#06: Bao Buns, Branding and Death

In Episode 6 of Allegedly Thriving, Izzy and Martin finally nail the intro, only to immediately record in the noisiest possible location: The Stack in Seaburn, a giant tin box of kids, music, and questionable puns.

Martin’s thriving after sitting down to map out proper short, medium and long tem goals.  

Izzy’s thriving too but theres a quick hard left into mortality: the weird comfort of planning your own death, the fear of a stupid death, and what “legacy” actually means when you strip away money and status.

Somewhere between McDonald’s orders, coffee slander, and the ethics of saying “bougie”, they stumble into a surprisingly solid branding conversation: why audiences can sense quality, why consistency matters more than constant rebrands and how a few stable “brand DNA” elements can carry everything else.

This weeks teachable moment: “People change their brand rather than fixing the problems underneath.”

This is all about us having a chat, a laugh and hopefully share some hints and tips to help survive life!

Thanks for listening to Allegedly Thriving and for coming along for the inevitable detours.

If you want to learn more about the two potentially unhinged presenters:

Martin - Photographer and Owner of Terry Harrison Art: Martin Newham Photography  and TerryHarrisonArt

Issy - Director, Owner and all round Digital Genius:  Howell Studios and Howell Media

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Pickle pepper pickle pecker pickle peppers okay bye yeah okay well you're the pref you're the professional do you want to welcome people to the podcast?

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Well I am Izzy and that is Martin.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

I am Martin and that is Izzy.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

I like that. Brilliantly done. Um and this is us doing allegedly thriving, a podcast where we discuss whether we are thriving or surviving based on our week's experience. How was that?

SPEAKER_00 0:33

I can see how well prepped you were.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

I'm sorry, I was deep in the bow buns.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

But no, we're excited this time because it's episode five, six, whatever episode it is, episode six, and we are mobile.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Six weeks of doing this.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

We are no longer sat in your studio.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

No. Um we're in a really noisy, inconvenient place with lots of annoying children.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

We're essentially in a giant tin box with children running around and music in the background.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Bow buns.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

So it sucks to be anyone listening to us.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yeah, and it no, I've never been in here before.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

It's quite nice. So for reference, we're in the stack in Seabird.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

It must have been, it's a lot nicer than the stack that was in Newcastle. So I remember that was very like open air. This is actually a bit more permanent.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

And it does have a lot of eateries, um, some of which have been a little bit liberal on the pungs. So barrel down.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

And the prices, I mean, I think what I would say is I can't imagine this being full. Does it get full?

SPEAKER_00 1:25

I don't know, I've never been here before.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

I imagine it would, but maybe we're just maybe a mid-afternoon matinee, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:32

That's the allegedly thriving review of the stack in Woodburn. Join us next week. Seaburn, sorry. So join us next week. Join us next week when we go to Sunderland City Centre and review the McDonald's there.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Oh, what's your McDonald's order?

SPEAKER_00 1:46

My McDonald's order. It's so for years it was always Big Mac. But then they're a bit passe now, and it's now double cheese, it's now um quarter panda. Quarter panda with cheese.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

See But do you just get the one meal or do you get a lot of things with it?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

I just get the one meal.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Oh no, that's not how you do McDonald's.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

I don't often do McDonald's. In fact, I more often get a double sausage egg McMuffin.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Oh no. See controversial things.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Because Mackie D's breckies.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

I don't like the breakfast.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Oh they're good. And I have breakfast. I do and I don't.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

I just I want that McDonald's breakfast later in the day.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

McDonald's coffee on the other hand, absolutely foul. I would go so far as to say gash.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

And they use PG tips for their tea. Which to me is like a treason.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

There was a joke there about monkeys, but I don't think I should go there.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

No. Oh what's his name? Johnny Vegas.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

I could allude to it but not say it. It's all good. Anyhow.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Yeah, no, no, it's my McDonald's order. I feel like you gotta sample all the wares. My McDonald's order is often either whatever's like fancy and expensive at that point.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

So it's like, you know, they have those ones that you have like the Philly cheesesteak and yeah, like the ones that like the bougie ones.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Yeah, because I feel like they only bring out the stuff that's really good for a limited time. Okay. And then I get a side of like 20 chicken nuggets.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

So I'm gonna go off on a tangent now.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Oh what we didn't what there's no tangent because we didn't even start off on that.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

There is a tangent because I'm picking up on one word you just said, bougie.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Yes? What does it mean? It means What is bougie? It it uh there's a little I feel like every time you say it, your your chance in heaven goes down a little bit because it is it's not a fun word. It's an annoying word. It's a word that implies lavish. Yes, the whole family would be dead by now. Oh yeah. Bougie is like lavish. Lavish, luxury, um like glitz and glam, and over the top, elaborately luxurious.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

See, I kind of get that but I always add in my head fake. No I always think bougie to be quite fake.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

No, bougie means uh luxurious.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

But not. See, I always Do you want me to look at the actual thing?

SPEAKER_01 4:04

No, no, no, it's fine, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

I just my my thought about bougie is that I think lux luxury and luxury and like high-end stuff and things like that that are permanent and always there, become almost classy. Whereas I see bougie as trying to be it and faking it.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

It isn't it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

So is for me bougie bougie is an influencer renting a jet to take pictures in it and saying, Look at me, I'm in a massive jet, and then leaving it.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Oh yeah, no, bougie is bragging, basically. It's it's saying, look at how fancy and expensive my outfit is. Uh or my prosecco is a being a twice. Yeah. Okay. So that's why everybody's Apollo listens who does that. So that's why when you say it, you have to die a little inside. Because you know that you're saying it in a way it's a bit like when people say, like, I don't know, and make any reference to Taui, you know, you're just dying inside a little bit every time. If you get me drift. It's kind of like a a naughty word in the sense that educated folks say it and it's like, ooh, look at me. Look at me being down with the kids.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Very coquettish.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Yeah, basically. So are you thriving or are you surviving this?

SPEAKER_00 5:15

I'm thriving. I'm thriving because I've had every week you're thriving.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

I want a week where you're just surviving.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Okay, but I tend to I I tend to have quite a positive outlook on life. So I've got to be. No, no, it's just it I'm like a swan.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Just white and feathery.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Gliding on the surface. Frantically paddling underneath.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Actually, you know, swans, lovely and elegant until you try and see them take off on water.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

There is no elegant way a swan or a goose can take off on water.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Like watching a jumbo jet take off.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

That slow kind of flapping of the wings and then just that running on the water.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Is that what you do? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Um, but no, I I would say I'm thriving because I I sat down and really thought about a business structure and my business plan and my goals. So I actually, for once, for the first time in a while, I actually wrote down kind of long-term, medium, and short-term goals. And then put together a plan of just a couple of actions a week that I need to do to try and achieve them. And I've put some accountability in place by making sure that somebody checks up on me in four weeks to say, have you done this?

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Is that me?

SPEAKER_00 6:20

No, no, no, somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

What?

SPEAKER_00 6:22

I know I'm cheating on you.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Whoops!

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Anyway, um to be honest, I don't trust you to do it.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

You know what? I would add it to my to-do list, and then I would tell you to tell me to do this.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Yes, I would have to remind you to get my make me accountable. But no, doing that's really helped because it's focused my mind on just a couple of things. So where I was thinking about lots of different things and had all these ideas and was thinking I need to do this, that, and the other. Now I've just got a couple of really clear goals and it gives me focus and direction.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Oh, you can tell you're a person who doesn't have kids.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Through choice.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

I know.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

I'm gonna rub that in your face.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

I have a child, not through choice. No, but but but that's why.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

I will I will die alone and lonely, and you will have a family around you.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Not really. Well, I don't know. I've done it.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

See, I'm assuming that my wife Jane's gonna die before me because that would be awful if she'd died before me, because then I'd have to look after yourself. Well, I'd have to go through all of No no no, I don't want to die before her, so I don't want her to have to go through that loss.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

So I I listened to a podcast recently called Where There's a Will There's A Wake, which is Mel Giedroitch, I think it is.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Off of Mel and Sue.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Yeah, that's the one.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

One of the best daytime TV shows that ever existed, and that's probably before your time.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

No, I I listened to their um audible podcast recently. It was very funny, you have to listen to it. Um but she has a thing called a podcast called Where There's a Will There's A Wake, which is basically where celebrities come on and they talk about how they how they imagine their death to be and what their death will actually be like and what life will be like after they've died. And what is your death? What do you imagine happening to you?

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Oh god, that you've you've you've opened a kind of very bleak worms here.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Yeah, no, no, but like what if what's your what is your death?

SPEAKER_00 8:06

As in how am I going to die?

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Oh, I've got no idea how I'm gonna die.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

No, we've got to think of something.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

I can imagine you're Well statistically it's gonna be cancer.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Knowing you, you'll just like you'll plan it. Plan my death.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Well, so I'm not gonna flip Okay, okay, let me flip the question on you slightly. Okay, so we're talking about how am I gonna die. So this has got really dark.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

No, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Would you prefer to it just hit you out of the blue, that's it, you're done, you know, bust drop down dead there, or would you prefer to know when it's gonna happen and be able to plan?

SPEAKER_01 8:41

No, don't tell me. I wanna be like, basically, I want to be treated if I did if I am poorly at any point, touch what I never am. I want to be treated like when a golden retriever gets put down, where you get a nice fun day out and then you just go for a nice cup of tea and then you're dead. So that's I don't want to know. I don't want to know.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

This is a generalization. This may not be what most people are like. I have no idea because I'm not like most people. Really? But I ache all the time, okay? Like usually I wake up in the morning, things ache.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Bone ache.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

I do.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

And I I keep going to the gym, so a lot of it's probably recovering and I'm not doing things right and stuff like that. But I kind of I've had a break off the gym for about a week. I went three, four days ago, did something, and that was about it.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

That explains a zymophine.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah, thanks. Um, but you know, I'm still walking around, my hips are sore, and I'm aching, and this happens semi-regularly, and there's a part of me that just thinks, oh, I wonder if I've got cancer.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

But everyone does that. I think we all do that. We all do that because yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

But do you then go down that rabbit hole of that says, ah, okay, so now I've visualise going to the doctor and we do tests, and six months down the line it turns out it's stage four, and I've got 12 months to live. What am I gonna do? Because the last six months of that are gonna be shit, you're not feeling well. Yeah, you probably got.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Just dial me out, just just literally, I'm done. I don't want to go through that.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Because in my mind, in my head, I'm on a plane and I'm off to Japan for three or four weeks. Yeah, culture because I really want to see Japan.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

I would leave such a debt in my in my absence of like I will rack up so many credit cards. Oh yeah, I was I will literally spend so much money.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

I was thinking about this morning, this morning as I was getting ready, and as I was sitting there in the shower watching, I was like, I'd get all of Jane's debts in my name and then probably divorce her so she wasn't linked to me in any way, and then I'd die with all of her debts in it should be debt-free. Not that she has any debts, but you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Well what I mean is that they're gone mad, I would go mental. But like also the thing is is that like I what was I gonna say? I think that if it was I I think that whole thing is because obviously it's a terrible, terrible thing, and it's great, we've got great awareness of it, but everywhere you turn you think you're gonna get cancer. And there's so many ways to get it now. Oh yeah, to look like we're all doing like literally stepping outside near traffic, you think, well, I'm breathing in these fumes, or I'm eating this food, or I'm eating bacon, which means I've shortened my life by a few years.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

You see, like people have got people have got a very interesting concept of statistics when it's about things that they don't really want to think about.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

So longevity. The average age for a man in this country is something like 73.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

That's not a good one.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

A woman's like 75, something like that. Or maybe it's 83. I don't know. I can't remember what it is, but the point is it's an average, which means half of all men never reach it. You've only got a one in two chance of getting there. You've also got a one in two chance at the moment of getting cancer.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

I know. And there's two of us out here right now.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

I know. One of us, statistically, is going to get cancer. And and the fact is, the longer you live, the more likely you're gonna get it anyway.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

But then also the older you are, the slower it grows.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

But also, you know, the treatments are getting better and more cancers are curable. And if you catch it early, so check yourself, you know, feel yourself.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Oh yeah, you're gonna do the whole shit with gubbins. But also But then also the thing is is that I I am a person who had to stop myself from Googling symptoms. And I think because as a woman, you have there's a your body goes through a lot more physically. Men are unchanging for a while, but there'll be days where you feel like a certain way, days you feel a certain way, hours where you feel like you're gonna die, and then another hour you feel like you don't. Like you're constantly up and down, things are always changing.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

You guys have got a fruit salad of bloody neurochemicals involved.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

It's horrible. Yeah. So what I mean is is that like you like you're like, oh, I'm experiencing this symptom, this symptom, this symptom. Oh my god, it looks like I've got cancer. And then an hour later you're like, oh fine, okay. Like you it's it's constant, and I had to stop myself because I was thinking, right, my mindset now is I need at least to tick most of the boxes, and I need to have that for an extended period of time. And also, I think a lot of it's brought on in your own head. Oh, it is like if I think a lot about feeling queasy, I will feel queasy.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

I also think you could go back and you could say it's the proliferation of all of the information that's out there now, it's already available, we can see it, we all know a lot more about cancer. We're all you know, it's it's it's advertised everywhere, you know. We we we all know about it. 50, 60 years ago, it wasn't as commonly known, you know, you you didn't you people weren't as widely read in general. There's all there's all sorts of factors in it. But I think and I think it's natural to be a bit paranoid, but I always try and put a twist on it because like I was saying, you know, you you go through that little hypothetical of oh it turns out you got this and you've only got so long to live. And I start works for you. But I start thinking about what I want to do. And then what I do is I look at that and I think, well, okay, so if I wanted to do that, why would it take getting cancer for me to do it?

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Why aren't I thinking about how I do it now? And that's why I kind of sat that's why I decided about a year ago, I said to Jane, right, for my 50th, because I've got plenty of time to plan it and save up for it and get ready, paired for it, I want to go to Japan for four weeks.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

That'd be amazing.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

I want to immerse myself in a Japanese culture with quite loads of stuff. And I want to go properly for four weeks to Japan with Jane.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

That'd be amazing.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

And just fucking experience it.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Yeah, and and that's it. I think that I mean I've noticed on social media there's a lot of death accounts. Like not as in like, but it's like people who have lost someone who like literally show them all the time and it's like in memory of this person, or there's people who have accounts where they're dying and you're like sort of following them, and at the end there's like a post which is like I'm dead now, and you're like, oh that I find that really chilling. I just I know it's it's it but it's but yeah, I mean, I know I got into the subject of death, it's not the vibe I was in, but I was just intrigued. I thought you were gonna say something interesting. No, but like a fun, a fun death, like falling off a bouncy castle or something.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

No, but when you think about it, attitudes towards death. People don't like talking about it, they they're they're scared about it, they don't want to acknowledge it, they don't want to face it. But it's one of it's the one of the most inevitable things. It's going to happen to every single person. We cannot stop it. So you know we need to we almost I think society could do with a much better attitude towards death. You know? Know it's gonna happen, prepare for it, and live knowing that it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Do you remember how old you were or the moment you realised that your own mortality?

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Oh, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Because I remember it really well.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

No, I don't.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

I remember because I watched my parents were watching a documentary, I must have been about five, maybe, or six, and I was watching it, my parents were watching a documentary and it showed like skeletons that had been buried and were like lying in the ground and stuff. And um and the narrator was say, I don't know who it was about, it was a historical figure, obviously. And the narrator was saying, Oh, you know, when they were buried after they died, you know, this is what happened, yada yada yada. And I remember turning to my parents being like, What do they mean? And my mum was like, Well, you know, that means that they're dead, you you live your life and then you die, you go away, you don't exist anymore. And and I was like, right, okay, and now my parents were running a bath for me about an hour later, and I was just sat in the bathroom and I was like sat there thinking about it and thinking about it, and it like there was a moment where it just literally dawned on me that me and everyone else that I know and love is not gonna exist forever, and I literally burst into tears and I was in like full-on like oh my god, like the the I I freaked out because I was like, and that is a massive thing to take in as a little kid, and like the other day Esme said the word dead or something, and it's like she said, like she's only three, and she said, like, like one of her dollies was like on the floor and she went, Oh, she's dead, and I was like, No, you are too young, you are too young, and I'm like, Oh my god, can't face that to another generation. I'm gonna tell her that everyone's gonna live forever, and that'll make her a very healthy human being.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Right, but you're right, you see that must have been terrifying because what you've done at that young age is your mind has suddenly gone, oh kind of started widening, and you kind of thought outside of just your immediate to everything around, to suddenly everyone.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Everything and everyone and civilized myself, and it's like, and I remember that, and then the the feeling of panic of oh my god, you're saying that I'm not gonna be this super happy fun kid forever, and I'm gonna actually like die.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

You see, that's that that's why I've always loved uh astrophysics and astronomy and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Because we're all just a makeup of atoms.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

No, but actually, you know, it's human, it's it's human nature to be to think about where we are and like to think that we're important and to think that we've got a function that we've put here for a reason. And there's nothing more sobering um to juxtaposition that than just taking a good wide look at the universe around and realising how damn enormous it is and how minuscule and tiny we are.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

You haven't listened or read Mark Manson yet, have you?

SPEAKER_00 18:10

No.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

So you mean I've said this to you already. That's all right. You need to read, like you give me homework, that is your homework. Read um the subtle art of not giving a fuck. I know you already don't. You've you'll read it and go, I already know all this. But he literally has an entire spanse of his, the whole, a whole massive section is dedicated to you and everyone else you know are going to die.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Yeah, you should read it. In fairness, my whole carefree attitude, not giving a crap attitude, has been built over the last few years. I've I've worked very hard on not being an arsehole about it.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Experience loss and whatnot, which can contribute.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

It contributes, but it's more just there's perspective and there's you know, you've got one life. I hate the YOLO thing. I hate YOLO on FOMO, but there is an element to it, you know. You obviously don't be a dick and just go out and be all hedonistic and not think about the future because you might have a future, but at the same time, don't work, don't bust an absolute gut for a potential future payout that you may never be around for. Oh, yeah, totally. Because that's just a waste of your time, you've got to balance it.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

I know, absolutely. Well, no, you no one's asked me if I'm thriving or surviving. I'm looking around, no one's asked me. Oh, I was just asking about death. I mean, I mean how I plan on dying.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

We're like 25 minutes in or something. So uh Izzy, as we head towards the end of the uh podcast, are you thriving or something? I think I just assumed you were surviving, because you know Well, after all that death talk, uh which you started.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

I know, maybe it's the stack that just makes us think about death, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Those bow buns. What a downer. Um maybe instead of bow down, it should be called bow downer. It's so bad I should be shot.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Bow down and that's how I'm gonna die.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

You're gonna get so annoying. I'll shoot you. Someone's going to be so insulted and upset and terrible fun that I make.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

But like it's the 1860s.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

No, no, somebody's gonna get so offended by my pedantry they're just gonna sit there and say, fine and kill me.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Yeah, shoot me, okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Death by pedantry.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

No, I want I want a kind of death of um we're still going back to that. No, no, no. I I was saying I want my two biggest fears are the fear that the next day you find out you've got two weeks to live. I hate that. That's horrible. Don't never tell me that. Just don't tell me. Just literally just let me go, oh what? I feel a bit uh dead.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Really?

SPEAKER_01 20:34

But yeah, but my other fear is a stupid death. Like imagine your entire life's work ruined and you're gone because you ate too many marshmallows. Or like you you like I don't know, like trip slipped on a banana into a condom truck.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Like what you drowned in a new condom.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Yes, or like or like you you I don't know, like you you fell asleep near a puddle and drowned in it. Like, like I have a fear of a stupid death. That's my I not I don't I don't really fear fear it, but I fear dying in a stupid way.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

That could just be a new feature. Stupid death of the week.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

I hate it. The thought of literally your entire life being culminated in, I don't know, standing too close to a firework when it goes off. Like, people have stupid deaths, and I'm scared that I'll be one of them.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

So do you ever worry about eating too much chicken or something? Do you ever worry about legacy? Do you ever think about legacy? About the mark you leave behind in this world?

SPEAKER_01 21:38

I do and I don't because obviously family business is all about legacy, but it's not like me and dad are setting it up to for when we die or whatever. No, it's not it's just that's not really a what we think we consider legacy to be like um leaving a mark on the world in some way, but not like in a way where you know it's gonna We're gonna have statues of us in the city centre sort of thing. But for me, I think legacy is you live on in how other people remember you. Like by the fact that so a great example would be my dad's grandmother who is who is who was called Mama Peas because she had lots of peas in her garden. Not like we's but like actual green peas. Um and lots of vegetables.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

I mean at her age it could have been either like.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

But like she is remembered so fondly because she was like she was like the kind of grandma that you could just have a hug from and just be absorbed in the hug, like just the sweetest, like baked her own bread, was just the literally if you imagined a grandma that was her. And like a core a core part of my childhood is obviously seeing her and whatever, but like she is remembered so fondly that she died when she was like 86 or whatever, but when it would have been her 100th birthday, my whole family threw a hundredth birthday party for her, and the whole family were there, like 50 plus people, and had a whole celebration for her with pictures of her on the wall, and there was cakes, there was like it was like a birthday party for a woman who'd been dead like 15 years, and that is legacy. That is literally you are leaving such an imprint that my nephew, who was a toddler at the time, was at a party for his great-great-grandmother that he never met that died 20 years before he was even born, at a party for her. And how many people in your life do you think to do that for?

SPEAKER_00 23:33

That is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

And that that's my is that your aim? My aim is to basically be or death goal. My my legacy to me isn't the money you make or the you know houses you own or whatever, it's how people celebrate you after you're gone.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

You see.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Like my granddad is currently in a Tesco bag in the airing cupboard, and I feel like we need to do something about that. But no one's listening to me about it.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

No, at this go weightros. I mean come on.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

I know Tesco's. It's not a bag for life, ironically. I know, I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

You've done that a couple of times. Yes, I have, yes, yes, yes, I think. Yeah, yeah, you've got to be. Yeah, so but anyhow, thriving or surviving.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

How am I thriving or surviving? Um after that very long inspiring speech about legacy, I am I am for the first time in a long time, I think thriving. I know, I know I've been surviving for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

So how so why are you now thriving? This is excellent news.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Because I have gone through a patch of a lot of self-doubt. Um I have gone through a patch over the last few weeks of feeling very not depressed, but just low, doubting myself, doubting what I'm doing. And this happens in business all the time. Like it happens in life. It happens in life. You know, when you go through phases of just thinking, I am terrible, like I've been going, I was going through that a lot, like real self-doubt thinking, right, okay, I just want to, you know, I want to like I've never been the kind of person who's never been able to get out of bed, but I wanted to be that person. But I just felt rough, but then I've kind of come out the other side of it, and yes, I'm stressed. As you've seen, I have a long list of things in my head that I don't know how to let go of.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

We sorted those out.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

But but generally feel a bit more like while I haven't got it all figured out, I am moving towards having it figured out, and I'm just trying to be positive about it.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Good attitude.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

So I am thriving. Excellent, and a little bit surviving, but mainly thriving. It's an 80-20.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

That is superb. Yeah. Good to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

And do you think next week you will be thriving or will you be surviving?

SPEAKER_00 25:46

I think I'll be thriving. I think you'll be thriving as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

I guess we'll see. So I have a question for you.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

We've gone on for quite a long time about completely unwork-related stuff, but I did have something I wanted to speak to you about and ask you about.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Which is about brands.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

On air?

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

After I've been talking about death and legacy?

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yes. Okay. So I mean nobody will ever listen to this because that'll have turned off a long time ago.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

They're gonna go, what the hell is this?

SPEAKER_00 26:11

I've been thinking this week a lot about brands and branding.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

And how difficult it is to land on a consistent brand.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

So are we speaking in right?

SPEAKER_00 26:22

There's a photographer that I really like called Sean Tucker. And one of the things I really like about him is his branding has been consistent for the last seven, eight years. He's been a YouTuber for about 12. Yes. But you can see from eight years ago, all of his thumbnails exactly the same. Not exactly the same, but the format is the same, the structure is the same. You know instantly.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

As a DNA.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Yes, you you know, instantly, you don't even have to read it, you can just see visually, you know, it's one of his films.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Um that is carried across onto his website, it's carried across onto his self-publications, it's across the board. It's a very strong brand identity, and it's really simple, and I love it. Okay, it works so well.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

But I really struggle to understand how you get there and have the confidence to. I guess for me, it's the confidence if you come up with your brand, just stick with it. Because there's always an urge to tinker and tweak, and I know you've gone through that a number of times because your dad likes to do that.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

But okay, carry on.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Well, that's what you've told me anyway. Sorry, Chris. He'll never listen to this. But but yeah, how do you how do you decide on a brand and then stick with it?

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Well I have the answer. Excellent. Do you want me to give you the answer?

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Educate me.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Educator you. Um so we haven't turned that far enough. So um in reality, that we say in my business, we say that audiences have a sick sense for quality. They don't know why it's good, it's just good. Like we look at, I don't know, look at the Coca-Cola logo, it's just it's just good. You don't know why it's good, it just looks good. Like when you're when you're a user on one side and you're engaging with a product, you're engaging with a service, there's something about the experience that just feels bougie, no, that just feels nice, and you feel relaxed and you feel at ease with it, and that is often because it's got a certain elevated level of quality and consistency across the board. So most people, unlike we are as marketers and as people who work in the creative industry, awful people because we can't be sold to, because we are so used to seeing it from that perspective that we can't see it from the point of view of the people we're selling to. Like I look at something and I go, well, of course everyone knows about branding. Duh. But then I realise actually, no, not a lot of people do, and often we can't unsee or unknow the things we know about branding. So it makes it quite hard to take yourself out of that head. Like I told you with editing to count how many cuts there are in a conversation, it's the same thing. Once you've started doing that, ooh, disco ball, it it starts to um it starts to like you know. I'm sorry, I'm massively distracted by the disco ball. Um so with a good brand, and the way you do it is by having a solid base point, a solid foundation. So you look at the Howl Media and Howl Studios logos, you will see it is the shape and the rings and the colour. There's three things there's the rings that look pretty that have got a uniqueness to them in the sense they've got the little breaker in the top, there's the shape of the howl bit, and there's the font and the colour basically. But if they stay consistent, you can tweak whatever else you like, but if those things stay the same and don't change, and how you use them doesn't change, and it becomes remember becomes memorable, understandable, easy to consume, so a basic colour, basic shape, basic circles, basic this. But people automatically just go, ah, okay, I know what to expect. This is comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

But what happens is when people are constantly trying to change their brand, a lot of people change their brand rather than fixing the problems underneath. Because they think a rebrand will make this business so much better and more efficient. No, right, you can have no logo and a good business.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Yeah, it's considering a turd, isn't it? Let's be honest.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah, so yeah, a lot of people focus on how things look, but in reality it's basic brand DNA. So our rings, little howl rings, they go on everything and background of documents, and they have done for 10 years. And we haven't we've we've changed how the logo looks, we've never changed that shape. We've never really the colours have always kind of stayed consistent in the sense that there's two colours. Those colours change a lot, but there's two colours, and those two colours have stayed the same for a while. The structure, the shape, the rings, all of that stayed the same. But you can change everything else, keep certain things the same. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Thanks, that was interesting.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

I genuinely I can't think of anything else to come back with. You've kind of answered my question, and um that was that. I think more than anything we've realised that we're starting the stack and the glitter ball just went up, which is why somebody just went, oh, glitter ball, and the music is starting. So we probably should start drawing this to a close because I've got no idea how loud this is for anybody listening. So please turn it off. Izzy's about to start singing.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Yeah, so I'll be back in my lovely studio and goodbye from me.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Excellent.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Signing off.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Hour of a dead change. Until next time. Really? You you just started with a rat. Goodbye.