The Planify Podcast

Niches Get Riches: The Marketing Strategy That Actually Pays Off ft. Angela Arnold

• Planify Agency • Season 1 • Episode 11

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If your marketing feels like you're throwing ads at a wall and hoping something sticks, this episode is for you. Casey Cease sits down with Angela Arnold, Founder and Fractional CMO of Arnold Marketing, to talk about why so many small businesses struggle to turn leads into real growth, and what separates a marketing plan from an actual marketing strategy. Angela shares how she built a remote-first agency before it was common practice, why she almost had to close her doors during a year of breast cancer treatment, and how that experience forced her to build systems that did not depend on her being in the room every day. She also breaks down why she chose to niche her agency into health and wellness marketing, even though it meant turning away business for 18 months before it started paying off. If you are trying to figure out whether your business relies too heavily on you, how to pick the right niche, or how to get better leads instead of just more leads, this conversation gives you a practical, honest look at what that process actually takes.

💡 KEY TAKEAWAYS FROM THIS EPISODE:

  1. A niche works like a magnet, not a filter. It should attract the right-fit clients to you, not force you to turn away every business outside of it.
  2. Buying ads before you have a real marketing strategy usually produces more leads, not better ones. Strategy work upfront can multiply lead quality.
  3. Map out clear "who does what" swim lanes for your team before a crisis hits, not during one, so client work can keep moving if you are suddenly unavailable.
  4. Ask your best customers three simple questions: what they like about you, why they bought from you, and how they would describe you to a friend. Then act on what they tell you.
  5. Give a new niche about 18 months before judging whether it is working. Trust and referrals in an unfamiliar market build slower than paid traffic does.

🕒 CHAPTERS & TIMESTAMPS:

00:00:00 - Why Invite Other Agencies
00:02:09 - Leaving Corporate For A Remote Agency
00:03:17 - Marketing Touches The Whole Business
00:08:58 - Finding Your Unique Ability
00:12:24 - Cancer Forces Better Delegation
00:18:15 - Choosing A Health And Wellness Niche
00:23:16 - Research And Quality Beat Volume
00:28:06 - Showing The Path And Next Steps

🔗 RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

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Why Invite Other Agencies

Casey Cease

Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Planify Podcast. I'm really excited to have my friend Angela Arnold with Arnold Marketing joining me today. And you might be thinking, Casey, why do you have all these competing marketing agencies on there? My deal is this there are amazing people out there running marketing agencies that are doing things similar to what Planify is doing, much different than what Planify is doing. But ultimately, our goal is for you, the listener, to have a more dynamic framework on how to grow your business and scale. And that's not just us. And so coming from an abundance mindset, I'm thrilled to have my friend Angela Arnold join us today. We're going to talk about her story of how she went from corporate marketing into her own marketing agency, her own health battles, and how she grew as a business owner and leader during that time, how she had to rebuild her business after that. And then focusing on the fact that in the niches are riches or niches are as you know. So we're going to have a great time today with Angela. So without any more delay or rambling on by your host, let's enjoy. She is a marketing guru specializing in the health and wellness space. And we'll get into that more. But more importantly, she's a good friend and someone that really uh has a collaborating heart and has been a helpful resource for me thinking through not only just marketing in general, but also scaling and growing a business that doesn't solely rely on me. And so, Angela, why don't you take a minute and introduce yourself and share a little bit of your background?

Angela Arnold

Yeah, well, thanks, Casey, for having me on. It's always fun to talk with you about marketing and about growing businesses. So I have been in marketing the entirety of my career. I was in college when this new thing called Facebook was coming out. And so I learned how to use Facebook as a brand when other brands were just learning how to do it. And same thing with the rest of social media. That got me into positions where I learned more about the rest of marketing and marketing strategy. And as you said, in about 2019, I started my own agency. So here we are.

Casey Cease

So since you started your agency prior to the pandemic, I'm sure there's been some ups and downs along the

Leaving Corporate For A Remote Agency

Casey Cease

way.

Angela Arnold

You know, it was pretty fortuitous. I raised my hand in 2019 and said, all right, I'm going to go freelance. I'm done with this corporate thing. I was very frustrated with how slow corporate moved. Um, you just can't get anything done. It takes decisions by consensus. You know, it's just bogs you down. And I found that when I raised my hand to say, hey, I'm a, you know, freelancer, I got more work than I could handle. So I brought on people to help with the work because I'm a big believer in collaboration. And then I got more work and more people. And so it became an agency. But I was, I was really lucky because I started just before COVID, but remote first. And that was always my vision. And I also saw the rise of the gig economy. I said, there are people who don't want to work full-time, whether they can't for health reasons, they have a family, whatever it is. So why don't I build an agency that can be flexible up or down? Because I had been in traditional agencies where you get a huge new client, you staff up, you lose the client, you lay those people off. I wanted to avoid that pain and that roller coaster of the growth contraction cycle, or at least mitigate it somewhat.

Marketing Touches The Whole Business

Casey Cease

So, what were some of the biggest surprises of moving from corporate marketing gigs to actually owning your own agency?

Angela Arnold

I think the biggest surprise to me is, and you understand this. When you're working, let's say, on a marketing strategy and a marketing plan, it is not just about marketing. It is about the entirety of the business. How does the business operate? How do they fulfill their product or service? How good is that product or service? What is their cash flow like? What's the owner's mindset? How are the rest of their financials? All of these things really matter. Marketing is just one lever of growth. And so to be as involved with my clients' businesses was a big surprise, but also a big joy because you find areas that you can improve and tweak and um see like, oh, if you fix this, then this becomes much easier.

Casey Cease

Absolutely. I I remember when it clicked for me that I'm not just doing marketing for people, right? That's what they bring me in for. Yes. Right.

Angela Arnold

Generating Can you do Google Ads, Casey?

Casey Cease

And I do Google ads, right? Commoditize, yes. Unfortunately, I can. Um, but but more importantly, it was really thinking through how do we help them maximize those that they reach? Yeah. Right. And the biggest challenge I found was on the smaller businesses that had largely grown through organic means, looking to make that leap into paid traffic, right? Or who had a lot of success on Google back in 2008, 2010, when Google was much easier and less competition, helping move them from just going from that way. You said something interesting working on a marketing strategy. And I know that the way you strategize with the businesses you work with, you have a process you take them through. What are some key components you found that are most helpful when a company's thinking about putting together a marketing strategy?

Angela Arnold

You know this as well as I do. It's very difficult when you're in a business to stop and take a step back and think outside of your day-to-day. It's so hard to run a business and to be in a business that you forget the context that you're in. You forget things like even speaking to your best customers. I have clients who make tens of millions in revenue, who, when I ask, when's the last time you spoke to some of your best customers? They go, Oh, it's been a while. Um, and it's just understanding those fundamentals of what is it that makes your business special? Because everybody has that inside and their internal team. They're just not very good at articulating it. You know, and if you can pull that out of them and make sure that it actually is unique to the market. You've seen this over and over in a business where they say, here's what makes us special. But so does all of their competitors say the exact same thing. So, how do you actually differentiate in the market? How do you get them to fully come into what it is that makes them unique, why people would buy from them, why they would stay with them? Getting that articulated is the first step. Then the next one is how do you approach the market? To your point, Google Ads, it's a commodity. Everybody can do Google Ads, everybody can do meta-ads. How do you really reach the people you're trying to reach in a way that's meaningful to them and mapping out that journey and truly deeply understanding your best customers? The thing about a marketing strategy is it's hard to do because it takes time away from the day-to-day busy work. I've had so many clients, you have too, where they'll call you and say, We want to launch ads. You say, Well, why don't we think about what these ads are saying, who they're reaching, why we're even putting them out in the first place? Can we service all these new customers that we get? And they go, sure, but I don't want to take time to think about that. I just want ads out.

Casey Cease

Give me leads.

Angela Arnold

Give me leads. I can give you leads, but I can give you 15 times better, more qualified leads if we take the time to do that planning.

Casey Cease

Yeah. The hey, can you buy ads for me?

Angela Arnold

Yeah.

Casey Cease

Um I I I literally had someone stop me recently at an event saying, Hey, will you buy ads for us? And I said, or can you buy ads for us? I was like, I can, I don't know if I will. And they looked at me crazy and I was like, the reality is, I we can run leads, but who's your ideal client? And are they even on the platform that you want to reach them in? Yep. And what's your sales process? Because I I can't, I mean, I'm sure you've had clients like this that you bring them a lot of leads, they say they're bad leads. And I was I was literally talking to one one time, and I can't remember if it was a roof or I won't say what he was, but doing a home service, I'm like, okay, this is a bad lead. I'm like, okay, do they have the house? Yes. Do they own the house? Yes. Do they live in your geography? Yes. Do they have the problem you have? Yes. What makes them bad? Well, they said no. I said, okay. Maybe I'll I'll give occasionally they're maybe a bad lead, right? They they're a you know, tire kicker or something like that. But they couldn't tell me why they were bad, other than, well, they don't have they they said no. I said, well, that sounds like a sales problem, not a marketing issue. And and one of the things we've tried to do is develop marketing strategies that include the sales process as a part of the marketing process, partly to help the company understand how integrated every piece is, because your fulfillment of the service or product is communicating something you believe about your client or about your own business. And I think people miss that a lot. And so I know over the years you've you're not just a marketer, you're a business owner, right? You are naturally wired not only to help people with that process, but you're a gifted integrator as well on actually seeing processes through. And so, how has your process of marketing and running a business evolved over the last several years?

Finding Your Unique Ability

Angela Arnold

Great question. The thing that took me a very long time to understand. Um, and I think a lot of people uh struggle with what is their unique ability in strategic coach terms. What is it that they are truly excellent at? And they can do almost like breathing. And for a long time, I'm a very type A person. I wanted to be great at everything. The answer is you're not great at everything. What are the things that you're very excellent at and you can focus on? For you, you obviously have a gift for helping a business really understand the mechanics of what is working, what's not working, fixing it. And especially with that eye, as you said, the handoff between marketing and sales is so critical and they really don't understand things like that. I think the ability that I've learned and really leaned into over the last few years is helping the visionary who they know where they want to go. They see that tenure vision of this is what we could do, this is what we can be great at, this is how we can change markets. They struggle translating that to action. Over and over, I found myself asking entrepreneurs and founders, what are the next three steps? And almost none of them could answer that question. Because they have the vision does not mean they can translate that into an actual plan and reality. And so that was my real unique gift. And discovering that has been very powerful in that I can let the visionary be the visionary. And they're gonna come up with new ideas, new angles, new shiny objects every single day. What I can do is help them prioritize what's going to be the most effective fastest, and how do we get it done? That's what I'm really gifted at and what I love doing, because then that rubber meets the road and it really starts seeing traction. Instead, you've seen some entrepreneurs, they just spin in 15 different directions at once. We've tried everything, we've thrown spaghetti at the wall without seeing any real measurable progress.

Casey Cease

Well, and I've learned, I mean, this podcast that we're watching now was a relaunch of a former podcast I had. And I had gone with an outsourced, you know, production company that does podcasting. And basically they had to take my vision and squeeze it into their process. And so this time, Angelo, who's my director of operations, I went to him and said, I really would like to get the podcast going again. And he was able to break it down in pieces, leverage our team, and then find the solutions. Like he had a relationship with an editor who's been editing our podcast, which is way better uh production quality than our last time, but they began allowing me to share a vision and give examples of what it would look like it was done well. And here we are today. This is an example of where we're headed. So you wired differently than I am in some ways, definitely as an integrator. And that's why you're one of my spirit animals, because I'm like, you know, I can have a conversation with you. You're like, okay, that's great. What are the next steps? And really pull that out. Um, over the years, you've gone through some things, some significant health challenges that really tested the business and made sure it was actually a business. You didn't just own a job. So I know we talked about it ahead of time with your permission, but uh, because I think a lot of our listeners um can relate with that. So why don't you share a little bit about that season of your life and what you had to do as a business owner to make it through it and what you learned and uh how that's changed how you do business today.

Cancer Forces Better Delegation

Casey Cease

I think everybody watching and listening can probably relate to life, doesn't always go the way you plan. Yes.

Angela Arnold

Again, I'm a type A person. I like having a plan. I like knowing what's coming up, and that's just not always the case uh with things. So in late 2022, I was diagnosed with breast cancer, and I went through about a year of surgeries and treatments to deal with that. And at the time, my business was probably about 750,000 in revenue. So very small company, very small business. And I had to figure out how this business keep running and we still serve our clients in a good way while I'm out for eight weeks for a surgery, right? Or why I can't work maybe 50% of the day. Um, and I'm just not at my full capacity. And it was a really interesting exercise in delegation in having very clearly defined swim lanes of who is going to handle what. I mean, we broke it down in a table that even said, who's reading my emails, who takes the information from the client and passes it to the team that's working on it? All of these things we mapped out and gamed out before my first surgery to say, how is the work going to get done? We should have done that from the beginning. Any good operations person, Angela, would have had us doing it from day one. But it took an outside force for me to think differently about how I delegate and how work can get done without me being at the center of it. So it's kind of a forcing function, really, of how do we do this and how do we become a more mature business that to your point just doesn't rely on the owner alone. I was able to be in and out of the business, as I said, for about a year. And I can't had a business to come back to. That's a miracle. It is. A lot of people would not have had that. And I'm I'm so grateful to the team and my clients. You know, we even had flows where my assistant would check in with me, I think it was at like 3 p.m. every day. She would give me a little text with here's what's going on, here's any questions, you know, that you need to answer, here's here's any, you know, strategy thoughts that we need your input on. But everything was all funneled to her. And then she was my main point of contact. So I didn't feel like I had to be checking email or Slack or, you know, being on client calls, whatever. We we had a process for how we dealt with that. But it was really hard, Casey. I mean, truly, I I came back, I had a business, but natural degradation occurs, right? And so we lost clients over time. I hadn't been doing sales for a year. And I remember it was November the following year after I kind of came back full-time to work when I literally laid on the floor and cried because I thought I would have to shut the business down. I was looking at the numbers and going, I can't make these numbers work anymore. And I was in a um program at the time called EO Accelerator. So entrepreneurs organization has an accelerator program. And my coach and some of the other business owners there really helped me sit and think through the math of if I do X, Y, and Z and make some really hard, awful calls, the business can survive. And it did. But I couldn't have gotten through that without having the plan and process, having a team that could support me, and then having other business owners in the room. I think something that's so important in the people that you and I choose to work with is that they don't see us as vendors. Right. They see us as partners because having another person who understands what it's like to run a business makes a difference. This roller coaster is hard. You know, it really sucks. And it's very valuable to have other people to lean on when times get tough because they will.

Casey Cease

No, absolutely. And I mean, that's why I bring my marketing friends on here and say, like, hey, they might be a better fit, go with them. And so I wanted to hear a little bit about, and thank you for sharing that vulnerable part of your story. You shared it with me privately, and so I know the impact. And and the fact is, every business owner has life happen. Every business owner goes through trials, every business owner has that moment where they're literally laying on the floor and crying or metaphorically crying inside, but wondering that desperation. I only know of one business owner that has just basically had a rocket trajectory where it seems like everything he tried has absolutely worked at the right time in the right way. Um, and no one likes him. No, but but ultimately it's uh no, I mean, but he has personal, you know, health issues at home and different like so his life still isn't in that place, and he still struggles with it and he's still hard. He was a coaching client of mine many years ago, and and it was yes, things are going well, but it wasn't easy. And I think that's the hard thing is some business owners we know make things look very easy, right? Or there may be a stage in their career where they have done the hard work of creating a self-managing business or having the right team in place where it just looks easy. But we're here to tell you it doesn't matter, you can have the best marketing team, sales team, ops team, everything else. Life happens or the world shuts down or something goes wrong. And so, really, the perseverance and the grit and the community around you of being able to have other people to lean on. Uh, Angela's one of my friends that I call when marketing's not going well and saying, like, I don't know what to do here. Uh, my friend Megan Shields, who's who's been on the podcast, will be like, What did Meta just do? Oh my gosh, like these leads are dying. And because we can tell our clients all day long, well, meta changed an algorithm. There, all they translate that to is you're failing, right?

Angela Arnold

Where's my results? Where's my leads?

Casey Cease

At the end of the day. And even if you're not a vendor, there's still that feeling of what the heck, right? You're my best friend when everything's going well. And then when it's not going well, it goes there. And

Choosing A Health And Wellness Niche

Angela Arnold

so over the last few years, you've really, we're in Texas, I say niche, but we can say niche, niche down into health and wellness. Talk about that that journey and where you kind of landed there and what you're able to do now in that space. Because you you have clients outside of that, but really your specialty is coming into organization. So give give a little bit of background on how you got there. I have heard many times from many people, niches get riches. Yeah. I fought against it for a long time because again, I want to think I'm great at everything. And when you become a trusted partner with a client, they ask you, hey, can you take a look at this? Can you help us with that? And for a while in the early stages of the business, my answer was yes. That was a mistake. I have since learned to pull in people like yourself when there's an aspect that is not our core expertise. So it wasn't just niching down in terms of what we do, um, focusing really heavily on our core competencies did help a lot. And I think understanding that for any business is really key. Um, there is a reason that Walmart is just Walmart. They do not try to get into other business lines because they know what they do and they can do it well. And the second part of this is when I kept hearing friends, other business owners say the once you niche, it's scary, but it pays off in about 18 months. You have to really hold on for about 18 months. Um, I had just come back from my cancer journey, and I knew I needed to make a change in the business because there was very little business left. So it was a perfect time to think through what we are great at and who we can be great at it for. So I did an analysis of all our former clients and I organized them into industries. And then we also ranked them on how much did we enjoy the work? Because as you know, some of the work is more enjoyable in some clients than in others. Um, did we make money and did we make them money? Those were our criteria. So when we sorted through the clients and who we'd worked with, the winners were financial services, tech startups, and health and wellness. Well, financial services is a very heavily regulated industry. It moves very slowly. We said probably not that one. It would have been the safe bet. There's great money in it, they're very stable. And the second is tech startups, they're the opposite. They're completely volatile, they're all over the place, at the whims of investors. You're still struggling to find that product market fit. And that's the absolute hardest place, in my opinion, in most businesses. And so health and wellness was the remainder one. And I had just gone through my own journey with cancer and I had seen the healthcare system close up. I had started to, you know, find out, oh, there are things I can do to better my health, to better my own immunity that, you know, aren't like crystal chakras, things like that, actual things studied scientifically. And at the same time, I was starting to see market trends toward consumer health and wellness because there has been a pretty broad backlash against traditional health care, saying it is very reactive, it is sick care, not health care, and it's slow. It doesn't catch things until they are actually a problem. Instead of preventing those problems in the first place, or at least mitigating some of it. So I said, all right, we're all in on health and wellness. I also saw macroeconomically all these, all this funding, you know, and money going into the consumer health and wellness space. But it really took about 18 months before people started paying attention and we started getting a reputation and um momentum. Behind this niche. And that was a really scary, hard 18 months because we had some prospects walk away. They said, Oh, your website all says health and wellness. Do you know how to serve us? Like, well, we do. Some of the best advice that I got from a friend who owns a very successful marketing agency is he said, a niche is a magnet, not a filter. You want to attract the businesses that are in that niche. So health and wellness is our primary customer. But we don't reject other industries if we can help them. We just don't actively seek them out. But I'm telling you, as soon as we niched down and really made it past that 18-month mark, I have companies coming to me. I went to a health and wellness conference in February where I had, I think it was seven booked meetings on my calendar before I walked into the conference of people seeking me out because they saw on my profile that we do performance marketing for health and wellness. So it is very scary to plant a flag. And it is scary to say, I may be turning away people who aren't a fit, but it's been so much better and easier. The sales cycles are easier. We're getting to know this industry in a more deeper, more complex way. And so we can get that much better results for our clients, too.

Research And Quality Beat Volume

Casey Cease

So what have you noticed changing in marketing besides algorithms and things like that? But as as you're going in, um, some things remain the same. People want products and services and you know, all that. But what what are you noticing? Any major changes that you feel like you've had to adapt to over the last couple of years? Just in business in general, or I mean, obviously you have AI and all that, but but in general, as you're thinking through approaching people and marketing.

Angela Arnold

I think the rise of digital has been a boon in many ways, but it's also led to this disconnection between people. The fact that you and I are here recording this podcast together, I was very clear when you asked me to be on the podcast, you said, Oh, we can do it over Zoom. I don't want to do it over Zoom. There's something so much more real about doing things in person, seeing people face to face, that I think businesses forget that. So, so what's changed in marketing is I think people have really deprioritized market research and thoughtfulness. So, as I said earlier, even just interviewing your five best customers. What do you like about us? Why did you buy from us? How would you describe us to a friend? Ask those three questions, you will get gold that you can use everywhere else. It doesn't take that long. And then ask them, what's one thing we could do better? Don't give them an option of how can we do better, yes or no? That's one thing. How could we do better? Right. And and they will tell you, and those are the people you want to listen to. So market research is one. I think the other one is a lot of businesses get very discouraged by numbers now, meaning our email list is small. We don't have that many followers on social media. Our website only gets, you know, 500 hits a month. But if you are in a room with 500 people, that's a lot of people. It only takes one person to change the trajectory of your business or of your life, even. So discounting, oh, we only have X many followers, or oh, we we only have this much momentum. To me, it's about the quality, not the quantity of those connections. But it's people have just forgotten that in this digital age.

Casey Cease

No, I I think everyone's so obsessed with volume, right? That they're not asking the question of quality when really the outcome they want is it's not volume of lead, it's quality of lead. Right. And then, you know, one of the things I have to explain over and over again is cost of acquisition. What is a client worth to you? And when people ask those questions, they're like, I don't know. I mean, they spend 700 bucks. Okay, well, how many times? Oh, well, maybe three times a year. So 2100. How many years do they usually stay with you? Well, probably forever. Well, we're not gonna say forever. So five, yeah, on average, five years. Okay, 2100 times five is $10,500. So what's 10% of that? $1,050. So really you can acquire that customer for $1,050 and really still make good money. And then if you get one referral from them that does business with you, the cost of acquisition just dropped to $525. Right. And helping people see the I I call it calculus, never took calculus. I was able to dodge that one, but uh with dyslexia, that would have been fun. But um, but just helping people understand the value of the right client. Like you said, it only takes one client to change your trajectory. I remember I was transitioning out of a uh, you know, uh a ministry position into business, and somebody came to me and said, you know, what what would you charge to come one day a week to my business and help me make it better? And I was like, I just threw a number. I was like, I was like 12 grand. And he's like, done, when can you start? I was like, what? He's like, oh, you're gonna make me way more money than that. And so I was like, I undercharge, dang it, you know. But it's that moment, but it just in that instant, you're able to then, or maybe even 10 grand, whatever, it was a lot of money for me at the time. But all of a sudden, the value, they were a value buyer. And having someone wired like me to be on site with them for a day to solve problems and work on issues for them was instantaneous. And since that time, I've been able to charge substantially more than that. But but I always tell people I joke and I say, I charge thousands and you make millions. So really, uh, you're you're definitely winning on this on this deal. Um, but but you're absolutely right when you when you're going after a niche, I'll say it the right way. I like niches get riches because it rhymes, niches get riches, not as good. Not as good. So we'll say niche. Um but really focusing on that trajectory, and you're wired to focus and lock in. Your type A, you, uh, your attention to detail, but your statement on market research, I think, is is fascinating because what's one piece of feedback you got from your ideal client that said you could do better for my agency? Yeah.

Showing The Path And Next Steps

Angela Arnold

Is helping them understand the path.

Casey Cease

Yeah.

Angela Arnold

To me, I see all of the pieces of how they need to move from market research to auditing what they're doing, to building that marketing strategy, to making a plan, to going to market, to reporting, to optimizing on that plan. They didn't understand the path. And of course not. Not everybody's a marketer. And so that was a big learning tool. So, what did you do?

Casey Cease

Did you do something?

Angela Arnold

We literally have a chart that says here's the stages, and then we have a you are here, and then we move it along throughout the project just so they can see and understand what's coming up and what's so what I'm hearing you say is you not only ask for the feedback, but then you take action on the feedback that your ideal client gives you. Correct.

Casey Cease

So we did something similar with our publishing company where they said, I mean, basically we come in and we give you a manuscript and you slap a cover on it and you format it differently, you throw it in there. And so I was like, yeah, that that's not very valuable, is it? Right? It's a it's a couple contractors here or there. I said, Well, it's actually a 107-step process from start to finish uh in our at the time in our SOP. And so we made an infographic. It's still on lucidbooks.com front slash uh our process, our hyphen process. And we had an infographic made of the general stages, and just that printout was able for people to say, like, oh, you guys actually have to put a lot of work in. Yeah, and there's no guarantee it's gonna sell, right? Yeah, I mean, you know, people come in and think my book's the best book. Well, over one and a half million new titles come out a year, right? And very, very few sell more than 5,000 copies, right? And so it's it's it's a challenge on that front. So last question for you, Angela, is as you're moving forward, you said you love to collaborate and move forward that way. Where do you see your agency going in the health and wellness space in the next three to five years?

Angela Arnold

I am viewing our future more in a hub and spoke model.

Casey Cease

Okay.

Angela Arnold

Meaning we can provide the industry expertise, we can provide the overall strategy, but we do not need to be the ones to implement every piece of it. Can we bring in a partner to help on the business operation side, for example, or that sales side, for example? Can we have a partner? We do have many partners who do PR. That's not something we do. That's not something I'm interested in. But in building partnerships with trusted vendors in this industry specifically, then a business can come to us and say, here is what we need. Well, realistically, they say, here's what we think we need. Then we discover what they actually need, and we can pull in the best right fit people for every piece of their new future, right? And their new market that they're going after.

Casey Cease

That's not even edited, folks. That's that's why you need to work with Angela. So, Angela, where can people connect with you online and find you?

Angela Arnold

Ironically, I am one of the worst people about social media.

Casey Cease

Me too.

Angela Arnold

Uh, I spent way too much time in it for other companies. And so I got kind of burned out. However, I do actually like LinkedIn. I think it's fun. I post things that are, you know, personal. Here's what I'm reading, here's what I'm thinking about. So LinkedIn's probably the best place uh to find me and connect with me.

Casey Cease

What's your website for people to come check out if they're in the health and wellness space or want to work with you and give you a little money so they can make a ton of money?

Angela Arnold

That is correct. Give me a few thousand so you can make millions. That is correct. Uh they can go to arnoldmarketing.com. We do have an insights section that, again, I'm pretty old school. I still write blogs. I still sit down and think about articles of what would be useful to someone. I don't want to put out information and noise just for noise's sake. There's enough bull stuff out there.

Casey Cease

There's a lot of bull stuff out there.

Angela Arnold

There's a lot of bold stuff out there. And so I like to, if I'm gonna say something, it needs to be useful and valuable to people. So if they can go to the insights section of our website, we do have playbooks and and thoughts, and here's where the industry's going. So I always try to put that out there for people.

Casey Cease

Well, you're one of the finest marketers I know. It's a joy to call you friend and collaborator, and I'm sure we'll have you on this show again.

Angela Arnold

Thanks, Casey.