S1E3 - "Coach vs. Consultant: What's the Difference?" The Right Room Ep. 3 with Dr. Donna Smith-Bellinger

In the next episode of "The Right Room", we welcome special guest Dr. Donna Smith-Bellinger to discuss the differences between coaching and consulting. As an experienced business consultant and coach, Dr. Bellinger brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to the conversation, exploring the nuances of each approach and how they can benefit individuals and organizations. Join us as we delve into the world of coaching and consulting, and learn how to choose the right approach to achieve your personal and professional goals. With engaging conversation and valuable insights, this episode of "The Right Room" is a must-watch for anyone seeking to improve their performance and achieve success in their endeavors. Contact Dr. Donna Smith-Bellinger:Email: donna@donnasmithbellinger.comlinkedin.com/company/dsbellingerconsultingfacebook.com/askdsbinstagram.com/askdsb/alignable.com/chicagoil/ds-bellinger-consulting-llc-2The Right Room Vodcast – "Life never stops teaching" and we should all be open to discovering more and harnessing the power of others' experience to help us grow, personally and in business. Join us each week for our newest vodcast; catch us "on the fly" wherever you find your podcasts, and subscribe to our channel to find out about releases, discounts, and upcoming special events, live and virtual!Join us at https://www.facebook.com/TheRightRoom/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Hi everybody, welcome to the right room where life never stops teaching. I'm Jane Parmel. And I'm Celeste Kamps. And today we're going to talk about sales. Kind of in the realm of consulting and coaching. And I know myself the line gets very blurred. Celeste, do you ever ever have that issue come up about what's which one's which, which one's better, which one you should be working with?

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Yeah I actually quite frequently. I think that people use that term consultant and coaching interchangeably. And I think that that's an issue because they are two different expertise. There are two different ways of looking at a situation, two different ways of approaching a problem. And I think it's important at this point that we differentiate between consultant and coach. Maybe you think you're both, or maybe you don't realize that maybe you're just a little bit of both. But we want to at least find out what makes a consultant, what makes a coach.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

That's right. And because I'm sometimes very confused about that myself, as I deal with more and more clients who look at me as either of the two, because I don't even think they have clarity on it. We have an expert. We know somebody that y'all need to know because she is the one, the only Dr. Donna Smith Bellinger. And she's going to tell us all about the difference between consultants and coaches, why you need them, what they're all about, and how they can best serve you and your business. So I'd like to welcome Dr. Donna to our right room. Hi, Dr. Donna. Hello. How are you two? I'm good.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

How are you? Very good. I'm happy to be here. You know, Jane and Celeste, I was really honored when you requested that I join you and your platform. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Well, I follow you on LinkedIn. I am always impressed with the information that you put out freely. How quickly you are to nail down a situation and distill it to a point where it's very understandable, but more importantly, I can use it right away. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Oh, thank you for that, because that's actually my goal. So hey.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Perfect, right on target. That's good. Okay, well, we have a bunch of questions for you, I guess. And the biggest one becoming being, what are the differences between a consultant? Like I think maybe that we start with that. The difference between consultant and coach, and then explain to us maybe what's best in what situation. Okay, well, I'm happy to do so.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

Generally, people consider assistance or support in one of three categories, actually. They look for a mentor or a coach or a consultant. Now, when you are approaching people to be a mentor, that first of all signals to the person that you are talking to that you do not have anything to pay them with. Okay, there's no financial compensation. It's just we should be totally honored that you want us to spend our time pouring into you so that you can grow. And it's, I mean, that's actually how it is. And when you're looking for a mentor and you meet someone, I mean, if if you were to go to Oprah and say, Oprah, would you mentor me? She would probably say, You got to show me where you're at so I know it's worth my time. And you have to be extremely clear on what you deliver and why I should attach my brand to your name. So understand when people don't jump at the opportunity to be your mentor. You know, as I heard one person, one executive tell someone else, he said, come back when you're grown.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

So that's powerful, but that's that's you're right on target with that. That's so true. They have to attach, they have to attach themselves to your brand. So they have to be comfortable with you, right? That's the biggest thing when you're looking at a mentor. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

They spent years creating who they are. So then you have, I believe you wanted to start with consultants. Yes. Okay, fine. You hire a consultant when you need an expert. Essentially, when you hire a consultant, you already know or have a general idea of where the pain or the problem is, and you have um vision of what success would look like when you're working with that individual. So then a um consultant would come to you and help to identify a process or a method or make recommendations, you know, but they're dealing typically with one specific thing. Now that can be uh something like improving your sales team. You know, maybe you have a revolving door with your team, you know, nobody's staying. People are coming in and they're going out, they're coming in and they're going out, and you're not able to grow leaders and top performers. So you may bring in a consultant to address that particular problem. And Lord, I could do a half an hour on that, but that is a specific, you know, challenge. If you um, you know, and and we basically, like I said, we diagnose it, we make recommendations, and uh, it's not about making you feel warm and fuzzy, it's like this is the gap, this is what we need to do to alleviate that challenge. This is how long it should take. This is the result. All right, consultants are generally not cheap, just so you kind of understand. But when you consider how much money you are losing by not having that problem fixed, you will find that it's a very wise investment if you have the right person.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

I think that's the the biggest takeaway for people in business to understand when to ask for help and know that it is an investment. You can't look at the price tag and say, well, we'll just figure it out. Well, obviously, you haven't. I think that's what's hard for people who do want to have a consulting job, that they want to they've enough experience, they've networked, they know people, they've gathered all of this together just to have people say, Yeah, I just can't afford you.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

No, and see, now we're tipping into the sales part, but the bottom line is uh in the pre-qualification process, another conversation, you want to be able to demonstrate how much it is costing them not to make the decision to justify the investment. And uh far too often uh a personal reach out then to a coach of some type or a consultant to say, well, then how much should I be charging?

unknown 8:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

So so it sounds to me like with consultants, there's more definitiveness, there's more, there's more definitive than um, shall we say, the process of coaching that might lend itself to being more lead the horse to water and see what happens.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

Okay, let's move over into coaching. And see, I like going through the two because I am both. I am a certified coach, but I also have over 40 years of sales expertise in corporate. All right, a good leader, regardless of the industry, is part expert, part coach. All right, because you have to be able to guide, but it's not dictatorial. See, a coach is not dictatorial, a coach enables the individual to solve a problem, they're solving the problem. So we do the probing, we ask the questions, we get the clarity, and essentially that, but you do the work. You do the work, we're the guide. So when you're working with a coach, it's not a matter of having a defined finish line, a defined outcome. You're looking for growth, maybe you're looking for strength, for motivation, uh, mindset, clarity. You've seen all of these people, how to get married, how to get divorced, you know, all of these types of things, but it operates in a lot of gray space. And you hear people say, well, this person isn't coachable. And when they say you are not coachable, there's nothing wrong with you, you're not broken, and you don't need fixing. So please don't grab onto that. But it does mean that you're not willing to embrace possibilities. And and one of the first possibilities that you have to embrace is you don't know it all. You don't know it all. So take your little, you know, take your little bottle of Kool-Aid and put it over here. Don't drink that Kool-Aid anymore. All right, you you're not omnipotent, and and there is something that you are not aware of. When I do uh a coaching aspect of my practice is listening skills. Because far too often we are waiting for our chance to speak, but we are not listening and processing what the individual said because we want them to hear us in those types of conversations. There's a tendency to make the other person wrong so that you can be right. Who likes to be made to feel wrong or less than, you know, or any we don't, we don't. So the most important thing, whether it's in leadership, any type of direction, sales, even in a marriage, is understanding how the other person processes information, and then what you sound like to them. And and being very, very clear. Uh, case in point, a former partner of mine, oh, so former, and but I was willing to shift my communication style. That person was not able or willing to shift their listening. So here's what it would sound like. Uh, and this is a true situation. This person felt that if people weren't interested in the things that they were interested in, that person had no value. Why? Because he was, you know, this dynamic, interesting person. And he shouldn't waste his time with people who were not dynamic and interesting in the same way that he was. Everybody else was boring. Everybody else was boring. And I took him to, I'm gonna keep this really simple. I took him to a networking event because he hadn't done much networking. And I said, What I want you to do is begin to work the room. How do you work a room? Okay, fine. Cliff Notes version of that. And then I said, I need you to come back with 10 business cards. All right, simple. So he came back to me in about 15 minutes, 20 minutes. That was fast. He goes, Okay, well, here's the 10 cards. I said, Okay, great, tell me about these people. You didn't say I had to know anything about them. You told me to get 10 cards. And what am I supposed to do with them? I could have pulled names out of the phone book, yellow pages, whatever it is young people use. I mean, you know, I could have done it from that way.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Not yellow pages.

SPEAKER_03 14:10

I'm gonna say that yellow pages anymore, but it's a digital yellow pages, but anyway. And I said, Okay, well, what about this person? Oh, that person's just an admin. And I happen to know the person who I pulled the card from. And I said, You do realize that she is an admin for a VP at Harpo Studios. Oh, yeah, but so you didn't talk to her, you know, she wasn't um compelling or attractive to you. Her title wasn't compelling or attractive to you, and and therefore, based on those two things, you decided this person had no value. So listening skills and and getting out of your own head are so important, and that's something that coaches can work with you on, you know. So if you're wondering why people aren't promoting you or you're not getting the promotions you want within your career, you know, perhaps they have the wrong perception of you based on how you listen and how you respond. Maybe you don't make yourself approachable, or as I said before, memorable. Because, like I said, it it's not their job to remember you, it's your responsibility to make yourself memorable. Thank you, Patricia Fripp. And and so that is a basic on the difference between a coach and a consultant.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Well then now you said that you do both. And when you walk into a situation, do you let them know which one they're getting, or is it something that just overlaps as you proceed with either doing those staff trainings or helping that one employee? And is it just a or is it just simply a case-by-case situation?

SPEAKER_03 16:19

In every engagement, the most important thing is for me or you or Jane to determine what you want to get out of that particular situation. Trying to make a friend, trying to get a job, trying to get a promotion. And so when I am working with an individual, that's the reason I said it's important to understand what their end game is, what they're looking for. If they just want straight coaching, I don't do that. And the reason I don't do that is I tried it, didn't it? It didn't fit well for me because I need to know when I'm done. I'm an outcomes person. I want a finish line. Even when I go in and work um in a corporation or small company, I tell them I walk in with an exit strategy. I need to know when I'm done. Otherwise, it's like the never-ending story, you know, the song. I'm not looking for the never-ending story. If that's what I wanted, I get a job. And I itch even when I use that word. But I that's what I would do.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

But that's a great way to have that line drawn. Because I think when you go in as a coach, there probably is a part of you that thinks that there's an end game, but the reality is it may not be. You you and you don't want somebody to feel dependent on you. The whole idea is for them to learn to grow and move on. But I I could see why you you would almost have to put on the consultant's hat to say, we are going to work for this amount of time, and in this amount of time, you will be able to establish this, this, and this. And then from there, you'll take the next challenge. It'll either be with me or you will find somebody else in that field that fits you for that purpose. I mean, that's I mean, I I I but I could I could see why you would need to put that together in a in a system.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

Yeah, yeah, you do. Um, my challenge as a coach was uh if they don't do the work to help us to get to that point, I get frustrated. And even with my consulting clients, if they're not doing the work, I'm not gonna just take your money. I have fired many a client because it's not serving them or me. And and like I said, I'm outcomes driven. So my whole thing is you have to want it more than I do. When I have a client that I'm working with where it's obvious I'm more attached to it, and I had one person who was like, oh, but I just look forward to our talking on this particular day. I'm like, yeah, but that's not why I'm here, baby. I don't do therapy, you know, and and this isn't a friendship thing. This is a transaction and we have a goal. If we decide that we want to hang out, then we go and we hang out. But when we gather for a purpose, we need to be in the space of that purpose. And because I know that's how I am, I have to make sure that I attach to the right people. Now, to Celeste's point, there are people who have business models that say, these are your 10 steps to do this. We're gonna cover it in six months. At the end of that, you will have, and what you will have is a bunch of stuff. But that doesn't mean that you're gonna apply it, that it extends past that particular engagement. They'll just be able to say, Oh, yeah, I took Celeste Broadway. How was it? It was nice.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

But they don't necessarily have an end to it. Well, like you said, with an end, um, you know, I I think one of the one of the biggest uh myths I I think with coaching and consulting is one of the biggest problems is dealing with people that don't understand the need for a coach or a consultant. But that one of the biggest myths is, well, I could do it on my own. What do I need them for? Um I'm sure that you know, in in the in the amount of time you've been doing this, you've come up against that. What's uh what's what's one of the biggest pushbacks, I guess, that you get? What how do you handle those pushbacks if it is that you you know you're presented with it?

SPEAKER_03 21:17

Um so one of the the glaring things that will occur depending upon who you're talking to is they really want an easy button. That's what they're looking for. So it's like, okay, so if I hire a consultant to take care of this particular thing, then we're gonna implement something and poof, everything is gone. Or if I engage with this particular coach because my marriage sucks, then when I complete that program, poof, we're gonna be holding hands and walking on you know the beach and all of that. And there is no easy button in either coaching or consulting. Or, like I told one of my people, I'm like, honey, this is not a touch from God. Okay, that's just not what it is. You have to put in the work to make this happen. And that's either coaching or consulting. So that's one of the first misconceptions. Uh, the second misconception is um when a prospect on either side shops. So they're shopping price. Okay, and they're shopping the things that are most important to them. This person needs to be handsome and successful and have pictures of him sitting in front of Aston Martin's, and now I know that this is the person who can grow my business, or she has to be a particular type, or you know, whatever, with all of the girly accoutrement and and a lot, yeah, you know, in order to be a person because I want to be that person with the Aston Martin or with all of the little glitzy stuff, you know. And so they're picking a person to work with based on who they want to be, as opposed to the results that they want to achieve.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

That's interesting. That that's I find that fascinating. Um, that it's it's always an issue where they want what they want. They wanted it yesterday, but the willingness to put the work in is sometimes non-existent. Um, you said before that you have fired many a client, uh, I know what that means. I'm intrigued. I wonder if our listeners understand what that means.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

If I see that this engagement does not serve me, if it is not keeping me in integrity, um, keeping me in alignment with my values, then I can, everybody has a contract and there's always a clause. Either one of us can, whatever, whatever. You can exit out of the relationship. Um, and um, I have some sneaky things that I do that I'm not gonna put on here because I don't want people to feel but you know, you need to have that real deal conversation, you know, and and then you just basically what I typically will do when I'm firing up is I'll fall on my own sword. You know, I am not going to continue working with you if we are not going to be able to deliver the results you want. Oh, but Donna, we can no, no, no, we've already put three months in this. I'll recommend someone else to work with you because I'm not pulling what you need out of you, you know. But I'll I'll take all of the heat. Why? Because they can't argue to themselves. See, I already said it's my fault.

unknown 25:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

You're almost playing therapist at that point, then, too.

unknown 25:19

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

To a certain extent, but the the treatment is for me, because for my sanity, I got to get the heck out of there, right? You know, so so that's pretty much what it looks like. But yes, I have fired clients, I've extracted myself from the business relationship for the benefit of me and also for the client.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

That's that also shows a lot of integrity because somebody else would be like, yeah, just keep paying me. Do the work, don't do the work, you know. But I'm I I would have a difficulty with that as well, because the I'm in this to see people succeed. So it but uh with the hope that they're willing to put the work in. You're right.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

My business mission statement is that the work that I do must affect more than the bottom line because it's not the transaction, it's the testimony. And I know we're not talking recommendations yet, but the whole point of it is if you deliver stellar results, you will get referrals, you will get recognized, it will increase your visibility and your credibility, whether it's in your career, in your relationships, or in your business. So it's not about getting paid. You know, a transaction will feed you for a day. But the reputation, the rest of it, that's where the longevity and the legacy comes in. And that's the desired outcome.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

So when you work with your clients, um, whether it's in the consulting realm or the coaching realm, whichever hat you're wearing, what are some of the things? I know we we said that you focus a tremendous amount on sales, of course, having the competencies behind um, you know, the the listening skills and and what to look for and the planning and everything else. What exactly um what are the outcomes with your clients um in the end when they're done working with you for that for that specific amount of time? What are what are some of the things that have been um accomplished by your clients?

SPEAKER_03 27:45

I uh worked with a mechanical engineer who felt that they were being completely overlooked and not given the necessary at-bats at work. And there were also some personal things going on. But once we got that listening piece and we began to understand the personality types that they were dealing with, we were able to deliver results that again visibility and credibility, so that within 18 months, that individual increased their uh revenue by 30 percent on the job. I have a person who was 30 years in corporate, but when they determined that they are ready to leave corporate and do their own thing, there was a key piece missing. And and this person was also a coach, and this person could work on huge stages, festival, south by southwest, whatever, but they couldn't move into closing a transaction. There was a problem with that, so I solved that, and and that person said I greatly improved their conversion rate, you know. So once you understand, it's so it's so interesting. Once you understand that conversation and also the process that helps you determine that this is a good use of your time. And once you have the confidence to not volunteer or ask for opportunities, however you how however you want to do it, uh, that project, that person, that whatever, if they're not going to serve you and make you look brilliant, it's okay to say no. That's a big thing. That's a big thing. You know, it goes around a lot of a lot of people in O period is a complete sentence.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Yes. And you know what the scary part is? It's one of the smallest words that we use every day, but when we need to use it, we don't. Um, when it's when it's really purely to save ourselves, sometimes we don't. And uh, I don't know if it's cultural, I don't know if it's familial, um, but our you know, our place as women in in the workplace as well. Um, a lot of times saying no is just so the prospect of saying it is so scary. Um people pleaser.

SPEAKER_03 30:29

See, when you're a people pleaser, um it becomes very, very difficult. If you're a you know, like I'm a Donna pleaser. And and so what it looks like is this Jane, I really appreciate you wanting me to do this thing with you. However, my time right now is such that I could not meet your expectations. Okay, do you want me to try and find someone else who's more available right now? That was a note, but what again did I do? I fell on my own sword, you know. I know I can't do it to the best of my ability, and if I can't, I'm not, you know, because I love you and respect you too much to give you crap, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:24

But you would you would say it didn't.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

Oh, anything you do would be just fine. I don't do anything, you know. That's why you asked me to do it because you know I don't do just anything, so I'm sorry, you know, but it's also honest, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Not a fit. It's honest. You can't, you know, yeah. But if you're gonna have that integrity and like you said, stand by it, then that does mean being brutally honest. As hard as that is, I would imagine for some people to think, well, I'm not ready to give up that paycheck, or I'm not ready to give up on this person. Maybe we just need to do one more thing. But like you said, if you are going to have that integrity, if you're doing this on the sense of looking for that accomplishment that's just not coming, then it I think I believe it's probably easier on everyone to be that honest.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

It is. And also, you know, it's what you have decided, you want to, you know, like I said, the guy said, Come back when you grow up. It's like you need to decide, you need to grow up and decide what will serve you and what won't serve you. And you cannot tell me that you love that other person more than you love yourself. You know, do you need them? Do you need their approval that much? That approval is is not what you are seeking. You're seeking fulfillment, you're seeking to be able to take care of the people who depend upon you. Okay, I've got a bunch of what I call dustables back here behind me, which are the awards that you get in Louis Cash. I call them dustables. I like it. And I've got a bunch of them, and I've got a bunch of them packed away and stuff like that. But after a while, the realization hits you that that's not why you're doing what you're doing. So, work is what you do to finance who you plan to become and to serve the people you choose to serve at the right time. And we all know when you think about how you buy and the other things that you do, that yeah, in the US in particular, we're sheep, we follow winners. So if you want people to follow you, whether it's in your career or in your business, what have you got to be? The expert. Do you follow peddlers or do you follow professionals?

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Exactly. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

I like that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

The I the first time I met Donna Donna, who wasn't Dr. Donna then, but but is now Dr. Donna. Um, I I literally, she was the first person I was at a conference in in uh and literally standing there, probably shaking in my own shoes, that I was so out of my element at that point. Um, I'm just kind of standing there and she came over to me and she's like, you know, where are you from? What what do you you know? And she was she was right out there and she was basically, and I don't, you know, I don't mean this with any with any, she was telling herself, showing me how I needed to be. She was showing me how to how I should have gone up to her as she came up to me. So, you know, it's it's that that point of always uh being on, getting your communication, getting your your message across. I love the fact that when you when you're talking, you say, the vision for my company, the vision for me is this. I want to work with somebody that gets it, that that that knows that they have to put the work in just as much as I have to put the work in. And you also very very clearly and and definitively said, you know what, there comes a point in time when somebody doesn't want to put the time in. I don't want to work with them anymore. And I think that that's just like testimony to the fact that you're right, everything everything revolves around the way you communicate, the way you um impact, the way you want to see the outcome. Um, and I think that you just really embody all of that in the way you work with everybody I've ever seen you work with. Everybody that I've ever seen you talk to. Um, it just it is an amazing thing the way you you really have that grasp of it. It's fantastic. Thank you. Always.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Well, Celeste, more questions for Dr. Donna? Well, you did mention the word testimonial. And I know I know we cannot have you leave just yet without going through that just a little bit because you did talk about the endgame being that testimonial, being that accomplishment that results in furthering a reputation as one of the go-to person in help with your social development, your sales development, your personal development, and your success in business.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Yeah, but she doesn't call them testimonials.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

I trademark the term yestimonials because whether it's in your career or in your business, when someone gives you that review or that recommendation, there is a formula that I'll just share with your people right now that they need to embrace. Before I began working with Celeste, I was and state the challenge. While working with Celeste, I discovered, I implemented, we created, put that thing in there. Then as a result of our work together and then fill in a blank. I call that a yestimonial because any recommendation that doesn't have what I call the money line is not useful. So even with my mechanical engineer, they could say the company had a project that needed to do this. Mary brought the expertise to create that uh. As a result, the company saved, made, implemented that up. See, and that's still the money line there at the end. So it focuses on not your personality. Oh, she's so easy to work with, she's so personable, she makes learning fun. She should, you're paying her. Right. That's just the way I look at it. But you hired that person to do what? This great. Did you get this at the end of the engagement? Yes, I did. Then it's worth the money. And so, whatever project you work on, whatever the engagement is, if there is clarity of purpose, clarity of the outcome, and you never lose sight of that in your business or in your career, then people will recognize you for your expertise, which then becomes a part of your conversations, and that thing that uh Jane's heard me say so many times. We have to learn how to consistently communicate our competence. We have to learn to lead with our value. And if you don't understand how other people see your value, now you're in your head, you're back with that Kool-Aid, you're back with the Kool-Aid.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

No, perception equals reality. So, so again, based around that, you you have somebody that you're working with that um not directly but indirectly questions your value in the sense that it happens.

SPEAKER_03 40:07

And um, first of all, then that would be somebody that I don't want to work with because I extensively pre-qualify people before I offer the opportunity to work with me. Peddler, professional. A peddler is, are you ready to buy? Will you please buy? Will you please join? I don't do that. When you have the right conversation with an individual and you've communicated your value, the conversation should end with the other person saying, either, how can we work together, or I have someone that I want you to meet. And now you know where to go, and you know that they get you, they understand the value. So if it's somebody who doesn't really get my value, I don't even offer the opportunity for an engagement. Because I'm I'm not gonna try to keep reselling them every time I talk to them on the phone. No, we should then be in a partnership, you know. Now, if someone um on their team is giving me pushbacks, you know, pushback on certain things, then what you do is you strictly reinforce why the firm thought this was a good idea, and then you say, So this is what your boss told me they wanted, this is what the company signed for, got an issue with it, go talk to them.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Perfect.

SPEAKER_04 41:46

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

But it's but I think it's an approach that you have that I think a lot of people miss. I think, like you said, they're they're so worried, please hire me, please hire me, please hire me. I promise I'll be able to do this, this, this, and this for you without, like you said, qualify it. You do have to be a good match. I mean, it kind of is like a therapist. You there, you this might be the person everybody said could help, but you don't connect it for whatever reason. And you have to feel that ability to move on and not feel that I guess I have to commit and and let's see what happens, or be that person who says, please don't leave me, please don't leave me. I I'll figure this out, I'll work with you a different way, I'll lower my price.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

No, no, don't even say that to me. No, don't don't even say that to me ever. Right, but you can add some value, but you never lower your price.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

But here, that's but here, this is what so many people of course, but that's what so many people need to understand. Your approach, I believe, is one that should be adopted. I think people should hear what you're saying, how you are approaching your clients, how you are approaching the companies, how you are approaching the situation, and let them understand that yes, I am the person you need, but I need to perceive if you're the person that I can work with. And I think it, but it does, it it shifts the mindset, it shifts a perception not only of value, but the value of your own self worth that I think many of us give up without a fight.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

No, you cannot do that. And also remember that whomever you choose to work with is a direct reflection on your brand. So I've chosen not to work with. With certain firms that after I do the pre-qualification, I know they're circling the drain and I'm not getting on the Titanic. Okay. So I just, you know, nope, sorry, I'm not the right person for you. Nope, sorry, schedule's too full. Or if they're really, really pushing it, I just, what my husband laughs at me when I say this, I just slap them with an annoyance tax. I just make the price so high that I know they'll say no.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

That's a good one. I like that. But but you're not afraid. The thing that I love is you're not afraid to say no and you're not afraid to walk away when it's not a good fit. And I think that like like Celeste said, so many people just, you know, that that they force that square peg into the round hole and it just never works.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

It just I've been through that in corporate as part of the reason that one of my uh one of my girlfriends has this term that she uses. I'm psychologically unfit for employment. That's the way she puts it.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

That's perfect. I like that. We got to make t-shirts with that on.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

I was gonna say, I I I would I would wear that t-shirt, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 45:11

Yeah, yeah. But you just have to understand where your value stands, where your integrity stands, and don't move into what I call the land of settle. I'm gonna lower my fees and then I'll just lower my standard of living because this seems to be the only kind of person I can get. As opposed to what do I need to shift, consultant, to make this more attractive to a higher or more advanced clientele. You know, and or or what do I need to change in my mindset or in my listening to make me more attractive to the culture of this particular firm so I can move as high up as possible within that. Okay, and then what's my exit strategy to move to the next company that's gonna help me to grow? You don't you don't live leave, you don't live in the land of settle.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

And if you are, you should probably get a consultant to help you with that.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

See, full circle, full circle, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Well, I think we all need we all need that direction, we all need that perspective from the outside. I don't know of anybody that has been successful by saying, I did it all by myself, nobody helped me, I figured it all out on my own. I don't believe we can create in a vacuum. And I think that if you are a consultant or a coach or a little of both, and you're not seeing your business thrive, you're not getting the clients that you want to work with, then yes, maybe it is time that you get some outside help. I think that's the I think that you have to walk that walk yourself.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Right. They say that the best coaches, the best coaches have coaches, right? Exactly. The the premier athletes in the world have the coaches on their team, and then they have extra ones on the side that they work with day in and day out. And it's just practicing and and honing your skills and hearing people like Dr. Donna that have fantastic uh tips and tricks and programs that will teach you how to really uh blow what you are doing out of the water because she's got it, she's got uh the focus right clear, clear and well defined, and she expresses it so well in her programs and and when you work with her, you learn how to really value yourself, value the sales, and value your customers and your time, most importantly. So that's uh in a nutshell for me. I I walk, I I I worship the quicksand that Dr. Donna walks on because I know sales is not an easy thing, and working with people is never an easy thing, but uh always the one of the greatest um mentors, if if I will, or um one of the greatest guides um when it comes to sales and and uh how to do things and valuing yourself. That's my friend, Dr. Donna.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

And Donna, which is the best way you would like people to get in touch with you? We're going to give them all the information you've given us, but is there one particular way that you prefer?

SPEAKER_03 48:57

Well, of course, they can um directly email me. I don't have a problem with that. And it's so easy. It's Donna at Donna SmithBellinger.com. Can't get easier than that. And also uh follow me on Instagram. And on Instagram, just like you see it over my shoulder here, it's Instagram is at askdsb. Got it. Perfect. Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

Thank you so much, Donna. This is a pleasure. Jane and I were both looking forward to having this time with you. We very much appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 49:39

I appreciate the opportunity to share.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

Thank you for letting me play. Thank you so much for joining us. I so so do appreciate this. And everybody, please reach out to Dr. Donna if you can. She's incredible to work with. And um, you know what, you'll get more of what you came for when you deal with Dr. Donna. So uh follow her on Instagram, send her an email, let her talk to you and see what how you can work together, what what the best thing for you would be. She'll help you there. Again, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Hopefully, we'll have her back. Right. No, you will.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

You're coming back. We're gonna have we're gonna have like a um, what did we say we were gonna do? Like panels and things we're gonna we're gonna do. So when we do that, we'll we'll ask you back and hopefully we'll have more Hollywood squares and and more people up. And uh, you know what? If you when are you coming to New York, by the way? When are you coming? Soon and very soon. We'll get it planned. Good, good. Sounds good. All right, well, let me finish it up. Or do you want to finish it up this time? You finish it up this time.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

Okay. Well, thank you very much for visiting the right room. My name is Celeste Camps.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

And I'm Jane Parmell. Thank you, Dr. Donna. We'll see you again next time. Thank you. Okay, bye-bye.