football, so I'd kind of got my like running legs and base endurance back doing that, and I was like, that's insane. So I booked my first open singles in January 25 in Manchester. Um and again I I trained for it, but I still was so obsessed with what I looked like. I still was doing like everything that I tell people not to do, like is what I was doing then. So I was doing like push-pull legs six days a week, and then like half an hour high rocks at the end of every session, and just like just breaks you, and I did an open in that January, and that was when I was like, oh, I really, really like this. Um and then so I think I did a one a 101, yeah. 101 was like my first ever singles, like open singles. Wow. And then I booked Maligar obviously two months later, yeah. And I was still, I think I'd allowed myself to only do like push-pool legs once a week, yeah. And then I was doing high rocks on the side of it, and then we went to Maliger and I ran like a 59 flat, and I was like, right, I think I might be quite good at this. And then I was like, from then on, and then Cardiff was obviously. What did you place with that 59? I think I'm a bit obsessed. We'll move on to that when we come on to this world champs stuff. But like, I'm obsessed with like data, yeah. High rocks of where I like place everything. So I worked out with like a 59, it would have been at that time, like nearly two years ago now, it'd have been first or second in every single high ROX event ever. No way. And uh I I came forth. That's crazy. I remember like getting it and being like, wow, and I was in second place, and Rach and I went down to like the harbour Malago, and we were just like having a coffee, like planning like how we were gonna get on the scooter to go. See the number four pop up, and then two British lads like had been like bumped into the last wave of the day, and they both ran like 57s, which back then was just like insane. And I remember coming forth, and I was like, You couldn't write it, like every high-rucks event ever, and that's kind of been like my that's happened every single race since. Um and yeah, that was that, and then I think Cardiff was in the first one, first one in Cardiff, so it was like home, and that's for like when I really went like all in, all in on it, and then I placed I mean, I came I came third in Cardiff last year, um, and that was it then, and then spent the summer. I was like, right, I'm gonna go all in on high rocks, and this season's been my first like full season of like training for high rocks, doing high rocks, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Um, and that was that. Would you say as well, like having you've got a coach now, and would you say that's changed things massively?

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Yeah, yeah, I would. I think coaches need coaches, and I even like I wouldn't say I'm a coach, but I've trained for so long and like I know what, but I didn't really understand that until I got a coach, and I think a lot of people were saying, Oh, if you want to take it to the next level, you need to get a coach.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Well, like you look at all the Elite 15 and and the people below that, like they've all got coaches, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Everyone's got a coach, whether like who who you use, but like coach I use Adam, like it's yeah, it's been like a game changer for me. I think fundamentally, like how my week setup isn't like hugely different, but it's just little things like never doing like back-to-back really hard days, and it's just having someone overloading accountable, yeah, bad hard days was and like he said, like and he was he's really like straight to the point, he was like, So you know, you've been throwing shit at a wall and it's just stuck so far, but like it's not gonna continue like that if you want to get to the best, and it was so yeah, like having just a good structure, someone that and it's pacing as well for your runs. I think if you're coaching yourself, yeah, you're either if you feel you can be too eager and you can be too eager and set yourself paces too high, or if you're having a bad day, give yourself lower paces. And I think when you self coach as well, you subconsciously, like whether you realise it or not, probably program you stuff that you like, yeah. Whereas when I see some stuff on my plan, I'm like, oh I can't do that, I can't do that, and then you get into it and you start into it and you do it, and then like we all go.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Like when it's on your phone, like you've got to do that. You've got to do it. We've got to tick that off. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

And then you right go on your fitteraph or whatever app you use and you put your note on it and say, like, oh, I didn't think I'd do that. That was madness. So no, I anyone that wants to take it seriously, I yeah, I do think getting a coach is a game changer.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

You can sort of get away with it sort of like in the bodybuilding industry where push-ball legs, anyone can do that, everyone can take themselves to failure, but Hyrux is three different elements to it.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Like it's it's it's really hard. And I think, and also like there was a good podcast the other day I listened to, and it's like when you're self-coached, like 99% of us in this highrock space are a bit tapped. Yeah, yeah. Like we it's not an issue of will we do the session, it's yeah, will you do too many sessions? And I think when you self-coach, you and I I definitely do it, like I chase numbers, like hours I'm training a week, like this, that, like miles a week. So you're like, oh, I feel good, I'll do another session today. And it's like that doesn't work, that doesn't get you better, it just puts you in a bin. And I think when you self-coach, you just you want to do more and more and more, and that's where you get to like the oh dude, I felt great yesterday, so I'll do another hard session today, and then you may feel great for a week, but then that knock-on fatigue may hit you in like three weeks' time, yeah, and then you just like you put yourself into such a bin that you you then start regressing in your training. I think we've seen that a lot personally from like this weekend at Worlds, like a lot of people haven't shown up, um and I can only think like they've just pushed so hard leading up to it, yeah, and then it's just crumbled, just crumbled, yeah. You can that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

What do you think about the new qualification system? So now it's basically points, you rack up points. I think what does first place get in pro?

SPEAKER_01 23:44

First place. So this is for the Elite 15 now, isn't it? Yeah. So first place is 105 points, and then you get so down first to eight overall now, you get a percentage of first place. So if first place did it in 55 minutes and you did it in I don't know, fifty six minutes, you get a percent. So if you were ninety-five percent within ninety-five percent of the time of first place, you'd get ninety-five percent of a hundred and five points, if that makes sense. That's quite clever. It is clever. So you so regard so say first to eight, so first one in fifty-five, and then second to eight, for they all got within like fifty-six minutes. It's not fair that the second gets almost double the pointer when they only won by ten seconds. Yeah. So they may all get pretty much the same amount of points. That's quite good. Whereas if first got a fifty-five, second got a fifty-six, and then eighth place got one oh one.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Then the second place should obviously get a lot more points. So it's done on the percentage of how close they were. That's quite clever.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

I didn't actually realise that. Yeah, it's it is really good. That's I seem that's quite fair, but I just think it's so unfair that even now I've got to throw even more money at it. I know, so what is it?

SPEAKER_01 25:02

It's five races, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Um you have to have done five races.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Yeah, you you get it's your maximum points out of five. Right. Over a year.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

So And then what do you get to win something?

SPEAKER_01 25:15

So you then so say so so the first major is in end of October on this cruise. Yeah. So the top 15. Oh, so do you think it's actually gonna be on a cruise on the cruise? So it's on the cruise. There is one on the cruise, yeah. But they're docking at Barcelona. So the the Elite 15 are gonna be actually but the actual race will be on the cruise.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

So I can imagine it'd be one of those cruises that's got like a running track.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

That's crazy. That is mad. Like, yeah. Weird concept. So so yeah, so say that's the first major. So if, for example, you'd only run so from the 21st of October 2025, that's where your points to the October of that date, your points will be there. So if you've only ran two races at the moment, you'd need to do another three races between now and the cutoff date. So before Octo. Before October, but the cutoff date may be like September.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

So and then once that major's done, the next one's in London in December. So then it would be from say the first of December to 25 until the cut-off date, maybe at the end of November, for your five races, and then they'll if you've ran like a first place, an eighth place, a seventh place, it'll then just add all your points up, and then whoever's got the most points, the top 15, go into the elite fifteen. So if you've done more than five races, they just take your top five, top five. But you you have to finish in the top eight, and then the next 15 then go into this elite fifteen.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

I wonder how much money it would cost just for five races. Obviously, you've got the ticket, then you're gonna have to fly somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

I always like do it as cheap as I can, and I reckon it's minimum for I would say 400 quid per race. Per race, yeah. If you look at a flight, if you get a cheap Airbnb, a bit of food, I reckon if you do really well, you could do three about 400 quid realistically, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 27:10

I I agree with that. Minimum. And then if you're spending like a weekend there, it just skips.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Yeah, and there's always gonna be one of them where the flight's a little bit. So you can't do like a kataweis every weekend where it costs a hundred quid. Like it's occasionally you've got to do an Athens or a Istanbul where it's like three, four hundred quid for flights. Yeah. So it's like you're probably talking like two grand, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yeah. That's why I was like, oh, go to Helsinki, I'll try qualify there. There's only one flight from like I think it was like Stansted. Was it Stansted? Yeah, Stansted. No, um and it was like £140, otherwise it would be like £500, and I thought, oh, no one's gonna do that. But then there was actually people paying £500 from in from the UK. Everyone went to those layers, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

And it's amazing, like what people it was in Berlin, so like we finished the race and everyone's like, oh, see you at worlds, and they went, Oh, why don't you just go to Riga next weekend? And I was like, the flights are 500 quid. It's like so casual. Why aren't you just so casual? And I remember going to Rich, I was like, Rich, I was like, You think I'm obsessed with this? I was like, it's like, why aren't you going to Riga next week? Oh yeah, of course. And then spend like two, three grand on then this stock home. I was like, Yeah, there's levels to it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 28:23

Yeah, because if you get into world, you've gotta then pay.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

You're then gonna pay all that as well. I actually do think it's this is gonna be more expensive than another like training for an Iron Man and doing an Iron Man. 100%. I agree, like massive.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

Well, yeah, because an Iron Man.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Well, once you've got your bike, yeah, you just get it once you've got your swimsuit, yeah, it's all expensive. But I think high rearks is I think it's more expensive, but I think it's more lucrative at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Yeah. Because it's not just the money you get, like to get paid for a race, yeah, you've got to be in the Elite 15. Like and none of us are in the Elite 15, like out of the millions of people, but it's like the brand deals people are getting. Like the so I think it's the eyes on the such a social media sport, yeah, that I think pe you can make enough from it to make it worthwhile. Whereas I think in triathlon it's very difficult to have eyes and money from it.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Yeah, I think there's so much more to not, it's not I mean, unless you're like a content creator in an Iron Man, you're not gonna nothing's gonna come from it, I don't think. Unless you're top level, but with like high rocks, you can you can put some good times down, make a bit of content, and eyes will be on you. Like there's some big, like big deals and big contracts getting thrown out.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

And that's now the start as well, I think. Yeah, this is probably the first year it's gone big. Boom, yeah. And so I think it's just gonna And then you're gonna get s have all bruns coming out here, I reckon. Yeah. I mean look at what Puma have done this weekend. Uh Worlds, like they've just been throwing kit to anyone and everyone, even like the judges, everyone's in the same shoes.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Yeah. They're all wearing those new blue shoes.

SPEAKER_04 29:59

Yeah, you can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

You can't miss them, yeah. That's just clever, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 30:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Like if I see one more story of like someone who's been given a load of training kit and then just had to post like a hashtag human trade, like it's clever. It is clever in the city.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

They're very selective with what brands they work with though, aren't they? Like if you're not working with them, you're not in that yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Yeah, there's been a bit of trouble recently, isn't there, with LSKD. Yeah, they're not allowed in there, are they? Post pictures. I think they're big in the US.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

But maybe I think some I think maybe the owner posted something like I don't know, like making a crazy amount of sales, but not having to pay to be in the venue. Oh, they said that. I think something was said, and it's a bit like taking the move.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Yeah, just they did something a bit because like everyone knows they can't. Well, why are Nike and Adidas not being like kicked out? Like, I think they did something like that, but I think something's they also tried to, I'm pretty sure like they were trying to like sell stuff within one of the hierarchies in the US because I think Nike and Adidas and all these other brands have kind of respected Puma's contract. Yeah, yeah, you've got it.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

I think Alice Game maybe I think they've done something, because otherwise everyone would be like their marketing off the back of it's actually really good.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Is it?

SPEAKER_03 31:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

I don't really um I don't really see Alice Game. You like the um shorts, don't you? They're really good quality. The running shorts are really good. I see them.

SPEAKER_03 31:23

They're really cool.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

The age group qualification um changed what halfway through the season? February this year. Yeah. So all of a sudden, it what was it? First, second, third, would qualify.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

So it was yeah, this is like a it's a bit of a touchy subject for me at the moment. This so at the beginning of the season, it was at most events it was top three would qualify. Yeah. And then if anyone in the top three had already qualified, they would then just roll down, and it would roll down and roll down. So like by the end of the season, you were basically if you were running under a 63-minute pro, you're probably guaranteed a spot for worlds, yeah. So that was cool. So this process was rolled out, and then I think what happened was because it was in Stockholm and not in Chicago, everyone was accepting their places for worlds, they got to Christmas and went, shit, like we there's a lot of people qualifying. Everyone's accepted the spots, we don't have any left. And again, this is just going off like rumours I've heard, or instead of coming out and saying that, they've obviously bought in this new process, which I do think is good for next season because it's getting so popular, yeah. But to put it into place halfway through the season was unfair, wasn't it? Outrageous. So they basically in February said, right, as of today, yeah, to qualify for worlds, you have to win your age group. Yeah, there's no roll downs unless the person who's won has already accepted their spot for the city. And then roll down to second. But what they also done on the same day was they bought in this point system for the Elite 15, which means that the Elite 15 have now got to race in normal pro races to get points. Yeah. So what was happening is in the like the 25 to 29 and the 30 to 34 age categories in particular, elite 15s are running every single pro race to get points, so they would win the age group, but because they weren't going to age group worlds, they were racing for elite 15. They would decline their spot, and if the if the places declined, then there's no further roll down. Yeah, so unless you were beating the Elite 15, you're basically not going to worlds, right? Unless they did already accept their spot for age group, which is very rare. So suddenly your races from February were it became nigh enough impossible to qualify for worlds. So what's happened is been a group of people who are running. I know some guys who've run in who have run like a 57s, I've run a 58, a couple of guys ran like a 59 pro singles time and not going to haven't gone to worlds. There's guys who ran 63, 64, 65, who again it's still great times, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

But it's basically meant like it's just but you know you've you're up there and you've done faster times than that and still not qualified.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

I didn't think I'd care. Yeah, I really didn't. And I I almost had to delete Instagram FOMO, and it's like being that guy that's like, oh, I should have been there, or like but I should have been there. It's like it's not justified, and it's like I just like so much respect for everyone that's gone, like everyone's worked so hard for it, but it's it's been difficult, and I think it is a great rule change because it's getting so complicated. Will that be the same now? So they've basically said this is the way moving forward, you've got to win your age group, and then as the season goes on, if the guy who's won has already qualified for worlds and has accepted their spot, it would go to second place. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

So will the elite 15 thing still be a that will still be a thing.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

So you have to beat that if if an elite fifteen happens to be in the race, yeah. But what I think they'll also do is because Elite 15 has got so competitive as well, all the Elite 15s will also accept their age group spot. Yeah. Because if they don't, then they're not gonna go to worlds at all. Yeah, so if they've accepted their world spot, it's okay. Right, it will then drop down to second. It was just if they were declining it, which was happening quite a bit. Yeah, um, because I do think it's a good thing because it's it's gonna get so competitive, it is now so I think it's a fantastic rule change. It was just a bit unfair for certain people that it was. I remember seeing it halfway through the season.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

I thought, oh, that's made things way harder.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

It was funny. So I I raced in Copenhagen in March, which was like my first like sub-hour pro, and I was like, mega, and I came fifth or sixth for my age group, yeah, and the top four were all Elite 15.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

So I was like, amazing, I've qualified because that was like the rules then. Like I didn't, and then I got an email, I was chatting to someone in the gym who was saying, Oh, you must have qualified for worlds, and I was like, Yeah, I'm pretty sure I had. And then I got an email from Hyrux World Championships that second, and I was like, mega, that's my invite. Yeah, and then I walked away, like got in the car, and then opened the email, and it wasn't, it was the email to say, as of today, the rule changes are in place. And I was like, Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Yeah, they must have just I think just not that many people went to Chicago because it must have been too expensive.

SPEAKER_03 36:22

Yeah, but you'd already done your race at this point, but they changed it.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

They changed it, I think they made it live from like February the 15th, and this was on like March the 15th.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Yeah, um, I know that's just kind of been the case with like Cardiff was the same. Um, but yeah, I think there's there's a few guys in the same situation, but it's just it's like Jordan as well, like he wants to just fly all over the place to try and qualify.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

It will feel extra good though when you do get that.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

Yeah, and like it's a great change because it's like next year it'll just be like the best of the best.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Yeah, um, and it's just like the whole world is gonna be like, can you imagine the standard at world?

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Yeah, like my coach messages yesterday and was like, it just still feels a bit, he was like, Dong a rung, there's some amazing best, and like all the guys that have won world age groups like are the best of the best. He said, like, there'd be 120 in each age group, and the top 50 were like the best, and then there was just like 50 who have run like 65, 66 in like I don't know, somewhere the other side of the world. Because that's the other issue, was like that's still gonna be a thing where all the English in Europe, if you only want to race in Europe, you you're really gonna struggle to qualify for worlds if you're willing to go across the world.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Like the standard in the UK is insane.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

It's just well, if you look at the world champs, like if you finished in any top 10 at in any of the UK events, you were gonna finish in the top 20 in the whole world, yeah, and that's been shown this weekend. Like your your placing in all of the Euro European races has kind of been the same in the whole world at the world champs. So I think a lot of people have been travelling around the world, and that's still gonna be a thing, yeah, but I just think it's got so popular now that there won't be a quiet race because people are so like we think we love it. There's guys and girls that love it even more than us and will happily like book us for the money out of Jakarta next week and to go and get their first.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

So I mean, you will get those people that will be travelling 12-hour flights to compete.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

I looked at it yesterday, I was looking at the results at like all the English guys and like guys that had run, and I was like, how how is he qualified? So like and I'd click on it, and one of them was like Mumbai. I was like, that's insane. Yeah, like fair play to you, like yeah. So I mean that would still be a but is that someone's flown to Mumbai? Someone well, unless he lived there, but he was he was British. Wow, so see, that's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_03 38:44

I was like, I'm well you did one in Dubai, but that's just because we were on holiday there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

This is what I was praying for that the Abu Dhabi or Dubai one was gonna come. And then we would just make a make a holiday out.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

Obviously, that one hasn't come about. That's the worst thing I ever did. It's my first ever hierarchs.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

Didn't even know like it's like at the end of the holiday, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 39:03

At the end of like a two, three-week holiday, and I had a high rox and I was like, this is gonna be no good.

SPEAKER_03 39:08

First ever HIROX.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

I remember running around as well going, do I go? What have I got next? How many lots? How many what have I got next? Every single time. What was that, like 2023? And now it's like yeah, and now it's drilled into my head, like where I've got to be.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

I think like with holidays, if you go together, like Rach and I have always said, like, we had this mistake in Malaga when we went, like I wanted to go three days before, yeah. So I could like I say climatize, like Malaga's what, like two hours ago. But I was like, I wanted to be settled, and yeah, and like that's great for me. But Rach was like, I just spent two days doing nothing. She was like, I'm more than happy, and I can put like I think it's a great idea because I love it when she comes. Like, we did a few this year where we've made like little holiday breaks event, it's amazing. But the rule now is get there, you get there, race, and then have a weekend away.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Yeah, you can completely switch off then. I know that's what my plan is to either do it on the same day if you can, but it's I'd rather do it the day after, but yeah, I just don't think it's good to do it like three days now. It's not good for anyone involved, like so. Advice to anyone that wants to start their high rocks journey or has just recently started their high rocks journey. What advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_01 40:19

My advice would be number one, run. Like, you can't get away from it, it's 60% of what a high rocks race is. I don't think people run enough. I think prime example is that it's hilarious. Like, so I coach in the gym Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and we do something different every morning. Yeah. Thursdays is threshold running. I get a full class four days a week, and that's good that you do that. Three or four people come on a Thursday. Oh really? Oh, really? Everyone loves Hyrux, no one likes to run. Yeah, and even though I say every week, guys, the Thursday session's probably the most important one, yeah. No one's because it's 45 minutes on the on the treadmill, whereas everyone wants the Wednesday session where it's like a full send high rox worker.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Yeah, it is funny, isn't it? Like that is I think that's a big issue with the industry at the moment is okay, high rocks classes are great, but they're not doing not every gym. I mean, your gym's doing the the hyp the hype the threshold runs and stuff like that, but gyms aren't putting that on because it's not sexy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

Like no one it's like they want their classes to be fit, they want the classes like they you want a hundred people so they can put on Instagram, yeah, because everyone wants to do a high rocks workup, but that's what makes you it sounds awful. Like that's what makes you shit at high rocks because you should be doing that once a week. Yes, like you should only be sending it once a week. I mean, it's it is an endurance erase, yeah. You you need to be fit, and it takes years to get fit. And it's like when I first started doing like I think I was really fortunate that I didn't realise I had such a base endurance from and it must have been just from like years of football that like if you said Matt, go and run 10 hierarchies back to back, like easy, yeah, yeah, run it full cent, like I'm still struggling to really like put myself in the hurt locker, whereas I think most people love putting themselves in the hurt locker, but don't have any base, and like when I first started, like when my knee got better and I started running really good results at the back end of the season, and I and I was looking at guys who I like admire on Instagram and YouTube, and I was beating them, and I was like, but these guys on YouTube, when I'm watching their YouTube channels, they're doing their like threshold sessions like 30 seconds a kilometre quicker than me. I was like, What's going wrong? And like these they're just training too hard and running too quickly, and like they're not building their fitness, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

And it's also like you wouldn't have like a gym session that everyone comes down to, and it's like, okay, so we're gonna be doing 60 minute easy bike. Yeah, exactly. That's never gonna happen, is it? Like, who's going to that class?

SPEAKER_01 42:53

And like I get it, and like it's absolutely fine. So, yeah, like running and just easy running, like yeah, also then when people do start running, they run too quickly and too hard, and like that's what I started to do. I was speaking to a lad the other day, and he was like just gone for like an hour's easy run. His average heart rate was like 190. I've I've never seen a heart rate.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

I think that's the other thing as well. When people first start their journey and they they run and they're like, okay, yeah, this is what running feels like. My heart rate should be between 180 and 190. No, that's like you need to talk.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

Like, yeah, and I think social media again, like running under a two-hour half marathon is insane. Yeah, not under 130, 120, like running under four hours in a marathon, under under an hour in a 10k, like these are all amazing things, not running sub 40 10ks or sub 90 minute halves or sub three hour marathon. People look at these paces and go, right, that's what I need to do. Yeah, but actually, you'll get fitter from running like a seven minute kilometre run for an hour than trying to send it because you're not allowing your body. Body to adapt and get fitter. So number one, run more. Uh and I guess number two, what we just said then, like just get fit. Yeah. Like it is an endurance event. Like, yeah, there's sleds involved. But if I had someone for like 12 weeks and they were like doing a Hyrux and they'd never done anything before, like you'd probably get them for like nine weeks of that. Just doing running, biking, just get them like aerobically fit and then chuck in some Hyrux stuff at the end because you see it again and again and again. Like people say, like, oh, I'm gonna run a sub-hour, and they run like an hour and a half, and you go, Yeah. What's gone so wrong? Like and they're just not fit. Like we've all been there, like you get halfway through the race and you just blow, blow, or they end up doing like war balls in 15 minutes, and like it's not because they're bad at war balls, it's just because they've literally got nothing left in the tank. Um, and that's like a big thing. Everyone always says to me, like, Oh, how are you so good at war balls? I'm like, watch me do war balls. I am awful. Like, I can't squat, like, I can't touch my toes, like I'm so immobile. Like, the reason I get a half decent warble time is because I've got the engine that I've still got something left in the tank when I get to the warble. I mean, that's where people go wrong. Again, we've seen it this weekend at Worlds, like people have just gone, oh, it's it's world champs. They've sent it and they've just and then they've they've ended up running like five minutes slower, and like it didn't from like what people have said, it wasn't a slow course, they've just bonked.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Gonked, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

So yeah, just get fit, get aerobically fit. Yeah, yeah. I think that's honestly the the biggest the biggest the biggest thing that most people go wrong with.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

Yeah. Over the next 12 months, obviously, we're coming into the next Hyrule season. What are your goals, would you say?

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Well my number one, qualified for worlds, yeah, and I will qualify for worlds, hence why I'm gonna run Athens, Oslo, Geneva. Like I want it done ASAP. Once that's done, again, like I said it in a in a post recently, like I may get completely nutty humbled, but for once I'm gonna be confident and say, like, I would love to run in the Elite 15 Division One at some point next year, whether that's singles or doubles. Um, so yeah, that's like my way out of their goal. Yeah, um, but yeah, like immediate goal, world champs, and then hopefully try and run an Elite 15 Div one in singles and double. Oh mate, that would be sick if you if you get there. Fingers crossed, yeah. But again, it's getting better and better. Like, I hope I can get there, but it may just the standards may just get crazy. But yeah, I'm gonna give it give it my best shot.

SPEAKER_03 46:32

You were definitely, I mean, what's how much better can the standards get?

SPEAKER_00 46:35

I don't know. If they keep breaking records and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

Yeah, it's crazy it's actually mad.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

I think like it's it's difficult, but then there's also some people who have peaked, like I've seen it quite a lot. Like some of the guys and girls who were like we were all in like awe of a year ago, two years ago, like they seem to just be like not getting better, or like guys at our level, yeah, who this time last year were way ahead of like myself, for example, and now they seem to be like plateauing because they've been doing it for three, four, five years. It was people like ourselves who have only been doing it for a year, and like every race I do, I'm like you've got that drive just getting quicker and quicker and quicker because just learning more and more and more, and like it's becoming like race savvy as well. Like before Hyrux, like I'd never run like a a sporting, like a race, like a so it's like knowing how to race, so that'll be interesting as well. I think the newer people into it will get better and better, but a lot of the people that have been in it for a while may just start to like plateau. So I don't know, like it can only get so much better, yeah. So yeah, we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

I'd say what are my goals? Yeah, what are your goals next season? My goals for next season. I want to run a 52 or 53 open doubles. Nice that would be nice. Um, currently at 55. Wanna do my first ever pro singles? Yeah, see how that goes. Yeah, I want to do that. Um, I think that would be really cool. And then pro doubles, sub fifty-four, sub fifty-five. Yeah, that would be cool. They're my goals, whether that'll make help me qualify. Oh, and then I would like to qualify in the mixed doubles. I feel like I'm I'm sort of there with the mixed doubles. Um I think that's just kind of what we ran at what a 111?

SPEAKER_03 48:18

111.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

And then we did it like a few weeks later and we did worse. I think we got disqualified, didn't we? Yeah. Got disqualified because we were too far apart. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:27

He was running really quick and then just waiting at the end of the room. And then I would just wait. I thought he'd go in, he was waiting at it, but I think because he was so far away and it happened to me.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

I was like, I've got a hat here, I'll just leg it and then just rest and then absolutely rip the station apart. Then we got disqualified.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

But we got a worse time anyway. Yeah. So that tactic does not work.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

Well, yeah, it's because we got no, we did a ride.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

No, I I got over my ankle, hadn't I? So I was I was walking a lot of it.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

You were you were walking out. Maybe she fin we have a story, like we did it, we did we did a DNF. Really? Really? But I won't go into any more. Someone throw their toys out of the car. No, it wasn't even me. Oh really? Everyone was worried that I would just be like the bastard, like dragging her like by her hair.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

But yeah, we got a DNF very early on. I can tell you now, that high rocks will make or break relationships.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

I hate doing it with you. He runs and he like taps his bum, like, come on, keep up. I'm not a dog.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

It's just not good. I think unless you're similar ability or someone does more, it just doesn't work. Yeah, it's not.

SPEAKER_03 49:32

It's the running, you've got to be similar ability. The station doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

But if you do have that the similar ability, like it's cool, like it would be it would be mega, like it's like we've said, like, when you finish a doubles and you cross that line, like it's such imagine doing that like with your partner, like it would be amazing. But at the same time, if your standards are like so different that one of them crosses the line and like they're literally dying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just feel bad for them, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 49:58

I remember doing it with you, are just like, oh, I just feel really sorry for ever. I want to do well. Yeah, so I yeah, I don't think about that.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

I think pro singles will suit you really well. Yeah, and you're like bigger in terms of like muscular, yeah. Like some people it's like sled like open to pro. If you're good at open, doesn't mean you're good at pro, and if you're good at pro, because I know guys who have run really quick open times and they run like 10 minutes slower in pro because they're just smaller, they just can't do it. But then vice versa, I also know guys who run really good pro times and run basically the same open time because they're bigger athletes, so they can't run as quick for open. That's true, yeah. But they push. So I think someone like yourself, like I honestly think you'd if you like placed if you did like your placing in open to pro, yeah. I reckon you'd probably do better in pro. Probably yeah. Because you'll smash the stations and your running's good enough to keep up.

SPEAKER_00 50:51

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 50:52

You train with heavier than pro anyway, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Yeah, everything's pro or heavier now. Yeah, get it built. It's that it's that sled at the moment, like I hit it every time. You think that's a mental no, it's this it's just the nah, it's the turf. So like in the gym, I'm like stacking it heavier. But I hit that sled in high rocks and I'm like, wow.

SPEAKER_03 51:10

But that'll be the same for everyone, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Yeah, 100%, yeah. But I just need to I think the gym that we're training at now, simply they're having a refurb and they're getting the center turf. Oh, that'd be cool. Which I think is gonna be game changing.

SPEAKER_01 51:21

I mean that might it's also a mental thing, like like you said, it's hard for everyone. Yeah. I what I do, I'm a bit conservative when I race, which is why I always race good times, but I never race, I never win. Yeah, yeah. Because I always like I'm a little bit conservative, it's like the stead. So as soon as I feel that lactate buildup, I rest. Back off a little bit, yeah. Because that's what everyone says you should do in school. Like sometimes you just gotta like go in the hut locker, get in the hut locker, just do it. So yeah, I've come to Oslo with me, end of September. I'll be there. Just booked it.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

Have you?

SPEAKER_00 51:51

You're going to how much were these flights? Cheap. Were they?

SPEAKER_01 51:55

170 quid. Oh, I'm in then.

SPEAKER_03 51:57

Is that when Rome is? I just don't like sports.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

In the same weekend as Rome. Same weekend as Rome. So this is like Matt's new philosophy this season. Like, don't moan about not winning races, just go and run the races that you can win. So I'm not doing Rome. I probably won't do like Warsaw. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:12

Why not Rome? Because it's busier.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

I just think everyone will be going to Rome because it's like a nice place to go. It's a nice place to go. Right. So I think I did all the nice ones, all the the good races, all the fast courses. So like, yeah, you get a good time, but if you come 20th, like who cares?

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Like so And the other thing with me is is if I'm gonna race, like I don't want to spend like £300, £400 on a flight, and then not spend that much time there. Like if I'm I'd rather spend that money but then have like a week there. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like make the most of it.

SPEAKER_03 52:40

Well we can go for my birthday then.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

Okay. There we go. You put you put where we go. Athens.

unknown 52:47

I think.

SPEAKER_03 52:47

Wait, are they all on the same weekend?

SPEAKER_01 52:49

No. Athens the first weekend of September. Yeah. And then Rome was Rome and Oslo the last weekend of September.

SPEAKER_03 52:57

Yeah, we'll do the last one because that's what my birthday is. Alright. And you've got Daddy Dozz on the first one.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

No, at least I've got the green light. Come on, yeah. Got the green light for that one. That was easy.

SPEAKER_03 53:06

Yeah. Maybe I'll do a pro women's.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

Yeah. There we go. Oh, I'd love that would make my day.

SPEAKER_03 53:13

Honestly, we did a workout yesterday and Greg was like, you do the six kilogram wobble for the thing. I think I did three reps, and I was like, just do one, though. Give me the four.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

Give me the four. You do make me laugh. Oh, it's funny. You are my best mate when we train. Just because you're so funny.

SPEAKER_03 53:30

I just I like to do my own workouts.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

Yeah. But you are literally like so it's like comical for training.

SPEAKER_03 53:37

Do you do bear crawls?

SPEAKER_01 53:39

I know what a bear crawl is. I probably could. I when I say I'm unflexible, I'm unflexible. When you said that, have you trained this morning? I was like, I struggle to get out of bed. Like I don't think I could do a bear crawl.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

We had a warm-up yesterday and he was like, right, what was it? 20 Karlski erg, dad hang bear crawls for 15 metres. I was like, Bear, what is that doing for me? A bear crawl.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

That's funny.

SPEAKER_03 54:03

I don't think it's doing anything for me. No, actually. It's just making me look silly.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

Yeah, why do that? Yeah. But then look at Burby Broadjumps.

SPEAKER_03 54:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:12

Same sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, well, that was an amazing podcast. That was I felt like we needed longer, but we're gonna have to cut it though. I chat I don't start. Um but yeah, absolutely lovely meeting to you, Matt. I wish you all the best for your next season. You're definitely gonna be div one, Elite Fifteen, at some point, I'm sure. So keep training. Love smashing. Thank you so much for having me, guys. Lovely to meet you both. Thank you.