Allegedly Thriving

#10 - Ghosting, bears and piercings

• Issy and Martin • Season 1 • Episode 10

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0:00 | 38:13

In this episode of Allegedly Thriving, Izzy opens with an uncharacteristically slick intro before they immediately agreeing that the podcast probably needs a helpline disclaimer.


Feeling fresh from a long Easter break they talk about unread messages, professional anxiety and whether you should save the good stuff for “special occasions" or just enjoy them now!

They round out with wedding-industry horror, Build-A-Bear trauma, the weirdness of collecting things.

Its the usual mix of insightfulness and chaos




Thanks for listening to Allegedly Thriving and for coming along for the inevitable detours.

If you want to learn more about the two potentially unhinged presenters:

Martin - Photographer and Owner of Terry Harrison Art: Martin Newham Photography  and TerryHarrisonArt

Issy - Director, Owner and all round Digital Genius:  Howell Studios and Howell Media

SPEAKER_01

Anyhow, welcome to the Allegedly Thriving Podcast, the podcast where we ask whether you are thriving or merely surviving this wonderful world of small businesses in the Northeast.

SPEAKER_00

That sounded very professional.

SPEAKER_01

I know, I don't know where it came from.

SPEAKER_00

Very good.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, for anybody who's listening, because we're not recording it so no one's watching. Um, your face was just shocked there that I could just roll that off.

SPEAKER_00

Horror. Um, yeah, you're I'm I'm Izzy.

SPEAKER_01

I'm Martin. Yeah, we always forget that. I think this is episode eight. Uh, and if you've managed to make it this far, thank you. Uh, congratulations, and what are you thinking?

SPEAKER_00

Other help and support is available.

SPEAKER_01

Uh we probably need to start a helpline.

SPEAKER_00

I was gonna say helpline is 0800, don't call us.

SPEAKER_01

Uh maybe we need a little bit at the end of every episode that says if you've been affected by any of the things that have been mentioned in this podcast.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. If you need actual these aren't the voices in your head, even though they sound like it. This is what we this is what I live with, and this is what you live with on a daily basis. So are you thriving this week or are you surviving?

SPEAKER_01

I would like to ask you that question first because you've because you keep asking me first, and every time I just go on thriving.

SPEAKER_00

It's because I'm furiously trying to pace the conversation.

SPEAKER_01

I'm I'm I want to go for the more interesting answer, um, which is whether you are thriving or surviving. Because I'm just thriving because I'm always thriving.

SPEAKER_00

I want you to guess, am I thriving or surviving?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I would like to think that you're thriving because then I'm I'm an optimist.

SPEAKER_00

I am. First time in what feels like months. I actually am. I feel this week.

SPEAKER_01

I just two seconds. I'm gonna sit there and put applause over that for the shit hell of it.

SPEAKER_00

The great thing is I said two seconds of major pause on something that I could just cut and put you asked me if I'm thriving or surviving, only to I was thriving until I had to do this podcast with you. Um I I am thriving. I was gonna say, you can't see the look on my face if you're listening to this. If I was I was I am thriving, yes, because what I was worried about last week was a humongous workload being dropped on my head and feeling completely out of my depth. But we have just had the Easter break, and Jesus Christ, I know he was crucified, but Jesus Christ, it's good for the soul to have some time off. Like to literally have five days off I had where I didn't think about work, and work did sometimes creep into my brain, and I was like, no, no, we're off, and other people being off as well, not just me, but like the whole world was off. So well, the whole Christian-facing world was off celebrating Easter. That was the reset I needed. So I've come back, and the workload is going to be big, but not straight away.

SPEAKER_01

I think it is it is good to sometimes have a break of a few days where you can just rest, relax, focus on what's important, which is family, friends, and basically enjoying the one life you've got and not spending it all working. But I think it helps rebuild those that mental fortitude. So when you come in, you can then face the same problem with a new light, a new why.

SPEAKER_00

Like there were certain things that over the weekend I was like, I like because I I did a long stint after we recorded our last one on the run up to the time off, going, if I get it all done now, at least I can turn my brain off. But there were parts of what I didn't do last week where I thought, oh shit, I'm gonna feel terrible and I'm gonna think about this all weekend and whatever it may be. And then I came in yesterday and did the tasks that were hanging over me, not hanging over me, but I knew were the first thing on my list that filled me with a bit of Sunday night dread on Monday morning sort of thing. But coming in yesterday, I did those tasks, they were pretty painless, felt pretty good, had some very good feedback from a client, and generally it was and and because it's Easter holidays, it's pretty quiet, so I'm not being inundated with emails, I'm not having it was like a nice soft return, which I did quite like. And that's that's what I've needed. I've needed other people to be off because I think when you're a business owner you uh you give up the nine to five for the 24-7 sort of thing. But what happens is is that people there's a there's almost like you are because it's in the best interests of your business, you are available all the time for emails, for WhatsApps, for questions, for people to constantly be bombarding you with information because that's the kind of approachableness that you've wanted to have, and then you regret it. What happens is that when other people are off, that gives me a chance to breathe again because I know that I'm not gonna have all those people that have had it on their list to contact me to do it the first day they're back, which is normally what happens every Monday morning. Everyone who I have been as a business owner, I am on someone's list everywhere. Hopefully, not a hit list, but I am on someone's list everywhere. Someone knows they have to contact me or email me or ask for a thing or whatever, but I'm glad I'm not on anyone's list for a bit. If that makes sense. Because that's the bit that's overwhelming is not so much the me doing the contacting, it's being contacted.

SPEAKER_01

See, I I spent most of the weekend uh, first of all, completely discombobulated because Yeah, you texted me going, what day is it? Yeah, because it was a bank holiday Friday, but in my head it was like a Saturday because we were doing the things you do on a Saturday because it was a bank holiday Friday and you weren't working. Which meant then Saturday was completely messed up. But by the time I got to Monday, I didn't have a clue what I was doing.

SPEAKER_00

I quite like it though.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I was a bit confused.

SPEAKER_00

It was nice. Although I did accidentally nearly book a soft play session for Saturday, thinking it was Saturday, and it was actually Friday, and I would have gone a day early. Wait, so I I explained For my daughter, not for me.

SPEAKER_01

That's what you say. Do they give you special shoes for the soft play?

SPEAKER_00

No, but some of them you get special socks, which I'm not really that keen on. Because the idea of like, why do I need the special socks? And then that gets me thinking of all these horrible, horrible things, and I don't want to unthink them.

SPEAKER_01

So I experienced something over the weekend which is still relatively new to me. Um it's business related, don't worry. So you know, trying to build up a fledgling, a fledgling photography business, trying to sit there and go out to clients. My um approach is not very aggressive because I have the luxury of a bit of a secondary income. So I can establish long-term relationships before the money starts coming in. I'm not necessarily that, you know, um money focused at this point in time. So I'm doing a lot of speculative conversations with people. I'm trying to sit there and hone my products about how I approach portrait sessions, those sorts of things. So I had a really good meeting with somebody on Thursday of last week, and I sent a bunch of information across and I didn't get a reply. Now, this shouldn't have bothered me because it was bank holiday weekend, and that's absolutely fine. I shouldn't have expected a reply until Monday. But in my in but inside my head, sorry, Tuesday, but inside my head, there was a little voice. It's that little voice, and you know you'll know this voice well. It's that voice that goes, he must have read it by now.

SPEAKER_00

He hates you.

SPEAKER_01

Does he not like me? I thought it went really well. Oh, maybe I've misread it entirely. Oh God.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, and and and then then the other part of me's girl waiting by the phone, fiddling your thing. 100%.

SPEAKER_01

And then the other part of me was going, no, no, it'll be daft, it's Bang Holiday. I'll be an idiot. But I think there's that insecurity level, especially when you're starting out, when you're when when you're confident in your ability to do the job, but you're still building that confidence in um communicating that with people, with with getting people on board with what you're trying to do, with basically working with him, getting a client. Yeah. And you know, I'm at the early stages of doing that, so yeah, I was very much, is he is he gonna take me to the prom type thing. Is he gonna call me? And then thankfully, thankfully, he actually messaged on the Saturday saying, Ah, I thought you hadn't messaged, and then I looked here and I hadn't seen them and stuff, and I was like, Yes!

SPEAKER_00

Did you did you do a little woo-hoo?

SPEAKER_01

I kind of, it was weight lifted. Um, but I need to look back on that in the way that I do look at things from an external third party. I kind of hover above my own shoulders and go, Oh, yeah, what an idiot, what are you doing? Um, I I did have a big good long hard word with myself as if to say, don't be an idiot.

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah, but then also it's natural because you put your heart and soul into things and then but then I I have had years and years and years and years and years of that feeling. And does it get better? No, and the but no, but you're so so now it's like because I'm pretty it happens quite a lot where people get excited about what you do, they get excited about the prospect of working with you, and then you go on to the thorny subject of money, and then suddenly they ghost you. I've been ghosted a lot, and most business owners have, where you basically you get used to that process where you're like, Oh well, whatever, sodom, move on. And that you get used to the rejection in a weird way, and you kind of just go, Oh well, next one, keep going. And some of them hurt, but I think that what I also do is when I send that email or whatever with like the quote and stuff, and I'm there going like, will he call me back? sort of thing, is that I I think about myself when I'm doing my emails, and I think about what I'm like with my communication, which is the days that I'm off, which are sometimes which are weekdays with my daughter, I don't put an out of office on. So people will email me on the Thursday and I probably won't respond until I'm back at work, but that's purely because I'm there with my daughter, and that's it. Like, but but they might be sat there going, Why isn't she responding? Why isn't she doing this?

SPEAKER_01

So why don't you have an out of office?

SPEAKER_00

Because I know that if it's something urgent enough, I will respond straight away because it's on my phone. But at the same time, out of office-wise, I'm I'm always I have no boundaries insofar as anyone can reach me at any point. And if it's deemed, if basically it is I want to book this project right now, can I work with you? I'll be like, I will drop Esme on the floor, grab my phone and respond straight away. If it's uh, oh, could you sort this? I'll be like, right, okay. Mentally that's on the to-do list for next week, but I'm not gonna respond. But they might be sat there going, oh, will she, won't she? They might be on edge like I am. So I've started to think of it like, oh, there's a million different reasons why a person may not look at your email straight away. Often it's because they've got so much going on and I'm not that important.

SPEAKER_01

Have you ever delivered a quote face to face?

SPEAKER_00

Uh in what respect?

SPEAKER_01

As in you've gone away, you've put the quote together, not email it, have a call. Zoom call.

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, I've done face-to-face, like literally sat in the same room.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and how does that how does that go?

SPEAKER_00

It's a lot it's quite it's quite funny because the time that I'm thinking about was for a council and it was to do a project for them. And um we went in and we it was about five grand, I think the amount was, and that was basically us going, you don't know what people's budgets are, particularly when it's like public money and stuff. So we were sort of going, well, that's actually realistically we were thinking they're gonna push us back on this and whatever. And we went in, we said, So for us to do this project, it will be five grand and something, I can't remember what it was. And their immediate response, literally within about a millisecond, you could see all their faces going, Oh, that's loads cheaper than we thought it was gonna be. Oh, brilliant, yeah.

unknown

We were like, fuck.

SPEAKER_01

We're low, we've been low balled. Damn it.

SPEAKER_00

I think my dad's response immediately was, can I go out and come back in? Like, but we were like going in this naive idea of oh my god, they're gonna push back on that. And they were like, Brilliant. We I could have I probably lost five grand there and then. I could have charged ten and probably got away with it. So quoting in person, it's I only ever give ballparks now. Because if someone says, Oh, before you send the quote, can you give me a rough idea of how much it's gonna be? I'll say, Oh yeah, you're looking between the region of 1,000 and 20,000.

SPEAKER_01

No, I mean I think what what I meant was, you know, you've sent the email with the fully fleshed out quote and the number at the bottom, and that's when you're saying you get ghosted and people just never come back and stuff like that. Have you ever just thought, let's do that face to face, let's do a zoom call. I'm here, I've got your quote, I'm gonna tell you how much it's gonna cost. Do it face to face because that instantly puts you in a position of authority. But puts them in a position of, oh, I'm now facing this person.

SPEAKER_00

So it only really matters when it's in writing, though. So I get that. People can verbally say everything till the cows come home, but as soon as you send an email and say, Hey, can you just confirm you're happy with this? Suddenly, it's like, oh, or or it's or or you get the spurious excuses of oh, I'm just about to take some leave, or oh, someone's just left, and oh, we're going in a different direction, or oh it's like it's basically running a business or selling is a bit like dating in the sense that a lot of people are too scared to dump you without being brutally honest, and a lot of people are scared to make the first move, a lot of people are scared to talk about stuff because it's like, oh, what if I say the wrong thing and it scares them off? Like it's very much that. And then unless you've got two people on either side who are both up for it and are seriously involved and ready, it's never gonna work.

SPEAKER_01

I think we've all had that when I was I was I I was uh I approached somebody to say I want to take your photograph a couple of weeks ago. Um, and it was a big networking event, and I went up to them and said, Oh, I want to take your photograph. And their first response was with my clothes on and my clothes off. And then you what did you say? I just looked at them and I was like, Depends. I don't mind, you know, what I'm not really sure. Um you said not for my private collection. But I spoke to them about a week later, and they were just like, That's what happens with my face. But sometimes my my brain mouth barrier just disappears, and I just blurt this stuff out, and I was like, and you're the kind of person that I like because I like people who do that, who just sit there and go, the verbal diarrhea comes out and honesty comes out. Oh, yeah. That was obviously the first thing they thought of, and I thought that's brilliant because I think that's hilarious. Yeah, I think it's really funny that their brain instantly went there. I mean, and like I'll try boudoir photos, that's fine, you know.

SPEAKER_00

It reminds me of when um because my brother is very similar to that, insofar as he he does things and says things that are reserved purely for like sitcom characters from like the 90s. One of them was we when me and him used to work doing wedding videos, which is something I will never do again because wedding videos are stressful, um, we would go to wedding fairs together. And uh not like to shop for each other, but like to sell wedding videos. That was just a visceral remote. Oh, our wedding sort of they're stressful, but there's all people selling like their wares in terms of like, oh, here's all the cupcakes we do, here's a donut board, here's a photography booth, here's this, here's that. And you people who are getting married shop around and go, Oh, I'll book you to do my wedding cake, I'll book you to do my photography, whatever it may be. There was one where they were selling these cupcakes where they like printed photos of the bride and groom and they had them on like paper on the cupcake. And they go, My brother is the kind of person a bit like me will go straight for a free food sample and not really pay attention to what the sales pitch is. So he took one of the cupcakes that's had like a photo on the top and was like had it basically shoved in his cup to a point where it's like and they said, Oh yeah, and well, we have um we print photos of the people and put them on top of the cake, and um and and I I was like nodding along politely, and my brother with a mouthful of cupcake went, It's a paper edible, like spraying like cupcake everywhere as if he'd just been poisoned by these cupcake people, and they looked at him like, Well, yeah, and he was like, Oh, grun, and literally was like had the whole thing in his mouth, and I was like, Tom, what are you doing?

unknown

Stop it!

SPEAKER_00

Like, and that just reminded me of that where you're like, Well, of course it is, you idiot.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think uh a wedding terrifies me. I think a lot of photographers start in weddings and they kind of become wedding photographers because there's really good money in it, right? A good wedding photographer is worth their weight in gold because they will do a hell of a job and it's not an easy job. For me, that is way too much responsibility and way too much stress. I do not want to be dealing with a million prima donnas on their special day, it would just the whole thing would do my nutton.

SPEAKER_00

It's not even that, it's more that every wedding is the same. No matter how hard people try to make them different, they are all the same, every single one. I mean, through different filmmakers that I've worked with and people that I know who've worked in the wedding industry, the stories, the stories, whoa, that's some big stuff.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, for context, my first wedding we we went to Turkey with a very select few members of the family, so it was a small wedding. And my second wedding, we eloped, so it was just the two of us when we went to Devon.

SPEAKER_00

What about your third?

SPEAKER_01

Well, Jane's still going fine, so you know it's it's all good. I mean, we're we're off to Devon in two weeks' time to celebrate our third wedding anniversary.

SPEAKER_00

Is it a place on earth?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_00

Good.

SPEAKER_01

Devon knows how they make it so creamy.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I don't even know how to stop that.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's one apiece.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that is no, you've killed me. Yes, apparently that was funny.

SPEAKER_01

But but um but yeah, for for the context, I've never been a wedding wedding-y person. No, I don't particularly like going to them as a guest. Um, I find them just as a groom.

SPEAKER_00

Just yeah, yeah. I find them quite annoying. I'd like to go to some as a guest versus being part of the wedding. All the weddings I've been to have either been my own or like being part of the wedding party, like being the best man at my brother's wedding, being like part of it. So you have to be in it and do the things and plan the things and like I plan my brother's stagdo, best stagdoo anyone's ever been on, because hey, I was that was a I did a good job there. But like doing the speech, I had to like close the speeches and stuff and like the pressure. I panicked and did a poem off by heart or no, I I wrote a poem about my brother and stuff. And do you do you remember it? No, but what I do remember is that there was so my brother when he was about nine got a you know when you used to go to Builder Bear and get an animal and then you would record a s a voice or a sound or something, you press it and it worked. But my auntie had a dog stuffed like a toy plushy dog from Builder Bear that my brother did when he was about nine, where he recorded, I am King Droopy, all bow.

SPEAKER_01

King Droopy.

SPEAKER_00

All bow like that, with his little high-pitched voice, and I hid it from everyone. And then at the end of the poem, I said, and something, something, something, something, and now I held up the dog, put the mic to it, and then King Droopy had the final Oh, brilliant. And then the final line of my best man speech was my brother aged like nine, going, I am King Droopy all about.

SPEAKER_01

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00

I know, and it got a huge riotous applause. What?

SPEAKER_01

I said, That's amazing, and then I noticed it. But no, um the Builder Bear.

SPEAKER_00

It was, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, see, I've learned from the best. Um that's amazing. So the Builder Bear, I remember Builder Bear. I remember going to Builder Bear with a girlfriend at the time in the early noughties, um, and being forced to kiss a heart and make wishes and all of this stuff against my will. I did not want to do any of this. And I'm going in and it's happening. Um, and then it gets to the point where everything's being shoved in the bear and they start filling the bear. And honest to God, the experience of watching the unceremonia to get that pedal, aren't they?

SPEAKER_00

And they sort of it's actually quite traumatic. They stuff it.

SPEAKER_01

Well, well, it's just like a giant hypodermic needle, and they just sit there and go, shove it, and they fill one leg and then the next leg, and then the arms, and they make and then the head. Yeah, and you're watching them do this, and because it's their 1700th of the day, it's like all done nice and quick.

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, but have you been recently?

SPEAKER_01

No.

SPEAKER_00

Because now you have to do all the filling stuff, and then you have to do a birth certificate, so you have to fill in their details on a screen and type in their name and then you go into the little wardrobe thing where you get to pick their clothes, which are like more expensive than adult clothes, I would argue. Yeah. But um I take Esme on a birthday because when it's your birthday and you go into Builder Bear, you pay your age for a teddy bear. And she's obviously three, and last year she was two, so it's cost me five quid in total. But I feel like the older she's getting, the more I'm gonna get fleeced. Because imagine going in now at your age, you've it would cost a fortune.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, but I'm forty five and I wouldn't go into Builder Bear.

SPEAKER_00

But I'd love to have someone who's forty five going into Builder Bear and going, Can I pay my age? Just pay. 45 quid for a teddy bear. So there I just don't know when it stops being good value. It's probably 10, maybe 15 that it stops being like I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

It depends. You you can get some very nice bears, like proper bears. They get quite spenny. There's a place called Whitney. That's it. Bears of Whitney in Gloucestershire. Oh, and there's Stanford's. Yeah, but they're all handmade. And Jane's got a Whitney bear because we got one when we got married. We went past. So we're probably going to try and go past and get her another one. Because little Sam the Bears feeling a bit lonely on her own. But you know, they are 100 quid bears.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but people obviously say people, you you're like people are into it. Yeah. You can collect a lot of them.

SPEAKER_01

And and the shop is appointment only in the shop. I know. You've got to make an appointment. Or you just do what we do and turn up and they let you in anyway. But technically it's appointment only. And then you walk in and it's a bit creepy because um are they all staring at you? Yes, they're all BDIs, literally BDIs. They're just watching you. Yeah. And the eyes obviously follow you around the store.

SPEAKER_00

What's the weirdest thing you've ever collected?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, um, I haven't really been much of a collector. I've I've got like comics from when I was in my early years and stuff like that. I've still got some of those, and I've kept a load of stuff from my childhood that I'm now slowly farming off to my nephews.

SPEAKER_00

So, what's something that you want to collect but you're too embarrassed? And you'll worry people will judge you.

SPEAKER_01

I'm not really a collector. Oh I can't I'm sorry, I can't off the top of my head think of something that I would collect. I mean, I'd probably things like snail shells that are interesting, or uh, you know, just natural stuff. I mean, I as a kid, I was the kind of person, I was the kind of kid who'd like find an interesting stick and keep it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, I even told you about Mickey Shin.

SPEAKER_01

Mickey Shin?

SPEAKER_00

Mickey Shin. Mickey Shin. Mickey Shin. Um when I was about four or three, my parents before my dad got food poisoning used to like mussels. Like the shellfish mussels. Um, not just like body filters. My parents used to like. They used to like mussels, and they'd used to my mum would make them with all these lovely butters and all that stuff. So it was like a big thing in my childhood that my parents for dinner on like a Friday night would have like a glass of a bottle of wine normally, and and like a plate of mussels. And I used to love the shells that they used to, the mussel shells, and I got one and I decided I was gonna call it Mickey Shin. I have no idea what was wrong with me as a child. And I went, this is Mickey Shin, and literally Mickey Shin, the muscle shell, was like I took it everywhere. I slept holding it, I took it everywhere with me. But I didn't realize because muscle shells go a bit manky and rotten and whatever. My parents would often swap out Mickey Shin without me realising. But I had a muscle shell called Mickey Shin and I had two baby dolls, one called Armless and one called Jesus Billy.

SPEAKER_01

You had an act for naming, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00

Which is why Esme is called Esme. No, um Yeah, so I had Mickey. She's got one up because I had I had Mickey Shin, Armless, and Jesus Billy.

SPEAKER_01

Jesus Billy. I have no idea why I called it Jesus Billy.

SPEAKER_00

But I uh that's the thing. I had like a since I was a kid, I would collect strange things.

SPEAKER_01

So segue and tangent because that's what I do and that's what we do. On a second. Um how old were you when you realised that when you eat mussels, you're supposed to take the muscle out of the first one and then use the shells as little grippers to eat the rest.

SPEAKER_00

Is that how evolution intended it?

SPEAKER_01

That's the best way, isn't it? Because they're literally little sniper grippers.

SPEAKER_00

I had a muscle for well, since I was about four.

SPEAKER_01

Oh really?

SPEAKER_00

Why? Yeah. Because my dad got bad food poisoning from a set, and as a fellow person who's terrified of sickness and nausea and everything attached to that, instantly I was like, right, well, I'm not having that. I haven't had them since.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, you're missing out. Mules frites. So mussels and fr fries.

SPEAKER_00

I'd love to.

SPEAKER_01

Go to a French bistro, get Moules Fritz in a cream garlic sauce. Oh. Honestly, absolutely delicious. Because you you have you have you have all of the mussels, and then you've just basically just got garlic cream in the bottom. That sounds so good with the with the cooking liquor, and then you dump the rest of the fries in so it soaks it all up.

SPEAKER_00

That sounds amazing. I mean, I'm I'm salivating. I know I'm really hungry. I'm significantly less funny about food and stuff now. So I have like sushi and stuff, which is like raw fish, so it should be fine. But yeah, so Mickey Shin, that was that's part of my life that you never knew about.

SPEAKER_01

Cool.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, so you wouldn't collect anything then?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, not really.

SPEAKER_00

No, um books, yeah, but that's that's kind of a bit lame, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I mean, don't get us wrong, I've got a shed full of tools and all sorts of stuff that I don't necessarily want to get rid of, but I don't go out of my way to collect them.

SPEAKER_00

See, I collected as a kid, I collected creepy China dolls. Like I had the whole six wives at Henry the Eighth, and I had really creepy ones. You know the ones that you see in like Beamish and stuff that like stare at you, or like those really haunted ones and antique centres and whatever. I had loads of those, and every time I had a family member who had to stay at our house and they had to sleep in my room, they were absolutely terrified. Because I had loads of creepy dolls. I don't know why. I just like things like that. Weird stuff.

SPEAKER_01

Fair enough. I mean, why not? Do you still have them?

SPEAKER_00

No. Uh I then I've also collected hundreds of rubber ducks, which is another one. And where are they all? I don't know. They've just throughout my life, they just would probably get binned, to be fair. I'm probably the reason there's a global warming crisis.

SPEAKER_01

Hang on, hang on. You can't really collect them if you don't have them now. A collection implies that you've still got them.

SPEAKER_00

Well no, I'd have the collection for a bit. Not a bit. I'd have it for a few years and then go.

SPEAKER_01

So how would you display the robber duckies? Are they all lined up along the bus?

SPEAKER_00

I had them all along shelf.

SPEAKER_01

Did you?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, in order of size.

SPEAKER_01

It would have been great if you just started slowly putting them all around the house.

SPEAKER_00

I had a Scottish one that had like a big Grenadier guard style hat and a bagpipes.

SPEAKER_01

My um my my stepmum on my dad's side, they've just renovated their house and um she's got all of these little mice all over, like doing little things, like little fancy mice doing all sorts of things all over the house.

SPEAKER_00

That's cute.

SPEAKER_01

Everywhere you look, every time you go down you look, you see different mice doing different things.

SPEAKER_00

I like collectors. I've always been in I've always admired people who collect things. I don't know why. Like I love the fact that there's grown adults that collect like Barbies or collect I don't know, like teddies or whatever. Not that it's my thing, but I just like the fact that there's people who have dedicated their whole lives to having their own little collection.

SPEAKER_01

Can you ever can you ever understand the idea of buying a toy and then not opening it?

SPEAKER_00

No. Even I have Funko Pops, uh, two of them are there. Um they come straight out of the box. Because what's the point? Life is about just enjoying the thing and putting it out there. And what's the point of keeping something in a box forever just so it's more valuable? You may as well just go set up a bank account somewhere and put some money in it.

SPEAKER_01

It's um it's why some some real high-end exotic cars, it's always a bit of a shame because they do all of this development, they do all of this research, they create this most amazing driving machine and then 90% of them are just bought and shoved in a good private garage somewhere to appreciate in value and never get used. And you just think it's so sad because the whole purpose of them is to be driven.

SPEAKER_00

Just put the money in a bank account and watch the interest go up. Like I just I think. But what's your opinion on to go off that point? What's your opinion on saving things for best?

SPEAKER_01

What do you mean? Sorry.

SPEAKER_00

So um like there was always this this thing from years ago, I suppose. It's like a thing that there's you have like your nice stuff that you save for special occasions, like nice outfits or nice plates, or nice tablecloths, or nice cutlery, or nice mugs, or the nice stuff, nice chocolate, nice things that you like candles.

SPEAKER_01

I I have a nice thing you save for best. I have a nice suit because everybody needs to have a nice suit. I've got a pair of shoes that goes with that suit sorted. I have a nice watch that I bought when I got some redundancy money, so I've got like a nice tagger watch that I will sometimes wear. And I I will tend to wear it for a few weeks at a time, not for any special occasions just because I fancy a change, but then I realize that actually I always just prefer the little crappy smart watch that I've got because that gives me everything I need from a watch and more, you know, it gives me the date and the time, and I can see certain things and it can measure my steps.

SPEAKER_00

Do you ever save stuff because it's nice? Oh, I can't possibly use that because it's too nice.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, not really.

SPEAKER_00

Because I'm all about just using stuff like burn the nice candle, wear the nice clothes, do the nice things because that's what life's about.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, we just we yeah, I mean, I don't have things that are being saved just in case.

SPEAKER_00

But that's the so like what you know when you watch TV shows, I know we've been talking a while, but you know when you watch TV shows and something sticks with you and you go, Oh god, I can't unthink that, is the have you seen the man on the inside? No. You'd love it, it's on Netflix, it's brilliant. But there's a there's a scene where there's a person who lives in a retirement home who is like a rebellious older person or whatever, and she buys a massage chair with like she gets like a bit of money, like one of those really expensive ones that you sit in, it's like the whole the one you see at the airport. She buys one of those and she sits in it and she says, Oh, I've wanted one of these for like 20 years or like my whole life, I've always wanted one of these. And then she sits in it and she goes, Why why didn't I do this sooner? Why didn't I just buy it? And then she dies, and you're like, Oh, like and then I was there going, right, I need to do all the things, I need to all the things that I thought, oh, I won't buy that because I won't eat, I won't do this. Like, buy the damn thing, eat the damn thing.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, I think do the damn thing, watch the damn thing. I I'm I I'm not a 100% advocate of the whole YOLO at uh attitude because you need to have some sense and sensibility behind you know future planning and planning to be alive for 80 years on this planet, but there's people but at the same time, make time to do the things that you want to do now because you might not be here. So I think there needs to be a balance, and you need to sit there and try new things, have a bucket list, make the time, put the money to one side if you can, to go and explore the things and and and do things that do things that don't take money. You can you can try things that don't take money. Like if anybody out there is feeling creative and they just they they've never they've never thought they've got an idea for a book, but they've they've thought, oh, I could never write a book. Just start writing. It doesn't matter what you're doing it on. Do it on bits of paper, do it on a little notebook.

SPEAKER_00

At least you say you've done it.

SPEAKER_01

Just start writing. Yeah, I think there's there's there would be nothing worse than getting to your deathbed and saying, I just wish I tried. Because you can always try. I would much rather get to that. Sorry, I would much rather get to my deathbed and go, I might have failed a lot of times, but at least I gave it a go every time. So, you know, I might have I might have been really shit at golf because I wanted to be a professional golfer, I might have failed, but at least I tried and I realized I'm shit at golf. By the way, I've never done golf. And I never want to do, but that's just an example.

SPEAKER_00

No, but it's but the thing is as well, is is that I always think when you see people who are dying or have some sort of premature terminal illness or whatever it may be, and they know they've got a few months left or whatever, and that's my biggest fear is that feeling of, oh god, yeah, you know, because because they all every single person you see that is in that position goes, I wish I'd done this, or I wish I'd and they suddenly live life like to the absolute fullest because they're gonna get everything out of it. And I think that there's a feeling like you have to have that sort of you have to be in a position where you know it's not gonna last forever to really understand what you need to do now. So, like I have my book, my boring bucket list.

SPEAKER_01

So, a question for you in that vein, okay. So, if you decide that actually you're gonna make sure you spend some time every in your every year of your life doing those things that you really wanted to do, that you would look back on and go, I wish I had. Okay, but you have Esme, three, gonna be four this year, okay?

SPEAKER_00

Four next year.

SPEAKER_01

Four next year, whatever. When was her birthday?

SPEAKER_00

30th of January. Oh yeah, I remember.

SPEAKER_01

Uh anyway, so you've got Esme. So Esme, by her very presence and existence, will in some ways limit some of the things you might want to do. True, kind of. Like, no, just practically practically practically, just in terms of if you want to travel, see things, do things. You know what I mean? So would you countenance or would you think you would be it would be acceptable for you to leave Esme with your grandparents for two or three days while you go off and do something that you've always wanted to do? Is that something you you could do?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Good.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that was uh No it is good. I I think you should. I I think you should then do it. But I think I what's stopping you? But then what gets in the way is is the other things of because Esme's grandparents look after her when you know I do get that break for a weekend, or I do or I need time to get my head down and do some of the housework or get my head down and do some we it's all about getting my head down. It's not I want you to look after Esme so I can go and do a I'm trying to think of something off my bucket list, go and uh learn a particular type of knitting. Oh, I haven't got that on my list, I'm just making it up as I go along. But to can you look after Esme so I can go off and do this thing? Like that's not something that ever fits into my head. But at the same time, like there's things on my list that previously I'd have gone, oh that's a big deal, I couldn't possibly do that. That's like a thing that's distant on the list. So now I look at it and go, I could do that on Wednesday.

SPEAKER_01

Like what?

SPEAKER_00

Well, like one of them is make my own pasta.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, you could do that.

SPEAKER_00

I could do that. It's basically flour, eggs, and a bit of water, probably. Um other one is get my nose pierced. Get more piercings in my ears, put holes in my face basically. And actually, I could just do that. Why am I dicking about having it on a list? I could just go do it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, why not just make an appointment next week and go and get it done?

SPEAKER_00

And you don't need an appointment, you just walk in.

SPEAKER_01

Well just go and do it then.

SPEAKER_00

I know. Well that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01

Just bloody do it.

SPEAKER_00

That's the thing. So it's that thing where it's like there's stuff on my bucket, not bucket list as in like go skydiving. This is a boring bucket list. This is every guy's sky.

SPEAKER_01

Your boring bucket list, I think, is something everyone should have.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like we should save that for the next episode and I will run through it.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Because and and and we're 40 minutes in.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, well, we better stop.

SPEAKER_00

And you haven't even said if you're thriving or surviving. We've just been talking.

SPEAKER_01

Well, we should probably wrap it up then. I'm thriving, I'm always thriving. So, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Although, yeah, but I was telling my phone while you're saying that.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe more surviving than thriving, but that we'll get to that next week. We'll get to it next week. It's fine. It's fine. This is this is episode eight. Oh my god! It's okay.

SPEAKER_00

We've gone through seven episodes and you're thriving, and you're finally surviving. What happened? It's not really been much of a week.

SPEAKER_01

We have a bank holiday weekend. Oh, is that it?

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So let's go with thriving and then we'll we'll get on it next week.

SPEAKER_00

No, I'm worried. Hashtag we worry about marketing.

SPEAKER_01

Can we give it to Number Trick?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, bye. Bye. Oh, that would be amazing. That's not a play.