The Planify Podcast

How to Integrate Faith and Business for Growth w/ Keith Bower | Planify Podcast Ep. 2

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👉 Get your custom Business Growth Strategy Blueprint: https://planify.agency

Shatter your corporate revenue goals without sacrificing your family, faith, or health. Discover how to close the structural gap between marketplace execution and lasting purpose. 

Welcome to Episode 2 of The Planify Podcast! In this session, host Casey Cease sits down with Keith Bower, Chair of C12 Business Forums (Brazos Valley), to dismantle a silent crisis plaguing modern business owners, entrepreneurs, and executives: strategic isolation, personal burnout, and the relentless velocity of technological disruption. 

Keith shares his unique bi-vocational journey—moving from a chemistry background into 20 years of vocational ministry while simultaneously serving as a corporate project management consultant on over 100 major capital projects across 25 countries for energy titans like Chevron. If you have built a financially successful company but find your personal life suffering from a "flat tire," this conversation is your blueprint for realignment. Casey and Keith deep-dive into C12’s proprietary "Balance Wheel" framework, explore why high-touch human leadership must scale alongside high-tech automation, and explain how to defeat the executive isolation that limits enterprise potential. 

🕒 CHAPTERS & TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Welcome And What To Expect 

01:20 Keith’s Path From Ministry To CEO Coaching 

03:31 Closing The Faith And Business Gap 

04:42 Leading Well as a Spiritual Duty 

06:33 AI Anxiety And People-First Decisions 

08:02 Ethical Questions of AI and Human Skill 

08:16 Postponing Business Decisions 

11:47 Innovation Beyond Products And Profit 

11:49 Value Shifts in Changing Environments 

12:56 Shifting Focus From Profit to Purpose 

14:39 Human Nature as an Anchor in Change 

15:46 Culture And The High-Tech High-Touch Rule 

19:43 Rehumanizing the Workforce 

20:29 CEO Loneliness And The Cost Of Imbalance 

20:46 Isolation and Estrangement 

21:22 Competency vs. Family Capacity 

21:52 The Balance Wheel And Real Accountability 

22:54 Real Accountability to Overcome Flaws 

25:22 Prioritizing Personal Life Over Profit

26:25 True Definition of Success 

26:43 Final Advice And Finding Your People 

26:55 Overcoming Isolation with Peers 

28:14 Commit to Your People 

28:24 Outro / How to Connect  

💡 KEY TAKEAWAYS FROM THIS EPISODE:

  • The "Balance Wheel" Framework: Why a corporate tire that is flat on only one side is still a flat tire. Learn how to track your family, health, and faith right alongside your financial metrics. 
  • High-Tech vs. High-Touch: As artificial intelligence scales across operational workflows, elite leaders must deliberately double down on deep human connection to protect company culture and customer loyalty.
  • Rehumanizing the Workforce: Shifting your operational paradigm from viewing employees as line-item corporate equipment to honoring them as valuable human capital entrusted to your leadership stewardship. 
  • Defeating Executive Isolation: Why leading from an isolated silo limits your corporate growth ceiling and how peer advisory cohorts reveal critical blind spots. 

🔗 RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

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#FaithAndBusiness #BusinessStrategy #ExecutiveCoaching #PlanifyAgency #C12Forums #LeadershipDevelopment #CEOLoneliness

Welcome And What To Expect

Speaker 1

Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Planify Podcast. On today's show, we have Keith Bower, who is the chair of C12 in the Brazos Valley here in Texas. Keith has a background in business and in ministry and has now been a coach and leader for the last five years, working with business owners and entrepreneurs and CEOs, helping them integrate their faith into their business. We're going to talk about leadership struggles. We're going to talk about AI and how business owners are trying to figure out how to navigate that. We're going to talk about what it looks like to really have a balanced life that goes beyond just a successful business. We're going to talk about the importance of having other business owners that we can do life with and enjoy sharing our struggles with and getting accountability and being encouraged towards a deeper, meaningful work that we do in our businesses. So let's enjoy the show. Keith is the chair of the Brazos Valley C12 group for entrepreneurs and business owners. And Keith and I have been friends for several years, known each other from ministry background and in business. And so, Keith, I'm really excited to have you today on the Planify Podcast. Appreciate you coming to Brenham, our studio, and to chat with us. So why don't you start out by sharing a little bit of your background and how you find yourself today being the chair of the Brazos Valley

Keith’s Path From Ministry To CEO Coaching

Speaker 1

C12?

Speaker 2

Yeah, thanks. I grew up in the Houston area. I was a chemistry major at the University of Houston and worked for a short period of time doing epoxy resins process development research. But uh while I was working in the lab during most of the day, I was leading a Bible study during the lunch hour and really felt like that's kind of how God had wired me together. So I spent the next 20 years or so actually in pastoral ministry. But late in that time, around 2008, I felt like God was calling me out of pastoral ministry into urban ministry, primarily church planting. And I didn't have a clue how I was going to make a living. And what happened is I ended up pivoting back into oil and gas, this time as a project management consultant on major capital projects in the oil and gas industry. I was one of those guys that had two passports. I was traveling more than half the time. I worked in probably 25, 26 different countries consulting on projects. I remember one year I probably touched a quarter of all Chevron's major capital projects in the whole world. So it was quite a dramatic shift away from pastoral ministry into oil and gas consulting. And now God's got me back into a new role, uh, actually five years now, combining the ministry background with business as part of something called C12. And what we do in C12 is we help Christian business owners and CEOs kind of close the gap between their faith and their business. We talk about helping them build great businesses for a greater purpose. And we're very serious about that great business part. I coach about 30 CEOs and business owners here in the Brazos Valley. And for your viewers that aren't from this part of Texas, that includes Bryan College Station, where Texas A&M University is located, and also right here in Brenham, Texas. And it's a wonderful opportunity to work across a lot of different industries with a lot of different really great accomplished leaders and encounter a lot of the frontline challenges that they face every day, not just on the faith side, but on the business side of their businesses. So it's a it's a wonderful front row seat I get to uh enjoy on a lot of exciting stories.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I know when I transitioned from full-time pastoral ministry, and I've always been intentionally bivocational, publishing books, doing other things, but I was surprised by how real it is that godly Christian men and women still bifurcate their faith from business. And so when I learned to C12 and what you're doing with C12, I realized there is an absolute need for Christian business owners who wanted to figure out ways to integrate their faith into their work. I I assumed, and maybe you did as well, I don't know. But I know when I was pastoring, I assumed that, well, yeah, they're following Jesus. They go to Bible study, do all this stuff. Clearly that spills over to work. And what I didn't realize until later on in the pastoral ministry is that a lot of people I knew in business were really confused on what does that mean? Either they would, you know, um wear a cross or talk about God a lot or things like that, but never really thought through what does it mean to have my faith integrated with the kind of work that I do? And especially those who own their own businesses and run their own businesses, there still seem to be a pretty large disconnect. And so over the last five years of working with these business owners, what are some common trends that you see amongst these business leaders?

Closing The Faith And Business Gap

Speaker 2

Well, that's exactly it's been my experience, exactly. And one of the things I've seen is that, for example, they tend to think that as they try to bring their faith into business, that it's all about like sharing the details of their faith with people, as though you know, like sharing the news about Jesus or something like that. And that can be part of it. But what they often overlook is that how we lead people is one of the most spiritual things that we can do. Are we leading them well? Uh, the kind of products and services we put out there, uh, you know, the quality of those things and the reliability of them are reflections of who we are and our character and the character and love of God. Uh, but all of these issues, uh, how we treat not just our employees, but our vendors and our customers and and everybody within range is all a reflection of that. Uh, but these these leaders have a lot of the same problems everyone else does. Uh, they're struggling to figure out how to navigate a period of rapid change. Uh, I think it was uh it was a former Prime Minister Trudeau who recently said, you know, that things have never changed this fast and they will never change this slow again. So the pace of change, of course, is just dizzying. And how to navigate that, how to be innovative, how to be creative as a team in a context of rapid change. And then a lot of the changes, as you well know, things like AI, are leaving people terribly confused. I don't even know what to do with it. How do you incorporate this into our thinking? Uh, many of these leaders, as well as many of their people, are quite uncertain as to what the future might hold, which is putting a damper on investment. Uh, major business decisions are being postponed. And so helping people think through their values, who they want to be, what their vision is for their company, how that informs decision making and innovation during times like these, it's it's a huge challenge out there that people are facing.

AI Anxiety And People First Decisions

Speaker 1

Absolutely. I and to echo that, I as a theologian, you and I both have formal theological training. And so as we're facing issues like AI and things like that, it's never moved so quickly as you said. I I I've been helping some business owners that, you know, with their faith background as well, think through well, how does this apply, right? Do we replace all humans with AI because it's consistent, it's able to sound human, it's able to do all these things. And what I've been trying to advise them to do is think of AI as a tool to enhance human performance. Right. So there are there are clients that I've worked with that want to replace people who probably should have been replaced anyways, right? But now they're asking the question do I replace with AI or someone else? And I say, think about it this way. Think about it as how do we, we are people-centric, uh, especially those of us of the Christian faith, is like we do for others as we would have them do for us, the golden rule. And so as we integrate technology, whether it's a spreadsheet, a calculator, or AI, help people to think and navigate that from a faith perspective. Because, you know, my 19-year-old daughter who's uh just finished her sophomore year at Texas AM, um, is asking a ton of excellent ethical questions about the use of AI. To what extent do they use it? She feels the pressure that she needs to understand it, she needs to know how to work with it because it's not going away. But also, she is classically educated in, you know, in her schooling prior to going to Texas A&M, and so doesn't want to lose the art of doing the work either.

Speaker 2

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1

And so it's that tension of helping navigate those things. And and you you said something I think very important that I've noticed too, is that people are withholding investment because they're not sure how to best properly leverage their resources to continue to grow their business.

Speaker 2

Yeah, they don't have the slightest idea of many of them, how even to use AI. They know it's a thing. They know that a lot of things are happening around them. They know that their competitors are leveraging these things to give them competitive advantages. But often these business owners themselves don't quite even know what to do with it. But I think the issue you raise about how do we deal with our people is tremendously important. I mean, what if the most important thing about our business isn't just our PL? Uh, what if it's actually how we treat people and how we serve them and how you know the experience they have of working with us? Uh and I think for many people, they see, like, for example, you may have, it may right now take five people to produce one unit of product or service. Uh, well, with AI, one person can produce one unit of product or service. And so the question immediately gets asked: well, do we even need those other four people anymore? Uh, but what if instead of five people creating one, now one can create one? That also means that five could create five. And so I think a fundamental commitment, not simply to cutting our costs and expanding our margins, but to utilizing the people that God's entrusted to our care to figure out how we can help them survive and thrive. It forces upon you an entirely different perspective about how we navigate changes like AI. If we use them to make people more productive and people more capable and to do more work, that greater productivity benefits everyone, not simply as a way of cutting our costs.

Speaker 1

That's right. You know, I mean, you think about the word processor when the computers came out. You know, both old enough to remember when you know desktop computers came out. My dad would tell me that when he was in college, they would have these computers against the wall that they would have to do a punch card in, right? And if you think just that rapid street. I remember those computers. Yeah, over the last 40, 50 years, it's been I mean, we went from having cars with uh manual steering. You know, I told my daughter the other day, um, I remember having to get up and physically change the channel. I was the remote control for my parents, me too, right? But also turned to channel three so that I can turn the Atari on that my dad was bought. Right? Uh-huh. So you had to manually do it. Then you had these little blocks that moved around and shot. And so, you know, they always say Gen X is the gap generation, but you know, we we were pre-internet, but also early enough to adopt internet. And I I see my daughter in in her age group being the same tension with AI, where you know, she knew she when I said, oh, a floppy disk, she's 19, she said, What? What's that? You know, so it's kind of like a CD-ROM, but different, right? Having to explain that. And so change is hard by and large, especially, you know, some of the clients that we've worked with that are more in the industrial side of things, they've been doing this things the same way for a long time. And I remember talking to one person that took many, many years after CNC machines came out to actually get one, right? Because he didn't trust it. And and he said, but when we got one of those things, it just greatly increased our productivity. And so what I'm trying to help people think through is I I have a friend of mine that's uh living in Malaysia now, he's from Japan. He has a PhD in AI that he got in, I think, 2005 or 2006, right? And people don't understand that artificial intelligence has been going for a while. And I always point to the little bouncy paper clip uh from Microsoft Word and then the spell check and and helping people demystify a little bit what AI is, how it's working now, and what it can do. Um, but as you work with these business owners and they're trying to navigate change, um, what are some positive surprises you've seen in these leaders that how they've been navigating

Innovation Beyond Products And Profit

Speaker 1

that? What have you been learning from them in that process?

Speaker 2

One of the exciting things is as I see them close the gap between their faith and their normal way of doing business, uh suddenly new insights come into play. Uh, new values suddenly begin to inform their decisions. And so, whereas in the past, they might have been thinking innovation strictly in terms of products and services, now they're thinking of innovation across the board in business processes, financial management, even in how they minister their people. The breadth of what they're doing now is much greater than what they were doing before. Uh, the in the current environment, especially supply chain disruption disruptions we saw during COVID, for example, uh, everybody becomes very cautious and very constrained, but because they're simply trying to stay afloat. But currently, with the pace of change and the opportunities that are coming, these business leaders are broadening the scope, broadening their vision. What can we do to serve our people better? What can we do to remain the employer of choice? What can we do to attract people? And what can we do to retrain them? Uh so there are a lot of things that people are doing now that are a bit different than what they might have done before when all they were trying to do is stay afloat.

Speaker 1

Right. Absolutely. And that that transition, I mean, we went through that, as you know, in some of my companies. And you're still asking hard questions, just the questions change. Yes. Right. And as you think through innovation, as you think through changing in culture, as you think through uh, you know, finding and keeping the best people, as a as a Christian, though those things are our faith is meant to be integrated in our work. But I think that's true uh for clients I've worked with that don't come from the same faith background, they're asking a lot of the same questions. Oh, absolutely right. And trying to figure out how to do that. And I do think there's a maturation process I've noticed in the business owners I've worked with where PL was a tight focus for a long time. But there does come a point I see, especially as they become more financially successful, they start asking different questions on okay, we have massive profit, we have these resources, we have the nice watches, the nice cars, the boat, the lake house, the beach house, the plane, whatever. But I I do see this maturation where people start asking again about purpose. Exactly. How do we start having impact with our company and do for good? And I know you've having been working for uh with with some business owners your entire time during that five years here, what are some growth trajectories you've seen as they've matured in applying these things? Because I know I have several friends that are still a part of your group and they're continuing to grow and think better thoughts. But what do you see as a progression for any business owner as they're growing, as PL stabilizes, as plenty of profit abounds? What are some stages you see business owners go through as they mature in their leadership? And what are some blind spots that you think that maybe some of our watchers today who own businesses maybe would benefit from being aware about?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think the the greatest growth that happens is it begins as personal, changes that are within them. And that only happens when people are prepared to change, prepared to grow. Uh, but as they then grow, they begin to appreciate opportunities in their business they might have overlooked before. Uh, one kind of example that you might see is people who see uh you mentioned that while we may have people of many faiths or no faiths at all, uh everyone recognized that there are certain things that even in a period of rapid change, there are things that don't change. There are things that remain permanent, things that are lasting. And I think one of the great breakthroughs for people is when they stop being so dazzled and blinded by the change that they begin to see again that there are certain very important things that aren't changing. And one of the things that isn't changing is human nature and their own human nature and the nature, the humanness of the people that they're working with. They they can begin to appreciate that that things around them may be just, they're practically dizzy from what's happening. But what is unchanging in the lives of their people becomes a kind of anchor.

Culture And The High Tech High Touch Rule

Speaker 2

Uh, you mentioned the word culture earlier on. For a while, I was associated with the Disney Institute, and Disney described defines culture in two ways. Number one, what's it like to work around here? And secondly, what is it like to do business with us? And if you understand culture in those simple ways, what is it like to work around here? And what's it like to do business with us? It kind of sharpens your focus. It gets your eyes back on the things that really matter. So one of the things I see business owners do is begin to ask fundamental questions like that. They're thinking, well, what is it like to work around here? They begin to see their people not as simply a means to some other end, but their people as being a valid end in themselves. Uh they begin to see a have a greater appreciation for the development of their people, uh, for the opportunity that they have as stewards of these lives to help people grow. And in a period of rapid change and a period of great uncertainty, this is enormously valuable to people because they're wondering about their own careers. They wonder how long is my job even going to be there for me? And if I were to lose this job, what happens next? A lot of kids coming out of college wanted the same thing. Have I have I prepared for a job that no longer exists? Well, as business owners take ownership of the and stewardship of the people that God's entrusted to their care, they begin to see that they have a developmental opportunity with people, that they can help people grow, they can help train people, and they can help people to just develop as as leaders and producers in their own right. But then also the relationships with the customers. What is it like to do business with us? Uh, you know, we might think it's more efficient to put AI between ourselves and the customer, but we've all had experience, haven't we, of getting emails that were clearly AI generated, of getting phone calls that are AI generated, seeing videos that are 100% AI generated. And that's efficient, I guess, from the standpoint of the business owner to be able to crank out the content and put it out there like that. But from the standpoint of the customer, that's not exactly high touch. You know, it's interesting. Years ago, you might remember there was a book called Megatrends, the original Megatrends. That was by like 1980 or something, maybe even before. And at that point, they recognize something. It's absolutely proven to be true, that as high tech increases, high touch needs to increase as well. That was true then, and it's true now. So I understand, all right, as the high-tech growth continues more and more and more, we have to get better and better and better at high touch with our people, with our customers, clients, uh, with even with our vendors. There are a lot of people that, and I could tell you stories about this. There was one restaurant chain I used to serve their president recently until he retired from that role. But they uh had a very, very good intentional relationship with their vendors, with a loyalty to their vendors that was almost inexplicable. And you think, well, what is the point of that? Well, first of all, it's the right thing to do to treat your vendor with that kind of dignity. But when the supply chain crisis hit, how do you suppose that vendor treated that restaurant chain? They remembered that this restaurant chain had been loyal to them, and so they were loyal to that restaurant chain in return. And so treating your vendors the same way you want to be treated yourself, not just your customers, your employees, ends up really paying off. But but you're asking really about the stages that business owners go through. I think one stage is that stage of the realizing that their own growth, their own development is the foundation of everything, which is why the work you do in coaching is so valuable and so important. But then secondly, recognize, looking outward and recognizing that they're they're people, they're vendors, they're customers, that every human being within range is also valuable and important. And investing in those relationships and that investment, that willingness to lean into those relationships really, really pays off.

Speaker 1

No, I think that's that's so wise. You know, I I've worked with a lot of business owners who nearly treat their employees more like equipment, right, than embodied souls. And so I usually try to find an opportunity to encourage them saying, you know, hey, um let's rehumanize the people we work with, regardless of their faith background. Regardless, if, you know, as a human being. Um but but with I I've also seen it with people who profess faith. And you know, as a brother, I try to say, hey, I know they're irritating, you do have recourse, you either coach them up or coach them out, but we can't treat other human beings this way or view them this way. Right? They're they're not just commodities.

CEO Loneliness And The Cost Of Imbalance

Speaker 1

And what's interesting, I found Keith, as well is that there's been a pronounced loneliness in business owners and CEOs that I've interacted with, especially since the pandemic, prior to that as well, but this isolation where they don't really have other people who understand what they're going through.

Speaker 2

Just this morning, someone was sharing that very thing with me. Yeah, and how often they see that themselves.

Speaker 1

Yes, you're right. And you know, we've we've seen that with pastor friends of ours as well. It's it's an isolated thing, but I I've noticed it pronounced in the business owners I've had that they've been very successful. And a lot of times what I've noticed is you know, these business owners have experienced a lot of professional success, but their marriages are struggling or have ended, or their children are estranged, or and they want that so badly. And I always the the men I work with, especially, I say, look, men have a tendency to gravitate towards competency.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Right? They understand how the business works, how to interact, how that works, but then you go home to more nuanced situations with a wife and children and very stage of life. And there's no we we've given all of our capacity to our work and haven't maintained any capacity with our families. And so, as you worked with these business leaders in the context of C12, um, how have you encouraged them to really move more towards a balanced perspective of how they integrate not only faith but also family and their work because there's always more

The Balance Wheel And Real Accountability

Speaker 1

work to be done.

Speaker 2

There's always more work to be done. And you know, when you step onto the football field of the marketplace and you look up at the scoreboard, you're not gonna see your wife and kids at There. The marketplace doesn't care about how much time you're spending with your family, or how much, in my case, how much time you were spending traveling internationally and just away so much. But we do need to care about that. So what we do in all of our meetings, we meet as groups and we meet individually, I meet with them individually, the members. We begin each group meeting with what we call the balance wheel. And it goes into every area of your life, you know, your walk with God, your marriage, your family, your finances, your uh rest and retreat, fitness and nutrition, biblical community. I mean, all these different areas. And it's and it's not okay that your wheel is your balance wheel is only flat on one side. No, that's actually a flat tire. That's right. That's right. And so, yeah, but it's only flat on one side, Casey. So what's the problem? Well, you know, you got a bumpy ride in your life if that's true.

Speaker 1

That's right.

Speaker 2

And so what we do for each other, and this everyone needs this, is we hold each other accountable. We say, hey, Keith, you know, you've been saying for a long time that fitness isn't good for you and nutrition's bad and you put on a lot of weight. When are you gonna do something about that? Well, the answer was January 12th, I started doing something about that. And I've been accountable to my members, and you know, they serve me too. And as a result, here it is, what, we're in mid-May, and I've lost 32 pounds since January 12th because these members aren't gonna let me get away with just relentless reports of failure in fitness and nutrition. And see, we all need that. We need a group of people that can know the truth about us and care about us anyway, uh, people we can open up with about all the different areas of life, uh, people that aren't impressed with the fact that, yeah, we closed some big deal. Well, that's great. But how's how are your kids? And when was the last time you had dinner with your family? Uh, we got so many stories, Casey. There's one man I just so admire his candor. He he told the story in another group, had a great idea of about a new business in an adjacent field that he was going to open up and so impressive, very accomplished guy. And he shared this with his C12 forum. And uh they listened, and uh there was kind of a long silence after he was done until one of them piped up and said, When was the last time you had dinner with your family? Which is why I mentioned that example a moment ago. And he said, Um, well, actually, we don't do that. And somebody else spoke up and said, Your plan's fine, you can start that business, make a ton of money, but you'll lose your family. So, what we need is people that care about all the things we care about. You know, I used to be a runner, and uh only once did I ever run in a per in a pace group. Now, if you're gonna run with a pace group or any group of people, you need to make sure you're running in the same direction, that you have the same definition of success. So I think it's very important, regardless of what your faith background is, that you have a group of people that you can be fully open with, who share your complete definition of success, who can be pleased and impressed that you accomplished this or that in your business, but who, like you, care about your family and about your marriage and about your fitness and all these other things that really truly matter. And that you have some context of accountability for those things. Because if you're waiting for the marketplace to tell you to go home to spend more time with your family, buddy, you've got a long wait.

Speaker 1

I I've been a disappointment more than once to some clients when I've said, I'm sorry, my daughter has a piano recital. I'm not going to miss that. Beautiful. And uh have walked. And, you know, I I I do count it a win for clients that we've had for years, whether it's coaching or on the marketing side or whatever, who have grown in that way because I'm I'm underimpressed just by the performance. I mean, I'm glad that they're experiencing success, but I I think uh a greater definition of success needs to be had. And um that, you know, there's an old wise man who said, Well, does it benefit a man to gain the whole world but to forfeit his soul in the process? And I I think really winning at business is that's why I'm so big on encouraging my clients to build automations. And to your point about AI, there there doesn't need to be reduction of human interaction, right? The whole thing is does it serve our client? Does it serve our ideal customer? When I call the pharmacy and need a refill, I don't care if I'm dealing with AI or an answering service because I punched some numbers, but if I need to talk to a human being during business hours, I better be able to get a hold of one.

Speaker 2

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1

And, you know, I I think there is this understanding, whether it's AI leadership or anything, is that we need other humans to interact with, and we need to be in an environment where we are understood and we're willing to understand others and experience that.

Final Advice And Finding Your People

Speaker 1

So, Keith, what would be some final advice you'd give to business owners and folks watching here today that maybe are experiencing maybe some loneliness or disorientation or you know, a need for accountability or guidelines?

Speaker 2

Yeah, so I would say that it's what we've been talking about tremendously important. If whether you're experiencing it as loneliness or disorientation, whether you're just a little uncertain about what you should do next, there's hardly a problem that you could come up with that isn't gonna be that you're you're not gonna be helped by having a group of like-minded people around you who share your values, who share your complete definition of success, and who can walk with you. Uh, and by the way, you're gonna be valuable to them too. We each need people in our lives who understand us and who like us but aren't too impressed with us, who aren't intimidated by the fact that you're the CEO or you're the boss, but will instead tell you exactly what you need to hear. If you don't have a group of people like that around you, get one. If you don't have time for a group of people like that, then make the time. If your business is so has you so busy that you can't find time for a group like that, then you're not running your business very well. You need a group of people like that. We all do. We all do. And and again, if as a coach, if you're concerned and value, all these things in your life, not just business, but marriage and family and fitness, nutrition, walk with God, everything, then I care too. But if you only care about business, I'm not your guy.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I think that's well put. And so, Keith, thanks so much for coming by today. Thanks, Gate, for chatting. I'm sure we'll chat again. And uh I look forward to having you back. Look forward to it.

Speaker 2

Thanks so much.