Our Relationship with Money, Debt, Finances & 'Success'

Money$

A beautiful chat with Miss Aleah Anseth, a dear friend and Miranda's go-to photographer for her everything from personal family memories to studio and podcast marketing.  https://www.instagram.com/alte.studios/

These two small business entrepreneurs dive into their personal experiences in finances, healing work required with money, debt and investment views, and how they navigate their own financial journeys.

<WE ARE NOT FINANCIAL ADVISORS OR PROFESSIONALS, JUST TWO LADIES SPEAKING TO THEIR PERSONAL JOURNEYS WITH IT>

Topics:

Partnerships In Business- Aleah speaks to how her and her husbands partnership came to life, communication, family, and how they keep balance in life, marriage, parenting, finances and business.

Paying Off Debt- How normalized debt is, and upgrading constantly can feel like a trap/game in life...and how they personally decided it was priority to pay off their consumer debt, their steps and how they approached it, and then paid off their debt without having an excessive income.

Lifestyle Choices- A discussion on how no one is coming to save you. Ultimately, we must make choices for ourself. How our life circumstances in health and pandemic forced changes and taking risks to live a life that allowed personal health focus, financial adjustments, and freedom versus asking for permission. How the hard chapters shifted priorities, boundaries, intentions with money, rooting into entrepreneurship, and the outside pressures of what 'success' and constant 'upgrading' looks like and how it can be rewired.

Tools, Roadmaps & Suggestions- Diving into some of the tips, budgeting, methods, challenges, creating a road map and personal suggestions on how to start, stay motivated, adjust and find success. And acknowledging if we don't have a lot of tools, to just find community and avenues to learn more about budgeting, investing, saving, paying off and more that align with you.

Financial Healing & Emotions- Finances is a huge aspect of wellness, and the healing, reflecting, and processing required to meet yourself with when you 'feel like you failed'. How personal and emotional the journey can be, disconnecting from it being your value, and how you can also celebrate and shift your insight on you and your relationship with money.

Partnerships in Finances- Navigating finances in marriage and partnerships, how each partner has a different relationship with finances, and the importance in being able to talk money and work together (however that looks for you and your partner). And how we can get into hidden finances when there is shame or pressure, and how to empower each other.

Relationship in Money- How we talk about, prioritize, view it as energy exchange, and the flow of it in and out...and how spending and saving both need positive relationships and views. How we teach our kids about money, and how we talk to our kids about it to ensure positive relationships and better understanding with navigating finances.

Seasons of Finances & Debt- How different seasons of life invite different chapters of what we do with our money, how we spend it, when debt is acquired, and the different views on it at different ages....and its all personal. And what we learn in different seasons, and the lessons we can move forward with it.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:43

Welcome back to the Miranda Lee Podcast. Um, I always start with I'm excited because I'm always so fucking excited. Um, I'm joined today with a friend of mine who I have had the honor of experiencing her arts and crafts in photography. Um, a very dear friend of mine, Aaliyah Anseth. Welcome to the Miranda Lee Podcast. I'm such a sweaty little palm monster right now. I love, you know, I know you're one of my people. You're sitting there crisscross applesauce. That's me always too. I love it. I'm excited to chat with you. Um, I've known Aaliyah. We were just chatting probably eight years. Um, and I first met you. You did my video, what do you call it? Videography.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Yeah, little promo video.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Promo video for my studio when it was Pipes Fitness, and you were like hella pregnant. And I'm like Uber organizer. So I had a full fucking day planned, and you were just like boss. Yeah. You and your hubby. So you didn't have kids yet. No, that was our first. So that's right, too. So cool. Cable, um, I don't know, sprinkle in whatever you want to share about you. You're the owner of Alt.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Yeah, so I'm a photographer. Um, I actually started with video. Um, I wanted to be a director one day, went out to Vancouver to be in the film industry, didn't love that. Came back, started a business with my husband, and we've just been telling other people's stories in just a different way. So it's like still fit, like we're telling stories, it's just not pretend stories, just real life stories now. Yeah. Yeah. Weddings, weddings, babies, families, just basically any of those special little moments that people want saved and documented. We're always happy to kind of do so.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

And it's so cool. Um, you you both have or you both, you guys have two kids now. Yep, but you have always, since I've known you, worked together in this business venture. Yeah, we did you meet each other through that?

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Yeah, so we actually met in college. Taryn was doing, um, I was in college for film production and he was in college for video game design. Shut up! Yeah, so yeah, so he wanted to make video games and I wanted to make movies. And then you made babies. And then we made babies and just do photo and video stuff now. So I actually taught him video stuff, and he taught me photography. He's a he switched to graphic design and photography, and the camera principles are pretty the same, like they're pretty interchangeable. Um, and I didn't like video editing and he didn't like photo editing. Perfect, so we just kind of switched roles.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Yeah, but it's been it's cool to watch you guys work together too because it would not be easy to work with your spouse. You guys balance each other out so good though, and we both really enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Like it's it's not it's not a chore. Like, we however when we go for supper, it looks like we don't like each other because we're with each other genuinely so often that when we're out to dinner, it's like no peace and quiet, like yeah, just in our own little zone, and it's really fun and I feel like is that your relationship? Yeah, that's kind of Al and I like we kind of like to just coexist with each other, but like yeah, like I want to be around him, but I don't necessarily want to talk to him.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

No, I know it's like I want his company, just we literally are the worst. If you see us in a restaurant, yeah, you might not want to sit near us because we'll sit there and not have much to say. We've always loved just coexisting, but like we people watch and we fucking die laughing at the things going on around us. So yeah, side note. If you're out for supper and you see us, we're probably people watching.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

And I'm also like, I swear I'm happily married too.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

But just yeah, and then we can also talk each other's ear off completely though, yeah at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

And I kind of like it because even though we're working together, especially like on a wedding day, he has his job and I have my job, and it just happens to like overlap, but it's I'm not telling him what to do, he's not telling me what to do. So it's like we have our own goals, like and our own process. So it's like we truly are a team. Like he gets his perspective, I get my perspective, and it just we share similar values, which is why I think our work together does so well.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Did it take time to get to that place, or were you always kind of just good at trusting each other? And you do you, and I'll do me. Um, I think we're it was kind of natural. Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Yeah, we were friends in call, like do you know what I mean? And I was actually like in the dorms, like always in my pajamas, going to different people's like dorm rooms, eating their snacks. Like, I was like a cat that just like and then just like was like, yeah, so I was like the straight cat that he's like, I can handle you.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

You were a pretty fucking easy lady to work with though, too.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

But yeah, no, we kind of just like always we worked really well together, and it just happened to evolve beyond that, yeah, like into more like life partnerships.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

That's cool. Yeah, I love that side quest numeral one, just kidding. Um I love that. Okay, so you guys work together and spend a shit ton of time together, yeah, and that flowed together really well. Um, what, and I guess introduction of two kids into your life too. What have been the things that you've had to work on? This is not the majority of our topic, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Our biggest thing was communication and like not. I was getting really pissed off that he wasn't reading my mind. I was getting really mad that he didn't know like why I'm feeling this way, or we also communicate very differently. Yeah. I'm speedy, go, go, go. Like, if I have a thought, I'll just word vomit it out.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yes, because we were talking about you you sent me a message after listening to Alan Eyes, and I get lots of these where people are like, ooh, I resonate with Alan's communication style, and my husband is more like you, and I'm like, that's so fucking cool because it isn't gender specific.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

No, like Taryn's very, he's very thoughtful. He's very he internalizes things first before he says it out. And I don't think I just like I'll just speak and then after and then get it out and I'll feel good, but he's not like that. He needs time to think about it. And by the time he's ready to talk, it's already done. I I don't feel you've moved on. I've moved on. So that was like really hard to come back. Yes. Yeah. Because I want to like talk right now and he needs time to process, and respecting that has been we're getting so much better at it. But that was like the hardest part is communication styles. He um he's from a family that we're they're very quiet. Like, do you know what I mean? I don't know if they're very um, I don't know how to say, like, like not conflict, like they don't really like discuss issues, do you know what I mean? As openly.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

And I come from a very loud family, like keep the house quiet, keep the peace 100%.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Like they'll they cut their house is a very keep the peace, even if you're uncomfortable, kind of thing. And meanwhile, if you're you're uncomfortable in my family, usually someone will let you know, and it's just very loud.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

That'd be so uncomfortable for him in the beginning. And he I like sitting here being like, ah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

And he when he first met my family, he met not just my family, like he met like my family, yeah, yeah. Grandma, aunties, like die right in. He got thrown in there. He does so well now, and they love him, but yeah, it was I think a lot of adjustment period for Does he still feel like he has to really fucking ground?

SPEAKER_00 8:38

And like, is it a lot for him to be around big energy? Because even in your work, that would be it though, too.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Yeah, no, he's more comfortable now, and I think it's just because his wife's big energy, so he's he's used to it and he's kind of comfortable in the chaos of it. And it probably helps that you're there though, too. Yes, because there is a piece of like you and your partner when he goes and works up north, he'll stay with my auntie and uncle, and I'm not there. Oh, yeah. And he'll like he'll stay with my family, and no problem. And he really enjoys it's just a different world. Like we come from two different family styles, yep, and he's adapted and he actually really kind of likes the chaos in my family, and then I also like the quiet and the peace that his family has. It's a nice little break once.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

It's all about balance, hey, for sure. I love that. Cool. Um, what else have you guys had to work through?

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Our biggest things, like our biggest accomplishment, I think, as a couple is our debt repayment journey together. I think that's like our our biggest thing that I'd like to Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

So we our plan today is diving into a conversation about finance. Um, right off the hop, I'm gonna say we are not financial professionals. No. Um, we are speaking from life experience and our just I think our personal and life values in how we move through life. Um, I'm super excited about this conversation. And so, yeah, let's let's dive right into it. That's been a big piece for you guys.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

It has been.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Like we pride piece now, too.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

It has been like, and I want to say the amount of debt we've paid off because it's a big number and I'm really proud of it. But I want to preface by saying, like, it's not like we make a crap ton of money. Yeah. So it's not like we're I don't, I always say I you don't live to work. No, and I truly believe that anyone, if they want to go through that like debt paying, like paying off debt journey that they can. Like if they truly want to, if that is part of their personal finance journey, they could do it. Yeah. And I'm a big believer in that because it's not like we're making hundreds of hundreds, like, do you know what I mean? Like we're we make a good living for where we are. Um, but we also took on extra jobs and we did all that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

So so one second, I just want to say I always like to just like I can always feel someone listening being like building up their like, well, I have to, and it's like, okay, for starters, everyone lives different lives. Everyone, we had this chat just before recording, manages, views, and has different perspectives on success, what that looks like in life, in finance, and that is fucking awesome. That's why life is awesome because we get to choose our own path, choose your own adventure.

SPEAKER_04 11:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Um, but I think it's really important that let's speak for a moment before we dive into that on um, I think what you and Taryn view a feel-good life and how you like how you live so that we can kind of set the where you're coming from. Cause I agree, like Al and I are on the same page. We're not, I mean, we're not just bare minimum, but like we don't need all the new shit, and it's more important to us um in our own personal values that our time together and our time with the kids and being available to do the things that we want to do in our life trumps a climbing a corporate ladder. And there's nothing wrong with if those are your goals.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

But so do you want to maybe speak to so like I think too, like I don't maybe it's an entrepreneurial self-employed thing too, because I I don't have it like a staple, like we don't have stable paychecks. Yes. So finances so finances for us was a big source of our peace and freedom. Yep. Because if we have all these bills that we have to pay, if we have the car payment, the student loans, the line of credit to the mortgage payment, like if we have all those things, we have to work. Yeah. And well then and it's a stressor, and there's a pressure to provide because and especially when you're bringing kids into the world, do you know what I mean? Like there's just all these extra forces where it's like now you have to work. And I want to work for enjoyment, um, not necessarily out of necess. Like, do you know what I mean? So, and it's and I know not everyone has that luxury, but in order to start to get to that point, I had to try to take away what some of the outside pressures and it was the debt, like it's the payment, it was having to make all these payments.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

So, really quick, I love that you brought that up. Um, yes, entrepreneurship isn't for everyone. How come you guys chose that? Was that a choice because of the freedom piece?

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Or yeah, but it actually was freedom because I have dealt with chronic illnesses and I was really sick of asking my employer for time off and justifying when I needed it. I forgot about this. So, like I um when I was out in Vancouver, I had to, like when I was living out there, um, a lot of like issues with my body and stuff like that, which actually manifested after pregnancy and just like all unloaded. But I they didn't know what was wrong with me. My liver count was super high, but I wasn't it wasn't high enough where they could treat me. But it was they were like, Yeah, you're no wonder you're feeling like garbage. So whenever I got any flare-ups or stuff like that, um, like it would put me out. And then having to call work and justify, like, no, you don't understand, like, I don't feel well. Yeah. And it was, I think, four the day four in a row. And I finally went in and they sent me home because they're like, Oh, yeah, you look like dog crap. I'm like, I feel like dog crap. And I just didn't like that element of if my body needs to rest or my mind, I want to rest, I don't want to ask for permission. So that was the big catalyst.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

I'm so glad I asked you that because I forgot about that, and that is huge. I sit with that a lot too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Like I could not because now I don't have to ask and boss for it. If anything, it's a client. Do you know what I mean? Like I get to like if if I do need a time or something, I could meet a client or I can mentally prepare myself where I need to exert myself at this point in the day for this much time, and I can adjust the other parts of my day to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

If it's without needing to justify it to somebody else. Yes. Oh my god, I'd be the worst employee now. Yes. The fucking worst. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

So I thought that freedom part of me was always, and maybe it's my anti-authority thing. Like I don't do well with like people telling me what to do, but I like collaborating with people. I always thought I wasn't a team player, but I'm not, I but I found I am a very good team player. The right people with the right people who value what I have to bring to the table. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Oh, yeah. I love that. Yeah. Okay, cool. Because that's a that's a big piece. Like, I think everyone chooses. I chose entrepreneurship because I had a vision. I didn't like asking permission to chase it, and I didn't have enough time in the day to be a yes person for a boss and also do what I was craving creatively to do. And then, well, then how long have you been an entrepreneur for now?

SPEAKER_01 16:16

So we'll be celebrating 10 years of our business in September.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Oh, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

So in 2016, we moved back from Vancouver in the summertime. Moved in with my parents. Well, sorry, Taryn. We were in her parents' basement, and we decided, like, well, if we're gonna move it, we're gonna do it, let's just do it. Yeah. And then I'm always thankful for my parents for giving us that platform to be able to allow us to. Yep. And then, yeah, we were doing so well. Like, and we're so awesome. We, yeah, I don't know. It's just been so good for us. Hard and like, it's not like so.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

It's not you're not in your parents' basement anymore.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Just to clarify, this is not why she's like being dead.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Yeah, I was dead free because I actually just live off of my parents and no judgment for anyone who may be living in their parents' basement, but just to clarify, they have created their own home and life. Yeah. I love that. Okay, so coming back to like the entrepreneur piece though, and the money piece of that, I think there's an angle that that feels different in life, though, too, when you're an entrepreneur, because that is always a over-the-head hanging cloud of finance. And it doesn't have to be a big heavy cloud, but you always are feeling it, and you're always knowing that there is a something that you need to work towards or a something that needs to be a step that has to be forward to create momentum or to create, you're always working your way out of work, right? And you're always needing to continue to recalibrate where you're at with finances because of that um that piece, which now, as I sit here and being like, what stirred up when we were chatting before, what stirred up the like real big focus on financial freedom? And it was COVID. Yeah. And so holy shit, when you take two entrepreneurs that are trying to run their businesses and you place a government outside control piece on top of that.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

And when your business is people focused and you can't see people, or you can't hold a baby and you can't like do those things, and you can't have weddings, you can't have like we're our whole business is people. And we just me too. Yeah, so it's like when that happened and we were at the mercy of just like what an outer source had to tell us what to do. Yeah, and it was it was like being employed, it was such somebody else coming. And it was such a yucky feeling because the what I love about entrepreneurship is there's no there's no roof. Do you know what I mean? You could you can make more. Do you know what I mean? If you work where you can make you could you can increase your earning potential by maybe offering different services or doing different things.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

We couldn't do nothing. Put into a real tight box.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

We got we got told stay at home.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

And then we were waiting for and then we had, but then we had all these payments.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

With no like regular job, no unemployment to apply for, no anything like that. Like if we couldn't do a service, we weren't getting paid. And that was a gross feeling to have, especially with a toddler at home.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Oh, oh yes, because little little yeah, Taven was just over one.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Yeah. And at first, when COVID happened, I was like, oh, good, we're gonna just teach her how to walk because she wasn't walking yet. It was like no timeline. And we thought it was going to be like, okay, everyone, you know, two weeks, three weeks, and then we're gonna and so we just did that. And then it lingered and went on and on. And our finances got so bad, yeah, that that fall we both actually applied to work at the school. So we were trying to work on our business and get regular spegular employment.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Yeah. That's exactly it too. There was no, this is a piece emotionally that I've had to work through, but there was no um way to prepare yourself because I put money aside and you you can prepare for three months or whatever, right? But what you can't prepare for is two years of restriction on your business. And and so the uh that was a yeah, I feel yeah. And like hard one.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

And our primary, like we make majority of our income, probably 75% of our income, with weddings. And there was and we didn't know if any of these events were gonna happen. So then we also saw our potential future earnings not there, yeah, because people rescheduled or whatever, which we completely understood. And I'm a big believer in not putting our financial burden on our clients. Yeah, I don't I don't like people that do that personally, yeah, where it's like, well, my costs go up or things. It's like I feel like to serve my clients better, our expenses should be as low as possible so that we you know, so like, but yeah, we lost everything. Like we lost any we couldn't I couldn't photograph babies because we weren't allowed to photoshop like hold babies. We couldn't do weddings because you couldn't have like a certain amount of people, and it was just a really well it was just something that you can't prepare for.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

No, my account I have an amazing accountant, and she always would remind me because as an entrepreneur, I'm still um I'm still trying to catch up. Yeah. Which like when I then this is why there is also like a real hurt with COVID was I the same thing. Like I didn't get a stable paycheck. I then couldn't do my work. And there weren't options, like I could only zoom classes for so long, there was no sports teams. Being able to come in. There was so it was just like there was no way to prepare for a two-year fuck around and I homeschooled.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

And I pride myself on being able to pivot really well. Yes. But yes. I felt like that John Triple to me. We're kind of like pivoting.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Like, do you right if I thought of Ross on Friends, like pivot? And it's like, I'm fucking pivoting. Week to week, I'm pivoting. And um, at the end of the day of all of it, though, I think you would agree. Um, what I got from it, um, not financially, but in how I navigate my life and how I had to learn about finances and how how I switched my values and how I navigate. I needed to switch my own worth too, and and how I was navigating stuff, but so many beautiful takeaways from a really hard chapter um that I still get to apply and now teach my kids and and now we get to talk about on a podcast because had it not happened, we wouldn't be sitting here being like, hey, let's fucking talk about this.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

It was a good perspective switch. It was. I just wish the circumstances were what they were.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

I certainly agree. Yeah. Yeah. Like for me, I had typed up a I'm closing my studio message, sat at the river, balled my fucking eyes out, and was like, I can't do this. Like, I how far do you put yourself in a hole? I loved my clients more than I loved, I think, my own ability to pay my grocery bills. And I worked, you well, as an entrepreneur, I worked, I'm almost going into 19 years in business, like for all of that to just get because of something completely out of my control. Because it wasn't closing on your terms. No, and it was also like my health shit had already bubbled up, and I was like, No, like I'm doing this. And Alan was like, you're not closing your studio, and he didn't know where I was at, but I'm grateful he said that to me. But oh yeah. I and then that was also a season of realizing that no one's coming to save you, which is a big one for finances. No one's coming to save you, and at the end of the day, no one really cares about your problems. Nope. And I mean that, and you know what I mean. And everyone has everyone has their own shit. Yeah, 100%. And like I had been in chats with other gyms during all of it about like how to navigate this, and like, yeah, everyone's trying their best, but at the end of the day, I was like, if I close my gym, I'm the one that will feel it the most. Not saying my community wouldn't have, but like, yeah, yeah. So figure it out. Fucking figure it out, and no one's coming to save you. Those were really big ones for finances for me.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Ours was too, like when we were waiting for the checks. Do you know like the like those 2000?

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

We did it once, we did it for once because we we didn't know. Do you know what I mean? And I was like, I did not, it was such a yucky feeling to be to just be waiting. Waiting for a chance. Yes. And I, as a control freak as I am, I it was just something where it's like, I don't want to be in this position again. Or I want to try to like do as much as I can to not be in that situation again. And that was the whole trigger point for us where it was like, do we want to still do we want to play this game? Like, do we want like you know what I mean? Like, do you want to still do the normal thing? Everyone does this, um, or do we want to try something different?

SPEAKER_00 25:30

It was a great opportunity to shift. And in saying that, today is a great opportunity to shift if you're listening in and you're like, I'm struggling with shit and it's unrelated. Cause I I won't blame COVID anymore. Cause nope. I'm owning my shit, I'm owning the things I could have done different, and moving on. Because nope, not dragging that heavy rock. But I think it's still important to speak to how you get to places because that's a piece of financial debt and navigating finances is equally healing, it's energetics, it's exchange. So yeah, I love that. Okay, well, let's fucking dive right into that. So I am a little bit of a nerd with this word, but I do really love the why. I the why is your fire in all of your things? So, for you, can you speak to your why? What made you dive into finances and debt management and how we navigate money? Money, money, money, money. I was like, I really wanted to open with that song because I always hear it. But yeah, what was your why? And maybe in that sub-question, were you and Taryn? Did you guys have different whys? Yes. Who initiated this?

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Um, it was me. I've actually, I really I started paying off my some of my debt before we were married.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Um like student loan shit?

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Yeah, like I was just like working on it, trying to pay it off because I've always been someone who I don't want to carry a lot of that. But there I also thought saw debt, it's normal. Like I'm gonna have a car payment. I'm gonna like I'm gonna have all these things. Like I'm I was that's okay. You know what I mean? I was debt was okay to you. Yeah, it was okay. It was more so like as long as it could, as long as you could manage it. Do you know what I mean? So it's like a number. Um, basically, I made sure like whatever our income was, like, we could always like pay our bills and all that stuff. So like I was paying it off so I didn't have as much and that we could put more money towards a house. So that was like my journey before. Yeah. And then we got pregnant, or like I got pregnant and we had Taven. And she literally just flipped our world upside down, but for the best. Because then it's like it's it's such an ego slam because you're not responsible, like, do you know what I mean? Like, I don't care about like these things, I care about this little team and it's a good one. And making sure that any opportunity that she wanted to do that we could get to that place. And at first we were because we didn't start this until she was closer to two before we started to pay it off. Um so and I think as parents too, like you want to your kid to have better than what you have. Do you know what I mean? You're always like you, you always want to lift your kids up so that they have better opportunities and stuff. And we thought we were doing it because we're managing, we were paying all our bills, we're making all our car payments, our student debt payments. Like we were able to do that and still have a little bit of extra. Yeah. And then when the world shut down and we had all these payments, no extra, no margin, no nothing. And then she's getting older and I want to have another baby. And then my husband, who's I don't know if I could provide like that that pressure of that providing came back because of all the payments and all these things and the pressure to work and because we're partnerships, so I have to work. Yeah, so it was like, I think it hit him harder too, where it's like, if we wanted to, if you want to expand our family, like I don't know if we can financially do this. Yeah. So I didn't want that to be an excuse to not expand our family. So yeah, he had that pressure to provide. And I wanted another baby. So we I kind of proposed to him the idea of what if we paid off our debt? He didn't think it was possible, you know? And we listened to like podcasts and I did hypothetical numbers. I said, if we do this, we should be able to pay this much off by this time. It takes off these pay. I tried to just justify basically another baby with math, which is hilarious when you kind of think about it. Yeah. Um, but that was like kind of the kick he needed to help join, but it was still a reluctant join. Does that make sense? He's like, Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

If you would like to put extra payments, like you're leading it and I'll support this. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Like he's like, he wasn't like fully in. Yeah. But he was like, not gonna stop. Does that make sense? Like he was, yeah, go ahead, try. Didn't think it was possible though. Yeah. Which makes sense when your entire life or anything, like, I don't know anyone who has no debt. You know, I don't know anyone who really like who doesn't have a car payment in the normal life. It's so so it just felt like we were walking into the unknown, and we just started listening to podcasts and just trying it, and then we started to see progress. Oh, but before we saw progress, our sewer pipe broke. We had to get it, we needed to replace, and I was like 10 freaking thousand. Oh my god. And yeah, like so, like, as soon as we're like, we're gonna do this, like they're like, Are you? Or how serious are you? The universe is like, you really want to do this? Let's test ya, right? So, yeah, that's like the beginning of our journey was the fact that I wanted to have expand our family. I wanted Taven to have a sibling. I wanted to be a mom to more than one. I always had the dream of being a mom to like three or four kids. Like, I like that big family kind of idea. And I didn't want something as silly as debt payments to stop us from that. Yeah. So we began our debt-free journey and we crushed it. We paid off in the course of I think we count like four years, we paid off over a hundred thousand dollars in debt.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

That's fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

And like we worked hard and we didn't have a lot, like all the basically anything extra went towards that, but we saw a finish line, we saw purpose in the chaos, so we knew it was a season, it was a hard season. But coming from the other end of that season, holy cow, am I so glad we did that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

So what were your tools, takeaways? What would you say to someone who's like in that position?

SPEAKER_01 31:57

I would say no, let's first things first, know your numbers. In the sense like so, like, look in the mirror. What is your situation? So huge. Are you are you projecting that it's bad? Is it actually bad? Are you looking away from the actual number? Because if you don't know what you're facing, yeah, then how are you supposed to like break any cycles or fix any of the problems if things are hiding behind doors?

SPEAKER_00 32:23

And if there's a heaviness, there's usually something you gotta just own and sit with. I um tried my best during COVID to keep things consistent and how I'd always done it. And I really had to, when I hit the point, I was like, okay, and look at like what am I as a business paying for? What isn't feasible right now? How can we adjust it? And letting yourself look in the mirror without looking in the mirror and being like, you're a failure, you shit the bed on this, this, this, but just being like, okay, this is the reality, and not it being like such a heavy reflection on yourself because it was. And I think that's a huge part, is like knowing I had my budget and all that stuff, but what I wasn't, I do my own books, but what I wasn't doing was meeting my business where it was at in an uncontrolled like space. And like, how can we adjust and what can I cut that isn't necessary? And that was when I started really month to month doing my books instead of waiting to see what's the income, what's the expenses, where am I at, and projection ahead. So I think that flipping the mirror, no matter what you're doing, is so huge.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

And it's really hard because I know like money's so emotional. It is and and it has such a shame factor too, because shame's such a big one to work with. It is, and it's and it's a lot of time because it's like you're seeing how other people are living their life, you think. And you a hundred percent. And I think going through like the debt payments, I I don't compare anymore. And actually, I'm very like if someone, I'm like, cool, and then I just like I hope you bought it in cash. Like that's like that's awesome for you. But then I have that little thought where it's like, oh, I really hope you bought that in cash, and or certain things like that, because it's like that is a nice car. Yeah, I think that's so cute. $1,200 for a car payment, get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

Yeah, you know, like flip the flip the mirror, reflect on your own shit, get honest about where you're at. I think that is always step one, especially finances, but that's the scary step people don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

And it is and getting to, and who knows? Like it might not be as bad as you think, but it's also good to know. Like, how many credit cards do you have? Do you have a balance on them? Do you have a line of credit? Yeah, do you have a car payment? And so there's so many people that I don't really they don't realize that a car payment is debt. And it's like it is. I'm not saying it's a I like and some you sometimes you need to. Do you know what I mean? Like you need transportation, especially in Saskatchewan.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Like well, and but it's also looking at what you're making too, because like for some people, they're they're good, yeah, you know. Um, but I think flipping that mirror, but then also the no comparison part a thousand percent because we're in uh I'm excited because even us talking about money is huge because that used to not be a thing. But like, um, yeah, don't assume that the steps people are taking is meaning they're in a good financial position. I think that's so huge.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

But then also flip side, just because you see someone driving this crappy beater of a car doesn't mean that they don't have their shit together. Oh, totally. So it's like it is like I just have stopped judging. Like I don't care because it's like that's your that's your business.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yep, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

And like that's it's not my concern. And it's like you guys also like someone might have a more stable income. Like, someone might have a paycheck where they know they're getting paid every freaking two weeks with a set amount. Hell yeah, do you know what you're saying? Like, if you might have a paycheck, someone might have a consistent income. So, like, if and if so, and if they're okay carrying those payments and doing stuff, like I who am I to just to say that? That's the like that's why I always say personal finance is personal. Well, comfort levels are different, yeah. And everyone has different tools. Like, if we kind of see money as like a tool, yeah, and we under and your income as a tool, and just know just because you don't have a lot of tools, also like it's gonna be harder. Do you know what I mean? And we also have to understand that it's like someone who's doesn't have as much income or has less tools is gonna have a harder time than someone who has more. But that person who has more income can also make a lot of bigger mistakes because they have the ability to make those big purchases and all of a sudden then all of a sudden their big income doesn't feel so big anymore.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

And our our own when you say money is emotional, um it's also like what you've been brought up with, too, right? Because we all have a money story in our head. We lots of us have a lack of head space, or um, we're living in a world right now where we also think everything's within our reach, kind of, because it's the debt mindset, which works for some of those.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

You can get anything and make payments on it, yeah. You can get a hot dog and put equal four equalized payments of 25 cents. Oh my god. Like, do you know that like that's how people get into slippery slopes? A thousand and it's just like this is gonna sound I'm sidetracking. Here's my side quest. Okay, I've been re-watching Little House on the prairie. Okay, like pioneer age, pioneer shit. And I'm just like, yeah, like do you know what I mean? Like, in order to try to get credit back then, you had to make sure the shopkeeper trusted you thought you were a person of do you know what I mean? Like just stuff like it was harder. Yeah, it's not hard anymore. I could sign up my seven-year-old for a credit illegally, but do you know what I mean? Like, there's like there's so many, like you can sign up for credit cards for you could go to like dude, there's so many ways, and there's so many different places to sign up in order to get that convenience. Yeah, it's low-key kind of scary how easy it is.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

And oh yeah, like we've talked to the kids even about the like where you those stores you can go in and get your check in advance. And like, um the kids will be like, what are those places? And whatever they serve their whatever piece in society, but I'm like, okay, so that's just getting your money early and needing to stretch it longer, just so you know, like fuck. And it's predatory, it's so predatory. I hate those.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Like, whenever I see one of them close, I'm like, good riddance. I know. Okay, so knowing your numbers. Yep. Knowing your numbers and just trying to take the emotion out of it. Your income, your income isn't your value. Yeah, your debt isn't your like none of this is like who you are. They're just too, and if you see um budget, your debt, and honestly treat it like math. Yes, it's just math. Yep. And don't and sometimes math is scary. I get it. Like, but I think, but it's not it, this isn't you. This is like, do you know what I mean? Try to take the self out of it. A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

And um it I think money is the same as life. Like some things stretch you out of your comfort zone just so you can grow. Yeah. And as much as you might not want to know what the number is, as soon as you know what your debt number is, you can then work to where you are and where you want to go. Exactly. But if you're leaving gray space, you're also leaving this like piece of anxiety in your body that will just linger and cause more physical shit. So, yes, I agree a thousand percent with the emotional piece. However, there's lots of healing work I literally had to do with money. And I actually connected with um this numerologist that I have a membership with, and I booked a one-on-one session with him, and we dove into this, and he was just talking about how like money is a piece of life. And yes, there's there's just been put so much emphasis on it, which I I don't know. I sit here now being like, money is yeah, it's a part of life, but like, so is taking care of my fucking physical health. And so it's also just taking a little bit of power away from that. But he was just talking about how like we make mistakes with money, like to have an expectation on yourself that you are never going to learn and need to adjust something in finances, that was really huge for me too, because there is that shame fucking wagon that drags behind finances, and shame's one of the heaviest emotions somatically to process. I would say shame is bigger than grief in the in the body and in the soul, and so yeah, that's so huge. It's like it is literally allowing yourself to not let your bank account be like you're a good person, you're doing good.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Yeah, like just because you don't have a lot of income or a lot of money or a lot of assets doesn't mean make you a failure of a human being. But just like having a crap ton of assets, being a billionaire doesn't make you a good human being either. That has so it's just it's just a tool. Some people have more tools, it's meeting yourself, yeah, and just like and just honestly taking a chance to be like, all right, and again, it it is a learning curve. Do you know what I mean? Like even now, because we are consumer debt free, but like I still have to work on the budget. Like I have to still figure out because sometimes like I'm letting my wants kind of overmet my needs, and then it's like, oh, well, that was a little like we didn't like put our energy. You know what I mean? Like it is, it's like money and I hate to say it, but in where we are in life, money is a life source. Yep, it provides us shelter, it provides us food, it provides us how like clothes, it it is our life source, it's a big source of energy, yeah. It is, and then it's like I don't agree it should be, but it it just is where we are, like how it is, and then to be able to like and with money being just the source of how we function in society, there's that pr like there is so much pressure. So if you can't buy your groceries, if you can't get to work, if you can't house your family, like that's such a stress and burden. And to have to look and face that, it is scary.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

So I I agree with that a hundred percent. And yet I also uh I always look at I really try the emotion piece of being like I'm grateful that I can purchase my food. Like I I do really try to swing the gratitude piece. I actually had my own little emotional breakdown last week because I've really shifted my income this last two months into health and holistic shit isn't covered by anything like health, right? So it's out of pocket, and so there's like a procedure that my one kid just needs done. There, I booked a naturopath, I did naturopathic blood work, I have switched my meal plan up, um, and just like booked my son with a new naturopath. It's all out of pocket, it's fucking heavy, but I also sit with it and go, okay, I'm grateful for the opportunity to figure this out. I'm also like, universe, if this is the path I'm supposed to be going, like please support me with the financial piece of that. Um it's still heavy. Like I think the piece is like. Like the finance piece can always still feel like a lot. Yep. But I think when the intention is there and you open up your I've had to open up my energetics to be like, things are an exchange. Yeah. So when I, if I'm investing in my health, it feels heavy right now because it's also, I feel like I'm going against the system. When I support myself financially in ways that long run will benefit me, but in the meantime, it's fucking hard and heavy. And and so I think I really try to not be like, things are building up because it's like, no, these feel good. When the things you're putting your energy, which is how I view money, into um, that's going to flow back, is how I've had to rewire. If I'm if I'm going to get groceries, they're fucking expensive. What doesn't serve me is going to the grocery store and being like, groceries are so fucking expensive. Energy drop.

SPEAKER_04 45:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

And so yeah, I think gratitude has been a big piece. Not in a way though, where I'm like ignorant to my expenses, but I sit with them and go, okay, these are important to me. How am I navigating this? Because I'm an entrepreneur, what am I going to do to draw and pull the that energy, that money exchange back in? But yeah, I think money can be so emotional and it can also, it's so personal.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Yes. And I I just know for us, we wanted our I wanted more options on how to spend like our money. Does that I didn't want to like be trapped in the cycle of just paying all the bills and just maintaining where we are. So that was another big thing of life was like, let's just be weird, you know? And we did, like, we started to like pay off the debt because yeah, I didn't want to always be sending the money. And actually, like, and I And you want control of where it's going. Yes. And also because I'm so cheap, I hated the idea of giving the bank way more money than what I needed for it. Do you know what I mean? Like the fact where it's like to let your loan go for the full term and all this stuff. Like that to me, I'm like, gives me so much anxiety. But someone like my mom, who was like had a teacher, like teacher steady income, like that type of thing didn't bug her because she knew she'd have a consistency. Yeah. So it was just like that's where like the disconnect was for us. And then I had to really struggle with hold like letting go of money.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Like that was a hard thing. Cause I was like, the saver. Yeah, like the pack rat. Like, do you know what I mean? Where it's like, well, what if this happens? What if this happens? What if like all like the what ifs? Yeah, though. And I wanted to be prepared. Yes, and I wanted to be prepared. And then I had to also learn that you have to spend it to receive it. Yes. It's uh like do you know what I mean? Seeing it like real, like a like you have to give to it in order to get back.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

So when we speak emotion, you were the one who when we're we're on the topic of tools, but so um you were the one that shared about your coloring page. Yeah. And I fucking I'm a coloring page girl with finance because um, first of all, I needed to not feel like I was giving, I was just giving away. And this is why I've had to go energy with money. So when I paid a payment, whether it be, and this is where I had to switch my mind, whether I'm putting $100 on debt or $500 on debt or $50 on debt, fucking whoop whoop. Yeah, and oh yeah, when I made my coloring pages, they're fucking awesome because you can feel you feel success instead of just giving. And you see the visual, like, do you know what I mean? And you get the I'm so visual, yeah. So the coloring pages were really huge for me. I I like have five of them. Yeah, because it's also for like saving. And I just my kids have one. So, okay, that too, tools. If you're a visual person, yeah, and you don't know your numbers, yeah. How hard is it to navigate something without a map? Absolutely. And that's like where I see finances and budgeting as a roadmap, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

Or otherwise you're going blind, or if you have a crap ton of debt, like we started, we had 86,000, like that, like total, that's a big number. Who the hell wants to start walking towards that mountain? Right. Do you know what I mean? Who does? So, like when you see your debt and you see the total, no, like that's so intimidating to see a mountain. So the way we do did it is we did the snowball method. And that's a hundred percent what I would want to tell everybody if they wanted to pay off debt is you start with that baby, start with the bite size. What's your lowest debt? 200 on their credit card? Cool. Let's just focus all your extra energy, all your extra income on that one. Make sure you're paying the minimums, like don't go behind. Yeah, but focus on that one little mountain and then you're done. All of a sudden you're a step higher. And then you don't have that minimum on that debt payment anymore. It's gone. And you can have more income to throw into your next one. Does that make like, do you know what I mean? So it snowballs, and it kind of got addicting. Like, we paid off debt fast because and then when we got to our big car payment loan, oh, that was hard. And we actually regressed. Like we paid off everything except for our car. So then we had a baby because that was pretty. So I was like, listen, we're we've got our shit together pretty good. Had a baby. Well, postpartum brain, I wanted a minivan, so we bought a used minivan, but still we added to our debt. Then we hit something with our minivan. I had to get another car, and I didn't have cash like saved up or anything like that. So I added to it. We ended up going back to we were just under 30 and we got up to 57,000 back into debt again. And like, did you feel like a failure? It sucked so bad. It sucked, it was such an ego, and I almost didn't want to do it again. I was like, Well, we can maintain this. Do you know what I mean? Like, we can we can make these payments, like we're living life. We have two kids now, and it was so easy to get complacent. So we could have just like lived the norm again, you know what I mean? Having those payments, just living because we had our second baby that we wanted, and we were paying all our bills that we needed to. But I just didn't like the idea of limitations for our kids and for our like family and stuff like that. And we just went back to the we went harder, faster on that debt, like on that 50 cent once we did. And we actually did some what people might think would be dumb. Like we got rid of our nicer vehicle and traded it in to in order to get technically a shittier vehicle, but it still suit our family's needs. But then it cut that cut off our debt like by 4,000. Like, we would do things like that where it's like, no, like what do we actually need? And it was, I think our last debt payment once we had both girls, was like, that was our fire. Like we had the fire in it, but we put gasoline for that last when we re-entered that debt journey.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

Can you speak to because this was something I had to own myself too? But so um needing to switch a like it your vehicle isn't lifestyle, but it is. It is because it's really been put up there on the like.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Absolutely. People judge you with what you drive. So do you know what I mean? Like if you see someone down the street and they're driving like with their bumper hanging out, you're you're you're gonna make assumptions.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

So what how did you navigate the like needing to because essentially I hate the I hate the upgrade, downgrade talk? Yeah, because we have that chat with houses, we can get into that, but like you downgraded in society's eyes a vehicle. Yep. So how'd you navigate that? What'd you have to say with? Was it easy?

SPEAKER_01 52:07

It was it was the debt goal. It we just we just saw the numbers. Like we had that visual chart, like my little coloring chart, and we saw it. And I said, if we make this, we get to hear. Like, do you know what I mean? We get the that we're now 75% of our debt is like now done because we knocked off that chunk. And we just wanted that end goal way more than any nice car. We wanted the peace, the freedom. We wanted to be able to take our kids and travel with them. We wanted to be able to just use our income in a way that would provide us with joy, not just out of necessity. So that was our our why, our want. We're bigger than our what people do. And you know what? The car that we downgraded, I'm still driving. Yeah, her paint's chipping, she's she's not looking great. Yeah, we lost, we lost a hubcap in the middle of the.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

We didn't like I think there's also this piece that I always come back to is like, we didn't have brand new vehicles when we were kids. Mom and dad like were doing fine financially. We had a nice house, but like I don't know when that piece of like needing a brand new, I've never had a brand new vehicle, yeah, but like that for me, yeah, I'm jinxed with fucking technology and vehicles. So my rule is I need warranty because I fucking know I'm gonna need it. But we've we've come to this place where like new it's necessary best, even new home. Yeah, like I don't know anyone growing up who had a new home. No, are you kidding? Like, so it and sorry, it does. It comes back to partly what where your values are, where your priorities are, and it's okay whatever you're chasing, just being clear on your roadmap. Or also being okay with that, and being okay with it.

SPEAKER_01 53:56

Like if you like having like I don't want people to be like, well, so I can't have anything nice. No, have nice things, but be at peace with those decisions. And if you're not at peace with those decisions, then maybe let's just look at what, why don't you, you know? So like do it's something where it's like own it. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, if you want something and you are okay and you want to live away like that, I'm not gonna say that you're wrong.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

No, everyone's doing their own thing, but for me, that's it was wrong for me. Like, you know, like that's I think it's validating. This is my why is validating to people that are feeling the heaviness of the finance or the chasing the upgrade. Yeah, we hopped off the chasing the upgrade train a long time ago, and you and I live similar in this regard, but like my house is 110. Um, she's real good to us. Yep. There were many times people were like, Why are you doing rentals? Why don't you just upgrade? Um, like hundred thousand dollars. Now, in saying that, grateful my husband's a contractor because we were lucky in that regard, but also being a contractor in trade is I fucking watch Alan work through shit in the contracting trade and yuck. You you couldn't pay me to deal with that trade and like people's views on what things should cost and stuff. So I sit here being like, we live in an old fucking house, we're in it less the more we the more the kids get older. It's walls and roof. I love it. She's good to us. Vehicles, I don't need a new vehicle. My husband has his own business and needs like so it it comes down to like what your life is and I don't know what your goals are. We want to travel more. Yep. I don't want to, I think I just don't really care about the house piece. But there's I remember feeling like we're not getting ahead. Yep. Like fuck ahead in what though?

SPEAKER_01 56:00

It's true, because it's like there's some things, and I I know like we've had a now that we are in a place where we could start to be more intentional with our money instead of just survive with it. Yes, how old are you? 31. I had to think about that.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

Okay, because like that that's a huge piece too. What chapter of life you're in. It is your 20s, are like trying to get established, I feel like my 30s were fucking hard because you got little people, and they have lots of needs, and you're, I don't know, you're still not really grounded. Going into 40s, I just felt like okay, not that my kids aren't still expensive, there's like a whole other chapter, but I feel like, yeah, in your 30s, you can get more intentional about your direction.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

And yeah, I I like I know people have like, and I think about I think about my 20s because I see how some people live their 20s, and I was like, dang, I mean, that could have been fun, you know, like that could have been fun to have to only worry about yourself and to have. And I didn't. I got married at oh, I think 23 and then had my baby at 24. So, like, that's like perspective. Like that we were young, and I spent my 20s then paying off debt, raising my babies.

SPEAKER_00 57:18

But that is not your norm.

SPEAKER_01 57:20

It's not your norm, but all I'm so glad that having the kid just made us grow up. Like, do you know what I mean? Like having it made you prioritize.

SPEAKER_00 57:29

Yes, maybe it was like and well, and you just spent your time differently.

SPEAKER_01 57:34

Yeah, but it it was like I am like forever grateful that we actually did start our family younger because like in our 30s now being intentional, like I also know it just different stages, like people are in different stages of life and nothing's right or wrong. But it's just like I'm really glad that I was able to have that growing up stage and like being that intentional and intense in my 20s, especially when I had the energy, like you know what I mean, when you have the energy to do so. And I look at my 20s as like not the most fun year. Like, I do know what I mean, where it's like, oh, those are like the fun years. No, but like that was such a big transformative like decade for me. Just seeing where you are from 20 year old to 30, like that's a huge yeah, and I'm so proud of everything that a 20-year-old me did.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

This is the coolest shit because um, I love this about life because everyone has a different perspective. So you've got, I know some 20-year-olds that are like traveling the fucking world, and I'm like, good on you. Yeah, right now, right? Yeah, then I've then I know people. Well, you, so now you're in your 30s, debt-free, is you're like fucking cool.

SPEAKER_04 58:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

And then I know women who have struggled to have kids and are approaching mid to late 30s or 40, and it's so fucking cool because the work they've done in their relationships and the life lessons they have, it's so cool. And that's I it just makes me feel like remember to trust your timing on everything, and that's why I love that there could be so many different topics. Because, did you know? We're talking finance, I'm in my 40s. You spent your 20s paying off debt. I would say my 30s were my inquire debt, just the way life went. Did you know that women tend to like peak or see their biggest financial pieces in their 40s? And lots of them do full like career shifts and everything. Yeah, and I know too, like um 40s.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

I feel like are my 30s and income wise income-wise in our 50s is when we technically like most people make their most money they'll make is in their 50s. So when people are like, Oh, it's too late, you're not. Well, yeah, you know what I mean? Like, there's like You're never too late, it's never too late.

SPEAKER_00 59:41

Yeah, and I remember feeling that too. Okay, I went through I went through this piece too, being like, I'm a business owner, a mother of two, and I'm in my 30s, and I'm fucking struggling with debt. Yep. No, sorry, I need to change that. I wasn't struggling with debt, I was struggling with the reality of debt that had incurred because of circumstances. And yeah, feeling like I fucked up. Yep. Like that wasn't my parents at that age, and now I'm like so grateful, and I knew that that chapter was being put on me so that I could run full tilt and help other people with it later. So this conversation is so cool because it doesn't matter. I did all the things right too. I bought the house. Yeah, I didn't buy a brand new vehicle, but something we had our budget. Al and I were always in our budget, we had savings, and then like life fucking happens. And I yeah, I think it's just really cool to know that finances are always within your power. It takes adjustments, it might make you a little bit uncomfortable, you might have to make shifts. Like, we're this summer, we just had this conversation, but like the summer for me is like, what are we gonna do? Let's plan our little fun shit, but also like chill time, so important, eating healthy in the summer, so fucking important. And apparently we've really focused on health stuff, but grateful for that. But there's like we're not doing the extras. Yeah, we didn't, we're not going on any big trips, and that's where roadmap comes in, though. I think that's just like so huge. And Alan hates when I go, okay, what are we doing for the next three months? Because he just like, I get it. It's hard to, you don't want to like feel like you're planning your life, but you do need a little bit of a roadmap so you can at least plot out where you're going. And I think it's a little bit of a shitty, scary feeling as an entrepreneur just because you're like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

Like there's always a gray area. Cause it's true, it's like not having that consistent paycheck. Because I always said when we were going through the whole process, being like, if we had a paycheck, like we wouldn't know exactly how much we could throw out debt or do those things. Yeah. But also when you have a paycheck, you're limited to what you can make. Well then you also mean like your life looks like I it's give and takes 100%. And like someone like my mom loves a consistent paycheck. Do you know what I mean? Like that's and knowing my life for everybody. And she likes the fact that she has like a pension. I had to be, if I was knew if I was going to do the entrepreneur route, I had to think about insurances, retirement, yeah, things that a normal employer would cover. Yeah. We I I I don't I have to cover.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

So being there's just different pieces all together.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:37

And it just I had to be aware, and I find even with money, even like we have very few, like our minimal, like our payments to live and stuff like that is very minimal.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:47

That's also why we chose to live where we live and do all the stuff. Um, but with it being so minimal, we still have to be active with how we're budgeting. Like we still, we still do our budget talks, even though we have extra things. We still have like our goals and like what are we working towards? Like, what is our next family goal? Is it rentos? Is it are we wanting to upgrade the car? Are we wanting to do a trip? Like, yeah, we're still actively discussing money. It's just a little bit different than when it was when we were paying off debt.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:19

Yes. You still are paying off debt.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:21

I've just our mortgage.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:22

Okay. Just our mortgage. So um, okay. So sticking with our tools and you saying, like, I think almost that roadmap piece and how you're budgeting, because I also know you're a save up cash girl for stuff. Yes. So do you want to run with that?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:40

Yeah. So like we do things, it's called sinking funds. So what we'll do is like if we know that we're wanting to do something, um, we have like our little saving chart or whatever, and we're whenever we throw money in for that intention, we kind of mark it off. So, like if we want to do a reno, like we're wanting to build a deck or something like that, we'll get a quote, get rough, and then we'll know the saving, like a target goal. And then that's like then we'll just more intentional with putting money away that year. So instead of just like figuring out, like, oh, well, I want it, like we just we're just more intentional. Like we really put the focus, and I think that's why we're able to achieve stuff because we're not just living hoping like, well, we could do this, we could do it's like what we're putting on our money. Yeah, like what do we want our money to do for us? Yeah. And like, how do we want to do that?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

And you know, it's a forethought versus a like oh, trying to fit within. Yeah, it's like a manifestation almost.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:39

Yeah, and it's just a hundred percent. It's just like you're targeting your energy on what you want to accomplish in that time. Yeah. So, like when you're doing the debt snowball, you're targeting that lowest debt. And then when it's gone, you just go the next one. Like you, it's easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:49

I actually found now that's the opposite of what you'll get lots of guidance about, though, is starting with your highest debt, your highest interest, and pinwheeling backwards.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:59

Yeah, so that's the avalanche. It's if you do like your like 100%, like your biggest, like your interest rate, and you do that because you're paying that, but you're not breaking behavior. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, do you know how like how much you've like, you know, when you have that debt gone, man, that's like it's gone. Like, like, oh sorry to speak, but like you're like, you're it's gone. You don't have to think about that. And that's huge. That's all you care about. And you're changing behavior because you you're getting the gratification of accomplishing something. Because when you are just throwing money at a large target, if let's say it's the highest interest rate, okay, fine, but like that's 40 grand. Like that's 40,000 of the debt versus like your $1,000 credit card that you had. Like, you know, and then when that's gone, it's done.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:43

So I would say though, then it's also a mindset piece. It is because yeah, because I go the opposite way. Yep. Probably because I'm a banker's daughter. And that fucking shit's so instilled in me. But I'm this is where we're both like excited because I'm like, oh my god. Because um I've had to also align with what fires me. Yeah. Because we've had, we were just having this conversation, like RRSPs. I've invested in RS RRSPs forever. I've invested in RESPs forever. Um, I'm gonna sit here and everyone can have their own opinion, but I actually am buying into that shit less and less. And so I pulled some RRSPs, which is like I was brought up and the world is like, you did what? And no, I didn't fucking pull RRSPs or put extra money in for the whole tax fucking benefit shit because that doesn't matter to me. And I don't care if that's wrong, it's just not on my radar. Yeah, but I pulled some RRSPs to pay off some debt. Yeah. And for me, that was fucking liberating and mattered to me now. Yep. Because I live in a mindset where we're planning for the future, yes. However, the current state that I'm in and how I'm taking care of myself now and what aligns for me is what fucking works for me. And health, we both had that health scare piece that has also validated that. Well, I'm uninsurable. Okay, and we, yes, so both of us are insured to a point, and because of health stuff, are no longer able to be worth more. No, essentially, unless we're living. And fuck, seriously, and so that was a huge smack in the face, and then I was like, um, no, I will make investments in however I need to and do with my money after doing my own digging though, too. Because I just like, yeah, I think there's this big financial platform, and I I have people in my life that do that work for a living, and I'm super grateful for the insights they can throw my way. But I I just think I love that for you, like the snowball versus the avalanche, because what fucking works though.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:56

And the avalanche, technically, like the avalanche, like the way you're saying it, mathematically, you're right. That's the most correct. Mathematically, behavior-wise, though, it's just really nice to get those wins.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:05

But that's what I mean. So it's fucking working for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:08

Yeah. And it's so I would recommend before anyone tries to tackle the big mountain, unless you're just like gun ho, like trails burlazing, like, nope, you're good to tackle that. Just take those little bites first. Take about and then make them gone. And then I always try to like remind myself and others who are like wanting to do the process. Sometimes not going into debt is the win. Not paying it off. Just sometimes just not adding to it. Like, if you're in a stage of life, like I had to remind myself that too when like when we were like post babies, or like when you're not working as much as you did, is like not adding to my debt, that's a win on its own. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:47

Like I fucked up in that. And Alan and I have had this conversation. So my business, I was bare minimum there because um because COVID rules, I wasn't gonna tell people they couldn't come in because of decisions. So I stepped back and just let my business kind of exist and do bare minimum. I homeschooled that year, I took some courses that year. What I did though was tried to maintain the life for my family on my end. And for me, it was a I already felt like Alan was carrying us during COVID. So I didn't want to add, like, hey, like I can't this, this, this. So I wheeled myself into a little bit more debt because I didn't want to drag us down, which was like I don't know, I'm fine with it now because at the same time I was investing. I signed up for a course, I was investing in myself, and now that is why I have what I have and why I'm in the position I'm in, because I let myself have worth and value, even in a season where it was like, I'm not worth anything. Yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:01

And I don't I think too, like debt, and I want people to hear debt doesn't make you bad. Sometimes you do need it. It is a tool. It's just be my like it's just more so like be mindful of the tools you are using.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:11

I think it's also just your relationship with it. Yeah. If you have if it feels bad for you, then yeah, steer a different direction.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:19

Or if it is to the point, or just I would just be sort of use your tools wisely because just because the bank will says you could have it too, doesn't necessarily mean it'll actually be worth like good work with your budget. Do you know what I mean? Like just because you can take out another like this money doesn't necessarily mean it might be the wisest choice. Or also just like I find paying off debt and being debt or trying to best to say no to it, it forces you to get creative. Like it's like, do I really want this? Do I need to? Do I need it right now? Can it wait two weeks? Is there something I can do now to so that I can pay for what I need next month? And I just know that we live so like as a society, everything's so fast, so now that it's hard to just take a like to sit back and be like, okay, but do I want to? You know? Like, do I or do I need to? Like, is this a necess? And truly figuring out, like, is this a necessity right now? Yeah. Do I need blinds? No father. Do you know what I mean? Like stuff like that. Like, does that is this a purchase I have to make right now? Yeah. When you're kind of like making those decisions and like the debt paying off process, that delayed gratification is something that has like helped me. And I really hope it helps our kids because they get to see like we can get that, maybe not right now. Did you know what I mean? Like, I like them to know like that that it is like it is a possibility, but just might take time and energy.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:46

It's also then something that matters to you. Yeah. Because then you're you're putting the energy into it versus I know I've really dialed back on even what I buy. And I'm I've I have the in a year from now, is this fucking thing gonna matter to me? And I literally fucking hardly buy anything because will it?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:08

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:09

And do I need new has been I'm like really embracing my grandparents because right? Because the thrifty, I love the thrift and they love the second hand, and like I'm also the earth nerd that like don't throw it out. Yeah, so like other people's things they don't want anymore that I'm only if I'm needing it, and actually I won't gradu sale because I don't fucking need to come home with shit that I don't need. And I'm careful with my thrifting, but I yeah, like what I buy, and I try to do that with my kids like in two weeks. Yep. Are you gonna care about this? Yep, my son, you build Lego and then you don't look at it. Yeah, is there something else we can do? Or can we just you know, like and I know it's hard with kids, it is hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:56

It is really hard with kids, and I have like little kids too, like seven and four. They love the shitty little knickknacks, they love the crappy little plastic toys that don't last and stuff like that. And it's a thing of yeah, like that's a hard thing to teach them, especially kids, because they like the little things, and you know what? And I won't lie, I like buying it for them too. And I know that it like brings on that little bit of joy, but also I like moderation. It is, but I also love it when they're ready to give to another kid, yeah. Yeah, you know, so it's like it's a it's it's a kids make it so hard, but in the in a better way. Does that make sense? Like, because they want they want stuff now. Do you know what I mean? Like waiting for Christmas first things or anything like that for a kid, that's eons away. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:45

That was us though.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:46

But including like I waited for that Sears catalog to come out to circles things.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:51

Like, do you know what I mean? And to know you probably weren't gonna get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:53

No, but it's like but it's like, but like I just remember as a kid like getting the catalog and circling all the things. Now it's like my kids see stuff, and then it's like, and trends change so rapidly. Certain things like they go, so it's like they hate our trendy ass fucking world with so yuck. But it's like that's like it's such a fast pace that it's just kind of nice to take a sec to slow down to be like, well, you know, do you really want this? And sometimes we do the old let's take a picture so that we can curate your list to Santa and all this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:26

And also manifest, because if it's meant for you, yeah, then it's like you put the energy in and you'll do the work to create whatever that is. Yeah. Um, okay, we were talking when you said like having tools, I just wanted to say if you don't have a bunch of tools, yeah, get some. Yes. Because we are not taught about finance, like they're starting to add, I believe, into high school. I took accounting, I fucking loved money. My relationship with money was awesome. But then when I got into some struggles, A, I didn't want to ask for help. And I think that's lots of people. Um, so I did my own digging and like started I started doing some podcasting and I followed um, I listened to a Ramsey podcast. Um, I just love what I got from all of the podcasts because that was kind of the avenue I went into, and finding tools like my coloring pages and my whatever works for you too. But um was just the having a big mortgage or having a mortgage doesn't need to be normalized. Having a car payment doesn't need to be normalized. You don't need to have a visa or a credit card. Um, I'm also entrepreneurs, so cash is fucking king. But um, yeah, I think just like sharpening your tools. And then I started, I found a couple of Canadian finance podcasts because let's be honest, it's different, it's different and it matters. And so um I was just I really thought savings and RRSPs and all of the investing. Investing is important, but um, so is however you need to build a relationship with money and whatever matters to you. So yeah, I think just like finding some tools, are there any other tools other than what we kind of talked about? Um, for me, it was breaking down the norms, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:27

And also finding ways to save, like using your points for stuff and and I think finding community is a big thing to help you with any of those processes.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:40

Cause like to find someone who doesn't think you're crazy or to cheer you on, to be like you're doing a good work, and it's really hard when people don't align or go like work with what like who don't agree with, like, I don't wouldn't do that, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:53

So to find people I would agree with that a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:56

And I just happened to find mine in like an online community with people who follow like the Dave, like the Ramsey like network and all this stuff, and that's how I found our community where we could share our wins and our progress because I found it wasn't as accepted or didn't receive as well from our peers or from family, it was a very well good for you, and it was like kind of a back, it wasn't a support.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:21

It's a finding just people with like-minded views, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:24

Right. So, like I think finding that source of community is gonna help with any tools because if you're going through this alone, like and you have no one to bounce ideas off of to know what to be like, if this is hard, like is this normal?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:35

Like it's no different than healing work, yeah, it really isn't. It's just another avenue of health and wellness. Finance is huge, yeah. And yeah, I love that. I ended up doing um actually while I was on holidays, I sat in our trailer in Cypress Hills and um joined this online women's, it was like just an educational masterclass kind of thing. And it was free. And of course it was like trying to get you to buy into the programming, but I was like, there'll be takeaways. And yes, it was about how women women are typically better with money when we disconnect from our emotional piece of it. Let's also say though, that's generational for us because we were financially and physically like our homes and we were the people that stayed home with the kids. So finances weren't our piece, and it was a man's world for such a long time.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:32

So there was so long where we couldn't even have like does what I mean, like we were seen as property, so no fucking wonder we had lack of mindset, lots of us though.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:40

But so it was women focused, which I fucking loved. Um, and then it was just talking about like ways to make passive income because passive income is so huge. Um and so like that was a piece of looking into where I was putting my money and also owning my fucking power. Um, Al and I kind of I feel like so we talked about a passive income purchasing another property. For us, it makes sense because we can do the work to fix up, but then also my strength in that is the manifesting. Like that's that's a huge piece of a woman's world, is like coming up with a plan and then us putting the energy out there and literally manifested this exact place that we wanted. And so for us, it was purchasing a rental property. Do we have 13 of them? No, that's not where we're at, but like purchasing a duplex, living in half of it was what was on in this conversation, and it was like that's a great way for someone to start with a passive income, but just like sharpening tools, but also just like learning more and learning about um how like small amounts of debt payment and small amounts of investing count.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:02

It does, it and it like it does and it adds up, you know. You don't have to drop a thousand dollars on a payment, like on a or like on your any type of payment for it to make a difference, yeah. You know, like it's just the intention and it's consistency, it is like just taking small bites out of it's not a sprint, and and for like as much as we like want to get it as fast as things, it's not a sprint.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:27

And there's allowed to be hiccups along the way, that's been a huge one. So on my financial tracking sheets over the last few years for my like debt management and paying off vehicles and whatever, um, I've had, I know my couple months in business that can be a bit of a stretch. And so in my like debt payment stuff, I caught my behavioral habit. And it was if I couldn't make the full payment that I had kind of budgeted and put into my schedule, I just wouldn't make any payment. And it was like, oh, like, and sorry, this wasn't like making a vehicle payment. It was my like compound monthly coloring sheet square. If I couldn't color the whole square, then I wouldn't pay it, and then I'd feel failure. And so then it was like, okay, you just need to make either smaller chunks. Like I had to redo one of my coloring sheets because it was like things have shifted, my payment amounts need to be different. And so now I'm I love the snowball piece because I did always feel like if I wasn't doing the big payment that I told myself I was gonna make, yeah, and honoring that like shit comes up, yes, that's where I needed to adjust and it's made a huge difference. But I've also like I have I'm very motivational with my finance stuff and I have little sayings along my sheets. And I do too. And like if you look back over the last couple of years, it'll be like a section where things didn't go as planned, and I'll like leave a note being like, Life fucking happens sometimes, but you're still killing it. But it's like you need to have that same mindset as you're working on a health journey and you're trying to move your body more. It's the fucking same thing except that it's money. Yes, and it's building up your changing your relationship with how you view money and your worth. I think that's just and it's something that's not gonna go away.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:22

It is like it's like food. Do you know what I mean? Like someone who's like, if you struggle with like stuff and you just it's it's it's very similar. It's all the same, and you're just practicing these habits, and you're also practicing forgiveness for yourself when you do, like you have to give yourself grace, but you also have to be strong, disciplined, like disciplined, yeah, and it's in where it's like, hey, I fell back or I did things, and also not a failure, shit happens, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:48

Things break from where you left.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:50

Like people get sick, things break, jobs are losses. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's life happens, money will always like, and money, it's something you're gonna have to live with anyways. So start building the muscle. Yeah. And just start practicing with it because it's not gonna go away.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:08

Yes. So um, I would love if you would touch on this too. Um, I don't know if I have anything else. I do I would just say sharpen your tools. If you don't have any tools, don't have shame about that and just start digging.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:20

Yep. Um, or also and be also um to be brave of any skills that you might have. Um, that could also be used. And I hate being like, don't monetize hobby, but sometimes if you're going through debt and you need a goal, like, what is there something you're good at? Are you really good at painting? Could you paint someone's wall? Like, do you know what I mean? Like, don't dismiss these little acts of talent or motivations that you have because there's people out there who don't want to do it. Do you know what I mean? So to also give yourself like some pep and some like, oh, but I have this uh skill set, I could do this thing. Step outside the box a little bit. And I I just maybe it's just the entrepreneur in me because I'm like, no, I think like you could do something. Like I really believe people could do something, it might be harder for some, but everyone's good at something.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:07

Yeah, everyone's good at something, everyone has a skill to share. It doesn't have to be your everything, it can just be a step.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:13

And even as a season where it's like something where it's like, like I remember I was baking for the and I was trying to sell my baking, and then like now I just I don't. Do you know what I mean? But for a season, I was selling my baking to be able to add a little bit extra and all those things.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:30

Ellen and I have had this conversation because as an entrepreneur, or no, just even how the world is, it is like a as soon as you get a hobby, there's an avenue for income. Yes, and Ellen's like, I said, Oh, you could be like selling your pottery and this, this, this, this, this. And then he's found lots of videos and I love it, but it's like it can also be your hobby. Yeah, 100%. Like so on both sides of that, but it is that is a thing though, too, is like having a hobby. If you're sometimes we always feel like it needs to be then an at a stream of income. But yes, sorry, not to disminish that.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:06

No, but it's more so like if you do have that skill set, it's okay to like offer it to people. And you know what I mean? Even not offer it. Yeah, it's something that you don't have to do forever. But if there's like, hey, I'm doing my budget, I'm short 200 bucks. Yeah, how can you go make two? Could you sell something? Could you create something? Could you offer a service? Like, and I'm just delusionally optimistic now that I really think that I don't know, like I just I really feel like there is a way out. Even if we people who think that there isn't, like just don't close doors.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:39

Keep doors like just keep knocking or keep putting it.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:42

Be curious about where there might be opportunity. It might make you change and shift, but like And also it might not be, and it's it's uncomfortable. It'll look different.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:50

Do you know what I mean? Like, I when we were paying off the debt, I didn't love working at the school full time and then trying to do sessions and shoots and eat. Like, I didn't I remember crying in my car because I was barely seeing my kid. Like it was hard. Like, I I'm not it's not easy, but it is like the other side of it has been unbelievably peaceful. Like I am optimistic. I just like I don't like even though we live in a very small town, we our house is if we were to sell it on a good, like maybe get 150, which for a house is like low. Do you know what I mean? For today's standards, but like we could we could go anywhere. I really feel like we could do anything. I have I I'm not trapped, I'm not stuck in a system where I have to make payments. I just see opportunities now. Yes, and that's like the type of peace. And like, I've I just haven't felt this like joyful in any part of my life. And I do think the financial component of not being chained to payments has been the like the lift for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:57

There's also very much a freedom in ha in valuing less, yeah. Which I'm learning more and more because I love the posts that you see on social media that are like, who told us this is happiness? And it's like purses and cars and all the things, and it's like when this was it all along, and it's like a couple walking hand in hand and like a family playing together, and it's like, oh, it is, and again, it's just where you're at. But I feel like we're speaking to like-minded people who are I think it's also the permission slip for that to be allowed, and sorry, coming back to that community piece, just I very much I had resources that I could have reached into. I I a hundred percent agree, I didn't feel necessarily like they understood my perspective. Like, okay, first of all, I don't want to talk money, no offense, but with someone who isn't an entrepreneur, not that I can't hear you out, because I have lots of clients. That work for people, but like um but I don't want to talk about my financial situation with someone who has a steady paycheck because I think there's just different my mindset. Like there's something that I'm really working towards right now, it's super small, like under $500. But I'm like, okay, um, I would really love that. I'm not going to purchase unless I have that cash in my hand. And so what, yeah, I'm like, what offering can I toss out there? And if it comes back to me and that item is still available, then it was meant to be. That's kind of where I am. And my daughter keeps being like, Did you have you reached out about this? Have you reached out about that? And I'm like, you know what? I'm just waiting. Yeah. Because I am now also in a space with finances where I'll throw it to the universe, this is what I'm looking for, this is what I'm wanting. But then, like, if it can't be met, we did the same with when we put an offer in on on land. It's like, okay, if things aren't flowing to come together, I'm gonna trust that it's not meant to be. And but it is things that are small.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:12

But what I'm not willing to give up is health stuff. That's like currently the chapter I'm in. But that's also your values. But that's also if I don't have my fucking health. Yeah. I got nothing. Yeah. I can't work. I can't, you know. But yeah, I think it's I don't even even know.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:27

But you know, and if some people value like again, like purses and things, like I nothing wrong with it. There is nothing wrong. I just don't. Yeah. I just it's it literally doesn't I don't want a collection of purses. I would like to have a bare minimum wardrobe, like a bunch of things. And it's not necessarily like I'm a minimalist. So if you come to my house, I got little collections of knickknacks, but it's they mean something to me. Like, do you know what I mean? Like it's just being again that intent it's intention. It's it's making sure that you're buying it because it it is something you want. You took a you thought about it, like having a thought, like taking a second to be like, why do I want this?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:04

Yeah, you know, but finding people that have the same mindset, and so it was the same with guidance. Like, I knew in this masterclass there was a bunch of women that like had fucking like we're there was, I'm sure, multi-million dollar women hosting this. And so, like, I'm taking the tools away. I know we're not living the same life and we might have different values, but also some of the people in my life that I would have reached out to, not that they would have judged me, I just don't feel like they would have fully understood my how I navigate things. And it's not that I'm not willing to, I love to hear out from people who even work in the finance world, their angle. Because I do like to go, okay, this is one person's suggestion, this is another person's, but I this is why our conversation together, because I know women who own their own businesses or are maybe struggling with the financial piece, just because it's more relatable.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:03

And I can't get advice from someone who just has um depends if they can meet you. But you know what I mean? Like, I think that community piece is huge. And don't like Dave Ramsay, I like some takeaways, but I'm also like I don't agree with a hundred things, like like I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:20

It's takeaways. It's it's more so like there's certain yeah, exactly. And I liked it, like there's there's certain principles or certain things where it's like, oh, I like how you do that, or I would do things like this. And it's just like I didn't go in blind, or I didn't go in just like as a blind follower, you know. I listened and then I adapted and I took what it was. So if I were to ever call, he'd be like, You didn't do the plan, you were Dave-ish. And I'm like, Yeah, but you know what, it worked for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:46

Well, you know, like that's that's just it too. Yeah, like I had to sit down with someone who I really respect and figure out my COVID debt because I had taken the loan and it kept my doors open, and I'm super grateful for it. But in that, I also had big emotions come up. There were parts of me that were like, okay, you like totally ignored this piece, and that's okay, but now it's something that you have to tend to. And these are things that I am proud of that I did right, and they might be different than what someone in the finance world would have been like, you shouldn't have signed up for a course, you didn't have money, but like it was an investment in me. Yep, it's changed my life, it was for my own healing, whatever. But so owning that shit and being held in space with someone who had a different perspective, but just wanted to hear my position was also helpful for me because I had to own my shit. You know, like I think it's so important just to like give yourself opportunity to get advice from different places, also do your own digging, find your community, and then figure out what works for you at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:56

And then I would also encourage couples, yes, okay, and I wanted to go to this. Uh, if you aren't, let's say you don't have like the people or the community to do a bunch of stuff, but you have a spouse, yeah, that like Taryn and I were our community for the most part. Yeah, you know, and like like that's a big part of I think any financial success, especially in a marriage, because you like you're two individual, but if you guys are like different goals, do you know what I mean? Like if like and not aligned or not coming together, like you're not talking about stuff and you're just like going on your own, that's heavy, like that's hard. And if you have you, if you are like, if you pick someone who'd be your life partner, especially like do you know what I mean? Like you obviously trust them and you do your thing. Um so be like like open those doors of communication. And I like that's and it's so hard too, especially when it's like like I know there's a lot, like I know many couples who like separate accounts and everything, and it works for them, but then they also like no like nobody's and that's hard because it's like you really don't know. And it's like that's a scary place to be. So like always like the start those communication doors with your spouse, like your partner is like pro like that they might be the best community and teammate that you could have like opened the door to.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:15

Yes, and that's I love that you brought that up because I am really grateful for women I've supported who have had to sorry, not supported financially, but just energetically, who like face bankruptcy because of shit beyond their control. Yes, and or fuck even for me, like health problems that then I can't work to the same capacity. And so then needing my partner to support and and we you and I even run shit very different in our families, like Alan and I both own our own businesses, they're different. Yeah, um, the income they make is different, the expenses on on them are different, we trust each other with them. At the end of the day, though, you have to also be able to have conversations because their debt is your debt. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:02

At the end of the day, like I know, and it totally makes sense for someone like we're like like you guys have your own because you have your own business.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:07

It is also hard though, and you're really hoping each other are good. So you open the door for conversation. We come together, not with numbers. Um, I feel like that's probably a place we'll slowly get to. Yeah. For me, I didn't want to talk money in some regards because I for the longest time had shame about it. And then when I had to deal with some stuff, I had to be like, Okay, Alan, like this is the situation, blah, blah, blah. We come together and go, like, he's doing a doing a reno on our garage, doing siding. I'm like, okay, are you good for that? And then it's like, are you good with paying for the medical stuff? And what I needed to own in that was saying no, if no is my answer, and figuring out. So we come together for household stuff a hundred percent. Um, we have a budget, the kids see our budget, it's posted in our house. They go through our receipts and figure out what we spent on everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:06

I love that to be a family activity.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:08

I pull the kids sometimes and they'll help me with my bookwork so that they know because we're really open. Like, this is what I made this year, but these were my expenses, and then they're like, What? This this is like you made that much money. I'm like, Yes, but this is this. Like, and these are my taxes, and so we we navigate that as much as we can as a family. Um I pay the bills, Ellen. Like, we communicate in our joint account in that regard, but from a business perspective, we're separate. And I think I don't know, I I feel like over time we'll shift that a little bit, but yeah, there's I don't know, there's also a like protection piece of your business, which is kind of hard to explain, but like I also I trust Al with his business, I don't need to know all your shit. You trust me with my business, I don't need to know all your shit, but we do check-ins on like, are you good? Yeah, that's yeah, that's because if you're if you aren't good, let's figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:09

Absolutely. Yeah, um, Taryn and I, because we are like true partnership, like business, do you know what I mean? We're true shifty, so everything is literally like we we see like he knows the password to everything kind of thing. Do you know what I mean? Like he there's no um hiding. There used to be, and that was the big thing about like how we had to change things. Actually, it was low-key one of our ultimatums before we were even engaged or anything, is he was trying to figure things out on him, like on his own, which is you know what I mean? Because it's like we weren't we weren't married, but he wouldn't tell me. And then we were I got a phone call one day and the bank said you didn't get approved. And I was like, What were you trying to do? And he was trying to figure out ways to just like pay bills and figure out how to survive. Like he ended up going to school again in order to get student loan debt in order to help us live out in Vancouver. Like I didn't realize how bad. And granted, we were dating, I shouldn't have known.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:06

He was trying to keep the shit together, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:09

He was trying to figure it out, and that's like such, and now I couldn't imagine like that, like the how much have how heavy that is for one person to kind of figure it out on your own.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:17

So, like and he didn't want to be a failure in it. Yes, because that was me during COVID. It was like, hey.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:22

We I remember us, I remember the big conversations. Like, listen, if we want to do like marriage and things and not just be dating, I was like, I we can't do the hiding. Like, we have to be in the know, and it wasn't everything, like all the dirty secrets. There's this thing, there's this credit card, and it was hard to process, but man, that's a hell of a lot easier to go into knowing what you have. So, like, it's easy, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:45

Have a partner in debt though, and not know where they're at. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:48

And he and he hid that for the longest. Like his student loan debt, like he um, my debt was significantly less, but also I we had different mindsets when it came to money. Yep. So, like, and then trying to figure that out together once the marriage thing was hard. Like, I didn't want to combine money with him for a while. He wasn't responsible in my eyes. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:08

And I didn't want So why do you think he didn't want to share it with you? Exactly. Because he didn't want you to think that 100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:15

100%. And like I I I get it now. And it's like now that we have the perspective, like, I couldn't imagine him not knowing. Do you know what I mean? Like, I love not having as many meetings or conversations and stuff like that for us because of like where we are in our life. But it's also now, it's truly everything is together. Like, yeah, our bit like our business is our business because it's we're a team. Yeah, like we don't have two separate identities, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:39

The the piece about that, because I know several people where one partner's trying to tend to debt, and the other there's so many layers to that because there's also the like, are you both making the same amount of money? And if you're not, then like one person on debt can get further ahead and the other person's not. A hundred percent. And so at the end of the day, it's no different than like living by yourself or living with a partner. Yeah. Because when you are with someone, you're sharing stuff. Yeah, that's a whole other topic, I feel like the whole like how are things being split?

SPEAKER_04 1:40:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:14

Um, that's a huge conversation you have to have too. And especially, I'm sorry, if you I went from working and making most of the money because I was working and side hustling, to then being home with kids for eight years and like still feeling and Alan was never a 50-50, that's not how we work, because I'm not making the same, but everyone's different in that regard. However, if someone is like carrying debt and trying to take care of it by themselves, you think that you are doing your partner a favor, but that other partner's sitting over there fucking carrying the worries. Yeah. About you know what I mean? Yeah. And that's where, again, it's energy because they're feeling the heavy energy of like, how are we, like, where are we at with this?

SPEAKER_01 1:41:05

And there's one thing too, because I'm the type of person that I will check my bank account probably almost to the point where it's like compulsion kind of thing. Like it's a problem, and I'm trying to work on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:16

Do you is it celebrating? Is it worrying? Is it both?

SPEAKER_01 1:41:19

No, it's just I like to just be in the know. I want to know like, what are we spending like? If there's anything wrong, it's not, it's just it's just it is excessive. Do you know what I mean? Like, I like to check like too much. Like, I just made a purchase. You know how much is on the credit card. Like, do you know what I mean? Or you know how much just came out of your account, like that sort of thing. Um, and he would always have to remind me and be like, where are we at? Like, I forget now because I check so often, he and he doesn't, that we have to do those check-ins now where it's like, are we? I'm like, oh yeah, I'm sorry. I have been in my own head.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:48

Kate, you want to know something? I had taken a course on this, and so um, I'm not saying this is how it always is, but for women who manage finances, or I want to say whoever the partner is that manages finances, it's usually because they're a little bit more controlling, but also um they it's a trust piece, right? Yeah, and how important it is, like the suggestion was you should let your your partner take care of the finances for a bit. And like I fully trust, and I this stirred up the conversation with Alan. Like, do you want to be paying the bills? And he's like, Well, not fucking really. Like, I can, but it's just another thing. But also, our shit's literally printed and I check it off and like it's filed. Anyone, Male, Braxton, Ellen, could all go and look at what was paid when like it's all there, there's nothing hidden. And he was like, No, I'm good with you doing that. However, if you have a partner who's working through the finance, like or has old wounds with money, make sure he's not feeling like he can't be trusted. Oh, yeah, and that's why I love that you're doing the check-ins because it can come down to then being like, oh, I can't be trusted with money. She's on it. Or, or the woman had an issue with money and now it's like, oh, he's he's the one in charge because he's the one that's good with it. But it's like creating that balance. So I love that you guys do the check-ins and we too.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:18

And we do like, I know it's not very sexy, but we do like those weekly, like we'll do like a like a meeting and kind of thing, like check a month and be like, what like what goals are we like where do what are we working towards? Yeah, like what do you want to do? And we have those things, and everyone has like uh his voice matters just as much as mine. Do you know what I mean? And we really take, and you know what? Sometimes we even include the kids. Yeah, they're little, not so much, but like we'll be like, we're wanting to work towards this as a family. And our big thing that they get to see is usually our trip goals. Yes, so and then they like so they like to see where it's like, oh, are we doing this? And like they get little tunies or something, and they'll be like, Mom, we could put this towards the trip. Like they see like the saving goals and stuff like that, or things, and it's just it's really nice that it is a collaborative.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:05

Yeah, I think it's important. Yeah, we were looking at we always just kind of have our eyes open for if there's like another um property that we could purchase. And uh, I said something about a property, and Maile's like, uh, or we could go on a trip. I'm like, okay, I hear you, I understand this. I also know the demands because when if we purchase something, our kids were over there helping. Like it's not, it's not just mom and dad are doing this. This is an investment for our family and whatever. But yeah, I'm like, okay, this is what we have to look at though. Remember, like purchasing a property, yes, it's not instant money, but like this is how you can start to see some income and changes. I'm like, I get it though. I get that you're like, all you guys are fucking doing is long-term stuff. I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:59

Or it's like what we're trying to like, what we put on our little chart when we're like investing in like their education or like their like our retirement that we like put like mark there. Yeah, and then it's like, why don't you put it towards the trip? Yeah, and then we kind of have to explain what these are for.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:13

And then sometimes they're good reminders though, too. Like when she said that, I was like, fuck, I know. We do need to go on a family trip. And then so then it started the conversation of like this is probably what it'll cost. We've done some digging into, we've already said to the universe, like, yes, we would like to eventually do this and this. This is about what the cost is, this is where we need to go. And again, creating that roadmap. So then, but then it's like the conversation of, okay, so if we wanted to do it here, how much would we need to save a month? And like, where, if we're putting money towards that, where are we pulling back and like what's coming up? Like, yeah, just like I like to have those conversations.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:53

Are we working more? Does that mean I'm gonna have less time? Like all those things, like that's it's a it's a give and take. But I also think teaching is so important and our youth, like, do you know what I mean? Like that, as like especially our child kids, that it's like, yeah, um, our energy is in exchange for money. So unfortunately, don't agree with it, but it's just where society is. Um, and then how are you gonna use that money and tools? So it's like, are you going to put more energy into work in order to get these things? Do you want to stick back? Like, do you know what I mean? Like to have them be able to witness that. And I think like I low-key love that our kids have entrepreneurs as parents, because when they get like a regular part-time job or something, like not a student, like a student job, and they're gonna like it's gonna be a mind because they I don't think they realize how often we're around them. Yeah, oh I know. Do you know what I mean? Like, I think I was like, reality's gonna hit, and I kind of hope it does, and I hope that maybe they do follow the entrepreneur. I don't know. I don't know what my kids, but like I really I'm curious. I'm curious. I wonder if they'll do the trades or like all this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:52

Like Okay, but on the flip side of that, I also know the shit that's annoyed my kids about us being entrepreneurs. Oh. Because there's a whole other piece of that. There's a work is always kind of going.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:07

Um, we could be on holidays and there's still phone.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:10

100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:11

Um for me, I've had a studio, so there's they fucking hate going to the studio because they know I'm gonna be two hours and they're gonna they're gonna have work to do or they're gonna have to wait around for me. So there's like pieces of it I know they love. Yep. And there's pieces of it that I know they're like, fuck mom and dad, and they're stupid businesses. But it's just conversations and choices, and I also really can't see my kids working for someone though, either.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:39

Uh, but I think I might maybe it's just our entrepreneurial brains because I'm like, I'm always picturing. I'm like, what kind of business are you gonna have? Oh, yeah. Without realizing if it's like they might just want to be a nurse or a child. I don't think just that's an important job. I'm just saying that's like they just might have like a normal, yeah, or like an actual proper route to look at.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:56

Don't give a shit what you do. Yeah, but yes, I know. Because it life looks very different when you work for yourself or you work for somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:05

It is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:05

There's the gives and the takes. Um one thing about kids and money that okay, I've really had to pay attention to when I did some healing work, just my relationship with money. I did tapping and like daily affirmation stuff with finances. Um, I know I'm coming from a lack of kind of mindset. I feel like if you were a 90s kid, we were all lack of mindset. Um, but is catching myself being like, I don't have money. Yes, like the same, because and then the kids get worried about. And so Melee, um, she how I manage my kids is they they aren't allowed a debit card. Um, they we're getting to a place where I almost need one for May so that she can um have money or me be able to send her money, like if she's on a school trip or whatever. But so we're cash. And so why? Because then you can see your spending. I think that's just like so fucking huge. So she has cash. However, they have a savings account. So if they get money for Christmas or Melee Babysits and someone e-transfers, it goes into a savings account. And so she'll be like low on cash and she'll be like, I have no money. And I'm like, stop. You do have money, it's not in your cash bank thing. Um, don't say you don't have money. You always have some money, but it's also, yeah, me catching myself. She asked me for something the other day, and like we're in summer, and so extras like I might be able to do that for you, but I don't know because I'll say that's not where my money's going right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:52

Or like, that's not a priority right now. It's I've really had to be careful that I don't go. We can't afford that. We've enough money for that. Because if we needed to, we could make things work. And like she's got a dental thing coming up and saw the price for it. I'm like, don't worry about it. Like that is something where I go, okay, this is a cost. It's in the future. Um, this is what it's gonna cost us, save up for it. It was unexpected, yes. But like there's no, uh, yes. I can't afford that. It's like, no, how am I going to make that happen? That's the beautiful piece of entrepreneurship, though, because then I go, what services do I need to make sure I'm honing in on, or what am I doing to cover that? Yeah, essentially.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:35

Yeah, and I I know like that the afford, like, because I've slipped up to it. It's like, oh, we can't afford that right now. But it's not that we couldn't afford it, it's just not a budget. It's not, and it's just like an I yes, and I just like having to re like explain that and to be mindful because a hundred percent, especially like scarcity, and that's like wanting to like hold to things. I also have to remind, I'm just like melee, melee. I have money, like my little pack rat that I would like designated for something else. But if life happens, yes, you're right. I could take it for something if I need to, but I always have that mindset where it's like, no, that's not my spending money, you know. So I was a saver to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:12

So I was a big saver. That's another thing is trying to teach my kids that like you can spend your money, yes. Like, spend your money, but I I don't know. It's it's hard. Braxton's younger, but it's like, okay, what are you wanting? Yeah, not go to Walmart, see something cool, and I want this. Was that something that you wanted to put your money into it? Or is it something that crossed your path and in the moment feels good? Because money comes, money goes, we have it so that we can purchase what we need. So that's been another thing is like, I'm not like save her money, save her money. Like, what do you want to spend your money? And so I'll just say to them, does it feel good to spend that? And in two weeks from now, will you be grateful or content with that you spent that?

SPEAKER_04 1:52:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:02

Because yeah, like saving money is super important, but so is having a relationship where releasing it feels good and celebrating. Yeah, I did. I don't know if you have anything you wanted to add with that, but I did want to talk celebrating your financial wins.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:15

Yeah, I um I and I think those charts are the like the big thing because you can't because you get the visual. So you it is something to celebrate, and it's also nice for like the kids to see it too, and like they can celebrate. And like also when you're going through like a per like a debt payment journey, especially like if you have a lot of it, do you know what I mean? Like you might be going through this.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:36

Like, we did it for four years and like that's all like I think I'm on year three.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:43

Yeah, so it's like sometimes like you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:52:45

It could take like it could take a while, and it's not instant gratification, it's in investment in yourself and trust in yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:53

Yeah, and it's okay to like celebrate. Do you know what I mean? Like, go go like if you reach a financial milestone and you're like, and it's like have that little goal. It's like we're gonna have like even if it what even if it's spending money, I there's certain things that I don't agree with, like how like the Ramsey plans like, don't be in a restaurant. You know what? No, if you do this, go have like go have a celebratory, like go get some pizza, like why not?

SPEAKER_00 1:53:20

And it's not just every time you do something, then creating a 100% because it's like absolutely you don't you know, like, oh my little sweet treat and everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:28

It's like, no, like treats, like, yes, you need to you need to celebrate. Um, sometimes you need to make purchases, like you know what I mean. Like sometimes you need that dopamine hint where it's like I especially if there's something that you've wanted, and I think that's why the the kids up though and exactly, like I really do think having that visual, if you are a visual person, because you see what you're working towards, you've even if you can't get it right away, and it gives you checkpoints.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:53

Like, I love my I'm halfway on a big one right now, and I'm like, ooh, and seeing that I have two squares to color in, I'm like, okay, to get to that halfway will be so huge. And to get to that three quarter or that quarter, whatever, those are huge. Did you ever on coloring sheets though? I've had to once like put an X on my coloring sheet because I had to go back and I was like, fuck. Yeah, and then I would just I just redo my coloring sheet.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:22

Oh, but I'm not, I don't let myself I would I'll redraw if I do if I miss anything and I have to go back, I'm getting really mad. So I will like I will redo it to do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:32

I won't let myself redo it. Yeah, I fucking won't, um, except when I had to change my increments. Yeah. And like if you don't know what we're talking about, coloring sheets, you need to look up just like debt tracking coloring sheets because they're a roadmap, yeah, a visual roadmap, and it's fucking cool. Also, celebration. Um, so I literally celebrate myself every time I color in a square. I'm like, yes, thank you, whatever. But um, I had also done a financial course for females, and it was like each week, um, have you ever done a no spending week?

SPEAKER_01 1:55:10

Yeah, I like the no spend challenge.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:11

So, like those little things are really cool, not for everybody, not for every season, but like little cool things like that. It's fun to dive into little tips and tricks and stuff. And so it was even like if you stay in your window, like there was a point where it was like, all I'm purchasing is my coffee each day. And um, at the end of that week, treating yourself with a home spa day or whatever, like it doesn't have to be a purchase, no, but just like how are you celebrating? Because you do need to celebrate. Yeah, it's no different than reaching a fitness goal, reaching a nutrition goal, just showing consistency for yourself needs to be celebrated.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:57

So 100%. And then like also it's just it's long. And because you also have to remind yourself that maybe your goals are short term, but your relationship with money is going to be forever.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:10

So, like I feel like that's a starting point for everyone. Yes, those relationships.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:19

If you have like to, but then also like it's okay to not always be in that hustle state and transitioning. Like, I know, like, because we followed the whole Dave Ramsey like baby step, like to a T for us. And I remember, like, after we paid off debt, just saving for an emergency fund sucked. It wasn't fun, it was harder. I had a harder time putting money away because I'm like, well, that's not doing anything, it's sitting here. I could use this for something else. And like had to remind myself, it's like, that's this is your insurance policy. Like, do you know what I mean? Like having to like, and it's just like it's really hard to sometimes turn and now like being more intentional, I still have a hard time to just like not hustle. Do you know what I mean? And I'm finally, I think we've kind of been balancing more like in this stage of life after the hustle of the debt.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:05

It's been Did Taryn pull you back away from that a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 1:57:09

Um, sometimes we kind of like well, I find ourselves we were in our spending seasons differently. So sometimes he'll want to spend and I'm in my like frugal mindset. Yeah, I'm thinking like he's about this, and then he's in his like, I want or like I want to spend, and he's like, like, should we like and the frugal thing? So, like that's where we kind of have to like come together more too because we aren't always on the same page. We're on the same page with our big goals, like our investing goals, like we're on the same page with our budget, we are on the same page with our like our main money goals, which is like what we want to get for the kids' education or whatever they decide to do, like their kids' saving future account, our retirement account, and then we always try to do like a trip if we can. And then sometimes like our little side things like business. Like we were we would have a lot of discussions where it's like, you need a new computer. Well, I'm fine with my slow ass computer, but he's like, No, but like it is something we have to upgrade. We really need to look at this expenses, this like look at how like so. We'd have to have those conversations, and it's it's not like these big grand, like long things, but it is like constant, it's checking in and just like having people because you can build resentment with each other, yes, like that's a very huge piece, and like I because his busy season, even though we are in the same business, like we're businesses together, the only thing we actually work on together are weddings, everything else is separate.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:32

You guys have very different seasons planned on purpose, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:35

So his busy season um is actually my like slower because um his mind will be from like March to May, and then the weather doesn't get nice to May. So then my busy season is from like May to October, and there's some weddings that we both in together, and I remember the one time feeling that resentment because I'm like, I'm working, and you get the nice weather in the summertime with the kid. Do you know what I mean? And all that stuff. And I had to talk to him about it. And then we had to try to figure out well, why is it because okay, so then you're working too much. I was like, do you know what I mean? So it's like, it's like there's certain things where it's like Is it reflection of him, or is it you needing to flip down your yes, so I was like, and we've been, and it's like learning, and it's just there's a skill set that we're not perfected yet, but allowing there to be change though, because you could have been like, This is what I do. Yeah, 100% because it's like it's like working, or it's like and not seeing that, or adjusting our business, because it's like, okay, so then maybe we don't do as many gift cards because as much as some of these sessions were paid, it wasn't paid at the time, and then I'm like, Do you know what I mean? Yeah, and all of like those kind of things of like balancing it out, and it's like and then it's like does he resent me during his busy season? Um, because I'm trying to do activities with the kids, or like, do you know like so?

SPEAKER_00 1:59:56

It's like that it's well, and it's like his income season, and I don't know, you guys are equal, so it would be different. But like when Alan's really busy, it might be a slower season season for me where I really needed to save. But then the things that come up that are on my plate to take care of, like this summer, I'm on a little bit dial back because fall is fucking nut. So yeah, so summer is a little bit less. I made sure that I'm covered, yeah. But then when I have extra shit bubble up, but I'm in a slower season, I'm like, fuck. Almost not resentment, because we had a whole conversation about it, but it's like fuck, I'm feeling the heaviness of this. And he's like, Yeah, like, and he's doing okay, like he's busy right now. So yeah, I I just think that's so huge because if there's an emotional resentment or resistance between each other, it's no different than any other tension or like emotional resistance with each other. So important to have those conversations. Voicing it is just huge. Yeah, I think just like healing, finances are healing, finances are seasons. Um, it's not meant to be perfection. We make fuck ups and they're learning lessons. And I think my biggest takeaway is really just um letting the person listening that's like, fuck, I have debt. It's okay. You have debt. Yeah, the best place to start is figuring out where you're at and finding a roadmap that feels well, feel overwhelming at first, but like, oh, just like adjust it if you need to adjust it, make changes, but just keep like showing up how you can and keep reevaluating, I think is so huge.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:40

And I like to look at budget to like a flow chart.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:43

So I don't like not every month is the same. Does that like so like for us because our income's so volatile, like sometimes like sometimes we might not literally, if we don't have a session one month, we got no income. Do you know what I mean? Like if we have nothing, so we have to like we kind of like we do the flow chart. So when we're in our peaks, we have to make sure we're ready for the valleys, and just like kind of the balancing because it's a mixture of planning, but it's a mixture and like preparing, but also like enjoying your nail. It's such a balance, it's such a hard thing. That's why it's like it's never gonna end, but it doesn't mean it has to be a shitty experience to deal with. Do you know what I mean? Like if you get a hold of it and you practice with it and you get better at it, it's not as scary.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:27

And then I think you then own your power a little bit. You're entering a season without it feeling so unexpected. Like summer used to be stressful for me because I wanted to take holidays, but then it used to be a really busy season for me at my studio. And then as the kids have gotten older, I've been like, you know, summer is my season that I do the most focus and work on myself and like my nutrition and being outside and being in my yard and like grounding, that's the most important. And so I know it used to be our big peak where that it was very expensive because we did all the camping and the traveling and all the things, and I was working, and so I felt like I wasn't really seeing the kids and it went so fast. So, reevaluating that now my summers, I want to dial back a bit. It's made me have to sit with like I'm less available for things that I used to have big passion that I still do, but my downtime in the summer is a little bit different. So now it's like we've also pulled back on camping because just being at home feels good. Yeah. And so instead of it being our most expensive, we've honestly chopped it where we have a trip that needs this much money, but otherwise, our summer is less expensive. And so I don't know, it's like now I know going into summer, these are our costs because this is how we're moving through summer. I know I'm working less, so we've just adjusted. Yeah, whereas it used to be a season where when I started owning my finances, I'd see I'm living outside my means July and August. And like that's causing some shit then for me to feel in September, and then I feel like I'm chasing my tail for three months, and I'm not, but I feel like it because I didn't set myself up right for the summer.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:19

When you are in control of your finances and they don't control you, it's an entirely different experience.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:26

And it's like it's the same as life, though, right? Yes. When you aren't just on autopilot and chasing the things that are in front of you, but instead creating your own map. I think ultimately that's what it comes down to is owning your power, creating your map of what's ahead, what's important, where your energy with finances are going, and then owning that, adjusting, being flexible, celebrating.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:50

Exactly. And just to like the journey and to reiterate, it's personal too. So like personal finance is personal. Don't even let the shit that I say necessarily if it resonates with you, great. I hope you take it and then like maybe apply it. But it's not uh it's not the same for everyone, and it's okay, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:09

Yeah, I would agree. This is what I would say to a listener is what are the things that made you feel oof, and just sit with it and be like, it is it because it's out of alignment and it was just like someone's living a different way, or did it make you be like, fuck? Like, do I not know these numbers? Like maybe I need a little bit of digging. And then don't shame yourself, be curious about it and be like, okay, let me dive into this a little bit. And then what got you excited? Yeah, and what was like really meh that we talked about, run with the shit that was exciting. And if something was meh, just make sure it's not something you're ignoring.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:45

Yeah. And just finding your path and then finding your rhythm and like what it's gonna work for you.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:52

Yeah. My counselor, this is the like most simplest fucking thing she said, but she says it to me all the time, and it's such a good reminder. People can do with their money whatever they want, and it's none of my fucking business, and it's no one's fucking business what I do with mine. We get money, we do with it as we so please. It's the same as life. We get cards, we play them how we want. It's just money.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:15

Yeah, it'd just be so nice to not have the taboo to talk about money um where it is more comfortable. Do you know what I mean? But it it is hard because um, because we see money as a value, like, oh, if they're making more, they're obviously doing better, blah, blah, blah. And that's not necessarily the case. It's just like it would just be so nice to get to a point where it's just so neutral that it's-I can't wait bartering.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:40

Oh, Ellen is always like, can we just go back to bartering? Right, because seriously, oh, so awesome! And I've it's cool, it's a trend I've seen on social media, but like um, Reiki practitioner and like massage therapists is what I've seen, or hairdressers. Those were the three I saw. And they were like, What I'm currently accepting in exchange for services, and I'm like, well, and you and I do that.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:04

Yeah, and some like I know some photographer like ourselves. Like, I have people, like we have I have a few people where it's like, if you're feeling good with this exchange, I would love to do that. And they're like, Are you sure? No, like absolutely, I'm sure. And it is like, it's kind of nice to it is. Well, you and I have done that.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:21

Super grateful for that. And I think it's also how you do it and doing it respectfully and making sure that it's yeah, like you said, a feel-good thing. Yeah, fucking bartering would be bomb, bro. Cash and bartering. Like, like Ellen would be like, I'll build this deck for you in exchange for a beef.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:41

Oh, they're exact 100%. Like, I've even debated where it's like, if we're doing a like a wedding, I was like, Will you get me a like instead of a get me a full cow, cut it off? Do you know what I mean? I'll photograph your wedding.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:52

Well, I I do feel like we are going back in directions like that, which is epic and awesome because then there's no trace.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:01

I feel this like shifts, but it's not like a scary shift.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:06

No.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:06

I feel like I was like, it's actually, I was like, no, there's a change, like like I feel something that it is changing, but it's I have just have maybe I'm just delusionally optimistic. No, but it feels good.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:17

I think though it's partly because you've learned to be in uncomfortable. Yeah, maybe you have to like same with me. Life has been like get fucking uncomfortable. That's where the good stuff is. And so yeah, it's even like with systems collapsing, I'm like, this is a good thing. Yeah, like things are shifting to invite us to a place that's actually better, but it's gonna look different. And it's gonna redefine success and it's gonna redefine what uh health looks like.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:47

And it's you know, yeah, every I think, and the same thing too, like when you do like a debt journey too. I also have this thing where it's like, I paid off this much in this amount of time. Now I know if I ever want to save or put my grind. I have this optimist of like, we could do what would you like to do? Okay, well, we know what it takes. You know what I mean? So it's like I really just this sense of like we could do it if we need it. You know what I mean? Like, I just it's found. Once you accomplish that like accomplishment or you're going through that process, you do start to get you get the confidence where it's like, no, things can you can do things.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:21

It builds a solid foundation, yeah. In so many pieces, too, because it makes you have to build a foundation with your partner, yeah. And build a foundation with where you're putting your resources in life, essentially. Um, this is also coming from two girls who once saw a piece a lot, and we're like, could we could we both live on it and have chickens and fucking sheep? Should we start a commune? We will one day. You just wait. Um, okay. I have just a couple of things I wanted to ask you. Okay. One is Um, do you have a favorite money podcast or influencer that you follow?

SPEAKER_01 2:10:01

Honestly, I just I pretty much listen to the Dave Ramsey crew.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:05

I do, yeah. Um what would you tell your younger self?

SPEAKER_01 2:10:13

I would tell her to not I just really hard but not to worry. It's really like it's it's I used to live in a state of anxiety and worry, but everything has worked out. Even in maybe not the way you want it to, but you we're okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:32

I love that. Yeah I I come back to that all the time, but there was some real old like 110-year-old lady that was interviewed when I was a kid, yeah, or teenager maybe, and she said they were like, What's your secret? And she's like, I don't worry about things I don't have control of. Yeah, and it's and like the storms lately, I'm a weather girl, and I've just been like, it's just stuff. Yeah, if I'm safe, yeah, the rest is stuff, and there's not a fucking thing I could do about it. I love that. Yeah, hard.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:01

It is, and it's something I'm still actively learning to remind myself, but it is it's been once you get a like thing of just like letting go as a control freak, it's hard to say.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:13

Life will make you have to do that though, and you've walked some paths already that you had to understand that you don't have that much control. No, we didn't get into it, but I know that you your health has definitely taught you that. Uh, what does the world need more of?

SPEAKER_01 2:11:29

Patience. I think we need to slow down a little bit. I think we don't need to rush. We don't need to go to the next thing. Why the fuck is Halloween cut in the middle of July? Do you know what I mean? Like we just all just need to. Halloween in the middle of July. No, I'm just like, like, there's decorations already. I'm just like, okay, can we just not? Can I just enjoy the summer? Do you know what I mean? Like, why are we like why everything is forward, forward to next, next, next, and just we just need a little patience. Just slow a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:59

I love that. Yeah. Do you like how both of us got quiet and calm? Uh, what are your three words moving forward in life?

SPEAKER_01 2:12:13

Kindness, hope, and humor. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Those are like my big three, I think. Laugh, don't take everything too seriously. Have fun, be kind. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:29

Just be sunshine to people. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:34

I thank you so much for coming on. Um, I don't really know what all we talked about.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:39

Thanks for listening to me ramble.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:42

I love that about you because we, I don't know, you always meet me at my energy point too. And I loved when you were like, Can I ask did you ask me the questions you wanted to ask? She was like, Can I ask you questions? I'm like, oh my god, please do. Because sometimes I just bring shit up because people don't ask me. And I'm like, oh, I really want to share this. So yes, thanks. Um, be sure to, if you can, write a review, share. Um, word of mouth is one of my favorite ways of other people reaching out. And I just want to send um big gratitude for everyone who sent messages about something that landed with them or appreciation because it's literally me in my little room talking about my shit. And I'm real grateful that um it's landing with people and and people are appreciating and needing to hear what's said. So thank you, Aliyah, for doing all my fucking marketing stuff. Oh, yeah, I love it. Um my photo shoots are complex, I feel like, and you always your work is just amazing. So definitely also check out Alt St. Is it Alt.studios? I'll put the link in the message but for Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:50

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:51

I think that is Alt Studios. Eight years of working with you. I'm really grateful. So uh thanks to all our listeners. Don't forget to love fiercely and trust yourself to always land softly. Until we meet again, peace and love.