Real Truths about Friendships (and Outgrowing Them)

GUEST INTERVIEW!

Join Miranda Lee and her close friend Madeline Dell, tattoo artist, mother of ALMOST two, while they chat real friendship! 

They aren't the girls with the troop of 8 besties that have been alongside them since childhood. And if they could, they would tell their younger selves (and you) not to buy into that... as it isn't really how relationships work for people if you are really honest with yourself. 

They are both mothers, entrepreneurs, (untreated ADHD in full force) and spiritual ladies who live to dive into deep chats, and break down the phony superficial shit.  Join as they speak to normalizing some real pieces of friendship, especially in adulthood. 

Topics:

• Realism in Friendship: How they met, have supported and built a friendship during the busy chapter of life raising kids, running businesses and being a good spouse 
• Superficial BS: Being around and insights on surface level, fake small talk chatter and 'everythings perfect' personas amongst other women and moms, and how much more fulfilling real, vulnerable chat can be for each other. How we can put down the masks.
•  Unrealistic Expectations: How we aren't meant to be 'the same person' with the same friends our entire lives to be a good friend. People are meant to come and go, and serve a purpose.
• Energy & Growth Shifts- The energetic and vibrational shifts and growth that happen, and how to honor a friendship ending and the deep grieving process that we must honor
• Honest Input & Advice: How they listen and give honest feedback and opinions with each other in a respectful and heart led way
• Being A Support in Relationships: Being on team 'my friend and her partner' and how we hear out and empower each other in the relationships with our spouses.

A first, but not last, interview together about normalizing the real parts of life they navigate together with vulnerability and deep conversations. Stay tuned, as they will surely dive into some deeper spiritual chats in the future!

Follow Madeline:

@madlemon.tattoos

Follow Miranda Lee:

https://www.facebook.com/miranda.wiese/

https://www.instagram.com/mirandaleepodcast

Follow her Studio Aligned Holistic Health & Wellness:

https://www.instagram.com/aligned.holistichealth/

https://www.facebook.com/AlignedHolisticHealthandWellness/

Check out her Heart Led Writing on Substack:

https://itsmirandalee.substack.com/

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Miranda Lee Podcast. A life fully lived embraces every season, the highs and the lows. Allowing ourselves to love fiercely, feel our feelings, and trust to land softly. This is a heart-led space created for just that. Deep, vulnerable conversations, connections, learning to unlearn, become part of a beautiful community while growing and healing right alongside me. Because everything is easier with support and lived experiences shared with the right kind of people. Let's step off autopilot, get a little uncomfortable, take a breath, and dive right in. Okay, welcome to this episode. I'm so excited. I've like had a vision of this for a long time. We got pictures even taken a year ago, and I was like, ooh, I'm gonna use this for my podcast episode cover. I'm joined by my amazing friend Madeline. Um, we've been friends for I think the last two and a half years.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Like, yeah, I think roughly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Um, Madeline is an incredible tattoo artist. She is the owner of her own little shop, beautiful little space, Mad Lemon's Tattoo, little shout out. Um, she is a mother to a beautiful almost three-year-old in August. And she'll be welcoming baby number two in August.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Hey, well, I'm super excited. Madeline's been an amazing friend in my journey. Um, she's my go-to. I'm gonna get all teary-eyed. Top it. She's my go-to person when yeah, when I need anything. And I think also just very spiritual, which I appreciate about you, because that's a big piece of life in in my life. So welcome to this podcast that you also have been a huge supportive of me taking the steps to let's get a little uncomfortable and vulnerable.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Ooh, thanks for having me, friend. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Okay, so today we said, because I'm gonna have you on here so many times, today we said we're gonna talk friendship. So, okay, before I wanna say, because I think this matters, and moving forward, Madeline is, are you 13 years younger than me? 27. And I'm almost 40. Right. Yes, okay. You got it? Yes, and the I always thought this was cool. We realized this before, but so the age gap between me and you is the same between you and my daughter. Yeah, and and my daughter and your daughter are almost that same gap, which is so cool. That is so wild. Um, and so I I love I love that you and I are so close, even though there's that age gap. It's because you're so mature. Oh no, but it I think something really cool about our friendship is that um is that I sometimes feel like how I support you as a friend is like I've already lived through the chapter that you've been in with some things, like with parenting or relationship stuff. And so I've always found that really cool, but then I also am so grateful because you always seem to be able to meet me and support me in friendship exactly where I am. So I think I just think that's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Oh man, I'm so grateful for you. You're a huge blessing. Oh you are like man, when you so Miranda started as a client of mine, actually, which is funny because I always had this rule Yeah, don't be friends with clients because they just want something from you.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Well, or just being careful with that, because I kind of have the same there's like a boundary line, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Yeah, people just like to, you know, you give an inch, they take a mile, but you never did that. And I remember when you asked to go for coffee, and I was like, oh, she's so cool though, it's gonna be fine. And then yeah, like just right away, I was like, this girl is the bomb, and I don't know, I don't know where I'd be without you.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Oh, I know for real. Oh, sorry, I say I know. I know, I know, I don't know where you'd be without me. No, I don't know. Oh, fuck. The last three years, the last three years haven't been like no, the last three years, I think you came into my life when I was switching my studio, correct? Yes, I like had just when I first moved here. Oh my gosh, holy shit.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

And then like I remember driving by and being like, Oh, I'm gonna check that gym out. And then like two weeks later, I was like, There's a new sign. It's called a line. Really? Yes, yeah. Because your studio is only like two blocks from my house.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Yes, I didn't know. Okay, maybe I did know that. So I met the first time I met you was Sound Bowls. You came to my studio for a sound bath, yeah, and you were just getting your tattoo shop fired up. So, Kate, this is kind of cool because no, I wasn't opening a brand new business, but huge shift. Oh, yeah, and you were too, and I remember when we'd go for coffee, we'd be like, Okay, what are you working on? And we'd like have a little accountability cue. We kind of kept it like business-y in the beginning, yeah, which was really cool. Um, did we go on a side quest? When did we meet? I'm trying. Speaking of side quest, both of us. Not I'm not diagnosed, but I'm fucking pretty sure I have ADHD. Are you diagnosed? I am. Oh, you are.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

I would say, are we rolling? Yeah. Oh, cool. I'd say yeah, no, I'd say that we side quest. You got a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

We have lots of side quests. I got a touch. You got more than a touch. You got a little touch. I got a little touch, yeah. Um, yeah, so we will go on side quests. Yeah. But what were we talking about? We're talking about the last three years. Yeah. Just like you've had a child. You started a tattoo shop. You had just moved here, had you not? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

New city, new house, new baby, new business. It was crazy. It was wild.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

That's a big chapter opening.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Zero people around me when all that was happening. And then you were just like there.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Oh. Yeah. And I was I had just gone through, I think, a little shift in my studio though, too. Um, and had a little bit of like a friendship loss, because that's what I always kind of think of it as. Yep. And I feel big. I think you know that about me. Oh, I do.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

I do.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Every girl with big feelings needs a Madeline. No, but so you know what it's interesting because you're like, when you said let's go for coffee, and you were like, ooh, I was also like, I don't know if I am ready for like a friendship, but I had just kind of lost a big one. And oof, yeah. Oh, and you know what's been really cool about our friendship though, is things like you'll call me and be like, sorry, I'm calling again. And I've never had that friend. I've never had the friend that's like, I'm always the caller. Oh I hope you don't feel like that in our friendship.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

That's so cute. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Do you feel like you're always the one calling and I'm never calling you? I hope not. No. Okay, good. I call a lot sometimes. Yeah, but I like that. Okay, so in saying that, this is what a real friendship looks like in my life, though. You're like my favorite person. I would have coffee with you every day, but we're also both owning businesses. We both have kids. And so, uh, sometimes it's that quick 15 minutes I'm dropping, you're dropping your kid off.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

And you call. And those are like connections, though. Yeah. Those are, and we can talk deep shit in those 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

I know it's crazy. It's crazy. And I'm so grateful for that because there's so much. Okay. The side quest. I've noticed a lot, especially in adult friendships, adult and being an adult mom, right? A lot of I oh I'm a ladies' girl, okay. I'm just gonna say that. There's a lot of surface level bullshit when it comes to other moms around, right? A lot of just like small talk? Yeah, it's all small talk bullshit. Oh, I'm doing great. I'm doing great, everyone's doing fine. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 9:11

And it's you can feel beneath those layers though, too. But it's uh I've talked about this on a couple episodes already.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Yeah, and it's just like it it frustrates me. So it's really cool to be able to have a friend like you where yeah, I'll call you and it's a quick 15 minutes, and we get into some real deep shit, and I'm like, hey, one sec, I need to order my coffee. And then and then we order a coffee, go through the drive-thru, continue on. Yeah, yeah, it's really nice to be able to have that.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

You know, and I forget, I think I forget because I don't hmm, I don't put myself in a lot of rooms, as you know. Same fucking hate small talk. And I think you're the same as me, because both of us are pretty intuitive and pretty empathic, but like I find it hard because I can feel and like see the truth kind of behind that. And I just want to be like, hey girl, you don't have to put on a smile and like it's okay, you can tell me whatever is on your heart, and I'll just hold space for you. Yeah, even if I don't know you, yeah, like I love that, I live for that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

And being like an intuitive, right? Like, you're so deeply intuitive, like you have a whole business around that, right? Yeah, and then me with my mediumship, like people don't I don't walk up to somebody and be like, I'm a medium, yeah, you know, but like you still carry that through every interaction you have, yeah. So it's for me to just I feel like it's part of our personality though, yeah. You like cover yourself up just so you're not too much, so it's like fuck, maybe I'll just not go to this gala or like that's where you went though because I've said that a couple times already on recording.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Oh, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Yeah, so I just kind of gala always come up. Oh, a gala. What is a girl like me doing in a place like that? Gala girl. Gala girl. I shall not gala.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Yeah. So yeah, you know what, though I forget that um that is how it is. When I call you, I'm not I'm legit calling like, are you good? Is shit hitting the fan? Do you need a good cry?

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Oof, love that. Another cute, like, I don't know, it's cute for me, but like, I don't know, we won't see each other for like a week, two weeks, whatever. And there'll be so much to say, but there'll be no time. And then there's just days where you're like, hey, do you want me to like stop by and bring a coffee while you're getting set up for a client? And yeah, that's when we have time. Yeah. I feel like it's awesome though. Like, I'll just be like mop in the shop, getting my setup ready, and Miranda's just chilling there with my ice cap waiting for me, and it's just like a quick little it's a quick visit, but it's still it means so much. It's I think uh I think a good friendship is yeah, little things like that, and the big things too, like the things that you don't cover up, but can always or or like stupid little laughing fits in a parcade right before you find out. Oh, there's an air tank on your car.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Oh Dave, we do have the best laughing fit, so yeah, yeah. Um, can I just say that sometimes sometimes we'll meet at McDonald's and not tell anybody because we're both out and about. Or you've met me at the hockey rink arena for a quick hug before I went because you were in Bell for you. I know I don't know. I love those things about us because let's be honest, um, I think we do a good job of making time to connect, but shit happens too, and then yeah, like today we haven't seen each other for I feel like it might be three weeks.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

Yeah. And and for reference, we are like a three-minute drive from each other.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

But life just gets so this is mom life, business life. Yeah. Um, I never feel like you don't put me into your life though. Exactly. Which is cool. And I'm not typically a like reach out all the time person, so you know I love you. Cause like lots of my friends I I don't talk to for a month, two months. Yeah. And then you connect, but those are like those are the good friendships.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Yeah, seriously. The like where yeah, where you leave it and you see each other and it's the same, and nobody's mad at each other for not that. Well, I don't have time for that. No, no, no, that is like hard pass. That's something that I actually just went through. Like you were saying how you're you feel big and like going through a friendship loss. Like, sometimes that can feel harder than a breakup. It does.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

I do, I feel like it does.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Because that's someone that you're like, yeah, you're it's it's I don't know why it's so different, but it is harder than a breakup. And I had this friend big downfall, like whatever, completely cut each other out. We reconnected um when Octavia was just born, just kind of like hey, whatever, forgive you, blah. And then um I just but I don't have I don't have time to message you every single day.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

And some people need that, and some people I think it depends to what chapters people are in because I've had lots of friendships. I think I've talked about this on a previous episode too, but like I've had friends and they were great friendships, and I needed those, but they like were single or didn't have kids or whatever that might look like. But so then I'm running a business and I have kids, and I my partner is a huge person in my life, so he needs to be a big piece of my life, yeah. And so that's hard too sometimes when people are in different chapters, and I think that's it sometimes when friendships fall away, it's just it's like, okay, we're in different places.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Um yeah, and that's a thing too. Um and I learned this young, and I'm grateful that I did, but not all of your friends are supposed to be with you forever.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Certain people come in and out of your life at certain moments for a reason, and they leave for a reason because it's like your vibration raises and theirs stays the same, well, it's no longer a match anymore, and there's no reason to be mad at each other for it, you know, it always hurts, but like yes, I I actually I think I may have spoken about this whole age just on repeat, I guess, but um when I've had I've I've come to a place in my life where I actually just went through this, won't surprise you about me, but I like keep birthday cards that like not just a happy birthday, but like if someone writes a message, I keep them. And then not I don't go very through like every couple years, probably I'll go and like peek through my box of like what the kids gave me and what friends gave me. And um, I've the last I don't know how long I've really had to reflect on friendships and the fact that yes, like I don't have hardships with the people that have come into my life. I did probably in past versions of me, like the version of me 10 years ago, I probably would have had like a really crusty edge towards someone, but now I'm very much like grateful for the people that have been in my life and at peace with the fact that they fell away. And I actually just went through my cards, and there were a couple from friends like um probably 15 years ago. Oh wow, and oh my god, the messages were like it. My heart was just like, oh, I remember how awesome this friendship was, and then for a split second, I was like, oh, I miss it. And then I was like, Okay, Miranda, but it's also okay. We don't have to, you know. I just wanted to like, I should reach out and rekindle. And I was like, no, yeah, I don't, but um, I've reflected on this with you because I think the friendship that I had a falling out with just before I met you was probably one of my closest ones. Oh and that was a hard one for me. And then Melee and I were talking about this in an interview, just about she's seen me lose friends and seen how much that hurt and how like it's a grieving thing for me because I love fiercely and land softly. That's my podcast subtitle, in case you didn't know Madeline. Because I feel like I do love fiercely and I've learned to land softly. Yeah, side side quest. I went on. You I had to let that friendship fall away so that I could be who I needed to be now and welcome you into my life. And like if I wouldn't no, but like it comes back to aligned, like my studio name, because it's not that people are like you're not losing people, they're falling away to make room for whoever's meant to be where you're at. Do you want to talk at all to maybe not? Just you brought up you brought up about like um how people are at different vibrations, though, because I think that's huge.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

And you have to look beyond just like what you talk about and where you're at in life, but literally, um, we can't always sync up with people's energetic vibrations, and I don't know if you want to speak to that at all or um I in relationships, even oh man, like real like I don't know, one of the bigger ones that impacted me in my life wasn't even like a romantic relationship or even a friendship, actually, it was um employment in a workplace where because you are in relationships with those people though, yes, even if you're not like thinking about it, you have a relationship with that person and you share energy with them, absolutely um yeah, I like I worked I worked at this place for years and it was really good for me at the time, but mind you, when I started there, I was in a crusty place, like a really low yucky place, so it worked for me, right? And then after bomb bomb bom, COVID. Oh, I know, what a sore subject. Um but yeah, after COVID, I really like came out of I just came into myself, I think is the way to put it. And my vibration raised, and I just realized how unaligned I was with these people I was working with, and that can really um it can really affect you. Does it do you feel like it takes energy from you or does it just like yeah, yeah, of course it does, because a lot of the time people don't even realize it their vibration's low because of things that are happening in their life or or places that they're putting themselves in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Huge.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

Um, what they're watching, what they're listening to, what they're focusing on, all of that affects your vibration. And we're not beings that are supposed to be at a low vibration. That's that's a whole other topic of conversation.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

I was just gonna say that's where you're controllable, that's where you're stuck, and you just oh yeah, agreed. We might have to have a whole chat about we should we have before, I feel like.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Yeah. But like so when yeah, as human beings who come from a much higher realm originally, right? Um you You are to be influenced by low vibrations, but we're not supposed to be at a low vibration. So a lot of the time, if you are at a high vibration um and you're around people at a low vibration, you feel sucked, you feel like drained, and all this stuff. And it's not even these people's fault, but they're trying to get at a higher vibration. What do you have that they don't? Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Do you think do you think that you like I know when you when you are in a high vibration that you are attracting that? Yeah. But you're also, if I am right, also kind of attracting low vibration because you're giving that off, right? Yeah. And which is why protecting your energy is so important.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

Yes, because it's not these people's faults for wanting to get a little bit of you, right? Because you're just this blah, you're this ray of sunshine, and oh my goodness, everybody just loves you, and this and this and this. Um it's not their fault.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

But it it can mess with you. Well, and then in relationships, I think that's where we get stuck because one person wants to tend to or take care of the other person, but it's like there comes a point where you either match up kind of. Ellen and I talked about this too, but you either like match up or there's phases like, oh my gosh, you and I have had it's hard sometimes when you're in a really good space and I'm in a low space. But I also love it because I think we do a good job of you can hold space for me when I'm in a hard place, but I can still listen to you be so pumped about where you're at. Oh, yeah, no, and and vice versa. But um I I feel like in friendship more so than because when you're in a like relationship with like a a husband or your boyfriend or whatever, whatever, yeah, um, you're not that you're more committed, but like maybe you just know that's what it's gonna look like. Like there's gonna be highs and lows where you guys are in different points, but then with friendship, I feel like maybe maybe we meet friendship a little bit different. Like it's easier to if someone's if you're not a match, you're not a match. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah does that make sense? Yeah, not writing off that in a relationship someone can be low vibration forever and you're dragging them along. That's not what I'm saying, but I I do maybe that's it. In friendship, there's like a permission slip that like if you give a permission slip, and I guess that's what we're basically talking about, is we need to allow ourselves to have a permission slip that this could be really great, and there might be a season where it's not, and it's okay to let that go.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Yep, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

We side quested and came right back. Look at us to circle back where we are circle back, circle back, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

I've had lots of like, yeah, romantic relationships where that vibration was just low, and you know, it's for some reason it's harder to toss. But I've also ah, it you don't want to feel like a shitty person, but like, yeah, if this friendship isn't if you're giving more than you're getting, which that's normalize that though, like you shouldn't be expecting things in return. That's not what I'm saying. But when it does come to friendship, energetic exchange, stuff like that, yeah, there should be like you should not be giving more than you're getting because that's gonna get exhausting and that's unfair.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Question for you. Yes, have you been friends with anybody your whole life? Um, no.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

No. I'm a person who I easily let go. Yeah. I don't just like I'm just gonna kick you to the curb, but um I do have a friend. We've been friends since grade five. So that's a long time. We're not super tight, um, but we're not not tight. Like, I don't know how she's kind of seen from the sidelines all the stuff that I've been through. But she's never been there for all of it, right? Um, family friends, this and that. Um and like we stay in touch, but it's not like I don't know how to describe it.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Okay, so why do you think why do some people have that? I feel like some people just have that, like, we've been best friends forever. Like, are they best friends? No, um no, because I This is why I love you and you're my friend because I always sit there being like, I really call bullshit. Yeah, or like it's lovely that you guys can meet each other, and I'm gonna have to have someone on who has had a best friend their whole life, or someone that's like gone through every single chapter of life with them. Yeah, because like I know that's not me either, and like it's not that I haven't always I've always like seen in movies and shit, or seen people have these friends that they like continue with, continue with, continue with.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

And I don't know, is it like a personality thing? Is it just being really honest with yourself?

SPEAKER_02 27:41

I feel like, and this is might be rude, but um, I feel like a lot of that is also just like people needing to have that best friend. You know, like not being okay being not being okay without them.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Is it people pleasing too?

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Oh, probably. But like, yeah. Um like feeling like you're at fault if you're no longer friends. Yes. So I have someone really close to me who has had all of the same friends since high school. All the same, all the same friends. Work friends are new, yeah, blah blah blah blah blah. But timer, timer, but yeah, um all the same friends, and some of these people are excuse my French, pieces of garbage, like straight pieces of garbage, like like shit you shit I don't want in my house, kind of thing, right? And I ask, like, why do you even talk to these people? Why do you invite them around to keep the peace, to keep the peace of everybody else in that circle, right? And that's just not how I roll, that's how they roll. That's small town shit too, though. Let's remember that. I think, yeah, yeah. Um that's understandable, but yeah, like I don't I think it is people pleasing sometimes, or not being cool with confrontation, not being cool with being uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah. I am very cool with being uncomfortable, or just saying the stuff that I need to say from my chest. Yeah, some people just can't do that.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

I've gotten better at that for sure. Um, I've gotten better at putting myself first because I was definitely I just wanted everyone to not feel like shit or not feel how I felt in the past. And oh my gosh, I coach youth that I work with about that that's not your job and that you're actually doing a disservice by not being authentic and not speaking your truth. But yeah, I think I've gotten better at that, and you know, I it's funny that you say confrontation because I just the other day was sitting down to do a writing piece and I was like, okay, I've always said I hate confrontation. And I was like, why what does that mean? Like, why do people hate confrontation? And I was like, okay, so it was never that I that I couldn't say, like I lead circles and I have no trouble on this podcast or in my writing saying what's on my heart. But what why I started to hate confrontation, and I know this is the entire purpose, but I really had to break it down, was like I feel big. And so when I say how I truly authentically mean, and I'm met with judgment or whatever, and it does go back to kids, and it goes back to oh gosh, I think for lots of people, siblings, or even just like your parents not being able to meet you, but then like, oh my gosh, being a girl in grade five or six or seven or fucking grades three through twelve, yeah, um, and just like not being met, and then um I'm also as you know, like I should I'll cry or I'll I'll be emotional. I remember in business too, when I spoke and would be emotional, I felt like I was weak, yeah, and I felt like people were gonna see me different, and so I've I've had some confrontation things in the last two years that I know I've chatted with you about, but like meeting people who I could see there was deeper, there was a deeper side to them, and there needed to be confrontation because I just wanted to like invite a little bit of openness instead of a hard edge. Oh, and that was terrifying for me, but it literally was exactly what I needed, and I allowed myself to be emotional, and I had to remind myself that like, well, as I've been saying, like my emotions are my superpowers, and so people as an adult now, you can either meet me where I'm at and walk away with whatever, or like just not hear me, but I'm not going to not speak my truth, and so I'm like, I've tried to almost reframe what confrontation looks like in my head. It's not confrontation, it's me speaking my truth and either being met or not, but that's not my shit. That's not for me to not speak my truth because it might not be met right. And certainly I think I need it, I need to be a 40-year-old woman who's like working through that, and yet I watched my daughter be able to do that, and so I've been trying to say, like not being confrontational, speaking your truth, or having an honest conversation. And I think with women, I think that's where lots of the not speaking up is met because we are all emotional, but some of us come across stronger than others.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Yeah, I agree with that completely.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

And I'm soft, yeah, and I think you're soft too, but you also have had to walk lines younger than I did, where you had to like put your foot down, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Which yeah, been through some go through some stuff, you know, you gotta do what you gotta do. But um, yeah, confrontation, uh speaking your truth and confrontation are not always the same thing, it's how people receive it that make it the same, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:37

And intention, yeah, like intention is huge too.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

If you're going into it, like you gotta have a chat with somebody because something's just not working out or whatever, and you know, you just gotta you just say what you gotta say, not in a mean way, but someone you could say the exact same thing to Joe, and Joe's like, Oh yeah, man, sorry about that, cool, like awesome, and then you could say the same thing to John, and he just fly off the handle because he's so rude. Like, how dare you say that to me? It's because that's a vamp problem.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

You know what? And I was just gonna say, uh I was always sensitive. Um, I was always I would react emotional. And Alan will still say this to me all the time, and it's a good reminder, and then I'm reminded I need to like step back and meet myself, but like, not everything's about you. That's one I always walk through life with now. But he'll say to me, um, you don't have to take a personal. And like, you could have told me that 10 years ago, and I would have been like, probably would have broke me down because I was a like wear my heart on my sleeve, everything carry everyone's shit, right? Whereas now I can literally be like, okay, step back, listen to what was said, peel back the layers. Like, first of all, if you feel like it's about you, what part of you are you meeting of yourself that you're feeling like this needs to be hurt? And then what was actually said? Like, what was actually said? What are the takeaways? And then just like unraveling it that way because yeah, taking it personal, I think that's where confrontation sometimes. And if we take things personal, usually it is a like sit with it. What got mirrored back at you in this conversation? Like, is it past shit? Was it actually something that presently happened? Because oof, yeah. Yeah. Have we ever had a fight? No, no, I think that's because we're so mature. No, I think mature. I think um I think you and I do a good job of saying to each other, do you want to hear Do you want to hear what I have to say? Like I've said that to you lots before. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

And I say that too.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Like, I I think there's a huge piece of communication is that just because you're my person doesn't necessarily sometimes I just want to speak. Yeah. And sometimes I want advice. And I think I think we've said that to each other so many times.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Yeah. Oh yeah. But like here's the other thing that comes into play with um friendship and com conversation. Um like, you know, the term take it or leave it. It truly is that you can take that or you can leave that. That's someone else's thoughts on the matter, right? So it all does come down to are you gonna take that personally?

SPEAKER_01 36:45

You know, like, but like I I'm mindful of this too, especially because I've lived through some of the things, some things that you've already gone through. And I remember, like, I don't always want advice. So even though you might be going through something parenting, and I'll be like, oh yeah, I've been through that. Yeah, I'm not gonna fucking tell you what my personal experience and advice is because yeah, fair. You're just overwhelmed or annoyed or raising a toddler, and you just want to tell me that you're fucking annoyed. I'm gonna leave it at that. I get it. I'm not gonna tell you, you know what would help. And this was partly why I step back from mum groups and shit too. I don't everyone's walking their own line, doing their freaking best. I don't need to hear all your tips and tricks. That like there's a time and a place, but also fuck off. Well, yeah, and like that's you've gone through that too.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Yes, that's another huge um piece of friendship is being able to just sit there and listen as well. Like, yeah, if you know, if I'm telling you some crazy stuff and I just need to rant and get it off my chest, whatever, you'll be like, Do you want to know what I think? A hundred times out of a hundred, I'll be like, Yeah, let me hear it, right? But you always let me get to my point or get to the end of my tangent, and then you're like, yo, do you want to hear this? Yeah, you know? Um, and then I think some people will just instead of okay, maybe they just need me to listen for a second, they will um yeah, just hit you with the, oh, I know exactly what you've what you're going through, and this is how I did it, so you should do it like this. Yeah, and nothing is shittier than that.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Yeah, well, that's what I mean. Because half the time I've said this to my counselor, I'll go into a counseling session on Zoom, and I'll like say something, and as soon as I say it, I'm like, oh. Like I hear myself say it, and then I'll say to her, I don't even know if I need you. I might just need to put myself on Zoom and say my shit. Because sometimes you just need to hear what you have to say.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

Well, yeah, yeah. Okay, it just needs to be loud.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

I have one more thing I want to ask you about, and then we can wrap it up. Okay, what? Okay. In a friendship, where how do you feel? And I think I know how you feel, but talking about your partner. Al and I just chatted about this the other day. This is a big one for us. It's important to me that my friends, I say this to you all the time. I'm on Team Quentin. Like, I'm I'm not, I never am not on his team. I'm supporting you.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

And like, yes, both of us have moments where we're like, bah, my partner.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

But what does friendship look like when it comes to supporting each other in like marriage or partnerships? Ooh. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

I think that can be a tricky one. I think that you need to be. Oh. I I don't it's yeah, you need to be on your friend's team. But you need to be like your friend, okay, a marriage, right? There's two people involved. You're you're friends with one person in this marriage. Yeah. Yeah. They're still a team. So you need to be supportive of the team, but you can still be on your friend's side. As a woman. As a woman. Um it's hard. Okay, so I have I have a friend. Um, we've been friends for a long time. She got engaged. Um, she man, like I lived with them when they were engaged and stuff like that. And it was uh not good. No, it was not good. Okay, it was not good. Um, and it wasn't like horrendous by any means, but you could just see vibrationally, she was much, much more ahead. And it just looked, he was pulling her down, and she just couldn't be the person that she was, and it was hard to watch. And uh, but you still support her because she chose this, like this is this is her path that she's choosing. You support that, right? When there's some shit that needs to be said, you can do that in a kind way. You know what I mean? You can give your two cents, still love the guy, but girl, this is what I see, you know.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Um because also I feel like there's like there's moments. My rule is kind of like if I couldn't say it to Alan, maybe not in the moment, but if I couldn't say him say it to him right now, what I love is or what I think is really valuable in all of my female friendships is that I can speak to something that's bothering me. Yeah, usually if I don't talk to Alan about it, it's because they're I'm like making sure that's not a me thing, that there's not like something that I'm missing that I need to own. Yeah, but the fact that a girlfriend of mine will never be like, what a piece of shit, or you deserve better, or any of that. Because I feel like um that's just the ick for me big time of like if you're in a a shitty relationship, yeah, I'm I'm gonna support you either way, yes, but I'm also gonna have honest conversations, but I'm never gonna sit there because I can't change anything that he does, but I can just support my friend and be there. Yeah, and yeah, I just the whole like probably 20 years ago, I remember just like friendships of being like, yeah, smack talking and like or even hear overhearing that other people talk about, yeah, huh?

SPEAKER_02 43:02

I think there's a time and a place for it. Like in the scenario I was talking about, supported her the whole way through. Boom. And it's all together. No, they got divorced a year later. Um the day before the wedding, there was a very telltale sign that things like like it was it was it was the thing that happened was so loud that you could not ignore it. And I looked at her, and after how many years of, you know, standing by both of them, I just said, Hey girlfriend, if this isn't a sign, I don't know what is. And I said that, and it felt really shitty.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

But again, that could have ended the friendship. It could have.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

Or she heard you and took what she needed, yep, and she ignored it.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

And that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

That was I said what I had to say because like that was the one and only thing that I said. Um But I I had to say that. Um and then just like I want to say, like, this was years ago, right? Just about a year ago, we had the conversation, and um, she's like, Why did nobody tell me? Oh, and I just wasn't ready to hear it. No, and I looked at her and I'm like, I told you the day before your wedding. Do you remember that? And she's like, Oh my god, you did. You know?

SPEAKER_01 44:26

So you can you hear what you want to hear though, too, right? And so I think that's why it's also like, I don't know. That's it's like I'll be here to support you, but I'm never going to um say like your person's a piece of shit, and oh no, no, no, they need to change, or like, yeah, I don't know. And like, okay, so there's always things we can do too, or that we likely aren't doing for ourselves that could create some of that change too, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Yeah, and like there's there's such a oh my god, that's such a fine line, right? Because there could be like a really abusive marriage. And in that scenario, for your for your friend's own safety and like well-being, okay, we gotta like get you out of the situation.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Yeah, you know what I mean. And I feel like that's different. Definitely not being like, Yeah, oh, he's a great dude. No, but I'm gonna hold space for my friend. Yeah, and I what do you need say, do you want to hear what I have to say? Boom. But I'm never, I feel like in friendship I'm never trying to steer you. I'm just hearing you, yeah, and like giving you what I'm intuitively kind of feeling, yeah, and that I think I just always appreciate that about you because I I know there's a difference between being able to go to a friend and uh it's vibration again, but knowing that I can meet a friend and she's going to see the value in my husband, but be able to meet me where I am and also call me out on my shit. Yes. Because lots of times it's not just a him problem.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

It's a well, you're in a partnership.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

You're in a partnership. Yeah. It takes two to make a match. You know what I mean? I think that's an important thing to consider. Are it comes down to values too, right? And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

Yeah. Oh my goodness. So much to talk about. Um, yeah, but moral of the story. Moral of the story. Miranda's the bomb. So there's no moral of the story. Don't say no.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Moral of the story. I'm really grateful for you. Um, yeah, I'm excited to see where our little journey goes.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

Oh my goodness, right?

SPEAKER_01 46:43

And I'm just real grateful for you and all you bring.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

Oh, thank you. I'm so grateful for you. You're such a light. You are a like, oh I know all these people. Oh I know they all already know that. But no, I'm super grateful for you. Thank you for having me in your super cool podcast space. Thanks for letting me chitty chat on here.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

Thanks for posting your little pregnant bum on my couch so that we could chat. Oh, yeah. And will we chat again, do you think, before you're a mother of two? Yes. Yes. Okay, cool. Sounds good. Well, I will end it here and I will say thank you for joining me. Remember to love fiercely and allow yourself to land softly. And until we meet again, my tagline is this I got it from you, Madeline. Until we meet again, peace and love. Oh thanks.